From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu May 14 12:00:16 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA26309 for ; Thu, 14 May 1998 12:00:16 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id LAA24779 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 14 May 1998 11:55:48 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 11:55:48 -0500 Message-Id: <199805141655.LAA24779@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #778 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, May 14 1998 Volume 01 : Number 778 In this digest: IN> LARP ideas??? Re: IN> Alternative Reading IN> Defeating/Killing Superiors Re: IN> Alternative Reading IN> More Offing Superiors (Long) Re: IN> LARP ideas??? Re: IN> Offing Superiours Re: IN> Alternative Reading Re: IN> Eli IN> Annoying players (Was: In Nomine Online) IN> Unofficial-but-oficially-illeagal stuff Re: IN> More Offing Superiors (Long) Re: IN> More Offing Superiors (Long) Re: IN> What's the best source of info... Re: IN> Eli Re: IN> Unofficial-but-oficially-illeagal stuff Re: IN> More Offing Superiors (Long) Re: IN> In Nomine Online IN> Dis (Long) IN> Another reading suggestion ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 21:59:48 +0100 From: Roland Ward Subject: IN> LARP ideas??? Apologies if this has been said before, but Don't you think In Nomine would suit being LARP'ed (Live action) I'm not particularly a fan of LARP's generally, but In nonime could really be funny... Roland :-) (or perhaps that should be 0:-> and >;-> ) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roland Ward Glasgow Scotland, U.K. rward@cqm.co.uk brought to you by Red Hat Linux... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 19:02:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Knop Subject: Re: IN> Alternative Reading > >>>I suggest people look at the IN digest archives before we get this > thread going again -- there was a *long* period of people posting just > this sort of thing. (Also "mood music" for IN games.) Maybe that stuff > should be collected by some volunteer for posting on the INC web pages?<<< > > Yes, and as Moriah, Beth's predecessor, pointed out, just about any lyrics > can conceivably be tied to some Superior or In Nomine theme, thus the > thread can go on _forever_.... Besides, as far as I'm concerned, the 4th movement of Saint-Saens' 3rd symphony is pretty much the last word in angelic music, so the issue has been settled for >100 years. :) - -Rob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 22:25:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: IN> Defeating/Killing Superiors On Wed, 13 May 1998, Martin Leslie Leuschen wrote: > Just to earn my role "Lucifer's advocate/1" here - what is so terrible > about strong and clever PCs being able to kill an AA or DP? Everyone seems > to think it is so terrible. Actually, it IS possible, according to canon, even. Haagenti started off as a 3-6 Force familiar, worked his way up to PC level, then kept growing from there. I don't have my books with me, but if I'm not mistaken, he devoured his first Superior before he became a Prince... Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 22:37:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Alternative Reading On Wed, 13 May 1998, David Edelstein wrote: > >>>I suggest people look at the IN digest archives before we get this > thread going again -- there was a *long* period of people posting just > this sort of thing. (Also "mood music" for IN games.) Maybe that stuff > should be collected by some volunteer for posting on the INC web pages?<<< > > Yes, and as Moriah, Beth's predecessor, pointed out, just about any lyrics > can conceivably be tied to some Superior or In Nomine theme, thus the > thread can go on _forever_.... Okay, but before the thread dies completely, I'd like to say that the best background music for a Demonic game is the Electric Hellfire Club. Now I'll shut up. :) Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 22:04:07 -0500 (CDT) From: Martin Leslie Leuschen Subject: IN> More Offing Superiors (Long) I get this list as a digest, so I'll try to deal with this as a lump. Perhaps unwise. Note that I'm not trying to get Canon changed here. I will run my IN games however I want, as will y'all. I just think this is an interesting discussion. Which is why I have all the Devil's Advocate comments - I'm personally not strongly on one side or the other, but no one else seems even close to the middle ;( I seem to be arguing with the entire list here. Are you all finding this interesting too? Or should I stop harassing you?) > Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:02:38 -0400 > From: Elizabeth McCoy > Subject: Re: IN> Quantifying Superiors > > Lemme put my Archives Hat on... Okay, it's like this. Superiors are > more than just mega-powerful celestials. Each and every one of them > embodies a *Word*, a concept, an integral piece of *REALITY*. > Letting a bunch of hotshots just walk up to a Superior and waste it > pretty well shatters that concept. But it is canon that Superiors *can* kill each other, *without* destroying the dead celestial's Word. (Q: Are non-Superior worded celestials in the same boat? ) > Which is why canon Superiors won't have "oh kill me now" stats. Just because you give it stats, it does not mean you have to kill it. Just because it can theoretically be killed, does not mean it has to be easy. The munchkins are going to kill it anyway. > If you want to kill a Superior, it's a *campaign*, More or less my thought, as well. It should be epic. I'm allowed to do epic, right? I *like* epic. > where you > undermine them politically and on the corporeal plane, striking > at their Word again and again until they are weakened enough to > take on. Note that only an insane Superior would allow this to happen. If a simple group of (say) 6 celestials was doing massive damage to it's word, it would hunt them down and kill them. They would have to do enough damage to its word to get it bumped below Superior status before it caught them. When it did, that's it. This is a big peeve. Explain to me how the PCs could enrage a vengeful enemy Superior and get away with it. Either they didn't hurt it enough to be *important* (it refuses to come after them personally, even if they scrag its agents) or they have a Superior who wants to kill them. If it ever catches them without another Superior to protect them, it squishes them. > And even then, if you can get one into celestial combat, > expect to lose most of the hotshot attackers. > In the current version of IN, you have to take it *below* Superior level or it simply wastes you as soon as you confront it. BTW - why does anyone confronting a Superior have to be a hotshot? > - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor > GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ > ------------------------------ > >If the PCs pull a > > brilliant coup and enrage Saminga, what do you do? It stretches > those > > suspenders a mite if he doesn't come gunning for them. > > > > Just workin' on the role, > > Martinl > > I have a good number of answers for your question, but the best one > is: They are Beneath His Notice. He figures his servitors will kill > them off, so why sully his hands? > > Gregarius > - --Malakite of Creation But doesn't this trivialize anything they do? They *can't* hurt Sammy enough to get his personal attention? (Even though any servitor of his with 5 Essence and a graveyard can get his attention? If they can hurt him that bad, they die. It's a game of mosquitoes - either you don't matter, or you get swatted. >---------------------------------- > >Yes but then again there's nothing wrong with getting another superior to > off said Promce or Archangel, in fact that would be the safest way to go. > Remember that it was Vader and not Luke who slew the Emperor at the end of > Return of the Jedi. > > Simon, Demon Prince of Pearls Good point. But they still can't do it themselves. Gotta run, Regards, Martin Leuschen martinl@rice.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 22:06:20 -0400 From: eswhanu@juno.com Subject: Re: IN> LARP ideas??? I've already done it, and it runs well as a LARP. I ran an event in the NE United States with 46 people, and it went well. Brian Ward On Wed, 13 May 1998 21:59:48 +0100 Roland Ward writes: >Apologies if this has been said before, but > >Don't you think In Nomine would suit being LARP'ed (Live action) I'm >not >particularly a fan of LARP's generally, but In nonime could really be >funny... > > > >Roland :-) (or perhaps that should be 0:-> and >;-> ) > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Roland Ward >Glasgow >Scotland, U.K. >rward@cqm.co.uk > brought to you by Red Hat Linux... >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 23:05:56 -0700 From: Sean McCarthy Subject: Re: IN> Offing Superiours Once, in a game at a convention, we crashed a plane into the vessel of a Demon Prince. As I recall, the idea was to distract them long enough for most of the party to get away. A Divine Intervention occurred and it was decided that the Hand of God guided the plane and destroyed the vessel. Of course, random luck goes both ways. Since we had more or less finished the adventure, I called my Archangel to see what we had done. An Infernal Intervention resulted, and I somehow summoned another DP by mistake. It's not Canon or anything, but it's fun. Sean (Unsure as to the What of Whom he is, realy) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:17:36 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> Alternative Reading On Wed, 13 May 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 7:59 PM -0400 5/13/98, David Edelstein wrote: > >>>>I suggest people look at the IN digest archives before we get this > >thread going again -- there was a *long* period of people posting just > >this sort of thing. (Also "mood music" for IN games.) Maybe that stuff > >should be collected by some volunteer for posting on the INC web pages?<<< > > > >Yes, and as Moriah, Beth's predecessor, pointed out, just about any lyrics > >can conceivably be tied to some Superior or In Nomine theme, thus the > >thread can go on _forever_.... > > And ever and ever and ever... Please, folks, if you want a list of > stuff -- compile it *off* this list? Do Email to one central person > and then email it to me (or Em?) and it can go on the INC. > > But not the list. Not unless you're going to put up the lyrics on > your own page (for those of us who don't know them) so we can go > and admire them. I'm pretty new to the list, so I didn't know this had been discussed extensively. I'll keep my music to myself - I've seen old threads resurface in other lists, and it's not a pretty sight. :) Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! "Jag har känsla för feeling" - Dom Dummaste ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 05:10:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> Eli On Wed, 13 May 1998, Graveyard Greg wrote: > > Heck, maybe Eli is God. > > That's MY theory! > > Of course, I also believe that Dominic is possibly a Balseraph, and I am convinced that I hit upon something Important when I first put forth that idea, because so many people have chosen to use it on their campaigns. > that Janus and Valefor are the same entity. Go figure... > Nah. It's too obvious. My current pet theory (working on the specifics now) is that Nyarlathotep is one of the Demon Princes. No, I'm not going to give away who it is just yet. ;) - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 21:07:13 -0400 From: crossbyte@juno.com Subject: IN> Annoying players (Was: In Nomine Online) >Okay... first up, I noticed people mentioning problems with players [who] >are more interested in "How many points do I get if I kill this monster?" >than in roleplay and development. Honestly, when it comes to the tabletop >RPG of *any* type, be it AD&D, Star Wars, or Mage, I've never seen that kind >of problem before... Im SW:RPG it was actually a common problem. I was on their mailing list while I played, and it was probably the #1 complaint of both player and GMs. The common solution, of course, was to have the PC take a lot of punishment. A kill-crazed light side PC would turn dark, or a kill-crazed dark sider would meet up with a more powerful dark-sider who would crush the PC (with ample time to mend his ways, of course). IN version: Demons are dark side and angels are light. To much killing and an angel falls, too much killing and the bully demon meets a bigger bully. Stories were tossed around like the arrogant Jedi who lost an arm to a shotgun when he tried to use force absorb...or the dude who wanted a lightsaber (although he wasn't Jedi) real bad and accepted an IQ of a rock in exchange. In battle, the GM informed him the PC had turned it on while holding it backwards... Of course, most guys *should* wise up when they realize they aren't getting force pooints (or essence) and the other players are... > Really... if >you're >GM, and your players are that out of hand, I would be more inclined to >believe that it's a problem with the players, not with the game >system. Also realize it's not the GM's fault either. I most definitely agree with this. ...The wild truth, reeling but erect. - -G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy ____________________________ http://www.mrmark.com/forums/virtualireland/ http://www.angelfire.com/nj/RIMworld/ _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 21:13:44 -0400 From: crossbyte@juno.com Subject: IN> Unofficial-but-oficially-illeagal stuff We've brought up that SJ Games doesn't like MUDs... But I was browsing the net, looking for IN stuff and found a directory full of txt files, but no HTML. Upon downloading and reading, I could piec it together, and was wondering if anyone can tell me what exactly I stumbled upon, and what I'm missing Pieced together, here's the headings: (I can see SJ games getting into a flurry to find this site...but I absolutely forgot where it is...) Outline Chapter 3: Playing the Game Chapre 4B: Symphonies (Part II) Chapter 6:Choirs Chapter 8: The Heavens Chapter 9: Bands Chapter 11: Hell Chapter 12: Templates Chapter 13: Resources TIA! ...The wild truth, reeling but erect. - -G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy ____________________________ http://www.mrmark.com/forums/virtualireland/ http://www.angelfire.com/nj/RIMworld/ _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:53:36 +0100 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: IN> More Offing Superiors (Long) (I think it's interesting, Martin.) I think the problem with giving superiors stats is not so much that PCs will want to kill them, but that they will start wondering about other ways in which they can be affected. For example, in the LR, a description is given of Dominic's cloak which includes the fact that the wearer can't be affected by resonances or mind control (I think). Does this imply that other superiors can? We can choose to say, "Nothing a PC does will ever affect a superior directly unless the superior co-operates. However, the superior can do whatever it wants to a PC unless another superior intervenes. They really are a totally different plane of existence and represent elemental forces which are completely out of PC reach." I think this is the standard interpretation. It has the advantage of injecting a tone of awe into the game (which I think Beth has written on far better than I could). Can you lose the invulnerability and keep the awe? I actually think that you could, and that a concerted effort by PCs should be able to leave a superior reeling temporarily (although probably not more than that unless your PCs are rather more powerful than starting stat). So it is a force of nature? Then catch it somewhere that force would naturally be weak. Or catch it when it has already been weakened by some external event. But whether they are inviolate or not, they are still hugely more powerful than PCs and also very active. Jean may be crackling with the essential energies of the universe but if he is summoned to a rubberised stone chamber far away from any power supplies when he was already reeling from a nasty bout with Vapula's raygun ... and then bound into a shard of glass... I don't think he would be laughing. (I think there is a canon example of a superior being bound into an object?) But it does leave the lingering question -- what happens when the superior decides that enough is enough? Is the threat of another superior intervening enough to preclude going to squash the PCs personally -- because that is the only thing that /could/ stop them? Generally it isn't enough of a threat, but a superior will tend to see a PC's action and assume that their own superior was directly behind it. So their form of striking back may or may not affect the actual celestial who offended. If the PC managed to personally irritate the superior (harder to do than it sounds) then they are probably in mortal trouble, yes. Ultimately, it is the protection of their own superior and a certain amount of judicious caution which will keep their hides together. Venture into the corporeal world without that judicious caution and see Darwinism in action! A large amount of the war is fought covertly, between servitors of either side who all wish not to draw too much superior attention. I like the cold war feeling. Demons huddle with angels in quiet bus-shelters under the flickering street lights and make dreadful deals to keep the cities they inhabit far from the mass destruction that a visit from Baal might bring. Ambitious young celestials plot to bring off grand coups which they can bring before their superiors as a fait accompli and try to stop the older and more uptight celestials from finding out in time to stop them. But none of that could happen if superiors could be everywhere at once and took every setback as something which needed to be personally resolved. I don't think superiors need to be completely untouchable, but that doesn't mean PCs shouldn't be sensibly afraid of them. A problem on the GM side of the fence is trying not to be desperately unfair to the PCs. If they are cautious and sensible, then it isn't a problem (but how many PCs will be? :) ), but once you have personally annoyed (or killed) enough powerful opponents even at the sub-superior level you should be in deep deep trouble. I've never had problems designing unstoppable demonic strike forces which could take out a group of PCs easily, given enough time, effort and priority and they might never get a chance to call their own superior to help... Players would complain that it wasn't fair, and they'd be right. It probably wouldn't be fun for them either, but neither is having the opposition presenting too easy a challenge. Its just a personal thing I think, for different groups of players. jo 'To bore people, tell them everything.' -- Voltaire ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:31:38 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> More Offing Superiors (Long) On Wed, May 13, 1998 at 10:04:07PM -0500, Martin Leslie Leuschen wrote: > Note that only an insane Superior would allow this to happen. If a > simple group of (say) 6 celestials was doing massive damage to it's word, > it would hunt them down and kill them. They would have to do enough > damage to its word to get it bumped below Superior status before it > caught them. When it did, that's it. > You have to _catch_ them first. And that can be difficult. It's not as if you can hold onto their Hearts to find them. And these Celestials may well have backup (they'd be insane to try without it, IMO), in addition to being kickass themselves. And you don't want to show too much interest in them because it'll attract the attention of other Superiors. Spending excessive attention on a few PC types is tantamount to a confession of weakness, which could well start a feeding frenzy. And then you're f***ed no matter what happens. And there's always other stuff you have to attend to. Always. Sometimes you mightn't be able to spend enough resources to do the job. > Good point. But they still can't do it themselves. > Isn't being a catalyst good enough for your PCs? If they want to do it themselves, they can do as Haagenti did and build themselves up over several hundreds of years with the covert assistance of another Superior. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "If you let it get too far it would be the end of everything. You would have bicycles wanting votes and they would get seats on the County Council and make the roads far worse than they are for their own ulterior motivation." The Third Policeman, by Flann O'Brien. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:50:15 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> What's the best source of info... On Wed, May 13, 1998 at 12:14:21PM -0400, Pee Kitty wrote: > > would you want to use the Lilim or Djinn resonances? (You sense the > > Need...to kill you.) > > See K.K., Lilim of Dark Humor, on the INC, for an answer to that. :) > I saw it, and disagree. If you can be easily killed, the most you get is a Geas/1, which is not worth a Vessel/1, especially given that you'll be spending a while in Trauma. K.K. is funny, but not realistic. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "If you let it get too far it would be the end of everything. You would have bicycles wanting votes and they would get seats on the County Council and make the roads far worse than they are for their own ulterior motivation." The Third Policeman, by Flann O'Brien. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:23:11 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Eli On Thu, May 14, 1998 at 05:10:00AM -0400, Casca wrote: > > Of course, I also believe that Dominic is possibly a Balseraph, and > > I am convinced that I hit upon something Important when I first put forth > that idea, because so many people have chosen to use it on their campaigns. > I never agreed, possibly because I can't stand the idea that Asmodeus is morally superior to anyone. > > that Janus and Valefor are the same entity. Go figure... > > > Nah. It's too obvious. > But it's funny if it's true. Because of Valefor's Habbalah if for no other reason. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "If you let it get too far it would be the end of everything. You would have bicycles wanting votes and they would get seats on the County Council and make the roads far worse than they are for their own ulterior motivation." The Third Policeman, by Flann O'Brien. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:13:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Bob the Dancing Monkey Subject: Re: IN> Unofficial-but-oficially-illeagal stuff I believe that you came upon the old Choir of Angels, a relic from the time that Derek Pearcy was still working on the game and putting out updates for those of us who were not so patiently waiting... www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/choirs - -Drew Drew Johnson - http://www.econ.umn.edu/~djohnson/ U of Minn - CLANet - Econ Office phone: x5-4885 No-daaaaa. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:48:43 EDT From: MarkDEddy Subject: Re: IN> More Offing Superiors (Long) In a message dated 5/13/98 7:10:46 PM, martinl@rice.edu writes: >This is a big peeve. Explain to me how the PCs could enrage a vengeful > >enemy Superior and get away with it. Either they didn't hurt it enough >to >be *important* (it refuses to come after them personally, even if they > >scrag its agents) or they have a Superior who wants to kill them. If it > >ever catches them without another Superior to protect them, it squishes > >them. I'll explain exactly how the PC's in my campaign managed to destroy Andrephalus' operations in a major city (Seattle) and get away with it. Two words: The Game. The lusties had been getting overconfident and sloppy when the PC's showed up. Over the course of a (roughly) three month period, two servitors of Lust had redeemed, two Soldiers had been recruited away from Hell when their recruiting was Lust's responsibility, and Lust's operations had been (mostly) shut down by the PC's working with SPD (Seattle Police Department). This Got Andrephalus' Attention (TM), but it also got Asmodeus' attention. When the PC Servitor of Dominic pointed out to the Servitors of The Game just how sloppy the Lust operations had been, Asmodeus ended up raking Andrephalus over the coals. Thus, Andrephalus had other fish to fry. (Gabriel showing up at the climax of the operation didn't hurt...) Mark ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 08:34:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Shumaker Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Online I believe that sjgames online policy for multiple user gaming environment's such as a MOO, MUSH, MUD or MUX is there for a mere protection of copyright. For reasons that are not kin to me MUSHes have fallen into a definition of non-acceptable use of most fen material. This includes a RPG system. Creating MUSHes about certain books (while done all the time), is not purely legal. Granted, SJGames can allow users to make MUSHes of their games, but in doing so they are giving up their rights. I dont believe that their policy is dictated because they a) want to create their own M**s, b) do not like online games or c) because of their contract with In Nomine's original creators. Steve Jackson Games has always shown itself to be above most of the other gaming companies for the range of freedom you have in the use of their products. (I believe they are the only company that has a developers license available on the net). They have also led the way out of most companies (gaming or otherwise) for their presence in the computing world. They have had online games they have personally run, and they are currently running a M** on their io server. As for an Angel/Demon M***, do it. In Nomine is not the only Angel/Demon game. I believe IN isnt even the first. - -Jim Shumaker ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 12:30:33 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Dis (Long) If Satan is divided against himself, how can his kingdom stand? - Luke 11:18 ~*~ He wandered through the house, chuckling. The house was almost endless, full of cozy nooks, libraries of fascinating books, and, of course, play rooms. But it was still hard to pretend he didn't know exactly where the little boy was. He was, naturally, atuned to him, and to all children everywhere. It made it hard to play fair at hide-and-seek. He rounded the corner and almost stumbled into the female form standing there. She was equally surprised. As she recovered composure, he did the same. How could she have surprised him? Well, it wasn't as if she was really a demon. "Christopher," she said, "you Owe me." The Archangel of Children nodded, scowling. Many times, he had taken a geas in return for getting her to forego some crib deaths. She hated babies, and always had. That's why all her own "children" were made full-grown. "I want it all," she said. "Now. In Essence." His eyes widened. The scowl returned, then faded. At least it was the end of the debt. "Okay," he said. He reached forward and prodded her shoulder. "Tag. You're it." ~*~ She breezed through the flap of his tent without any call of permission. Also without being noticed by the guards. Michael looked up from the map and raised an eyebrow. "You Owe me," she said. "Payment time. In Essence." "Fine," he said, standing up. And up. He was huge. She was briefly conscious that, should he object, there was no possibility of winning -- or surviving -- a physical fight. But he just turned from her and rummaged in a pile at the back of the tent. He threw her the Sword of Joshua, the Spear of Longinus, and the Holy Howitzer of Heschel. (Not all great celestial weapons are famous on Earth.) "Those will render down to enough. Keep the change. And good luck on your move. Confusion to the enemy and all that." The weapons vanished in her hands as she picked them up. Her face paled at his last words. "You know?" Michael smiled. "Who else in Heaven knows?" "You want strategic intelligence?" said Michael. "What's it worth to you?" He grinned. She vanished. ~*~ Novalis, deep in her bower, eyed the greeny-gold rose beetle with suspicion. It grew and expanded into a woman-shape. "You Owe me," she said. Novalis nodded, agreeing. So often, in the interests of peace and mercy, it's necessary to cut a bit of a deal. "I'll take it in Essence." The Archangel of Flowers nodded again, still without speaking. All around her, the fragrances grew, thickened, doubled and redoubted. Her intruder breathed deep, sighed in satisfaction, and was gone. The air was left clear. ~*~ An embryo hurrican spiraled over the west coast of Africa. Above it, where no bird should be able to fly, an eagle flew. It was the size of a 747, and blue. Another eagle, normal-sized and green, swung up out of the clouds and called to it. "Janus! You Owe me!" "Do I?" Eagles can't smile, but the tone of voice in that short reply positively grinned. "You know you do!" called the other bird, flapping hard to gain altitude. "Then take it," replied the Archangel of Wind. He winced a little as the maelstrom around him calmed, just a little, very briefly. "That's not a tenth of it!" called the green eagle. "Where's the rest?" The giant eagel only laughed. She reached out again, but there was definitely no more geas to pull in. She sank back into the clouds, wondering if she would do any better when she collected from Valefor. ~*~ The pride of winged lions that was Jordi dropped a bloody mass before the woman's feet. "There," said one of the lion-mouths. "Your share. Take it." If he hoped to gross her out, he was disappointed. She had been a ravening hunger in the dark since first she struck out on her own. She devoured the meat and left. ~*~ A window opened on Jean's terminal. He read the message and grunted. Then he entered the command TRANSMIT ESSENCE followed by a very large number and an infernally complicated identification key. The Archangel of Lightning paused thoughtfully, then entered many more commands -- commands like MONITOR, SCAN, and REPORT. ~*~ Zadkiel looked the prisoner up and down. "Well, well. It's been ages. Let her go," she told the Malakim. The trespasser fumed. How had Zadkiel intercepted her? Well, if anyone could, it would be the Archangel of Protection. And there had been a lot of times when protection involved cutting a deal with someone who could influence the aggressors. "I'm here to collect," she told her hostess. "All of it. In Essence." Zadkiel nodded. "Fine. I've got it laid by for you. It's with Marc." She smiled. "Protection money, you could call it." ~*~ Marc reached into the wall safe and drew out two bags. He plopped both on the desk before her. "Here's Zadkiel's," he said, "and here's my own. Very convenient, for us, you wanting it in straight Essence. No conversion costs that way." He smiled at her, very sweetly. Too sweetly. Hardly anyone in Heaven hated her more than he, the Archangel of Trade, Mr. Fair Deal. Word friction. "Want to count it?" he asked. ~*~ The Habballah appeared directly at Dominic's side. At least, it looked like a Habballah, but the many eyes in Dominic's hood held only surprise and concern. "My lord!" the creature cried to the Archangel of Judgement. "Asmodeus has left Hell!" The tattoos and ritual scars melted off the shape as it spoke, revealing Dominic's champion undercover Elohite. "Left Hell? The Gamesmaster himself is Renegade?" "Yes, my lord! I am deeply ashamed that I could give you no warning. I should--" "Compose yourself, good and faithful servant. You were set to spy upon one who is second only to the Father of Lies himself in deception." "That is true, of course, my lord. Th- thank you. I fear I may have been thrown off balance by my role and... and by recent circumstance. I said Asmodeus has gone Renegade, but it is more accurate to say he has seceded. Asmodeus, Malphas, and Saminga have formed a triumvirate and founded the realm of Dis. Belial, Nybbas, Vapula, and Lilith are with them. Kobal and Valefor are, I think, wavering. This was all I could discover before I fled. I thought you should know at the first opportunity." "Marvelous! You bring magnificent news!" The hooded, possibly humanoid form melted away. Judgement uncoiled itself in its true seraph shape, a huge length of untarnised silver scales and searingly white wings. Its lips curved in a rare smile. "Hell has brought judgement on itself." ~*~ Dis is the new realm of the damned. Officially, it is ruled by the Triumvirate -- Malphas, Asmodeus, and Saminga. Saminga is styled "Emperor" and the other two are his "Co-Regents." It was Malphas's idea, of course. Such a secession would strengthen the Word of Factions as nothing had since the Fall itself, which was too early to do any good. The hard part was enlisting the aid of Asmodeus, but the spirit of the Game is not far removed from treachery, so eventually it was done. Probably. It's not like the two arch-traitor princes *trust* each other. Saminga, on the other hand, trusts them completely. He's always "known" he was the supreme evil, and now these two clever princes have acknowledged him as Emperor of Dis, supporting him as his two "Co-Regents." Saminga was won over quickly and easily, once Asmodeus and Malphas allied, and he certainly does not realize that he has not one but two Powers-Behind-the-Throne in "his" new empire. Saminga and Belial supply the military muscle for Hell's new competitor. Belial is always bloodlusty, and almost as easy to manipulate as Saminga (he was won over by promises of certain mayhem to strengthen and delight his Word), while the Death Prince's Word just grows stronger when he takes casualties, making it easy to whip up replacements. One of the major internal problems for the two Black Eminences (as Malphas and Asmodeus are now being called in private corners) is heading off competition between the destructive Word of Death and Fire. Vapula was won over by appeals to his Habbalite nature: this civil war will be such an elegant device for the wicked in Hell to punish each other. And the Black Eminences promised to let him try out all manner of military technology that Lucifer panned. But the Black Eminences know almost as well as Vapula himself how free of allegiance is technology, so they watch him carefully. Nybbas was won by promises of fame, and by the challenge of composing the propaganda necessary to hold Dis together. And Lilith, Princess of Freedom, was won by the chance to be truly free of Lucifer at last. It cost her dear, of course, as she knew it would. She has one hell of a gease to Lucifer, if you'll pardon the expression, and no one can pull on them like he can. Of course, no one can manipulate a geas like Lilith. Still, power drained out of her as from a mortal wound. Naturally, the first thing she did, once free, was try to re-build her strength, hence the round of debt collections, not only in Heaven, but in Hell, and quickly, before the protective confusion ended. Not just Princes and Archangels owe her, of course. Huge numbers of celestials, mortals, and souls have suddenly had to pay, often losing Forces to the Princess's hunger. But at least they are free, now. Hardly anyone owe Lilith anything anymore. The Lilim, as a group, rather feel that Mother owes *them*. She has put all of them in hot water. No one trusts them, now, and they don't even trust each other. The same is true, to a lesser degree, of every servitor of the Princes of Dis and, to a still smaller but significant degree, every demon in the pit. Trust, never common in Hell, is at an all-eternity low. ("On the contrary," murmurs Kobal. "This has happened before. Remember Nergal? Ialdabaoth? Ahriman? I do. Perhaps I and Lucifer alone, but we remember the other rebels.") Lucifer hasn't heard yet from Kobal or Valefor. Lucifer can't *find* Kobal or Valefor. Neither is of a mind to join Dis. Both are contemplating going Renegade. If not, they will show up shortly with plausible reasons for their delays. Beleth has re-affirmed her allegiance, and promptly retreated to her dark tower, there to contemplate relocation into the Far Marches, because, of course, the former Angel of Fear is afraid -- afraid to stay and face a civil war, though likewise afraid to go Renegade. For Heaven, it's a once-in-an-eon opportunity. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:40:21 PDT From: "Fred Parham" Subject: IN> Another reading suggestion Esther Friesner wrote three books with angels and demons as some of the main characters: Here Be Demons (1988), Demon Blues (1990), and Hooray for Hellywood (1990). The tone of these books seems just right for an In Nomine campaign -- a mixture of humor, action, mythic stuff, and character development. They include Outcasts, Renegades, sorcerers, the occasional Ethereal spirit, Soldiers, and a few magically (or miraculously) resurrected historical or pseudohistorical figures. They're out of print, but I suspect they wouldn't be too hard to find at used book stores. - ------------ Fred Parham fparham@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #778 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.