From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed May 13 16:30:10 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA14813 for ; Wed, 13 May 1998 16:30:09 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id PAA06512 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 13 May 1998 15:59:23 -0500 Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 15:59:23 -0500 Message-Id: <199805132059.PAA06512@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #776 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, May 13 1998 Volume 01 : Number 776 In this digest: Re: IN> What's the best source of info... IN> Character Generator Re: Cool! Graveyard Greg's choir revealed! (was Re: IN> Name for the Songbook) Re: IN> Stat limits Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors (Take 2) - Rather long Re: IN>Demon Prince Auditions Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors (Take 2, Part 2) SV: IN> Statistics for Superiors (Take 2, Part 2) Re: IN> Why people roleplay IN> In Nomine Online Re: IN> What's the best source of info... IN> Eli Re: IN> Eli IN> Alternative Reading Re: IN> Alternative Reading Re: Cool! Graveyard Greg's choir revealed! (was Re: IN> Name for the Songbook) Re: IN> Comics (Re: Writing Canon) Re: Cool! Graveyard Greg's choir revealed! (was Re: IN> Name for theSongbook) Re: IN> In Nomine Online Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors (Take 2) - Rather long Re: IN> What's the best source of info... IN> Quantifying Superiors IN> Death Re: IN> In Nomine Online Re: IN> In Nomine Online Re: Cool! Graveyard Greg's choir revealed! (was Re: IN> Name for theSongbook) Re: IN> In Nomine Online Re: IN> Comics (Re: Writing Canon) Re: IN> Alternative Reading Re: IN> In Nomine Online Re: IN> Quantifying Superiors Re: IN> Death Re: IN> Name for the Songbook Re: IN> In Nomine Online ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 21:12:37 -0400 From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: Re: IN> What's the best source of info... >From: Jo Hart >>[Demons and humans] > >*cough* I assume some of those 9-force demonic celestials had pretty decent >willpower for using their resonances though? In which case the fact that >they weren't set up for corporeal combat wouldn't matter. They could still >fairly easily deal with low-willed mortals; armed or not ;) Unless they were Impudites. :) - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 19:35:42 -0600 From: Kelly Cooke Subject: IN> Character Generator Does Anyone Out There know if anyone has written a Character Generator for Windows 95? If you know could you E-mail me please tack351@concentric.net Thanks. - -Kelly ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 04:15:37 +0000 (GMT) From: "The blue eyes, the leather, some guys just like leather" Subject: Re: Cool! Graveyard Greg's choir revealed! (was Re: IN> Name for the Songbook) congrats Greg, I'm still trying to figure out what I am. Starsurfer, of , Angel of words ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 23:56:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Stat limits On Tue, 12 May 1998, Walter Milliken wrote: > Not explicitly, but I believe all the Superiors are set up to allow up > to 3 additional Essence per day from Rites -- there are some with fewer > than 3 Rites, but I believe the remaining Rites make up for it. There > may be an exception or two, though (I don't have the book here with me). Yes! Beleth. ONE rite worth ONE essence, and it takes 6 hours. Is that a gyp or what? Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 23:59:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors (Take 2) - Rather long On Tue, 12 May 1998, Walter Milliken wrote: > >This is very, VERY good. I like it a LOT. I hope the canon-meisters on the > >list take a good, long look at it. While it might not fit their views > >perfectly, I would be very surprised if there wasn't a LOT of stuff in > >there that they could use. > > I looked at it, but it seems more aimed at *playing* Superiors, which, > while a valid concept, isn't the intended direction of IN as I > understand it. Nonono, I mean for playing Wordbound, high level characters. It's great stuff for that. I think Word FOrces will work out perfectly for such charcters. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 00:02:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN>Demon Prince Auditions On Tue, 12 May 1998, Graveyard Greg wrote: > Malphas..who? Mark Alaimo is an actor who's played various characters on Star Trek, mainly Cardassians. He's currently Gul Ducat (IIRC), a reoccuring character on DS9. He is very good at being friendly, talkative (without giving anything he knows away), discretely probing and manipulative, likeable in a weird way, and just the kind of bad guy that you can't really hate, no matter what he does. He's one of my favorite actors. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 21:25:32 -0700 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors (Take 2, Part 2) Leath Sheales wrote: > > Kevin Walsh (the nitpicker) wrote: > > > (Saminga was ranked 21st. Everyone above him has higher Word Forces. > > On a related note, IMG Eli is the most powerful of all the Superiors. > His Word is Creation, which pretty much makes him the Archangel of I have a theory on this. I see Eli as the Archangel of Creation, but maybe that wasn't how it was intended. The universe was created, sure, but it was Eli's only while it being created. When new things were created, that was him too. But maybe, just maybe, somewhere along the line, he aligned it to be Creation. That is, everything. The whole Symphony, perhaps, or maybe just the corporeal realm and things related to it, like the closest parts of Heaven and Hell. Eli did this...and it was bad. For a while he could handle it. But everything is getting more and more complicated all the time. Indeed, it is postulated that the reason God is less involved now is that He has a lot on His mind(I don't capitalize God's pronouns except when talking about In Nomine). Indeed, by definition he has everything on His mind. And now...so does Eli. What's an Archangel who suddenly has incredible power from his newly interpreted word to do? Give up memory, give up most reason. let yourself float and be entirely guided by your word. Much like Gabriel... And so that's one take on the deal with Eli. Or maybe Creation meant the same thing the whole time, but it only recently overwhelmed him. Sean ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 08:42:16 +0200 From: "Jens Alm" Subject: SV: IN> Statistics for Superiors (Take 2, Part 2) Sean wrote: >I have a theory on this. I see Eli as the Archangel of Creation, but >maybe that wasn't how it was intended. The universe was created, >sure, but it was Eli's only while it being created. When new things >were created, that was him too. But maybe, just maybe, somewhere along >the line, he aligned it to be Creation. That is, everything. The >whole Symphony, perhaps, or maybe just the corporeal realm and things >related to it, like the closest parts of Heaven and Hell. > >Eli did this...and it was bad. For a while he could handle it. But >everything is getting more and more complicated all the time. Indeed, [SNIP] The way I interpreted Eli is that he isn't the archangel of Creation (noun), thet part is better left to The Old Guy Upstairs, he is the archangel of Creation (verb). This means that he is the archangel protecting the creation of new things. He has subsequently broadened his word to include that of Destruction in Due Time, as he sees this to be part of the creation cycle. Also the word Creativity originally wasn't his, but somewhere along the line, the word of Creation encompassed that word to, much in the same way as Novalis took her word of Flowers to inlude that of Peace. /Jens Alm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 04:32:27 +0900 From: Simon Hailes Subject: Re: IN> Why people roleplay A while back i read something in some rpg or supplement which actually talked about why people like to roleplay, and what they like about it. basically you had the people who liked putting big holes in things, the people who liked to cleave giant ogres in half, the people who like the thrill of combat and matching wits with mighty foes. Next you had the puzzlers, those who like solving riddles, discerning enigmas and uncovering hidden plot threads, be it answering riddles like 'I walk with you with every stride yet it is in the darkness that I hide' or fidning out which of the gems fit in which hole in the magic seal. The you have the interaction people, who love interacting with others, with themselves, love exploring their character and other people's characters. and generally being with friends and having fun. Lastly (as far as I can remember) you have the nurturers, those who like to watch a beginning character grow, become somebody, then aquire a more powerful status, they enjoy watching their character come alive, gain a past and eventually become a force to be reckoned with. Now I myself am not particularly one of these people, I like all these things, and more about roleplaying, these are just examples you see. But examples that show that there is not one set way to play a roleplaying game, there is one preferred way, but not one true way. Therefore if the players want to play a game where they take on increasingly tougher opponents until they work their way up to Superiors, fine, let it be that way, no GM is stupid simply for sticking a certain style that doesn't really delve in to deeper issues, sometimes we want to get away from deeper issues and kick some butt. I myself don't want to see a cononical force count of each Superior, and definately not one of Lucy, but i have nothing against those who want to use such stats. And for a game where you are playing Superiors, such as my PBEM, then having a genreal idea of each Superiors general level of ability is a really good thing. In capping off, I'll just state that In Nomine does not have the same feel as AD&d and should never be reduced to 'how may xp for killing a 10 Force balseraph' but that doesn't mean the AD&D premise is bad, its just different strokes for different mood and yes, different people. Simon, Once again the Demon Prince of Pearls ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 03:21:15 -0500 From: "Scott Weber" Subject: IN> In Nomine Online Okay... first up, I noticed people mentioning problems with players (You guys call them "munchkins," though we MU*ers call them "twinks") who are more interested in "How many points do I get if I kill this monster?" than in roleplay and development. Honestly, when it comes to the tabletop RPG of *any* type, be it AD&D, Star Wars, or Mage, I've never seen that kind of problem before... it's a group of friends working together and enjoying themselves, which has always been my experience (Though with some things, like AD&D, there *is* a little extra incentive in the form of experience points, but I've never seen it overrun a good game). Really... if you're GM, and your players are that out of hand, I would be more inclined to believe that it's a problem with the players, not with the game system. Having stats for superiors and such listed out would have its benefits, and if you think the disadvantages outweigh the advantages, then hey... remember what the rules tell you: If some rules are getting in the way of having fun with the game, get rid of those rules. Always remember, SJG just writes the books. But *WE* make the rules. Next... and this is the big question... does anybody here know what SJG's policy is about MUSHes? For those who aren't in the know, the Multi-User SHell is a program that is often used to create an online roleplaying game. I myself don't even do the tabletop or Live-Action RolePlay thing... I can never find enough people interested whose schedules coincide. Instead, almost all my roleplaying is done over the internet, because with a MUSH, all you have to do is connect and play - whoever happens to be there at the same time can play with you. Unfortunately, there've been conflicts between such online games and the publishing companies... TSR, for one, once went on an anti-MUSHing spree, before the company was bought by Wizards of the Coast... their new policy is much more lenient. I'm hoping SJG's policy toward online gaming is also understanding... I would sure like to see a good In Nomine MUSH pop up somewhere. Heck, maybe I'll build it myself, if it's allowable... :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 10:28:04 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> What's the best source of info... On Tue, May 12, 1998 at 07:36:39PM +0100, Jo Hart wrote: > > *cough* I assume some of those 9-force demonic celestials had pretty decent > willpower for using their resonances though? In which case the fact that > they weren't set up for corporeal combat wouldn't matter. They could still > fairly easily deal with low-willed mortals; armed or not ;) > If they're outnumbered, that's not much good to them, especially with a surprise attack. If they sort of stumble onto each other, then the advantage is still with the numerically superior side. Habbalah and Calabim have the best chance of survival, and even then they can only take one person out per turn, while they're getting splattered. The Balseraph and Impudite resonances can't realistically be used in combat, and why would you want to use the Lilim or Djinn resonances? (You sense the Need...to kill you.) Shedim have a strong advantage in this sort of situation. Of course, if it's the demon that's on to them, I expect the demon not to go against them directly, but to use mortal pawns of some description. It's only common sense. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "If you let it get too far it would be the end of everything. You would have bicycles wanting votes and they would get seats on the County Council and make the roads far worse than they are for their own ulterior motivation." The Third Policeman, by Flann O'Brien. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 05:35:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: IN> Eli On Tue, 12 May 1998, Sean McCarthy wrote: > And so that's one take on the deal with Eli. Or maybe Creation meant > the same thing the whole time, but it only recently overwhelmed him. Or maybe he just decided it would be groovy to see what being a Kyriotate would be like. On a cosmic scale. Or we could get all retro-mythological and postulate that the Corporeal plane is actually Eli's -vessel-.... Heck, maybe Eli is God. Why else would God create such a groovy universe if it wasn't so He could go wander through it and see all the neat and funky things it had to to offer? - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 10:45:35 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Eli On Wed, May 13, 1998 at 05:35:09AM -0400, Casca wrote: > Heck, maybe Eli is God. Why else would God create such a groovy universe > if it wasn't so He could go wander through it and see all the neat and > funky things it had to to offer? > He took it as his project in order to gain extra credit? (I read short stories by Heinlein once. It's an unhealthy thing to do.) Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "If you let it get too far it would be the end of everything. You would have bicycles wanting votes and they would get seats on the County Council and make the roads far worse than they are for their own ulterior motivation." The Third Policeman, by Flann O'Brien. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 18:14:58 -0400 From: crossbyte@juno.com Subject: IN> Alternative Reading Ok, I've been listening for a day or two now, and probably speaking up more than I should as a newbie to the list. SOme of your discussions, while I don't yet understand it all, I have opinions on, but as I said earlier, my POV is much different than IN. Here's wher I get a lot of my views on angels. Maybe you can at least get some Campaign Ideas, or occupy your mind while you wait for SJ to approve more fiction: BOOKS: This Present Darkness and Piercing the Darkness by Frank Peretti (Excellent-The story of the ongoing War from the viewpoint of townspeople and the celestial biengs. A lot of hierarchial stuff, too. Even some combat, disguise, and influencing human tecniques described) Pierced by the Sword by Bud McFarlane (Excellent end-of-the-world story, reminiscent of S. King's The Stand. Much better written though. Angels play a minor role. The book is free from http://www.catholicity.com Hunt around for the "Free Novels") The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis (The psychology and methods of demons...excellent, and deep) And of course the Bible, especially the book of Tobit (Raphael is in the entire book as a human) Acts of the Apostles (Jailbreaks, etc.) and of course Genesis and Revelation (The angelic wars) TV: Touched by an Angel -even if some thnk its sappy, Monica and Tess are but one tiny part of the heavenly hosts... SONGS: Entertaining Angels-Newsboys (Only available on the single, it's a good techno/pop song...) Angels Unaware-Michael W. Smith (Part 3 of the trilogy on MWS' I'll lead you home. Are you cetain there are no celestial beings?....) Star in the Book of Life-Big Tent Revival (Found on BTR's Amplifier album, it's an angel's view of humanity) These are only things that have influenced MY philosophy on angels. I'm sure you're going to agree/disagree, but I just thought it wouldn't hurt to recommend some stuff for when "GM Block" sets in... ...The wild truth, reeling but erect. - -G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy ____________________________ http://www.mrmark.com/forums/virtualireland/ http://www.angelfire.com/nj/RIMworld/ _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 13:22:37 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> Alternative Reading On Tue, 12 May 1998 crossbyte@juno.com wrote: > SONGS: This made me take up something I've been thinking about for some time - songs with IN-connections. I haven't got my music here, but here are some that I think of off the top of my head: Sympathy for the Devil - A natural. :) I've got the Laibach album by the same name, which has several versions of this song The Song of Seraphim, by Dead Can Dance - not sure about the exact title, but it's the first track on "The Serpents Egg". A very beautiful, haunting song. The Day the Devil Comes to Get You, by Laurie Anderson - Not sure this is the exact title either. There Must be an Angel (Playing With My Heart), by the Eurythmics - The Leningrad Cowboys version is quite cool too. Then there are the songs that fit the different Superiors/Choirs/Bands: Steel, Speed and Gasoline by La Muerte and Gasoline Man by The Young Gods are both naturals for Janus. SSaG might fit Gabriel or Belial as well... By the Balls by Cycle Sluts from Hell fits any Demon Prince who's less than pleased with the performance of his servants... ;) Maskinerna är våra vänner (The Machines are our Friends) by the Swedish singer Kjell Höglund is a good one for Vapula. These are just a couple I thought of right now - I'll be back with a more complete list later. :) Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! "Jag har känsla för feeling" - Dom Dummaste ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 10:35:48 EDT From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: Cool! Graveyard Greg's choir revealed! (was Re: IN> Name for the Songbook) In a message dated 5/12/98 1:28:29 PM, graveyard_greg@yahoo.com writes: >> >Wow! That would be cool...especially the trout part! ;) >> >> Not another Malakite of Eli! :) >> >> Mark >> >And thus, Mark has helped me discover my choir! THANKS, DUDE!!! > >Graveyard Greg >--Malakite of Creation, Angel of Comic Books You're welcome. I think. ;) And the appropriateness of the Word of Comic Books assigned to a Malakite of Creation, I will leave to the rest of the list. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 10:40:41 EDT From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: IN> Comics (Re: Writing Canon) In a message dated 5/12/98 3:15:00 PM, shadowcat@caravan.nomad.net writes: >On Mon, 11 May 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> (Me, I want In Nomine XXXenophile... Seraphim in Celtic Knots!) >> > > Alright, now that I have HIS image in my head... What are the IN >stats for Petite Morte? Or demoness from the Family Curse what band is >she, or...? > > Shadowcat Didn't you know? Petit Mort (of XXXenophile fame) is actually the Anime Massive Deformed form of Dominic... Mark(Who remembers that discussion...) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 10:44:41 EDT From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: Cool! Graveyard Greg's choir revealed! (was Re: IN> Name for theSongbook) In a message dated 5/12/98 7:22:55 PM, EEEAMEEH@livjm.ac.uk writes: >congrats Greg, I'm still trying to figure out what I am. > >Starsurfer, of , Angel of words From your word, would Elohite or Seraph of Destiny work? Mark(Choir monger to the masses... :} ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 08:06:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Shumaker Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Online On Wed, 13 May 1998, Scott Weber wrote: #Okay... first up, I noticed people mentioning problems with players (You #guys call them "munchkins," though we MU*ers call them "twinks") who are Speaking as someone with alot of MUSH experience a twink is only part of what a munchkin is, but the similarities are pretty close. #Next... and this is the big question... does anybody here know what SJG's #policy is about MUSHes? For those who aren't in the know, the Multi-User #SHell is a program that is often used to create an online roleplaying game. I believe that they have information at the web site concerning these things. (One nit-pick though MUSH stands for Multi User Shared Hallucination) From the "Online Policy" under general there is the following... "Create my own MUD, MUSH or computer game? No. These conflict with our licensing program. If you are a professional game developer and want to talk about licenses, write to the Director of Licensing." That doesnt mean that In Nomine can't inspire you to make a MUSH about Angels and Demons but try not to make it the In Nomine world :) - -Jim Shumaker ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 98 12:08 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Statistics for Superiors (Take 2) - Rather long >Nonono, I mean for playing Wordbound, high level characters. It's great >stuff for that. I think Word FOrces will work out perfectly for such >charcters. For Word-bound, no problem -- that's why I cooked up the Word Forces concept in the first place. But there was a lot of stuff in the original post that was specific to Superiors (e.g., Tethers). - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 12:14:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> What's the best source of info... On Wed, 13 May 1998, Kevin Walsh wrote: > would you want to use the Lilim or Djinn resonances? (You sense the > Need...to kill you.) See K.K., Lilim of Dark Humor, on the INC, for an answer to that. :) Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 12:07:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Martin Leslie Leuschen Subject: IN> Quantifying Superiors Just to earn my role "Lucifer's advocate/1" here - what is so terrible about strong and clever PCs being able to kill an AA or DP? Everyone seems to think it is so terrible. *I* find it terrible that canon Superiors can squash any PC they can reach. (And Superiors have awful long "arms".) Regards, Martin Leuschen martinl@rice.edu Workin' on the Role ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 10:18:00 -0700 From: alloni@ibsystems.com (Alloni Kramer) Subject: IN> Death More of those annoying questions of mine. Mortal death. What happens to the soul? I don't mean is there life after death, that's already been established. But at the instant of death, does the soul vanish and reappear at it's destination? Is there a journey? Is there a soul collector? Can Celestials manipulate souls? (Manipulate in the sense of pick up and move around, not in the sense of alter, though I suppose that's a valid question as well.) Are souls celestial entities, and as such can be seen and manipulated by Celestials in celestial form? I know, these are all "different in each campaign" questions. I'm just looking for a consensus of any kind, and if not, I'm just looking for a pros/cons debate. Plot hook: A powerful, corrupt mortal has just died, and demons in Hell are preparing a special welcome for him. Time passes, and the soul is nowhere to be found. What happened? A DP redirecting it for his own purposes? An AA somehow messing with the flow of souls to Hell (maybe just to cause confusion, maybe for some more ... entertaining purpose)? Or maybe it just got lost, having never had any good intentions? Alloni ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 14:47:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Eslin Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Online On Wed, 13 May 1998, Scott Weber wrote: > Next... and this is the big question... does anybody here know what SJG's > policy is about MUSHes? It is, alas: MUSHes are bad. No no no. :) > almost all my roleplaying is done over the internet, because with a MUSH, > all you have to do is connect and play - whoever happens to be there at the > same time can play with you. Note: In Nomine games played *over* the Internet appear to be fine. Certainly there are a horde of In Nomine play-by-emails, and at least one game going on in a nook on a social MUSH online. It's just MUSHes, which are alternate game systems after a fashion themselves, that appear to conflict. -- Chephirah, Cherub of Destiny /// LOVE JUSTICE! (and blame Em) Fiat Justitia: http://homepages.tcp.co.uk/~maya/nomine/fiat.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 14:15:08 -0500 From: "Scott Weber" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Online > "Create my own MUD, MUSH or computer game? > > No. These conflict with our licensing program. If you are a > professional game developer and want to talk about licenses, write to the > Director of Licensing." > > That doesnt mean that In Nomine can't inspire you to make a MUSH about > Angels and Demons but try not to make it the In Nomine world :) True enough... in one way, this is rather useful loophole, but in another way, it's upsetting - In Nomine has taken sources from so many definitive works about Angels and Demons, and compiled them without all that much change. One could argue that were I to put up a MUSH with similar theme that I would be stealing the creators' "intellectual property," as it were... but at the same time, isn't so much of this stuff general public knowledge? I mean, heck - I could change a few names here and there and end up with a MUSH about Angels and Demons that was very much like In Nomine, yet only drew on biblical resources, or other works of literature (Milton, etc.) and therefore didn't infringe upon In Nomine's copyrights. Still, it's rather unsettling to know that In Nomine can't be made into a MUSH... I was hoping for a much different approach toward online stuff... But the problem with In Nomine remains that it's been stated officially, "No MUSHes" - well... I guess my question is, then, who do we go to if we want to appeal to these people? That is, were I to rally a little support from players who would very much like to see In Nomine proliferate in the MUSHing community, who could we speak/plead/beg to in order to be allowed to create something like this, and does anybody think it'd stand a snowflake's chance in Hell? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 20:24:54 +0000 (GMT) From: "The blue eyes, the leather, some guys just like leather" Subject: Re: Cool! Graveyard Greg's choir revealed! (was Re: IN> Name for theSongbook) >From your word, would Elohite or Seraph of Destiny work? Aye could work. It all depends on how you interprate the word "word". is it a destiny thing or a creation thing? Or is it a creation in service to destiny thing? Just checked out the seraph of destiny attunement, appropriate for the word. so's eli's. ah, that is the truth. Starsurfer, Seraph of Creation, in service to Destiny, Angel of Words. Thanks Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 20:34:41 +0000 (GMT) From: "The blue eyes, the leather, some guys just like leather" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Online There is an In Nomine Mush out there. I visited it once although I misplaced the address. Completly dead it was. Starsurfer, Seraph of Creation in service to Destiny, Angel of Words. (how appropriate for the angel of words to have so many in his title) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 22:18:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Shadowcat Subject: Re: IN> Comics (Re: Writing Canon) On Wed, 13 May 1998, MarkDEddy wrote: > In a message dated 5/12/98 3:15:00 PM, shadowcat@caravan.nomad.net writes: > > >On Mon, 11 May 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > > >> (Me, I want In Nomine XXXenophile... Seraphim in Celtic Knots!) > >> > > > > Alright, now that I have HIS image in my head... What are the IN > >stats for Petite Morte? Or demoness from the Family Curse what band is > >she, or...? > > > > Shadowcat > Didn't you know? Petit Mort (of XXXenophile fame) is actually the Anime > Massive Deformed form of Dominic... > Mark(Who remembers that discussion...) LOL. I forgot about that, and besides I think I started that discussion as well. All right, here's my take on the various demon and such from XXXenophile. Demoness from -DEMONstration of Affection- Issue #1 Lillim of Lust Little demon w/camera from same Imp of Media Demon & Angel in -End Game- Issue #4 Kronos (in beastial for) and Yves Monster under the bed from -Monster Under the Bed- Issue #8 a very horny, tripped cherub of dream. Petit Morte cover of Issue #9 warped Anime version of Dominic Demoness from -Bequeth the Sheets- Issue #9 Lillim of the game, trasnurring over to lust REEAALLL Soon. These are just the celestials. The various Eterhials are left as a exercise to the reader > Shadowcat All cats may look upon a king. No comment on the Queen ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 98 15:46 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Alternative Reading >> SONGS: > >This made me take up something I've been thinking about for some time - >songs with IN-connections. I haven't got my music here, but here are some >that I think of off the top of my head: I suggest people look at the IN digest archives before we get this thread going again -- there was a *long* period of people posting just this sort of thing. (Also "mood music" for IN games.) Maybe that stuff should be collected by some volunteer for posting on the INC web pages? - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 16:28:45 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Online At 3:21 AM -0500 5/13/98, Scott Weber wrote: >Next... and this is the big question... does anybody here know what SJG's >policy is about MUSHes? For various reasons, which I *think* (note that high degree of uncertainty!!!) pertain to the legal rights, there can be no official In Nomine MUSHs, MOOs, MUDs, etc. (And no unofficial ones either, legally.) If you want to run a game over a M* or IRC or whatever, that's different, I am pretty sure. That's just running a game, not having a whole M* with an IN theme. Again, I *think* this is not SJ Games' saying "we hate M*!" (I *think* they intended to have an official one themselves, at one point!), but is due to legal contract negotiations between SJ Games and Croc/Siroz (?), the INS/MV creators. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 98 16:13 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Quantifying Superiors >Just to earn my role "Lucifer's advocate/1" here - what is so terrible >about strong and clever PCs being able to kill an AA or DP? Everyone seems >to think it is so terrible. Because these are supposed to be people who've survived since ages ago, and they have plenty of enemies. Having J. Random PC Group walk up and blow away a Superior (even with a *lot* of preparation) just doesn't make sense in that context. Otherwise there'd be a *lot* more "churn" among the Princes of Hell. In other words, it breaks the Suspenders of Disbelief/6.... You *could* do it, of course, but you'd have to change the background to fit -- most DPs probably wouldn't survive more than a few decades, if ganging up on them were possible, and probably most AAs wouldn't outlast a century. >*I* find it terrible that canon Superiors can squash any PC they can >reach. (And Superiors have awful long "arms".) Rule #1 of gaming (unless you're playing Amber...): there's *always* someone who can squash the PCs. The trick is to avoid having this come up (at least in fact). The thing to do when an enemy Superior shows up (at least in a bad mood) is *run away*.... Not doing so would constitute terminal stupidity, in my game. Fortunately, Superiors have better things to do than run around swatting annoying PC midges, and in many cases may have better things to do with PCs than destroy them... turn them to *their* side, for example. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 98 16:25 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Death >Mortal death. What happens to the soul? I don't mean is there life after >death, that's already been established. But at the instant of death, does >the soul vanish and reappear at it's destination? Is there a journey? Is >there a soul collector? Not currently defined in canon, as far as I know. My own take on it is that they wind up in Heaven or Hell under their own power, essentially coming out of Trauma at the gates of the appropriate place. (How it is determined which is something of a Mystery, in my campaign, though canon states that it does have to do with whether the soul fulfilled its Destiny or Fate; if neither, it may be reincarnated instead.) > Can Celestials manipulate souls? (Manipulate in >the sense of pick up and move around, not in the sense of alter, though I >suppose that's a valid question as well.) Only Superiors can make changes, I'd say. Maybe some Songs or artifacts might also be able to do it, but they're almost certainly restricted. However, any celestial in celestial form should be able to interact in the usual celestial ways with a discorporated human soul. E.g., grab hold of it, or pound it into soulburger.... > Are souls celestial entities, >and as such can be seen and manipulated by Celestials in celestial form? Only dead ones, I think -- they're protected by their corporeal form while alive. These would only be seen in the celestial realm, normally, with rare exceptions (Saints, maybe ghosts, and some humans who died in, and remained in, the Marches). >I know, these are all "different in each campaign" questions. Some of this may become canon someday. There's already a little on soul distribution in Hell, and what happens to human souls in Heaven. >Plot hook: A powerful, corrupt mortal has just died, and demons in Hell >are preparing a special welcome for him. Time passes, and the soul is >nowhere to be found. What happened? A DP redirecting it for his own >purposes? An AA somehow messing with the flow of souls to Hell (maybe just >to cause confusion, maybe for some more ... entertaining purpose)? Or >maybe it just got lost, having never had any good intentions? I think this is perfectly plausible. Perhaps he slipped through the Gates of Hell unnoticed, or was snagged by some DP before sorting in Hades. Or he might not have actually reached his Fate yet, in which case he might have reincarnated. (All this would follow from what bits of canon there are on the subject.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 15:39:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Bob the Dancing Monkey Subject: Re: IN> Name for the Songbook I would actually prefer for the Songbook something very much like Liber Reliquarum - perhaps Liber Cantorum (Book of the Song). I quite liked the way that the first Liber was done - there's something about a series of books that don't have flashy, pseudo-marketing-clever names. A series of Liber books fits the concept of what these books look like they will become - a library of Celestial resources. I'd think it pretty slick. On the other foot, if you actually went for a slightly less regular naming system, I'd like to suggest a name for an eventual book... The Book of Discord - The Principia Discordia - -Drew Drew Johnson - http://www.econ.umn.edu/~djohnson/ U of Minn - CLANet - Econ Office phone: x5-4885 No-daaaaa. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 98 16:42 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Online [Scott Weber:] >Still, it's rather unsettling to know that In Nomine can't be made into a >MUSH... I was hoping for a much different approach toward online stuff... I think, given past things they've tried to do, they're hoping to do this themselves, possibly as a semi-commercial thing. Thus it would make sense for them not to want competitors. SJGames/io.com once had an online MOO called metaverse, and they're trying to revive it. The MOO instructions for chatting at Pyramid magazine point at http://metaverse.net, which has a FAQ explaining all this. Right now, it only mentions GURPS, but I'd expect In Nomine to be in the plans, too. Note that I don't know anything about this, really, even if I do write IN stuff on occassion. And if I *did* know anything, I probably couldn't talk about it.... I *do* know SJ is interested in the net in general, and specifically in MUD/MOO/MUSH technology, from the prior incarnation of metaverse. >But the problem with In Nomine remains that it's been stated officially, >"No MUSHes" - well... I guess my question is, then, who do we go to if we >want to appeal to these people? It looks like, from the metaverse FAQ, that there might be official support for this someday. But I'm just guessing here.... > That is, were I to rally a little support >from players who would very much like to see In Nomine proliferate in the >MUSHing community, who could we speak/plead/beg to in order to be allowed >to create something like this, and does anybody think it'd stand a >snowflake's chance in Hell? I'd start by talking to Kira (kira@io.com), who's SJGames' web and MOO wizard. (She's mentioned in the metaverse FAQ.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #776 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.