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in_nomine-digest       Monday, February 16 1998       Volume 01 : Number 631



In this digest:

   Re: IN> WW2
   Re: IN> Is there and In Nomine APA?
   IN> APG Angels
   Re: IN> APG Angels
   Re: IN> APG Angels
   Re: IN> Oliver Cromwell & In Nomine
   Re: IN> Hitler, a latter day Job
   IN> Screwing characters
   Re: IN> Re: IN- Starting With Angelic Discord?
   Re: IN> Dolph Lundgren
   Re: IN> Hitler, a latter day Job
   Re: IN> Hitler, a latter day Job
   Re: IN> Hitler, a latter day Job
   Re: IN> Hitler, a latter day Job
   Re: IN> Is there and In Nomine APA?
   IN> Nothing like starting the campaign...
   Re: IN> Is there and In Nomine APA?
   Re: IN> Nothing like starting the campaign...
   Re: IN> IPG
   Re: IN> Nothing like starting the campaign...
   Re: IN> Starting With Angelic Discord?
   Re: IN> Is there and In Nomine APA?
   Re: IN> Re: IN- Starting With Angelic Discord?
   Re: IN> Graphics
   Re: IN> Oliver Cromwell & In Nomine
   Re: IN> Maya Fan Club (Re: Lilim and Reproduction)
   Re: IN> Maya Fan Club (Re: Lilim and Reproduction)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 14:57:41 +0000 (GMT)
From: Kevin Walsh <hjalkar@RedBrick.DCU.IE>
Subject: Re: IN> WW2

> <rant>
> I have no idea why Cromwell gets so demonised -- he was a great leader who
> stood up for what he believed in and defended the right of parliament to be
> able to make its own decisions independent of what any tyrannical monarch
> who claimed divine right had to say about it.

And then turned around and set himself up as a dictator.

> 
> Also, John Milton (ie. author of Paradise Lost et al) was Cromwell's
> secretary & chief censor. He is not in the same league as Stalin (more
> people died in the Stalinist purges than in the Holocaust) or Pol Pot.
> 

I don't think anyone suggested that he was in the same league as Hitler.
But he is (IMO, justifiably) unpopular in Ireland, for a variety of
reasons, most significantly the massacre of the population of Dundalk, and
the mass deportation of Catholics under pain of death. By moving large
parts of the population to the parts of the country least able to support
it, and establishing the "Protestant Ascendancy", he did much to set the
scene for the various famines which afflicted Ireland up until the 1850s,
including the one that reduced the population of the country by some 2
million just before then.

I have no doubt that his actions were beneficial to England, but they were
not beneficial to Ireland, so it is hardly surprising that Irish people
should be unimpressed by him. In addition, there are the effects of folk
memory, which may distort our image of him. I haven't forgotten hearing
how he allegedly described the Burren solely by the inconvenient lack of
facilities for the purpose of execution, no matter how untrue that
attribution is.

> (Now scrabbling for something on-topic to say)
> 
> Do non-dissonant Elohim actually have personalities? 

Yes.

Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 09:25:54 -0600
From: "S. Dickie" <sdickie@pcpartner.net>
Subject: Re: IN> Is there and In Nomine APA?

>Well, I'm of two minds.  On the one hand, an APA would be nice, and
>I'd love to participate.  OTOH, given that most of the people are
>going to be part of in-nomine-l anyway, is it worth the extra
>trouble?  Much of the GURPS APA is available on the web these days
>anyway; the remaining people simply don't have web access to put it
>there.  The main advantage is having a nice hard-copy available,
>AFAICT.

I had another thought about this last night. How about having it in PDF
fromat and e-mailed out rather than snail mailing a hard copy? That way
each participant could have their sections formated the way they wanted
with the graphics they want and  everybody could make their own hard copy
if they wanted one. This would make the cost almost nothing.

steve

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 15:01:15 +0000
From: Julian Breen <jules@bigjules.demon.co.uk>
Subject: IN> APG Angels

Just a couple of questions that have aroused my curiosity...

In the APG, Metatron, a seraph, is listed as the first Archangel to be
killed by Lucifer. Any clue as to his _canon_ Word?

Similarly, Camael was the first elohite to Fall. Did he have a Word?
Does he now? Whom does he serve?

Much obliged,
- -- 
Jules - Demon of Skating on Thin Ice
jules@bigjules.demon.co.uk

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 11:08:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Emily Dresner <zenith@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: IN> APG Angels

> Just a couple of questions that have aroused my curiosity...
> 
> In the APG, Metatron, a seraph, is listed as the first Archangel to be
> killed by Lucifer. Any clue as to his _canon_ Word?

Wow.  Lucifer killed God.  He didn't even wait for Niestzche to do it.
I'm impressed.

(Yeah, I still don't have the APG...)

- - Em

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 17:57:54 +0100 (MET)
From: David Skogsberg <d97skog@dtek.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: IN> APG Angels

On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, Emily Dresner wrote:

> > Just a couple of questions that have aroused my curiosity...

> > In the APG, Metatron, a seraph, is listed as the first Archangel to be
> > killed by Lucifer. Any clue as to his _canon_ Word?
>
> Wow.  Lucifer killed God.  He didn't even wait for Niestzche to do it.
> I'm impressed.

Well, technically and IIRC, Metatron is the *Voice* of God. Sort of
like the Voice of Sauron from _The Return of the King_, but with more
style.

cd
- --
d97skog@dtek.chalmers.se | cd skogsberg

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 17:29:35 +0000 (GMT)
From: Kevin Walsh <hjalkar@RedBrick.DCU.IE>
Subject: Re: IN> Oliver Cromwell & In Nomine

 But he does have a lingering nasty
> reputation over the whole "Nits make lice" thing; the Irish certainly had
> reason to feel about him about the same way Jews felt about Hitler. Proof,
> IMO, that Cromwell was very much a human being, doing acts of great good
> along with acts of great evil.
> 
Actually, IIRC, "Nits make lice" was one of the slogans of the Geraldine
War, which was almost a century earlier, in the reign of Good Queen Bess.
The Cromwellian equivalent slogan was "To Hell or Connaught".

Elizabeth instituted genocide. Cromwell merely instituted mass
deportations, with the occasional local massacre.

Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 18:08:42 +0000 (GMT)
From: Kevin Walsh <hjalkar@RedBrick.DCU.IE>
Subject: Re: IN> Hitler, a latter day Job

> 
> What makes people so content to believe that all angels were opposing
> Hitler anyway?
> 
> If David supports skinheads, why not Nazis?  Although their methods
> were atrocious, Marc might be impressed with the smooth efficiency of
> Nazi Germany. 

So efficient that a factory owner whose products were of immense effort to
the war industry was allowed to wait around for years making dud shells.
So efficient that scarce resources were diverted from the army and the war
effort for the vital task of eliminating citizens who, under a different
regime, might be expected to be patriotic.

 The Archangel of the Sword may be interested enough in
> cutting away non-Christian heresy that he might not move as swiftly as
> he should. 

And Hitler promoted Christianity so assiduously. And there wouldn't have
been a mini-revolt in the Halls of Worship at the thought. And Laurence
must have been thrilled to bits at the treatment meted out to the Russian
and Serbian people, to mention the most prominent sufferers from the
German war effort, as opposed to the Holocaust. Working prisoners to
death. How noble and honourable.

 It's widely known that although he instigated monstrous
> acts of inhumane suffering, he was a strong advocate against cruelty
> to animals.  Would purging the world of "impure" people and promoting
> animal welfare be raising a lot of alarms in Jordi's ranks? 

Hmm...that makes a bizarre sort of sense.

 So long
> as Hitler gains power and influence, more and more "good" people put
> down their plowshares and pick up guns to "fight for right"...hardly a
> position Michael would shirk away from.  

Michael would have cried at the stupidity which informed the idea not to
allow the Vlasov units their own command structure. Though looking at the
dissonance rules, a lot of Hitler's orders suddenly make sense. 

Yves' wisdom would teach him
> that the heart of hope and motivation is forged in the fires of pain
> and fear.
> 

The Yves as a Habbalite of Nightmares theory. I like it. And I'm not being
sarcastic, really. 

> It's important to remember that Archangels are just as politicly
> motivated as any mortal, perhaps more so.  They seek to enforce God's
> will, and their word, in the Symphony.  God's not around for an
> interview, leaving their word a primary motivator.
> 
Therefore they support an empire founded upon stupidity, hatred, and
further stupidity and hatred. Marvellous.

Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 18:38:14 +0000 (GMT)
From: Kevin Walsh <hjalkar@RedBrick.DCU.IE>
Subject: IN> Screwing characters

> 
> > One thing to keep in mind about the Kabbalah is that none of it is
> > to be taken literally.  (A big hint to you Golden Dawners out
> > there.)  To take it as anything more then symbolism is to walk a
> > tight rope over that evil concept of idolatry.
> 
> Which is *exactly* where my Kabbalic sorcerer character may be 
> headed, if he ain't careful.  Of course, he follows my first rule of 
> character creation[1] so he's going to be a hoot to play anyway.
> 
> [1] "Screw yourself over, so the GM doesn't feel obligated to."
> 
I present my as yet unplayed Renegade Elohite, with 5 Will and the
Murderous Discord. "Don't annoy me, I have a temper" is almost certainly
going to become her tagline. She has lots of other Discord too, and needs
her Area Knowledge to stay out of the rain.

Starting off with enough Bound Discord that you can't ever achieve
Celestial form is also fun.

My Seraph of the Wind has the sort of flaws they don't give you character
points for, like being in disfavour with your Superior, having been
subjected to repeated investigations by Dominic's lads, and a fallen
boyfriend. No, I haven't played her even once.

My Habbalite of Death has Berserk and a Vulnerability to blood. Any sort
of blood.

My Sorceror's Dad is a Pachadite. I don't think I need say any more.

My Tremere in Ars Magica had negative charisma, the Infamous Master,
Discredited Lineage, and almost the Judged Unfairly flaw. Then I removed
JU on the grounds that I didn't want him to be dead quite as soon as a
Quaesitor showed up, more like a few weeks afterwards.

My Orphan Mage in M:TA, in addition to the problems I mentioned earlier,
has the Throwback flaw for 3 pts, ie, one of his past lives is sitting in
his head, being annoying. For added fun, I made it a Flambeau Mage. (Sort
of like Servitors of Belial.) And he reckons his Avatar is part of some
sort of mind-control effect, so he's going to have lots of fun. And then I
put it in his background that the NWO knew of his existence and wanted him
dead, not just reeducated.

My metis Stargazer hangs around Fianna, which is a bad thing in itself for
metis to do, but he doesn't have much choice about it. Oh, and he has a
bad Reputation among the elders of his sept.

My Wraith Vampire Hunter, in addition to despising almost every Heretic
group he's seen, being a devout Catholic, is morally opposed to the soul
trade. And he feels an irresistible compulsion to hunt Spectres without
benefit of such Arcanoi as Moliate.

Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia.
(One more push and it'll be under my Word.)

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 18:44:41 +0000 (GMT)
From: Kevin Walsh <hjalkar@RedBrick.DCU.IE>
Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Starting With Angelic Discord?

> 
> Here's a question for the rest of the list: Can a Calabim choose a 
> discord at character creation, gain another discord through play and 
> then get rid of the *first* discord, yet still keep his resonance?
> 
> SurturZ
> Dissonant Elohite of Stone
> 
I assumed that the form of the Discord was fixed in Stone (if you'll
pardon the expression), so that any other Discord was simply a bonus.
Lots of fun when your Calabite Discord is Vulnerability, Aura, or a
Celestial Discord.

Vulnerability might be disallowed on the grounds that it's inherently
dissonant for Calabim. Maybe their Forces would split apart if it was
absolutely intrinsic to their nature, or maybe not.

Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 13:44:10 -0500
From: Sean Michael Whipkey <smw4s@virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: IN> Dolph Lundgren

At 21:48 -0500 2/14/98, Neel Krishnaswami wrote:
>D'oh! I should have known that -- not only do I enjoy cheesy action
>flicks, but Dolph Lundgren is an alum of MIT. (I found this out

He was also in "Johnny Mnemonic" (damn, I can't spell today), which, even
though it was a travesty of the William Gibson short story, had a great
character to port over to In Nomine - namely, Dolph's character (whose name
I can't remember).

He was a great Haballah - he thought he was this really religious type guy,
but was actually an assassin who dressed as a monk and had cross-shaped
knives.  The seen where he stood in front of the van flying down the road
(with Henry Rollins, Keanu Reeves, and some woman in it) and yelled, "HALT,
SINNERS!" cracked me up.

Er.  Back to plotting fiendishly for that "A Bigger Hammer" scenario.  Teehee!

SeanMike
glad now that he has an Ofanim of Jean in his party


- --
Sean Michael Whipkey, smw4s@virginia.edu
Weldon Cooper Center for Public Service, Publications Div.
804/924-4185 (or -4188) voicenet, 804/982-5536 fax
http://www.virginia.edu/~cpserv/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 13:45:45 -0500
From: Frank Lazar <fmlazar@cyber-wizard.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Hitler, a latter day Job

>>
>> If David supports skinheads, why not Nazis?  Although their methods
>> were atrocious, Marc might be impressed with the smooth efficiency of
>> Nazi Germany.
>
>So efficient that a factory owner whose products were of immense effort to
>the war industry was allowed to wait around for years making dud shells.
>So efficient that scarce resources were diverted from the army and the war
>effort for the vital task of eliminating citizens who, under a different
>regime, might be expected to be patriotic.
>
>
  Much of the myth of Nazi efficency and competence I suspect came from the
fact that the majority of the other countries on the scene of the period,
France, England, and the U.S. were clumsier schmucks in dealing with the
post World War One fallout.   The Hitler's field tests in the Spanish Civil
War was a wakeup call that in this country was only heeded by "leftists,
liberals, and pinko communists" whose valiant if unsuccessful attempt to
stave the tide of dictatorship is still largely unacknowledged today.


- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
|                                                         _           |
| We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers.          /_\          |
| We study the mysteries of laser and circuit,          // \\         |
| Crystal and scanner, holographic demons,     \\      //___\\        |
| And invocations of equations.                 \\    //     \\       |
|                                                \\__//       \\      |
| These are the tools we employ.   And we know... many things. \\     |
|                                                               \\    |
|       | Frank Lazar  http://www.interactive.net/~fmlazar |     \\   |
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:09:01 +0000
From: Jo Hart <jhart@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Hitler, a latter day Job

At 18:08 16/02/98 +0000, you wrote:
>> 
>> What makes people so content to believe that all angels were opposing
>> Hitler anyway?
>> 
>> If David supports skinheads, why not Nazis?  

(OK, I know I said I wasn't going to carry on with this topic. I lied.)

Here's a thought for a rather dark game. One of the Nazi high command is
actually a dissonant Elohim of David. It was sent into Germany after the
disasterous treaty of Versailles and subsequent economic collapse with
orders to try to help the German people pull themselves together and build
a better future for themselves, putting aside the past. Its involvement
with the early fascist movement was based on objective observations, and a
total lack of understanding of the depth of the political situation.

Then suddenly everything erupted around it, the politics got screwed to
hell and back, Hitler stormed into power and... it couldn't get out.
Burdened with the requirement not to be judgemental, it is the only angel
with a high level role within the Nazi power structure. Although its
superior is sympathetic, it is likely to be vital that the angel sustains
this role without falling for the duration of the war, so that the angelic
forces have some political leverage when the time is right. It knows there
are demons around but has been ordered to sustain its role /at all costs/.
It is an Elohite but those costs are looking awfully high... every time it
has tried to intervene to save any mortals, it has been picking up dissonance.

The PC (angels) get some strange missions which require helping to hunt
down members of the French resistance so that the Elohite is forced to have
them tried and executed. What they don't realise is that the purpose of the
missions is to give evidence to the Elohite of the brave efforts and
heroics to which some people have been driven by the war -- and to try to
subtly help an angel which is dancing on the very edge of a knifeblade to
hang on for just a little bit longer.

(If you want to play darker, maybe David really is studying Nazi methods
with a lot of interests. Nothing like picking out some scapegoat to
generate a warm together kind of feeling in everyone else...)



jo
- ----------
"I like getting into hot water, it keeps me clean."
G. K. Chesterton


jhart@btinternet.com --   http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~jhart/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:40:46 +0000 (GMT)
From: Kevin Walsh <hjalkar@RedBrick.DCU.IE>
Subject: Re: IN> Hitler, a latter day Job

> 
> At 18:08 16/02/98 +0000, you wrote:
> >> 
> >> What makes people so content to believe that all angels were opposing
> >> Hitler anyway?
> >> 
> >> If David supports skinheads, why not Nazis?  
> 
> (OK, I know I said I wasn't going to carry on with this topic. I lied.)
> 
You didn't lie! You changed your mind because the coolness of the idea
that struck you invalidated your previous reasons for opposing the idea
of posting on this topic. You're never going to be a Balseraph with that
attitude.

(And you're a sick person.)

Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 15:19:29 -0500
From: Jesse <jrooney@moose.uvm.edu>
Subject: Re: IN> Hitler, a latter day Job

>> It's important to remember that Archangels are just as politicly
>> motivated as any mortal, perhaps more so.  They seek to enforce God's
>> will, and their word, in the Symphony.  God's not around for an
>> interview, leaving their word a primary motivator.

Well not all Archangels are politically motivated.  Politics and 
religious issues might have stopped Lauerence and Michael from killing
Hitler, but how would that have stopped Christopher, Gabriel or Janus
from killing Hitler.  Gabby's Seraphim and Kyrios would have been all
over Hitler and Janus would have taken the opportunity to promote a
change in the German political system, removing Hitler.  Christopher
would have wanted to get rid of Hitler and the Nazi system as a whole
for what they did to his kids.

- -Jesse

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 15:44:05 +0000
From: Nathaniel Eliot <temujin9@mci2000.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Is there and In Nomine APA?

> >Well, I'm of two minds.  On the one hand, an APA would be nice, and
> >I'd love to participate.  OTOH, given that most of the people are
> >going to be part of in-nomine-l anyway, is it worth the extra
> >trouble?  Much of the GURPS APA is available on the web these days
> >anyway; the remaining people simply don't have web access to put it
> >there.  The main advantage is having a nice hard-copy available,
> >AFAICT.
> 
> I had another thought about this last night. How about having it in
> PDF fromat and e-mailed out rather than snail mailing a hard copy?
> That way each participant could have their sections formated the way
> they wanted with the graphics they want and  everybody could make
> their own hard copy if they wanted one. This would make the cost
> almost nothing.

Except for the cost of Adobe Acrobat ($255 last time I looked).  If 
you have it, great, but otherwise making PDF documents could be a bit 
tough...


Nathaniel Eliot
temujin9@mci2000.com

"It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or
a star in Hell.  But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell.  On 
a good day, it can look like LA."
     - Playing God

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 15:48:17 -0500
From: Sean Michael Whipkey <smw4s@virginia.edu>
Subject: IN> Nothing like starting the campaign...

Well,

I finally started the In Nomine campaign that I've been trying to start
since last summer.<grin>

We have four characters; an Ofanim of Jean (Twitch), a Cherub of Janus
(Roz), a Mercurian of Marc (Christian), and a Malakim of Eli/Bartender
(Andrew).

Jean, Janus, and Marc told them to meet Andrew at the bar he works at.  It
seems there's been a lot of disturbance in VA lately, and a lot of
servitors have gone missing.  Some are in trauma up in Heaven - others are
just gone (including one Malakim of Janus).  They're supposed to keep an
eye open for 'em, while helping out in general.

Roz has some Discord - deafness/3 - due to her first mission to Earth,
where she screwed up.  She didn't completely screw up, though, so she's
getting a second chance, though Janus is leaving the damage she took to her
vessel when a car exploded.  Twitch has a bit of an Aura problem, which he
gained over in the Silicon Valley.  He let the computer chips get stolen
from him by demons, so Jean wasn't exactly in the mood to take it away.

While they're getting acquainted, a Calabim (also with an Aura problem) and
a Lilim come into the bar.  The Calabim notices Twitch is celestial, and
starts to annoy him and Andrew by being a nuisance and ordering lots of
whiskey.

The Lilim tries to Geas Roz, but fails.  It's hard to proposition someone
when they can't hear you.

In my game, if an angel (or a demon) touches his counterpart (i.e., an
Ofanim and a Calabim) they get a Perception roll to see if they recognize
it as that Band/Choir - this is due to the nature of Falling, blah blah
blah, and for how much a Choir tends to hate its Fallen counterpart.
Twitch touched Spike (the Calabim) and realized he was a Calabim.

Finally, the Calabim stalks off.  My goal was for him to pick a fight, get
beat up some, then escape, leading to a chase that would get them all to
UVA, where they'd negotiate with the ArchDean (UVA is a very heavily
modified IOU) to get them on the right trail.  Of course, it didn't work
that way.

Marc used his resonance on them, and found out their relationship -
business.  He found out a good bit about Spike, too.

Roz flung a shot glass that Spike had broken at him when his back was
turned.  He'd been about to turn around to insult Andrew, so I gave him a
Perception roll to see if he could tell where it came from, and rolled a
111.

He took the glass full to the eyes, and fell to the ground yelling.

Christian tried to calm him down by Fast-talking him, and managed to keep
him distracted for a round.  Then, as Roz and Andrew closed in on him,
Spike used his resonance on Christian, doing lots of damage and burning up
his clothes.

Andrew whacked him with a beer mug.  Roz whipped out a highlevel Numinous
Corpus: Tongue and started doing Mind hits to him.  (Hey, he's a Calabite!
How smart can he be?)  He eventually threw a Song of Thunder, doing loads
of damage in the crowded bar, but Roz wasn't affected and knocked him
unconscious.

Meanwhile, the Lilim had jumped on Twitch.  Twitch threw her off and used
the Celestial Song of Light on her, but failed.  She responded with some
punches and the Ethereal song of Entropy (right before the song of
thunder), but failed too.  After the thunder (which she managed to avoid
the effects of), she ran, trying to grab the unconscious Calabim with her.
Roz tackled her, and used the tongue physically to knock her unconscious.

After searching the Calabite's pockets, Andrew took the body to a quiet
alley and killed it, sending poor Spike back to Hell and Trauma.  Twitch
and Roz used the opportunity to take the Lilim to UVA, hoping to confine
her there with help from the ArchDean and get info from her.  One of the
ArchDean's Malakim met them at the wall, and they met with her.  She agreed
to help 'em in exchange for a Geas/3.

Meanwhile, after finishing up Spike, Andrew and Christian wandered off
towards UVA (Twitch and Roz had told them they were heading there).  On the
way, a beggar came up to them.  When they each gave him money, he revealed
himself to be Eli.  He told them that he wanted them to meet the ArchDean,
accept whatever Geas she gave them, and work for her to find out what was
going on here.  He healed Christian's chest completely, though he did find
his nice suit transmogrified into tie-dye.  Christian wanted his $20 back
when he found out the beggar was Eli, but kept his mouth shut, and just
used his "Head of a PIN" on an ATM to get a couple hundred dollars.

They made it to UVA and met the Malakim on duty, then met the ArchDean and
accepted a Geas/3.  After recharging on Essence and getting a little bit
more familiar with Virginia (this is all of theirs first time here, except
for Andrew), they'll start their next mission - Feast of Blades, set in
Richmond.

I'm trying to convince Twitch to accept the Geas/6 in exchange for the
ArchDean's removing his Discord; it'll make things easier in the airport.
Otherwise, there will probably be a running brawl between Huzrael's pack of
Impies and the PCs on the way to the crash site...but if that's what they
want...

Of course, I just realized the Cherub has Swipe, and could smuggle a 9mm
into the airport...that'd be interesting...

SeanMike

- --
Sean Michael Whipkey, smw4s@virginia.edu
Weldon Cooper Center for Public Service, Publications Div.
804/924-4185 (or -4188) voicenet, 804/982-5536 fax
http://www.virginia.edu/~cpserv/

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 16:02:01 -0600
From: "S. Dickie" <sdickie@pcpartner.net>
Subject: Re: IN> Is there and In Nomine APA?

>Except for the cost of Adobe Acrobat ($255 last time I looked).  If
>you have it, great, but otherwise making PDF documents could be a bit
>tough...

I have access to PageMaker 6.5 that can save documents in PDF format.

steve
MiB 7734

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 22:00:26 +0000 (GMT)
From: Kevin Walsh <hjalkar@RedBrick.DCU.IE>
Subject: Re: IN> Nothing like starting the campaign...

> 
> Andrew whacked him with a beer mug.  Roz whipped out a highlevel Numinous
> Corpus: Tongue and started doing Mind hits to him.  (Hey, he's a Calabite!
> How smart can he be?)  

I resent that stereotype profoundly. My smartest character (and the first 
one I ever made), with an intelligence of 9, is a Calabite. He's
profoundly nasty in a way that is usually only achieved by humans or
Shedim. And the Force I docked to pay for that was Corporeal.

I've made two other Calabim, another of whom has only two Corporeal
Forces. Both of those have Intelligence 5, on the grounds that Precision
would be important to them. 

Smart Calabim are really cool, because your players don't expect them, and
neither do those of your NPCs who don't know them. They can be really
manipulative without anyone suspecting. Charlie from a Dark Dream was a
perfect example. Think of all the stuff he learned that he would never
have found out if Marcus had thought of him as anything more than someone
he could call for backup. Imagine what he can do with that knowledge one
day. 

Overall, my non-combat characters tend to trade in the 7-8 Intelligence
range, and combat characters in the 5-6 range. None of my characters have
4 Corporeal Forces, and quite a large number of them have sacrificed
Corporeal Forces for Celestial. I have a grand total of 1 character with 2
Ethereal Forces, and 3 with 4 Ethereal Forces, including the
aforementioned Calabite.

Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 17:34:44 -0500
From: Elizabeth McCoy <emccoy@nh.ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: IN> IPG

At 1:52 AM -0600 2/16/98, MadLocks wrote:
>        Does anybody have any idea when the Infernal Players Guide is
>supposed to come out?

Soon. Hopefully.  It's In Production.  And it will hopefully be *very*
good. (*I* already think it's good... With art -- yum!)  The Liber
Reliquarum will be out first, though, IIRC.

- --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com  In Nomine Line Editor
GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 18:48:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Highway Star <smw4s@unix.mail.virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: IN> Nothing like starting the campaign...

Bad Dan!  Go away from this post!:)

According to Kevin Walsh:
> I resent that stereotype profoundly. My smartest character (and the first 

Hey, it was my player making the stereotype!:)

He was amazed at the number of mind hits the Calabite took.  Of
course, it had 24 - it had 72 body points, so Mind Hits were
the way to go in this case.

Actually, the Calabite was from NM - the demon of Amps.  I just
mooched his stats for the "oh shit I didn't expect them to want
to do this today" type deal.:)

SeanMike

- -- 
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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:00:49 -0500
From: Elizabeth McCoy <emccoy@nh.ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Starting With Angelic Discord?

At 11:08 AM -0600 2/15/98, S. Dickie wrote:
>Howdy,
>
>I'm new to this list and I'm sure I'll ask many stupid or inane questions,
>so please bare with me.

Hey, we're not *that* kind of list! PG-13 only, please! O;>

>In the character creation section in the main rule book (p.49) it seems to
>imply Discord is something common to take to get more character points 

<wabbles hand> It depends on the GM, the campaign, and the characters.
Calabim, Renegades and Outcasts can get points for their starting
Discord. (Free Lilim do not, because it's *too* much for that, and
because it's their version of a "Superior" to order them around --
and other PCs don't have to pay for a Superior.)

> do the different types of
>discord mean different things? Is celestial discord worse that coporeal? 

Yes, in that you don't get Essence if you have too much celestial
Discord! (Or you have a hard time getting it, etc.)

>If
>so, is coporeal or ethereal discord less of a stigma than celestial discord?

Not really. Discord is usually discord -- it means you got dissonant
enough that it either converted (for demons) or you had to convert
it yourself lest you become Outcast or Fall (for angels).

Different Discords can mean different things to the character, and
some are less of a problem than others (Merciful, for a Servitor
of Flowers, for instance, is *hardly* a Discord!) -- but they all
mean that you did something naughty... 

Geases are the ones that are less "soul-staining" than the other forms.

>Another question about discord. If all discord is bad for Angels (as stated
>in the book) and for your Superior to find out about it a disaster, how do
>you get rid of it? 

You get a Superior (any Superior, Prince or Archangel) to do the deed.
Of course, the Superior most likely to do that favor for you is usually
*your* own Superior. If you've been doing a good job and he's in a good
mood.

If you get someone else to do it, expect to owe a favor (or a Geas,
if you talk to Lilith) that may be called in later...  And if
your Superior finds out you hid Discord from him and got someone
*else* to take it off, he will probably question your loyalty! 
(This can be fatal, for some Princes...)

>P.S. I'm new here, so I'll probably ask lots of questions that have been
>answered before, sorry. 

http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine -- check out the FAQ and the archives
of this list!




- --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com  In Nomine Line Editor
GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 18:56:23 +0000
From: Nathaniel Eliot <temujin9@mci2000.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Is there and In Nomine APA?

> >Except for the cost of Adobe Acrobat ($255 last time I looked).  If
> >you have it, great, but otherwise making PDF documents could be a bit
> >tough...
> 
> I have access to PageMaker 6.5 that can save documents in PDF
> format.

Okay.  What about the rest of us?

I don't mean to sound harsh, but if we have to describe the layout of 
the page to you and have you do it, it's probably easier to simply 
lay out the page ourselves on paper, and have somebody photocopy it.  
Or lay it out in HTML; it won't print exactly right, but it'll be 
close enough, usually.


Nathaniel Eliot
temujin9@mci2000.com

"It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or
a star in Hell.  But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell.  On 
a good day, it can look like LA."
     - Playing God

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:08:41 -0500
From: Elizabeth McCoy <emccoy@nh.ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Starting With Angelic Discord?

At 7:11 PM -0800 2/15/98, David Streeter wrote:
>Here's a question for the rest of the list: Can a Calabim choose a 
>discord at character creation, gain another discord through play and 
>then get rid of the *first* discord, yet still keep his resonance?

I think the IPG is going to say no to that -- the initial Discord
is a part of the Calabite...  Of course, whatever the GM wants is
what goes!  (And it's an interesting idea for swapping a Discord
that the player thinks is annoying...)


- --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com  In Nomine Line Editor
GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:06:57 -0500
From: Elizabeth McCoy <emccoy@nh.ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Graphics

At 2:00 AM +0000 2/16/98, Steve Jessop wrote:
>Apologies for a possibly-daft question, but does anyone know where I can
>get a graphic of the cross on the front of the hardback editions of IN?

<thinks> Actually, I don't know. You might want to try sjgames@io.com
or some other useful address at their website...
(poke around http://www.sjgames.com )

Be aware that the In Nomine cross is going to be, very likely, 
copyright or TM or something them, so using it for anything but
your own personal use is Not A Good Thing.


- --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com  In Nomine Line Editor
GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ 

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:18:03 -0500
From: Elizabeth McCoy <emccoy@nh.ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Oliver Cromwell & In Nomine

At 5:29 PM +0000 2/16/98, Kevin Walsh wrote:

>Elizabeth instituted genocide. [...]

Did *NOT*.

- --(Eliza)Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking, using her "taking things
out of context" Rite.  But this doesn't substitute for blood sugar.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 19:23:30 -0500
From: Elizabeth McCoy <emccoy@nh.ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: IN> Maya Fan Club (Re: Lilim and Reproduction)

At 1:46 AM +0000 2/14/98, Nathaniel Eliot wrote:
>>>> [K.K]'d do it just to watch his face. "Search your feelings, Laurence!
>>>> You know it to be true! I *am* your daughter!"
>>>I'm imagining something more like Lolita, but make of it what you 
>>>will...
>A book about a teenage girl who seduces her (step?)father. [...]
>  It also refers to the father fantasy that 
>some people find sexually attractive - an older, powerful authority 
>figure, often with the hint of naughtiness.

Ahhhhhhh. Hm. <thinks> Ewwwwwwwww.  (But mind you, my sire's a Balseraph.
If I had a Malakite daddy, I suppose that would be more interesting.
Especially if I were a Lilim. Or any sort of celestial.  Especially
Creationers.  Our Creationers have no problem partying with "Daddy Eli"...
Even the ones who could really call him that.)

>>>The Hunt, IIRC.  Very funny stuff - I liked the "Where'd the Renegade 
>>>go?" bluff...
>><smiles> Hunt was a co-authored bit. [...] we each have a version of
>>"Hunt" -- one by her and one by me. (Mine's up on the INC Fiction
>>page.) I forget which of us did the Shedim Pit. Probably her.
>
>It was her - I haven't read your version; I'll go check it, now that 
>I know about it.

Well, the thing is, we were co-writing that, a paragraph or three
at a time.  I think she moved the plot more than I did. (She's just
so much *better* at it...)  (Maya, are you *sure* I did the Shedim
Pit?  I'm going to have to go back and look at the original... Hm.
Should we put the initial, messy, exerpts-from-the-triad, unformatted
version up as well?)

>> Maya's very good.
>
>Oh, yeah.  Em for Game and Dark Humor, Beth for Lilim and Lilith, and
>Maya for Elohim, Habbalah, and War.  You three end up defining a 
>bunch of my images of In Nomine.

<beams> Oh, *good*. (Em for the Game? Heh... Go, Em, go!)

- --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com  In Nomine Line Editor
GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 00:55:54 GMT
From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman)
Subject: Re: IN> Maya Fan Club (Re: Lilim and Reproduction)

>>><smiles> Hunt was a co-authored bit. [...] we each have a version of
>>>"Hunt" -- one by her and one by me. (Mine's up on the INC Fiction
>>>page.) I forget which of us did the Shedim Pit. Probably her.
>>
>>It was her - I haven't read your version; I'll go check it, now that 
>>I know about it.
>
>Well, the thing is, we were co-writing that, a paragraph or three
>at a time.  I think she moved the plot more than I did. (She's just
>so much *better* at it...)  (Maya, are you *sure* I did the Shedim
>Pit?  I'm going to have to go back and look at the original... Hm.
>Should we put the initial, messy, exerpts-from-the-triad, unformatted
>version up as well?)

Up to you: I'm not really sure that it's necessary, given the two separate
viewpoints, but if you want to... 

I had the feeling that you introduced the Pit, but could be wrong. If so, I
grovel, Princess of Nitpicking.

And as to which of us is better - well, I would not argue with the creator
of Betharan, namely because I don't want to wake up one night to find a
homicidal berserker Lilim sitting on the foot of my bed and practicing the
Song of Claws. :)


>>Oh, yeah.  Em for Game and Dark Humor, Beth for Lilim and Lilith, and
>>Maya for Elohim, Habbalah, and War.  You three end up defining a 
>>bunch of my images of In Nomine.
>
><beams> Oh, *good*. (Em for the Game? Heh... Go, Em, go!)

Heh. I need to get down to that new Maher story, clearly, though it doesn't
deal with Lilith or the Game or Dark Humour, so I shouldn't be trespassing
too much... :)

- ---


Maya, Elohite of Eli in service to Blandine

maya@tcp.co.uk

- -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and
addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to
shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and
conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development
of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is
obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. --
"Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly.

------------------------------

End of in_nomine-digest V1 #631
*******************************

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