From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu May 7 13:18:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA23443 for ; Thu, 7 May 1998 13:18:57 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id NAA25463 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 7 May 1998 13:16:05 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:16:05 -0500 Message-Id: <199805071816.NAA25463@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #762 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, May 7 1998 Volume 01 : Number 762 In this digest: Re: IN> Baal and Michael Re: IN> Double agents again Re: IN> Two NPCS for your perusal Re: IN> Baal and Michael Re: IN> Two NPCS for your perusal Re: IN> Lying (was Re: IN> Seraphim and the TRUTH. (help!) Re: IN> Two NPCS for your perusal IN> In Nomine character maximums Re: IN> Essence "flavors" Re: IN> Two NPCS for your perusal IN> More Questions. Re: IN> Gorethiel, Demon of BFGs Re: IN> In Nomine character maximums Re: IN> Drat! But thank you.... IN> Resonances and natural environments Re: IN> More Questions. Re: IN>Demon Prince Audition Re: IN> Baal and Michael Re: IN> In Nomine character maximums Re: IN> Two NPCS for your perusal Huh...I did not know that...(was Re: IN> A Question) Re: IN> Gorethiel, Demon of BFGs Re: IN> djinn and healing Re: IN> Gorethiel, Demon of BFGs Re: IN> In Nomine character maximums Re: IN> More Questions. Re: IN> In Nomine character maximums Re: IN> Two NPCS for your perusal Re: IN> More Questions. Re: IN> Two NPCS for your perusal Re: IN>Demon Prince Audition Re: IN> Re: IN- In the hands of Angels... Re: IN> In Nomine character maximums Re: IN> In Nomine FTP site IN> Drawing Canon IN> The Final Trumpet ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 07 May 98 11:55 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Baal and Michael >What was Baal's Word as an Archangel? Obviously, he wasn't the Archangel >of the War at the time, so what did he resonate? It may have been "Change" or something similar -- Janus' Word may have acquired that aspect later, after Baal Fell. Also, such a Word might explain why Baal was more susceptible to Lucifer's arguments than the other first-generation angels. >As a side note, I think Michael's true Word must be Conflict-the conflict >that promotes change, growth, and improvement. It's the only reason I can >think of that he would be one of the Archangels who "stirred everything >up". When the War in Heaven began, God ordered him to emphasize the War >aspect of the Word of Conflict. His Word *might* have changed. Or it may have meant "war against chaos/entropy" -- Words *can* change meaning over time, as the Symphony evolves. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 May 98 12:12 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Double agents again > Ok... the main issues that prevent fallen agents within archangel >service are >(1) hearts breaking >(2) Where did that essence come from >(3) Malakim sensing your broken vows. Also the ability of Superiors to sense attunements to Words and the like - -- only an unattuned Fallen could pass this test. But frankly, I don't think an Archangel would miss seeing that someone had Fallen, anyway. So you need to avoid your Superior. > What are the major obsticles to having Demons convert and yet remain >in Diabolical service? The heart issue, obviously, but I can conceive ways >that could be circumvented... what else? Free Lilim can get away with this, since they don't have demonic Hearts. > On an aside, There is of course the possibility that in order to >maintain an illusion or to make sure a missing heart was not spotted, that a >superior looking to put in seeds for a double agent would quite simple not >let said individual go bright or fall for as long as they remained in >service... This is *perfectly* plausible. In fact, I'd expect this sort of thing from certain AAs (David and Michael come immediately to mind). > Or even, a superior could design and entity in order to have it fall >/ redeem, in order to flush out the opposition, or perhaps with hidden >personality programming... They are so inept that they will actually cause >more problems from the other side than benefits, or the like. I actually wrote this one into the IPG -- they're called "ringers" there. There are several variants. > Just had a related idea. Suppose Kronos or Malphas shapes a demon >with the deep desire inbuilt in them to redeem, and sets them loose... And >gives them a trait or power, or knowledge that Archangels would literally >fight over... It would pretty much have to be knowledge, since special demonic abilities would be lost at redemption, anyway. And knowledge is easy to share. Nice evil thought, but it needs some tinkering to fit into canon.... > Another asside. Do celesitial entities have Fates and Destinies? Certainly in my campaign, and I think canon may also be picking up this idea. After all, the Symphony itself has a Fate and a Destiny, as do humans; it makes sense that any other self-aware entity does. (Note that animals apparently don't -- they don't really have free will, and they all end up with Jordi, as far as I know.) > And >can Kronos / Yves shape the ones of their servitors at creation? I wouldn't think so, though they could probably create a servitor and check them for the proper result, destroying them and starting over if they didn't get what they wanted. I can't see Yves doing it -- it's counter to free will -- but Kronos might easily do it. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:09:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "York H. Dobyns" Subject: Re: IN> Two NPCS for your perusal Elizabeth McCoy writes: >The In Nomine Line Editor (that's me) says: No characteristics >above 12. No Forces over 6. No skill-levels over 6. Anything >else, please check errata and then tell me about it if it's >not there, so I can put it there. Why? Among other things, this imposes a hard limit on experience expenditures. If somebody is running a weekly campaign, even a minimal 1 pt-per-session award makes possible an 18-Force PC within less than 2 years. (Of course, IN hasn't been *out* for quite 2 years yet, has it?) Given that most rolls involve multiple things adding together, with the potential of exceeding 12, and an autosuccess rule in place for handling this, why the strong opposition? The rule of "no skills over 6" produces the extremely unsightly kludge that animals can violate the skill-limit, in order to compensate for the rotten characteristics they have by virtue of their low Forces. I defy anyone who has ever opened a can of tuna in a cat-inhabited household to maintain with a straight face that the critters have Will and Per of 0. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 12:17:10 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Baal and Michael On Thu, 7 May 1998, Walter Milliken wrote: > >As a side note, I think Michael's true Word must be Conflict-the conflict > >that promotes change, growth, and improvement. It's the only reason I can > >think of that he would be one of the Archangels who "stirred everything > >up". When the War in Heaven began, God ordered him to emphasize the War > >aspect of the Word of Conflict. > > His Word *might* have changed. Or it may have meant "war against > chaos/entropy" -- Words *can* change meaning over time, as the Symphony > evolves. Well, I don't know. The implication in the APG is that he was responsible for maintaining chaos, not eliminating it. That's why I think he Was (and still is) Conflict, and he just emphasizes War (an aspect of Conflict) until the War is over. I hadn't even considered the idea that Baal was Archangel of Change originally. With that in mind, it's possible that Janus was one of his servitors back in the old days. Richard Gant ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:33:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Two NPCS for your perusal > Among other things, this imposes a hard limit on experience > expenditures. If somebody is running a weekly campaign, even a minimal 1 > pt-per-session award makes possible an 18-Force PC within less than 2 > years. (Of course, IN hasn't been *out* for quite 2 years yet, has it?) My players are going to run into this sooner or later. We'll hit 1 year in July, running biweekly, and between contributions and sessions, they're picking up Forces steadily. What we are hoping for is expanded rules or 2nd edition rules which talks about what happens when you pass the 18 Force limit. I assume something DOES happen, because upper bounds, frankly, suck. If no rules are forthcoming, I'll make something up, and use House Rules. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:31:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "York H. Dobyns" Subject: Re: IN> Lying (was Re: IN> Seraphim and the TRUTH. (help!) "Patrick O'Duffy" points out: > In a world without real physical distances or physical bodies, the Ofanim >resonance is also useless (although you could use the Area Knowledge bonus). >Down in Hell, meantime, only the Shedim loses their resonance power-ups. This is >one reason why (like they say in Heaven & Hell) there are more possibilties for >fun playing in Hell than Heaven... Considering how IN makes such a big deal about the corporeal world being an unnatural environment for celestials, how they don't belong there, their true celestial forms can only remain for a limited time, their unnatural actions cause disturbance, etc., etc., isn't it a bit odd for there to be Choirs and Bands whose fundamental way of relating to reality *only* works in this "foreign" environment? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 12:36:33 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Two NPCS for your perusal On Thu, 7 May 1998, York H. Dobyns wrote: > >The In Nomine Line Editor (that's me) says: No characteristics > >above 12. No Forces over 6. No skill-levels over 6. Anything > >else, please check errata and then tell me about it if it's > >not there, so I can put it there. > > Among other things, this imposes a hard limit on experience > expenditures. If somebody is running a weekly campaign, even a minimal 1 > pt-per-session award makes possible an 18-Force PC within less than 2 > years. (Of course, IN hasn't been *out* for quite 2 years yet, has it?) Well, I don't think this is canon, but here's how I handle it: Regular celestials have a maximum of 18 Forces, with no more than 6 of each "flavor" (Corporeal, Ethereal, Celestial). They are also limited to a maximum of level 6 in any skills or songs. Word-bound celestials have a maximum of 54 Forces, with no more than 18 of each "flavor". They are also "limited" to a maximum of level 18 in any skills or songs, and the level cannot be higher than the number of Forces they have in the appropriate category (i.e. 7 Celestial Forces means that the celestial cannot have tracking or Celestial Song of whatever higher than 7). Archangels and Demon Princes have a maximum of 90 Forces, with no more than 30 of each "flavor". They max their songs and skills out at 30, with the same restrictions as Word-bound celestials (see above) on how high their levels may go. Before you ask: no, I haven't bothered to give stats to any Archangels or Demon Princes. That's just my mechanic if it ever becomes necessary. Richard Gant ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:46:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: IN> In Nomine character maximums On Wed, 6 May 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > The In Nomine Line Editor (that's me) says: No characteristics > above 12. No Forces over 6. No skill-levels over 6. Anything > else, please check errata and then tell me about it if it's > not there, so I can put it there. In my opinion, that's too little above the PC starting level to cap things at. A PC could easily start with Forces of 4, and Forces of 5 is possible, though stretching it. Similarly, a PC could easily start with a skill of 6, and can manage a characteristic of 12. If non-superiors only go up to Force 6/char 12/skill 6, I think the difference between starting Earthbound angels and elite and experienced specialized agents of Archangels and Demon Princes is too small. While pushing ability levels higher than that could create obnoxiously minmaxed characters, a skill of 6 and a pairing characteristic of 12 is pretty obnoxiously minmaxed to begin with anyway. Not that it's a problem; if I were GMing, I'd make a house ruling that the levels are binding on beginning PCs, then to exceed the levels costs x2 experience, increasing to x3, x4, etc. as the levels get higher. Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 May 98 12:46 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Essence "flavors" > I >> have considered that using demonic Essence might be dissonant for >> angels, though (or at least frequent use). >> >My understanding was that it had to be connected to a Rite for it to be >dissonant, since it's a rather important rules point which should have >been specified otherwise. I was thinking here of taking demonic Essence from your demon "friends", which seems like it ought to be at least a little dubious.... But yes, only the Rite use is specifically dissonant. > I presume that you can perform activities which >would allow you to benefit from a Rite without actually drawing >Essence from the Rite, because otherwise (for example) Redeemed demons of >the War in service to the Sword or War would be in some difficulty about >killing an opponent. Yes. Presumably a Rite requires conscious intent. (There is actually some Rite canon which isn't yet in any books, but will probably get put somewhere appropriate. Boiled down, it amounts to the notion that a Rite is a way of calling a Superior's attention to get some Essence from them, long distance. SJ likened it to a telephone number.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:50:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Two NPCS for your perusal > Word-bound celestials have a maximum of 54 Forces, with no more than 18 of > each "flavor". They are also "limited" to a maximum of level 18 in any > skills or songs, and the level cannot be higher than the number of Forces > they have in the appropriate category (i.e. 7 Celestial Forces means that > the celestial cannot have tracking or Celestial Song of whatever higher > than 7). Actually, this may very well work. Now, dice becomes sort of a moot point, unless you move to a 3D6 with a check digit [a 6666 system]. It will only work for forces that are over 6. I dunno, it's something I have to ponder. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:55:20 -0700 From: alloni@ibsystems.com (Alloni Kramer) Subject: IN> More Questions. Sigh. How do you pronounce Yves? Can celestials change Words? (Not just the Word changing meaning, but actually saying, "I'm getting tired of being the Demon of That Gunk You Rub Out Of Your Eyes Every Morning. I want something more messy... like being the Demon of Bloody Eyeballs! Yeah!") If you can never change Words, then that would certainly create a whole lot of competition for those Words that can possibly be treated in a more metaphorical sense. (Eventually the Demon of Bloody Eyeballs is going to realize he got shafted, since there is no metaphorical meaning he can twist so as to put a new and nifty area under his control.) This is less a question of "Is it possible?" (since you're talking about the Council of Seraphim or Lucifer, depending), and more a question of "Is it ever done?" Do you create a disturbance if you are in a vessal, sitting on a park bench, and a kid on a bicycle rides by, trips on your outstretched legs, flips over, and breaks his neck? Do you create one if you are standing by the road, and a kid on a bicycle rides by, turns his head to look at you, accidentally rides into a sewer grate, flips over, and breaks his neck? Do you create one if you tell the kid to ride out into traffic and he does so? What if you do so by means of some sort of compulsion? I'm checking the limits here. I will have more later. - --The Mazing Looni, E.S.I.T. and co-savior _________________________________________________________________________ Alloni Kramer alloni@ibsystems.com "Was I sleep-yodeling again? Sorry to disturb you." --Gen. Sedgwick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:03:41 -0800 From: Armand Subject: Re: IN> Gorethiel, Demon of BFGs >Gorethiel has been active ever since. In addition to his obvious work in >collaboration with Nybbas (supplying props and special effects for 'Men in >Black'), he has been responsible for many innovative developments in >machine guns, bazookas, mortars, the 'Iraqi Supergun' and, most recently, >the 'Metal Storm' automatic weapon. I kept waiting for the addition of sapping, a technique brought around in the Dark Ages to "blow up" castles. A tunnel is dug under a castle wall, filled with pigs, and sealed. Give it a little time, and boom! I could see Gorethiel as a big guy in that field. Liked the rest though, Armand ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:04:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine character maximums > Not that it's a problem; if I were GMing, I'd make a house ruling that the > levels are binding on beginning PCs, then to exceed the levels costs x2 > experience, increasing to x3, x4, etc. as the levels get higher. Is it me, or did everyone else just have nasty Shadowrun flashbacks? All the sudden I remember trying to take Initiate Levels as a Raccoon Shaman. The first one is easy, the second one not-so easy, the third one a pain... Tis the same with all Shadowrun skills, which is cool in it's way. It made specialization easy, but generalization very difficult, and even then, it was hard to get really really good. This is the bell curve of learning skills and songs and stats, which absolutely does not exist in In Nomine what so ever. The method of handing out experience and getting better is terrible. Granted, I'm a CoC whore.... I like the Chaosium method the best, because it gives a very nice learning curve - difficult in the beginning, easier in the middle, difficult in the end, just like real skills. Shadowrun is just exponential, easy in the beginning, a pain as you get better and better. We don't have a bell curve, we have a linear scale with a cap, and a limited amount of places to really encourage growth. I mean, sure, you can dump it into skills, but WHY? when you can raise a stat and all your skills go up. Same with Songs. It's just more economical to raise your Forces, and therefore, players do so. But then, after playing for a long time in an extended campaign, you hit a cap. Something needs to take the place of the cap, or make the system more flexible, or extend it somewhat, but nothing exists yet. Granted, we all need those new rules RIGHT NOW, but they don't exist. Ergo, House Rules. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:04:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Drat! But thank you.... - ---Twila Oxley Price wrote: > > > Thanks to Pee Kitty and Elizabeth and everyone else who commented on > my poor waifs. Ain't these guys just the greatest? > > Twila (..who feels totally incompetent when it comes to > IN...) > > Nah, don't feel that way! Yer heart is in the right place (I hope! :) ), it's just that sometimes people goof...Remind me to tell you MY first experience at writing an In Nomine short story...Humbling experience, I tell you! Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:59:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Knop Subject: IN> Resonances and natural environments > Considering how IN makes such a big deal about the corporeal world being > an unnatural environment for celestials, how they don't belong there, > their true celestial forms can only remain for a limited time, their > unnatural actions cause disturbance, etc., etc., isn't it a bit odd for > there to be Choirs and Bands whose fundamental way of relating to > reality *only* works in this "foreign" environment? Perhaps, except that the IN choirs of celestials were created for the purpose fo doing things on Earth. One of the books states that there are other choirs who are more "celestial" in nature. An analogy might be drawn to a military special ops force, which is highly trained and given all sorts of equipment to get its job done behind enemy lines. Behind enemy lines is hardly the "natural" environment for those forces, and anything that they bungle is going to cause "disturbance" and bring a whole lot of trouble their way. However, all of their training and equipment is designed for exactly those circumstances. - -Rob ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 13:13:34 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> More Questions. Alloni asked: "How do you pronounce Yves?" The same as "Eve." At least, that's what my limited French would indicate, along with the memory of numerous announcers mentioning the French aquanaut and inventor, Jacques Yves Cousteau. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:18:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN>Demon Prince Audition On Wed, 6 May 1998, Kevin Walsh wrote: > > Some things are considered understood and therefore need not be said, > > such as the implied subject "you" in the statement "Go take a flying leap." > > > I don't think that the analogy is a good one. An imperative statement > without an object is frankly ridiculous. But thin ice can certainly > literally exist, and is not necessarily metaphorical. Okay, let me be more specific: "Stop nitpicking every little thing that is said or I will lodge an official complaint against you with the list moderator. I, and quite a few other people, find it highly annoying." > > Of course. It's a -metaphorical- flaming sword. > > > What do metaphorical flaming swords do, or do I really want to know? They cut off dangling participles. > But you shouldn't allow extraneous facts to interfere with your judgement > of the Truth. Are you suggesting that the truth is not objective? I'm suggesting you're twisting my words to suit your own purposes, and I'd like you to stop. Now. - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:59:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Baal and Michael - ---Walter Milliken wrote: > His Word *might* have changed. Or it may have meant "war against > chaos/entropy" -- Words *can* change meaning over time, as the Symphony > evolves. > > > ---Walter > Take, for instance, the best example of words evolving...The Demon of SPAM! :) Graveyard Greg - ---Mmmmm...."Spam".... _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 13:19:56 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine character maximums In our non-IN campaign with house rules, skills max out at 99% and attributes can never more than double. Adding skills is fine, but another way of continuing to advance is what I dubbed "meta-skills" -- skills that enhance existing skills. Examples: "Go Critical" -- roll after a success to make it into a critical success. Only applies to one particular skill you have already maxed in. "Overlap" -- Roll this and roll a skill you have maxed in, to succeed at a related skill you don't have. Examples: Overlap + Spanish = Italian. Overlap + Revolver = Rifle. "Flabbergast" -- Roll this and roll a skill you have maxed in PROVIDED the maxed skill is in some way a "performance art," to leave the audience flabbergasted -- observers must make a Will roll (for IN) to act in the next round. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 13:18:13 -0400 From: Jesse Subject: Re: IN> Two NPCS for your perusal >> Among other things, this imposes a hard limit on experience >> expenditures. If somebody is running a weekly campaign, even a minimal 1 >> pt-per-session award makes possible an 18-Force PC within less than 2 >> years. (Of course, IN hasn't been *out* for quite 2 years yet, has it?) > >My players are going to run into this sooner or later. We'll hit 1 year >in July, running biweekly, and between contributions and sessions, they're >picking up Forces steadily. > >What we are hoping for is expanded rules or 2nd edition rules which talks >about what happens when you pass the 18 Force limit. I assume something >DOES happen, because upper bounds, frankly, suck. If no rules are >forthcoming, I'll make something up, and use House Rules. OhmiGod! Em derivating from canon? No! How could it be? Given game mechanics using a gimmicky d666 system an upper limt does make sense. When forces go over 18 or attirbutes over 12 we run into a serious gameplay probelem. A demon with 18 forces succedes at just about everything. One with skills at 6 also succedes with a 7-12 check digit, baring intervention. Frankly, a more powerful charcter would be hard to imagine, let alone play. If you succede at everything you might as well throw away the dice and define intervention and success as the plot dictates. - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:09:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Huh...I did not know that...(was Re: IN> A Question) - ---Andrew Frades wrote: > > The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. > > All rights reserved. > > Its in the Majordomo thing. There are some prices to being on the list. > Andrew > > > Huh....guess I'd better be careful what I put up on this list, eh? I was going to post an idea that will be posted on my soon-to-be-developed webpage, but now? Oh, well...maybe it's for the best...My writing is very non-canon! ;) Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:29:29 EDT From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: IN> Gorethiel, Demon of BFGs In a message dated 5/7/98 9:11:26 AM, armand@spiretech.com writes: >>Gorethiel has been active ever since. In addition to his obvious work in >>collaboration with Nybbas (supplying props and special effects for 'Men >in >>Black'), he has been responsible for many innovative developments in >>machine guns, bazookas, mortars, the 'Iraqi Supergun' and, most recently, >>the 'Metal Storm' automatic weapon. > >I kept waiting for the addition of sapping, a technique brought around in >the Dark Ages to "blow up" castles. A tunnel is dug under a castle wall, >filled with pigs, and sealed. Give it a little time, and boom! I could >see Gorethiel as a big guy in that field. Pigs? Is this some meaning of pig I'm not familliar with? I've heard of sapping with kegs of gunpowder, or setting the tunnel supports on fire, but pigs? Mark(Terribly confused...) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:30:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> djinn and healing - ---Titus 3 11 wrote: > Despite the aquisacions of fellow listers such as Graveyard Greg, I am > still a member in good standing of my choir. The Malakim are well aware, > of how sweet and clean a talented demon can make Hell and its servants > appear, and you are defintly a talented demon sir, serving a mighty > Princess indeed. > And dn't worry about your fellows, dissonant or not; if the Game misses > them, God will not; nor will his Virtues > Enosh > Malakite of Creation > In service to Michael > ( I swear) > > > I resemble that remark, Enosh... :) Speaking of Falling, when if Fall of the Malakim going to be out? Unless it is already out (crosses his fingers) Graveyard Greg - --who will keep a close eye on a certain Malakite...Because wasn't he in Service to Dominic beforehand? Hmmmm _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:24:34 +0100 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Gorethiel, Demon of BFGs At 04:31 07/05/98 +0100, you wrote: > >--------- >Gorethiel, the Demon of Big F**king Guns. > Excellent! Thanks. (I just know people would all split up, each go after someone different and end up spending hours trying to get into the Bodleian, just because it was there, even if they didn't need to :) ). jo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:32:04 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine character maximums On Thu, 7 May 1998, Emily Dresner wrote: > We don't have a bell curve, we have a linear scale with a cap, and a > limited amount of places to really encourage growth. I mean, sure, you > can dump it into skills, but WHY? when you can raise a stat and all your > skills go up. Same with Songs. It's just more economical to raise your > Forces, and therefore, players do so. But then, after playing for a long > time in an extended campaign, you hit a cap. Something needs to take the > place of the cap, or make the system more flexible, or extend it > somewhat, but nothing exists yet. Granted, we all need those > new rules RIGHT NOW, but they don't exist. Ergo, House Rules. Emcouraging growth in other areas is pretty simple - change the costs. If it costs twice as much as now to get a new Force, I think most players would buy Songs or Skills instead. :) Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! "I kick arse for the Lord!" - Father McGruder ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:35:58 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> More Questions. On Thu, 7 May 1998, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Alloni asked: "How do you pronounce Yves?" > > The same as "Eve." Well, almost. The "i" sound is supposed to be short. Soemthing like "Iv", I think. (-Finally- getting some use for those three years of French!:) Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! "I kick arse for the Lord!" - Father McGruder ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 13:35:10 -0400 From: Jesse Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine character maximums >This is the bell curve of learning skills and songs and stats, which >absolutely does not exist in In Nomine what so ever. The method of >handing out experience and getting better is terrible. Granted, I'm a CoC >whore.... I like the Chaosium method the best, because it gives a very >nice learning curve - difficult in the beginning, easier in the middle, >difficult in the end, just like real skills. Shadowrun is just >exponential, easy in the beginning, a pain as you get better and better. > >We don't have a bell curve, we have a linear scale with a cap, and a >limited amount of places to really encourage growth. I mean, sure, you >can dump it into skills, but WHY? when you can raise a stat and all your >skills go up. Same with Songs. It's just more economical to raise your >Forces, and therefore, players do so. But then, after playing for a long >time in an extended campaign, you hit a cap. Something needs to take the >place of the cap, or make the system more flexible, or extend it >somewhat, but nothing exists yet. Granted, we all need those >new rules RIGHT NOW, but they don't exist. Ergo, House Rules. Do you want a bell curve? These are spirits, not people we are talking about. I could see spirits not having a bellcurve at all. Besides, the transformation to Archangel is a state change. A serivator might simply be unable to be bigger than 18 forces. - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:42:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Two NPCS for your perusal > >What we are hoping for is expanded rules or 2nd edition rules which talks > >about what happens when you pass the 18 Force limit. I assume something > >DOES happen, because upper bounds, frankly, suck. If no rules are > >forthcoming, I'll make something up, and use House Rules. > > OhmiGod! Em derivating from canon? No! How could it be? What's that smell? Sarcasm? }:::} <--- evil Bal smiley. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:42:13 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> More Questions. On Thu, 7 May 1998, Alloni Kramer wrote: > Do you create a disturbance if you are in a vessal, sitting on a park > bench, and a kid on a bicycle rides by, trips on your outstretched legs, > flips over, and breaks his neck? > > Do you create one if you are standing by the road, and a kid on a bicycle > rides by, turns his head to look at you, accidentally rides into a sewer > grate, flips over, and breaks his neck? > > Do you create one if you tell the kid to ride out into traffic and he does so? > > What if you do so by means of some sort of compulsion? I've thought about this too. Where do you all draw the line? I'm finding it very difficult to decide exactly what is intervention and what isn't. Maybe disturbance should be lower if the intervention is less direct? Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! "I kick arse for the Lord!" - Father McGruder ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 13:42:15 -0400 From: Robb Kidd Subject: Re: IN> Two NPCS for your perusal Emily Dresner wrote: > What we are hoping for is expanded rules or 2nd edition rules which talks > about what happens when you pass the 18 Force limit. I assume something > DOES happen, because upper bounds, frankly, suck. If no rules are > forthcoming, I'll make something up, and use House Rules. I rather liked the way that FASA handled skills progression in Shadowrun. Purchasing the next highest point (level) in a skill cost as many karma (character points) as the skill's current level multiplied by 2. The better you got, the harder it was to advance, but you -could-. [Current level * 2] was for general skills like Firearms or Psychology. Concentrations, like Pistols or Child Psychology, would cost [current level * 1.5] karma (character points) to advance. Specializations, like .44 Magnum or Adolescent Autism, would cost [current level]. It encourages specialization which in my limited gaming experience sometimes helps character development by fostering trademark skills, quirks and expertise. Could easily be implemented in IN. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:48:51 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN>Demon Prince Audition On Thu, 7 May 1998, Casca wrote: > On Wed, 6 May 1998, Kevin Walsh wrote: > > > > Some things are considered understood and therefore need not be said, > > > such as the implied subject "you" in the statement "Go take a flying leap." > > > > > I don't think that the analogy is a good one. An imperative statement > > without an object is frankly ridiculous. Wrong-o, buddy-buddy. "Go away!" has no object. :) Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! "I kick arse for the Lord!" - Father McGruder ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:51:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- In the hands of Angels... - ---David Streeter wrote: > 6> Hell, it's just like southpark! > > SurturZ **perk** South Park? Hmmmmm.....a campaign set in the South Park area? Cartman could be a calabite in service to Gluttony...and it WOULD explain how Kenny comes back everytime...Must have a LOT of Body Bags saved up... Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:58:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine character maximums > Do you want a bell curve? These are spirits, not people we are talking > about. I could see spirits not having a bellcurve at all. Besides, > the transformation to Archangel is a state change. A serivator > might simply be unable to be bigger than 18 forces. Well, no. It was just an example of a system which worked well, in my vast and utterly unhumble opinion. But I feel like we're messing with energy states, and I don't think players really want to BE electrons. Well, none of them except the Servitors of Lightning, of course. :) - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:57:49 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine FTP site At 12:30 AM -0700 5/1/98, David Streeter wrote: >The In Nomine FTP site seems to only have the digests in it, unlike the >INWO FTP site which has much artwork. There is much artwork on the IN WWW site -- I've got links to that in the INC Art, as well as amature attempts. >Would there be a chance of getting those B&W image files of the In >Nomine art (from the "Dan Smith Auction" days) into the site? I don't know. I suspect that they are copyrighted, which means that permission would have to be gotten from Smif and/or SJ Games folk. I'll try to remember to ask around. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:34:52 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Drawing Canon At 9:43 PM -0400 5/6/98, ixDragons wrote: >Uh.... hmmm.... what about art? >I have something that I am working on... >It isn't finished, but I'll email it to you and you tell me if I have talent >deal? I'm not the art director. Go to the www.sjgames.com site, go to the general link, and start looking for the *Artist's* Guidelines. Follow those slavishly and to the letter. (I don't get to pick IN artists, though I can sometimes make suggestions. You're already on the net, so it would be better for you to just go there directly, yourself.) If you have a URL with some of your stuff, I'll go look, but I'm really only a text-person. >P.S. >I am wearing anti Geas undies : If you're wearing anti-Geas undies, then I'm not sure I should be helping you for *free*... O;> And, as has been noted, don't send attachments to the list. It's not nice. (And whatever it was, I didn't see it anyway, the first time around. Eudora nicely clipped it to nothing but a single funky character.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:09:51 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> The Final Trumpet At 12:08 AM -0500 5/2/98, David C. Shadle wrote: > >> "[...] The Final Trumpet has expanded writeups on Michael, Baal, >> Kobal and Malphas; two new Superiors -- Khalid, Archangel of >> Faith, and Magog, Demon Prince of Cruelty; [...]" > >Any idea when its going to be coming out? After FotM comes out. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #762 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.