From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Apr 28 19:04:25 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA17827 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:04:25 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id SAA17516 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 18:58:15 -0500 Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 18:58:15 -0500 Message-Id: <199804282358.SAA17516@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #733 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, April 28 1998 Volume 01 : Number 733 In this digest: Re: IN> 3 questions IN> Angels & Gun Control Re: IN> Re: Princess of Nitpicking Re: IN> 3 questions Re: IN> Angels & Gun Control Re: IN> Double Agents Re: IN> Double Agents Re: IN> Double Agents Re: IN> Princess of Nitpicking Re: IN> 3 questions Re: IN> Princess of Nitpicking Re: IN> 3 questions IN> Make-Up Department Re: IN> Re: Princess of Nitpicking Re: IN> Double Agents Re: IN> Double Agents IN> Habbalah Re: IN> Re: Princess of Nitpicking (was Re: GRAMMAR (Re: Fuzzy? (was Re: Character taxonomy))) Re: IN> The Hell/Heaven (im?)balance Re: IN> The Demon of Gun Control Re: IN> Angels & Gun Control Re: IN> The Hell/Heaven (im?)balance Re: IN> Angels & Gun Control IN> Violent content Re: IN> The Demon of Gun Control Re: IN> Double Agents Re: IN> Double Agents Re: IN> Violent content Re: IN> Make-Up Department Re: IN> Make-Up Department IN> Dominic Re: IN> Dominic Re: IN> Dominic Re: IN> Violent content IN> Is anyone on this list in Austin? Re: IN> Dominic Re: IN> Dominic Re: IN> The Demon of Gun Control IN> Technical difficulties. IN> Re: Lucifer and Tabloids (was Re: 3 questions Re: IN> Re: Princess of Nitpicking ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 04:47:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> 3 questions On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Pee Kitty wrote: > truly become a full online sourcebook. I've got everything on INC loaded > into my word processor in a decent format, just waiting for the gaps to be > filled in so I can print it out and actually run a DV campaign...I think > it'd be a lot of fun. Of course, not everything DV is on the INC. How do I know this? Because, waaaaaay back before Christmas, I sent Beth a slew of stuff to add. I also sent it to Nathaniel to HTML for her, and he sent it in. It -still- hasn't been added. Of course, now that she's Fallen and become DP of Line Editing, I don't think it will ever be added. - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives, looking for another Superior to serve (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:44:10 +0100 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: IN> Angels & Gun Control >To Kiriel's dismay, however, the response was not a careful bill >that would prevent a similar tragedy from being repeated without >infringing >on the 2nd Amendment; instead, the politicians reacted with hysteria, >and >simply banned every model of firearm that happened to resemble the >weapon >used to commit the crime in question. It was a silly law that >accomplished >nothing and was ultimately struck down by the Supreme Court. Sounds like the anti-gun laws which were passed here last year, and pretty much welcomed by just about everyone. >Humanity could only learn from >bloodshed; mere reason was insufficient, because the selfish gun nuts >and >the hysterical gun control advocates alike were all just so much >irrational >cattle, reacting in kneejerk Pavlovian fashion to every media event. Alternatively he could have just moved to Europe or Australia.... You know, I thought the single scariest line in the IPG was the comment that Impudites don't take police roles because they might have to kill too many people. I'm not making a political comment on this, just pointing out that culture differences exist. Seriously though, do you think angels care about the 2nd amendment, other than angels who are specifically assigned to the US? jo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 05:17:46 -0400 From: Brandon Quina Subject: Re: IN> Re: Princess of Nitpicking > I dunno... sure looks to me like y'all are brown-nosing :) > > -Rob, Djinn Servitor of Gluttony in service to Lightning You *just* figured that out? Its been rather obvious. What id like to know is... What does *BETH* feel about furfur's bid for princedom, and what advice would *SHE* give her servitors if they asked in said situation. I mean, all the other servitors got to ask their superiors. ::sob:: Brandon, Dissonant Habbalah of Nitpicking - -- (lore@tmgbbs.com) \|/// Zzzzzzzzzzzz Brandon Lance Quina (- -) ICQ Number: 6809944 ---ooO(_)Ooo--- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:34:42 +0100 From: Jens Alm Subject: Re: IN> 3 questions >3) Malakim are, to be blunt about it, just plain COOL. >They are the archetypical butt-kickers and name-takers. >They are the vengence of God made manifest and they are >more than willing to discuss the finer points of heavenly >retribution upon the beings of those who deserve it. >They chew up nails and spit out hand grenades (or, at >least, the Malakim of Eli do this...). They take on >five demons before breakfast and can go through a >dozen vessels in a day, if need be. =) Am I the only one whose players refuse to play Malakim, going so far as to more or less forbid anyone to play them. Their reasoning is that you can't have a self-righteous demonslayer in a team. He's simply not a team player. Sometimes a mission requires more stealth than muscle, more diplomacy than guns, in which case a Malakim could be damn irritating (no pun intended). The Ofanim of War is enough problem, having to be Celestially Moved by another player out of every fight where the players seem predestined to loose, and he finds his way back so easily :), lucky him he's still alive. Well, at least he doesn't have to start a fight, he just has to pursue it. /Jens - -- Jens Alm med97jal@student2.lu.se http://www.efd.lth.se/~d95jal ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:11:54 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> Angels & Gun Control On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Hart, Joanna wrote: > Alternatively he could have just moved to Europe or Australia.... You know, > I thought the single scariest line in the IPG was the comment that Impudites > don't take police roles because they might have to kill too many people. > I'm not making a political comment on this, just pointing out that culture > differences exist. That jarred me too. Here in Sweden, it's national news if the police kill someone. No kidding. Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! "I kick arse for the Lord!" - Father McGruder ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:14:19 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> Double Agents You'd have one Hell of a problem getting around the Malakim, though. Even if you don't lie to the Seraphim, the Malakim can just look at you and see that you have betrayed Heaven - and if this sort of thing was going on, you can bet there would be a lot of Malakim looking at people. :) Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! "I kick arse for the Lord!" - Father McGruder ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:17:09 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> Double Agents On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Armand wrote: > Then again, we have all those strings of whether Janus and Valefor are the > same person. I had a flash on this a couple of days ago - what if Janus/Valefor is the same entity... and that entity is neither AA nor DP, but something different? One of the Pagan Gods, perhaps? I'd go for Loki if he wasn't associated with fire rather than wind... Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! "I kick arse for the Lord!" - Father McGruder ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:20:47 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> Double Agents On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Pee Kitty wrote: > Fallen double agents? No...the shattering of the heart will bely ANY > attempt to disguise a fall. Non-fallen double agents? Sure! Hard as hell > to pull off, but sure...as long as your Superior isn't a Seraph.... Just thinking loud here... What if there were some malcontents on both sides, who had a common agenda? They don't work for final victory for Heaven -or- Hell, but for something completely different... Not sure what that would be, though. Maybe just to keep the War going? This might even involve some of the Superiors - Malphas springs to mind, as well as Novalis (better a long, cold war than a final battle), Janus/Valefor (uncomfortable to fight on both sides at once - if they are the same person) and Kobal (cool joke on Lucifer -and- God). Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! "I kick arse for the Lord!" - Father McGruder ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:23:47 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> Princess of Nitpicking On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Dataweaver wrote: > Speaking of Habbalah, I confess that I still have a very poor grasp on > them; why would an angel willingly serve demon princes? It seems to me > that Habbalites would be loath to serve anyone other than Nybbas or the > handful of other Habbalite archangels... More to the point, how do they > justify working within the hierarchy of Hell at all? The end justifies the means, I guess. Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! "I kick arse for the Lord!" - Father McGruder ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:20:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> 3 questions > Of course, not everything DV is on the INC. How do I know this? Because, > waaaaaay back before Christmas, I sent Beth a slew of stuff to add. I > also sent it to Nathaniel to HTML for her, and he sent it in. > > It -still- hasn't been added. > > Of course, now that she's Fallen and become DP of Line Editing, I don't > think it will ever be added. Here is an entertaining trivia fact: If you send the stuff to zenith@pyramid.sjgames.com, it will go up in bits and pieces, probably around 5 pages/day, but it will go up on the INC. I know that Beth is overloaded. Hell, I know that _I_ am overloaded. But if I get documents, they go up for all to see, and I will complete the set. If they come to me HTML-ized, they go up about three times as fast. I also know that the number of documents to go up is in the hundreds. But I work like a Ravenous Bugblatter Beast. If I don't see it, it doesn't exist. I am WORKING on telepathy but I haven't gotten it down yet. Of course, if you send it to my primary account here, I'm sending Shedim after you. :) I will become one very cranky Balseraph. - - Em, Keeper of the INC. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:16:09 -0400 From: Andrew Frades Subject: Re: IN> Princess of Nitpicking Dataweaver wrote: > Mmm... except that Habbalah know exactly what they are: Habbalah - the > only true angels in existence. > > Speaking of Habbalah, I confess that I still have a very poor grasp on > them; why would an angel willingly serve demon princes? It seems to me > that Habbalites would be loath to serve anyone other than Nybbas or the > handful of other Habbalite archangels... More to the point, how do they > justify working within the hierarchy of Hell at all? > Given that this is just my opinion but I have been running a Habbalite of Fate NPC since the inception of my campaign so I'll give you a little peak into my thoughts. Habbalah do not so much think that they are Angels so much as believe that they are serving Heaven. Habbalah act as testers and punishers of those that would stray, thus forcing them to make a choice as to their path. Habbalah believe that they are the only true Angels, seving the word of God through hrsh punishment, weeding out the week and unworthy. Or to quote Cedron, Habbalite of Fate, vying for the Demonic Word of Skateboarding: "Man, you failed the test, made the wrong choice. Your eternal punishment awaits you." Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:27:58 -0400 From: Andrew Frades Subject: Re: IN> 3 questions Jens Alm wrote: > Am I the only one whose players refuse to play Malakim, going so far as to > more or less forbid anyone to play them. Their reasoning is that you can't > have a self-righteous demonslayer in a team. He's simply not a team player. > Sometimes a mission requires more stealth than muscle, more diplomacy than > guns, in which case a Malakim could be damn irritating (no pun intended). > The Ofanim of War is enough problem, having to be Celestially Moved by > another player out of every fight where the players seem predestined to > loose, and he finds his way back so easily :), lucky him he's still alive. > Well, at least he doesn't have to start a fight, he just has to pursue it. IMC this was solved by an ingenious player who read the dissonance conditions for David and immediately wrote up a Malakim. Gave him to me and has played him since. The two relevant pieces of information... "Never suffer an evil to live, while it is your choice." "...Angels of Stone will never start a fight, but they will always finish it." He took this to mean that it would be dissonant for him to start a fight, thus not quite his choice. I agreed and have not had any problems. He has met many demons and hasn't killed them all in a gory bloodfest yet partly because he won't start fights, and partly because they must prove themselves to be evil before he kills them. He is something of a new breed of Malakim I guess. None of this has stopped him once he knows a person is evil and has fought them before, to him the fight continues until it is over, not just until the corporeal vessel is destroyed. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:27:57 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Make-Up Department Here are some alternative, non-canonical celestial forms, which I present for whoever might like them. Why? It varies: For seraphim, it bothered me that our only Scriptural reference clearly describes them as having six wings, hands, and feet. For ophanim, it bothered me that they didn't look more like their description in Ezekiel, and that their fallen counterparts looked nothing like them. For kyriotates, it bothered me that their fallen counterparts looked *exactly* like them. - --- Seraphim -- Give the canonical seraph a total of six wings, a coat of feathers, and four short legs. The result looks a lot like a winged and six-eyed Chinese dragon (who are often shown using their forefeet as hands). Since the feathery coat can have any color pattern at all, the result might also suggest Quetzalcoatl, the rainbow-serpent god of Central America. (*Now*, at least, they have all the limbs attributed to them in Scripture.) Balseraphim -- the wings become bat-like and the feathers become scales. - --- Ophanim -- Each ophanite is a *system* of spinning, luminous concentric rings, often at different angles, each ring rimmed with eyes, the various rings constantly exchanging lightning bolts. The number of rings is equal to the number of celestial forces. The rings come in any colors, and look like the glowing region of plasma inside a neon light. The net result looks sort of like the standard hieroglyph for an atom, only jazzed up. I think the multiple rings give an ophanite in celestial form more scope for "expression." (The multiple wheels, the eyes, and the lightning are from Ezekiel.) Calabim -- Very similar to an ophanite in general, except the rings are of flames instead of pure glowing plasma. Also, the lightning is replaced by swarming fireballs, which the calabite can "spit" at targets. (Now they look more like their unfallen counterparts.) - --- Kyriotates -- Very much as in canon. They look like luminous clouds, through which one glimpses a constantly varying selection of eyes, mouths, hands, paws, wings, beaks, tails, etc. The cloud itself is usually white, golden, or prismatic, but can be any color. The bits visible may include things reflecting the Archangel who created the individual kyriotate, e.g. flowers and leaves (Novalis), gems (David), bits of machinery and lightning (Jean), a marked *absence* of human parts (Jordi), or tongues of flame (Gabriel). Sheddim -- They look like ragged black rips in the fabric of the Symphony. In that dark, one can glimpse feral eyes or gleaming fangs. Taloned, hawk-like claws may come snatching out of it. See the demon who featured in "Season of Mists," in Neil Gaiman's "Sandman" series. I believe his name was Azazel. (Now they have a more distinct appearance from their unfallen counterparts.) - --- Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 06:43:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Knop Subject: Re: IN> Re: Princess of Nitpicking > > I dunno... sure looks to me like y'all are brown-nosing :) > > > > -Rob, Djinn Servitor of Gluttony in service to Lightning > > You *just* figured that out? Its been rather obvious. The subtlety index passed below the threshold that Djinn would look up and take notice. Be afraid, be very afraid. - -Rob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:53:43 -0400 From: Robb Kidd Subject: Re: IN> Double Agents Anders Gabrielsson wrote: > Just thinking loud here... What if there were some malcontents on both > sides, who had a common agenda? They don't work for final victory for > Heaven -or- Hell, but for something completely different... Hmmm. _Good Omens_ anybody? It's suggested reading in the core book. An angel and a demon work together to thwart (or at least postpone) Armageggon because they'd grown rather fond of humanity and its corporeal trappings. - -- Robert Kidd - MIS National Center for Missing & Exploited Children ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 98 11:44 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Double Agents > Would it be possible for the fallen angel to stay in his position in >the heavenly host, unbeknownst to Gabby, passing on inside info, even >speaking with her and have her not realize immediately what was going on? Or >indeed any other arch (save perhaps dom... but wouldn't that be a coup!) This is actually slightly contradicted by canon in the IPG, which states (in the section on switching superiors, I think), that Superiors can pretty much tell who you are and what you've got in the way of attunements, distinctions, and Rites. It also contradicts the vignette in the main book where Nichole meets Gabriel and Gabriel immediately notices Nichole has a non-Fire Rite. This doesn't mean you can't do it -- it just means you need to be someone your Superior doesn't bother with dealing with directly. This is actually most of the celestial population. (Superiors are busy people.) There's actually a suggestion of something similar on the demonic side in the IPG section, where a demon may be serving another Superior than his nominal one, either in a trade, as a recruited agent, or as someone wanting to switch to the other Superior and trying to buy his way in with information. A demon masquerading as an angel is harder, but not impossible. One major problem is Malakim -- their resonance is going to pick up things that aren't consistent with angelic behavior. In other words, it's not impossible, just improbable. So it makes a good plot seed, but probably doesn't happen every day. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 98 11:51 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: IN> Habbalah >Speaking of Habbalah, I confess that I still have a very poor grasp on >them; why would an angel willingly serve demon princes? Simple -- they don't serve the Prince, they serve *God*. They just *use* the Prince (as God is doing). > It seems to me >that Habbalites would be loath to serve anyone other than Nybbas or the >handful of other Habbalite archangels... More to the point, how do they >justify working within the hierarchy of Hell at all? Because someone must do the dirty job of punishing the weak, and keeping them out of Heaven. The poor, deluded demons *think* they're rebelling, but they're actually serving God's Plan. Demons are such fools.... Think of it as "testing to destruction" -- i.e., think Job.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 17:04:21 +0100 From: "David Chart" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Princess of Nitpicking (was Re: GRAMMAR (Re: Fuzzy? (was Re: Character taxonomy))) - --On Mon, Apr 27, 1998 5:32 pm -0400 "Elizabeth McCoy" wrote: >>"Beth has higher distinctions, but so far, none of her Servitors have >>managed to accurately nitpick Asmodeus, Baal, Kronos, Dominic, Laurence or >>Yves and reported back." > > What do you think I'm going to assign to my new Knight? Oh, ****. That's the problem with meteoric rises in Hell: you finish up as a rock buried in mud. David Chart Balseraph Knight of Nitpicking Seraph Servitor of Destiny ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:56:46 -0400 From: Jesse Subject: Re: IN> The Hell/Heaven (im?)balance >>S >of course if following Judaism, Christianity and Islam, mainly the >latter religions, How can you say Judaism is a "latter religion?" Judaism is older than Buddhism, Taoism, and about as old as Hinduism. Sure there were faiths older than Judaism but they, mainly pagan and animistic faiths, are hardly worshipped anymore. As major faiths today go, Judaism is one of the eldest. - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:57:31 -0400 From: Jesse Subject: Re: IN> The Demon of Gun Control >Karniah >The Demon of Gun Control 1. I am not suprised at all that this would come out for a game published in Texas. 2. Gun Control is not just an American issue. From reading the Reuthers newswire it seems that it is an even bigger issue in Great Britian than the United States. David doesn't really deal with that in his write up, maybe he should. - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 98 12:08 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Angels & Gun Control >> Alternatively he could have just moved to Europe or Australia.... You know, >> I thought the single scariest line in the IPG was the comment that Impudites >> don't take police roles because they might have to kill too many people. >> I'm not making a political comment on this, just pointing out that culture >> differences exist. > >That jarred me too. Here in Sweden, it's national news if the police kill >someone. No kidding. Doesn't happen all *that* often here (the US), either, through probably a bit more than some more civilized places. I seem to recall reading somewhere that most police officers in the US never fire their weapons in their whole careers, except for practice. However, I've been pretty much convinced that the IN world is a little more violence-heavy than the real world -- with Shedim running around, you'd think the incidence of serial killers and the like would be higher than it actually is. In other words, the IN universe looks a lot more like the media image of the US.... (Maybe not as bad as Japanese anime tends to portray it, though.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:35:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Knop Subject: Re: IN> The Hell/Heaven (im?)balance > >>S >of course if following Judaism, Christianity and Islam, mainly the > >latter religions, > > How can you say Judaism is a "latter religion?" Judaism is older than Er... if I am not mistaken, I think latter was referring to position in the sentence rather than age of the religion. I.e., "mainly Christianity and Islam...". - -Rob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 17:47:16 +0100 From: "David Chart" Subject: Re: IN> Angels & Gun Control - --On Tue, Apr 28, 1998 9:44 am +0100 "Hart, Joanna" wrote: > Seriously though, do you think angels care about the 2nd amendment, other > than angels who are specifically assigned to the US? I doubt it. And those who do *will* disagree, much along the lines that David (the other David. No, the *other*... oh, never mind) suggested. Demons will also have different opinions, although I would guess that more are in favour of guns: if you have guns available, it's easier to do something permanent when you get angry, scared, or whatever, and once you've done something permanent, it's easier to corrupt you. (Who's going down faster, the man who slapped his wife for cheating on him, or the one who shot her?) And some demons (or angels) will be too busy trying to encourage cars, computers, cookies, cocaine, whatever, to even notice that the US has a constitution, never mind a Second Amendment. Those who have Words connected to it will, of course, care passionately (unless they're Elohim or Djinn), and Gun Control is certainly connected to it. David Chart Balseraph Knight of Nitpicking Seraph Servitor of Destiny ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:49:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Knop Subject: IN> Violent content > However, I've been pretty much convinced that the IN world is a little > more violence-heavy than the real world -- with Shedim running around, ^^^^^^ Not to mention Calabites, and Malakites, and Angels of War, and Angels of Wind, and Demons of Fire, and..... - -Rob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 18:18:08 +0100 From: "David Chart" Subject: Re: IN> The Demon of Gun Control - --On Tue, Apr 28, 1998 11:57 am -0400 Jesse wrote: > 1. I am not suprised at all that this would come out for a game published > in Texas. It was a response to my "Demon of the Second Amendment". As requested. Either that or the biggest coincidence I've encountered for a while. I had a more general point here, but it's going to get its own email. David Chart Balseraph Knight of Nitpicking Seraph Servitor of Destiny ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:12:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Bryan Subject: Re: IN> Double Agents On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Walter Milliken wrote: > A demon masquerading as an angel is harder, but not impossible. Until that "angel" gets called to heaven for a bit...then all Hell will break loose. Acutally, all of the Malakim in Heaven would break loose, but hey... Bryan Death is a low chemical trick played on everbody except sequoia trees. J.J. Furnas ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 98 13:37 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Double Agents >> A demon masquerading as an angel is harder, but not impossible. > >Until that "angel" gets called to heaven for a bit...then all Hell will >break loose. Well, actually all it does is end the masquerade -- unless the character's Superior is the one doing the summoning, there's a pretty good chance that the "angel" can run away to Hell. Someone else rightly pointed out that a broken Heart would be a tip-off. However, unlike demon Hearts, angelic ones aren't *necessarily* watched with great care. Also, even if the Superior knew the Heart was broken, this might be due to soul-death or Remnant-hood, rather than Falling. And I don't think every other angel and Soldier is necessarily informed that someone is Fallen or lost, so a turncoat might be able to do some further damage, albeit at increasing risk of getting caught trying to pull something off. The more organized AAs (Dominic, Laurence, Jean, Marc, and possibly Yves) probably alert any of their Servitors who knew the lost sheep, and they probably know who to inform. Others might not be that together (Eli and Gabriel certainly come to mind). Their Servitors might get fooled for a while until they got the word (probably after the new demon pulled off some major score that got talked around). - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 98 13:28 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Violent content >> However, I've been pretty much convinced that the IN world is a little >> more violence-heavy than the real world -- with Shedim running around, > ^^^^^^ > >Not to mention Calabites, and Malakites, and Angels of War, and Angels of >Wind, and Demons of Fire, and..... True, but only Shedim are *forced* to do this sort of thing. The rest of them just enjoy it.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:19:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Make-Up Department On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Seraphim -- Give the canonical seraph a total of six wings, a coat of > feathers, and four short legs. The result looks a lot like a winged and > six-eyed Chinese dragon (who are often shown using their forefeet as > hands). Since the feathery coat can have any color pattern at all, the I like it. I never liked the association with serpents for Seraphim. Dragons, on the other hand, have a certain air of nobility about them. > Ophanim -- Each ophanite is a *system* of spinning, luminous concentric > rings, often at different angles, each ring rimmed with eyes, the Isn't this the way it already is? At least, that's how I always imagined them. (Vide a previous post of mine detailing Ofanite rings and fly-by-wire.) > Calabim -- Very similar to an ophanite in general, except the rings are > of flames instead of pure glowing plasma. Also, the lightning is > replaced by swarming fireballs, which the calabite can "spit" at > targets. (Now they look more like their unfallen counterparts.) In my game, they are dark spirals. Not only does this reflect their fallen status (what as once a ring is now broken), but it nicely mirrors varous destructive aspects of nature, such as tornadoes, black holes, etc. - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:29:41 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Make-Up Department Casca wrote: > I like it. I never liked the association with serpents for Seraphim. Glad you like it. But there is a long-standing association of serpent with seraph, because "seraph" may be related to the Hebrew word for serpent. (The other possibility is that "seraph" is related to the Hebrew word for prince.) > Isn't this the way it already is? At least, that's how I always > imagined them. I was just going by the illustration in the IN book, which shows a single, eyeless wheel of fire. > In my game, they are dark spirals. Not only does this reflect their > fallen status (what as once a ring is now broken), but it nicely > mirrors varous destructive aspects of nature, such as tornadoes, > black holes, etc. A nice variation, yes. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:53:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Bryan Subject: IN> Dominic I have a general question about a plot seed of mine. The PCs have been causing a lot of disturbance in the Symphony lately, something along the lines of 50 pts every time. Would it be logical for Dominic to call the PCs up to Heaven to stand trial for their actions? Bryan Death is a low chemical trick played on everbody except sequoia trees. J.J. Furnas ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:08:45 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Dominic Bryan wrote: > The PCs have been causing a lot of disturbance in the Symphony > lately, something along the lines of 50 pts every time. > > Would it be logical for Dominic to call the PCs up to Heaven to > stand trial for their actions? I don't think a trial in Heaven is warranted, but they might attract the attentions of a Triad on Earth, and they could certainly get a single roving investigator dropping in. (Does Dominic *have* any single investigators? I'd think they'd be a reasonable "scouting" prelude to bringing in a Triad.) And, of course, lots of disturbance will attract attention from almost anyone. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:14:19 +0100 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Dominic At 13:53 28/04/98 -0500, you wrote: >I have a general question about a plot seed of mine. > >The PCs have been causing a lot of disturbance in the Symphony lately, >something along the lines of 50 pts every time. > >Would it be logical for Dominic to call the PCs up to Heaven to stand >trial for their actions? > I suspect he'd send out a triad first to see if there was likely to be enough evidence to warrent a trial up in heaven. jo - ---------- Chivalry is the art of lying magnificently. -- Ben Hecht jhart@btinternet.com -- http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~jhart/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:34:42 -0400 From: Jesse Subject: Re: IN> Violent content >True, but only Shedim are *forced* to do this sort of thing. The rest >of them just enjoy it.... No they are not forced to become serial killers. A Shedim can take a mild mannered person and corrupt him by doing otherwise innocous acts such as instulting someone, speeding on the highway, etc. if they go against the person's moral code. - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:58:33 EDT From: BarbarJoJo Subject: IN> Is anyone on this list in Austin? I'm located in the heart of Steve Jackson territory and can't seem to find players for Gurps and In Nomine. If you live in Austin and are looking for a good group to join, please contact me. We are ready to re-start our Friday night In Nomine campaign and need players to replace some who have left. Also, if you're bored on Saturdays, we have a Gurps group that could use players, as well. Thanks Marcia ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:00:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Ozdowski Subject: Re: IN> Dominic According to Earl Wajenberg: > I don't think a trial in Heaven is warranted, but they might > attract the attentions of a Triad on Earth, and they could certainly > get a single roving investigator dropping in. (Does Dominic > *have* any single investigators? I'd think they'd be a reasonable > "scouting" prelude to bringing in a Triad.) The player characters serving Dominic are his solo agents. They are actually his most trusted and capable agents. It says so in the main rule book somewhere but I don't feel like going and finding it :). I would guess that if player characters are out there, there sure are more. Anyways, Dan Ozdowski - -- You gotta remember, your most prominent part always sticks out to other people... -Matt Weyandt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 98 17:28 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Dominic >The PCs have been causing a lot of disturbance in the Symphony lately, >something along the lines of 50 pts every time. > >Would it be logical for Dominic to call the PCs up to Heaven to stand >trial for their actions? I wouldn't think so -- I'm not sure Dominic even *cares* about disturbance to the Symphony, as long as the people causing it aren't getting dissonant for it (i.e., Mercurians hurting humans). I see two main impacts from such large disturbances: - lots of demons come around to see what's going on (as well as angels from other Superiors who may not be entirely friendly) - the PC's *own* Superiors will start getting annoyed that everything their Servitors have been doing lately is being watched by the Other Side. The War is a cold war, and you generally don't want your operatives and operations exposed to the enemy. If you want a plot seed for noisy PCs, how about having their Superiors use them as a diversionary force while some *quiet* Servitors do the *real* work...? - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:02:33 GMT+10 From: "Leath Sheales" <938269@wrpc.riv.csu.edu.au> Subject: Re: IN> The Demon of Gun Control David wrote: > Karniah > The Demon of Gun Control > Habbalite Knight of the Game Very nice. I have been thinking about all these shool-yard shootings that have occurred recently in the US. IMO, this has to be the work of a servitor of Kobal (probably a Shedite, laughing all the way, ho ho ho). Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:09:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Ben-Prime Subject: IN> Technical difficulties. So I download the PDF format character sheets off of the SJG site, and find that they include some fonts that my own system does not. Hence, I get lines of dots in some places where I am reasonably sure I am supposed to have words. Do I need to sell my soul to Vapula (side note: Is it me or is there a clear etymology from 'Vapula' to 'vaporware'?) to get these fonts, or is there some easier way, eh? Ben - ----- emrys@netrox.net ---------------- http://www.netrox.net/~emrys/ ------ "When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I think only how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong." -- R. Buckminster Fuller - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- WhHi6G2>3 LCJRo hBrc+++g b69/83 B3^E1# a27+ sM1N10~ K8p k3BdSAbCehIOpRrTtxX QbEKLMRTtO v64s opLSO X6#7 w7T r6IsLM E+++ p9f7v4&g4s8 D36C(c*P*!# Hco+usFL7 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:57:06 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Re: Lucifer and Tabloids (was Re: 3 questions At 11:03 PM -0400 4/27/98, Mark Kinney wrote: >I meant to mention this earlier, but didn't. > >In last week's Weekly World News, they say that the whole war against God >and all wasn't even Lucifer's idea. > >According to them, Lilith talked him into it. > >Discuss.... :-) You're going to take a Tabloid's word for it? (Hey, did they get quotes from him? Will you believe a *Balseraph*?) O;> - --Beth, Archangel of Archives http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Angels/Arcangel.Beth.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:00:27 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: Princess of Nitpicking At 10:46 PM -0400 4/27/98, Pee Kitty wrote: >On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>At 10:51 PM -0400 4/24/98, Pee Kitty wrote: >>>(Hmmm...maybe I should apply for service under Nitpicking....) >> >>>here, we can put it on in just a moment...> > > Whoa! Tattoo? I'm not sure...I still haven't figured out >of I'm a Balseraph who's talked emself into believing e's a Habbalite, or >a Habbalite under the delusion of being a Balseraph. Either way, that >sounds really ominous to one part of me and strangely attractive to the >other....:) We also have some nice wing-jewelry, and the tattoos will look pretty on the wing-leather as well, so does it matter? - --Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Prince.Beth.html ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #733 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.