From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Feb 24 22:37:04 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA18258 for ; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:37:03 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id WAA07647 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:20:44 -0600 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:20:44 -0600 Message-Id: <199802250420.WAA07647@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #642 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, February 24 1998 Volume 01 : Number 642 In this digest: Re: IN> Interview with the Balseraph IN> Story Posting Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. Re: IN> Varying superior disturbance levels Re: IN> In Nomine Sideways Qs Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. IN> Disclaimer Re: IN> Story Posting Re: IN> Disclaimer Re: IN> Interview with the Balseraph Re: IN> Story Posting IN> Total neonate RE: IN> Total neonate IN> Hell and Gone (a poem) RE: IN> Total neonate Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. IN> Lots of stuff, on topic even (was Varying superior disturbance levels) Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. Re: IN> In Nomine Sideways Qs Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. Re: IN> Hell and Gone (a poem) Re: IN> In Nomine Sideways Qs Re: IN> Total neonate Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors Re: IN> In Nomine Sideways Qs IN> Interview with the Djinn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:07:08 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Interview with the Balseraph > In Hell, we never ask if what a Balseraph says is a lie, it doesn't > accomplish anything, makes you look silly, and you already know the > answer... Of course it is a lie, but what exactly is the lie and what > is the truth? > I'm sorry, but I can't believe I'm reading this. I am profoundly sick of the vile slander that is continually bandied about concerning my Band. Balseraphs don't lie, unless they feel a genuine desire to turn into a puddle of Discord. We're simply freethinkers, who don't feel the need to accept the same tired arguments that have been worn out by many centuries of use for the justification of atrocities, stupidity, and the like. There are, unfortunately, some members of my Band whose connection to reality is, to say the least, somewhat tenuous, but they are a minority and, ultimately, an insignificant one, since they have a tendency to turn into the aforementioned puddles of Discord, if, that is, they first survive the wrath of their Superior. Nevertheless, despite this fact, the rest of us are (if you'll forgive the inelegance of my phrasing) tarred with the same brush. We are heartily sick of it, and would like it to stop as soon as possible. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "as for their relations with others, that is a long story, but it can be expressed shortly and clearly by saying that of all people we know the Spartans are most conspicuous for believing that what they like doing is honourable and what suits their interests is just." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 09:54:29 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: IN> Story Posting So I decided I would post my newest story to the List. What the hell (er, literally). With one catch - it's 32K. Knowing that people have quotas, and huge messages turning up are usually pretty rude, I'm wondering if it's okay or if it's a hanging offense. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:28:04 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. Andrew Frades wrote: > > Raphael, Mercurian Archangel of Healing > > Healing? I would be interested in the rationale or reasonning behind > the change from Knowledge. Perhaps Nathaniel is drawing on the original source material. Raphael's name means "Healing of God." Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:28:12 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. On Mon, 23 Feb 1998, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: [Snip all kinds of really cool stuff.] > Questions? Yes. What is a 'nam-shub'? I don't recognize the word. Other than that, excellent work. Keep producing, so I can strip-mine it for ideas. :) Rich Gant ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:35:24 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Varying superior disturbance levels Neel Krishnaswami wrote: > Incidentally, there's a bit in Ellen Kushner's _Thomas the Rhymer_ > where Thomas is given a choice by the Queen of Fairy about which > of three roads to take. One is broad, neat, and well-kept; one starts > off in a bramble patch and the path only gets harder; and the last > is irrelevant to my point. :) The neat and easy road is the road > to Hell and the hard and painful one is the way to Heaven. The three ways appear in the original Ballad of Thomas the Rhymer that Kushner used as the basis for her novel. The third way was a winding country lane that led to Faerie. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:41:06 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Sideways Qs On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: > Well, the loss of angelic resonance normally associated with falling > isn't the same as Falling (being cast out of Heaven), although the > first will be caused by the second in most cases (because most > angelic resonances involve a link to Yahweh). The Malakim have the > equivalent of a demonic resonance (*not* the one given in the book), > but are still considered angels. What resonance did you give them, then? Rich Gant ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:00:29 -0500 From: Jesse Subject: Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. >> If you don't know what nam-shubs or ba'al shems are, basically, a >> ba'al shem is the Hebrew word for wizard (a gross simplification; it >> literally means something like "master of the word"). > >Exactly. The ba'al shem were powerful, self-aware individuals who >knew how to reincarnate when they died, in addition to the powers >that the nam-shubs gave them. Many of them were the priest-kings of >various empires; Moloch and Yahweh, for example. Wow. That is weird. It is kind of like Buddha-Kings in my view. Any idea when this idea came about? - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 09:59:09 -0800 (PST) From: Querent Subject: IN> Disclaimer In Nomine is just a game. Although the religious themes it deals with touch upon very firm and sacred belief systems to many people, it is in no way meant as an interpretation or alteration of those beliefs. In Nomine, and SJGames have no official stance on the validity of any one religion over any other. SJGames neither supports, endorses, nor discourages the belief, service, or summoning of angels, demons, or any otherworldly beings. In Nomine is an expanding and malleable vision. SJGames does not guarantee that questions left unanswered in currently published books will be answered or unanswered in any future publications. SJGames in no way requires players to adhere to the exact word of every rule. Players are free to ignore whichever rules they wish. GM's are permitted to change anything they wish in their own individual campaigns. Strict adherence to the rules is not required by any of SJGames customers, except where enforced by local or state laws. SJGames does not support, endorse, or discourage any of its customers in breaking local or state laws of such a nature, whether to promote creativity, express an individual perspective, or rebel against the system. The In Nomine mailing list is provided purely as a support vehicle for discussion about the In Nomine game and related topics. It is not "canon" material, and may be disregarded or accepted at will. SJGames assumes no liability for slopppy typose, badd spelign, or ungood grammer used by those who post to this list. SJGames has no knowledge of the B3 bomber. SJGames has no official stance on the situation in Albania. == --Querent, Angel of Widescreen. Mercurian Servitor of Creation. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:04:52 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Story Posting On Tue, Feb 24, 1998 at 09:54:29AM -0500, Emily Dresner wrote: > > So I decided I would post my newest story to the List. What the hell > (er, literally). With one catch - it's 32K. > > Knowing that people have quotas, and huge messages turning up are usually > pretty rude, I'm wondering if it's okay or if it's a hanging offense. > I don't mind, anyway. Probably the best idea is to break it up into sections, and post it with breaks of a day or so, so that people can move it elsewhere. It could help keep up the suspense too. ObCompletelyOffTopic: The Demon of Bouncy Castles is definitely a Calabite of Gluttony. I can't see any other explanation. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "as for their relations with others, that is a long story, but it can be expressed shortly and clearly by saying that of all people we know the Spartans are most conspicuous for believing that what they like doing is honourable and what suits their interests is just." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 19:10:18 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: IN> Disclaimer > SJGames > assumes no liability for slopppy typose, badd spelign, or ungood > grammer used by those who post to this list. What about netiquette? The world needs to know! jo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:17:27 -0500 From: Andrew Frades Subject: Re: IN> Interview with the Balseraph > I'm sorry, but I can't believe I'm reading this. I am profoundly sick of > the vile slander that is continually bandied about concerning my Band. > Balseraphs don't lie, unless they feel a genuine desire to turn into a > puddle of Discord. We're simply freethinkers, who don't feel the need to > accept the same tired arguments that have been worn out by many centuries > of use for the justification of atrocities, stupidity, and the like. There > are, unfortunately, some members of my Band whose connection to reality > is, to say the least, somewhat tenuous, but they are a minority and, > ultimately, an insignificant one, since they have a tendency to turn into > the aforementioned puddles of Discord, if, that is, they first survive the > wrath of their Superior. Nevertheless, despite this fact, the rest of us > are (if you'll forgive the inelegance of my phrasing) tarred with the same > brush. We are heartily sick of it, and would like it to stop as soon as > possible. ROFL. Thank you, I had been having a bad day. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:42:30 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Story Posting At 9:54 AM -0500 2/24/98, Emily Dresner wrote: >So I decided I would post my newest story to the List. What the hell >(er, literally). With one catch - it's 32K. > >Knowing that people have quotas, and huge messages turning up are usually >pretty rude, I'm wondering if it's okay or if it's a hanging offense. What about a "teaser" of a page or two, and then a URL? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:34:02 +0000 From: "Dave Kelly" Subject: IN> Total neonate Hello, I'm completely new to the game, and am still awaiting the postman to turn up with my rule book - I've got no idea about the game at all. I GM Kult at present, and have been looking for another game with which to torment my group of innocents, and angel/demon play sounds right up my street. Can anyone point me in the right direction for some good web sites, possibly containing an adventure or two, in order that I might get my head around game formats? Also, which supplements can you recommend? Thanks, Dave. Love is the Law Love under Will. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:41:30 -0800 From: "Steven Feldon (Exchange)" Subject: RE: IN> Total neonate The answer to this would almost certain be http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles; if the In Nomine Collection doesn't have it, it's got pointers to someone who does. I can't personally be counted on for recommendations as it would sound something like "buy all of it." Welcome! :) steve -----Original Message----- From: Dave Kelly [SMTP:davekelly@enterprise.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 1998 3:34 PM To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: IN> Total neonate Hello, I'm completely new to the game, and am still awaiting the postman to turn up with my rule book - I've got no idea about the game at all. I GM Kult at present, and have been looking for another game with which to torment my group of innocents, and angel/demon play sounds right up my street. Can anyone point me in the right direction for some good web sites, possibly containing an adventure or two, in order that I might get my head around game formats? Also, which supplements can you recommend? Thanks, Dave. Love is the Law Love under Will. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 19:47:26 -0500 From: "R. Sean Borgstrom" Subject: IN> Hell and Gone (a poem) The gate was dark and its bars were cold And the snake in charge was trillenia old That viper was senile! A serpent insane! So you can't really say that the snake was to blame That five Demon Princes to our universe came. Archangel Beth, Archivist and seafarer In the Ocean of Manuscripts with a trillion errors Was fiercefully toiling! The Ocean was boiling! When in through the door came Malphas a'roiling, Nybbas, Beleth, and Baal -- and Saminga a'spoiling. Beleth explained, "I would like a retraction; The writeup in the Marches was enemy action! A lover of Blandine's? A friend to Ethereals? Even /if/ I once loved her, it's not good game material, And if you recant it I'll make you imperial." Saminga chimed in, "I would like recognition; My superior intellect gave me my position! Mummies took genius! Zombies, inspiration! And you, ‘lizabeth, who can edit creation, Can give me my due for ... immortalization?" Nybbas said, brightly, "Now, this is my area; Gaming could use some media hysteria; I could give you the rights! Do you wish to rise higher? Just write me up well -- it'll sell like none prior, And Archivist Games will grow rich -- I'm no liar." Baal said, severely, "Your books, Revelations? I have one to make; I've been hiding my station. Satan? A wimp! Kronos? A bore! If you want the true master of Hell, look no more; Acknowledge this soon or be killed by The War." For the first time since their entrance the Archivist spoke; She said, soft and clear, "You're all pretty fine blokes. I can't make all these changes! The game'd be defiled! But if you pick /one/, it won't hurt the game's style." So the Princes left, arguing. Only Malphas still smiled. - -- Hitherby, Kyriotate of Jordi ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:48:59 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: RE: IN> Total neonate At 3:41 PM -0800 2/24/98, Steven Feldon (Exchange) wrote: >The answer to this would almost certain be >http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles; > if the In Nomine >Collection doesn't have it, it's got pointers to someone who does. There's also http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine as a nice site, with a few links of its own -- like to the main books! >I can't personally be counted on for recommendations as it would sound >something like "buy all of it." The Marches and Heaven & Hell have a great deal of info about those locations. The Angelic Player's Guide is out, and has a lot of good info, including some fixes for bugs in the main book (check the errata, oh check the errata...). The Infernal Player's Guide is not yet out, but will do the same for demons. The Liber Reliquarum will be out Soon (like, within a week or two, I think!), and has all sorts of stuff about artifacts. Night Music has information about human characters -- saints, soldiers, and a bit about undead. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:43:17 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Andrew Frades wrote: > > > > Raphael, Mercurian Archangel of Healing > > > > Healing? I would be interested in the rationale or reasonning behind > > the change from Knowledge. > > Perhaps Nathaniel is drawing on the original source material. > Raphael's name means "Healing of God." And I believe in the book of Enoch he was mentioned as "being set over all the diseases and wounds of the children of mankind", or something similar. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Married to Rev. Unibomber on 11/15/96 - be jealous ;) Meow! And finally, a special message to anyone who thinks I give a damn... \|/ ____ \|/ ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:04:08 -0500 From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: IN> Lots of stuff, on topic even (was Varying superior disturbance levels) >Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:32:53 +0000 >From: Kevin Walsh >Subject: Re: IN> Varying superior disturbance levels > >> >> You don't get a Michaeline interventions because: a) he doesn't presume >> to take God's place, and b) he's too busy, anyway. The medieval >> Catholic church named Michael as the psychopomp, the guardian of the >> souls of the dead, and I decided that I would use that. Michael makes >> sure that people get where they want to go after they die -- he's >> the reason the devil has to tempt souls rather than just kidnapping >> them. Dominic's angels of Final Judgement act as a double check, >> as well. The angels don't want to screw up in their responsibilities. >> (It would make a great adventure to kidnap a soul from beneath >> Michael's nose, and smuggle it into Hell, wouldn't it?) >> >Interesting. Except the adventure. I have trouble with the idea of being >in front of an opposed Superior, especially one with Michael's >temperament, and not dying. It renders the rebellion rather pointless, of >course. Keep in mind that Michael (in fact, everyone aside from God) is neither omnipotent nor omniscient, and that if his attention is divided across all of reality, there is opportunity for an enterprising demon. Of course, you'll want distractions and proxies and every security measure Infernal paranoia can conceive of, but manipulating your friends and enemies into distracting angels is what you do, when you're a demon. Is Lucifer's rebellion doomed to failure? It depends on what exactly the victory conditions are. If you mean Lucifer casting down God and seizing the throne of Heaven, yeah, that looks pretty unlikely right now. (Though the paranoid will note that Lucifer is the Prince of Lies and he might just want people to *think* that he has no chance.) But if you consider the loss of even a single human soul a defeat of divine omnipotence, then Lucifer hasn't been doing badly at all. It is a theory among the angels -- and human thelogians IRL -- that the serpent tempted Adam and Eve simply out of spite. >> >I'd note at this point that Novalis' and Jordi's Words are being hacked to >> >pieces at an incredible rate. The literal parts, at any rate. >> >> That's why they are as powerful as they are. Man was given dominion >> over the animals, and given the way he has abused his power, >> Jordi has been forced to take on a lot of power to succor the >> animals. >> >I tend to look at Superior strength in the opposite way. They're as strong >as their Word, and live and die with it. (The death of a Superior doesn't >destroy a Word, of course, though it should reduce it.) I tend to see word-bound angels as guardians of a particular theme in the Symphony. It's their job to make sure their word remains at the correct level of importance, neither too loud nor too soft. It's why Michael gives every one of his Mercurians a spectacular ability to end wars, and why Novalis maintains a cadre of Malakim. Demons I run more like the way you describe it. A word-bound demon is a demon whose personal symphony has a distinctive screech in it, and they can steal power from the real Symphony if they force it to play their tune. Any demon with enough raw power and political savvy can declare that he has a Word; Lucifer's acknowledgement just means that Asmodeus and Kronos record it in the annals of Hell. (Lucifer can *also* twist a demon's Forces to resonante with a word, of course.) >> Jean is a minor archangel because I like underdogs -- and in my game >> he has to contend directly against both Vapula /and/ Asmodeus. (I'll >> explain why if you're interested.) >> >Yes, go on. Okay, the idea is that there needs to be an objective reality that runs according to understandable rules in order for free will to be meaningful. If you have no ability to judge what effect your actions will have, then there is no real sense in which you have the power of choice. (This is the short form of a longer and more involved argument, but hopefully enough for my point to come across.) Jean is the guardian who makes sure that the physical world obeys the laws God laid down at the first instant of Creation. There are angels of Jean responsible for such things as making sure planets stay in their orbits and electrons obey Schrodinger's wave equations. Now, compare this to the Game, where the rules change at the whim of the Dark Prince, and there are no constants and no principles that anyone can rely on. If Asmodeus got his way, all of reality right down to basic physical law would be utterly changeable. You can see how Jean and Asmodeus would get along like cats and monkeys. In my game, Yves didn't hand off scientific knowledge to Jean, since Jean knew all that already. Instead, he asked Jean to watch over human scientists and engineers, who investigated the truths of the physical world. Just a slight change of emphasis, really. >> >> >> I don't want to use any Princes other than the main rulebook ones, > >That's fair enough, though I'd point out that Mammon is traditional. Yeah. I am thinking of renaming Haagenti to Mammon, and simply declaring that his word is Greed. It would bring a familiar face to the game, at no extra effort. (I'm about 80% certain I'll change Belial to Moloch, as well.) >> not unless one of the PCs manages to usurp one of the thrones of Hell. >> Mammon IMC was a Habbalah who Voided himself a few centuries ago, and >> got chopped up and eaten by the other princes (in Haagenti's case, >> literally). >> >I have difficulty with the game description of taking Emptiness in a >backlash. It's implied that you can suppress it, but it's dissonant for >you not to suppress it anyway, so there's no reason not to. I reckon, IMC, >it won't be possible to suppress it, with the additional note that if >another Habbalite inflicts it on you and you fail to resist, you get >dissonance for that as well. I just checked the book, and that sure looks like a goof to me. Another thing I've been thinking about is that I might limit the Habbalah resonance to invoking overwhelming passions. If they can create subtle emotions as well, then their resonance overlaps too much with the Impudite resonance, IMHO. I might also allow Habbalah to implant one-word commands, so that a Habbalah at a subway platform can beam "Jump!" at humans. But this needs playtesting before I decide for sure. (I freely admit I stole this idea from one of Jo Hart's stories. :) [Superior disturbance levels] >What can be a universal is that certain Superiors tend to be noisy while >others don't. So Jean is noisy because noise is a direct consequence of >lightning, he's furthering his Word. Others might be noisy because they >want to discourage their Servitors from summoning them all the time. And >Words like Theft should be silent. Good point. I'll have to think about this some more, clearly. - ---- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:55:14 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. > > Alain, Kyriotate Archangel of Animals > > I would imagine the name changed to move it away from the mideval > English that Alain comes from. Makes sense. None of these are the Celestial names of the Archangels, simply the names that they use most nowadays when speaking corporeally, so I have no problem with names that aren't rooted in Hebrew. > > Gabriel, Cherub Archangel of Stone > > A nice twist on game and in world canon. Especially if Gabriel > keeps David's role as the teacher of humanity, it fits in rather > well with the role of the AA in Christian theology. Well, I realized in reading up on the Archangels, in Christian and Hebrew lore, that a lot of the names were wrong. Gabriel (which means "God is my Strength") was more associated with protection than with punishment. Uriel was the angel that meeted out punishment, although that office was taken later by the angel Chamael. > > Janus, Ophanim Archangel of Wind > > If you don't like the name, might I suggest Sheriah. It means wind. I like it. Thank you. > > Yves, Elohim Archangel of Destiny > > I must admit to rather liking Yves from IN canon, so it be best not > to comment here. Well, I like him from canon, too, but that interpretation doesn't mesh with my interpretation of the Symphony, so he is downgraded. > > Former Archangels: > > > > Raphael, Mercurian Archangel of Healing > > Healing? I would be interested in the rationale or reasonning > behind the change from Knowledge. It might be more interseting to > give him Zadkiel's place of Protection and call his sacrifice the > ultimate way to protect... This of course would also mean that many > of the classic Gaurdian Angel types might have disappeared about > that time explaining why not everyone has a Gaurdian Angel > anymore... Knowledge fit too well under Destiny's place to be a good right, and also the depiction of Raphael in classic literature is more one of protection and healing. Protection would be a good word, too; the connotations are nearly the same. It'll probably come out somewhere inbetween the two. Plus (as another poster reminded me) Raphael means God Has Healed. > > Oannes, Grigori Archangel of Water > > Not sure I buy Oannes as a Grigori. Water and Humanity were > historically farther apart than this implies. Humanity for many > of its formative cultural years fought hard to earn an existance > from the Water, if one of the Watchers were involved I would > imagine the water being more impartial and less of an adversary to > be overcome simply to survive. My rationale: 1) I stole a good bit of this from Snow Crash and the story of Enki. Enki was (at least in Snow Crash) the god of water and fertility, and I liked the associations given in the book. 2) The Grigori were(/are) angels of Creation and Fertility, not Watching. Their status as Watchers is merely one of position, not one of association. They were actively involved when they were still angels. However, very little culture or history remains from that period, as humanity just wasn't the same before it. 3) For much of the middle ages, water was viewed as an "evil" element (in fact, up until the industrial age; read "The Tales of Alvin Maker" for a good example). I figured this wasn't just a regular occurance, but was emphasized by angels saying that Water (meaning Oannes and the Grigori) was evil. 4) Three elementals exist, but not a fourth. That just didn't make sense; I figured Yahweh would go for symmetry. > Hmmm... adding on to my former post. Very interesting idea though, > perhaps Oannes is not a Grigori, but many of them serve him. Perhaps > he is an Elohite and is now the gaurdian of the Grigori on Earth. > Either way welcome to the three sides of the power triangle. No - the Archangels are the first of their Choir, with the exception of Eli (who filled the shoes of both Oannes and Raphael, but officially replaced Raphael, and thus had to be Mercurian). It isn't as mystical as it sounds; Yahweh was the only one who really could understand how to create a new resonance, and didn't have time to sit around making all the angels. So he made a bunch of different molds, and told them to work off of themselves and each other. When the head of one of the choirs went bad, he tossed out the entire choir for safety (much like many people would toss out a loaf of bread if it had a few spots). Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@mci2000.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:55:14 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Sideways Qs > > Well, the loss of angelic resonance normally associated with falling > > isn't the same as Falling (being cast out of Heaven), although the > > first will be caused by the second in most cases (because most > > angelic resonances involve a link to Yahweh). The Malakim have the > > equivalent of a demonic resonance (*not* the one given in the book), > > but are still considered angels. > > You've mentioned this twice already. Can you post all the resonances > you've invented for your game and specify which ones you're keeping? The resonances are, for almost everyone but Malakim, the same, although my explainations behind them sometimes fall short. The Malakim resonance I'm not certain of yet; it has to be a will based one of some sort, but beyond that I'm (currently) stumped. I don't want a duplicate of the Calabim resonance, but that's the only thing I can think of for the symbolism involved (fire and punishment, from their origin with Uriel). Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@mci2000.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:55:14 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. > On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: > > > If you don't know what nam-shubs or ba'al shems are, basically, a > > > ba'al shem is the Hebrew word for wizard (a gross simplification; it > > > literally means something like "master of the word"). > > > > Exactly. The ba'al shem were powerful, self-aware individuals who > > knew how to reincarnate when they died, in addition to the powers > > that the nam-shubs gave them. Many of them were the priest-kings of > > various empires; Moloch and Yahweh, for example. > > Hrm. I'm interested in seeing where this is headed, but could you > start doing it chronologically again? It's a bit disconcerting to > suddenly find out Yahweh's "just" a ba'al shem out of context. :) Well, he's more now. But sure, I'll go back... > > > Nathaniel (does your name translate into anything cool? :) > > Given/Gift of God. Hootie-hoo. > Neat. Anyone know if Raoul means anything? Ralph, AFAIK. I don't have the baby book w/ me, so I can't tell you what Ralph means (at least, not what it was intended to mean). Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@mci2000.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:08:37 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> Hell and Gone (a poem) > For the first time since their entrance the Archivist spoke; > She said, soft and clear, "You're all pretty fine blokes. > I can't make all these changes! The game'd be defiled! > But if you pick /one/, it won't hurt the game's style." > So the Princes left, arguing. Only Malphas still smiled. Hehe. Good stuff... Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@mci2000.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:55:14 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Sideways Qs > > Well, the loss of angelic resonance normally associated with falling > > isn't the same as Falling (being cast out of Heaven), although the > > first will be caused by the second in most cases (because most > > angelic resonances involve a link to Yahweh). The Malakim have the > > equivalent of a demonic resonance (*not* the one given in the book), > > but are still considered angels. > > What resonance did you give them, then? I have absolutely *no* idea yet. I only realized recently that the canon resonance wouldn't work in my campaign. Anybody got a cool Will-based resonance that would fit their idiom (fire & punishment) and is not a direct steal from the Calabim (which is all I can think up)? Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@mci2000.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:23:56 -0500 From: Andrew Frades Subject: Re: IN> Total neonate > Can anyone point me in the right direction for some good web sites, > possibly containing an adventure or two, in order that I might get my > head around game formats? > > Also, which supplements can you recommend? www.SJGames.com has a number of links to othe sites with adventures and an overview of all the available projects. Look especially under the Resources links on the IN page. IMO Night Music and Heaven and Hell are almost as important as the core rules if for nothing more than canon. The Angelic Players Guide is great if for only the PC creation outlines in the back. The only negative with the core rules is that they are a bit disjoint, particularly in the area of character creation. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 03:36:24 +0000 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors Drake writes >For a while, I have wondered at the capabilities of the Archangels and >Demon Princes of In Nomine. As in how many Forces they have, what songs, >skills, and attunements they possess, etc. I've done some work with >them, but have yet to be satisfied with the outcome, so I have decided >to come to here and ask for suggestions. I know there are some out there >that would prefer for the Superiors not to be given stats, but I'm >curious as to what they would be like. I know they won't fit into the >current game mechanics, or at least, not very easily. My quest is not to >fit them within the game mechanics, but to simply classify them. Ok here >goes.. > >WORDS - Every Superior has one, and controls basically his or her power >levels. If the Word is strong,the Superior is strong, etc. Unlike >regular Word-bound Angels, Superiors are affected by their Word's >influence to a much greater level. This in effect, basically controls >the number of Forces a Superior has. Every Archangel and Demon Prince >has numerous powers that directly come from their Word. These usually >manifest themselves as Attunements. > >FORCES - This has been the greatest point of disagreement that I have >seen thus far; How many Forces does a Superior have? Given their >disturbance on the Corporeal Plane, it suggests perhaps either 20-30 >total, or roughly 20 or so Corporeal and 30 or so Celestially. Some have >suggested that Superiors should have hundreds of Forces and others have >said nearly unlimited. Personally, I'm not sure anymore how many Forces >they should have. I Like this. Hopefully I'll be of more use when I've had some sleep |-| But for the time being, H&H mentions Etecius - Seneschal of the Supreme Court building in Washington as having 21 forces. Also, in the same book, The Sergeant at Arms of the Seraphim Council is listed as having 18 forces and 'many attunements'. It is also said of him that "...nobody argues with Martenas.". If this is the case, then I would suggest that your are correct within the 20-30 forces range (approx). Must.. go.. bed.. now. |-P - -- Jules - Demon of jules@bigjules.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:59:19 -0500 From: Andrew Frades Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Sideways Qs Nathaniel Eliot wrote: > > What resonance did you give them, then? > > I have absolutely *no* idea yet. I only realized recently that the > canon resonance wouldn't work in my campaign. Anybody got a cool > Will-based resonance that would fit their idiom (fire & punishment) > and is not a direct steal from the Calabim (which is all I can think > up)? Hmmm. This is something I've been thinking about since I first read the game and wondered about Malakim falling. This is something I thought up, and though it is a combination resonance (uses both perception and will) it might fit the bill... A Malakite may with a perception resonance check detect the acts of a target that the target views as heinous. The check digit of this check is a measure of the severity of the act within the targets own code of honor. If the Malakite chooses they may enact the second part of their resonance at any time in the future (though he severity of the act may grow smaller over time [GM call]). When enacting their second resonance the target begins to burn in celestial flames with a damaging power equal to the check digit of the original resonance roll. Treat the second (will based) resonance roll as a modifier to the power of the first roll. This is taken as damage to their Body Hits. The target gets a will roll to resist the second resonance roll and if this is successful the resonance has no effect and not only would that particular deed be incapable of punishing the target again, but if applicable, the target may be inspired to repent their sins and perhaps redeem. Just a thought and a poorly written one at that. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:26:03 GMT+10 From: "Leath Sheales" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: IN> Interview with the Djinn Interview with the Djinn. !WARNING!- This one contains a little bit of bad language. Hey! Yeah, I'm here. I had nothin' better to do anyway, so here I am. So, whaddya wanta know? What? What it's like to be a Djinn? Jeeze, I dunno why you'd care 'bout stuff like that, I sure as Hell don't. I mean, I am one, so why care about what it's like? Anyway, like I said, I'm not doin' anythin' better, so I'll bullshit on with you for a while. Where d'you want to start? Doesn't worry me either way. The Fall? Okay. When Lucifer started his little Rebellion, he promised us that we'd have the freedom to do what we wanted after God was gone. He was a Seraph, we believed his words, so some Cherubim followed him. Now your basic Cherub is an jerk. He gets all up-tight bonded to something, then gets stroppy if you go and break it on him. Heh, some are cool enough, like Dominic's. They can 'tune themselves into someone then beat the snot outta him under the pretense of Judgement. Heh, but Dom's a jerk nobody likes. Kinda like Azzie but with a bigger stick shoved up his butt. I heard that Lucifer's Rebellion kinda twisted him and he fell but refused to accept it, like a Habbalite. So now he's like the ultimate Balseraph, lying to himself that he's still an angel and always wearin' those stupid robes in case someone notices. Heh, anyway, who cares? It makes no difference to me, but it's a cool thought. Anyway, the Rebellion happened, Lucy Fell, blah blah, old news, who cares? So here we are, the Djinn, spent all our stupid Cherubic lives guarding crap and Lucifer says "You're free". So we don't have to guard any more. None of this stupid "tying your Forces to a stupid human" or nothin'. A few of 'em couldn't cut it, 'tuned 'emselves stupidly to everything, trying to gain their old lives back. End up breaking the things they 'tuned to from anger and make 'emselves Dissonant as Hell. The rest of us are smart, see? We realise that we don't have to care, so we're not gonna. See, we can wander 'round the place, not giving a shit 'bout nothin'. Sometimes we 'tune ourselves to something, just for the Hell of it, you know, not 'cause we care 'bout it, just 'cause we can! Then if you're lucky, you can kill it or have it killed, then step back and say "That didn't hurt", not like a stupid Cherub who'd be crying on the floor. Anyway, that's about what it's like to be a Djinn. We don't care and we love it! You payin' for the drinks? Cool. I just had the coffee. No.. don't.. stop, DON'T TAKE MY FRIGGING CUP, YOU BASTARD, IT'S MINE!! What? No, I don't care, it's just a cool cup, think I'll hang onto it for a while. Piss off. Call me again someday, or don't. I don't care. By Leath Sheales. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #642 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.