From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun May 17 07:19:22 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA14412 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 07:19:21 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id HAA19429 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 17 May 1998 07:24:09 -0500 Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 07:24:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199805171224.HAA19429@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #782 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, May 17 1998 Volume 01 : Number 782 In this digest: IN> Superior Slaying 101 IN> Cajun-Style Blackened-Superior IN> Soldiers, Undead, You know... Re: IN> Soldiers, Undead, You know... IN> ehp is me IN> Interventionist god IN> Tether Construction--Help Wanted! Re: IN> Tether Construction--Help Wanted! Re: IN> Superior Slaying 101 Re: IN> More Offing Superiors (Long) IN> Servants of the Game Re: IN> More Offing Superiors (Long) Re: IN> K.K. the Lilim Munchkin Re: IN>Demon Prince Auditions Re: IN> K.K. the Lilim Munchkin IN>Book Reccommendation Re: IN> "I'm off to Squick Baal Luv - Back fer Dinner!" Re: IN> K.K. the Lilim Munchkin Re: IN> In Nomine Online Re: IN> "I'm off to Squick Baal Luv - Back fer Dinner!" Re: IN> In Nomine Online IN> IRC Re: IN>Book Reccommendation ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 07:57:42 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Superior Slaying 101 >My point was that if the Superior *is literally* some aspect of the Symphony, as you wrote, killing them should kill that aspect.< It would be more accurate to say that a Superior is the literal embodiment of some aspect of the Symphony. Obviously, Sloth still exists despite the death of its Prince, and Knowledge still exists despite the death of Raphael. You can't kill a _concept_. But those concepts that do have celestial embodiments lend power to the embodiments...so if you are up against Saminga, you're not just up against a Shedite with lots and lots of Forces, you're up against a Shedite who is Death incarnate, and his might is equal to the power of Death in the world.... if your PCs have anything near that kind of power, then you play in seriously upscaled games, and I say have fun, same thing I say to people who play AD&D with 67th level Paladin-Magic-User-Cleric-Assassins with +32 Swords of Everything Slaying... - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 08:18:06 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Cajun-Style Blackened-Superior > If the Superior bothers to hunt them down personally....but every Superior > has scads of lesser Servitors of other Superiors doing things to harrass > and weaken it. If they personally hunted down everyone who stings them, > they'd be spending all their time squashing small fry. This trivializes everything the PCs do. It only works if their greatest deeds are average or sub-par<<< It works if their greatest deeds are still not capable of shaking the foundations of the universe, at least not with a few dice rolls. I daresay if a party of PCs sets out with the _goal_ of pissing off a Superior so badly that he comes after them personally, they could do it.... but your whole argument seems to be predicated on the assumption that PCs should have unlimited power to change the universe, and should in fact potentially be the most powerful beings in that universe, or else they are "trivialized". I find that a rather odd proposition, since I can't think of any RPG offhand where it's expected that PCs should be at the top of the cosmic pecking order. Even in games like Champions or Primal Order or Mage where PCs are usually among the most potent beings in the campaign universe, I've never seen players complain that their characters were being "trivialized" because there were far more potent, essentially unkillable, beings out there. >>>What stops "Superior Ambush?" I.e. the angry Superior has a Servitor summon him in front of the PCs, squicks them, then leaves?<<< Flippant answer: what stops a PC in any game from being ambushed by a bunch of thugs with machine guns (or whatever equivalently lethal alternative exists) as he leaves his house in the morning? Dramatic license and the fact that just because in the real world, anyone who annoys the Powers That Be in a serious manner would indeed be squashed doesn't mean that should be the case in any RPG. But a more serious answer: same as I gave earlier -- Superiors don't have the time or inclination to personally attend to the destruction of everyone who annoys them. >>>> or die. Considering relative power levels, this seems likely. In the first round.<<< All that depends on the GM. You could certainly make an argument for "Baal waves his hand -- ok, all of you start making Trauma recovery rolls." Most GMs would probably choose to give the PCs a fighting chance, though (to survive, not to off Baal....) Also note, I am saying Superiors should be pretty much indestructable to PCs, which in In Nomine isn't quite the same thing as saying they are _unkillable_. A sufficiently prepared and lucky PC group might indeed succeed in offing a Superior's _vessel_. That's probably very rare, but it probably _does_ happen from time to time. And it really pisses off the Superior. But it doesn't destroy him, just weakens him a little bit and causes enormous loss of face. >>>On the contrary, it makes them more awesome. "Yes, you could probably kill Baal if a bunch of you gang up on him, sure. No one has in the millenia he's been a DP. Think about that before you try it."<<< That's contradictory. If a bunch of PC-level celestials could "probably" kill (meaning destroy permanently, not just kill a vessel) Baal if they gang up on him, then DPs would be dying constantly, since there's no shortage of Malakim willing to hurl themselves at a diabolical Superior if a few of them dying means the Superior will be offed. It might be a little harder to find demons willing to make kamikaze attacks on Archangels, but it could still be done. There is a quantum leap between "It's possible but difficult" and "It's theoretically possible, but with all the celestials willing to try it, it hasn't been accomplished in thousands of years." >>>Let's christen this "Large Fry" IN. I havn't ever played that way, but I can see it being an interesting world to explore.<<< It would be, just as playing Superiors would be interesting. But it's a vastly different setting than canonical In Nomine. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 08:33:29 EDT From: Gruzzle Subject: IN> Soldiers, Undead, You know... Question: The in-nomine book isn't very clear at all when it comes to soldiers and undead. Can anyone tell me what songs, attunements, distinctions, skills, etc. etc. a soldier can and can't learn? For example, I got the impression they were only able to learn corporeal songs... however, in one of the diabolical examples, Mathew's undead mummy decides to take the celestial song of healing. Any help is greatly appreciated. - -One confused little imp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 14:06:22 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Soldiers, Undead, You know... On Sat, May 16, 1998 at 08:33:29AM -0400, Gruzzle wrote: > The in-nomine book isn't very clear at all when it comes to soldiers and I think it's clear enough. Just terribly disorganised. > undead. Can anyone tell me what songs, attunements, distinctions, skills, etc. > etc. a soldier can and can't learn? > For example, I got the impression they were only able to learn corporeal > songs... Soldiers can learn Corporeal Songs. Undead can learn any type of Songs. My understanding is that Soldiers and Undead can all get any Servitor Attunements or Distinctions of the Superior they serve, though Distinctions are very rare, since it means they rank higher than many Celestials. Laurence also offers his Servitor Attunements to all Soldiers of God who deserve it, as the commander of the Armies of God. Saminga might do something similar with Undead serving other Princes, since their existence serves his Word. As for Choir/Band attunements, I don't think that's possible, because they resonate with the Choir/Band as well as the Word, though you might make an individual exception for something like the Habbalah of Death attunement. (Yes, I still find that attunement's existence and how it relates to Habbalah absolutely incomprehensible. And obviously that's only for Undead, since Soldiers can't learn Celestial Songs.) Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "If you let it get too far it would be the end of everything. You would have bicycles wanting votes and they would get seats on the County Council and make the roads far worse than they are for their own ulterior motivation." The Third Policeman, by Flann O'Brien. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 10:28:46 -0500 From: ehp Subject: IN> ehp is me >> >Wow. It was like skipping through alpine meadows, then being >> >slapped with a halibut. :> >> >> Just for the halibut... *ahem* Sorry. Lost a bet with Kobal, have to >> say things like that sometimes? (And a tip of the hat to ehp.) > >*Never* bet with Kobal. (ehp?) > Gratuitous game anecdote: Every time a DP shows up to chat in my pbem game, I have to resist the urge to do this. I have failed both times to date: DP makes bad pun... eg "Damned if I can do any better..." then offers as excuse "Sorry, lost a bet with Kobal a while back, which means I have to say things like that sometimes." :P ehp, aka Evangelos Hugo Paliatseas, aka Evan ps, ta for the hat tip, em, you big sweetie. :) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 11:19:02 -0500 From: ehp Subject: IN> Interventionist god >> yet no one complains that mortals are irrelevant in a fantasy campaign >> where gods exist. > >I do, and have, when the gods are too interventionist. "Mortal Pawns" >should not be aware of the fact. If they are, they should be able to do >something about it. (This is in fact another canonical fantasy Quest.) >If the players are merely helpless midges incapable of making a real >difference in a war between heavyhanded near-omnipotent forces, they tend >to get frustrated. > Or, rather, they can be aware of the fact, but that the gods themselves are limited too. Another Gratuitous Anecdote. I am running a low level fantasy game in GURPS in which one of the characters routinely summons up a major servitor of his god (named Israfil... thus IN tie in ;) Without consiquence. All players know they are being maniputalted by said entity, but they also know that he is on their side, a good friend to have, and has his (many) limits too. And that they can make a big difference. I think that intervention by higher powers is very fine. I personally prefer to have my PCs being the wild cards in a straight game of poker. Where every they show up, the normal sequence of events is somewhat rewritten. Draws attention to em, sure, but then both sides just wanna play 'em... And there is a big difference between power of the universe and too powerful. Don't forget your PCs are celestial entities, and not to be sneezed at themselves. I think the problem here is more in the system limits on PCs than the conceptual power levels. :) Evan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 16:00:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: IN> Tether Construction--Help Wanted! Hey all! I wanna make a tether to put on my webpage...and I could use some help! Anybody want to help me make a tether? I'm leaning towards the Angelic side, myself... Graveyard Greg, Malakite of Creation _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 21:06:25 +0900 From: Simon Hailes Subject: Re: IN> Tether Construction--Help Wanted! At 04:00 PM 16/05/98 -0700, you wrote: > >Hey all! I wanna make a tether to put on my webpage...and I could use >some help! Anybody want to help me make a tether? I'm leaning towards >the Angelic side, myself... > >Graveyard Greg, Malakite of Creation > > > >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > >Damn, I'm unrepentedly infernal, but if you need some help I'll be happy to contribute, just mind there may be a few diabolical twists.... Simon, Forever Damned and loving it > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 21:14:35 +0900 From: Simon Hailes Subject: Re: IN> Superior Slaying 101 At 07:57 AM 16/05/98 -0400, you wrote: >>My point was that if the Superior *is literally* some aspect of the >Symphony, as you wrote, killing them should kill that aspect.< > >It would be more accurate to say that a Superior is the literal embodiment >of some aspect of the Symphony. Obviously, Sloth still exists despite the >death of its Prince, and Knowledge still exists despite the death of >Raphael. You can't kill a _concept_. But those concepts that do have >celestial embodiments lend power to the embodiments...so if you are up >against Saminga, you're not just up against a Shedite with lots and lots of >Forces, you're up against a Shedite who is Death incarnate, and his might >is equal to the power of Death in the world.... if your PCs have anything >near that kind of power, then you play in seriously upscaled games, and I >say have fun, same thing I say to people who play AD&D with 67th level >Paladin-Magic-User-Cleric-Assassins with +32 Swords of Everything >Slaying... > >-David > >Hhehehe, I know what you mean via AD&D and ultrapowerful characters, in my game there is a Thri-keen level 9/9 Ranger, Psionicist with a permanent haste spell on him and two vorpal swords, needless to say he is very psycho. But to get around to In Nomine again but using AD&D examples (you started it David) taking on a Superior as a normal Celestial, even a strong and skilled celestail is like a 0-level NPC taking on a 10th level fighter, quite impossible as it would work out. Even being a powerful wrd-bound would be like a level 1-2 taking on the same, so i guess Haagenti just rolled a couple of natural 20's and Maserach rolled a 1. Oh yeah, about that whole Word changing discussion, though undoubtedly this has already beeen said, canonically words can be changed, IPG says so. Sure its as rare as an outcast Malakite but it can and most probably does, and what about Night Music where Furfur, the demon of Hardcore, asks to be the Demon Prince of Rock and Roll, why would he do that if he knew he couldn't change his word? I do agree with the premise that the word becomes very significant to said demon or angel, but then again people can get very attached to careers, or other people, but they can always sever ties and start anew, anyway its sunday morning and my dogs been terrorizing me again (stupid djinn) Simon, Demon Prince of Pearls "Busted!" common servitor of Asmodeus saying ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 19:57:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Titus 3 11 Subject: Re: IN> More Offing Superiors (Long) snip> > Jean may be crackling with the essential energies of the universe but if he > is summoned to a rubberised stone chamber far away from any power supplies > when he was already reeling from a nasty bout with Vapula's raygun ... and > then bound into a shard of glass... I don't think he would be laughing. "Hmmmm," thinks Jean, ArchAngel of Lightening, "another group of cocky servitors summoning me into a non-conductive room. I think I'll not go, and launch one of my new tacnukes at them...The Computer will aim just right...God I love the new Computer" (okay, I play IN way too much like Paraniao. But I am making a point) Jean just wont show up to your ritual! If you wont game modes, thats a big - -30 summoning mod for summoning Jean, and if he decided to show up, it would be in a big human vessel with about 144 body hits and tear the group into small pieces, and then laugh as the tacnukes EMP storm carresses his vessel... I think. AAs and DPs are -incomprehensible- they think on a different plane then a physical being or even lesser celestials. Their power is to great to deal with as a player, regardless of power, unless you think you can rid the world of lightening and the positive influences of technology, to name an example Enosh Malakite of Creation ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 20:07:44 -0500 (CDT) From: Titus 3 11 Subject: IN> Servants of the Game Howdy all, greetings and salutations I have an idea for a demon game I'm going to be running pretty soon, and wanted to run it by all you list types. Here goes, comments are -very- welcome. The group will be five demons, one of whom is a Servant of the Game. Every demon will be recieveing fairly regular communications from their immediate superior, and rare communications from their Prince (excluding the Servant of the Game, whos talks to his boss once a month, minimum). The Servant of the Game will get an audio recording from me of most of those briefings to use as he wants. In game, this represents the characters skill at information gathering. This arose from frustration in another demonic game where the Servitors of the Game were left clueless, despite a character who should have been able to get smut on people. Its (I find) difficult to spy on other PCs actions; this represents the Servitors skill. The more time he spends in game "snooping" the more, and more complete, recordings he gets. I might allow other characters similiar bennies at some point, but in this game he is the most intrigue minded character; he shines at it. This *might* extend to other secret things tthat other characters do; but that can usually be reolved in play w/o hooks like this. Like Isaid, this comes from frustration that a snoop character doesnt have the dirt he needs. However, it's also an idea I came up with late at night chatting on the IRC IN channel, so... Last note- BIG PLUG for the In Nomine IRC channel! Enosh Malakite of Creation ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 21:40:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Doubting Eric Subject: Re: IN> More Offing Superiors (Long) Enosh sez: > "Hmmmm," thinks Jean, ArchAngel of Lightening, "another group of cocky > servitors summoning me into a non-conductive room. I think I'll not go, > and launch one of my new tacnukes at them...The Computer will aim just > right...God I love the new Computer" > (okay, I play IN way too much like Paraniao. But I am making a point) And High Programmer Dom-I-NIC will make certain that you are happy, Citizen. Happiness is God's Plan. God is your friend. Happiness is mandatory. Dissonance is treason. In all seriousness, though, Paranoia hammers home (with pneumatic force, if neccessary) one very good point. Him who runs the game, makes the rules. And if that means Gab-R-IEL showing up with a brand new Plasma Cannon from R&D to enforce the rules, so be it. Enosh sez: > Jean just wont show up to your ritual! If you wont game modes, thats a big > -30 summoning mod for summoning Jean, and if he decided to show up, it > would be in a big human vessel with about 144 body hits and tear the group > into small pieces, and then laugh as the tacnukes EMP storm carresses his > vessel... He wouldn't laugh. That would be subjective. He would /calmly/ and /objectively/ tear the group into small pieces. Eric, Elohite of Orc. (Rah Elohim! Space Alien Angels unite!) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 04:06:53 +0100 (BST) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: IN> K.K. the Lilim Munchkin On Thu, 14 May 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Heh heh heh. Yes. Be careful killing the little green floozies. Sorry if this is a Well Known Fact, but has anyone else noticed that the Lilim of Haagenti in fact rule the universe by now? They find out what restaurants the local celestials like, sneak in with a job as chef, and start gathering those Geas/2. Three days later... Geas/6! Or save for a few years and hit 'em with the old Geas/648: "Kick Dominic up the arse". OK, so Celestials don't need to eat. But a lot of PCs do anyway. And they don't even get a Will roll to resist if I remember right. Never, ever live with a Lilim of Haagenti. Finally, where does Eli eat? Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:26:23 From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN>Demon Prince Auditions >---Simon Hailes wrote: > >> >Baal-Billy Zane (sorry but he was so cool in Demon Knight, and The >Phantom >> too!) > >Yay! Billy Zane! Baal - I normally stay away from these discussions and it's a poor thing to come back with after a long absence, but my first "anyone form anytime" (I know that's cheating) choice would be a younger Brian Blessed, even now I think he would kick most anyone;s butt, on the screen, stage of behind the bike sheds :) . [snipped] Oh, and for Asmodeus it has to be Ian Richardson. Regards, Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au May the Goddess shelter you in the palm of her hand until we meet again. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 23:27:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> K.K. the Lilim Munchkin On Sun, 17 May 1998, Steve Jessop wrote: > Sorry if this is a Well Known Fact, but has anyone else noticed that the > Lilim of Haagenti in fact rule the universe by now? They find out what > restaurants the local celestials like, sneak in with a job as chef, and > start gathering those Geas/2. Three days later... Geas/6! Or save for a > few years and hit 'em with the old Geas/648: "Kick Dominic up the arse". Yup, it's a nice ability. > OK, so Celestials don't need to eat. But a lot of PCs do anyway. And they > don't even get a Will roll to resist if I remember right. Never, ever live > with a Lilim of Haagenti. You get a Will roll to resist eating it, which most celestials will make. You also get a SECOND Will-2 roll to resist the geas when the little green thing tries to collect. And on top of it all, once she gets you with one geas, are you going to EVER go back there and eat again? Hell, no... > Finally, where does Eli eat? Earth. Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! And finally, a special message to \|/ ____ \|/ anyone who thinks I give a damn... ~@-/ oO \-@~ /_( \__/ )_\ \__U_/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:29:53 From: Peter Frederick Subject: IN>Book Reccommendation Dear List I just reread a book that is interesting from an IN perspective. "A Dangerous Energy" by John Whitbourne [ISBN0 575 05576 6]. It is the story a church magician in an alternate present/near future where the Protestant schism was crushed and Europe is largely ruled by the Church Universal. Anyone looking for another look at magi/summoners could do worse. Thanking you for your indulgence. Regards, Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au May the Goddess shelter you in the palm of her hand until we meet again. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 04:53:05 +0100 (BST) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: IN> "I'm off to Squick Baal Luv - Back fer Dinner!" On Fri, 15 May 1998, Kevin Walsh wrote: > If Superiors are not vast elemental forces, then how did one of them get > the idea that he could beat God? Simple. Apply the principle, originally proposed by a member of the Pro-Wimpy-Superior faction, that the PCs have a chance at anything they like if they try hard enough. Corollary: the PCs can potentially challenge God. On their own. Armed with a small fruit knife each. Or indeed between them. Now, the difficult part of the argument is attempting to justify why this also applies to the apostate Archangel Lucifer, together with his fallen third part of the heavenly Host (With Sundrie Flaminge Swordes). I would say that Lucifer is a sufficiently cool NPC concept to belong pretty much up at the power level of PCs. Others might disagree, in which case maybe the solution is to reduce God's stats a bit, to make Him softer. Perhaps 3/4/6 forces, with one or two unique songs, just to keep the PCs on their toes? > I'm pretty sure Furfur as written in Night Music before attaining > Princehood could off the average PC party by himself. Ahem. I'll lend you my players some time: Rule #1 (ish) is that 15 Force demons are never quite as hard as you thought they were going to be, especially when badly outnumbered by PCs who are trying hard. Steve, Demon of Player Characters Knowing Their Place. Oh Yeah, and S(obw)S. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 20:58:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Kim Foster Subject: Re: IN> K.K. the Lilim Munchkin A post to this reminded me . The target of a Lilm gets a Will roll to resist the Geas right? How does KK snag so many Celestials? Even Angels tend to have pretty good Wills and can pump essence into it if nessecary? Since the level is based on how hard it is for the Lilm to fullfill, it doesn't seem like this type of Geas woukld be to high in particular for a Lilm like KK (only a day in Trauma and infinite vessels.) or am I reading this totally wrong. I know violence doesn't solve all problems... But it sure feels good! Felicia:DS3:Vampire Savior ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 05:17:29 +0100 (BST) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Online On Thu, 14 May 1998, Scott Weber wrote: > Actually, I'll beg to differ here... as much as I admire SJG's products > (Anybody remember the Fighting Fantasy Gamebooks from way back? I still > HAVE those!), On a point of information, although SJG's products are indeed in many cases admirable, the Fighting Fantasy games aren't among them. They were written by The Other Steve Jackson, the one who started Games Workshop with Ian Livingstone. They were bought out before GW got really bad. Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 00:49:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Titus 3 11 Subject: Re: IN> "I'm off to Squick Baal Luv - Back fer Dinner!" > Simple. Apply the principle, originally proposed by a member of the > Pro-Wimpy-Superior faction, that the PCs have a chance at anything they > like if they try hard enough. > > Corollary: the PCs can potentially challenge God. On their own. Armed with > a small fruit knife each. Or indeed between them. > Now, if you give the PCs a fruit knife, God gets one to. Maybe even a large on.e Otherwise, he wont have a chance, and we wouln't want a *fight with God* to seem like a fixed fight, would we? Besides, the PCs will still win. They are, after all, PCs, who are special beings who shake the universe wherever they tread. No PCs can be less magnificent then that, or why play? Anyway, the basic attitude amongst the gaming community in my part of Berkeley(where I live :) is that it sounds like "if it has stats, you can kill it" syndrome. Quite often my angelic players accomplish nothing more as far as humanity need care then protecting an orphanage from being destroyed. Maybe they killed a few demonic vessels,and maybe they lost a few angelic ones. But their actions dont cause huge shake-ups very often; this is a cold war (well, at least until Revaltions V). The stats of a sSuperior dont matter; they 1)dont fight Servitors and 2)will win. if only 'cause theyve got more, bigger friends then you. Example - please forgive the tactical gaming analogy. A small fighter craft can destroy a huge, powerful, guns lurking from every turrent and marines waiting in every corridor - type shp, all by itself, with repeated attacks. But if it tries, it will be destroyed by fleets of the other crafts fighters, as well as the larger ships own power (yes, a fleet w/ only fighters and "big 'uns" is silly). The huge ship itself has one main source of power - whatever cause its fighting for. Even if hte ship is destroyed, that cause will replace it, or try to. PCs could, as part of a celestial war, perhaps be one of the many little beings that swarm over a Superior and destroy it. But that wouldnt usually happen, there are too many forces out there opposed to shifts in the balance of power. Furfur is exceptional because he became a Prince in moments, instead of years or decades or centuries of fighting. IMHBSO (in my humble but sleepy opinion) Enosh Malakite of Creation Wishes he had a word. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 01:10:43 -0500 From: "Scott Weber" Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Online > On a point of information, although SJG's products are indeed in many > cases admirable, the Fighting Fantasy games aren't among them. They were > written by The Other Steve Jackson, the one who started Games Workshop > with Ian Livingstone. > > They were bought out before GW got really bad. *blink* "Other" Steve Jackson??? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 01:16:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Titus 3 11 Subject: IN> IRC Anyone on the list 1) have operator status on the #innomine channel? and/or 2) have experience with the channel's history? Ie, past usage, users,etc? Thanks Enosh Malakite of Creation Wishes he had a word ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 14:08:40 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN>Book Reccommendation Stephen Donaldson has written a story called "Unworthy of the Angel", which is included in his collection Daughter of Regals. It's quite interesting, from an IN perspective, I think. Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! "Jag har känsla för feeling" - Dom Dummaste ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #782 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.