From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Feb 25 10:05:44 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA30793 for ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:05:44 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id JAA16410 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:08:58 -0600 Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:08:58 -0600 Message-Id: <199802251508.JAA16410@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #643 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, February 25 1998 Volume 01 : Number 643 In this digest: IN> Shifting perspective Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors Re: IN> In Nomine Sideways Qs Re: IN> In Nomine Sideways Qs Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors IN> Malakite "Fire and Judgment" Resonance Suggestion Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. IN> Interview with an Ofanim IN> What's in a name (was Re: An attempt to inject understanding) Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors Re: IN> Lots of stuff, on topic even Re: IN> What's in a name (was Re: An attempt to inject understanding) Re: IN> Lots of stuff, on topic even (was Varying superior disturbance levels) Re: IN> Shifting perspective Re: IN> Story Posting IN> Story Teaser - THE LETTER TO GOD IN> Question about Grey Lilim and Malakim Re: IN> Question about Grey Lilim and Malakim ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:42:20 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: IN> Shifting perspective On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Pee Kitty wrote: > On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > Raphael's name means "Healing of God." > > And I believe in the book of Enoch he was mentioned as "being set over all > the diseases and wounds of the children of mankind", or something similar. Just to show how a slight change on perspective can change things drastically.... I chose Raphiel as the name for the AA of Justice in my campaign based upon those references. The idea being that evil is a disease and injustice a wound upon the Symphony, Raphiel brings healing to the world through the cleansing flame of Justice. Thus we get Raphiel, Elohite AA of Justice, whose Word encompasses the aspects of both Fire and Judgement: adjudication and punishment in one nice, dispassionate package. Did I mention he was a former servitor of Uriel? Justice is a form of Purification, after all. If there's enough interest, I'll post my Genealogy of Angels (who served under whom before getting the AA title.) - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 03:18:31 +0000 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors Drake wrote: >>For a while, I have wondered at the capabilities of the Archangels and >>Demon Princes of In Nomine. As in how many Forces they have, what songs, >>skills, and attunements they possess, etc. I've done some work with >>them, but have yet to be satisfied with the outcome, so I have decided >>to come to here and ask for suggestions. I know there are some out there >>that would prefer for the Superiors not to be given stats, but I'm >>curious as to what they would be like. I know they won't fit into the >>current game mechanics, or at least, not very easily. My quest is not to >>fit them within the game mechanics, but to simply classify them. Ok here >>goes.. > Frank wrote: >While I understand your desire, my reaction is the same as to the original >Dieties and Demigods. Give stats to the gods and they become heavy Hit >Dice targets for the Trophy Seekers. As far as I see it,if player >characters are going to off a Superior the only way is by the help of >either another Superior or by a relic that's so powerful that giving it >stats is an equally meaningless task. I've often heard this claim. That if you stat up a diety then certain players will only find ways to topple it. Yet, being honest, I have never, ever, seen this happen. I don't deny that it does, and I appreciate that there are many power games out there, but that doesn't mean that the player characters IMC will ever get that tough and neither should yours if you don't desire them to. Giving *full* stats to Superiors isn't really necessary, granted, but having relative power levels would be helpful. Take the case of Furfur in NM. One minute he is a nicely defined Baron of *X* forces and *X* powers, and the next he's a Prince and thus off the scale. And what *does* happen if Haagenti tries to eat Mammon? - -- Jules - Demon of Late Night Indigestion jules@bigjules.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:02:28 -0500 (EST) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Sideways Qs On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: > I have absolutely *no* idea yet. I only realized recently that the > canon resonance wouldn't work in my campaign. Anybody got a cool > Will-based resonance that would fit their idiom (fire & punishment) > and is not a direct steal from the Calabim (which is all I can think > up)? Not sure about the fire aspect, but try this anyway: instead of sensing honor, they impose their own code upon others. If a demon or wicked human is suddenly forced to adhere to a code of honor that they don't agree with, I'd call that rather poetic punishment. - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:03:41 -0500 (EST) From: Raoul Duke Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Sideways Qs On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Nathaniel Eliot wrote: > > What resonance did you give [Malakim], then? > I have absolutely *no* idea yet. I only realized recently that the > canon resonance wouldn't work in my campaign. Anybody got a cool > Will-based resonance that would fit their idiom (fire & punishment) > and is not a direct steal from the Calabim (which is all I can think > up)? This is a steal from Marvel's second Ghost Rider, but what about a mental attack (doing Mind Hits), that forces the cruel to suffer the pain they've inflicted (possibly inflicting Merciful or similar Discords, to simulate repentance)? This is a variation of the Calabim one, but a) it is more specific, not lending itself to mass destruction (say, it only works on their current target, if Uriel's orders to his Malakim are similar to canon Gabriel's) and b) has a nicer flavor to it. Joe - ------ Big Brother's watching? Learn to become Invisible. "Looking at my action figure, it occurred to me that that's not a bad way to face the world: gorgeous, heavily-armed, and distinctively masked." - -- Amy Rambow, contemplating Cosmic Angela How I waste my time: http://acs1.bu.edu:8001/~arie/rpg.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:12:38 -0500 (EST) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Julian Breen wrote: > I've often heard this claim. That if you stat up a diety then certain > players will only find ways to topple it. Yet, being honest, I have > never, ever, seen this happen. I have. If the GM isn't experienced enough to know what to do to avoid this, it CAN happen, even against his will. > having relative power levels would be helpful. Take the case of Furfur > in NM. One minute he is a nicely defined Baron of *X* forces and *X* > powers, and the next he's a Prince and thus off the scale. I agree that relative power levels could be useful, as long as they are fairly general and vague. > And what *does* happen if Haagenti tries to eat Mammon? Whatever fits the GM's storyline best. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian (Married to Rev. Unibomber on 11/15/96 - be jealous ;) Meow! And finally, a special message to anyone who thinks I give a damn... \|/ ____ \|/ ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:27:47 -0500 From: Frank Lazar Subject: Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors >Drake wrote: > >And what *does* happen if Haagenti tries to eat Mammon? > Well, considering that you're the Gamemaster and in control of both, you'd already have an answer to that, no? - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | _ | | We are dreamers, shapers, singers and makers. /_\ | | We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, // \\ | | Crystal and scanner, holographic demons, \\ //___\\ | | And invocations of equations. \\ // \\ | | \\__// \\ | | These are the tools we employ. And we know... many things. \\ | | \\ | | | Frank Lazar http://www.interactive.net/~fmlazar | \\ | - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 00:38:47 -0500 From: "R. Sean Borgstrom" Subject: IN> Malakite "Fire and Judgment" Resonance Suggestion The Malakim are angels of honor, and their resonance is used to torment the dishonorable. With a successful resonance roll, the angel can force their victim to betray the horrors within them, spewing forth a confession of their general or specific unworthiness. The victim can, of course, resist with a Will roll. Whether the victim makes their roll or not, they will suffer the check digit in Mind hits as they confront their most unpleasant deeds inside their head. This resonance cannot be used on the victim again until they have performed a new villainous deed. Malakim Check Digit Results 1 -- If the victim believes themselves to be morally inadequate, and they are given the excuse, they will admit to this. 2 -- If the victim has done something dishonorable recently, and they are given the excuse, they will admit to this. They do not have to give details, and honor is measured by their own standards. 3 -- If the victim has done something dishonorable recently, or believes themselves to be morally inadequate, they will admit to this, even if the timing is inappropriate. 4 -- The victim will confess to one or two despicable things, if they can think of them and the timing is not completely terrible. 5 -- The victim cannot be prevented from spilling out a confession of every dishonorable deed, thought, and belief they can think of. Honor is measured relative to their own moral standards. One or two of these might be made up on the spot, as the pressure to confess /something/ crushes the victim's defenses -- although they will know in their hearts that these things never happened. 6 -- The victim cannot be prevented from spilling out a nauseating confession of a compendium of damning deeds, thoughts, and beliefs. Many of these will be made up on the spot, although the victim will believe what they are saying absolutely. - -- That's off the top of my head, anyway :) - -- Hitherby ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:20:17 From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors >Drake Suggested >>For a while, I have wondered at the capabilities of the Archangels and >>Demon Princes of In Nomine. As in how many Forces they have, what songs, >>skills, and attunements they possess, etc. I've done some work with >>them, but have yet to be satisfied with the outcome, so I have decided >>to come to here and ask for suggestions. I know there are some out there >>that would prefer for the Superiors not to be given stats, but I'm >>curious as to what they would be like. I know they won't fit into the >>current game mechanics, or at least, not very easily. My quest is not to >>fit them within the game mechanics, but to simply classify them. Ok here >>goes.. > >Frank Responded >While I understand your desire, my reaction is the same as to the original >Dieties and Demigods. Give stats to the gods and they become heavy Hit >Dice targets for the Trophy Seekers. As far as I see it,if player >characters are going to off a Superior the only way is by the help of >either another Superior or by a relic that's so powerful that giving it >stats is an equally meaningless task. > >Julian commented >> having relative power levels would be helpful. Take the case of Furfur >> in NM. One minute he is a nicely defined Baron of *X* forces and *X* >> powers, and the next he's a Prince and thus off the scale. > >Pee Kitty responded >I agree that relative power levels could be useful, as long as they are >fairly general and vague. I tend towards the abstract and freeform for anything over 18 total forces. As a Word Bound Angel of Over 18 Forces in my mind is the sort of entity who has a fair number of servitors who have anything up to 18 Forces then they should be much bigger than their servitors, a figure like 100 Forces occurs to me. And given that Arch Angels (and DP's) can have a fair number of these sort of Word Bound working for them they should have even more Forces, the figure 1000 springs irresistably to mind. This set up also reinforces the "flash you're dead" aspect of directly facing up to any Superior. If there wasn't this sort of rise in power as you went up in the hierarchy, or down the lowerarchy, then I feel there would be a lot more upward movement, as opposed to the downwards movement we hear about amongst Demons who's ambition attracts their Superior's attention. As far as Songs, Skills and generally just being able bend whole lot of the universe into a pretzel I tend to give Word Bound Non AA or DP's a lot of creative ability to do stuff within the scope of their Word, and AA and DP's even more in general and "don't even think about it" level within their own Word. OTOH it occurs to me that anytime a PC is directly opposing a Major Word Bound (Over 18 Forces) he better be hoping for those Intervention rolls to come up or have a doosie of a plot twist to pull. Thanking you for your indulgence. Regards, Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au May the Goddess shelter you in the palm of her hand until we meet again. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:44:22 +1100 From: christopher.stevenson@aihw.gov.au (Chris Stevenson) Subject: Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors >>Drake wrote: >> >>And what *does* happen if Haagenti tries to eat Mammon? >> > > Well, considering that you're the Gamemaster and in control of both, >you'd already have an answer to that, no? > >| | Frank Lazar http://www.interactive.net/~fmlazar | \\ | I concur, adding what happens is what makes for the best story. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 01:56:52 +0000 From: Nathaniel Eliot Subject: Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors > >>And what *does* happen if Haagenti tries to eat Mammon? > > > > Well, considering that you're the Gamemaster and in control of > >both, you'd already have an answer to that, no? > > I concur, adding what happens is what makes for the best story. Well, I'll step in here and say "no, I won't always have an answer". Some GMs like to have a world that runs 'realistically', as opposed to 'dramatically' - it is hard to even guess at a realistic outcome without some sort of markers to go against. By contrast it is easy to say "not in my game, they aren't" if you don't like the results it would give, or if you prefer dramatic results. So I tend to be in favor of Superiors having statistics. Most likely I'd give them around 120 forces for Archangels, and around 75 forces for Demon Princes. For the most part they would be concentrated in Ethereal and Celestial, but I could see David, Belial, or other of the more warlike Superiors as having lots of Corporeal Forces as well. That makes them neigh untouchable by beginning celestials, but not so powerful that their level couldn't be attained during a long campaign. (Totally off subject, but if Superiors have Celestial Forces running in the 30s or 40s, no wonder they don't fight. It would take them forever to whittle away just one of those forces; they'd have simply obscene celestial hits, on top of a huge supply of Forces to loose) Nathaniel Eliot temujin9@mci2000.com "It's the eternal question, really; to be a slave in Heaven, or a star in Hell. But sometimes Hell doesn't look like Hell. On a good day, it can look like LA." - Playing God ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 06:59:22 +0000 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. At 20:55 24/02/98 +0000, you wrote: > > >> > Janus, Ophanim Archangel of Wind >> >> If you don't like the name, might I suggest Sheriah. It means wind. Ru'ach would be better for wind IMO ;-) (Because as well as literally translateing as wind, it is also used to mean 'spirit of God' in some verses, such as the verse in genesis which is usually translated 'the spirit of God moved over the face of the waters') jo - ---------- "I like getting into hot water, it keeps me clean." G. K. Chesterton jhart@btinternet.com -- http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~jhart/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:38:29 -0800 From: Armand Subject: Re: IN> An attempt to inject understanding. >> Neat. Anyone know if Raoul means anything? > >Ralph, AFAIK. I don't have the baby book w/ me, so I can't tell you >what Ralph means (at least, not what it was intended to mean). > Old English: "wolf-counselor" Armand (French for Herman 0) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:41:27 -0800 From: Armand Subject: IN> Interview with an Ofanim Sorry, gotta run... Armand ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 02:48:10 -0500 (EST) From: Raoul Duke Subject: IN> What's in a name (was Re: An attempt to inject understanding) On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Armand wrote: > >> Neat. Anyone know if Raoul means anything? > >Ralph, AFAIK. I don't have the baby book w/ me, so I can't tell you > >what Ralph means (at least, not what it was intended to mean). > Old English: "wolf-counselor" Hey, that's pretty groovy! Beats me what they'd need to be counseled about, tho... IN context, um... Is Haagenti an actual demonic name? Similarly, is Jordi a real saint? You know, there should really be a FAQ about that sort of thing. Joe - ------ Big Brother's watching? Learn to become Invisible. "Looking at my action figure, it occurred to me that that's not a bad way to face the world: gorgeous, heavily-armed, and distinctively masked." - -- Amy Rambow, contemplating Cosmic Angela How I waste my time: http://acs1.bu.edu:8001/~arie/rpg.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:00:53 +1100 From: christopher.stevenson@aihw.gov.au (Chris Stevenson) Subject: Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors >> I concur, adding what happens is what makes for the best story. >Well, I'll step in here and say "no, I won't always have an answer". >Some GMs like to have a world that runs 'realistically', as opposed >to 'dramatically' - it is hard to even guess at a realistic outcome >without some sort of markers to go against. By contrast it is easy >to say "not in my game, they aren't" if you don't like the results it >would give, or if you prefer dramatic results. Realism in a world of supernatural things? An interesting notion. :-) Unless a player is controlling an arch beast, isn't the result the impact of one GM-defined thing against another GM-defined thing? I would think that all these GM-defined things form a cosmic balance, realistic or not, and the outcome would be patent. Granted a realistic determination requires some frame of reference, but why must it be quantifiable? Surely a qualitative assessment would serve as well. But by saying 'not in my game', isn't the GM invalidating his or her own quantifiable argument? > >Nathaniel Eliot The players, those wily beasts, smell the indecision of their prey... they position themselves for the kill... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:20:38 -0000 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: IN> Lots of stuff, on topic even Neel wrote: >Okay, the idea is that there needs to be an objective reality that >runs according to understandable rules in order for free will to be >meaningful. <...> >Now, compare this to the Game, where the rules change at the whim >of the Dark Prince, and there are no constants and no principles >that anyone can rely on. This is interesting (to me) as it dovetails neatly with the views of heaven, hell etc that I've been bouncing around recently. Heaven is a place of holistic and perfect objectivity. Every part of it resonates in the same way to every angel or blessed soul, regardless of choir, power level or word. In fact, the vision is so comprehensively identical that entities are unable to enter heaven if their connection with the symphony is not sufficiently strong. What one entity perceives is subject to the blinkers of its own perception but at the end of the day, everyone can agree that heaven is heavenly and what is true for one observer will be true for all. Seraphim do all perceive the same truths, and are capable of agreeing on this, although even the most holy must make allowances for shadings of personal opinion. A seraph which is no longer capable of distinguishing between its personal opinions and the truths which it has perceived is on the way to falling (it is just that most of them choose to have personal opinions -- but can put them aside if so requested). (In contrast, it's quite possible to have two balseraphs which hold personal truths that directly contradict each other. A fun game for angels of Judgement involves capturing two balseraphs and telling them seperately that the other one is a heretic and that whichever one can persuade the other to confess to its lies will be allowed to go free.) The marches are a fluid place of limited objectivity. Each dreamer creates a small dreamscape around themselves which cannot affect anyone else. Even to celestials, the marches will tend to react differently to each entity within them, apart from the areas around Blandine & Beleth's towers. There is no guarantee that what you see is the same as what anyone else sees, although on a symbolic level, there should be some consistency. Hell is hell. Each realm is a model of perfect subjectivity. Even the laws of physics cannot be guaranteed to be consistent from day to day, or place to place, unless a demon prince wills them so. An artefact which worked perfectly in Tartarus may fail in Hades. (Of course, if a project looks as though it might not work, Vapula is quite likely to change the local laws of physics to help it along, so even from one laboratory to the next nothing is guaranteed -- this is how he got the reputation for making things that don't work. People just don't understand that they do work really! You just have to tweak the laws of physics a bit.. but I digress ;)). But it is worse than the marches, because the subjectivity is imposed by a superior. Its like living in someone else's subconscious, and the someone-else isn't precisely sane. This leaves Shal-Mari, shared between 4 superiors, as one of the more stable segments of Hell but even so the local laws of nature are liable to ebb and flow and it is quite possible to turn a corner and suddenly find that your gun has turned into a banana and all your clothes are suddenly see-through. So where does this leave the corporeal world? Well, this is what the war is all about ;- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 02:46:18 -0800 From: Armand Subject: Re: IN> What's in a name (was Re: An attempt to inject understanding) >On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Armand wrote: >> >> Neat. Anyone know if Raoul means anything? >> >Ralph, AFAIK. I don't have the baby book w/ me, so I can't tell you >> >what Ralph means (at least, not what it was intended to mean). >> Old English: "wolf-counselor" >Hey, that's pretty groovy! Beats me what they'd need to be counseled >about, tho... >Joe I think that it refers to someone having traits associated with wolves. Kind of like Mordred meant "Dark Counsel". His enemies knew something dark was coming. Just a theory.. Armand ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:47:17 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Lots of stuff, on topic even (was Varying superior disturbance levels) > > Now, compare this to the Game, where the rules change at the whim > of the Dark Prince, and there are no constants and no principles > that anyone can rely on. If Asmodeus got his way, all of reality right > down to basic physical law would be utterly changeable. You can > see how Jean and Asmodeus would get along like cats and monkeys. > As a side note, I'd recommend reading The Gulag Archipelago by Alexander Solzhenitsyn for anyone interested in portraying the Game in a very dark light. It's about the penal system under the Soviet Union, and although it's a bit scattered, most of it is well worth reading. (Most of the first volume, anyway. I don't have the others.) Of particular note is the description given of Article 58 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR, and the treatment meted out to those Russian prisoners of war who were "rescued" by the Red Army in WWII. Can you guess the differences in sentencing between those prisoners of war who escaped and returned to the army or to the partisans and those who stayed on in the POW camps and helped the German camp administration? Some useful quotes follow. Firstly, an example of a genuine case. "Here is another example of broad interpretation. I remember well an encounter in the Butyrki in the summer of 1946. A certain Pole had been born in Lemberg when that city was part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Until World War II he lived in his native city, by then located in Poland; then he went to Austria, where he entered the service, and in 1945 he was arrested there by the Russians. Since by this time Austrian Lemberg had become Ukrainian Lvov, he received a tenner under Article 54-1a of the Ukrainian Criminal Code: ie, for treason to his motherland, the Ukraine! And at his interrogation the poor fellow couldn't prove that treason to the Ukraine had not been his purpose when he went to Vienna!" And concerning sentencing policy... "The real law underlying the arrests of those years was the assignment of quotas, the norms set, the planned allocations. Every city, every district, every military unit was assigned a specific quota of arrests to be carried out by a stipulated time. From then on everything else depended on the ingenuity of the Security operations personnel." And concerning the nature of the bourgeois concepts of guilt and innocence... "Vyshinsky, availing himself of the most flexible dialectics...pointed out in a report which became famous in certain circles that it is never possible for mortal men to establish absolute truth, but relative truth only. He then proceeded to a further step, which jurists of the last two thousand years had not been willing to take: that the truth established by interrogation and trial could not be absolute but only, so to speak, relative. Therefore, when we sign a sentence ordering someone to be shot we can never be absolutely certain, but only approximately, in view of certain hypotheses, and in a certain sense, that we are punishing a guilty person. Thence arose the most practical conclusion: that it was useless to seek absolute evidence--for evidence is always relative--or unchallengable witnesses--for they can say different things at different times. The proofs of guilt were relative, approximate, and the interrogator could fine them, even when there was no evidence and no witness, without leaving his office, "basing his conclusions not only on his own intellect but also on his Party sensitivity, his moral forces" (in other words, the superiority of someone who had slept well, has been well fed, and has not been beaten up) "and on his character" (ie, his willingness to apply cruelty!)... In only one respect did Vyshinsky fail to be consistent and retreat from dialectical logic: for some reason, the executioner's bullet which he allowed was not relative but absolute..." There are a lot more, but I would be sitting here all day looking for them, so I'll stop here. > > Another thing I've been thinking about is that I might limit the > Habbalah resonance to invoking overwhelming passions. If they can > create subtle emotions as well, then their resonance overlaps too > much with the Impudite resonance, IMHO. Indeed. The Habbalite resonance is less overpowering if it's blatantly obvious when it's been used, and this would be consistent with the implication that once you've failed the Will roll, you can't be reasonable in the way you follow your emotions. It only occured to me yesterday that Calabim of Factions are, in a sense, anti-Habbalah. They can make you feel utterly apathetic towards anything. I certainly think that the closest Habbalah should be able to come to that is the use of Emptiness. I might also allow Habbalah > to implant one-word commands, so that a Habbalah at a subway platform > can beam "Jump!" at humans. But this needs playtesting before > I decide for sure. (I freely admit I stole this idea from one of > Jo Hart's stories. :) > I got the impression that Hobson was implanting a strong desire to move in one particular direction in people. (I hate to think how high his Will must be for that to be reliable.) Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "as for their relations with others, that is a long story, but it can be expressed shortly and clearly by saying that of all people we know the Spartans are most conspicuous for believing that what they like doing is honourable and what suits their interests is just." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:34:49 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Shifting perspective > Just to show how a slight change on perspective can change things > drastically.... > > I chose Raphiel as the name for the AA of Justice in my campaign based > upon those references. The idea being that evil is a disease and > injustice a wound upon the Symphony, Raphiel brings healing to the world > through the cleansing flame of Justice. > If ya follow my game logs, you'll notice that I do have Raphael running around. He's a Mercurian. People think. People HOPE. It would be a problem if his wings were a little more leathery then they appear, and his halo was a little darker then people would like. (Heh. Raph is cool. Annoying, but cool. "I'd tell you, but then you'd never discover it for yourself.") And I think there's a line forming around the corner for people who want to give him a Mega-Wedgie. Somehow, he ended up looking very... 80's, for some reason. He looks like a groupy for the FIXX. I don't know why, it just happened. Oh, and Raph's Word? Enlightenment, as far as anyone can tell. At least that's what he tells people. Then again, he might be lying. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:47:54 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Story Posting > >Knowing that people have quotas, and huge messages turning up are usually > >pretty rude, I'm wondering if it's okay or if it's a hanging offense. > > What about a "teaser" of a page or two, and then a URL? > Okay, I'm going to do this thing. Since the HTML-ized version is all nicely formatted and stuff, as well. YES! COME TO MY PAGES! READ MY STUFF! - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:07:32 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: IN> Story Teaser - THE LETTER TO GOD [This is just a teaser. See the URL at the bottom of the message.] Disclaimer: This is just a really bizarre story. If you are offended by some rather strange takes on some religious ideals, this is not a story for you. Contains language, vulgarity, some violence, and a very dead cat. THE LETTER TO GOD - A Philosophical Musing by Emily Dresner What Jack Keros did not know was that in a few short years he would be insane. Not that he wasn't already partially mad to begin with, he certainly was. Keros was, all things considered, no more out of his skull then any of the other working boys, alth ough that was saying quite a bit. Keros was always entertaining at parties, his particular neurosis giving way to many amusing anecdotes and a few entertaining urban legends, many of which may or may not be true. No, this was to be the more colorful psychosis in all its shades, where the only aspirations in life begin to revolve around Thorazine pills in little Dixie cups and JELL-O three times a day eaten with a spork under the strictest supervision of white coated psych techs with bored looks on their faces. It was not something he could have easily accepted. He would have denied it vehemently, pointing to his obvious firm grasp of his own mind, and citing perfectly reasonable examples. Then again, Keros never was on very good footing with reality, when it really came down to it. It and him had never really seen eye to eye. And that was why he was chosen. "I have a simple task for you to carry out," the Prince said casually, picking the bits of fish left over from dinner out of his teeth with a toothpick. Keros trembled on his knees on the floor, giving a careful eye to the intricate pattern of the well trodden carpeting. It struck him that close up, the flowered design dissolved into an abstract pattern of mismatched colors and little bits of grit. "Yes, Lord. How may I serve you?" His eyes flickered upward away from the floor as a small envelope was dropped in front of his nose. "Nothing you can't take care of," the Prince said above him, his voice rife with boredom. "It's just a little courier work." Keros reached out a tentative hand, and touched the envelope. It was cool, and white, and completely unremarkable in every way imaginable. He didn't really believe any task was simple. Sometimes he was wrong, and sometimes he was right. This time, Jack Keros happened to be right. He would have fled screaming had he known. Instead, he simply accepted is fate, and mumbled, "Yes, my Lord." He slid the envelope toward his knees, which were slowly being inundated by some sort of weird mushy liquid that had soaked into the mangy carpet. "May I ask who I am to deliver this to?" Keros imagined having to navigate the realms of the various other Princes, and winced. It was not a trip he was looking forward to. He considered himself peril sensitive. "I need it delivered to God pronto," the Prince said, crossing his arms. Keros blinked. "God, sir?" "That's right. The Almighty himself. Jehovah. The Lord. The One and Only, the Creator of the Universe. The Big Kahuna in the sky." The Prince nudged his servitor a little with the toe of his shoe. "I need it delivered right away. You see, I have some complaints about the decor, and the service I've been getting lately is terrible. And the food? Don't even get me started! I'm rather disappointed in His Universe, He's letting it get all run down and shabby. I mean, what is this? Wars? Geraldo being considered a legitimate journalist? Bell bottoms back in fashion? Creation is going to Hell, I tell you. So to speak." Keros cowered. When it seemed safe, he took the sealed envelope, and slid it into his pocket. He didn't look up from his submissive position. "Uh... yes, My Lord." He had some lingering doubts about his Lord and Master's sanity. He could hear the Prince's footsteps as he moved away, the squish squish squish noise of good Italian shoes on the moist well soaked carpeting. "Keros?" "Yes, my Lord?" "I don't expect you to see you again until that letter is a bad joke. I need to be heard. It's a moral imperative." The Prince chuckled. "You wouldn't want to disappoint your Prince. It would be rather fatal if you disappointed your Prince." Keros flapped his leathery wings in agitation and cursed himself. That was, after all, his entire plan in a nutshell. "Damn," he thought. The entire story, THE LETTER TO GOD, is located at: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~zenith/in-nomine/lettertogod.htm (gratuitous shameless plug) The Holy War web site is located at: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~zenith/in-nomine/main.html (Frames) http://www-personal.umich.edu/~zenith/in-nomine/main2.html (No Frames) Game Logs! PC Diaries! Stories! All kinds of weird crap! And I put stuff up randomly all the time! - - Em, Balseraph of da Game, Demon of Playing IN Backwards Works for Nitpicking on Tuesdays. Is it Tuesday yet? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:13:01 -0500 From: Twila Oxley Price Subject: IN> Question about Grey Lilim and Malakim Erm. Okay. After a looong time musing over what I wanted to do in my campaign, I decided to have as NPCs a grey lilim and a malakite who are, erm, involved. Now, my question is: is it possible? And if the lilim placed a geasa on the malakite, how would that fly with his superior? (I am thinking Eli, for obvious reasons.) Are there written down any rules about how a grey lilim acts? This particular lilim tends to manifest as male and to have the discord of need:blood (yes, he is a vampire, kinda sorta, only ... well, that's a long story and it's why he became grey. I'd have picked bright, but the need discord has to be there for the story purposes.) Twila (who -- if she can get these annoying little queries answered -- may have a slightly skewed almost-Good-Omens-ish but-not-quite campaign on her hands.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:00:30 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Question about Grey Lilim and Malakim On Tue, Feb 24, 1998 at 03:13:01PM -0500, Twila Oxley Price wrote: > > Erm. Okay. After a looong time musing over what I wanted to do in my > campaign, I decided to have as NPCs a grey lilim and a malakite who > are, erm, involved. Now, my question is: is it possible? I reckon that so long as the Lilite in question is attempting to find some way to get rid of that Need, and is generally a nice person, that it's possible. The Malakite should probably be pressuring her into finding an Archangel and redeeming, of course. A nice moral dilemma for the Malakite, since it can be reasonably assumed that it's harder to persuade an Archangel to redeem you if you have such a Discord (canon says they'll remove Celestial Discord, but a) you can ignore that or b) you can say it makes them more reluctant to accept those with such Discord). Can I ask where the Discord came from? I'm unhappy with random Discords, myself. Methinks they should be linked in some way to the Dissonance that caused them, or to other traumatic situations. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "as for their relations with others, that is a long story, but it can be expressed shortly and clearly by saying that of all people we know the Spartans are most conspicuous for believing that what they like doing is honourable and what suits their interests is just." ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #643 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.