From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Feb 8 18:25:50 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA05433 for ; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:25:50 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id SAA20787 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:26:18 -0600 Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:26:18 -0600 Message-Id: <199802090026.SAA20787@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #615 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, February 8 1998 Volume 01 : Number 615 In this digest: Re: IN> The Death of Yves Re: IN> The Death of Yves Re: IN> The Death of Yves Re: IN> Supplement wants Re: IN> The Death of Yves IN> Innocence Attunements (was Re: The Death of Yves) Re: IN> The Death of Yves Re: IN> Lilim and Reproduction Re: IN> Lilim and Reproduction Re: IN> The Death of Yves Re: IN> The Death of Yves Re: IN> The Death of Yves Re: IN> Innocence Attunements (was Re: The Death of Yves) IN> Morden Digest #1 (current through v1 #614) IN> [B5 SPOILERS] General thoughts Re: IN> The Death of Yves Re: IN> The Death of Yves Re: IN> [B5 SPOILERS] General thoughts Re: IN> The Death of Yves ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 17:29:54 -0600 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> The Death of Yves Casca, I bow to the master. [kiss-your-knees deep bow]. A most excellent and moving story. Many, many thanks for sharing it with us. tom timberlake ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 18:56:42 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> The Death of Yves On Sat, 7 Feb 1998, tom timberlake wrote: > Casca, I bow to the master. [kiss-your-knees deep bow]. A most excellent > and moving story. Many, many thanks for sharing it with us. I wish I could take credit for it...one of my players wrote it, and half of it was his own invention. The game session ended with Blanding taking Gabriel into herself and the Mercurian leading the Host in song. The rest the player, Ryan, made up to show how his character dealt with what happened. Needless to say, I was so impressed that I waved my GM wand and said It Was So. Now things get interesting....the most powerful Archangel dead, the Destiny of Heaven uncertain. There will be a LOT of shake-ups in the Celestial heirarchy on both sides. *evil GM grin* - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 18:14:57 -0600 From: tom timberlake Subject: Re: IN> The Death of Yves Casca wrote: > > On Sat, 7 Feb 1998, tom timberlake wrote: > > > Casca, I bow to the master. [kiss-your-knees deep bow]. A most excellent > > and moving story. Many, many thanks for sharing it with us. > > I wish I could take credit for it...one of my players wrote it, and half > of it was his own invention. The game session ended with Blanding taking > Gabriel into herself and the Mercurian leading the Host in song. The rest > the player, Ryan, made up to show how his character dealt with what > happened. You still get credit for passing it on to the list; Kudos to Ryan for his authorship. > > Needless to say, I was so impressed that I waved my GM wand and said It > Was So. > > Now things get interesting....the most powerful Archangel dead, Oh? And how does the proud [remember the Inquisition?] Michael feel about your demoting him to a second-stringer? *g* the > Destiny of Heaven uncertain. There will be a LOT of shake-ups in the > Celestial heirarchy on both sides. > > *evil GM grin* I'm familiar with that grin, my Werewolf players fear it, 'cause it usually means that things are about to get *seriously* strange, which is sometimes synonymous with dangerous. > > -- Casca, Seraph of Archives > (bertishg@db.erau.edu) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 00:36:59 +0000 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> Supplement wants Steve Jessop writes > And don't associate IN with the bad >old days, when you could roll up a dungeon and run through it without >anyone having to _think_ at any point. > Heck, I thought that they were the *good* old days :) > players can spot a random event, or even worse a >random NPC, a mile off. The result is loss of interest, and a patchwork >campaign. > Hmmm, if you're seen to roll the dice, shuffle papers, and *then* tell the players, then yes. But if you use 'wandering monster' tables for inspiration before the game session takes place, If your random monsters and places and events have 'character', then it just looks to the players as if everything was *meant* to happen that way, IMHO. That's what I was getting at really, just some way of getting over the occasional bout of writer's block. Anyhow, I digress, I can go for the capsulated plot approach ( assuming that I understand you correctly ). I just love anything that complicates things for my players, and here are some humble ideas. If anybody has anything like this that they're prepared to pass on then please feel free to mail them to me! At the moment, I'm running a version of 'No Dinero' from H&H, and its going into its sixth or seventh session now, which is not bad when our sessions tend to be about eight hours long. All due to nonsense like this... 1) A cherub in a law enforcement role is assigned to protect a doctor receiving death threats. The doctor is *a good man* yet he is being criticised/threatened for his stand on abortion. He supports the woman's right of freedom of choice. Where does the cherub stand on this? 2) A disturbance in the Symphony leads the characters ( angels or SoGs ) to the scene of an accident. A small child has been hit and killed by a customised 'muscle car' which the PCs may recognize as an infernal, corporeal artifact. The driver is dazed and visibly shaken. He is taken into custody and later released on bail. Do the PCs go in both guns blazing? He's actually a mundane, but the car belongs to a demon who got sent packing back to hell sometime ago, and this guy somehow acquired it. The car itself has a 'cunning' intelligence ( and dodgy brakes ) but is nothing exceptional. The demon nevertheless might have friends looking for it, or maybe he has another vessel now and is back for it himself? 3) A top model plummets to her death from her high rise condo in a similarly noisy way. Recently she has been promoting the wearing of fur on the catwalks. Did she anger a Malakite of Jordi, or had she upset her master, the Demon of Extinction, in some way? Maybe neither, but she was somehow connected with the Demon of Anorexia, and the fur bit was a red herring? 4) In the lobby to City Hall/ A Famous Skyscraper/ Police Plaza, etc, a perceptive PC spots curious markings on the floor. They are the remains of a mostly erased pentagram... etc, - -- Jules - Demon of Urban(e) Myths jules@bigjules.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 20:06:40 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> The Death of Yves On Sat, 7 Feb 1998, tom timberlake wrote: > You still get credit for passing it on to the list; Kudos to Ryan for > his authorship. If you'd like to really make his day, send some complimentary email to rothr@db.erau.edu. > > Now things get interesting....the most powerful Archangel dead, > > Oh? And how does the proud [remember the Inquisition?] Michael feel > about your demoting him to a second-stringer? *g* Probably a bit miffed, which explains why he didn't get along well with Gabriel. That, and the fact that Gabe had this annoying habit of smiling knowingly as if he knew everything.... > I'm familiar with that grin, my Werewolf players fear it, 'cause it > usually means that things are about to get *seriously* strange, which is > sometimes synonymous with dangerous. The neatest thing about it, I think, is that it gives me an opportunity to introduce all those new Archangels. With a sudden power vacuum in Heaven, several new AAs will be appointed to help fill it. Speaking of new AAs, I have a request to the list at large. I've been looking at Christopher, and I think his Word is just a little -too- specific to deserve AA status. But I like the concept of an AA who takes an interest in children, and now that Destiny is no longer an AA... I've decided that, in my game, Christopher is the Archangel of Innocence. His Word still has a heavy focus upon Children, but also deals with such things as Virtue. Sort of a like a less militant Purity. The problem is that I'm having a difficult time coming up with Servitor and Choir attunements for the Word of Innocence. If anyone on this list (Beth? Neel? Em? Jo? Earl?) could throw out some ideas, I'd be most grateful. - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 03:52:45 +0000 (GMT) From: Steve Jessop Subject: IN> Innocence Attunements (was Re: The Death of Yves) On Sat, 7 Feb 1998, Casca wrote: > If anyone on this list (Beth? Neel? Em? Jo? Earl?) could throw out some > ideas, I'd be most grateful. Warnings: Those who play Dark IN backwards under the full moon in a temple to Set, or who are otherwise prone to vomiting, may not like these, but should read on and discover how lovely and wonderful the world really is. No, really. Well, innocent children think so, and that's what we're talking about, no? The descriptions include the noun 'innocent', which is defined basically to be a person under Christopher's Word. Thus it depends slightly on a more extensive description of Chris. These attunements are fairly powerful, because that is the way I run my game. Tone them down as appropriate to yours. The Cherub, Malakite, and Kyriotate attunements are resonance-specific, as is the second part of the Mercurian attunement. Seraphim - -------- A Seraph of Innocence who hears a person describing an action that they have taken, or intend to take, will immediately know whether there are hidden malicious or manipulative motives behind the action. On a successful Perception roll, minus the speaker's Will, he can determine what they are, to an extent determined by the check digit. Cherubim - -------- When a Cherub of Innocence attunes to a subject, he immediately knows what the major influences on that subject are that are likely to rob it of innocence. Whenever he learns the 'general condition' of the subject by his resonance, this information is updated. Ofanim - ------ The Ofanim of Innocence extend the exuberance and vitality of youth to those around them. Humans in their company tire only half as quickly as usual, can run as if their Agility were two higher than it actually is, [and take no damage if they trip and fall :-) ]. They are also less likely to give up hope on a project which genuinely inspires them (+1 Will if a roll is ever required.) Elohim - ------ An Elohite of Innocence can objectively enter the entirely subjective world of a True Innocent (almost exclusively very young children). Anything that person naturally believes that the angel can do becomes a possibility, for as long as the two stay together. GMs should be careful to avoid including anything told to the innocent with this attunement in mind. Example: Elohite says to a young child: 'I am an angel'. Child says: 'Angewth can gwow wingth, and fly. Will you take me for a wide?' Angel invokes attunement, gains Numinous Corpus: Wingth, and off they go. It is dissonant for the bearer of this attunement to intentionally use it for his own benefit. [This is only suitable for a semi-mystical 'wonder' campaign, but I almost fell off my chair when I had the idea, so I had to suggest it. Awesomely powerful if there is an 'innocent' character whose player is less so. Otherwise, the GM has complete control of the power level, and should have no guilt about limiting it mercilessly. In general, children do NOT think that angels 'can whup demon's asses dead easy', although 'protect me from the monsters' is a possibility, and might gain the angel one automatic success at a song of shielding or celestial motion.] [It occurs that this might be more appropriate as a distinction.] Malakim - ------- A Malakite of Innocence who successfully makes a resonance roll can determine to what degree the subject is an 'innocent', as well as the normal information gained. This allows them to identify demons of any sort on a check digit of 6, with the exception of the Habbalah. One oath of every Malakim of Innocence is to destroy those who threaten innocence wherever they encounter them. [Unless this is already Christopher's dissonance condition. How non-militant did you say?] Kyriotates - ---------- Kyriotates of Innocence can add their Celestial Forces to any attempt to possess the vessel of a person or creature threatening an 'innocent'. This ability also allows them, with a Will contest, to possess the vessel of a Celestial or Ethereal spirit threatening an innocent, forcing its owner into Celestial form. It is not dissonant for such a demonic vessel to be damaged or destroyed while in their 'care'. The Kyriotates of Innocence are the angels who most despise the Shedim: they can attempt to replace any Shedite possessing any host, but do not add their Celestial Forces unless the host was an innocent before the Shedite possession. Mercurians - ---------- A Mercurian of Innocence will be automatically trusted and liked by any innocent, provide that that they neither do, nor intend, any harm. A successful resonance roll also always reveals a subject's general feelings about children in particular, and the child-like innocent in general, along with details about the subject's current and past relationships with children. The depth of information depends on the check digit. Servitor Attunements - -------- ----------- Righteous Indignation (Based on Laurence's Blade Blessing, from NM) - --------- ----------- When the bearer of this attunement observes, or learns of, a betrayal or corruption of innocence, they can activate this attunement for 2 essence. For one encounter with the guilty party, all of the angel's attacks are at +2 power, including by magical means, and celestial combat. The encounter affected is the current one if the crime is directly observed, or the next one if indirectly heard about. They can also automatically follow the guilty party if they leave the Corporeal plane. Inspire Pure Motives - ------- ---- ------- When a subject is only avoiding doing what they know to be the right thing due to selfish considerations (with the exception of valid self preservation, where valid means not including Malakim), use of this attunement allows an angel to persuade them to follow their conscience. A truly selfish subject can attempt a Will roll to resist. The use of this attunement must always be accompanied by appropriate persuasion (i.e. the player should make some noise beyond 'Go on. You know it makes sense.' - ----- Steve. Former Impudite of Kobal, apparently now redeemed as Mercurian of Lovely Fluffy Things. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 23:05:41 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> The Death of Yves > > >Considering that I killed Yves last game session, they're closer to being > > >in shock right now. ("Didn't think I'd whack a major Archangel, now did > > >you?") > > > > Ooooh, you gotta tell us more about this. > > I think, instead, that I will let one of my players do the telling. > I must have done something right when telling the story, for I have > recieved well over 100 Kb of replies from my players. Wow. I'd like to lurk, if I may. Hell, I'd like to play, but it doesn't look like you're likely to have players loose interest anytime soon. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@mci2000.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 23:23:05 -0500 From: "Ehrbar" Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and Reproduction >Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 16:02:34 -0500 >From: Elizabeth McCoy >(I'm not entirely >happy with the reproduction section, myself. It's good, it >works, but I had an entirely different model in my head, so >I'm probably always going to be a little grumpy about it. ) Are we going to let Beth give that in a throwaway line without actually explaining what her model is? :-) Steve, Calabim Count of Paperback Books in service to Haagenti. (Thank Lucifer for Barnes & Noble.) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 19:46:36 From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and Reproduction >Archbeth Commented >Yeah. I suppose that the addition of pure Forces can work... >I wouldn't let PCs *count* on it, though. (I'm not entirely >happy with the reproduction section, myself. It's good, it >works, but I had an entirely different model in my head, so >I'm probably always going to be a little grumpy about it. ) Throw my 2c in with you on that, whether as LE or GM or just list commentator :) . It makes one less thing that divides Angels from Humans. Angel creation by Archangels is one thing, but any two angels just getting it together and producing offspring, especially if the results are in any way predictible just doesn't sit well with me. Of course this is without benefit of having a copy of the APG to read yet, so maybe it will feel less odd when I have seen the whole argument, rather than just the idea. Thanking you for your indulgence. Regards, Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au What does the Lord require of you, but to do justice and to love kindness and to walk humbly with your God ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 10:25:24 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> The Death of Yves On Sat, 7 Feb 1998, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: > I'd like to lurk, if I may. Hell, I'd like to play, but it doesn't > look like you're likely to have players loose interest anytime soon. Lurking would be a bit difficult, seeing as how this is a tabletop game. But when I get good stuff like this, I'll be sure to post it here (with the author's permission, of course.) As for players, I'm maxed out at 7. (Insane, I know.) The roster: Dr. Erike Van Lauwenbrecht, Mercurian of Flowers Amanda, Seraph of War (vessel of a 14 year old girl) Dell, Ofanite of Creation Simon, Malakite of Laurence Bezekiel, Kyriotate of Lightning Codex, Elohim of Destiny (deceased, as per the story) Santana, Malakite of Michael (new character, joining today) I don't know what the Elohite's new character will be. They're typical PCs: "Went looking for trouble. Found trouble. Trouble ran away. We went home." :) - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 10:38:25 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> The Death of Yves > > I'd like to lurk, if I may. Hell, I'd like to play, but it doesn't > > look like you're likely to have players loose interest anytime soon. > > Lurking would be a bit difficult, seeing as how this is a tabletop > game. Oh. The fact that you got emails in response to it made me think it was PBEM... > They're typical PCs: "Went looking for trouble. Found trouble. > Trouble ran away. We went home." :) "We heard." Yep, typical PCs. If you feel up to it, I could tell you the story of my nasty Kyriotate. For the amount of ruckous she caused, she did very little real damage or Disturbance... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@mci2000.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 10:58:59 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> The Death of Yves On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: > Oh. The fact that you got emails in response to it made me think it > was PBEM... See, that's what was so extraordinary about it. > > They're typical PCs: "Went looking for trouble. Found trouble. > > Trouble ran away. We went home." :) > > "We heard." Oh yes. They engaged in a frontal assualt upon a recordning studio protected by VapuTech. The resultant explosion created a 200+ disturbance.... > Yep, typical PCs. If you feel up to it, I could tell you the story > of my nasty Kyriotate. For the amount of ruckous she caused, she did > very little real damage or Disturbance... Oh, do tell. Our resident Kyrio is feeling a bit powerless right now, and nasty ideas like this could give him a lift. - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 11:14:54 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Innocence Attunements (was Re: The Death of Yves) On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Steve Jessop wrote: > The descriptions include the noun 'innocent', which is defined basically > to be a person under Christopher's Word. Thus it depends slightly on a > more extensive description of Chris. Children are the embodiment of Innocence, and so have the majority of Christopher's attention, but adults can fall under his auspice as well. Innocence covers such things as virginity, simplicity, and harmlessness. > These attunements are fairly powerful, because that is the way I run my > game. Tone them down as appropriate to yours. I love them all. Consider them gleefully stolen for use within my game. :) > Elohim > > [It occurs that this might be more appropriate as a distinction.] I think it would fit better as a Friend-level distinction. > One oath of every Malakim of Innocence is to destroy those who threaten > innocence wherever they encounter them. > > [Unless this is already Christopher's dissonance condition. How > non-militant did you say?] Non-militant in the sense that he won't organize a Crusade and begin slaughtering those who oppose his Word. But if he should happen to hear about child prostitution ring....well, let's just say that Malakim of Innocense enjoy their work. If the Word of Purity is unoccipied now that Uriel has been taken upstairs, it would fall under Christopher's Word. Like all Cherubim, he's more interested in protecting his charges than annihilating his foes. > Steve. Former Impudite of Kobal, apparently now redeemed as Mercurian of > Lovely Fluffy Things. Really, you look fabulous in fluffy pink fur. Honest. ;) - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 10:24:36 -0600 (CST) From: Austin George Loomis Subject: IN> Morden Digest #1 (current through v1 #614) On lThu, 5 Hippocrates 29 AT (Fri, 6 Feb 1998), at 23:31:02 EST, Mark Kinney wrote: >On Fri, 6 Feb 1998, Austin George Loomis wrote: >> Within the past couple of weeks, they've been rerunning the episodes where >> Londo does his deal with Morden, and IMO, the Shadows' agent is a Lilim -- >> his using a male vessel is just a convenience. >> >> The question is, in IN terms, who would his Superior be? >> >Malphas. > That was my first thought, I must say. >Strength is gained through conflict. Evolution must be served. > Good point, and the chief reason I wanted to vote for Malphas (until I went and looked up his Lilim attunement). Then, at 20:34:32 PST, Armand wrote: [...] >I would have to say Baal. The Shadow only care about making conflict for >the young races. This is so that they can achieve a higher sense of being. >Baal gets my vote. > Again, makes sense, and the Lilim of the War attunement fits his MO. And at 23:07:22 CST, Aaron wrote: [...] >i'm going way out on a limb, here. But i'm going for the complicated >approach. He's a Fallen Elohim of Stone. That would make just a Habbie >serving no one, who still thinks he's serving Stone. That way he can >make the younger races stronger and more independent and use a hell of a >lot nastier tactics to do it. > As they say down Texas way, "That dog won't hunt." In at least one ep that I've seen, Morden is shown talking with Shadows. He *knows* he's not a free agent. This doesn't preclude the possibility of his being a Habbie, it just (IMO) rules out his being Renegade/Outcast/whatever you call a Fallen who hasn't gotten a demonic Heart yet. On lFri, 6 H (Sat, 7 Feb 1998), at 01:34:02 EST, Kirt A. Dankmyer aka Loki wrote: [...] >Considering the Shadow philosophy is later revealed to one where evolution >can only be achieved through strife, good options (in order of likelhood, >IHMO) are: Malphas, Baal, and Vapula. > I hadn't thought of Vaps -- but then, I haven't seen enough stuff from far enough in to know whether Morden displays the Tech-Lilim attunement. (And Londo doesn't seem very technical to me.) Stacy Stroud's comments, and those from Frank Lazar, will be dealt with under separate cover, as they expand the scope of the discussion. At 15:55:34 GMT, Jo Hart wrote: >At 09:43 07/02/98 -0600, you wrote: [...] >>Sounds like a possibility to me, but the Lilim of Factions attunement doesn't >>seem to me like it fits (then again, maybe you play him as a different Band >>-- Balseraph could work, or Habbie). > >Different band sounds good. If he was a lilim, he wouldn't have needed to >ask people what they wanted ;) > Maybe he's got dreadful Perception and asking that question is his way of getting them to think about their Needs so he can pick up on them. (Hey, it could happen.) Or maybe he's a Habbie of Fate. Austin G. "That may actually make more sense" Loomis, MiSTie #84029 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 10:27:11 -0600 (CST) From: Austin George Loomis Subject: IN> [B5 SPOILERS] General thoughts On lFri, 6 Hippocrates 29 AT (Sat, 7 Feb 1998), at 03:48:52 EST, Stacy Stroud wrote: [...] >Hmm . . . you're a first-time viewer? > I'd caught a couple of first- (TKO, Quality of Mercy) and early second- season eps (only Points of Departure, actually), but nothing from the third or fourth. (I'd heard that if one hadn't been keeping up, as I hadn't, one got lost pretty quickly.) >No knowledge of later seasons? > Sketchy knowledge, mostly rumor and things I'd overheard. >Or are you "catching up" in the sense of re-watching or filling in gaps? > Filling in gaps, seeing things I've only heard about. Watching the vast tapestry that is JMS's master plan unfold in all its slow detail. >'Cause there's a pretty obvious answer, but it relies on information that >isn't fully confirmed until the climactic episode of the whole Shadow arc. > I'd heard a bit about it. [Spoiler space removed because it *says* Spoilers in the subject line. Those of you who, like me, read the digest (either in your inbox or on the WWW as I do) may wish to page down a screen or five.] >Based on the Shadow agenda as revealed in the 3rd-season finale, I'd say >that Malphas is the appropriate Superior for Morden. I'd call Justin a >Balseraph. > Since I haven't met Justin yet (unless that's Morden's forename), I'll provisionally take your word for it. >David fits fairly well as the Vorlon Superior, with the dual emphasis on >hard testing and communitarian values. Makes sense, based on what I've heard about the Vorlons. >Despite his occasional Kyrio trick, >I'd call Kosh a Cherub (which nicely illustrates the difference in social >skills between high-divinity Cherubim and low-divinity Mercurians, in spite >of their mutual focus on humans). How so? >Ulkesh (Kosh II) is either a >stereotypically nasty Malakite, or one of those coldly manipulative Elohim >that Beth occasionally talks about. > I think I'd go with the Elo theory, just because it dovetails with Frank Lazar's thoughts below. >Lorien is Yves . . . or at least, he gave me more ideas on portraying Yves >than anything else I've seen. > In which case, I can hardly wait until he shows up. >Any other ideas? > Not yet -- but dim notions about the Rangers. Then, at 10:11:52 EST, Frank Lazar wrote: [...] >with my respect for B5, I was going to stay out of this, but I couldn't >help myself. :) > Hey -- it happens to the best of us. >Morden - 8 Force Soldier of an Lilim of Kronos. He knows how to make a >deal and through him, many of met their Fate. > Another vote (besides my own) for Kronos. He actually makes *more* sense to me, now I think about it, than any other potential Prinz that's been mooted for Morden. Especially after this season's "The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari." To me, the story Vir and Londo discuss in the epilog implies that Londo had a Destiny brighter even than Sinclair's, but when he accepted Morden's help, he started on the path to his Fate. >Kosh Elohim Servitor of Blandine. Picked up a note of Dissonance when >he assumed Celestial Form to rescue Sheridan. Keeps himself hidden at all >times. > So are Encounter Suits vessels or relics? >Kosh 2 Habbalite in service to Belial. > Or (to merge in Stacy's theories) just an overenthusiastic Mal, or a highly dissonant Elo. >Sinclair/Valen Soldier in service of Yvves. > Makes some sense. >Sheridan Soldier in service of Michael. (Dominic is going to have a word >about this "cult of personality". :) > Doubtless. >Lorien A Celestial from the Higher Heavens under strict limiations. > Indeed. >Elric and the TechnoMages Mercurian and Soldiers in service to Jean. > Having seen "Geometry of Shadows" last Friday, I can't argue with your choice of Superior, though I'm not really sure how you conclude that Elric is a Merky. If I had to pick a Choir for him, off the top of my head, I'd say he's an Elo. >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >| _ | >| We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | Did I mention that I've preserved this .sig in my collection? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 12:39:13 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> The Death of Yves > > Yep, typical PCs. If you feel up to it, I could tell you the story > > of my nasty Kyriotate. For the amount of ruckous she caused, she did > > very little real damage or Disturbance... > > Oh, do tell. Our resident Kyrio is feeling a bit powerless right > now, and nasty ideas like this could give him a lift. Okay, I'm a Kyrio of War with a female human vessel, a cat host, and Celestial Motion, trying to get into a science lab which may or may not be a Vaputech lab. It has a security system, and I don't need to alert anybody to the fact that something's broken in. So I teleported the cat inside, and scope the place out. There don't appear to be any motion sensors, but there are security sensors on the doors, and probably on the windows. I considered wasting some more essence to just teleport my vessel in, but decided against it. The security keypad is next to a window, with some nice convenient drapes. I climb the drapes until I'm next to the box, and start kicking it (Kyrio strength in a tomcat host gets sick sometimes). Once the box cracks, I let instinct take it's course, and void my bladder on the thing, which promptly shorts out. Then I wait for the security people to show up. They do within five minutes, and when they walk in the door are greeted by a *screeching* cat, who is trying it's best to intimidate the (now broken) keypad. As soon as they come too close, the cat goes yowling away, only to sit outside the door and screech at the building and security men. While they are fixing the security system, my vessel picks the back door lock (whose keypad is shut off while they fix the front door lock), and sneaks into an unoccupied office. The cat harrasses the security people for a while longer, then tears off (between the legs of a security guy) when the pound car shows up to collect it. The fun thing is, everybody (including the company rep) thought it was an animal that had gotten away from the lab inside. So now all I have to do is swipe a similar cat from in there before I make my exit, and I'm golden...(I hope). Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@mci2000.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:44:29 GMT From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: Re: IN> The Death of Yves >Oh yes. They engaged in a frontal assualt upon a recordning studio protected >by VapuTech. The resultant explosion created a 200+ disturbance.... > >> Yep, typical PCs. If you feel up to it, I could tell you the story >> of my nasty Kyriotate. For the amount of ruckous she caused, she did >> very little real damage or Disturbance... > >Oh, do tell. Our resident Kyrio is feeling a bit powerless right now, and >nasty ideas like this could give him a lift. Oh, boy. _Don't_ ask about my resident Kyrio of Jordi. Let's see, at the moment he and the naive Cherub of Yves are hiding out in a local park after Jordi conveniently rescued them from the opera house... They sneaked in. They headed for the room where they knew a demon was hiding out. They stood outside the door to discuss things. The Kyrio found out there was a Shedite inside, and the Cherub got Habbalated into emptiness. Cue a song of Motion, a song of Shields, two songs of Ethereal Entropy, property damage, Shedite-human-host damage, giant animated tins of Raid attacking the Kyrio's swarms of mosquitoes, _four_ cases of people taking celestial form, and the invocation of Jordi... I do believe that the other local angels are going to have a few things to say. :) - --- Maya, Elohim of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 16:07:55 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> [B5 SPOILERS] General thoughts On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Austin George Loomis wrote: > >Despite his occasional Kyrio trick, > >I'd call Kosh a Cherub (which nicely illustrates the difference in social > >skills between high-divinity Cherubim and low-divinity Mercurians, in spite > >of their mutual focus on humans). > > How so? As a guess, it's because of how Kosh interacts with people. He's not a people person, even though he means well. He eally wants to help and protect people, but he makes them earn that help by figuring things out for themselves. He isn't particualrly "chatty", either. Rich Gant ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:17:37 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> The Death of Yves > They sneaked in. > They headed for the room where they knew a demon was hiding out. > They stood outside the door to discuss things. > The Kyrio found out there was a Shedite inside, and the Cherub got > Habbalated into emptiness. > Cue a song of Motion, a song of Shields, two songs of Ethereal Entropy, > property damage, Shedite-human-host damage, giant animated tins of Raid > attacking the Kyrio's swarms of mosquitoes, _four_ cases of people taking > celestial form, and the invocation of Jordi... I believe my entire comment on the scene was summed up to: "What a waste of Prank. If my vessel was going to bite it, I would have had the mosquitos on my face make loud bloodsucking sounds." But that's neither here nor there. (As an aside, I had nothing to do with this *particular* scene. Thank god.) > I do believe that the other local angels are going to have a few things to > say. :) And the local demon. No, wait, that's going to be screaming and wailing and gnashing of teeth. I see another emote roll to swear in my near future. :) - - Em ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #615 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.