From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Apr 3 12:42:37 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16231 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:42:37 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id MAA11585 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:07:43 -0600 Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:07:43 -0600 Message-Id: <199804031807.MAA11585@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #706 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, April 3 1998 Volume 01 : Number 706 In this digest: Re: IN> Spicing up the Game Re: IN> History Re: IN> History (was Source Book Reviews) Re: IN> History Re: IN> History Re: IN> History IN> Re: Fall, dinosaurs, and Eden. Re: IN> Creativity Re: IN> History Re: IN> History (was Source Book Reviews) Re: Re: IN> History Re: IN> Creativity IN> Stupid, Stupid, Stupid. IN> Mountie - the Ultimate Role? IN> Lilith = Freedom????? Re: IN> History IN> The Gumshoe Angel Re: IN> Spicing up the Game IN> remove us from lthe lists Re: IN> Stupid, Stupid, Stupid. Re: IN> Lilith = Freedom????? Re: IN> Lilith = Freedom????? Re: IN> Mountie - the Ultimate Role? Re: IN> History Re: IN> History - Segue ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 18:05:45 -0500 (EST) From: Sheep Boy Subject: Re: IN> Spicing up the Game On the topic of music and such, I am a big fan of using music, props, visual aids, and whatever else might bring a little more vividness to the gaming table. More specific to In Nomine, there's plenty of music out there in the hard/industrial rock and techno areas, especially for bad guy themes, or action sequences. Yeah, I know, a lot of you probably don't want to turn your games into Mortal Kombat: The Movie, but I still think it adds a little something to the game to have soundtracks and such. I think one great resource if you're looking for bad guy music or if you are running an Infernal (or just a dark) campaign is the band KMFDM. A few choice titles are "Go To Hell," "Godlike," "Disobedience," and "Flesh." - Stavro ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 17:47:53 -0500 (EST) From: "York H. Dobyns" Subject: Re: IN> History Emily Dresner writes: >It is true, these 5 civilizations did spring up completely independant of >one another, and there is no archeological evidence that supports that >they were all "Linked", "Created by Aliens" or anything else. (Don't get >me started on Pyramids. :) ) On the other hand, the recent discovery of traces of cocaine and nicotine in Egyptian mummies suggests that these various cultures were not as utterly isolated as has usually been assumed. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 00:26:15 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> History (was Source Book Reviews) Armand writes >>I don't neccessarily want to have to invent the history for my game >>from scratch though. Does that make me a poor GM? No imagination? I >>don't think so. It sort of stems from having a full time job, other >>hobbies, and other commitments, so lack of time is a problem I guess. I >>often have little chance to put scenarios together let alone write >>detailed, consistent campaign backgrounds concerning religious history >>(Especially when such a subject is not something that I am particulary >>well read on. Implying research, implying *more* time). >>For those that wish to do so, fair play to them, but I think that a >>backdrop that explains itself a little more should already be there so >>that, as ever, you can choose to use it, ignore it, or tweak it. >>As a passing observation concerning creativity; If I was that creative >>(if any of us were :)) we wouldn't be playing IN anyway. >>We'd have written our *own* game systems! >> >>Jules - Demon with vestigial wings. > >I don't know if you caught my follow up to the post that spawned this, but >I wrote out a skeletal history of the Laurence/Saminga hate relationship in >less than an hour. I wrote this using my base knowledge of the two >Superiors and the main IN book. I know that I have a decent imagination, >and I have come to the opinion that others on this list far surpass me. >That's why I tend to lurk in the back and watch. > I've just read it, and with all due respect I can, and have, produced similar material myself within the same sort of timeframes. But the politicing of superiors is not what I'm concerned about. >The write up I did took a mere twenty minutes of research and time. I tend >to be of the opinion that it would take me nearly as long to read about it >and adapt it to my campaign. Maybe longer. > >Granted, extended in-depth histories are hell to create, but how in depth >do you need? All that I'm looking for is some form of ancient biblical timeline that expands upon existing canon. I know that one or two others on this list feel in a similar way. I also think that a certain Abrahamic religion has been skirted around and I don't see why. I also appreciate that IN is a game generally about here and now. My campaign is set 'here and now'. If I wanted to set up my game in the Dark Ages; Wild West; Imperial Japan, then I'd go away and invent something for those settings just as I have my modern day game. But the relationship of biblical events is surely integral to any game, because it catalogues our first experiences with the Divine. If we're going to get canon on Adam and Eve's creation and fall for example, then why not a little more along the same lines? Cain; Enoch: Noah and the Flood; Moses, to name a few? To me, this information is just as valuable as knowing about the mechanics of the Marches. I *could* invent all of this, in the same way that I *could* have invented my own version of events within the history outlined in the APG. But I happen to like that and I'd just like to see more of the same. - -- Jules - Demon of Getting Others To Do His Homework };) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 00:23:44 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> History Simon Hailes writes >However you are right, if a game is based upon religious ideals it should >live up to them, but In Nomine doesn't, in In Nomine religion was a tool >created by the angels (and influenced by demons) to shape humanity, not >something that binds Celstials or the Symphony. > Actually, that's incorrect. According to canon religion was *not* created by the angels. It was an invention of Man. APG Pg 7; "Then mankind created religion, and no angel could deny for any longer that mankind offered something special after all." Some AAs were involved with monotheic religions; Eli with Zoroastrianism, Yves; Gabriel; and Raphael with Christianity, and Yves and Gabriel with Islam. Guess What? No clues as to Judaism... :( - -- Jules - Worshipping Princess Beth from Afar *dreamy sigh* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 23:36:34 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> History Earl wrote: >David Edelstein points out that the original game by CROC >was far more satirical and heretical than IN, and Julian Breen >writes: > >> On the subject of 'touchiness' people would do well to remember the >> disclaimer on the back of the main rule book; >> >> "This book is intended for mature readers. It contains interpretations >> of religious themes which some readers may find unsettling." >> >> As much as I (generally) respect peoples views (on any subject; not >> just religion) I fail to see why folk should get so hot under the >> collar about assumptions made within this game. It's just that. A >> game. If it offends your religious sensibilities, stop playing. > >I am not sure that Julian's remarks are in direct response to my >remarks that the game is deeply heretical, either through indifference >or inattention, but if they are: > >I am not, in fact, "hot under the collar." Nor do I think there is >anything sinful about playing IN. I have two motives for my remark, >and both are related to the quality of the game as a game. > No, no, no Earl! My comments were in no way directed at you. My observation was in response to David Edelstein's remark that he too would like to see some more "serious" theology and history explored in In Nomine, but finds it unlikely due to people finding the matter 'touchy'. I just don't see why people who play this kind of game should get touchy! Surely, if there is a likelihood that something in canon may offend your religious beliefs, then you'd be better off playing a game with different subject matter? If somebody is a fervent believer in the Almighty that's great, but I wouldn't want that to interfere with what I get to read, and the subsequent denial of certain game resources. - -- Julian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 19:11:22 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> History > >It is true, these 5 civilizations did spring up completely independant of > >one another, and there is no archeological evidence that supports that > >they were all "Linked", "Created by Aliens" or anything else. (Don't get > >me started on Pyramids. :) ) > > On the other hand, the recent discovery of traces of cocaine and > nicotine in Egyptian mummies suggests that these various cultures were > not as utterly isolated as has usually been assumed. > Cocaine and chewing tobacco in Ramesses II, that old dead bastard. If you read the papers that have been published in the Archeology journals, you'll discover that they most likely traded with the more northern civilizations, who had contact all the way to the Indus Valley, who had no trouble growing such articles. Remember the political climate of the 21st Dynasty, where Egypt was certainly one of the most powerful nations in the world, but mostly through political dominance and not war dominiance. The time of Thothmosis III had passed long before to establist the original bounds of the Empire, but Ramesses was better at Political machinations then war. (Battle of Kadesh, which he lost badly, was his last real staged war effort.) Egypt was a heavy trading partner, and they got their hands on all sorts of non-native articles, like Cedar and Chestnut and strange foods and other delicacies. It was through making commodidies and keeping garrisons in conquored territories they held their dominance. Read Sinuhe. You'll understand. Do not underestimate the power of camel caravans and the trading prowress of the Ancient World, and mistake it for "Oooh, Egyptians influenced the Incas!" Because they didn't. - - Em. Back to our regularly scheduled list. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Apr 1998 16:30:13 PST From: "Chris Crowe" Subject: IN> Re: Fall, dinosaurs, and Eden. >>>In the history I worked out for my game (which predates the APG), Lucifer's Fall was the asteroid that hit the Earth and caused the extinction of the dinosaurs. Not only does it provide for wonderful metaphor, it elegantly illustrates how God uses Lucifer to further His plans. The dinosaurs -had- to die, you see, so that mammals could become dominant and eventually evolve into humanity. It was their Destiny. (Of course, Eden wasn't really a place; it was more like a state of being. Before the Apple, humanity was pure and innocent; it was in Eden. Of course, now that it's been mythologized into a garden paradise, Eden now exists in the Marches. It's still closed off, guarded by a cherub with a flaming sword, probably a ranking Servitor of Purity.)<<< nice image to think about. Lucifer rebels, gets kicked out, rams head first into earth, unwittingly kills dinosaurs, stumbles in a daze into hell, likes it and stays. i believe that is something that i could believe in. consider it pasted into my campaign. Krowe, Malakim of Destiny, Angel of Redemption. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 01:24:52 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> Creativity Alex Yeager writes: >From: Julian Breen >> I don't necessarily want to have to invent the history >> for my game from scratch though. Does that make me >> a poor GM? No imagination? I don't think so. >Nor do I. I believe the point that has been driven home many times >on this list is "different strokes for different folks". My only >observation is that the more detailed a world-view or history gets, >the more difficult it gets to keep track of over time, both from >a game and a personal perspective. Detail is necessary; I, like >many others, prefer to generate that detail personally, if for no >other reason than it's easier to be consistent to one's own little >universe if you whirled it together with your own recipe. I don't wish to bog down IN with a detailed world history. I just would like to see more information on certain topics (The subjects of which I think that most of this list fully appreciates by now.). > Besides, >if IN gets too detailed, Beth might have to expand her Tuesday >duties into Wednesdays - do YOU want to be held responsible? > Ah. Erm *tremble* I'd better hope for a 111 on that Djinn resonance... >> As a passing observation concerning creativity; If I was that >> creative (if any of us were :)) we wouldn't be playing IN anyway. >> We'd have written our *own* game systems! >...but THIS is why I unlurked. The precise reason I have been so >enthusiastic about IN is because it MAKES me that creative! I have >had the opportunity to play and examine literally hundreds of games >over the years; of those, I have a very small subset which makes my >neurons fire off like AK-47s on speed (TFOS, Paranoia, Toon, IN and >my own special flavor of AD&D. Don't ask.) It's because my >mind, for whatever reason, wraps around the underlying concepts of >these games and ENCOURAGES my creativity, that makes me appreciate >what these games inspire in me. > >Create my own game? Been there, done that - I've been running a >fully functional version of Kung-Fu CB Mamas on Wheels... since 1992. >(This reference serves three purposes - my undying love for SJG, >my inside reference for other lifers, and a tweak to anyone else >who might have looked at that character sheet and said, "No WAY that >can be a real game...") I don't consider the creation of a game >the ultimate expression of creativity - although I greatly admire the >time and effort put into the creation of IN or any other game. I >would observe that this list is rife with honest-to-gosh creativity >daily - even to the creative acquisition of research sources and >influences. > >Personally, I am incredibly busy, both with my job and with my MIB >efforts (and Friends of Lulu in my own private way, and my wife's >camp directorship, etc.) - so my response is to generate between >four and six con scenarios a year. It's what I can handle right >now, and I'm comfortable that my limited output at the moment is >offset by the fact that I'm very good - some might even say >entertaining - in their execution. I have admiration for the >creative talents of those who have ongoing campaigns - I've had them >in the past as well, and creativity is absolutely mandatory for >the successful execution thereof. None of us "created" IN - but many >of the seeds, campaign notes, and writeups posted here are as >creatively inspired as any other canon source you can point to. > >I'm sure you didn't mean it as bluntly as it sounded, You are correct. Perhaps I should go and sharpen my head? X-(:-) (My apologies to any upon this list who feel slighted by my ill-worded comments) - -- Julian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 00:58:02 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> History > It's always >possible that God tampered with their memories, and *lied* to his >angels.... > > >- ---Walter > Bad God. No Donut. - -- Jules ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 01:29:12 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> History (was Source Book Reviews) Jon F. Zeigler wrote: >All I'm suggesting is that SJG address some of the big gaps that bother some >people about IN canon. I think that can be done in an entertaining way, which >provides historically-minded GMs with inspiration without putting them in a >straitjacket. The result would be useful to some of us. It would be too much >to hope that it would be useful to everyone -- no gaming supplement is. > Thank you. You've said exactly what I wanted to say in a far better way than I have done so myself. - -- Julian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 21:33:37 EST From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: Re: IN> History In a message dated 4/2/98 4:20:04 PM, you wrote: >Cocaine and chewing tobacco in Ramesses II, that old dead bastard. If you >read the papers that have been published in the Archeology journals, >you'll discover that they most likely traded with the more northern >civilizations, who had contact all the way to the Indus Valley, who had >no trouble growing such articles. As far as I know, tobacco and coca are both native to the New World. Which means that trade had to have been crossing either the Atlantic or the Pacific. Mark(My bet is on the Atlantic: Go Celtia!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 23:15:45 -0500 From: "Thomas Davidson" Subject: Re: IN> Creativity > From: Julian Breen > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Subject: Re: IN> Creativity > Date: Thursday, April 02, 1998 7:24 PM > > Alex Yeager writes: > > >From: Julian Breen > >> As a passing observation concerning creativity; If I was that > >> creative (if any of us were :)) we wouldn't be playing IN anyway. > >> We'd have written our *own* game systems! > >...but THIS is why I unlurked. The precise reason I have been so > >enthusiastic about IN is because it MAKES me that creative! I have > >had the opportunity to play and examine literally hundreds of games > >over the years; of those, I have a very small subset which makes my > >neurons fire off like AK-47s on speed (TFOS, Paranoia, Toon, IN and > >my own special flavor of AD&D. Don't ask.) It's because my > >mind, for whatever reason, wraps around the underlying concepts of > >these games and ENCOURAGES my creativity, that makes me appreciate > >what these games inspire in me. > >[sniperooni, the San Francisco Treat!] > >None of us "created" IN - but many > >of the seeds, campaign notes, and writeups posted here are as > >creatively inspired as any other canon source you can point to. > > > >I'm sure you didn't mean it as bluntly as it sounded, > > You are correct. Perhaps I should go and sharpen my head? > > X-(:-) > > (My apologies to any upon this list who feel slighted by my ill-worded > comments) > That's all right.... with this list lately, and having spent time (some say "hard" time) on the Hero System/Champions List, I must say that I'm used to it by now. ;) > > > -- > Julian Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us http://wwp.mirabilis.com/7789233/ UIN: 7789233 http://www.accessdenied.net/cgi-bin/main.cgi?userid=326&newuser=profile MUSIC: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Rush, Jimi Hendrix GAMES: Champions (old and new), In Nomine, Nephilim TV: The X-Files, the Simpsons, Superman, The Tick, the Animaniacs OTHER: Religion, Philosophy, mysticism, the runes, the Tarot, writing. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:11:38 +0100 From: "Ad." Subject: IN> Stupid, Stupid, Stupid. I lent one of my players Libre Requilarium to read before I had finished reading it myself, and he pointed something horrible out to me. There is a reference to one of the published scenarios in the text! Basically, this reference will make it very difficult for this particular player to play in the scenario in question. I am wondering are SJG trying to set things up so that all books must be kept out of the hands of players? Nothing should refer to the critical plot devices of a scenario outside the scenario. Or, if it does it should do so in such a way that only one who has read the scenario will make the connection. (In other words omit the text in brackets.) Not wishing to make the the same mistake and ruin the game for yet more players the reference I am making is on either 102 or 120 (can't remember of LR) - if you think your GM is planning to play one of the scenarios from the Revelations Cycle with you, avoid this section of the book, Adam, an annoyed Impudite of Gluttony. - -- "The seas boiled and the living envied the dead. All was shattered and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon." - - from: The Breaking of the World, Author Unknown, Fourth Age. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 22:56:50 From: Peter Frederick Subject: IN> Mountie - the Ultimate Role? Dear List Has anyone else seen a TV series called Due South. Is Benton Fraiser a Celestial or what? Come on the guy dresses funny _all_ the time, fits into no social situations, has a wide range of bizarre but somehow always very useful skills, has super human sensory acuity and has an omnisient omnipresent patron/supervisor figure that no one else can see. The last episode that aired here he had a very Elohim thing going. When some one would explain why they couldn't be involved in something that he was about to do he just looked at them, said "I understand." then went off and did it anyway. The lack of judgement or guilt tripping sent some of the other characters for a bit of a spin. Is some sort of weird foreigner the ultimate device to explain Celestial shenanigans. If you're far from home and no one has anything to compare you with maybe all the stories the locals have heard are true. Of course all Australians can throw boomerangs, if they live in the North they can all wrestle Crocodiles too. And every Texan can shoot the tail feathers off a crow at a thousand yards and hog tie a wild steer with one arm tied behind their back. Just a random thought. Thanking you for your indulgence. Regards, Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au May the Goddess shelter you in the palm of her hand until we meet again. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 22:57:48 From: Peter Frederick Subject: IN> Lilith = Freedom????? Dear List Is it just me or is anyone else struck by the irony of the Wordbound of Freedom supporting herself by creating creatures born in slavery and who exist to snare others in obligations? No wonder Freedom is so elusive as a virture. Another random thought, thanking you for your indulgence. Regards, Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au May the Goddess shelter you in the palm of her hand until we meet again. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 22:52:19 From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> History >Em reminisced >But, *snap fingers*, this reminds me of something I was talking about >yesterday after Vampire to two of my Malkavians-in-crime. There is a >class I took in 1994 called "CULT ARCHEOLOGY", taught by Dr. Dick "Crop >Circle" Ford. Dr. Kharmelkov had told me to take it (my Egyptology >professor) and told me it was 'hilarious'. It turned out to be an easy A, >but it wasn't about digging up cults and analyzing them, it was about this >exact thing, rogue archeology that is more new agey pop culture then >science. So we covered such illustrious subjects as Bigfoot, the lost >continent of Atlantis (and Mu and Lemuria), crop circles, aliens being >behind the Nazca lines, and yes, this topic - Concurrent Cultural >Evolution. > >It is true, these 5 civilizations did spring up completely independant of >one another, and there is no archeological evidence that supports that >they were all "Linked", "Created by Aliens" or anything else. (Don't get >me started on Pyramids. :) ) Slightly more off topic, perhaps. I read an article in New Dawn magazine, which subtitles itself "A Journal of Radical Non-Conformity", which suggested that there was a link between the Ancient Egyptian and South Amreican Cultures. The article was titled "Curse of the Cocaine Mummies", I kid you not, and stated that analysis of 134 ancient Egyptian mummies had revealed traces of cocaine and nicotine. The authors suggested that this proved a trans-atlantic trade between the two cultures, as these substances occur naturally only in South America. I'm not sure what to make of these people, I keep buying their mag cause it gives me a chuckle and the occasional insipration for an adventure, how could you pass up the "Curse of the Cocaine Mummies" :) . Thanking you for your indulgence. Regards, Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au May the Goddess shelter you in the palm of her hand until we meet again. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 23:02:43 From: Peter Frederick Subject: IN> The Gumshoe Angel Dear List this idea came to me ages ago, i scribbled it down on a piece of paper and then lost it . Mucho work avoidance happening this week, so I put the idea back together, hope someone gets some use out of it. Regards, Peter. *** Marlowe, Elohim of Judgement, the Angel of Ratiocination "When you have eliminated all other possibilities, whatever remains must be the truth." Early in his career Marlowe was involved in a couple of Tribunals whose smooth running was tainted by poor relations between members of the Tribunal and those being investigated. Seeking another way to uncover the truth Marlowe began examining the sites involved in alleged wrongdoing and the items he found there. Dominic allowed him to continue with his unorthodox methods, despite complaints from Marlowe's Tribunal partners. Marlowe gained a reputation as an unreliable Judge, despite a perfect record from the Tribunals he served on, and he was placed under Torquemada, the Angel of the Inquisition, to teach him proper judicial process. Marlowe and Torquemada clashed over many cases. The Inquisitor Angel's approach grated on Marlowe, and the fact that Marlowe was right much more often than he was wrong infuriated Torquamada. Eventually their struggle came to a head over a Cherub who had Fallen, but not sided with Hell. The Djinn had been captured and was charged with a number of crimes against Angels and with aiding Hell. Torquemada, questioned the Demon until he had confirmed his Fall then pronounced him guilty. Marlowe refused to deliver a verdict without further investigation. Torquemada took the matter to Dominic, who on personally interrogating the Demon and the Angels who had captured him, declared that the demon was innocent of the crimes he had been accused of and that Torquemada had been wrong in seeking to close the case so quickly. Dominic asked Marlowe if he would like to work to advance his style of Judgement by taking the Word of Ratiocination and Marlowe agreed. The Djinn was so impressed with his treatment that he repented the crimes against Heaven that he had committed and was redeemed, becoming Marlowe's first Servitor. Marlowe remains an odd Servitor of Judgement. His distain for the Inquisitorial approach of Judgement has given him a sour reputation amongst his fellow Dominicans. However his insight and fair-mindedness makes him popular with even those who dislike Angels of Judgement. He rarely participates in Tribunals, but encourages his Servitors to lend their talents and perspective to them. Dissonance Marlowe requires all his Servitors to fulfil the objectives of Judgement, binding them to the same Dissonance strictures as Dominic. Additionally it is Dissonant for any Servitor of Ratiocination to ignore a crime or mystery that is causing distress to others if it is brought to their attention. Choir Attunements Seraphim. For Marlowe's Seraphim objects at a crime scene can provide as much evidence as a living witness. A Seraph of Ratiocination can with a Perception roll extract one yes or no answer from any object at a crime scene which was involved in the crime. Questions not related to the crime will produce a random answer. Cherub. Marlowe's Cherubim can exploit the link between a clue and a suspect to Attune themselves to the suspect as if they were touching them. The clue must be one that relates to that particular suspect. Elohim - Spookiest of the Servitors of Ratiocination, Marlowe's Elohim can draw on the atmosphere of a crime scene and with a successful Perception roll identify the most important clue. Higher CD's will tell them why it is the most important clue and how it relates to other clues. Ofanim - Ofanim of Ratiocination can use their Resonance to travel the fastest route towards the suspected perpetrator of a crime without needing to be aware of exactly where the suspect is. Malakim - Malakim of Ratiocination can sense information from weapons and the damage they have done. With a Perception roll they can match a weapon to any damage it has caused; match weapons to accessories like scabbards, holsters or ammunition; match a weapon to a user or determine the last time a weapon was used. Higher Check Digits will produce more information, with CD's of 5 or 6 providing identifying information about absent weapons or users. Kyriotates - Marlowe's Kryio's can inhabit a crime scene and watch over it. This requires a Will roll and occupies two of the Kryio's Forces. The Kryio remain in the crime scene for a number of days equal to the Check Digit of their Will roll, but may only observe. Mercurian - Marlowe's Mercurians can with a Perception roll detect whether an individual has a connection to the suspected perpetrators of a crime. With higher Check Digits they gain more information such as the nature of the relationship is, when the person last saw the suspect and where or how the crime has effected the relationship. Servitor Attunements Just The Facts - requires a subject to give short meaningful answers to questions put by the Angel. If an answer will directly incriminate the subject they may make a Will roll to break the effect of the Attunement. Using the Attunement Costs 2 Essence and last a number of questions equal to the Angels Celestial Forces. Rites-for one Essence bring a criminal to justice. for one Essence solve a mystery to the benefit of those afflicted by it. Summoning - Base chance 3. + 1 a copy of the complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes + 2 a wanted poster + 3 the scene of an unsolved crime + 4 a "hot" clue, eg smoking gun, warm body, anonymous tip off. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au May the Goddess shelter you in the palm of her hand until we meet again. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 09:23:26 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Spicing up the Game How do you use music in a game? Just play it in the background, or do you try to orchestrate a "soundtrack," matching music to mood and event (which sounds like a lot of work)? I have often used documents as props when I have GMed. It usually goes over well. And illustrations are helpful if you have odd critters. (I often GM science fiction and do sketches of aliens so the players know what they're meeting.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:36:01 -0500 From: "Monsignor Clancy High School" Subject: IN> remove us from lthe lists Please do not send us any more e-mail. Lab supervisor. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Apr 98 10:25 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Stupid, Stupid, Stupid. >I lent one of my players Libre Requilarium to read before I had finished >reading it myself, and he pointed something horrible out to me. There is >a reference to one of the published scenarios in the text! Basically, >this reference will make it very difficult for this particular player to >play in the scenario in question. If this is the reference I think it is, I don't see it as much of a plot spoiler. It does sort of reveal that an assumption mentioned elsewhere in canon isn't true, so I suppose that could be a spoiler. And it does spoil a minor mystery by revealing a character relationship to the adventure that a PC wouldn't necessarily have guessed easily. I'm not sure that's avoidable, entirely. Similar problems crop up in other books with regard to other adventures (the GM screen one comes to mind) - -- sometimes "secret" data that appears in adventures is also appropriate to core books. The adventure reference *could* have been left out, but it *is* a relevant cross-reference. On the whole, I think I'd rather the core books make sense than try to preserve every mystery in every published adventure. Frankly, I don't think players should be reading anything but the game mechanics and "common items" sections of the LR, since a *lot* of the LR unique items are potential plot seeds, anyway. Just knowing about them in many cases can be a spoiler if the GM was planning to introduce one of them. This is also true, if less so, for some of the "common" items. > Nothing should refer to the critical >plot devices of a scenario outside the scenario. Or, if it does it should >do so in such a way that only one who has read the scenario will make the >connection. (In other words omit the text in brackets.) I wouldn't call that a *critical* plot point. Yes, they could have omitted the reference. I'm not sure it's worth it, in general. That particular reference isn't probably critical to the LR, and might have been left out. But it's also useful for it to be there. On the whole, I'm slightly inclined to favor its inclusion. As I said, players probably shouldn't have been in that part of the book, anyway. >Not wishing to make the the same mistake and ruin the game for yet more >players the reference I am making is on either 102 or 120 (can't remember >of LR) It seems probable that it's p. 102. > - if you think your GM is planning to play one of the scenarios >from the Revelations Cycle with you, avoid this section of the book, I would recommend that players be kept out of *all* the sections in the LR that deal with unique items, actually. PCs *may* know of their existance, but they'll rarely know any details about such items. So players shouldn't be reading the game mechanics of them, or the bits of history that are intended as springboards for GM plot seeds. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Apr 98 10:28 EST From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Lilith = Freedom????? >Is it just me or is anyone else struck by the irony of the Wordbound of >Freedom supporting herself by creating creatures born in slavery and who >exist to snare others in obligations? I think this irony was rather the intent, here.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 11:04:04 -0500 From: "Mark McKenzie" Subject: Re: IN> Lilith = Freedom????? Walter Milliken wrote: > > >Is it just me or is anyone else struck by the irony of the Wordbound of > >Freedom supporting herself by creating creatures born in slavery and who > >exist to snare others in obligations? > > I think this irony was rather the intent, here.... > Extend it out to all diabolicals. They (in theory) rebel against Heaven's rule, only to enter the far more regimented and totalitarian setting of Hell. They demanded freedom, and end up far closed to "slaves" than they were to start with. - -- Mark McKenzie E-mail: markadv@kinekom.com ICQ 7946364 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 10:25:26 -0600 (CST) From: Bryan Subject: Re: IN> Mountie - the Ultimate Role? On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Peter Frederick wrote: > Has anyone else seen a TV series called Due South. Is Benton Fraiser a > Celestial or what? I've watched the show, and I LIKE your explanation. How else could he do all the things he does? Elohim for sure. MFW Bryan brbarnes@prairie.nodak.edu Death is a low chemical trick played on everbody except sequoia trees. J.J. Furnas ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:06:55 -0500 (EST) From: "York H. Dobyns" Subject: Re: IN> History Emily Dresner writes: [..I wrote:...] >> On the other hand, the recent discovery of traces of cocaine and >> nicotine in Egyptian mummies suggests that these various cultures were >> not as utterly isolated as has usually been assumed. > >Cocaine and chewing tobacco in Ramesses II, that old dead bastard. If you >read the papers that have been published in the Archeology journals, >you'll discover that they most likely traded with the more northern >civilizations, who had contact all the way to the Indus Valley, who had >no trouble growing such articles. Wait a minute, here. I don't deny that the Indus Valley has a fine climate for growing such articles, but the most recent info I had on the subject was that tobacco and coca are both New World plants. (I'm blind-copying this to my favorite anthropological resource for commentary.) As plants indigenous to the Americas they would not be available in either Egypt *or* India without at least one trans-Atlantic or trans-Pacific crossing, somewhere, sometime. [...] >Do not underestimate the power of camel caravans and the trading prowress >of the Ancient World, and mistake it for "Oooh, Egyptians influenced the >Incas!" Because they didn't. I'm certainly not aware of any firm evidence for Egyptian influence on the Incas, nor do I underestimate the reach of Egyptian land trade, but I just can't see how camel caravans brought back coca leaf, unless camels are awfully good swimmers. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 12:55:33 -0500 (EST) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> History - Segue > I'm certainly not aware of any firm evidence for Egyptian influence on > the Incas, nor do I underestimate the reach of Egyptian land trade, but > I just can't see how camel caravans brought back coca leaf, unless > camels are awfully good swimmers. > I went searching today through the Egyptology Periodicals for the last 5 years this morning (amazing what you can get into when you work for a major university) and I didn't find one firm paper on this, although plenty on the research on Mummys from the New Kingdon. Not one, and if I remember correctly, it was a rumor. Nor can I find any stories in the CNN archives. As I can find plenty on dietary supplements on the New Kingdom and the like, the burdon of proof does not rest on me. But I'll cough up some facts on "how Egyptians did not get to Mexico": 1. Trade with Mexican Tribes. The Ramessids started in 1300BC, which is 1300 years before the first Mexican concentrated civilization, which included harvesting plant life en masse, the Olemecs. Even then, serious agriculture didn't begin for a few hundred more years. 2. Serious overwater trading did not really begin until there was someone to trade with, which was late Ramessid - Late Kingdom period. While the barks were designed to deal with the Nile, they didn't become Mediterreanan traders until later. 3. Even if a boat was built to survive the trans-atlantic voyage (as someone a few years ago decided to 'prove'), and make its way out of the Mediterreanean, and make it all the way across the Atlantic with no astrolabe, no astronomical equipment built to navigate the ocean (like the Vikings 2000 years later), it is difficult the boat would return and make it back to Egypt with good in tact without preservation techniques. Even if it was dried, it's difficult to believe the cargo would survive the journey, let alone the people. 4. There is documented evidence (plentiful at that) of certain genii of plantlife having existed in the Ancient World and died out due to overcultivation, lack of modern agricultural techniques, and concentrations of population. The most common example of this is the popular Lotus Flower that the Egyptians used in almost all of their writing and architecture. While it existed in PreDynastic times, it no longer existed by the time of the late Middle Kingdom. 5. There is no archeological evidence to date of any trans-Atlantic crossings, not in any writing, nor in any artifacts. Even when the Vikings landed in Northern Canada, they were kind enough to leave behind most of a settlement. For a group of people who were truly anal retentive about writing down everthing that happened to their civilization, it is difficult to believe this would have occured and _no trace_ was left, ever. No artifacts, no legends, no histories, no 'names sung on tongues', no paintings, no pictures, no note of a trade route. 6. If a trace element of tobacco or cocaine lived in a dead dissicated body for 3000 years, the person would need to have taken in more then simply 'trace amounts' or have a one shot novelty try. This is true with just about any human being - basic pharmacology. The person would have needed to have access to a ready supply to allow it to build up in their tissues. If the plants came into Egypt there are two paths it could take. The first, and probably the easiest, is that it came in from deeper in Africa, and it died out due to oversupply and overcultivation - extremely likely, as not every plant TO DATE has been catelogued in Africa, and it's well known there were some climatary and agricultural changes. There is more then documented trade routes through Kush in Ethopia, which traded deeper into the Continent. The other way, probably less likely, is through Syria. As I've said before, don't read everything you see in New Age magazines. It simply didn't happen, and it will be believed to have not happened until someone digs up an Egyptian Barque in the Yucatan. As it stands right now, this is not hard enough evidence to say, "Well, they influenced the Mayans." - - Em. I'm taking off the Egyptologist hat now. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #706 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.