From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Feb 12 19:08:26 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22376 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:08:26 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id SAA26227 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:47:52 -0600 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:47:52 -0600 Message-Id: <199802130047.SAA26227@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #625 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, February 12 1998 Volume 01 : Number 625 In this digest: Re: IN> [FLUFF] The Devil and Marijuana IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #623 Re: IN> Another adventure seed for IN:WWII Re: IN> Another adventure seed for IN:WWII Re: IN> Elohim Re: IN> Elohim Re: IN> The Angel of World War Two et al IN> In Nomine High Re: IN> Elohim Re: IN> Elohim Re: IN> [B5 SPOILERS] General observations [none] IN> FLUFF! Turmoil in Heaven! Re: IN> WW2 Re: IN> Fiat Justitia Re: IN> Lilim and Reproduction Re: IN> Another adventure seed for IN:WWII Re: IN> Elohim Re: IN> Fiat Justitia IN> Re: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 00:13:45 -0800 From: Rob Wolff Subject: Re: IN> [FLUFF] The Devil and Marijuana jesse wrote: > Hi there! > > I just found this interesting article on the internet about the > connection between Lucifer and marijuana. It can also be found at > http://www2.cibola.net/~prophet/maryjane.html It will probably > be easier to read it there. > (snip) Hmmm... reminds me of an IN adventure I did awhile back, involving an ANGEL who had tried to promote Marijuana throughout the sixties as a means of attaining spiritual harmony, brotherly love, etc. (Personal Note: I've never actually tried Marijuana ... guess my snowboarding career is safe...) My players got a kick out of the idea, however. Sadly, I don't have a copy of any of that stuff anymore. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:24:07 -0500 From: Neelakantan Krishnaswami Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #623 Return-Path: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by b60784.STUDENT.CWRU.Edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA23395 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 06:38:45 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id FAA07361 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 05:06:13 -0600 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 05:06:13 -0600 Message-Id: <199802121106.FAA07361@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #623 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, February 12 1998 Volume 01 : Number 623 :Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 22:00:12 -0700 (MST) :From: Jason Corley :Subject: Re: IN> WW2 : :On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, David Edelstein wrote: : :> I don't think describing the diabolical role in the Holocaust (*if* such a :> storyline is ever published) would be attempting to do that. : :I think it really depends on the -sort- of In Nomine game you're running. :If it's just one of moderate "darkness", it might be revealed that Hell :had a guiding hand in the Holocaust, through whatever guile, force or :whatnot they managed to do it. : :If it's a -really- bleak In Nomine game, you might say that it was all :human. I don't see this at all, actually. I'm working on a game that's rather bright, and the celestials had very little to do with World War Two. In C.S. Lewis's _The Screwtape Letters_, the demon Screwtape was rather indifferent to the world war. From his perspective, all humans will die eventually, and it's what happens afterwards that ultimately matters. A war offers the opportunity to lead humans into cruelty, cowardice and chauvinism, yes, but it also reminds humans of their mortality (and hence of their afterlives) and offers a chance for some of the highest acts of faith and sacrfice to occur. - ---- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:22:28 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Another adventure seed for IN:WWII On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, David Streeter wrote: > Here's a weird idea for a (very mature) In Nomine game set in WWII. > > Basically, the *DIABOLICALS* are trying to stop the Axis powers, and the > *HOST* are trying to stop the diabolicals interfere with human history. I find this disturbing, so it *must* be a good idea. So I will speculate. Apparently, the Host's decision to allow the Axis to continue came from Yves. He must feel that this war will be a good way to allow many, *many* mortals to find their destinies. War (both on the lines and the home front) makes heroes and provides opportunity for selfless sacrifice. In addition, Yves understands that the War is about the humans. If their decisions are made for them, the War becomes pointless. > It could be generally known that Yves had a private chat to Laurence, > and now, to most angels' horror, orders have come from above him the > Nazis are not to be touched, and, worse still, any demons found aiding > the allies or attempting to thwart the Axis are to be stopped. I strongly suspect that Laurence would brief at least his own Servitors about this. That way, like it or not, at least the angels *understand* what is going on. > A few archangels - Michael, perhaps David, have only few reservations > about this, the rest of the archangels, particularly Novalis and > Gabriel, are in almost open revolt. Michael and David would understand (although Michael, given his relationship with Yves, wouldn't like it much). Novalis and Zadkiel would have coronaries. Gabriel, filled with the urge to punish the cruel, might have to be physically restrained at times. Nobody would be very happy. > In corollary on the Diabolical side, Lucifer has ordered that the > diabolicals are to stop the Nazis. Even Kronos can't believe it - he has > spent huge resources ensuring Hitler meets his fate. Only Asmodeus is > 100% committed to carrying out Lucifer's orders. This I can't figure out. Why would Lucifer want to stop the Axis? I would think he would want to push it as hard as he can, to keep the war going. Baal, Belial, Mammon, and Kronos would be right behind the war. Kobal would have a grand time with some of the occurrances in the concentration camps (sick, I know). Wait, I've got it! Just like Screwtape discusses in the Screwtape Letters! Lucifer knows that the surest way to damn a human soul is by slow and steady means. War presents too many opportunities for the kind of self-sacrificing acts that get a human soul into Heaven. War is simply bad for the business of Hell. > Interesting? Very. Rich Gant ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:30:47 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Another adventure seed for IN:WWII On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Brandon Quina wrote: > There was no way the Axis coulda been the good guys. > The japanese would routinely starve their prisoners to death. Explain > how nazi-death camps could be divinely ordained?? As I understood it, he wasn't saying that the Axis Powers were the good guys, or that they were sanctioned by Heaven. He was saying that Heaven couldn't interfere. Angelic intervention in human affairs must be kept to a minimum, and getting activly involved in WWII does not meet that criteria. I'm sure that there were still plenty of angels maintaining their Roles during WWII, and promoting their Archangel's Words. They just aren't allowed to actualy try to *end* the war; that has to be left to the humans, distasteful as that seems. > Afraid I dont agree. I dont find it intresting. > I find it more along the lines of just... distasteful. > > But thats just because I happen to know alot about what > happened during the war. My grandfather actually *crys* > when he talks about it. That's why I wouldn't run it myself. I just find it an interesting thought exercise. Rich Gant ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:32:03 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Elohim What is this, Bash an Elohite Day? This is like listening to a series of dumb-blonde jokes. No, they won't all dress in black. They get dissonance for letting emotion sway them to act selfishly. NO angel *should* act selfishly, for emotional reasons or any other; Elohim are just the ones who get dissonance for it. Aside from that-- Elohite walks up to the clothes rack. Is there a moral difference between the red dress and the blue dress? Not if the necklines are the same. It likes red, so it takes red. No dissonance. Do they have senses of humor. Yes, but most of the other choirs don't get the jokes, if you want to go by *their* stereotypes. Seraphim, Cherubum, and Malakim are stereotypically deficient in humor generally. Kyriotates and Ophanim sound like they mostly appreciate slapstick. Maybe the Mercurians get their jokes, or maybe they just laugh politely. Geez. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:57:15 -0800 (PST) From: Querent Subject: Re: IN> Elohim Preach it Earl baby! I don't know where people get the idea that Elohim are so bland. Who wants to play bland? Yech! An Elohite can certainly dress flamboyantly, die his hair blue, and speak with a Jamaican accent all the live long day. He can even really enjoy himself doing it. What he CAN'T do is choose to act that way when it interferes with an objective decision. If he dresses like this when his best chance of success is to play the religious right, he's asking for it. If however he needs to win the admiration of pot smokers at the local high school to keep them out of trouble, listen for Bob Marley tunes coming from his beat up car. They have to remain objective. They can't play hunches, they can't go with gut feelings, they can't do something out of guilt... It's easier for some to take a detached position. So be it. But there's no reason an Elohite can't enjoy his feelings, and do so passionately. He's just not ever allowed to let his feelings out of strict control. - ---Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > What is this, Bash an Elohite Day? This is like listening to a series > of dumb-blonde jokes. > > No, they won't all dress in black. They get dissonance for letting > emotion sway them to act selfishly. NO angel *should* act selfishly, > for emotional reasons or any other; Elohim are just the ones who > get dissonance for it. Aside from that-- > > Elohite walks up to the clothes rack. Is there a moral difference > between the red dress and the blue dress? Not if the necklines are > the same. It likes red, so it takes red. No dissonance. > > Do they have senses of humor. Yes, but most of the other choirs don't > get the jokes, if you want to go by *their* stereotypes. Seraphim, > Cherubum, and Malakim are stereotypically deficient in humor generally. > Kyriotates and Ophanim sound like they mostly appreciate slapstick. > Maybe the Mercurians get their jokes, or maybe they just laugh > politely. > > Geez. > > Earl > == --Querent, Angel of Widescreen. Mercurian Servitor of Creation. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:15:54 -0000 From: "Craw Wurm" Subject: Re: IN> The Angel of World War Two et al > In the special case of the Angel of WWII, he was, more specifically, > the Angel of Helping the Allies Win World War Two. Well, they won. > And now they will always have won. His Word is as "promoted" as it > can get. Maybe nothing happens to the angel except that now he can't > take any other Word (since I never heard of anyone having more than > one). To get a new Word, he'd have to have the old one removed (if > that's possible). Undoubtedly a drastic step to take. So maybe The Seraphim Council has the power to give an angel a word, why not have the power to take it away? > Earl Craw-Wurm "I stayed up all night playing poker with tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:52:48 -0000 From: "Craw Wurm" Subject: IN> In Nomine High Here's a little thing 3 bored celestials came up with on #innomine on Efnet - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------------------------------------------------- In Nomine High Angels: Heaven, Teachers lounge Blandine, Day dreamer Christopher, The rest of the students who aren't mentioned here David, wrestling team champion Dominic, the little kid that reminds the teacher to give the class homework Eli, the slacker kid that just barely gets by, misses more days then he comes, often sleeps in class Gabriel, The psycho pyromaniac Janus, The kid who can't stop farting at innapropriate moments Jean, The computer know-it-all Jordi, Animal fanatic Laurence, Leader of the main gang in your year Marc, The rich kid from uptown Novalis, Brain dead, pot smoking cheer leader.. Uriel, The christian fanatic that went a little off during last prom.. was taken to the principle's office and never heard from again.. Yves, All round smart arse - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------------------------------------------------- Demons: Hell, Boy's toilets Asmodeus, Bully who's always left in charge of the class Baal, The rich snobbish football star.. Beleth, The girl that always wears black and likes halloween a little too much.. Belial, The lad who's always breaking things, preferably with fire Fleurity, Well...he's obvious Furfur, Kid with a ghetto blaster Haagenti, The overweight kid who everybody makes fun of (they'll regret it in the end) Kobal, Class clown Kronos, Smarmy smart arse Lilith, Class slut Malphas, The group of people who incite fights Mammon, The sleezy kid thats always chewing on gum and trying to make deals with everyone, including teachers.. good at getting anything you want, for a price Nybbas, Film student Saminga, The kid that always huddles in a corner pulling the wings off of flies and eating glue Valefor, Theif who can't keep his fingers still Vapula, Chemistry student - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------------------------------------------------- By Craw-Wurm, Daphne and Stardrake on #innomine, Efnet Editing and other filled in gaps by Craw-Wurm Craw-Wurm "I stayed up all night playing poker with tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:19:48 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Elohim Someone on this list, I forget who, wrote up the cast of "Touched by an Angel" in IN stats. Tess, played by Della Reese, comes out as an Elohite. She is NOT emotionless, and she is *definitely* not without style. What she is, is clear-sighted and firm of purpose. She has no trouble communicating her feelings about what needs to be done, but she does it. And when nothing needs doing at the moment, she tries to train her dog, or sings blues, or whatever. A Seraph tells the truth but takes the last beer. He's a naughty angel, but he doesn't get dissonance. A Malak swats demons, keeps his oaths, and cuts in front of you in line. He's acted selfishly, but he doesn't get dissonance for it. A Mercurian smiles sweetly and gets his human servitor to do the paperwork he's supposed to do. He may be sliding toward impudom, but you can't tell it from the dissonance. An Elohite can do none of those things without getting dissonance, but it can grouse about having to go get more beer because *somebody* (meaningful glance at seraph) didn't go shopping when it was their turn, and he can shove back at the Malak, and he can tell the Mercurian to do his own by-our-lady paperwork in a very sharp tone. Or not. As he chooses. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:30:20 +0000 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Elohim At 12:57 12/02/98 -0800, you wrote: > >If he dresses like this when his best chance of success is to play the >religious right, he's asking for it. If however he needs to win the >admiration of pot smokers at the local high school to keep them out of >trouble, listen for Bob Marley tunes coming from his beat up car. > So how can you tell if you did pick up the right Elohim from the bar?? Put in the same situation, they'd all do the same thing. Probably in the same way. jo - ---------- "I like getting into hot water, it keeps me clean." G. K. Chesterton jhart@btinternet.com -- http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~jhart/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:07:58 -0600 (CST) From: Martin Leslie Leuschen Subject: Re: IN> [B5 SPOILERS] General observations <\lurk> > > Last time I heard: "We are all Kosh." I do know that in the pilot > >Kosh I was refered to as "Kosh Naranek" but that went away. Is Kosh > >II "Kosh Ulkesh" and if so where is that revealed? >Back when I was on the Demo Team for the Babylon Project RPG,we had a >similar thread. The concensus of the list members was that Kosh was >actually a title. We guessed something like a mentor or teacher. Thus the >first Vorlons name Kosh Naranek, would have meant Mentor Naranek. The >second Vorlon, who was a bit more hard-core, would have let his >definition of the title be something like Master Ironically enough, Naranek was the title, while Kosh and Ulkesh were names. (More or less - unsurprisingly Vorlon doesn't translate well.) "We are all Kosh" was more arrogance and politics than anything else. The Vorlons didn't want it publicly known that the original Kosh had died. Aside: Amongst B5 fans, that "We are all Kosh" line led to the designations of "Kosh Classic" and "New Kosh," which eventually (sorta spoiler) mutated into "Kosh Vader." Ulkesh's real name was never revealed on the series, IIRC, but was revealed by JMS on the net. IIRC, it was also suggested that B5 fans refer to themselves as Kosh as well, since "Bee five fan" is kinda unwieldy, and after all, "we are all Kosh." Regards, Martin Leuschen martinl@rice.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:32:05 -0500 From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: [none] >Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:16:01 -0000 >From: "Hart, Joanna" >Subject: Re: IN> WW2 > > >I have no idea why Cromwell gets so demonised -- he was a great leader who >stood up for what he believed in and defended the right of parliament to be >able to make its own decisions independent of what any tyrannical monarch >who claimed divine right had to say about it. (Charles I once stormed into >the parliament chamber with armed guards and dragged some of the members off >Even after the restoration the back of the Monarchy had been broken and it >was never going to be the case again that a king could order parliament >around. There is a statue of him outside parliament, right opposite >Churchill. It even gets polished sometimes. If they call our system the >mother of parliaments, Cromwell was probably its father. > If it makes you feel better, Oliver Cromwell is one of Janus's saints in my game. Yes, Janus -- Cromwell tried his best to change the existing order, and after he won he did his best to avoid becoming a monarch. It's not his fault no one had any idea how to form a government without one; becoming Lord Protector strikes me more a failure of the general political imagination than anything sinister. I think Cromwell -- who was about as upright and stiff as they come -- comes off badly compared to the dashing romanticism of the Cavaliers. But modernity and progress were pretty solidly lined up behind the Puritans, as weird as the thought might be to us down the time line. :) (This is the entirety of what I know about Cromwell IMC. I would love to come up with a plausible reason for him to be in a medium sized North Carolina town, rather than in say London, but I can't think of one and without it can't justify the work it would take to develop him.) >Also, John Milton (ie. author of Paradise Lost et al) was Cromwell's >secretary & chief censor. He is not in the same league as Stalin (more >people died in the Stalinist purges than in the Holocaust) or Pol Pot. I knew that Milton was an active propagandist for the Roundheads, but I didn't realize that he actually had a formal position, let alone one that important. Keen. - ---- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:59:34 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> FLUFF! Turmoil in Heaven! I really hope I haven't seen this on the list before... >>Turmoil rocked Heaven this morning as allegations arose that God had had >>an affair with a former worshipper. The scandal was begun when a 21 year >>old woman, known only as Mary, claimed that she had given birth to God's >>"only son" last week in a barn in the hamlet of Bethlehem. >> >>Sources close to Mary claim that she "had loved God for a long time", that >>she was constantly talking about her relationship with God, and that she >>was "thrilled to have had his child." In a press conference this morning, >>God issued a vehement denial, saying that "No sexual relationship >>existed", and that "the facts of this story will come out in time, >>verily". >> >>Independent counsel Kenneth Beelzebub immediately filed a brief with the >>Justice department to expand his investigation to cover questions of >>whether any commandments may have been broken, and whether God had >>illegally funneled laundered money to his illegitimate child through three >>foreign operatives know only as the "Wise Men". Beelzebub has issued >>subpoenas to several angels who are rumored to have acted as go-betweens >>in the affair. >> >>Critics have pointed out that these allegations have little to do with >>the charges that Beelzebub was originally appointed to investigate, that God >>had created large-scale flooding in order to cover up evidence of a >>failed land deal. >> >>In recent months, Beelzebub's investigation has already been expanded to >>cover questions surrounding the large number of locusts that plagued God's >>political opponents in the last election, as well as to claims that the >>destruction of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah was to divert attention >>away from a scandal involving whether the giveaway of a parcel of public >>land in Promised County to a Jewish special interest group was quid pro >>quo for political contributions. >> >>If these allegations prove to be true, then this could be a huge blow to >>God's career, much of which has been spent crusading for stricter moral >>standards and harsher punishments for wrongdoers. Indeed, God recently >>outlined a "tough-on-crime" plan consisting of a series of 10 >>"Commandments", which has been introduced in Congress in a bill by Rep. >>Moses. Critics of the bill have pointed out that it lacks any provisions >>for the rehabilitation of criminals, and lawyers for the ACLU are planning >>to fight the "Name in Vain" Commandment as being an unconstitutional >>restriction on free speech. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:27:14 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> WW2 At 2:49 AM +0000 2/12/98, Steve Jessop wrote: >On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, bruce dykes wrote: > >> This thread and and the one on the angel of World War 2 begs the question... >> How intense was celestial involvement? Just consider these points: >> ... >> Goebbells is most certainly a Bal of Nybbas, and certainly a duke by now... > >You've just hit a topic which offends me, even if I am not personally >affected. I expect it offends many others, too. >WW2 was given a pretty wide berth by White Wolf, for some very good >reasons, about which I shall now rant. >The Nazis committed the worst human atrocities in living memory, probably >in history. Many of the guilty parties have been convicted, and rightly >reviled, for their actions. If we start pretending that the humans >involved are not wholly responsible, that there was some supernatural >agencies behind it all, then we are obscuring, in a tiny way, that which >should be plain and open for everyone to see, and detest. And, importantly from certain statements in the game... Humans do horrible things. Humans are capable of acts of evil that leave even Balseraphs and Shedim with their jaws hanging open and taking little mental notes. Humans, at their peaks and valleys, are better and worse than angels and demons (respectively). I think the "official" take on WWII is that humans did it to themselves almost entirely. Certainly celestials flocked to certain areas and tried to help or hinder situations, as their natures and agendas dictated. But Hitler was *human*. Most (probably all) of the people around him, especially the ones who did the ordering, were also human and not even Shedite possessed. (Those frustrated Malakim probably made *sure* of that.) You might have had some "bug under the table" from the Game, getting information. Or maybe not. Baal and Saminga would *like* to take credit for what went on. They can't. Malphas probably proclaims it to be one of his greatest triumphs. He's lying. If there were any celestial involvement, it would all be behind the scenes. Were people summoning up demons? If so, then there were probably angels *there*, trying to mess with *that*. Was there a Vapulan plot to give the secret of the Bomb to the Nazis? Then there were Jeanites trying to foil it. But where humans moved on their own, angels stood back and wept while the demons laughed and cheered. In some isolated areas, maybe a Shedite urged an atrocity, and maybe an angel saved someone -- but these were exceptions. The humans went and committed atrocities on their own, or acts of kindness. The humans won and lost on their own. Fates and destinies were met because of human free will. Because, easy as it is to lose track of it, the point of the War is about humans and their Free Will. 99% of the people you know in history and the news are human. (Michaelangelo is one of the few probable exceptions.) And, so long as I'm LE, I'll turn a beady eye to any text that says different. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:15:07 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Fiat Justitia At 12:03 AM -0500 2/12/98, Eslin wrote: >On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 gantr@NKU.EDU wrote: >> If that's the title of your campaign, and it doesn't revolve around >> Dominic, what is it about? If you don't mind me asking. http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~maya/nomine/fiat.html And I read each installment with great interest. I like these people... > Currently, though, it seems to be about an opera; about violins; >about Judgment and the Game and the blurring boundaries between; about >cooperation, love, justice, second chances, and a really really nice bar. (Darn it, Maya, do you just *attract* eloquent people who come up with these quotable turns of phrase? I am *jealous*!) At 9:07 AM -0500 2/12/98, Emily Dresner wrote: >- Em. And Maya IS faceless, drooling evil! I swear! Hm. But I've seen a picture of her, and she wasn't drooling then! Besides, she's too eloquent to be a Shedite. And she's already said that she's an angel. Who likes tattoos. And definitely has a personality. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:32:47 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Lilim and Reproduction At 1:17 AM +0000 2/12/98, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: >> Yikes. There are some people Lilith just should not... now I love >> Laurence. That's why I beat him up and put him through angst hell. >> But he just should never have any Lilim who call him 'Dad'. > >Although K.K. might dream about it from time to time... She'd do it just to watch his face. "Search your feelings, Laurence! You know it to be true! I *am* your daughter!" >> - Em, who read a Lust story elsewhere, and got grossed out totally. >> Lust + Death = Nastiness. > >Nathaniel, who just read Maya's stories. Lust + Nastiness = Shedim >Pit...*shudder*. Shedim Pit? What, is this "Hunt"? Or one of the others? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:57:35 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Another adventure seed for IN:WWII At 11:01 AM -0500 2/12/98, Brandon Quina wrote: >> Here's a weird idea for a (very mature) In Nomine game set in WWII. >> Basically, the *DIABOLICALS* are trying to stop the Axis powers, and >> the *HOST* are trying to stop the diabolicals interfere with human >> history. [...] >There was no way the Axis coulda been the good guys. The interesting thing isn't whether or not the Axis is "good" or not. Suppose Yves saw that if the Axis went down, something *worse* would happen? That taps into the "bad now, worse later?" or "bad now, but causes good later?" forks that any Destiny Servitory ought to have to face at least once. Or simply a "This is what the humans will do with their free will. The demons must not be permitted to interfere. Even though we weep." Yes, exactly. A move in the War. Something evil is happening. Lucifer grins and says, "Well, we should *stop* it." And Asmodeus smiles, because he can see Falling angels all over the place, no matter what the Host chooses -- because some will want to interfere (which is, essentially, taking the path the demons did -- messing with human free will) and some will hear the orders not to interfere and wonder how this puts them on any sort of moral high ground... >World War II brought the united states together. Everybody was >in the war effort. You turned 18, you joined the armed forces. See? Good. Maybe. Depending on your view. (Me, I wouldn't run such a seed myself. I wouldn't trust myself to be able to give it the *horror* that such a game would *require*.) In Nomine Walking On Knives -- when you make your angels have to choose the lesser of two evils, and they aren't ever sure they made the right choice... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:14:25 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Elohim "Hart, Joanna" wrote: > Do non-dissonant Elohim actually have personalities? Like if you left your > Elohim in a bar with a few others and went to pick it up later, how long > would it take before you realised you had got the wrong one? Well, in *our* games (and fiction...) Elohim have their own personalities. Admittedly, they tend to be mostly dictated by their Archangel's Word and the task that they're set at the moment... But there are some subjectivities that are permitted -- those which do not influence the Symphony for the Elohite's [selfish] desires. So if they have a choice of what color undies to wear, and have absolutely no ulterior motives for picking red over blue over white, they can pick whatever color they want. I have a fictional Elohite who detests anchovies on pizza. She holds this subjective view quite deliberately, because she's of the Wind and it makes Judgment triads wince, and that's promoting the opening of closed minds (in her well-considered opinion). "I don't like them on pizza. They sound like an invention of Haagenti's. Fish should be in water. Yes, if there were a good reason, I'd eat them with every evidence of enjoyment -- unless the person across the table was an Elohite, of course -- but if there's not a good reason, I'd prefer pepperoni. And not from Domino's. Pizza Hut is okay. The stuffed crust pizza is interesting. No, I'm not dissonant. Do you have trouble believing that? Perhaps you have some preconcieved notions about my Choir. Isn't pre-judging people dangerous for you?" Of course, at least 75% of all Judgment Elohim *are* interchangeable, and 90% of the Elohim of the Sword.... But it's their *function* to be cogs in a greater wheel, so one doesn't really know if they'd develop a personality in other circumstances or not... And if it serves the Symphony for them to have a personality, then, well... I love the little ruthless space aliens. At 7:41 PM +0000 2/12/98, Jo Hart wrote: >At 08:30 12/02/98 -0500, Em wrote: >> >>> Do non-dissonant Elohim actually have personalities? Like if you left your >>> Elohim in a bar with a few others and went to pick it up later, how long >>> would it take before you realised you had got the wrong one? >> >>I'm all for stickly labels for indentification purposes. And whatever >>you do, don't let them all dress the same, or you'll be really confused. > >Maybe tattoos? ;) Bar codes. Definitely bar codes. I now have the image of a Fallen Elohite of Trade covered in bar codes. This is *all* your fault. At 12:57 PM -0800 2/12/98, Querent wrote: >They have to remain objective. They can't play hunches, they can't go >with gut feelings, they can't do something out of guilt... Actually, I'd suspect that they can play a hunch if they don't have anything *better* to go on. "I have a gut feeling that this situation is going to turn out [x]. Fascinating. I wonder why I feel that way? Hm. Perhaps it is some aspect of [y] that I noted but did not view in the correct way. I must gather more data on this, so that I may act based on objective information." So long as the hunch is on how to make the Symphony run more smoothly, then they're probably okay. But walking on the edge, oh, yes, walking on the edge! >It's easier for some to take a detached position. So be it. But >there's no reason an Elohite can't enjoy his feelings, and do so >passionately. He's just not ever allowed to let his feelings out of >strict control. Bingo. He may enjoy things (so long as that's not the only reason he's doing it), and even display that enjoyment (so long as it is not to manipulate someone to his own [selfish] desires). At 9:30 PM +0000 2/12/98, Jo Hart wrote: >At 12:57 12/02/98 -0800, you wrote: >> >>If he dresses like this when his best chance of success is to play the >>religious right, he's asking for it. If however he needs to win the >>admiration of pot smokers at the local high school to keep them out of >>trouble, listen for Bob Marley tunes coming from his beat up car. > >So how can you tell if you did pick up the right Elohim from the bar?? Put >in the same situation, they'd all do the same thing. Probably in the same way. Actually, they might not. They would do what they saw to serve the Symphony best -- and it is *not* dissonant for an Elohite to see this through the filter of his Archangel's Word. So an Elohite of Michael would pound a demon, an Elohite of Flowers would try to talk to it first, an Elohite of Judgment would take notes on who was pounding the demon and who was talking to it... And an Elohite of Destiny would try to do the Wheel of Confusion thing. But you might have trouble telling an Elohite of Trade and one of Lightning apart in that situation. Except the Lightning Power might have some techie stuff to contribute to the general mayhem and will yell for Jean if things get out of hand. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 00:39:02 GMT From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: Re: IN> Fiat Justitia >>> If that's the title of your campaign, and it doesn't revolve around >>> Dominic, what is it about? If you don't mind me asking. > >http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~maya/nomine/fiat.html > >And I read each installment with great interest. I like these people... They are cool people. They have also just been joined by a Mercurian of Novalis, who runs a coffee-shop. I wait with great interest to see how she will affect the mess... er, melange. >> Currently, though, it seems to be about an opera; about violins; >>about Judgment and the Game and the blurring boundaries between; about >>cooperation, love, justice, second chances, and a really really nice bar. > >(Darn it, Maya, do you just *attract* eloquent people who come up >with these quotable turns of phrase? I am *jealous*!) (looks happy) They're cool people. All of them. And a lot of them play Amber. And create. And write well. I'm fortunate. Now I will persecute them cruelly and mercilessly. >>- Em. And Maya IS faceless, drooling evil! I swear! > >Hm. But I've seen a picture of her, and she wasn't drooling then! >Besides, she's too eloquent to be a Shedite. >And she's already said that she's an angel. >Who likes tattoos. >And definitely has a personality. Elohim do so have personalities. Just ask Caliah. Unless they _want_ you to think that they're interchangeable bald Barbie dolls, so they can take advantage of your underestimation of them... - --- Maya, Elohim of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:38:48 -0600 (CST) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: IN> Re: >>Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:16:01 -0000 >>From: "Hart, Joanna" >>Subject: Re: IN> WW2 >> >> >>I have no idea why Cromwell gets so demonised -- he was a great leader who >>stood up for what he believed in and defended the right of parliament to be >>able to make its own decisions independent of what any tyrannical monarch >>who claimed divine right had to say about it. And he later turned around and dissolved the Parliament and ruled more tyrranically than Charles I ever did. Charles I once stormed into >>the parliament chamber with armed guards and dragged some of the members off Cromwell closed all theatres, forbade the celebration of Christmas, and established ornerous moral and religious laws which were strictly, and cruelly on occasion, enforced. >>Even after the restoration the back of the Monarchy had been broken and it >>was never going to be the case again that a king could order parliament >>around. There is a statue of him outside parliament, right opposite >>Churchill. It even gets polished sometimes. If they call our system the >>mother of parliaments, Cromwell was probably its father. Then it was a bastard birth. Cromwell presided over a rump Parliament, which stood without election throughout the Commonwealth (or at least until the rump Parliament's dissolution in 1654), and from there until his death in 1660 he ruled as Lord Protector and sole lawmaking power in the land. His Puritanical laws and tyrrany, and taxes levied to fight the Scots and Dutch, and the chaos following his death when his son failed to show the same iron-handed rule, all led to the Restoration of Charles II. When Charles II returned, so did the same level of Divine-Right power that his father exercised (and over-exercised). True Parliamentary superiority was not established until nearly thirty years later, when in the Glorious Revolution of 1688 the Parliament rid themselves of James II in favor of William III and Mary Orange of the Netherlands. Bear in mind, Cromwell was not power-mad himself; he simply believed so much in Puritanism that he felt justified in imposing it on all of England whether the people wanted it or not. Redneck Kris Overstreet, web pages beyond belief http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck - Redneck Gaijin Online http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ - White Lightning Productions http://www.antarctic-press.com/ - Antarctic Press Web Site http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/acupunct/ - Anatomical Acupuncture http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/dvpbem/ - In Nomine: Dark Victory PBEM http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/milkmaid/ - The Magnificent Milkmaid ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #625 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.