From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Feb 12 14:31:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA28498 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:31:24 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id OAA18800 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:15:34 -0600 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:15:34 -0600 Message-Id: <199802122015.OAA18800@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #624 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, February 12 1998 Volume 01 : Number 624 In this digest: IN> Re: IN- In Nomine flavor concerns Re: IN> WW2 Re: IN> IN Safety's off, just don't shoot MY game... Re: IN> WW2 IN> Elohim Re: IN> Fiat Justitia Re: IN> WW2 Re: IN> WW2 Re: IN> IN Safety's off, just don't shoot MY game... IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Re: IN- Shedim and Free Will Re: IN> IN Safety's off, just don't shoot MY game... IN> Another adventure seed for IN:WWII Re: IN> Infernal Cult IN> Useful link (?) Re: IN> Another adventure seed for IN:WWII Re: IN> WW2 Re: IN> Another adventure seed for IN:WWII Re: IN> WW2 IN> Titles that should never be Re: IN> Another adventure seed for IN:WWII Re: IN> Useful link (?) Re: IN> Elohim Re: IN> Fiat Justitia Re: IN> Elohim Re: IN> WW2 Re: IN> Fiat Justitia Re: IN> IN Safety's off, just don't shoot MY game... Re: IN> Elohim Re: IN> Elohim ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 04:22:45 PST From: "Andrew Frades" Subject: IN> Re: IN- In Nomine flavor concerns >Hitler was not _directly_ an opponent of Heaven. He was manipulated by >infernal parties into great evil, yes, so where does the task lie in >dealing with this? *Destroy those parties responsible*. Hitler was a >rude peasant upstart who was nothing without his diabloical masters. The >answer is to remove *them*. Actually I believe that canon is that Hitler did it all himself, thus proving that Humans are capable of more Evil than demons could ever dream up. I also believe that canon is that Saminga's response to Hitler was, "Genocide? I wish I had thought of that." Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:16:01 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: IN> WW2 - ---David Edelstein wrote: > Frankly, I find the way some people jump up and scream and rant at mere > mention of the word "Nazi" or "Holocaust" exceedingly tiresome. Yes, it was > a terrible thing. Yes, it should be remembered. Yes, "Never again", etc. > etc. But it's a part of our history, one of the uglier parts, but I don't > think it should be accorded some sacred status making it more untouchable > than any other nasty episode in history in a roleplaying game. *applause* > Would you rant similarly if someone proposed, say, that Oliver Cromwell was > actually a demon? (OK, I guess that brief bout of hero worship didn't last long ;-) ). I'd rant more. I have no idea why Cromwell gets so demonised -- he was a great leader who stood up for what he believed in and defended the right of parliament to be able to make its own decisions independent of what any tyrannical monarch who claimed divine right had to say about it. (Charles I once stormed into the parliament chamber with armed guards and dragged some of the members off Even after the restoration the back of the Monarchy had been broken and it was never going to be the case again that a king could order parliament around. There is a statue of him outside parliament, right opposite Churchill. It even gets polished sometimes. If they call our system the mother of parliaments, Cromwell was probably its father. Also, John Milton (ie. author of Paradise Lost et al) was Cromwell's secretary & chief censor. He is not in the same league as Stalin (more people died in the Stalinist purges than in the Holocaust) or Pol Pot. (Now scrabbling for something on-topic to say) Do non-dissonant Elohim actually have personalities? Like if you left your Elohim in a bar with a few others and went to pick it up later, how long would it take before you realised you had got the wrong one? jo jo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:08:44 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> IN Safety's off, just don't shoot MY game... > > Make more definite statements about God the Creator, and it seems > > almost inevitable you'll start tripping over people's toes on > > issues like: One or Three? > > Or ten? Anybody up for my quick and dirty interpretation of the > Kabbalic sephirot for In Nomine? > Oh, go ahead and post it. Maya and I have been discussing that for, I dunno, weeks now, and have only come to a quasi conclusion. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:24:57 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> WW2 > Frankly, I find the way some people jump up and scream and rant at mere > mention of the word "Nazi" or "Holocaust" exceedingly tiresome. Yes, it was > a terrible thing. Yes, it should be remembered. Yes, "Never again", etc. > etc. But it's a part of our history, one of the uglier parts, but I don't > think it should be accorded some sacred status making it more untouchable > than any other nasty episode in history in a roleplaying game. The only > thing I would concede is that it requires a bit more sensitivity in its > treatment, given that there are still living victims. I agree, people do go over the top a bit when it comes to the Holocaust. But keep in mind that it's still a rather recent event, and people are still emotionally tied to it. Some people (like myself, for example) had relatives who died in the concentration camps, and reading about it in sourcebooks gives off that faint feeling of nausea. On the other hand, I don't see too much portrayal of what the Japanese did in Nanking in sourcebooks either. If we're going to do WWII atrocities, let's be fair and go all the way. So some sensitivity needs to be used when approaching the subject. Ignoring it or not including it in an "20th century American History" sourcebook would be wrong, but on the other hand, there's also other historical material that can be used instead, if one is just searching for random examples. > And even if the Holocaust itself was to be avoided, World War II was a > *huge* event, of which the Holocaust was only a part -- so it would be > utterly unrealistic to say "Don't even touch World War II, because the > Holocaust was part of it!" I agree, it's unrealistic. But on the other hand, if you're just looking for historical examples, it can be easily avoided in exchange for something else. I suppose it's just a matter of taste. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:30:19 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: IN> Elohim > (Now scrabbling for something on-topic to say) > > Do non-dissonant Elohim actually have personalities? Like if you left your > Elohim in a bar with a few others and went to pick it up later, how long > would it take before you realised you had got the wrong one? > I'm all for stickly labels for indentification purposes. And whatever you do, don't let them all dress the same, or you'll be really confused. "Wait, you're not Joe! Where's Joe? Did we leave him behind?" - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:07:48 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Fiat Justitia > *cringe* Oh, and some of us pray it won't revolve around Dominic > that much. Especially those of us whose little mistakes the local > Servitor doesn't know about yet. (Attacking the Kyrio instead of the > Shedite never does good things for your standing with Judgment, no matter > who was controlling your mind at the moment. :) ) And like Pat doesn't already have enough to get us all (even ME!) in all sorts of hot water. Hey, you guys get hauled in on Heresy, I get the Malakite hit squad. Be thankful for little favors. I'm telling you, Asmodeus. Really. Honestly. Listen to the theories of the Enlightened One. > > It was one of the medieval popes who said it. I don't remember which one. > > If that's the title of your campaign, and it doesn't revolve around > > Dominic, what is it about? If you don't mind me asking. > > > Maya's game, Rich, is about faceless, nameless, drooling evil. > Trust us. :) And Kyriotates! And being Funny! And Shedim Stew! > Currently, though, it seems to be about an opera; about violins; > about Judgment and the Game and the blurring boundaries between; about > cooperation, love, justice, second chances, and a really really nice bar. Um.... *peer at the Cherub* I am suspicious of all things. Although the bar is really nice. > Of course, I'm only one of the poor saps playing in it. Sooner or > later we'll find up what *Maya's* up to as opposed to what the PCs are > doing to, with, and about each other. Trust me, you'll be able to hear > the howls of pain even without checking the mailing list. :) Checking the mail list has it's own bonuses, too. But you can usually hear the screams of pain over the network. :) - - Em. And Maya IS faceless, drooling evil! I swear! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:43:03 -0500 (EST) From: IQJason@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> WW2 This topic has been fairly well explored by now, so I won't add much: 1. As the Demon of Game Review, I've got to put in another plug for WW's Charnel Houses of Europe. One of the best publications of 1997 in the gaming industry, and some solid history to boot. 2. "Goebbells is most certainly a Bal of Nybbas, and certainly a duke by now..." Um. Not according to H&H. If you'll turn to page 98: "Walter Duranty was able to snag a a job in Perdition P.R., and Errol Flynn charmed his way into Shal-Mari, but Josef Goebbels sits somewhere on a rock listening to a slowly rising tone forever." yours, loading his own canon, Jason Schneiderman ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:48:03 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> WW2 Pushing this thread in a less inflamatory direction -- Anyone wishing to do historical IN for the last two centuries might be interested in "The Occult Underground" and "The Occult Establishment" by James Webb. These are historical surveys of occultism in the 19th and 20th centuries, respectively (or, more exactly, from the Napoleonic Wars to World War One, for the first volume, and from World War One to "now" for the second). To my uninstructed eye, the books seem quite scholarly, but are also full of interesting incidents and characters. The capsule history of Mme. Blavatsky, the founder of Theosophy, is a scream, for instance. The title of the first book reflects Webb's view that occults are, or heavily overlap with, the "intelligensia of the Underground." The Underground is whatever the current opposition is to the Powers That Be, the Establishment. In my youth, it was "the Counter-Culture." Occultism is learning rejected by the Establishment, and generally goes to take up residence with the other rejects. The title of the second book refers to the Nazis, though the book is about much more than them. In the Nazis, we see a group once part of the Underground rising to become an Establishment, and taking a certain amount of occultism with it. (And, being Nazis, they promptly turned on the Underground they left behind them. Theosophists, Anthroposophists, and other un-approved occultists went to the camps along with Jews, Gypsies, gays, and Jehovah's Witnesses.) I don't recall the date of Webb's writing, but he seemed to leave off around the '70s. Otherwise, he would certainly have mentioned the New Age Movement, which he doesn't. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:49:39 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> IN Safety's off, just don't shoot MY game... Nathaniel Eliot wrote: > Or ten? Anybody up for my quick and dirty interpretation of the > Kabbalic sephirot for In Nomine? Sure. I've been vaguely curious about Kabbala for a few months now. It seems an obvious resource for IN, if one can figure out how to use it. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 06:54:56 PST From: "David Streeter" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Re: IN- Shedim and Free Will >>I'd say this is almost a mechanical device to emulate the corrupting >>influence of the Shedim. Viz., NPCs do not truly have "Free will", and >>the will rolls reflect that. > >Yoyu may be mistaking a game mechanic for the way it actually would work >from the perspective of the character. I agree that from the POV of the >character that the Shedim's influence would tend to shade things >differently, but for game purposes just make a will roll, its easier. Actually, that was exactly the point I was trying to make. >Now if you have a PC under the influence you should probably do exactly >as you say. Players hate it when you take away their control of the >character, but if you describe the scene differently... Hmm... but does being possessed by a Shedim make you *see* the world differently, or make you *think* about the world differently? I'd prefer the former - you still have free will, and it is more enjoyable to roleplay if a PC is possessed. Gratuitous reference that no-one will get: kind of like when John Stewart is possessed by Sinestro in "Green Lantern: MOSAIC" (about issue 3 or 4??) SurturZ Dissonant Elohite of Stone ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:03:19 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> IN Safety's off, just don't shoot MY game... > > > Or ten? Anybody up for my quick and dirty interpretation of the > > Kabbalic sephirot for In Nomine? > > Sure. I've been vaguely curious about Kabbala for a few months now. > It seems an obvious resource for IN, if one can figure out how to > use it. > Didn't Isaac Luria say that you had to be at least 40 and a trained Rabbi to study the 32 paths? We've been using the KULT resources (notable LEGIONS OF DARKNESS) to make connections between IN and the Tree of Life. I mean, there are obvious ones (Geburah/Din as Dominic, for instance) but some of it just doesn't match up. So I shall await someone to post stuff. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:28:52 PST From: "David Streeter" Subject: IN> Another adventure seed for IN:WWII Ummm... that bloke that didn't like IN set in WWII should probably click "delete" now... Here's a weird idea for a (very mature) In Nomine game set in WWII. Basically, the *DIABOLICALS* are trying to stop the Axis powers, and the *HOST* are trying to stop the diabolicals interfere with human history. It could be generally known that Yves had a private chat to Laurence, and now, to most angels' horror, orders have come from above him the Nazis are not to be touched, and, worse still, any demons found aiding the allies or attempting to thwart the Axis are to be stopped. A few archangels - Michael, perhaps David, have only few reservations about this, the rest of the archangels, particularly Novalis and Gabriel, are in almost open revolt. In corollary on the Diabolical side, Lucifer has ordered that the diabolicals are to stop the Nazis. Even Kronos can't believe it - he has spent huge resources ensuring Hitler meets his fate. Only Asmodeus is 100% committed to carrying out Lucifer's orders. Interesting? SurturZ Dissonant Elohite of Stone ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:36:20 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Infernal Cult Nicely done piece of nasty work. Neel Krishnaswami wrote: > I was trying to come up with an organization of out and out demon > worshippers for my campaign, and was having trouble trying to figure > out why a person would willingly serve the powers of Hell. "I'm clearly not going to get into Heaven, so I might as well make the best of Hell." "Heaven won't protect me from Hell, but maybe if I serve the Hell, it won't destroy me. For a while." "Hell offers better short-term benefits than Heaven. I'll side with Hell now and repent later." "I want to be on the winning side, and it's obvious which one that is." "The Light and the Dark are really the same thing from a sufficiently mystical point of view, and the Dark is more fun." "Heaven is slavery. Hell is freedom. Freedom no matter what!" (A line of argument familiar to Lilith.) "I want more than ANYTHING! More than Heaven! More than I want to escape the pains of Hell!" Popular values for include: - a great treasure - great wealth in general - a particular person as lover - great beauty and/or sex appeal - sorcerous power - great physical/martial power - the success of a favored cause "How dare you call the Great and Worshipable Thingie infernal!" Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:39:21 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: IN> Useful link (?) http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~eclectic/o/misc/colin.txt You might want to check out this link for a kind of intro/ FAQ on Kabbalah. I think the main thing is just to be aware that it was traditionally devised/ studied by rabbonim so don't expect to pick up on most of the intended associations/ symbolism (ie. they'll be taking a huge amount of background for granted) jo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:01:53 -0500 From: Brandon Quina Subject: Re: IN> Another adventure seed for IN:WWII > Here's a weird idea for a (very mature) In Nomine game set in WWII. > Basically, the *DIABOLICALS* are trying to stop the Axis powers, and > the *HOST* are trying to stop the diabolicals interfere with human > history. That would definatly be very mature. If I ran that, I would loose half my players, and 1/4th of my friends. :) my In Nomine players who happen to be Jewish would have a *really* hard time accepting that. Hell, /I/ would have a hard time accepting that. Period. > It could be generally known that Yves had a private chat to Laurence, > and now, to most angels' horror, orders have come from above him the > Nazis are not to be touched, and, worse still, any demons found aiding > the allies or attempting to thwart the Axis are to be stopped. * Brandon imagines Dominic halling Yves to the divine inquisition. > In corollary on the Diabolical side, Lucifer has ordered that the > diabolicals are to stop the Nazis. Even Kronos can't believe it - he > has spent huge resources ensuring Hitler meets his fate. Only Asmodeus > is 100% committed to carrying out Lucifer's orders. Yep :) This is about as mature as it gets. Sorry, but no way I would ever consider running that. Hell, my dad was 9 during WWII, he would kill me if he found out id done something like that. There was no way the Axis coulda been the good guys. The japanese would routinely starve their prisoners to death. Explain how nazi-death camps could be divinely ordained?? > Interesting? Afraid I dont agree. I dont find it intresting. I find it more along the lines of just... distasteful. But thats just because I happen to know alot about what happened during the war. My grandfather actually *crys* when he talks about it. White Wolf did a good job in the Charnel Houses book, because they didnt try to blame it on any supernatural side. If they'd made a book where even the NAZI's were caused by the vampires they woulda gotten in trouble. If they'd written a book where the evil soul-sucking wyrm was behind the Allies defence.......... well, lets not get into that. World War II brought the united states together. Everybody was in the war effort. You turned 18, you joined the armed forces. In your gas tank, you had *just* enough gas to get to work and back. You carpooled/walked/or rode on horse-drawn taxi's to get anywhere else. You couldnt buy lots of things, because it was reserved for the troops. But that was 'okay', nobody complained. They were all galvanized. Sure, afew bad things happened because of it. Japanese and Germans being taken away to camps to keep them from helping on the chance they were spys. My grandfather (who was 9 at the time) and a bunch of his friends just knew this german guy in the neighborhood was a nazi spy. because, sure, he was *german* and all germans were nazi spys. That poor guy couldnt do anything without one of the kids taking note of him doing it. :) However, it was still a very inspiring time, expecially now adays. Sometimes I wonder-- if we had to, would we show as much courage as our grandparents did? Would we all go and join the army/navy/airforce? Would we give up gas, and other luxurys?? Anyways, my rant is over. Sorry :) * Brandon climbs off his soapbox. - -- (lore@tmgbbs.com) \\/// Brandon Lance Quina (x x) ICQ Number: 6809944 ---ooO(_)Ooo--- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:52:04 +0000 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> WW2 David Edelstein wrote; > Now, I would disagree with the depiction >of Goebbels as a demon simply because I don't like making every important >historical figure a celestial because it makes humans irrelevant. Agreed. And Goebbels certainly wasn't a balseraph in any case (he killed himself, his wife, and his children shortly after the Fuhrer took his own life). Balseraphs would surely be saying "Well, Adolf old chum, it's been fun...Gotta run along now!". Himmler was far more important. Probably a competant sorceror. Perhaps more than Hitler himself. Interesting fact: Hitler waited until April 30th to whack himself - Walpurgis Night. - -- Jules ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:22:36 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Another adventure seed for IN:WWII I would not run such a game myself, but: Brandon Quina wrote: > There was no way the Axis coulda been the good guys. Agreed. I think the idea was that Heaven was, as usual, trying to prevent infernal interference, but that Hell was trying to thwart the Axis because it would cause too much moral awakening on the part of humans. I don't think anyone was saying the Axis were good guys. I don't think it works, though. If Hell wanted to prevent evil, I think Heaven would grin and let it. The disorganization this would cause in Hell -- and the dissent! Malphas, fasten your seat belt. -- plus the basic good this would do Earth, would far outweigh the bending of the free-will/hands-off policy, which is clearly bendable or we'd never hear about angels in the first place. And I don't think Hell would go for it. The atrocities brought some people to moral awareness and courage, but it brought others to self-induced moral blindness and cowardice and hatred and despair. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:23:45 -0800 From: Armand Subject: Re: IN> WW2 >> Frankly, I find the way some people jump up and scream and rant at mere >> mention of the word "Nazi" or "Holocaust" exceedingly tiresome. Yes, it was >> a terrible thing. Yes, it should be remembered. Yes, "Never again", etc. >> etc. But it's a part of our history, one of the uglier parts, but I don't >> think it should be accorded some sacred status making it more untouchable >> than any other nasty episode in history in a roleplaying game. The only >> thing I would concede is that it requires a bit more sensitivity in its >> treatment, given that there are still living victims. > >I agree, people do go over the top a bit when it comes to the Holocaust. >But keep in mind that it's still a rather recent event, and people are >still emotionally tied to it. Some people (like myself, for example) had >relatives who died in the concentration camps, and reading about it in >sourcebooks gives off that faint feeling of nausea. > >On the other hand, I don't see too much portrayal of what the Japanese did >in Nanking in sourcebooks either. If we're going to do WWII atrocities, >let's be fair and go all the way. Sorry, in a sense, this is one of my pet subjects. On a factual level, nearly every group that was actively detained in the Holocaust has a story. The Jews, homosexuals, Christian sympathizing with the Jews, etc. The only group that gets a sentence or two are the Gypsies. I went to the "Anne Frank" exibit when it came to town. There were pannels that explained atrocities then and now to all people by different nations and so forth. The Gypsies, who I might add were the first taken to the concetration camps recieved a couple of small paragraphs; mostly pertaining to the typ of badge that the Gypsies wore in concentration camps. Here is where I have to give kudos to White Wolf. In their Ravnos Clanbook, they actually have a page, a whole page about the Gypsies in concentration camps. Granted, it was a very, very dark page in the annals of vampiric lore, but they got mentioned. >> And even if the Holocaust itself was to be avoided, World War II was a >> *huge* event, of which the Holocaust was only a part -- so it would be >> utterly unrealistic to say "Don't even touch World War II, because the >> Holocaust was part of it!" > >I agree, it's unrealistic. But on the other hand, if you're just looking >for historical examples, it can be easily avoided in exchange for >something else. I suppose it's just a matter of taste. > >- Em I did mention that my mind is like a slow cooker didn't I. I got back to thinking about the don't touch WWII, ang got to thinking along the subjects. This was a war in two theatres; Europe and South East Asia. (Well, Africa too; but who's counting?) Let me preface this by saying that this is just my idea for a game subject. It paints the Japanese of WWII in a demon light, and if this idea offends, then delete now: First of all, the balloon bombs; an idea that was to get Americans going nuts when they discovered that Japan was shipping bombs to be randomly dropped. Sounds like one of Nybbas' plots. Some celestial, or band there of, was capable of keeping these bombs out of the news... Second, the kamikaze. Now, wouldn't that just qualify as a Shedite's night out? Grab a body, strap it into a plane, make it kill itself and others. Can anyone say tiger cages? Sorry, I should stop now; my creativity is on a caffeine to blood ratio. The blood is winning, Armand ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:19:46 -0800 (PST) From: Querent Subject: IN> Titles that should never be There I sat, without task, desire, or inspiration. Being the fluid creature I am, unable to remain static in action for any length of time, I started simply brainstorming new ideas for In Nomine adventures. Often, I spark upon a title, and an adventure forms from there. Here are some I've come up with. Many will soon be posted on my website. Some will not. Play with them at your leisure, or build your own adventures around them. CELESTIALS OF PUGET SOUND Puget Sound is the inlet of water near Seattle Washington. As I am currently finishing up a write up of Seattle for In Nomine, I thought it fitting, if simple. Eureka! The acronym for that would be COPS. :) DIVINITY IN BLACK Dominic, Laurence, and Michael have finally agreed on one thing. A squad of well trained angels, fanaticly loyal, and quite trusted, are assigned to a new force of handpicked celestials who do that which no other angels can be expected to accomplish. Kind of an IN Mission Impossible. These are the guys who snuck into Hell and reclaimed the captured malakim from the other side. I kind of liked the thought, then again playing with acronyms... dibs. KNIGHT TAKES QUEENS BISHOP This I developed for a con, which I subsequently missed. Joshua Bishop, a Saint of Laurence living in a New York suburb is kidnapped by a Knight of the Game as bait for the PC's. The Knight's true intent is to lure in the PC's and put them on the trail of a renegade. The renegade is 13 forces, and far too strong for the Knight to take on his own. The suburb Mr. Bishop lived in? Queens of course. ASMODEUS RISING Lucifer has done the unthinkable. He is nurturing, protecting, and helping a human woman. He's actually fallen in love. He's not using her to any foul end, causing anyone misery, or even picking on underlings any more. In fact, he's retired from his usual activities entirely. Charged with rooting out disloyalty to Hell in all of it's inhabitants, Asmodeus charges Lucifer with treason in the Dark Prince's absence. A number of Princes, each hungry for power, support him and raise forces to give Lucifer a not too happy homecoming reception. Why is Lucifer being all lovey dovey? Simple, she's pregnant. (I'm sorry, did someone say anti-christ?) What better Adversary than one who seems happy and trustworthy? WHERE ANGELS FEAR TO TREAD A remnant with one Ethereal force remaining comes crawling up to Blandine's tower with a final plea. "Raphael...alive..." he stammers, "...Grendel..." and then dissipates as his final point of Intelligence finally wanes. If any ethereal spirits are questioned, they will confirm that the German beast Grendel has secluded himself in the far marches, and is as potent there as ever. A unicorn encountered on the way will confirm that a disoriented outsider was seen beyond the Vale. NEUTRAL GROUND (This one was actually invented by one of my players, whose character died in the attempt.) A Calabite of War has gone renegade. He's fed up with getting picked on, stomped on, and manipulated. He doesn't even destroy beauty anymore because "that's just what they'd want me to do." His new goal is to begin a Celestial Liberation movement. He seeks to gain supporters to build a third celestial realm, where decisions are made in a democratic fashion, and all celestials have rights. This 3rd realm would remain uninvolved in the petty war between Heaven and Hell. Do the PC's help him? Hinder him? Or ignore him? Well, have fun. I'm going to trot off and play now. == --Querent, Angel of Widescreen. Mercurian Servitor of Creation. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:39:22 -0800 From: Armand Subject: Re: IN> Another adventure seed for IN:WWII >White Wolf did a good job in the Charnel Houses book, because >they didnt try to blame it on any supernatural side. If they'd >made a book where even the NAZI's were caused by the vampires they >woulda gotten in trouble. If they'd written a book where the >evil soul-sucking wyrm was behind the Allies defence.......... >well, lets not get into that. I have to interject here; if you read a lot of the lesser source books for both Vampire and Werewolf, you'll find a lot of references to WWII. Some notable Malkavians who were behind concentration camp administration (Chicago by Night, Book of the Wyrm) Many of the Garou were for or against the war (the tribebooks for Bone Gnawers, Get of Fenris, etc.) Just check out some of the Clanbooks, they talk about a number of things that they did/not do to "aid" people in the camps. Armand ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:06:16 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Useful link (?) > > http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~eclectic/o/misc/colin.txt > > You might want to check out this link for a kind of intro/ FAQ on Kabbalah. > > I think the main thing is just to be aware that it was traditionally > devised/ studied by rabbonim so don't expect to pick up on most of the > intended associations/ symbolism (ie. they'll be taking a huge amount of > background for granted) That's Colin Low, and I believe I was ripped a new one on this list for referencing HIS reference to the late, great Gersholm Sholem (who is perfectly in-play for Kabbalah references, but that's neither here nor there.) The problem is that Colin tends to focus on some of the more Occult-y Magick New Age popular sort of Kabbalah, and not the conventional, conservative Sephardic Jewish version (Like I said, Isaac Luria). So, general disclaimer: For doing stuff for games, I don't care which version or what sources people use - we're not trying to understand the paths of Chokmah here, just trying to make corrospondances for Sephirah - -> IN. Yadda yadda yadda. Hopefully I won't get suckered into sitting around and pondering this too much. :) - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:47:02 -0400 (EDT) From: gibsonc@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Elohim On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Emily Dresner wrote: > > > (Now scrabbling for something on-topic to say) > > > > Do non-dissonant Elohim actually have personalities? Like if you left your > > Elohim in a bar with a few others and went to pick it up later, how long > > would it take before you realised you had got the wrong one? > > > > I'm all for stickly labels for indentification purposes. And whatever > you do, don't let them all dress the same, or you'll be really confused. > Elohim are stoic, not dead. They can have personalities and may even be funny at times. I doubt they make great comedians but they play execellant straight men. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:16:43 GMT From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: Re: IN> Fiat Justitia >> *cringe* Oh, and some of us pray it won't revolve around Dominic >> that much. Especially those of us whose little mistakes the local >> Servitor doesn't know about yet. (Attacking the Kyrio instead of the >> Shedite never does good things for your standing with Judgment, no matter >> who was controlling your mind at the moment. :) ) > >And like Pat doesn't already have enough to get us all (even ME!) in >all sorts of hot water. Hey, you guys get hauled in on Heresy, I get the >Malakite hit squad. Be thankful for little favors. You should just be grateful that you haven't had a Seraph in the same room as you and the Ofanite of Marc yet. Those minor little details that you've been omitting would _interest_ other people. Really. >I'm telling you, Asmodeus. Really. Honestly. Listen to the theories of >the Enlightened One. Very nice theories. Very pretty theories. I _like_ the theories. I make no comment about the accuracy of the theories. But they're perfectly good theories. (Looks encouraging) >> Maya's game, Rich, is about faceless, nameless, drooling evil. >> Trust us. :) > >And Kyriotates! And being Funny! And Shedim Stew! And justice, and love, and manipulation, and war... Oh, and for some reason a fair amount of violence, too. >> Currently, though, it seems to be about an opera; about violins; >> about Judgment and the Game and the blurring boundaries between; about >> cooperation, love, justice, second chances, and a really really nice bar. > >Um.... *peer at the Cherub* I am suspicious of all things. >Although the bar is really nice. It's a Tether of Eli, but the Seneschal is a Malakite who hangs out in the kitchen. What can I say? Most dangerous noodles in town. >> Of course, I'm only one of the poor saps playing in it. Sooner or >> later we'll find up what *Maya's* up to as opposed to what the PCs are >> doing to, with, and about each other. Trust me, you'll be able to hear >> the howls of pain even without checking the mailing list. :) > >Checking the mail list has it's own bonuses, too. But you can usually >hear the screams of pain over the network. :) You know, I haven't even _started_ yet. All this screaming is just what from the PCs manage to do to each other. I wonder how loud we can go. >- Em. And Maya IS faceless, drooling evil! I swear! Flatterer. :) - --- Maya, Elohim of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:41:52 +0000 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Elohim At 08:30 12/02/98 -0500, you wrote: > >> (Now scrabbling for something on-topic to say) >> >> Do non-dissonant Elohim actually have personalities? Like if you left your >> Elohim in a bar with a few others and went to pick it up later, how long >> would it take before you realised you had got the wrong one? >> > >I'm all for stickly labels for indentification purposes. And whatever >you do, don't let them all dress the same, or you'll be really confused. Maybe tattoos? ;) jo - ---------- "I like getting into hot water, it keeps me clean." G. K. Chesterton jhart@btinternet.com -- http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~jhart/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:51:01 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> WW2 On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: > I want to see the Holocaust understood in regular historical context, > and if that means a few tacky gaming supplements are published, so be > it. Most definantly. I doubt I'd want to do a game revolving around in, but it would make for good emotional impact. As far as being historically understood, the problem is that it is too publicized. People hear about the Holocaust and none of the other atrocities, so they assume that it is the only thing like that. I blame poor historical education (but then, I'm a history major). > This seems to suggest that part of your problem stems from the fact > that WW2 is still in living memory. Would you have the same objection > if this were 2020 and there were no more survivors living? Or alternately, > would you object to a game that suggested that US involvement in the > Vietnam war was the result of an alien-dominated conspiracy? Oddly enough, I'd buy a game like that. Rich Gant ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:53:51 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Fiat Justitia On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Eslin wrote: > Maya's game, Rich, is about faceless, nameless, drooling evil. > Trust us. :) In Nomine: Call of Cthulhu? Nah. That's not evil. Just alien, uncaring, and hostile to humanity. > Currently, though, it seems to be about an opera; about violins; > about Judgment and the Game and the blurring boundaries between; about > cooperation, love, justice, second chances, and a really really nice bar. Now that really sounds cool. Especially the part about an opera. Rich Gant ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:58:43 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> IN Safety's off, just don't shoot MY game... On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: > Or ten? Anybody up for my quick and dirty interpretation of the > Kabbalic sephirot for In Nomine? I am. I've been trying to come up with a good use for sephirot ever since your explanation of them a few months back. Rich Gant ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:06:23 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Elohim > >> Do non-dissonant Elohim actually have personalities? Like if you left your > >> Elohim in a bar with a few others and went to pick it up later, how long > >> would it take before you realised you had got the wrong one? > >> > > > >I'm all for stickly labels for indentification purposes. And whatever > >you do, don't let them all dress the same, or you'll be really confused. > > > Maybe tattoos? ;) > Oh, that's just mean. Mean mean mean. :) - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:06:08 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Elohim On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Emily Dresner wrote: > > (Now scrabbling for something on-topic to say) > > > > Do non-dissonant Elohim actually have personalities? Like if you left your > > Elohim in a bar with a few others and went to pick it up later, how long > > would it take before you realised you had got the wrong one? > > I'm all for stickly labels for indentification purposes. And whatever > you do, don't let them all dress the same, or you'll be really confused. > > "Wait, you're not Joe! Where's Joe? Did we leave him behind?" Maybe color-coding them? Tattoos on those large, bald heads? Most certainly, pick their clothes out *for* them. Otherwise, they will all dress alike (basic black. It's simpler, and logically that makes it the correct choice.). Rich Gant ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #624 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.