From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Apr 30 11:08:42 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA19097 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:08:42 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id KAA23857 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 10:16:14 -0500 Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 10:16:14 -0500 Message-Id: <199804301516.KAA23857@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #739 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, April 30 1998 Volume 01 : Number 739 In this digest: IN> Abortion Angels Re: IN> Question about Motion (Celestial) Re: IN> how many Words have Angels Re: IN> Angels and Dicey Words Re: IN> Question about Motion (Celestial) Re: IN> Abortion in IN Re: IN> Celestials of Abortion (was The Demon of Gun Control) Re: IN> The Demon of Gun Control Re: IN>Demon Prince Auditions Re: IN> how many Words have Angels Re: IN> num.corp. question Re: IN> num.corp. question Re: IN> Abortion Re: IN> num.corp. question IN> IN: Soul attachement IN> IN: Impregnation by demons - The Kingdom spoilers! Re: IN>abortion (formerly:The Demon of Gun Control) Re: IN> Stern Warnings (Re: The Demon of Gun Control) Re: IN> how many Words have Angels Re: IN> The Demon of Gun Control Re: IN> The Demon of Gun Control Re: IN> Celestials of Abortion (was The Demon of Gun Control) IN> Playing IN for laughs... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 06:45:35 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Abortion Angels "I _really_ don't understand you," the first angel said. "I know," said the second. "You're not alone." "We're angels, for God's sake! We're supposed to be protecting life! And you - a Servitor of Flowers! Novalis is as pro-life as any Archangel! Whatever possessed Novalis to sponsor a Word like that....or the Seraphim Council to grant it?" "Presumably greater wisdom than yours," retorted the second angel, causing the first to flush angrily. But she went on: "Novalis isn't just pro-life. She's also pro-happiness and pro-compassion. She's concerned with the quality of life, not just its mere existence. She wants children to be nurtured and treasured, and she wants women to have a safe, loving environment in which to do that. It doesn't support her Word to force women to bear children against their will, nor to surround childbirth with guilt and oppression." "But it does support her Word to encourage women to kill them when they're inconvenient?" The Angel of Abortion sighed. "No, she's trying very hard to create a world in which every child is a wanted child..." "Oh please. We know each other's slogans by heart." "Yes. So why are we doing this again? I suppose next you'll be making some snide comment about herbal abortificants, and I'll be making a crack about using flaming swords on abortionists..." The two angels looked at one another, and as so often before, sighed and turned away. They were both Malakim, so they knew better than anyone the futility of trying to persuade the other. =============================================================== Shachim Angel of the Unborn Malakite of the Sword Corporeal Forces - 5 (Strength 10, Agility 10) Ethereal Forces - 3 (Intelligence 6, Precision 6) Celestial Forces - 4 (Will 8, Perception 8) Vessels: Human/3 Skills: Detect Lies/3, Emote/3, Fighting/3, Knowledge (Obstetrics/4, Abortion Laws/5), Large Weapon (Sword/4) Songs: Charm (Corporeal/6), Dreams (Corporeal/3, Celestial/3), Healing (Corporeal/3), Light (Corporeal/2), Tongues (Corporeal/3, Ethereal/3, Celestial/1), Wings/2 Artifacts: Fiery Sword/4 Attunements: Malakite of the Sword, Seraph of the Sword, Elohite of the Sword, Hunt, Angel of the Unborn Special Attunement: As the Angel of the Unborn, Shachim knows at a glance if a woman is pregnant, and how far along she is. He can also get a general idea of the fetus's health with a Perception roll. Applying his resonance to a pregnant woman will provide information about her maternal feelings (in addition to the normal Malakim resonance information), including such things as how she feels about her pregnancy, how well she is taking care of herself and her unborn child, and whether or not she is considering an abortion (and if so -- on a high check digit -- why). Special Rites: Shachim gets a point of Essence for each child he causes to be born that would otherwise have been aborted or miscarried. He also gains a point of Essence for preventing an _imminent_ abortion (whether by talking someone out of going into a clinic, or physically preventing the procedure). Additional Malakite Oaths: Do not fail to prevent an abortion if he has the ability to do so; protect unborn children from harm; destroy anyone who knowingly and maliciously causes harm to the unborn if he has the means to do so. - --------------------------------------------------------------------- Shachim is a pro-life fanatic - being a Word-bound Malakite, he can't be otherwise. But he's an intelligent, reasonable fanatic, as contradictory as that may seem. He considers abortion to be an evil thing, but he knows very well that not every person who has or performs an abortion is evil. Nonetheless, he cannot condone abortion, for any reason. His Word is the Unborn; for him, there is no question that life begins at conception and an unborn child is a human being that must be treated as such. He is not unsympathetic to rape and incest victims, but will point out that the child should not be murdered for the circumstances of its conceptions. Likewise he will defend children who may be born deformed or retarded ("We don't kill such children after they're born, why should it be acceptable to murder them before birth for their imperfections?"). Hazards to the mother are also secondary, in his view. Shachim will try to prevent abortion by any _honorable_ means available. He's not above pulling the "Vengeful Angel of the Lord" routine when it will prove effective; he considers justifiable guilt to be an honorable tactic. (This is how he most often uses the Song of Light and Numinous Corpus/Wings.) But he's also willing to try to help a pregnant woman, offering money and shelter and protection from abusive boyfriends if she will carry her child to term. He is involved in several hospice organizations. If all else fails, though, he's also willing to physically prevent someone from entering an abortion clinic. Shachim does not, in general, support actions such as bombing abortion clinics and shooting abortion doctors. He is compelled to heed his resonance, and many abortionists believe they are doing the right thing, relative to their own standards. Therefore, he cannot consider them evil and worthy of death. However, there are those who perform abortion purely for profit, with no concern for their patients, particularly in countries where it is common practice to abort girls. Those who are what he calls "abortion profiteers" are fair game. He also seeks to have the unborn protected in other ways - he will snatch cigarettes and alcoholic drinks out of the hands of pregnant women, and even chase them out of bars. He also visits women in their dreams, crafting both encouraging dreams and nightmares to help them make the "right" decision. (Blandine takes a dim view of some of Shachim's methods.) Laurence has yet to grant Shachim a Distinction, as Shachim is a relative newcomer to the Word, and the Archangel of the Sword would like to see more definitive steps taken. Preventing individual abortions is a worthy activity, but Laurence wants society to gain more respect for life and embrace the sort of moral values he considers beneficial, not just pass laws against one sin while doing nothing to address the root causes. Shachim also faces a problem in that not all angels agree with his pro-life stance, and he's been unable to root out enough diabolical involvement in abortion to prove to the Host that Hell is benefiting from and supporting abortion rights. Right now, Shachim is trying to make friends with angels of Destiny, so he can look for endangered unborn children with particularly bright destinies, and save them. He would _love_ to earn Yves' Divine Logic attunement.... Although Shachim assumes Yves should oppose abortion since it can rob so many of their destinies, the Archangel of Destiny has not yet expressed an opinion on the matter. =============================================================== Maranel Angel of Abortion Malakite Vassal of Flowers Corporeal Forces - 3 (Strength 5, Agility 7) Ethereal Forces - 5 (Intelligence 12, Precision 8) Celestial Forces - 4 (Will 7, Perception 9) Vessels: Human/3 Role: OB/GYN (Dr. Jane Gardener)/3, Status 3 Skills: Detect Lies/3, Driving/1, Knowledge (Abortion Methods/6), Medicine/5 Songs: Attraction (Celestial/3), Form (Corporeal/3, Ethereal/3), Harmony (Corporeal/6, Ethereal/6), Healing (Corporeal/6), Motion (Celestial/5), Shields (Corporeal/2, Ethereal/2) Attunements: Malakite of Flowers, Seraph of Flowers, Cherub of Flowers, Vassal of Flowers, Angel of Abortion Special Attunement: As the Angel of Abortion, Maranel's presence guarantees that any abortion will be successful and free of any complications. She can also apply her resonance to anyone, and learn what they think of abortion (in addition to normal information gained by the resonance). Special Rites: Assist in or perform an abortion; help a woman make the right (for _her_) moral decision about whether or not to have an abortion. Additional Malakite Oaths: Help anyone who needs an abortion get one; prevent anyone from being compelled to make a decision about childbirth; make abortion as safe as possible for anyone who is going to have one. - --------------------------------------------------------------------- Maranel has a hard row to hoe in Heaven. She is perhaps the only Word-bound angel whose ultimate goal is the extinction of her own Word. Many Archangels (including Dominic, Laurence, Christopher, Zadkiel, and even Eli) are either ambivalent or downright hostile to her Word. Her own Archangel, Novalis, is indeed pro-life by natural inclination. But for millennia, Novalis has also been the only Archangel willing to provide the succor so desperately needed by women in extremis. It is a grievous, painful service she provides, and the angel of Abortion (Maranel is not the first) must be one Novalis can trust to uphold the Word within very narrow parameters. Maranel does not _encourage_ abortion. She does not even like it. But she is mindful of the greater evils that can arise in the absence of any choice. So she works to keep different methods of abortion available, as safely as possible, and strives to give women maximal opportunity to make an informed choice they will not regret. She leaves it to her Superior to strive for a world in which her Word will no longer be needed. Previous Angels of Abortion have had different views on such matters as the rights of the mother balanced against the rights of the child, when a fetus becomes a human being, etc. It is a difficult, almost impossibly thin line to walk, and some of Maranel's predecessors have run afoul of Judgment, at least one has Fallen, and others have been killed (not always by demons...) Maranel will support any woman who decides abortion is the right choice, after making sure the decision is a fully informed one made without duress. The wording of her oath is critical; she will help anyone who _needs_ an abortion, and "need" is defined by what Maranel reads from her resonance. Some women believe abortion is wrong, yet seek it anyway, and Maranel does her best to help them find another solution. Others use it as a convenient solution to irresponsible behavior, and the Malakite takes a dim view of them. She will not, however, try to actively prevent anyone from getting an abortion, and if someone is going to have an abortion, Maranel will never stand by and do nothing if she can do something to make the abortion safer and more humane. Like Shachim, the Angel of the Unborn, she is more than willing to vent her wrath against back-alley butchers. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:45:29 +0100 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: IN> Question about Motion (Celestial) >This time it worked, because it >was the Bal's nature to die funny. The next time they try to, say, >teleport a metal plate through the neck of a servant of the game, he might >just get pissed. Well, it _is_ funny ;-) But I'd say that if the PCs can do this, then the NPCs can also. Let one of the PCs take a 'get back to your heart and don't pass GO' next time. Thats how I usually interpret house rules or rules-stretching cunning PC plans (well, if you could have thought of it, so could someone else). jo, demon of fair play for NPCs! (Yes, I know. I am mean.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:12:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Ben-Prime Subject: Re: IN> how many Words have Angels On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, Brandon Quina wrote: > 2) A good many words just arnt assigned by heaven. There > arnt any angels of lint, or angels of tweasers. I can imagine > their being demons of 'useless' words, as its a way that lucifer > punishes demons who step out of bounds. Still, thats hardly a > good thing. I doubt the demon of asskissers would get much > respect in hell, afterall. But oh, my, would he be a very good asskisser, indeed. (Waylon Smithers, Impudite Captain of Greed, Demon of Asskissers) > 3) Its *hard* to get a word. The more important the word > is, the harder it is to get. I have yet to have a player actually > earn a word, though all of them have tried to earn them at various > points. Currently, I have a prospective Angels of Freedom and > Recovering Addicts. Heaven is more true to this, but in hell its > hard to get a USEFUL word-- you might really want to become the > demon of lawyers, but if you ask too soon you might end up the > demon of lint. Add this to the fact that there is lots of compition, > and its not easy at all. Last night, reading the beginnings of this discussion on Words, I sat down and tried to create a few that I thought would be untaken. Obviously, most of them rely on modern (let us say, 18th-20th century) culture and technology. - ----- emrys@netrox.net ---------------- http://www.netrox.net/~emrys/ ------ "When I am working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I think only how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong." -- R. Buckminster Fuller - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- WhHi6G2>3 LCJRo hBrc+++g b69/83 B3^E1# a27+ sM1N10~ K8p k3BdSAbCehIOpRrTtxX QbEKLMRTtO v64s opLSO X6#7 w7T r6IsLM E+++ p9f7v4&g4s8 D36C(c*P*!# Hco+usFL7 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:21:04 +0100 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: IN> Angels and Dicey Words - ---Steve Jessop wrote: > This is why he doesn't get on with Novalis. She's *nice*. I think *niceness* in itself is not the problem -- it might be cause for personal dislike or disdain but a good angel can get on professionally with someone without necessarily having to like them or agree with everything they do. The problem with Novalis (from Michael's perspective) is neither that she is nice, nor that she is kind, nor that she is merciful, nor that she is forgiving. All of those things have their place, although one might desire a little seasoning with all the saccharine. It is that she seems incapable of understanding that not everyone from the Other Side (or even their own) also wishes to be that fluffy. It is that she is as much a die-hard fanatic in her way as any of the other archangels. She would let her desire for peace completely over-rule all bounds of common sense, and her rigid vision of how she thinks things should be force others into her own standards of behaviour. Not only does Michael find this over-optimistic in the extreme, but it is a point of view that is also _blinkered_ and dangerously wrong. Worse than that, it is very appealing to the less military minded superiors. Like a balseraph, she is preaching what they so badly would like to believe; that a little love will make everything right. Michael would like to believe that too, but he knows better and he also knows that he must ensure that the seraphim council is not swayed by her arguments. He tells his angels to keep a close eye on servitors of flowers because they will _in all innocence_ fraternise with the enemy and leave themselves open to manipulation. jo - -- URL of the day (thank you Richard!) http://www.rossetta.com/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:37:18 -0400 From: Andrew Frades Subject: Re: IN> Question about Motion (Celestial) Emily Dresner wrote: > Okay, I had to make a spot ruling last night because the instructions > under the Celestial Song of Motion really, truly, don't cover all the uses > of this song. To whit, the Mercurian of the Wind, Dylan, decided to > teleport a large 17" television set into the chest of the Infernal > Intervention Causing Balseraph. And yes, it was rather fatal. Gaaack, > fall over, dead. > > I ruled he could do this, because it was way too funny not to. The > instructions say that you can teleport an object. Away. Not into someone > or something. Just away. But I, in my infinite wisdom, decided to let it > pass. > > I would like to know: > > A) What is the ruling on teleporting objects? > B) What is the ruling on picking the destination of teleportation? > C) Can you teleport something into someone? A. No problem. The wording is a bit weird in the song refering to teleporting an object and then refering to a number of pounds in addition to themselves. I have ruled that this number is a total number of pounds and thus the song allows teleportation of other beings as well. B. You can teleport to any location that you can see or that you have been to and visualize well as long as it is with your calculated range. C. In a word... no. This is too much of an instant kill and this is a bad thing. Oh, we are having a little trouble fighting that really tough adversary you made up Mr. GM so we just teleport a TV into every enemy that we can't fight in straight combat. That will kill anything, right? Bad precedent. I finish that these are only my opinions. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:16:55 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Abortion in IN On Wed, Apr 29, 1998 at 10:06:13PM -0400, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: > An angel (or a demon) could simply *look* and tell if an abortion > is a murder or not, by checking to see if there is a soul attached > to the fetus. How? Possibly Servitors of Fate and Destiny can do Divine Destiny or Fated Future (and maybe the potential Fate/Destiny is there before the soul), but the average Celestial can't know just by looking, though they can attempt their resonances. This is also useless for Seraphim, Balseraphs, Malakim (do you honestly think babies have a sense of honour and ethics?), Ofanim, most Calabim, most Cherubim, most Djinn, and most Lilim. Where I've specified most, use of the Song of Possession is required in order to get physical contact, and in the case of Lilim and Calabim, the relevant Lust attunements. And of course, for most of the others, in order to see the foetus, you have to be using ultrasound scans or the likes. And in any event, a blank proves nothing, as you can't differentiate this from an ordinary failure of resonance. If you could tell by looking at foetuses whether they had souls, you could do the same for Remnants. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "He was wont moreover to complain openly of the condition of the times wherein he lived, as not being renowned by any public calamities...And, at times, he wished for some terrible carnage of his armies, a famine, a pestilence, conflagrations, or an earthquake." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:02:08 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Celestials of Abortion (was The Demon of Gun Control) On Wed, Apr 29, 1998 at 10:20:28PM -0400, Pee Kitty wrote: > On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, David Edelstein wrote: > > > The Angels and Demons of Abortion will be appearing shortly.... > > Lemme posit...an Elohite of Destiny and an Impudite of Saminga? > An Impudite is a possibility, but I'd go for a Habbalite myself. The unborn are, after all, the ultimate in physical weakness, and I think most Habbalah find the idea of pregnancy revolting. Also, it makes for more edginess to have corresponding Words held by members of the corresponding Choir/Band. I'd tend to go for an Elohite of Destiny as the Angel of Abortion myself. (I'm differentiating the Word of Abortion from the Word of Abortion Counselling. There are important differences in emphasis.) Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "He was wont moreover to complain openly of the condition of the times wherein he lived, as not being renowned by any public calamities...And, at times, he wished for some terrible carnage of his armies, a famine, a pestilence, conflagrations, or an earthquake." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:40:50 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> The Demon of Gun Control On Wed, Apr 29, 1998 at 11:19:59PM -0400, Brandon Quina wrote: > > > one of them. Its murder after all. The ability of one human to > > knowingly and willingly extinguish the life of another, and, even > > more, a > > > I have to disagree. Night Music, pg 80. Druiel. The angel of > 'TEENAGE DEATH'. A seraph, admittingly on the verge of falling. > He kills teenagers, trying to do a greater good. And why is he on the verge of Falling? Because his behaviour is dissonant, assuming that you count teenagers as children. He's perverting the intent of his Word, which is in fact to prevent teenagers from engaging in reckless behaviour by making them aware of the fact that they are mortal. Killing people in order to do this is ridiculous. I couldn't understand during that game how anyone could be awarded that Word, but when I saw the rites it made sense. His superior, > CHRISTOPHER-- the archangel of children --knows what he does, > and hasnt outcast him yet. > That's questionable. Archangels can't monitor all of their Servitors at once, and I doubt any Superior in Heaven would encourage dissonant behaviour. > There is undoubtably a angel of abortion (or what-ever word you > perfer). > I'm dubious about this (at least in the sense of promoting abortion), largely because I'm anti-abortion myself, but if there were such an angel, I doubt that it could be a Mercurian, or a Servitor of Flowers or Children, because I see it as an act of violence, and I find it hard to imagine a Cherub filling it either. (Since I think that given the choice of dying or letting someone incapable of protecting themselves die, the average Cherub would choose to sacrifice themselves.) Obviously, I am excluding such situations as ectopic pregnancies where the child has no chance of surviving anyway. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "He was wont moreover to complain openly of the condition of the times wherein he lived, as not being renowned by any public calamities...And, at times, he wished for some terrible carnage of his armies, a famine, a pestilence, conflagrations, or an earthquake." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:20:32 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN>Demon Prince Auditions On Wed, Apr 29, 1998 at 02:26:07PM -0400, Jesse wrote: > Baal: Ronald Reagan Hmm...I like to think that Baal doesn't resonate on himself as much as Ronald Reagan does, and knew before visiting that South America was composed of more than one country, and doesn't refer to "starvation diets of sawdust" when talking about Russia. Honestly, I'd see the Spitting Image portrayals of him every single time I saw him. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "He was wont moreover to complain openly of the condition of the times wherein he lived, as not being renowned by any public calamities...And, at times, he wished for some terrible carnage of his armies, a famine, a pestilence, conflagrations, or an earthquake." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:27:27 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> how many Words have Angels On Wed, Apr 29, 1998 at 11:46:06PM -0400, Brandon Quina wrote: > > Sure, Sloth DID, but now Meserach (? - don't have my books with me) > > is dead and gone. No more Demon of Sloth. > > I wonder how one would try to become the Demon of Sloth. I mean, > if you tried to actually DO ANYTHING to 'earn' the word, you wouldnt > really be worthy of it. Assigning the word would pretty much have > to be entirly on lucifers initiative. > Sloth is a state of mind, and contains the vitally important condition that you do actually really want to do something but can't bring yourself to do it (most of the time). After all, if you don't care about something, failing to do something about it isn't laziness. So in order to maintain the fine line between slothfulness and apathy, it is necessary sometimes to actually do something, so that you can prove that you do actually care about it and that it's laziness that's stopping you, rather than apathy. Also, persuading people to avoid doing something important in favour of something unimportant could be regarded as promoting sloth. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "He was wont moreover to complain openly of the condition of the times wherein he lived, as not being renowned by any public calamities...And, at times, he wished for some terrible carnage of his armies, a famine, a pestilence, conflagrations, or an earthquake." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:02:29 +0100 From: Sam Kington Subject: Re: IN> num.corp. question Titus 3 11 wrote: > Acid is, from a rule-mongering perspective, the best combat song, with > accuracy and power equal to its level (compare to claws - power equal to > level, accuracy +1/+0). Well, the Numinous Corpus songs *are* unbalanced to some extent. Just a thought - unlike claws, wings, hooves etc. which you turn on for the duration of the song (and can turn off and on at will), acid is very much a one-shot thing. You could argue that once you've spat acid at someone, the song ends - although this is probably making it too weak. Alternatively, either allow them to spit acid (skill level) times, or (Essence spent) times. Sam - -- Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ INWO Homebrew has moved: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/inwo/ Not my employer's opinion, no snappy quote ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:11:48 +0100 () From: "David.Evans" Subject: Re: IN> num.corp. question Sam Kingston wrote: > > Titus 3 11 wrote: > > Acid is, from a rule-mongering perspective, the best combat song, with > > accuracy and power equal to its level (compare to claws - power equal to > > level, accuracy +1/+0). > > Well, the Numinous Corpus songs *are* unbalanced to some extent. Just a > thought - unlike claws, wings, hooves etc. which you turn on for the > duration of the song (and can turn off and on at will), acid is very > much a one-shot thing. You could argue that once you've spat acid at > someone, the song ends - although this is probably making it too weak. > > Alternatively, either allow them to spit acid (skill level) times, or > (Essence spent) times. > Sonone (I forget who) gave a more enterprising "fix" to this overpowered Numinous Corpus Song, by making the SUM of it's Accuracy and Power Equal to its Level (with neither able to go below zero). Eg, a Calabite with NC: Acid/5 is busy slugging it out with a Cherub and decides to make use of this Song. After sucessfully singing the Song (or if it was perpared beforehand, he now has an Acid attack, with an Accuracy of +1 and a Power of +4 (or some combination thereof). Personally, I would make the Singer specify as the Song was being sung what the desired combination of Power and Accuracy should be for that particular duration of the Song. This is up on one or both of the INC pages, AFAIK. Be seeing you... David. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:17:33 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> Abortion On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, Elizabeth Bartley wrote: > I also imagine that the _In Nomine_ angels are bright enough to realize > that the humans on Earth don't have the advantage of indisputable evidence > about when the fetus gains a soul. You should also remember that angels aren't against killing people when necessary, and I think this would include unborn humans. Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! "I kick arse for the Lord!" - Father McGruder ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:27:05 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> num.corp. question On Thu, Apr 30, 1998 at 05:15:34AM -0500, Titus 3 11 wrote: > Acid is, from a rule-mongering perspective, the best combat song, with > accuracy and power equal to its level (compare to claws - power equal to > level, accuracy +1/+0). > Would one of the few, but powerful and skilled, demons of nitpicking or > angels of the archives set me straight? You are, in fact, entirely correct if you exclude the utility of extra actions, and base your decision solely on the rules. Various ideas have been put forward to deal with the problem. One is to base it on Precision. Though this has no inherent effect on its power, it makes more sense. Another is to remove the positive effect of the Fighting skill on the roll. After that it can either be maintained in the existing format, or the Power/Accuracy bonuses can be spread and a new Spitting skill gets added. (ie Power+Accuracy = Song level, in any user-specified combination). The house rules I've seen posted are i) Change the Power and Accuracy as defined above and nothing more. ii) Make it Precision + Spitting with Power and Accuracy bonuses modified iii) Make it solely Precision based and retain the Power and Accuracy descriptions. (the one I made up) Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "He was wont moreover to complain openly of the condition of the times wherein he lived, as not being renowned by any public calamities...And, at times, he wished for some terrible carnage of his armies, a famine, a pestilence, conflagrations, or an earthquake." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:41:04 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: IN> IN: Soul attachement On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Heretic103 wrote: > On second thought maybe this might be eli's area I would think so - creating life is at the heart of his word, I think. That doesn't keep Yves from knowing, though. Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! "I kick arse for the Lord!" - Father McGruder ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:59:54 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: IN> IN: Impregnation by demons - The Kingdom spoilers! On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Jo Hart wrote: > Or more nastily, what if some demon decides to > impregnate someone (using the song of fruition)? SPOILERS for Lars von Trier's excellent TV series "The Kingdom" which I think is completely unknown to people on this list, but you never know. :) In this series a child is born to a human who has been impregnated by a demon - a monstrous, but still incredibly kind and gentle soul. He asks his mother to kill him, so that he will not be tempted by the demon to become evil. Incredibly sad. Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! "I kick arse for the Lord!" - Father McGruder ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:11:54 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN>abortion (formerly:The Demon of Gun Control) **NIGHT MUSIC SPOILERS** Titus 3 11 writes >Julian - although I enjoyed reading your arguements, do you really think >its an appropriate post on this list? How about >"I think abortion is wrong, period" or something equally succint? >No offense to your views, but I don't think the post was appropriate. Well, admittedly, its a hot topic, but that shouldn't stop us from discussing it upon the lists if done in a way that does not offend anyone. Whether or not I view abortion as right or wrong *in real life* is not what's at question; what IS at question is how does Heaven justify certain stands on difficult topics? As an example, I could cite suicide. Also a delicate topic, yet one which *has* been discussed, _and in canon_. In NM, there is a Baroness of Suicide, Tania. There is to date however, no Angelic Patron with the same Word. Should there be, or is suicide something that Heaven, en masse, sees as being 'wrong'? Now there may well be angels who tend to sympathise with certain aspects of suicide (such as when the person in question is suffering a prolongued agonizing death and wishes to end it all) and that's to be expected. Yet this would *IMHO* be against the Law of Heaven, and likely to bring you to the attention of The Inquisition, if you were actively voicing your opinions. - -- Julian jules@bigjules.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:24:51 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> Stern Warnings (Re: The Demon of Gun Control) Elizabeth McCoy writes >At 12:32 AM +0100 4/30/98, Julian Breen wrote: >> Although IN is played in various shades, there are some things >>that are seen by Heaven as simply being 'wrong', and abortion has to be >>one of them. > >This is a Canon Area of Doubt And Uncertainty. And since it *is* so >very personal a topic, please be *blessed* careful how you treat it in >any discussions. > >(IOW, if this turns into a pro-choice/pro-life flamefest, anyone >participating will get stern email, and anyone who goes out of bounds, >over the top, etc., will get kicked off the list. Do I make myself >clear?) I appreciate that this is a delicate topic Beth, and I hope that we're able to discuss such things maturely and sensibly. I think that we are. I don't, and won't, flame anybody at all, period. Their personal opinions on these lists are their own, and very likely to be simply game related anyway. _As are mine_. If anyone wishes to flame me of course, feel free, but *please*, keep it off-list :) Name-calling doesn't worry me but Enraged Demon Princesses do... - -- Julian jules@bigjules.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 09:43:28 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> how many Words have Angels Brandon Quina wrote: > I wonder how one would try to become the Demon of Sloth. I mean, > if you tried to actually DO ANYTHING to 'earn' the word, you > wouldnt really be worthy of it. This brings up an aspect of the logic of Words that has given me pause. It's this: There is a difference between PROMOTING a Word and EXHIBITING a Word. So, for instance, to promote Wrath, I don't have to be angry all the time myself. It could work that way, sure, since angry people pick fights and thereby anger others. But I can also spread wrath while in a perfectly good temper myself, by being ANNOYING. Similarly, a demon could promote Sloth by urging others not to bother to do the things they know they ought, and REALLY HUSTLE about doing all that urging. In the particular case of Sloth, it seems that promoting the Word *requires* not exhibiting it. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:26:07 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> The Demon of Gun Control >>>>I cannot agree. Not *any* topic. For my tastes, that's liberalising >Heaven a little too much. In the example of abortion, any angel >advocating the pro-choice approach should be well on his way to Falling, >IMHO. Although IN is played in various shades, there are some things >that are seen by Heaven as simply being 'wrong', and abortion has to be >one of them. Its murder after all. The ability of one human to knowingly >and willingly extinguish the life of another, and, even more, a complete >innocent at that (unless you believe in Original Sin).<<< > > >That's all very interesting....and your subjective opinion. You're >basically quoting the pro-life position and then stating for a fact that it >must be correct (or seen by Heaven as being correct). Thank you ;), and yes, it is, in much the same way that the comment that spawned it was *your* subjective opinion. Aren't these lists something of a forum for such? > >The Angels and Demons of Abortion will be appearing shortly.... > >- -David > Excellent! This is going to be informative... :) - -- Julian jules@bigjules.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 09:48:12 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> The Demon of Gun Control Jo Hart wrote: > in Catholicism (and I assume all other branches of > Christianity?) abortion is always wrong, No, Christianity is not uniform on this. While some denominations have clearly opposed abortion, others have deliberately not taken a position on the issue. (I don't know of any that have declared themselves pro-choice.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:43:26 -0700 (PDT) From: "Matt 'Badger' Rossi III" Subject: Re: IN> Celestials of Abortion (was The Demon of Gun Control) > > On Wed, Apr 29, 1998 at 10:20:28PM -0400, Pee Kitty wrote: > > On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, David Edelstein wrote: > > > > > The Angels and Demons of Abortion will be appearing shortly.... > > > > Lemme posit...an Elohite of Destiny and an Impudite of Saminga? > > > An Impudite is a possibility, but I'd go for a Habbalite myself. The > unborn are, after all, the ultimate in physical weakness, and I think most > Habbalah find the idea of pregnancy revolting. Also, it makes for more > edginess to have corresponding Words held by members of the corresponding > Choir/Band. Uhm...just one thought, and then I'll go: The word Abortion has a lot more meaning than simply 'Termination of the unborn.' For instance, the Angel of Abortion might very well have spent a lot of time in the Cold War prventing Nuclear Missle Launches. Badger ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:03:19 -0700 (PDT) From: "Matt 'Badger' Rossi III" Subject: IN> Playing IN for laughs... It just occurred to me, as I was reading through the discussion on the nature o Words and Abortion that y'all breathe some rareified air around here. It made me wonder what your games are like: Do you all use In Nomine to explore the nature of fredom, salvation and damnation, or individual responsibility? Cause I spend a lot of time stealing polar bears from zoos. So far, in the game I'm in (we rotate GM's) my character has stolen a polar bear from the San Antonio zoo, thanks to Derek, the Archangel of Good Ideas...then I went on to engineer a stunning triumph against the forces of evil by taping the Tibetan Freedom Concert and managing to get the tape broadcast instead of The MacLaughlin Group, Rush Limbaugh and several OTHER Pedants' broadcasts. From there I GM'd as the group (Which consists of a Kyriotate of Animals, a Bright Lilim in service to Yves and an Ofanim of Flowers in addition to my Malakim of Fire...with the rotating arrangement, you can see how we get time to interact in odd ways) decided that they simply had to stop the demonic forces of a certain Software company. They did so with mud pies and a chase through a large playground, complete with Soldiers of Hell wearing clown noses. Oh, and one of our favorite NPC's is a Man in a black trenchcoat and a fedora who is known as the Blatant Stranger (Picture the Phantom Stranger, except he gets right to th point and tells you everything he knows freely. Unfotunately, he doesn't realy know as much as we'd like...) I was just wondering: Am I the only one on the list who sees Asmodeus as an Infernal Tom Jones (Both of them?) or Micheal as Micheal Wincott? Am I the only one who enjoys it when th servitors of Kobal show up? Badger ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #739 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.