From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Feb 24 08:33:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA06989 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:33:33 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id IAA21650 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:01:31 -0600 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:01:31 -0600 Message-Id: <199802241401.IAA21650@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #641 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, February 24 1998 Volume 01 : Number 641 In this digest: Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors Re: IN> Fallen Yves (was Outcast Michael) Re: IN> In Nomine Sideways Qs Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. Re: IN> Outcast Michael Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. IN> Vap vs. Jean IN> Re: World War II Re: IN> Re: Jean's Kyrios Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors Re: IN> In Nomine Sideways Qs IN> The booze run (plot seed) Re: IN> Starting to feel like I should have Nitpicking attunements Re: IN> Falling/Repenting and Words Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. Re: IN> Interview with the Balseraph Re: IN> Varying superior disturbance levels Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 22:53:35 -0500 From: Frank Lazar Subject: Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors >For a while, I have wondered at the capabilities of the Archangels and >Demon Princes of In Nomine. As in how many Forces they have, what songs, >skills, and attunements they possess, etc. I've done some work with >them, but have yet to be satisfied with the outcome, so I have decided >to come to here and ask for suggestions. I know there are some out there >that would prefer for the Superiors not to be given stats, but I'm >curious as to what they would be like. I know they won't fit into the >current game mechanics, or at least, not very easily. My quest is not to >fit them within the game mechanics, but to simply classify them. Ok here >goes.. While I understand your desire, my reaction is the same as to the original Dieties and Demigods. Give stats to the gods and they become heavy Hit Dice targets for the Trophy Seekers. As far as I see it,if player characters are going to off a Superior the only way is by the help of either another Superior or by a relic that's so powerful that giving it stats is an equally meaningless task. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ | | We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | | We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ | | Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ | | And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ | | \\__// \\ | | These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ | | \\ | | | Frank Lazar http://www.interactive.net/~fmlazar | \\ | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 23:42:00 -0500 From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: Re: IN> Fallen Yves (was Outcast Michael) On Mon, 23 Feb 1998, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: > > I'll explain Yves's Fall in another post, if there's interest, but > right now I need to use the phone for calling someone other than > my ISP. :) Yves's word is Destiny, and his job is to make sure that every soul in the Universe gets the chance to choose between Heaven or Hell, and to help them find the strength to choose Heaven. Now, God wouldn't give anyone that kind of responsibility without giving them power to match; in my game that means that Yves is second only to Michael in power, and ahead of him in knowledge (but not wisdom, as it came out). Now, this being, which is responsible for the destiny of every single being in the universe, got just a tiny bit prideful. Not very much at all, really. He slowly -- so slowly not even he himself has realized -- began working for something very slightly different from what God intended. He began working to make sure that every being in the universe reaches its Destiny, without any exceptions. Every being in the universe will eventually glorify God, and they will do it full willingly. Anything less would be unacceptable. He doesn't like Michael a whole lot; he wonders what sort of angel would say it's not always possible to know what the right choice was. He talked it over with Dominic, and Dominic came to see the pride that ate at Michael, and tried him. God dropped the charges against Michael, but didn't say anything to Yves. Then he talked with Uriel. The Marches were populated with all sorts of undesirables, distractions who could cause people to lose sight of God at a crucial instant, and he thought the dreamlands should be purified. And Uriel began the Purification Crusade. It was not until he saw that the Seraphim Council was ready to cast him out, that his best and noblest lieutenant Laurence was willing to rebel against Heaven, that Uriel understood what he had done. And Uriel fell to his knees and weeping great big Malak tears, begged God for forgiveness for his sins against Him. And God took mercy; He called Uriel up to the higher heavens and restored him to his glory. But again, God did not punish Yves. And again, Yves took it not as divine forbearance but as divine approval. After all, did he not take Uriel up to High Heaven? Now, even though the Marches were clean, men still sinned. And Yves decided that what men needed was a religion, to show them the true path. He went to Gabriel, and told her his plan. She was reluctant, so Yves had to shade the truth a little, and let her think that he had been given divine revelation. It was basically true, wasn't it? Didn't God trust him to lead man to salvation, however he saw fit? Gabriel is not dissonant because she shares a word with a demon; she is dissonant because she falsely spread word of divine revelation. The shock, when she realized, drove her mad.[*] Eli, too, is a victim of Yves's experimental theology. Yves has decided he needs to find out what the proper relation of the world of matter is to the world of spirit, and at the opening of this century told Eli that matter was all that mattered, so to speak. And then Yves sat back to watch what happened to Eli when he took Yves's advice. Now Michael speaks openly against Yves in the Seraphim Council, but Yves holds the ear of nearly every archangel, and the louder Michael speaks the less he is heard. Perhaps, they say wisely, the eldest angel is going senile? Perhaps it would be prudent -- merely simple discretion -- to remove from him his power, before he goes like Gabriel? Yves has reached the point that he doesn't care when an angel Falls. He's going to Redeem them all anyway, so it doesn't matter if they Fall -- and in the meantime, that's just one less obstacle in properly reorganizing Heaven. [*] Unlike in Dante, Muslims do go to Heaven IMC. Yves thinks it's proof he was right. Gabriel isn't sure what's going on. Dominic shrugs and points to the vastness of divine love. Michael thinks it would be very like Him to work a complex good through a simple evil.... - ---- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:25:29 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Sideways Qs > > Questions? > > What do you do about Hell and DPs, and where did they fit into the > heirarchy? Well, the main reason Heaven only has seven Archangels is that God is hidebound, and hasn't made new Archangels in several thousand years. There are several Wordbound that are powerful enough to be AAs in their own right; Laurence, Malakim of War, Angel of the Sword, for instance. On the demonic side, however, promotion has been forthcoming, to any who could hold the position. The political landscape looks like a cross between cyberpunk corporations and medival Japan; there is even the equivalent of an Emperor and a Shogun... > Why did none of the original 8 AAs take the plunge? Well, the loss of angelic resonance normally associated with falling isn't the same as Falling (being cast out of Heaven), although the first will be caused by the second in most cases (because most angelic resonances involve a link to Yahweh). The Malakim have the equivalent of a demonic resonance (*not* the one given in the book), but are still considered angels. As for the others; Oannes did take the plunge, although not through loss of resonance. The others are too well accustomed to their roles to "break" their resonance, except for Uriel, who is saved by the fact that you can't fall off the floor. > On the assumption that power comes at least partially with age, and > that therefore six of the Archangels are the Top Six Tough Things, > what is Hell's edge that keeps it from invasion? Oannes and the Grigori did not stay in Hell; it was populated by several big old ethereal spirits (Baal, Moloch, and Lilith [who had ties to Yahweh in the distant past]), as well as the fallout caused by Oannes being cast out, and by the large amount of angels created for the Ethereal war, not all of whom were very good. The Ethereal War flocked lots more Ethereals to Hell. The fall of Samael (who replaced Uriel, briefly) helped as well. > What about the Ethereal Gods? Are they powerful, or as wuss as in > the Marches? They vary in size; because of the secret of Words that Yahweh discovered (which lent him great power) none are as powerful as Heaven and Hell. > Are the AAs a well-oiled machine, or does Uriel distrust Eli, > Michael distrust Yves, etc? It's not a well-oiled machine; there are factions. I am still working out the politics behind those factions. > Has Laurence taken over the 'lone warrior' thing entirely, or is > Michael still, when you get down to basics, Archangel of Nails? Laurence is the honorable lone warrior; Michael is the leader, but he still cares more for results than niceties of methods. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@mci2000.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:25:29 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. > > Oannes is an interesting soul. He is fourth Angel to be created by > > Yahweh, and his word of Water had, at the time, a heavy connotation > > of Creation. It was he who created the nam-shub of breaking, which > > totally removed the inborn language humans had evolved. This > > nam-shub was the cause of legends of the Garden of Eden and the > > Flood; Yahweh ordered Oannes to flood the Tigris and Euphrates, to > > destroy the nam-shub before it spread. Oannes' refusal to cause a > > flood got him and all the Grigori imprisoned in Hell, after which > > Yahweh flooded the two rivers anyway. Oannes, however, was freed by > > the ba'al shem Moloch, and released his nam-shub again in Babylon. > > If he still lives, it is not in Hell; he and the Grigori are in > > hiding, if they survive at all. > > > > Questions? > > Yes. I read that paragraph, but I didn't get past all the proper > nouns. Sorry. I assumed you remembered more of the first In Nomine Sideways post... He was the one who gave humanity the metaphorical Apple of Knowledge, although the actual way he did it was through a set of words called a nam-shub. God then told him to flood the land of Sumer (where the nam-shub was being spread - it worked like a virus) by gorging the Tygris and Euphrates. Oannes refused, got cast into Hell, and God then flooded Sumer anyway. Oannes eventually broke free thanks to Moloch (the Ethereal spirit of a sorcerer-king opposed to Yahweh), and repeated the nam-shub at Babylon. The nam-shub, incidentally, relied on destroying the common language that all humans used at that time, causing the Tower of Babylon story. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@mci2000.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:25:29 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> Outcast Michael > I'll explain Yves's Fall in another post, if there's interest, but > right now I need to use the phone for calling someone other than my > ISP. :) Hell, if you can do it and make it internally consistant, I for one would love to know how... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@mci2000.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:36:01 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. > I understood fine. Hey, they're just names. The story would lose > something, I think, if reduced to "some god told this angel to make > rain and flood those two rivers." :) Which is essentially what Genesis brings it to, yes... > If you don't know what nam-shubs or ba'al shems are, basically, a > ba'al shem is the Hebrew word for wizard (a gross simplification; it > literally means something like "master of the word"). Exactly. The ba'al shem were powerful, self-aware individuals who knew how to reincarnate when they died, in addition to the powers that the nam-shubs gave them. Many of them were the priest-kings of various empires; Moloch and Yahweh, for example. > Nathaniel (does your name translate into anything cool? :) Given/Gift of God. Hootie-hoo. Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@mci2000.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:55:10 -0500 (EST) From: Raoul Duke Subject: Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: > > If you don't know what nam-shubs or ba'al shems are, basically, a > > ba'al shem is the Hebrew word for wizard (a gross simplification; it > > literally means something like "master of the word"). > Exactly. The ba'al shem were powerful, self-aware individuals who > knew how to reincarnate when they died, in addition to the powers > that the nam-shubs gave them. Many of them were the priest-kings of > various empires; Moloch and Yahweh, for example. Hrm. I'm interested in seeing where this is headed, but could you start doing it chronologically again? It's a bit disconcerting to suddenly find out Yahweh's "just" a ba'al shem out of context. :) > > Nathaniel (does your name translate into anything cool? :) > Given/Gift of God. Hootie-hoo. Neat. Anyone know if Raoul means anything? Joe - ------ Big Brother's watching? Learn to become Invisible. "Looking at my action figure, it occurred to me that that's not a bad way to face the world: gorgeous, heavily-armed, and distinctively masked." - -- Amy Rambow, contemplating Cosmic Angela How I waste my time: http://acs1.bu.edu:8001/~arie/rpg.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:57:50 -0500 From: bruce dykes Subject: IN> Vap vs. Jean >>So, maybe Jean's a power-hungry little bugger, or maybe he was granted >>some insight into God's plan and saw that his Word was going to become >>very, very powerful and this is why he has been working so very, very >>hard to keep certain technological secrets out of the hands of humanity >>and Vapula. > >Vapula is a Habbalite, is he not? Thus he thinks he works for God. He >probably sees himself as revealing secrets to humankind for their >betterment. Principally, by killing off the weak. (a bit similar to >David's attitude, oddly). > >Jean is more of a "censorship" guy - protecting humanity from things it >is not ready for yet. > >I'd suggest the elemental AAs - Wind, Stone, Fire, Lightning - are all >fairly old. Vapula was probably a word-bound Angel of Jean. I intended to respond to the original message, but it passed from my queue to quickly... My take on those two is inspired by Lewis' Screwtape Letters... I made Jean AA of Science, and Vapula DP of (Pseudo)Science. Jean's mission is to enforce the natural laws of the Universe, as written by God, and ensure that when humans start learning those laws, they do it from evidence, reason and deduction. Vapula, otoh, wants humanity to worship and believe in science, but not understand it. Free energy and patent medicine would fall under Vapula's realm... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 01:43:00 -0500 From: "R. Sean Borgstrom" Subject: IN> Re: World War II Apologies if this has been suggested before; I've only gone so far back into old digests. For those who don't like the idea that Malakim would stand back and wait during the atrocities of World War II: Perhaps the celestial forces were occupied elsewhere at the time. What if there was a threat to Heaven or even Earth that was so urgent that Malakim simply couldn't be spared to break through the mortal defenses and tear down the more "evil" regimes? Perhaps Hitler delved into Norse myth, for example, because the Norse gods were swelling in strength and the angels needed every hand they could muster to keep them penned in the Marches? Or perhaps one of the major pitched battles between Heaven and Hell was being held then and there. You could even suggest that humanity's most horrible and most beautiful moments have been during the bloodier battles between the two celestial camps -- that the peaceful but stagnant times in history have been when the Heavenly and Infernal 'censors' have been free to stop the major evils and the greatest acts of valor, art, and self-sacrifice before they could even get started. Admittedly, there's pretty much always an atrocity or an act of beauty going on /somewhere/, but then, not all serious conflicts have to drag in /everyone./ The Italian Renaissance and the Cambodian massacres, for example, might have been cotemporal with a very local conflict that didn't drag in every angel and demon under the sun. - -- Hitherby, Kyriotate of Jordi ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 07:24:10 +0000 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Re: Jean's Kyrios At 09:26 24/02/98 GMT+10, you wrote: > Jean's attunements >thousands of years ago (if he was an Archangel) were probably very >different than they are now, dealing with the primal forces of >lightning. OK guys. I have this great attunement for you that'll make it really easy to keep in touch with your attunements when someone invents the telephone in about 1000 years time. Meanwhile you'll be able to automatically use the ethereal song of tongues on your attunements, regardless of distance but once Alexander Graham Bell comes along I'll change lal that. Anyone have any problems with that? ** zap ** Anyone else have any problems with that? jo - ---------- "I like getting into hot water, it keeps me clean." G. K. Chesterton jhart@btinternet.com -- http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~jhart/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 23:50:30 -0500 From: eswhanu@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors Okay, this is something I used in the Live Action In Nomine event that I ran, and plan on carrying over to my tabletop game. 1) Barring Diabolical or Divine Interventions, a non-Superior will be unable to affect a Superior in any way. 2) no. 1 does not apply if a non-Superior is empowered specifically to do battle with a Superior. 3) As per Songs, assuming that barring interventions, that they automatically successful. Additions to the check digit are depended on plot (if Eli uses his Song of Thunder because he needs everyone to shut up while he packs a bowl and explains that the Archangel of Purity is on his way to purify thier asses, barring intervention, it happens) However, these are situations that should be few and far between. Superiors, when confronting one another, most likely will grab their Servitors and drag them to a Tether (and then chew them out for blowing the mission). Only certain Superiors will fight for their Servitors, and the best thing to tell players is if they are staring down Baal's sword or Michael's axe, for example, that "if you do not flee right now, start making those Trauma rolls" But like Frank said, most of that should be handled as plot devices. Brian Ward On Mon, 23 Feb 1998 22:53:35 -0500 Frank Lazar writes: >>For a while, I have wondered at the capabilities of the Archangels >and >>Demon Princes of In Nomine. As in how many Forces they have, what >songs,>>skills, and attunements they possess, etc. I've done some work with >>them, but have yet to be satisfied with the outcome, so I have >decided>>to come to here and ask for suggestions. I know there are some out >there >>that would prefer for the Superiors not to be given stats, but I'm>>curious as to what they would be like. I know they won't fit into the>>current game mechanics, or at least, not very easily. My quest is not >to>>fit them within the game mechanics, but to simply classify them. Ok >here>>goes.. > >While I understand your desire, my reaction is the same as to the >original>Dieties and Demigods. Give stats to the gods and they become heavy >Hit>Dice targets for the Trophy Seekers. As far as I see it,if player >characters are going to off a Superior the only way is by the help of>either another Superior or by a relic that's so powerful that giving >it>stats is an equally meaningless task. > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:52:22 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Sideways Qs > > Well, the loss of angelic resonance normally associated with falling > isn't the same as Falling (being cast out of Heaven), although the > first will be caused by the second in most cases (because most > angelic resonances involve a link to Yahweh). The Malakim have the > equivalent of a demonic resonance (*not* the one given in the book), > but are still considered angels. > You've mentioned this twice already. Can you post all the resonances you've invented for your game and specify which ones you're keeping? - -- "as for their relations with others, that is a long story, but it can be expressed shortly and clearly by saying that of all people we know the Spartans are most conspicuous for believing that what they like doing is honourable and what suits their interests is just." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:56:44 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: IN> The booze run (plot seed) Summary: PCs are requested to accompany a group of 2nd World War veterans on their annual day-trip from London to visit the D-Day beach-heads and war cemetaries. One of the oldies is just a bit more trouble than they appear. Background: Its quite traditional for young angels, new to earth, to be assigned to accompany groups of mortal war veterans on their little pilgrimages, in order to gain an appreciation of the role that mortals can play in the larger conflicts so as to see them as more than just numbers on a sheet. The D-Day beaches are shared tethers between Michael, Janus & David and although no demon would be stupid enough to try anything there, the group itself might be a target. In fact, their main problem is an extra oldie which is in fact the vessel of a demon of theft that is on the run, having stolen vital documents from Asmodeans. It gets unlucky and runs into one of Laurence's ofanim -- it has also stolen an icon from a Laurencian tether -- which is able to warn the PCs of its presence, but doesn't know how many vessels it has (3, as it turns out). Notes: These particular oldies are a spritely lot. They gather in a coach at Victoria station (in London) at 7am, all happily toting cups of tea and war stories to share with all and sundry. David's seneschal at the tether is there to brief the PCs -- who are officially there as guides. They are given the first aid kit, passports, the ferry tickets, some maps and a timetable and a list with the names of everyone who is supposed to be there. Someone spills their tea all over the list at a dramatically appropriate moment (oops). The theft demon (a calabite) is using a spare vessel/1 which is a sweet, frail old lady. It keeps quiet and tries to knit; the knitting is a bit of a disaster but that could just be arthritis! List of Events - -- Hopefully the PCs manage to get everyone settled and onto the coach, which then drives down to Dover. The oldies will happily start organising a sing-along in the coach and telling war stories to each other (but especially to the PCs because they haven't heard them before). A lot of them seem to know each other. Once at the ferry, some of the more hard-bitten oldies will head straight for the bar and proceed to get amusingly drunk (unless stopped) -- others will begin to decimate the duty free shop, and some will stake out the cafeteria (and drink more tea). About half-way across the channel, there is a noisy disturbance from one of the car decks, followed by a few more. On investigation, PCs can find the Ofanite which is irritated because it had located the thief in the act of breaking into its car, and engaged it in combat. But the theft demon managed to escape and part of the noise seems to have been it changing vessels. They weren't the only people to have heard the disturbance. A pair of tough Asmodean demons turn up, assume one of the PCs must be the thief and attempt to debate/ take them out. During the fight there is another disturbance from higher up the ship, near the cafeteria (the thief changed into its old lady vessel again). The ofanite formally offers its assistance if they would like it to accompany them. It is a very bouncy angel and tends to want to jump up and go and do things as soon as they are suggested, unless physically restrained. If they search its car, they'll find that the thief left a jewelled icon in it (hoping wrongly that returning some of the goods will cut down the number of pursuers it is dealing with). PCs need to round up the oldies and get them back on the coach when the ferry docks. The journey to the beach-heads is uneventful apart from a roadblock at which french police demand to search the coach. This gets all of the oldies very worked up and they start singing 'Rule Brittania' very loudly and attempting to defend 'their' coach from boarding if not calmed down. The PCs do speak some french, don't they? No? Oh dear ;-) One of the policemen is hellsworn, working for the game. If PCs spot this, the ofanite will want its head. They are met by Michael's seneschal at Juno beach, a grizzled cherub who has a grizzled vessel and is known to some of the vets (they come here regularly). The theft demon keeps its mouth shut and tries not to look nervous. Really. But old habits die hard and when the group are shown an inscribed pistol which was presented as a gift from the local people, in memoriam, it is a given that the thief will try to make a play for it at some point during the visit. (Maybe when everyone else is at the cemetary). After the more solemn visits are over, the coach takes off again and stops, by popular demand, at a hypermarket near Calais. The coach empties at top speed (oldies can be amazingly spritely when there are some good shopping bargains to be had). When the PCs finally manage to retrieve everyone from the hypermarket and finish loading up the coach with alcohol until it is groaning, they find that their group has acquired an extra person. A young hippy-looking woman with a guitar seems to have made friends with some of the old people and they inform the PCs that she will be coming back on the coach with them. Such a NICE girl. That's OK, isn't it? - --- The girl was sitting in amongst the group of old people with her guitar on her knee and a big smile on her face. "Go on, dear," said Mrs O.Malley. "Do you know 'White Cliffs of Dover'? My Bert used to tell me I had a lovely sexy voice when I was a girl and used to sing him that over the telephone!" - --- She is a Mercurian of Marc on the way back from Amsterdam and intends to grab some quick essence by smuggling her dope stash through in her luggage, thinking that customs people won't bother a coach full of war vets and their families. This time the boat trip is less eventful but the game is fairly sure the theft demon is one of the party now and has another roadblock set up at customs on the English side. In fact, when the coach comes through it is directed to a very remote part of the docks. Time for a grand fight -- and some of those old people are rather good with their walking sticks and knitting needles. Once a soldier, always a soldier. If things are going badly, and it has survived this long. the thief will blows its cover to help the people it has been travelling with, but tries to bolt when everyone is occupied if it can. If not, it tries to get corporeally killed. It has spare vessels, after all. Afterwards, one of the PCs will find a stack of illegible (unless they can read hellscript) documents in their bag. (Which will put them on a Game hitlist. Did the theft demon forget to mention that it was a renegade?) Even though the PCs are probably worn out by the time the coach gets back to London, the oldies are still full of beans and are last seen proposing a pub crawl. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 07:29:27 -0500 From: Andrew Frades Subject: Re: IN> Starting to feel like I should have Nitpicking attunements > How do mortals get Discord. According to the faq mortals can't get "true > discord". It is my understanding that you get Discord mainly through acting > against your nature. What is a mortals nature? I know you can get Discord > through Ethereal Combat or by trading in notes of dissonance (and I suppose > having a geas inflicted counts as a Discord). How do mortals gain notes of > dissonance? Can they? I would say that even in your pre-pubescence you hit the big ones. :) I would also assume that like a geas discord could be inflicted upon them by their superior. I would however imagine that Laurence would have none of this... > Are there other ways of gaining Discords that I in my In Nomine > pre-pubescence don't know about? Please enlighten me. I really just want to > know... > > Is it further explained in Night Music? If you want to know about soldiers, Night Music is invaluable. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 07:39:18 -0500 From: Andrew Frades Subject: Re: IN> Falling/Repenting and Words > >Actually a strong case could be made for Words not changing even if you > >fall. > > Canon definitely is the other way, though. Beleth, for example, was > Fear, but became Nightmares when she Fell. Lucifer may often grant a > powerful Fallen a roughly-equivalent Word, simply because that is > efficient, but it's not a given. Argh. I shouldn't even respond, but if this is what you replied there is no way you read the rest of the message. In the remainder of the message I explained that IMO the word doesn't change in the celestial language, just in English and interpretation. I believe both celestial tongues to be ones of symbol and context and when a celestial is attached to part of the Symphony it is permanent, not even falling can change it. Another string case could be made for repented demons not keeping their Words as they were connected to a false Symphony. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:20:14 -0500 From: Andrew Frades Subject: Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. Nathaniel Eliot wrote: > Alain, Kyriotate Archangel of Animals I would imagine the name changed to move it away from the mideval English that Alain comes from. > Eli, Mercurian Archangel of Creation Interesting. I like it, it opens up a great deal of story potential, but see Oannes below. > Gabriel, Cherub Archangel of Stone A nice twist on game and in world canon. Especially if Gabriel keeps David's role as the teacher of humanity, it fits in rather well with the role of the AA in Christian theology. > Janus, Ophanim Archangel of Wind If you don't like the name, might I suggest Sheriah. It means wind. > Michael, Seraph Archangel of War > Uriel, Malakim Archangel of Fire Very interesting twist. Take Gabriel's punishment stuff and add the pure Divine light, keep Divine inspiration. Interesting indeed. > Yves, Elohim Archangel of Destiny I must admit to rather liking Yves from IN canon, so it be best not to comment here. > > Former Archangels: > > Raphael, Mercurian Archangel of Healing Healing? I would be interested in the rationale or reasonning behind the change from Knowledge. It might be more interseting to give him Zadkiel's place of Protection and call his sacrifice the ultimate way to protect... This of course would also mean that many of the classic Gaurdian Angel types might have disappeared about that time explaining why not everyone has a Gaurdian Angel anymore... > Oannes, Grigori Archangel of Water Not sure I buy Oannes as a Grigori. Water and Humanity were historically farther apart than this implies. Humanity for many of its formative cultural years fought hard to earn an existance from the Water, if one of the Watchers were involved I would imagine the water being more impartial and less of an adversary to be overcome simply to survive. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:23:42 -0500 From: Andrew Frades Subject: Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. > Oannes, Grigori Archangel of Water > Oannes is an interesting soul. He is fourth Angel to be created by > Yahweh, and his word of Water had, at the time, a heavy connotation > of Creation. It was he who created the nam-shub of breaking, which > totally removed the inborn language humans had evolved. This > nam-shub was the cause of legends of the Garden of Eden and the > Flood; Yahweh ordered Oannes to flood the Tigris and Euphrates, to > destroy the nam-shub before it spread. Oannes' refusal to cause a > flood got him and all the Grigori imprisoned in Hell, after which > Yahweh flooded the two rivers anyway. Oannes, however, was freed by > the ba'al shem Moloch, and released his nam-shub again in Babylon. > If he still lives, it is not in Hell; he and the Grigori are in > hiding, if they survive at all. Hmmm... adding on to my former post. Very interesting idea though, perhaps Oannes is not a Grigori, but many of them serve him. Perhaps he is an Elohite and is now the gaurdian of the Grigori on Earth. Either way welcome to the three sides of the power triangle. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:29:01 -0500 From: Andrew Frades Subject: Re: IN> Interview with the Balseraph Leath Sheales wrote: > > Perry wrote: > > > >Interview with the Balseraph. > > by Leath Sheales... > > > > Very enjoyable. :) > > Is this a lie? :) > > Leath. In Hell, we never ask if what a Balseraph says is a lie, it doesn't accomplish anything, makes you look silly, and you already know the answer... Of course it is a lie, but what exactly is the lie and what is the truth? Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:32:53 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Varying superior disturbance levels > > You don't get a Michaeline interventions because: a) he doesn't presume > to take God's place, and b) he's too busy, anyway. The medieval > Catholic church named Michael as the psychopomp, the guardian of the > souls of the dead, and I decided that I would use that. Michael makes > sure that people get where they want to go after they die -- he's > the reason the devil has to tempt souls rather than just kidnapping > them. Dominic's angels of Final Judgement act as a double check, > as well. The angels don't want to screw up in their responsibilities. > (It would make a great adventure to kidnap a soul from beneath > Michael's nose, and smuggle it into Hell, wouldn't it?) > Interesting. Except the adventure. I have trouble with the idea of being in front of an opposed Superior, especially one with Michael's temperament, and not dying. It renders the rebellion rather pointless, of course. > >I'd note at this point that Novalis' and Jordi's Words are being hacked to > >pieces at an incredible rate. The literal parts, at any rate. > > That's why they are as powerful as they are. Man was given dominion > over the animals, and given the way he has abused his power, > Jordi has been forced to take on a lot of power to succor the > animals. > I tend to look at Superior strength in the opposite way. They're as strong as their Word, and live and die with it. (The death of a Superior doesn't destroy a Word, of course, though it should reduce it.) > > Jean is a minor archangel because I like underdogs -- and in my game > he has to contend directly against both Vapula /and/ Asmodeus. (I'll > explain why if you're interested.) > Yes, go on. > > > I don't want to use any Princes other than the main rulebook ones, That's fair enough, though I'd point out that Mammon is traditional. > not unless one of the PCs manages to usurp one of the thrones of Hell. > Mammon IMC was a Habbalah who Voided himself a few centuries ago, and > got chopped up and eaten by the other princes (in Haagenti's case, > literally). > I have difficulty with the game description of taking Emptiness in a backlash. It's implied that you can suppress it, but it's dissonant for you not to suppress it anyway, so there's no reason not to. I reckon, IMC, it won't be possible to suppress it, with the additional note that if another Habbalite inflicts it on you and you fail to resist, you get dissonance for that as well. > > I prefer to rule that Superiors are so powerful that they can't help > but cause massive Disturbance. I am planning on having a fair amount > of detective work in my game, and for that to work there need to be > universals that players can use in their planning. Clearly this is a > campaign specific thing, though. > What can be a universal is that certain Superiors tend to be noisy while others don't. So Jean is noisy because noise is a direct consequence of lightning, he's furthering his Word. Others might be noisy because they want to discourage their Servitors from summoning them all the time. And Words like Theft should be silent. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "as for their relations with others, that is a long story, but it can be expressed shortly and clearly by saying that of all people we know the Spartans are most conspicuous for believing that what they like doing is honourable and what suits their interests is just." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:53:08 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors > > DISSONANCE - Superiors suffer from the same Dissonance that their > servents have as well as those of the individual Superior's Choir/Band. > I don't know about this. I tend to assume that Superiors have Dissonance conditions that are not necessarily the same as, and usually much broader than, those of their Servitors. Or maybe because they have far greater capabilities, their dissonance conditions become stricter as a result. The Ofanite dissonance of inaction must be far more severe when you have so many more opportunities for action. Given this, it's unlikely that they roll d666s for their dissonance. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "as for their relations with others, that is a long story, but it can be expressed shortly and clearly by saying that of all people we know the Spartans are most conspicuous for believing that what they like doing is honourable and what suits their interests is just." ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #641 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.