From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu May 7 14:25:17 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA32446 for ; Thu, 7 May 1998 14:25:16 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id OAA28009 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 7 May 1998 14:27:18 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:27:18 -0500 Message-Id: <199805071927.OAA28009@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #763 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, May 7 1998 Volume 01 : Number 763 In this digest: Re: IN> Yves Re: IN> The Demon of Gun Control IN> Shedim & Undead (Re: Identifying ensouled beings) Re: IN> Angels and Dicey Words Re: IN> Double agents again IN> Michael's Dissonance Conditions (Re: Angels and Dicey Words) IN> Fluff: Good Views (Re: Demon Prince Audition) IN> Impudite Resonance (Re: Essence "flavors") Re: IN> Wandering Cherubim Off Topic Off the List, Please (Re: IN>Demon Prince Audition) Re: IN> In the hands of Angels... Re: IN> Various Re: IN> One can never have too much nit-picking...(was Re: Demon Prince Audition) Re: IN> Writing Canon Re: IN> Gorethiel, Demon of BFGs Re: IN> A Question Re: IN> Impudite Resonance (Re: Essence "flavors") Re: IN> In the hands of Angels... IN> The Original Seven IN> Writing Canon Re: IN> One can never have too much nit-picking...(was Re: Demon Prince Audition) Re: IN> Michael's Dissonance Conditions (Re: Angels and Dicey Words) Re: IN> Lying (was Re: IN> Seraphim and the TRUTH. (help!) Re: IN> Gorethiel, Demon of BFGs Re: IN> More Questions. Re: IN> Two NPCS for your perusal Re: IN> Two NPCS for your perusal Re: IN> Michael's Dissonance Conditions (Re: Angels and Dicey Words) Re: IN> Gorethiel, Demon of BFGs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:19:57 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Yves At 1:24 AM +0100 5/4/98, Julian Breen wrote: >Neel Krishnaswami writes >>>From: Titus 3 11 >>> >>>BVarious cut people... >>>1)Yves isn't really a "kill-em and let their next incarnation sort 'em >>>out" kinda guy. I fetus with a dark Fate and a meager Destiny would find >>>himself well-protected and guided [...] >>>I just get the impression from his expanded write-up that he wouldn't do >>>such a thing to a fetus, even if he was unopposed by Kronos and Co. >> >>I got the exact opposite impression, actually. He's out to bring the >>entire universe to its absolute best possible Destiny, and would do >>quite a lot to see that it happens. >> >Hmmm. But if Yves is not averse to abortion, why hasn't he done so in >the cases of people such as Charles Manson, Pol Pot, Stalin, etc.? In our campaign, it's because the Servitors of Destiny have a very "hands off" policy. For the most part, they are instructed not to meddle *unless* there are bad celestial influences in someone's life. Otherwise, they can hint, teach-by-example, or maybe have a smile at the right time -- but they have to let human free will do all the rest. So if someone does not choose to have an abortion, even if they're carrying the honest-to-Dominic Fated Antichrist, no good Servitor of Destiny will push the mother to do so. Of course, in our campaign, there's an implication that if you push someone to their Fate *or Destiny* without them making the choices freely -- the Symphony will backlash. (This is my PC's backstory, actually - she was Geased to help a Habbalite of Fate and a Shedite drive a young girl to her Fate. It seemed to work. Except that the Lilim (PC) ran off and got corrupted by angels and blabbed the very nasty evil scam to those angels, and the girl was rescued and the Habbalite was last seen going over a cliff in her car. Coinidence? Or the Symphony giving the girl a chance to choose *for herself*?) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:11:35 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The Demon of Gun Control At 1:43 PM +0100 5/2/98, Julian Breen wrote: >In message , Elizabeth McCoy writes >>At 4:58 PM -0700 5/1/98, Graveyard Greg wrote: >> >>>Doesn't Gustav's Dictionary of Angels, [...] >>p. 21 of aforementioned Dictionary. "Angel of Abortion [Kasdaye]" >> >>And that's it. >> >Not quite. You neglected to mention that he is Fallen. I forgot to look up his name... *blush* Fortunately, someone else went and did that. *whew* - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:13:31 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Shedim & Undead (Re: Identifying ensouled beings) At 1:53 PM -0400 5/5/98, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: >>From: Kevin Walsh >>On Fri, May 01, 1998 at 02:59:11PM -0400, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: >>> Though this raises an interesting question...can Shedim possess the >>> undead in canon? >> >>They're humans, ne? > >With wacky things done to their souls, though. Shedim of Death could certainly do it, I'd rule. I would probably let normal Shedim do it too, myself-as-GM, since they *are* still human, do still not-disturb the Symphony, etc. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:31:58 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Angels and Dicey Words At 11:30 AM -0400 5/4/98, Highway Star wrote: >According to Elizabeth McCoy: >> "[...] The Final Trumpet has expanded writeups on Michael, Baal, >> Kobal and Malphas; two new Superiors -- Khalid, Archangel of >> Faith, and Magog, Demon Prince of Cruelty; [...]" > >So it's going to have two Archangel write-ups and 4 Demon >Princes? Yup. >Will any of the other supplements even this out? I'm just >curious as to why when other supplements came out with it even >they decided to favor the DPs this time.:) Well, eventually, there will be an expanded writeup on all the main-book Superiors. Which means, yes, somewhere there will be 1 main-book Prince and three Archangels. (Or two -- I think that with Lilith, the mainbook Princes have one extra?) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:58:55 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Double agents again At 10:17 AM -0500 5/5/98, ehp wrote: > What are the major obsticles to having Demons convert and yet remain >in Diabolical service? The heart issue, obviously, but I can conceive ways >that could be circumvented... what else? On earth, anyone can fake being either side -- except that angels generally don't know how to speak demonic, and even those who do cannot use the language of lies to actually lie. (Unless they want dissonance.) In celestial form, canonly, you can't fake your nature. (Well, okay, so my fiction has an Outcast Elohite with a paint-job -- he owes Lilith bigtime for that relic-tattoo, though, and the changes are quite minimal.) If your old buddies catch up to you and figure out who you are, *they* might know that your Heart shattered. On the other hand, if nobody has bothered to mention that you got away, you can fake being a demon to your heart's content. Until someone catches you. And yes, you can have a demon working for you -- Lilim, unfairly, often get stuck with this sort of thing, since they can self-Geas and are therefore about 500 times more trustworthy than even the more Selfless-Discord-riddled member of another Band. Of course, if you don't keep her happy with lots of cuddling and hugs and rolls in the hay with warm angels, she gets annoyed and starts looking for the loopholes in her Geas. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:09:15 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Michael's Dissonance Conditions (Re: Angels and Dicey Words) At 6:31 PM +0100 5/5/98, Kevin Walsh wrote: >Of course, I also fail to see why Michael's dissonance is against >retreating. It's a very Eurocentric view of War, IMO. Throughout history, >the idea of fighting to the death rather than retreating has been an >aberration, entirely alien to most military traditions. The whole idea of >face-to-face combat with genuinely lethal weapons, no quarter asked or >given is, at least according to John Keegan's History of Warfare, a >European innovation, and very frightening to non-Europeans. I'm not entirely sure if it's *that* recent -- I believe I've read Sagas and such works where the Hero stood until cut down, or until he cut down all the enemy. (Wow, my English Major background is good for something after all!) There are some IN notations (some in your future, my past) where Michael is refered to as the "deposer of tyrants" -- he's the War where the evil are cast down, and he most loves it when the evil tyrant is cast down by one (or a small group of) hero(s). After all, he did it to Lucifer... Also, it's not dissonant to retreat if there are orders -- "Harry them, men. Shoot, take out a few, then run if you get organized resistance." It's dissonant to take a stand and then back down. If you are set to hold the pass, then by God you will *hold the pass*. If you are the defender of Light, then by God you will dropkick that Balseraph out of Heaven. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:20:48 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Fluff: Good Views (Re: Demon Prince Audition) At 9:08 PM +0100 5/5/98, Jo Hart wrote: >At 14:36 05/05/98 -0400, you wrote: >>On Tue, 5 May 1998, Hart, Joanna wrote: >> >> >>You're walking on thin ice, Jo...*wields flaming sword menacingly* >> >>Beth likes Malakim with Good Views. I like Ivanova for the same reasons. > >Maybe Malakim with Good Views can't act either ;-) [Then again, maybe they >don't need to!] Since I don't *watch* B-5 (yes, I know I should, you don't have to email and tell me, all my friends and enemies already have), I can't say whether whatshername can act or not. But Malakim with Good Views do not need to act, certainly not. It is part of their endearing charm, that they are honorable and earnest, open and without guile. And have the cutest little backsides in tight leather, which are just so pattable. And then they look so startled when you do exactly that. - --Beth, Archangel of Archives http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Angels/Arcangel.Beth.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:30:32 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Impudite Resonance (Re: Essence "flavors") At 8:30 AM -0400 5/6/98, Nana Yaw Ofori wrote: >At 2:49 PM -0400 5/5/98, Walter Milliken wrote: > Which brings up another question: If a person is Symphonically >Aware, and an Impudite charms and sucks Essence from him, and he's not one >of the four Choirs who get an instantaneous perception roll, when does the >victim find out? Probably the next time he goes to look at his Essence, or when the Charm-resonance wears off. The GM could, alternatively, give him a roll to tell his Essence is gone, but he won't *know* who did it, and he won't get a chance to use *his* resonance (if he has one) on the little Taker. Of course, until the Charm wears off, the Essence-loser will probably not mind too much? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:38:25 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Wandering Cherubim At 4:26 PM +0000 5/6/98, The blue eyes, the leather, some guys just like leather wrote: >- Wandering Cherubim: If you only wanted to attune to an object/person for a >short while, until you were convinced that whatever crisis that would befall >them has past ("My work here is done, now I must be away"), could you break >the attunement without gaining dissonance? Or, under the right >circumstances, would you get modifiers to your roll to break the attunement >that would significantly reduce the chance of gaining dissonance (e.g >finding another cherub to take over where you left off, your Superior saying >"Your work here is done", etc)? As it stands, cherubim are somewhat limited >as regards "Highway to Heaven" style antics, unless someone has gotten >around this creatively... If your Superior tells you to break the attunement, then your Superior will probably cure any dissonance you get trying. (You can try right then and there, in front of your boss -- which may well count for auto-success because rolling for it would be silly.) The other way, useful for Trade Express, is to simply blow a lot of Essence on the roll to break the attunement. The Seneschal at the Tether (Trade Express with Cherubic Insurance only delivers to angelic Tethers) replenishes you for the Essence -- he agreed to that when he signed for the package -- and you go your merry way. Or the GM could declare that the Superior will give a Cherub a "limited duration" attunement -- the Superior says, "Go there, help this person for a week/month/century, and then I'll give you your next assignment." At 4:46 PM +0100 5/6/98, Kevin Walsh wrote: >I'm afraid not, which is a bit of a bummer. Also, Cherubim of Judgement >need to do this sort of thing too. I would figure, personally, that a Cherub of Judgment could de-tune from a subject of investigation just as easily as they could hurt one or let one be hurt, which their Choir Attunement already allows. There's a reason why some people call the CoJ "halfway to Djinn"... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:31:37 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Off Topic Off the List, Please (Re: IN>Demon Prince Audition) At 3:03 PM +0100 5/6/98, Kevin Walsh wrote: >On Wed, May 06, 1998 at 01:52:55PM +0200, Anders Gabrielsson wrote: >> Depending on the grammatical theory you adhere to, an imperative can have >> an elliptic [...] >> >Maybe I'm being stupid but I can't imagine how that works. Could you >enlighten me? Perhaps off the list, though? Unless it can be tied back to the Seraph thing? - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:28:23 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> In the hands of Angels... At 10:21 PM +0900 5/6/98, Simon Hailes wrote: >At 11:30 AM 6/05/98 -0700, you wrote: >>I'm wondering, fo those of you that prefer the inferbnal side of >>things, why? Mind you, this isn't a judgement thing...I'm seriously >>interested in your answers. >> >>Badger >> >> I'll field that one because I have spoken of tbis before, to some the >concept of playing demons is well, you know, too sick. We grow up hating >the bad guys and loving the good guys, did any of us on list like Skeletor >when we were five and watching He-Man, or Gargamel, Azrael! Azrael! Catch those little blue pests, kitty! I always felt sorry for the cat, myself. And Brainy. But then, the Smurfs were pretty well a poster-example of the marginalization of females, the exaltation of the "wise old patriarch," and the trivilaization of intelligence among the rank and file. Ahem. I like to *write* demons, and play Renegades or angels. I think I like writing demons because there are more opportunities for conflict -- Hell's Politics are more cut-throat (in my fiction) than Heaven's, and then there's interactions between one's fellow Servitors, one's Prince, etc. And only the demons get those. Doing a Renegade demon is fun because it starts your character out with a nice fat plot-hook -- the secret that she's Renegade and can't afford to be caught. (The Game is not nice, no, no. Go read "Hunt" sometime and fill in the details...) Doing angels can be cathartic (Why, yes, I *do* love Jeca, my Malakite of Fire. SMITE!) or nice and angsty, if one gets involved in things like questioning of faith, or trying to explain it, or being attracted to something that is "wrong" for some reason. (A cute, maybe-redeemable-maybe-not demon, say?) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:54:00 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Various At 12:17 PM -0400 5/6/98, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: >>From: Kevin Walsh >>On Tue, May 05, 1998 at 04:48:10PM -0400, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: >>> Kevin Walsh wrote: >>Actually, intentions don't have to be announced verbally. The expanded >>rules on the Seraphic resonance state clearly that they can resonate on >>actions directed toward them. So if somebody makes a feint (directed at >>the Seraph), and they're resonating on that person, they should pick it >>up. On a check digit of 4, they should pick up what the other person >>actually intends to do. If the GM wants to keep the ability for a Seraph to distinguish between someone shaking their head "no," when the truth is "yes," but cut down on the feint trickery, the GM can always rule that the check digit is reduced by some number -- you're not *hearing* something, you're visually spotting it... That reduces the chance of a CD 4. The other way to deal with that... When I was fencing (foil, the most abstract of the techniques), some "feints" were only feints if the person reacted to them -- if they ignored it, you just went on and skewered them. A Seraph can't spot *those*, except that the person is perhaps anticipating that this attack won't work... >>One would also assume that Seraphim serving the military archangels get >>taught how to do this, and how to react quickly to it, as a matter of >>course. > >Of course this is true. Maybe a Tactics roll, with the check digit >being the bonus to dodge? That seems about the right level from a >consistency standpoint, though it really hoses Ofanim in spotlight >terms. It makes their ability to not be where you were hitting (their >Dodge bonus) a lot less special if Seraphim can do it too. Limit the amount of Dodge bonus you give the Seraphim, perhaps? If they only get a +1 or +2, no matter how high their CD in combat, then Ofanim will be better 4 or 5 times out of 6. (Or something like that. Math is *not* my strong point.) Also, for two rolls (one resonance roll, which has to succeed with a 4 or better, and then a Tactics roll for each feint...), that's more likely to fail... (Also more complicated. Ick.) The other thing is that the Ofanim can apply it all over the place, while the Seraph can only do it to one person. And if the roll doesn't succeed with a 4 or better, he's stuck with it for several minutes. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:43:46 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> One can never have too much nit-picking...(was Re: Demon Prince Audition) At 9:04 AM -0700 5/6/98, Graveyard Greg wrote: >---Jesse wrote: >>>> You're walking on thin ice, Jo... >>>Shouldn't you specify that it's metaphorical thin ice? Of course, >>>Michael does go around calling Dominic a hyena. >> >>Hasn't this Nit-picking thing gone far enough? > >No one has quite mapped the limits of nit-picking. I believe that is >why Beth is growing in power...The Demon Princess must be STOPPED! She >threatens the entire Symphony with her nit-picking! > >Hmmmm....CAN you nit-pick the Symphony? Ooooooooh...scary thought! Of course you can. You can point out all the inconsistancies, and all the fuzzy places, and gripe about the duck-billed platypus. I mean, that creature is just *wrong*. For that matter, I'd like to have a few words with God (or Yves) about this female menses thing. As for the rest of my Balseraph's behavior, so long as he's good and has content in the rest of his messages, he's free to take his chances with the Malakim as he likes. (This is "Servitor Evolution In Action.") If he's *only* Nitpicking, it looks too much like bootlicking, and he's wasting the Essence the Rite gets him, and waste is bad. However, you don't want me stopped. I'm the only one standing between you and... well, chaos. I mean, would you want Janus Line Editing the universe? - --Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Prince.Beth.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:51:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Writing Canon - ---Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > As for who makes the decisions... Me, Scott, and Steve Jackson, > primarily. Suck up to us all. Well, be polite, at least. All > the groveling in the world won't help if you just don't have the > IN feel. Though I'll appreciate the footrubs. > > And the Geas/6's don't hurt. What kind of Geases (is that the plural?) are being offered today? And might I offer you a pleasing beverage, Ms. McCoy, Ma'am? :) Seriously, though...thanks for the advice. I didn't even have to ask! Woo hoo! Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 14:06:48 -0400 From: Jesse Subject: Re: IN> Gorethiel, Demon of BFGs >>I kept waiting for the addition of sapping, a technique brought around in >>the Dark Ages to "blow up" castles. A tunnel is dug under a castle wall, >>filled with pigs, and sealed. Give it a little time, and boom! I could >>see Gorethiel as a big guy in that field. > >Pigs? Is this some meaning of pig I'm not familliar with? I've heard of >sapping with kegs of gunpowder, or setting the tunnel supports on fire, but >pigs? Yup. Great big baggy balls of mildly explosive methane gass. Pigs, weapons of war. - -Jesse ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:19:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> A Question - ---Jesse wrote: > I should note I have only the most basic idea of copyright laws. > I can tell I never signed away my rights to my postings yet SJG claims > a copyright on them. > > What gives? > > -Jesse > Copyright laws confuse me too, Jesse...don't feel like yer alone! :) Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 19:17:13 +0100 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Impudite Resonance (Re: Essence "flavors") At 12:30 07/05/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Of course, until the Charm wears off, the Essence-loser will probably >not mind too much? > > Mind?? They should be grateful for the attention! ;) jo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:26:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> In the hands of Angels... > Doing angels can be cathartic (Why, yes, I *do* love Jeca, my > Malakite of Fire. SMITE!) or nice and angsty, if one gets involved > in things like questioning of faith, or trying to explain it, or > being attracted to something that is "wrong" for some reason. (A > cute, maybe-redeemable-maybe-not demon, say?) > I'll have you know that a certain just redeemed demon has to write 'I AM AN ANGEL' on his hand, or he forgets. :) Angst is fun. In Nomine is at it's best when things are questionable and gray and sort of vague. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:32:28 -0500 From: rbeall@fdldotnet.com (Grim88) Subject: IN> The Original Seven With all this talk of Baal being the 'one man out' amoung the original seven for not being an Archangel, at least, not yet stated as one, there is another. Six of the original seven have had pretty negative things happen to them. Michael was Tried by Dominic. Uriel had his Crusade and was Tried by Dominic Gabriel has gone insane, left Heaven, and was Tried by Dominic (senseing a trend here?) Eli left Heaven, wiping much of his memories. Dominic would love to get his hands on him... Lucifer rebelled. Baal Fell with Lucifer, and it was one of his servitors who corrupted the Eden Experiment. That leaves David. The worst thing that happened to him has been Magog defecting a large number of his followers. I just keep getting this feeling something bad is gonna happen to hi. Very, very soon... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 20:15:58 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Writing Canon >>>Well I guess that is the question, how do I, or indeed anyone else, get to do what these individuals did, write Canon!!!!!! I slaver at the thought of doing so (not really but you get the idea) who makes the final decisions, who sets the standards, just what exactly is Steve Jackson asking for at the moment?<<< You can find SJG's general and In Nomine-specific writer's guidelines on the web (I don't know the URL offhand, but anyone who wants to be a writer should be smart enough to be able to find it on his own). This list is potentially a good place to show off your writing skills -- I know of several people who have been invited to contribute something for official publication based on the strength of their writing and grasp of the In Nomine universe that's been displayed here. Bear in mind, good writing includes good *form* as well as content. Lots of people have really cool ideas and post them here. Remember that: LOTS of people have really cool ideas. It's easy to find people full of ideas and enthusiasm and a burning desire to write for publication. People who have good, consistent technical skills, a firm grasp of the English language, and a willingness to actually use a !%@#&$! spellchecker before sending in something intended for publication, aren't so easy to find. (Can you tell this is a pet peeve?) I speak from experience. I handled the Relics Contest for the Liber Reliquarum, and while I got scads of good, interesting submissions, I was amazed at how many people sent me something full of spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors, along with an earnest letter informing me how much they'd love to write for Steve Jackson Games. Hey, posting to a mailing list is one thing (if you look hard enough, you might catch ME making a spelling or grammar mistake now and then -- and if you do, bite me), but presumably, something you're submitting for publication would be spellchecked, proofread, and made as perfect as your command of English allows, neh? Just my 20 won... - -David (I do not speak for Steve Jackson Games, I am only a freelance writer/editor, all of the above is my personal opinion, yadda yadda yada) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:33:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> One can never have too much nit-picking...(was Re: Demon Prince Audition) - ---Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > However, you don't want me stopped. I'm the only one standing > between you and... well, chaos. I mean, would you want Janus > Line Editing the universe? > I dunno, Princess Beth...It could make more sense if he did! ;) Maybe we could have the age old question "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?" finally answered! Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:35:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "York H. Dobyns" Subject: Re: IN> Michael's Dissonance Conditions (Re: Angels and Dicey Words) Elizabeth McCoy writes: >Also, it's not dissonant to retreat if there are orders -- "Harry >them, men. Shoot, take out a few, then run if you get organized >resistance." It's dissonant to take a stand and then back down. If >you are set to hold the pass, then by God you will *hold the pass*. >If you are the defender of Light, then by God you will dropkick that >Balseraph out of Heaven. Um, wasn't the guy he *kicked out* the defender of Light, or at least the holder of that Word? While the above is a nice clarification of intent, there's a recursive problem. Maybe it's been solved by the fact that the Supreme Military Commander is not Michael, but somebody with different dissonance conditions. In an all-Michaelite military unit, how can the *commander* ever order a fighting retreat as described above? Orders are fine, but *somebody* has to get stuck with issuing them -- and from the description, it is dissonant for a Michaelite commander to order a retreat, unless he plans to stand as rearguard himself. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 19:45:44 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Lying (was Re: IN> Seraphim and the TRUTH. (help!) On Thu, May 07, 1998 at 12:31:06PM -0400, York H. Dobyns wrote: > Considering how IN makes such a big deal about the corporeal world being > an unnatural environment for celestials, how they don't belong there, > their true celestial forms can only remain for a limited time, their > unnatural actions cause disturbance, etc., etc., isn't it a bit odd for > there to be Choirs and Bands whose fundamental way of relating to > reality *only* works in this "foreign" environment? I suppose it depends on how you look at it. Seraphim are closest to God of the denizens of the lower Heavens, and they have a connection to the Truth. But since Heaven is a place of Truth, it isn't terribly useful to them in Heaven (though it's probably an amazing sensation). However, they get to bring that part of Heaven down with them wherever they go. The usefulness of the Seraph resonance is in inverse proportion to how nice it feels to use it, and how natural it is. It's because the resonance is so alien to Earth that it's more useful there. The same goes for Ofanim. Someone else can explain Kyriotates, because I don't feel up to it. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "In the period of dictatorship, surrounded on all sides by enemies, we sometimes manifested unnecessary leniency and unnecessary softheartedness." N.V. Krylenko. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:44:16 -0400 From: eswhanu@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> Gorethiel, Demon of BFGs OK, pigs generate a *lot* of methane. Medievel engineers would dig tunnels, slaughter a bunch of pigs, and then coat them with oil and light them on fire. They would close up the tunnels, and eventually, the methane in the pig's digestive tract would ignite. It is quite real (as in historically accurate), and I actually saw someone do it in a Live Action Vampire game (the character was an walking anachorism...) Brian Ward On Thu, 7 May 1998 13:29:29 EDT MarkDEddy writes: > >In a message dated 5/7/98 9:11:26 AM, armand@spiretech.com writes: > >>>Gorethiel has been active ever since. In addition to his obvious >work in >>>collaboration with Nybbas (supplying props and special effects for >'Men >>in >>>Black'), he has been responsible for many innovative developments in >>>machine guns, bazookas, mortars, the 'Iraqi Supergun' and, most >recently, >>>the 'Metal Storm' automatic weapon. >> >>I kept waiting for the addition of sapping, a technique brought >around in >>the Dark Ages to "blow up" castles. A tunnel is dug under a castle >wall, >>filled with pigs, and sealed. Give it a little time, and boom! I >could >>see Gorethiel as a big guy in that field. > >Pigs? Is this some meaning of pig I'm not familliar with? I've heard >of >sapping with kegs of gunpowder, or setting the tunnel supports on >fire, but >pigs? > > Mark(Terribly confused...) > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:52:52 +0100 (BST) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: IN> More Questions. On Thu, 7 May 1998, Alloni Kramer wrote: > How do you pronounce Yves? The vowel sound is shorter than the English 'evening', but longer than English 'is'. It will also be a little shorter following a consonant than otherwise, depending on the speaker. > Can celestials change Words? I have the impression it is not usually done, since losing a word is incredibly traumatic. I can't quote references off-hand, though. I can't think of any examples anywhere except Celestials who Fall or Redeem. > Do you create a disturbance... My rule of thumb is that a disturbance is created if (and only if) the actions of the Celestial cause the disruptive event without the intervention of a free-willed Corporeal being. So there is no disturbance from genuine accidents, unless the negligence of the Celestial vastly outweighs the negligence of the human involved. > Do you create one if you tell the kid to ride out into traffic and he does so? No. His choice, no matter how young or stupid he is. > What if you do so by means of some sort of compulsion? Yes, if the compulsion literally removes the kid's free will. I'm not sure about Shedim, but Song of Possession here will (IMC) cause a disturbance. A Balseraph saying 'That's not a 5 ton truck, its an optical illusion. You can cross safely' won't. To use this rule, you need to decide whether animals have free will, so that you know whether throwing an angry tiger at someone is like shooting a gun at them, or like handing the gun to the victim of a mugging. Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 May 98 14:52 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Two NPCS for your perusal Interesting characters... a few comments no one else seems to have made: >The event that tipped him towards becoming Bright was two Geasa ago, >when he was loaned to Kobal for an elaborate joke, which involved >making a certain Saint believe in vampires. ... > Jereth was in Trauma for a long while, and his >"companions" blamed him for the fiasco. Kobal decided that a fitting >punishment would be to give Jereth a Need. For blood. This is the kind of treatment of Free Lilim that can get Lilith annoyed, though it would depend on exactly how much she actually knew about the circumstances. Those "companions" better not want anything from Jereth's sisters, either.... >Jereth's next assignment was being loaned to Eli for a period of three >years. Jereth didn't *like* working for the Other Side, but Eli was >into Freedom in a way that no Prince Jereth had ever met could match, Presumably "loaned to" here means "Lilith sold his Geases to". Your description above certainly implies that he wouldn't have bargained with Eli for those three years to pay for any important resources, so they'd have to come from Geases owned by Lilith. This is three Geas/6s worth, and with the 3 Geas/3s still extant to Lilith, that totally accounts for the standard 27 levels of starting Geases for Free Lilim. But the Kobal job was presumably also a Lilith-owned Geas (since he didn't get anything for it, except the shaft...). And he doesn't seem to have enough "goodies" to have bargained away much Geas time on his own for payment. You might want to think a bit about where the extra Geases came from, and what they were used for. (One thing that comes to mind is that the Need might have originally been a level or two higher, and he bargained with Mom to get it reduced, leaving him more in her debt.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 15:01:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Two NPCS for your perusal On Thu, 7 May 1998, York H. Dobyns wrote: > Elizabeth McCoy writes: > > >The In Nomine Line Editor (that's me) says: No characteristics > >above 12. No Forces over 6. No skill-levels over 6. Anything > >else, please check errata and then tell me about it if it's > >not there, so I can put it there. > > Why? Cuz IN isn't quite as flexible a system as GURPS, and attributes above 12 and skills above 6 *do* break the system rather easily. > Among other things, this imposes a hard limit on experience > expenditures. If somebody is running a weekly campaign, even a minimal 1 > pt-per-session award makes possible an 18-Force PC within less than 2 > years. (Of course, IN hasn't been *out* for quite 2 years yet, has it?) You know, this is the 3rd or 4th time I've seen someone say this, and it isn't realistic. The only way that would happen is if you devoted EVERY point you got to saving up for a new Force. In practice, that rarely happens. I'm fairly generous with my PCs...I give 3-6 experience per adventure (*not* session), AND I usually give them a little something from their Superior, too, though sometimes it's as simple as an Essence/body hits refill. And yet only one of my players has a new Force after several months of playing. Players tend to spend their points on improving Skills and buying new ones, and improving Songs and buying new ones. The ones who build themselves up tend to just raise attributes gradually instead of saving up to buy a whole Force at once (impatience is a virtue :). Realistically, if a player got 1 point per week on average, I'd say the average player would buy about 3 points' worth of skills and 3 points' worth of songs for every attribute they raise. That means about 36 weeks to raise a Force, which means they max out after over 6 years. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 20:05:17 +0100 (BST) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: IN> Michael's Dissonance Conditions (Re: Angels and Dicey Words) On Thu, 7 May 1998, York H. Dobyns wrote: > In an all-Michaelite military unit, how can the *commander* ever order a > fighting retreat as described above? Orders are fine, but *somebody* has > to get stuck with issuing them -- and from the description, it is > dissonant for a Michaelite commander to order a retreat, unless he plans > to stand as rearguard himself. Options: a) Add 'the note of dissonance vanishes immediately if a [sufficiently highly ranked] superior later condones the retreat.' b) Michaelite leaders never retreat. They get Trauma'ed. c) Michaelite leaders don't go into battle in the first place, they stand at the back. (YUCK!) d) Michaelite leaders carry walkie-talkies. e) Retreat doesn't mean 'fall back' it means 'abandon a cause.' Hence it applies to all sorts of things as well as actual physical fighting. f) If a Michaelite has committed to a fight he can't win, he deserves dissonance. (Harsh, especially if unexpected reinforcements show up, but who ever said Michael wasn't harsh?). Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:12:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Gorethiel, Demon of BFGs - ---MarkDEddy wrote: > Pigs? Is this some meaning of pig I'm not familliar with? I've heard of > sapping with kegs of gunpowder, or setting the tunnel supports on fire, but > pigs? > > Mark(Terribly confused...) > I wondered about that too, Mark...Maybe they forefed the pigs, and they went BOOM! :) Graveyard Greg - --exploding pigs? I love it! _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #763 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.