From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Feb 22 20:48:21 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA03941 for ; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:48:20 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id UAA22069 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:32:34 -0600 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:32:34 -0600 Message-Id: <199802230232.UAA22069@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #638 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, February 22 1998 Volume 01 : Number 638 In this digest: IN> New PBeM: "Reversing Entropy" IN> PBEM:Strange request Re: IN> Blandine's Boys Re: IN> Archangel of Purity (Rules comment) Re: IN> Michael Falling Re: IN> Archangel of Purity (Rules comment) Re: IN> Archangel of Purity (Rules comment) IN> Re: IN- Belial Rite makes no sense IN> Re: IN- Archangel of Purity (Rules comment) Re: IN> Re: IN- Archangel of Purity (Rules comment) IN> Starting to feel like I should have Nitpicking attunements IN> Re: IN- Starting to feel like I should have Nitpicking attunements Re: IN> Re: IN- Starting to feel like I should have Nitpicking attunements IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Starting to feel like I should have Nitpicking attunements IN> Interview with the Balseraph Re: Stupid Kyrio of Lightning tricks (was Re: IN> Feast of Blad Re: IN> Blandine's Boys [none] Re: IN> Re: IN- Archangel of Purity (Rules comment) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 20:10:30 -0500 (EST) From: "R. Sean Borgstrom" Subject: IN> New PBeM: "Reversing Entropy" Reversing Entropy A PBeM In Nomine game. (You're invited!) - -- This is the public story, and like all public stories, it doesn't necessarily make sense. - -- It was Belial, widely known for his subtlety, who triggered Armageddon. The fire of '97, that spread across New York in a paroxysm of devastation, was his tool. Directly encouraged by dozens of Calabim and firebug Shedim, destroying the innocent and sparing the cruel, the fire hurt Gabriel unimaginably. Her Word was twisted to the breaking point, and she came raging down to New York to address the situation personally. Desperate Servitors, mowed down by the Archangel of Fire, called to their Master. He came. News helicopters captured footage of the two great figures dueling amid the flames. The battle lasted /months/ before any other Superiors intervened. Then, reasoning that the existence of celestial forces was irrevocably betrayed, and knowing that Gabriel needed help, David took a hand. His rallying cry in the Seraphim Council convinced Janus (and tempted others) and they plunged into the inferno. Belial and Gabriel were locked together, inseparable, a swirling mass of bright flame and dark. The decision on which the fate of the world rested was in Baal's hands: allow Belial to be destroyed, removing one of Hell's strongest warriors and freeing Gabriel from her madness in one stroke -- or committing Hell to what could become an all-out war. His decision, ultimately, was based very little on Belial's worth, and very much on the fact that he thought he could win. Against three Archangels, without losing any Princes; against the Heavenly Host, at horrendous cost -- but either way a victory. He was wrong. He was impossibly, horribly, and utterly wrong. The diabolical army that he led against the three Archangels and their Servitors was clumsy, hesitant, confused, and disorderly. Half of the Princes didn't even /show up./ David, Gabriel, and Janus nearly held their own against the entire military population of Hell, and they did not fight alone for long. When Laurence finally, weeping, committed all of Heaven to the fight, Baal estimated his own life expectancy at a day and a half. Andrealphus' skin caved in, showing nothingness inside; he was the first Demon Prince to flee. Michael descended from the sky with axe in hand and a hundred Seraphs beside him. Then a miracle happened, and Baal's faith in the darkness was restored. Michael ripped Belial away from Gabriel with his bare hands and snarled to the assembled armies, "/This will stop now./" Baal did not hesitate. He called the reatreat, summoned his decimated armies back to Hell, and watching behind him every step he followed them. He did not, could not, meet Michael's burning eyes. Belial, refusing to retreat, brutally wounded, and weaker than he had ever been, was dragged down to Hell in chains. Saminga, as far as anyone knows, was already dead -- and this probably makes him happy. Gabriel attempted pursuit, because she was Gabriel. Jean, exploding among the diabolical host in a cascade of burning electricity, did not acknowledge Michael's authority. Laurence called the angels back into formation. Baal sent a third of his devastated army to fend off the two Archangels who still fought. He needn't have bothered; Michael pulled them back himself. They are in the Inquisition's hands now, and Dominic seems to have every intention of trying them -- Gabriel for the sins of Anger and Pride, and Jean for abandoning his Elohite objectivity at a defining moment in Heaven's history. Of course, even Michael's say-so couldn't just /stop/ the ancient war between demons and angels. So, in the aftermath, a lone, exquisite figure approached the Archangel of War. Her name was Lilith. Their conversation was not recorded, but the gist of it is known. She said, "Our bargain is complete." Michael nodded once, sharply. For this reason, Lilith has been nicknamed Hell's Savior in the streets of Shal-Mari. Then the two of them agreed that the War could be ended, and that this was the ultimate fulfillment of both their Words. For Lilith, it meant the freedom to find another option besides victory and defeat. For Michael, it meant a war that ends in peace. As a symbol of their agreement, they created a joint Tether from the blackened ruin that is New York City, and agreed that representatives of the divine and infernal powers would meet there, and talk, until a solution was found -- until Lucifer's ancient grievances, and the darkness in every demon's heart, could be answered without violence, or treason to the meaning of Heaven. The name of that Tether is Agrippa, meaning "Born out of pain." - -- Most celestials don't believe in a middle ground. To the demons, Redemption is slavery, a stripping away of their own personal desires to be replaced with 'selflessness' -- service to whatever Archangels think is right. To the angels, demons are an active, vile, abhorrent evil. /Yet/ -- angels can Fall, and they can even Fall voluntarily. And God did not destroy the Fallen; he set them in Hell. There is, possibly, somewhere, some room for compromise. The PCs have been personally picked by Michael and Lilith to oversee Agrippa. Their job is to find a solution, if there is one, and to keep things from blowing up into active war again, if there isn't. Demons can still do demonic things, out there on Earth, but mostly they don't -- if they start an /incident/ that causes Hell to lose ground in the negotiations, they're dead. Malakim, similarly, still kill demons -- but carefully, and subtly, where no one will know. Malakim assigned to Agrippa, of course, have been told to leave the local demons alone; it's not dissonant, since they really don't have a choice. There will be plenty of trouble for everybody. Your Superior probably has an agenda, except for a few special cases. If you serve Fire or Lightning, you're probably angling for the Word yourself or hoping to free your Dark Lord/Bright Lord/Bright Lady from captivity. If you serve Death, you're just angling for the Word. Michael and Lilith -- well, they'll inform their Servitors of their agendas. Eventually. - -- House Rules Celestial PCs have the standard 9 Forces. Soldier and Undead PCs must be exceptionally cool to be considered -- cool both OOC and IC. They have 7 Forces. You can buy ... for ... - ------------------------------------------------------------- A first-level Distinction 5 points. A first and second-level Distinction 15 points. An extra Rite 5 points. The "Security" Attunement 5 points. (Know when and where any violence breaks out in Agrippa, Know roughly how many people are in each area of the Tether) Note that a mummy can still buy *1* Rite for just 3 points. Grandfathering and all. - -- For the sake of my sanity, I will accept only a limited number of characters. You all will probably glut me with quality submissions, so I will also be selecting characters based on secret, arcane, and somewhat arbitrary determinations of campaign suitability. Let me know if you want to be a backup player in case of dropouts :) Please send any and all character submissions to: rsean@cs.jhu.edu Include (in ASCII text) a standard In Nomine character sheet, a brief history, a short imaginary scene illustrating how your character will act, and a (possibly prioritized) list of the roles you'd like to have in Agrippa's management. Michael and Lilith have the final say :) I will happily read longer histories and scenes, but a few paragraphs each is just fine. I look forward to hearing from you! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 17:38:07 -0800 (PST) From: Kim Subject: IN> PBEM:Strange request I am running a In Nomine PBEM and had a player drop out due to RL problems. I wanted to as if there was any on the list wanting to play this players place running the character. Its a Shedite of Lust. I know violence doesn't solve all problems... But it sure feels good! Felicia:DS3:Vampire Savior ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:53:26 -0500 From: Frank Lazar Subject: Re: IN> Blandine's Boys At 09:07 AM -0800 02/20/1998, Querent wrote: >Ok, servants of Blandine can not go Celestial without taking >dissonance. Fine. > >What if their vessel is killed? I interpret it as an involuntary >action, and therefore not dissonant. However, it *is* dissonant for >them to preserve a valuable vessel by going Celestial and fleeing the >fight. (See FAQ) > That's a valid interpretation, and I offer this in collateral support. I'd make a distinction between actively taking celestial form on the corporeal plane and being sent back to Heavenly trauma do to vessel death. The prohibition on the former, seems more of a desire to keep humans from seeing the celestial forms of angels. Blandine's concern here is keeping the fantastic in it's proper place, the dreamscape. One of the things mention in the Angelic guide is the concern that a mass revelation of angels in all their celestial glory might drive humans to Beleth's nightmare realms. A celestial just slain in his mortal vessel doesn't assume celestial form in the same manner of one ascending to Heaven (who just might get noticed by some passer-by while the former is in the process of ascension). Instead it is instantaneously and violently yanked to it's Heart, the suddenness of the transition is no doubt part of the cause of Trauma. But from the mortal perspective, a suddenly dead celestial is nothing more disturbing than any other suddenly dead body. (which too most folks is disturbing enough true, but you get my point.) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ | | We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | | We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ | | Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ | | And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ | | \\__// \\ | | These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ | | \\ | | | Frank Lazar http://www.interactive.net/~fmlazar | \\ | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 02:37:50 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> Archangel of Purity (Rules comment) > Eeew. That *is* frightening. Of course, only an Ofanim could do > that (since the Ofanim attunement is resonance dependent), but that > would be over the top. The second possible Malakim attunement > should be amended somehow so that only Malakim can use it (that is > what I intended in the first place). I'd say that, because of the way Purity works, having the attunement of a different Choir should not be allowed. > > Only danger is that baddie escapes, and you are forced to follow > > him to Hell/Marches. Now we know why the Ethereal Crusade worked > > so well, but I prefer Michael's boys to be the best. > > I think there was a lot of rivalry about that. Rather like the > Army/Marine debate in our Armed Forces. Well, to me Michael is more about unified combat, while Uriel and Laurence are all about individual strength. Yes, I know the dissonance conditions are wrong; they are being changed... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@mci2000.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 02:37:50 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> Michael Falling > > I think its kind of valuable to have folk around in heaven who > > consider that if you put winning above everything, then you might > > not have anything left to win ;) If Michael fell, would anyone > > notice? > > Most of Heaven would. Mostly because Michael and Baal would get > together and see who could kill more angels in a 24-hour period. If they didn't rip Hell to shreds fighting each other over their almost parallel words. Yeah, I think a stone as big as Michael would make a big splash if it fell, even if it wasn't a long fall (which I think it would be). Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@mci2000.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 02:37:50 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> Archangel of Purity (Rules comment) > Umm... If I read Kevin right, he's saying that according to canon, > _all_ angels - of _any_ Choir - who were attuned to Purity were > incapable of Falling, just like the Malakim. This, in and of > itself, is a potent attunement. Personally, I'd rather have it as a > Servitor Attunement or a Distinction. How about this; if a Servator of Uriel gets a Fallen result on it's dissonance roll, it is *destroyed*. This includes his Malakim; they don't get discord, they just die. Like somebody pointed out: "Death before dishonor" Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@mci2000.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 03:43:46 -0500 From: "Thomas Davidson" Subject: Re: IN> Archangel of Purity (Rules comment) > [snip] > Well, to me Michael is more about unified combat, while Uriel and > Laurence are all about individual strength. Yes, I know the > dissonance conditions are wrong; they are being changed... > I think that maybe you've gotten that reversed. Michael is to me all about individual strength, while Laurence is about unified combat. Look at Laurence Dissonance conditions. To quote the main rulebook: "[Laurence] holds his troops in strict regimentation, demanding precision in all things." This to me says that he sees his troops as a "unit", not a grouping of individuals. In Michael's description, on the other hand, it says, "While Laurence rules the armies of God, Michael is the commander of those who fight alone, relying only on their own weapons." But, of course, that's just how I'm reading it. :) Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us http://wwp.mirabilis.com/7789233 MUSIC: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Rush, Jimi Hendrix GAMES: Champions (old and new), In Nomine, Nephilim TV: The X-Files, The Simpsons, Superman, The Tick, The Animaniacs OTHER: Religion, Philosophy, mysticism, the runes, the Tarot, writing ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 05:01:10 PST From: "Andrew Frades" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Belial Rite makes no sense >One of the rites for demons of Fire says "Spend half an hour in 250 deg. F >heat." (The being must be immune to fire to benefit from this!) > >The problem is that Firewalker specifically say demons with this attunement >are not immune to heat only fire. Does this mean the rite really is "Spend >half an hour in flames that are at least 250 deg F"? Okay, so it says you must be immune to flame to have the rite work. That's about it, if you are immune to flame you can do the rite and gain temporary immunity to the heat during the rite. If it were switched it would make no sense at all. Almost everything burns hotter than 250 deg F and therefor the modifier means nothing, why would it be there. Jean's angels have a rite that allows them to be physically connected to a power generator for a time and not fry. The rite grants the angel temporary immunity. Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 05:14:55 PST From: "Andrew Frades" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Archangel of Purity (Rules comment) >Well, to me Michael is more about unified combat, while Uriel and >Laurence are all about individual strength. Yes, I know the >dissonance conditions are wrong; they are being changed... From the description of Michael: IN p. 130 "While Laurence rules the armies of God, Michael is the commander of those who fight alone, relying only on their own weapons." Sounds to me like you may have it backwards. Michael, IMO, is all about individual strength, Laurence is about honor and the chain of command. This doesn't mean that Michael does not have a chain of command, just that it is less important to him. Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 10:12:22 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Archangel of Purity (Rules comment) On Sun, 22 Feb 1998, Andrew Frades wrote: > >Well, to me Michael is more about unified combat, while Uriel and > >Laurence are all about individual strength. Yes, I know the > >dissonance conditions are wrong; they are being changed... > > From the description of Michael: IN p. 130 > > "While Laurence rules the armies of God, Michael is the commander of > those who fight alone, relying only on their own weapons." > > Sounds to me like you may have it backwards. Michael, IMO, is all about > individual strength, Laurence is about honor and the chain of command. > This doesn't mean that Michael does not have a chain of command, just > that it is less important to him. So? In your game you run it like the book says, and in his game he reverses it. This is the second reply I've seen to this saying "I think you're confused - you're getting them reversed." He isn't confused or wrong...he's saying that HE thinks it makes more sense HIS way. Frankly, I agree with him, but I can see an argument for either way. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Married to Rev. Unibomber on 11/15/96 - be jealous ;) Meow! And finally, a special message to anyone who thinks I give a damn... \|/ ____ \|/ ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 10:13:11 -0600 From: "S. Dickie" Subject: IN> Starting to feel like I should have Nitpicking attunements Howdy, I was reading the faq the other day and found out it is impossible for mortals to have discord. This seems contrary to some of the Choir attunements of Dominic, specifically those for Ofanim and Kyriotates. Both of these refer to discord in humans. This makes a great deal of sense given the nature of Judgment as described in the IN rule book, but if humans can't truly have discord these attunements have no value. Is this one for the errata or is this resolved in a later book? One thing for the errata is the description of the Ofanim attunement. It doesn't mention humans speciffically, but the description of the Malakim attunement says it does for celestials what the Ofanim attunement does for humans. Who handles errata? Can I just mention it here or do I need to mention it to sjg specifically? thanks steve ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 10:39:15 PST From: "Andrew Frades" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Starting to feel like I should have Nitpicking attunements >I was reading the faq the other day and found out it is impossible for >mortals to have discord. This seems contrary to some of the Choir >attunements of Dominic, specifically those for Ofanim and Kyriotates. Both >of these refer to discord in humans. This makes a great deal of sense given >the nature of Judgment as described in the IN rule book, but if humans >can't truly have discord these attunements have no value. > >Is this one for the errata or is this resolved in a later book? > >One thing for the errata is the description of the Ofanim attunement. It >doesn't mention humans speciffically, but the description of the Malakim >attunement says it does for celestials what the Ofanim attunement does for >humans. IIRC humans do not have Discord, but they have "the human equivalent". It is not discord as a celestial gets it, but the game effect is exactly the same. The choir attunements of Dominic detect Discord in Celestials and "the human equivalent" respectively. Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:13:34 -0600 From: "S. Dickie" Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Starting to feel like I should have Nitpicking attunements >IIRC humans do not have Discord, but they have "the human equivalent". >It is not discord as a celestial gets it, but the game effect is exactly >the same. > >The choir attunements of Dominic detect Discord in Celestials and "the >human equivalent" respectively. The question is the human equivelent a strain on the soul of a human as in celestials? Is a crippled human more evil (selfish) than one who is not, simply because he can't walk? Should a Kyriotate not get dissonance if he damages a blind host? What is the meaning of Discord in mortals? steve ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:27:07 PST From: "Andrew Frades" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Re: IN- Starting to feel like I should have Nitpicking attunements >The question is the human equivelent a strain on the soul of a human as in >celestials? That would depend on the source of the "discord". If it were something like "born crippled," definitely not. But if it came from a celestial source and was earned, then probably. >Is a crippled human more evil (selfish) than one who is not, simply because >he can't walk? Definitely not. >Should a Kyriotate not get dissonance if he damages a blind host? Of course he should. >What is the meaning of Discord in mortals? IMO, depends upon how they got it. If it is true discord, then it definitely has some serious effects similar to those that are felt by celestials. Andrew ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:07:54 GMT+10 From: "Leath Sheales" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: IN> Interview with the Balseraph Interview with the Balseraph. Hello, my friend. Thank you for inviting me here today. What is that you say? No, I am not late. You distinctly said that our appointment should commence at 6:30 PM, not 6 PM as you apparently believe. I am quite sure, I have it written in my diary. Shall I retrieve it for you? Do you have your diary on you? No? Well, I think under the circumstances that you should believe me, since you have no proof yourself. What was that? You were wrong? Ah, yes, that I do believe. No, my friend, no apologies are necessary, it was a simple mistake anyone could have made, even myself. So you wish to know what it is like to be a Balseraph, one of the holiest of the free? Well I can begin by telling you that despite what the hosts of Heaven may say, Balseraphs did not have far to Fall in the days of the rebellion. That is Heavenly propaganda for you. For all their Celestial beauty, the Seraphim pale before our true magnificence. The Seraphim, as you should be aware, resonate for truth, but their truth is a lie. The Seraphim believe that truth is absolute, that no one can corrupt it. Ask any Seraph and he will tell you. He will not be able to avoid telling you, so deluded is he in his lie. But I tell you today that the truth is dependant on the most subjective viewpoints. Show a husband sufficient proof that his wife is having an affair and then have a Seraph ask him if she is. To the Holy One, his affirmative answer will ring with God's own truth, for that is how the human believes the world to be, that is his truth. You and I know the real truth, however, that this poor man may have been deluded in his viewpoint by fabricated evidence. Prove this to the Seraph and he will deny it angrily, further compounding his acceptance of the lie. His limited Symphony detects only the subjective answer of the human as an objective conclusion. This exercise may be extended as evidence of the hidden truth I am about to tell you. Balseraphs did not 'Fall' during Lucifer's rebellion, as the Hosts say, rather they became enlightened. I see the sceptical look on your face at that, but consider what I have told you and see that I speak truly. When a Balseraph speaks, he is able to strip away the subjectivity of the Truth that a Seraph must blindly follow and decipher that Truth as it was meant to be heard. A Balseraph is able to see the context of a statement and interpret what was meant and what was not meant. Additionally, the Balseraph may offer his interpretation of the Truth to the person who has spoken and see if they agree. Often they are able to see that what we say is what they meant. Show me a Seraphim who can do that. They are so busy trying to clean out their ears from the supposed 'false notes' of a lie that they can never offer their constructive help to the humans who speak to them. What did you say? That we are not here to help humans? My dear friend, nothing could be further from the truth. This War we fight against Heaven has nothing to do with the Heavenly Hosts nor the Hordes of Hell. This War is about the humans whom we interact with. Each and every one of them can be recruited as our allies in this War, and to do this we must help them to see the Truth. That Heaven is a lie and God the great Oppressor. Consider this; if demons came from Hell in great numbers and slaughtered the humans without consideration to our goal, how long do you think it would take humanity to unite with the angels? That is not our plan and we can never allow it to become our plan. We must help the humans to understand their place in this Symphony and to join with us to overthrow the oppressors. I see that you are giving due thought to my words. That is good. Well, my friend, I see by the time that our interview must come to an end. I have much to do and I am sure your master would also desire you to return to your tasks. No, I am quite sure that when you contacted me our agreement was for one half-hour interview, nor a full hour. Yes, I have an excellent memory, and as we have already established you did not bring your diary. I can easily retrieve mine and prove to you... no, you accept my words. Good, I can see that we will be friends for a long time to come. Thankyou for this time, my friend, I enjoyed myself immensely. You agreed to pay for our drinks, did you not? Good. Until next time, keep safe. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any more questions. Leath Sheales. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:24:14 GMT+10 From: "Leath Sheales" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: Stupid Kyrio of Lightning tricks (was Re: IN> Feast of Blad Walter wrote: > I thought of that, but it leaves a lot of arguable areas. Does a coat > have "arms"? Is the mouth of a bottle a "mouth"? Etc. I'd prefer a > solution with fewer areas of gray. The dissonance solution works fairly > well, except it contradicts established canon. Denying NC Songs to > inanimate hosts also works pretty well, except that the "flying toaster > trick" got mentioned in the APG. I don't see too many gray areas. Remeber that a Kyrio in a non living host can only do what that host can normally do (exception: David's Gargoyles). So a possessed radio could speak, while a television could speak and show pictures etc. Therefore from your examples above, a coat does have arms, but I should have been more specific, it does not have hands and fingers to grow claws from (a golve could, but would be hard to wield. Great horror effect though). A bottle could be used to spray acid, as long as the bottle in squeezable, but the range would be dependant on the size of the mouth etc. As long as the GM is willing to use a little judgement, I think this could work. When in doubt, say no. Leath. PS. I'd generally alllow any object, regardless of what it was, to grow wings to move itself. It could lead to some very interesting questions though. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:27:52 GMT+10 From: "Leath Sheales" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: IN> Blandine's Boys Querent wrote: [Re: Servants of Blandine] > What if their vessel is killed? I interpret it as an involuntary > action, and therefore not dissonant. However, it *is* dissonant for > them to preserve a valuable vessel by going Celestial and fleeing the > fight. (See FAQ) AKAIK, having your vessel killed does not result in the user going celestial. Their 'soul' is instantly dragged back to their Heart without going Celestial first. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:42:37 -0500 (EST) From: "R. Sean Borgstrom" Subject: [none] "This is a situation," Heshmon explained, "that calls for a subtle touch." "Yes," Gederothaim added. "And it has absolutely *nothing* to do with demons." "Of course not," Heshmon agreed. "Why don't you stay here and tell the children a story?" Gershom wondered. "Yes!" the children clamored. "A story, Auntie Blood!" Malakim Bedtime Stories #1: "The Rephidim Brothers" Once upon a time (Blood began) there were two brothers named Jaresiah and Rephidite. Each looked exactly like the other, but where Jaresiah was a good and honest man, Rephidite was a bit of a rascal, always getting into one kind of trouble or another. After each turned thirty-one, they decided to separate and make their own way in the world. Jaresiah promised his brother that if Rephidite was ever in any kind of trouble, he would come to his aid. Rephidite promised only that he would always keep his brother's example in mind. What he meant by this is that he would remember how his brother acted so as never to make the kinds of selfless "mistakes" his brother was prone to. As it happened, each of them was to get in trouble anyway -- Jaresiah because he was upstanding and noble, and Rephidite because he was underhanded and devious. It happened like this. One day, while Jaresiah was traveling, he encountered a man named Andre who was entirely consumed by his own needs. Andre lived only to romance every woman he encountered. Since many of these women had husbands who objected to this behavior, Andre became quite skilled with the sword and with the magical arts. Now, when Jaresiah he came to understand Andre and his behavior, he was horrified. What had happened to the concepts of love and respect? As an honorable man, he could do nothing but challenge Andre then and there to a duel to the death. Andre beat him handily, of course, and spared his life for no other reason than sheer spite. As it happened, the very same day, his brother Rephidite had crept into a giantess' home with the intention of stealing some gold, or perhaps a harp that plays by itself, or -- well, treasure. Because Rephidite was a rapscallion, the giantess sensed his presence and swallowed him right up! And that could very easily have been the end of Rephidite right then. All the way across the world, Jaresiah sensed that this was happening, one sadness piling onto another. He had sworn an oath that he would come to his brother's aid, but he lay crippled in the dirt with Andre striding away and no one else around for miles. "Andre," Jaresiah said, "I must get up and go to my brother's side. Will you help me, if I agree to attack you no longer?" "No," Andre said, impudently. "Perhaps," Jaresiah said, with a flash of inspiration, "we could make a bargain of some sort. Or -- a wager." "What do you have to wager?" Andre asked, amused. "And what bet could possibly be of interest, when I have no need of gold?" "They say," Jaresiah said, "that only the world's greatest lover could satisfy a giantess. Perhaps we could wager on that -- that if you *can* do this thing, I will serve you and stand at your side for a year and a day." "Well," Andre said, "I must allow that this wager interests me. But giantesses are notoriously rare and difficult to find." "As it happens," Jaresiah said, "I have a good idea of where we can locate one -- if we hurry." So, reluctantly, Andre helped Jaresiah up and supported him while they ran, like a three-legged kangaroo on rollerblades, towards the castle of the giantess. "I will leave you here," said Andre, outside the castle walls, but Jaresiah shook his head. "I must observe, to validate the bet," he replied. So, grumbling all the time, Andre spirited him inside and approached the giantess with his best romantic grin and a handful of rare and hypnotic flowers. Jaresiah he left slumped against the wall, barely able to move. "I have no interest in *you*," the giantess said, but Raphadite, within her belly, said, "Oh my love! What beautiful flowers you bring me." "I loathe and detest your kind," the giantess said, but Raphadite, within her belly, said, "Kiss me, you mad, passionate fool!" Andre, believing the giantess internally conflicted, pressed his advantage and pressed his lips to hers. Aghast, she put her hand around his throat and squeezed. That was when, as fast as crippled, tired, bloody lightning, Jaresiah cut open the giantess from behind and let his brother free. The giantess, who died instantly, fell on top of Andre, and he never ever got free. And as for Raphadite, he was so impressed by his brother's good example that he swore to be a *little* less of a rascal henceforth. The moral of the story? Unless it is true love, a kiss can lead to your being crushed under a dead giant or giantess for the rest of your life. "Thank you, Auntie Blood!" the children cheered. - -- Hitherby, Kyriotate of Jordi ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:21:35 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Archangel of Purity (Rules comment) > > >Well, to me Michael is more about unified combat, while Uriel and > > >Laurence are all about individual strength. Yes, I know the > > >dissonance conditions are wrong; they are being changed... > > > > Sounds to me like you may have it backwards. Michael, IMO, is all about > > individual strength, Laurence is about honor and the chain of command. > > This doesn't mean that Michael does not have a chain of command, just > > that it is less important to him. > > So? In your game you run it like the book says, and in his game he > reverses it. This is the second reply I've seen to this saying "I > think you're confused - you're getting them reversed." He isn't > confused or wrong...he's saying that HE thinks it makes more sense > HIS way. Frankly, I agree with him, but I can see an argument for > either way. Exactly. Thank you... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@mci2000.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #638 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.