From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Jun 2 17:54:33 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA28403 for ; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:54:33 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id RAA16344 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:51:23 -0500 Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:51:23 -0500 Message-Id: <199806022251.RAA16344@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #804 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, June 2 1998 Volume 01 : Number 804 In this digest: Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP IN> Perception Re: IN> Perception Re: IN> Perception Re: IN> Role Levels Re: IN> Choirness question Re: IN> Attunment incompatibility? (Manaxiel) Re: IN> The Question of the Celestial Tongue Re: IN> Role Levels Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP Re: IN> Attunment incompatibility? (Manaxiel) Re: IN> Cthulhu in the Marches Re: IN> Perception Re: IN> My thoughts on the Celestial Tongues Re: IN> Attunment incompatibility? (Manaxiel) Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP Re: IN> Cthulhu in the Marches Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP IN> Movie Trailer: [Jurassic Parkish...] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:59:10 -0500 (CDT) From: redneck@txdirect.net (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP >> do i generate her as if she were free, with the nine Geas/3's, as >>if she had been a DP's Servitor, or as if she'd been with an AA all along? > >It depends on the character history. If she was Free before redemption, >then she'll still owe Lilith (and maybe others) some Geases. If she was >bound to a DP, then she doesn't *have* to have any outstanding Geases, >though it's fairly likely she'll have some, given Lilim psychology. > >In this one case, I'd allow Geases to count as normal Discord (worth >3/level) -- they are going to be owed to the demonic side, which makes >them unusually troublesome.... Absolutely not, at least not in my games. Leaving aside the fact that the IN book specifically states that Geasa are not worth -any- CPs, I as a GM would impose them according to the background of the character as a basic cost of playing a Bright Lilim- if I permitted a PC Bright Lilim at all. They are meant to be rare, I mean RARE. I can all too easily see a five-player group that submit six Bright Lilim characters. Redneck Kris Overstreet, web pages beyond belief http://www.txdirect.net/users/redneck - Redneck Gaijin Online http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/wlp/ - White Lightning Productions http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/dvpbem/ - In Nomine: Dark Victory PBEM http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/milkmaid/ - The Magnificent Milkmaid ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:00:21 EDT From: Whompa99@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP I created a bright lilim as if she had worked for the archangeal all along, you lose a little in that you don't have a choir attenument but for game balance purposes my group thought that was the best way. I made the character older but stated that she lost all demonic attunements when converted (bringing her to starting angell level) My 2 Cents Chris Berg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:09:18 +0200 From: "Jens Alm" Subject: IN> Perception Hello everybody! I have a little problem with the In Nomine rules concerning Perception. Now this might be me misreading the rules, but I've looked through the FAQ and I didn't find it. It's this thing with Perception you see. Humans (and for that part, moderately powerful celestials) in In Nomine seem to be more or less blind as bats. As their is no Search or Awareness skill, all rolls to spot something hidden, etc., are made against basic Perception. For an "above average adult" with a Perception of four, this means that he has a one in six chance to succeed (if my calculations work out correctly). With a Perception of three you have a one in twelve chance. I'm not asking if I'm "allowed" to change canon as I am fully aware of the unnecessity of such a question. In my campaign I've already included the two skills Awareness (for general, uncounscious Perception) and Search (for deliberate use of Perception) to deal with it. I'm just inquiring on the canon (or other people's) view on this. /Jens Alm med97jal@student2.lu.se http://www.efd.lth.se/~d95jal ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 20:29:43 +0100 () From: "David.Evans" Subject: Re: IN> Perception Jens Alm sic scribit: > Hello everybody! Salutations. :-) > I have a little problem with the In Nomine rules concerning Perception. Now > this might be me misreading the rules, but I've looked through the FAQ and > I didn't find it. Then ask away. That's what we're here for. > It's this thing with Perception you see. Humans (and for that part, > moderately powerful celestials) in In Nomine seem to be more or less blind > as bats. I think this is intentional within the system. Think of it as the natural way the vast majority of mundanes "short-circuit" their own perception to subconciously avoid dealing with realty as it actually is (eg., Celestials, Etherials, Other Occult strangeness (TM) et cetera) - shades of Kult are creeping into this description. > As their is no Search or Awareness skill, all rolls to spot > something hidden, etc., are made against basic Perception. Personally, I use automatic succeses as a GM in In Nomine as much as possible. Firstly, to avoid slowing things down too much, and secondly, to try and create more opportunities for *role*-playing instead of _roll_-playing where possible. I'd say that for an average human with a Perception of 2 or 3 I might give out a bonus to the roll of between one and three given their familiarity with what they're lokking for, the area they're looking in (missing things always seem to hide in the same places oddly enough) and any distractions or help they're getting. > For an "above average adult" with a Perception of four, this means that > he has a one in six chance to succeed (if my calculations work out > correctly). With a Perception of three you have a one in twelve chance. I'll take your word on the calculations. I have no wish to re-live my Certificate of Sixth Year Studies (Paper I) Permutations and Combinations theory again. > I'm not asking if I'm "allowed" to change canon as I am fully aware of > the unnecessity of such a question. In my campaign I've already included > the two skills Awareness (for general, uncounscious Perception) and > Search (for deliberate use of Perception) to deal with it. I'm just > inquiring on the canon (or other people's) view on this. Hmm. That reminds me of the Scan and Search skills used in Elric!, Stormbringer and Runequest systems (Chaosium Inc). Personally, I like that system. Also, I might be inclined to add on the *Level* at which a Celestial's *Role* is to perception (or an approriate bonus of whatever magnitude the GM feels is approriate) for noticing something that a Celestial of Mundane who does an appropriate job would tend to notice. For example, I might give additions to an Awareness or Search or general Perception Roll to notice say, an unusual set of syptoms in an injured victim if the said person was by profession a Doctor, Nurse, Paramedic or Medical Examiner/Forensic Pathologist. The same would go for an ex Viet nam vet noticing three inches of Sniper Rifle Gun jutting out of slightly ajar window or door. And so forth... There. That's my 23 penceworth for you. Be seeing you... David. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 15:42:21 -0400 From: Andrew Frades Subject: Re: IN> Perception Jens Alm wrote: > Hello everybody! > It's this thing with Perception you see. Humans (and for that part, moderately powerful celestials) in In Nomine seem to be more or less blind as bats. As their is no Search or Awareness skill, all rolls to spot something hidden, etc., are made against basic Perception. For an "above average adult" with a Perception of four, this means that he has a one in six chance to succeed (if my calculations work out correctly). With a Perception of three you have a one in twelve chance. > Yep, your calculations seem correct. > I'm not asking if I'm "allowed" to change canon as I am fully aware of the unnecessity of such a question. In my campaign I've already included the two skills Awareness (for general, uncounscious Perception) and Search (for deliberate use of Perception) to deal with it. I'm just inquiring on the canon (or other people's) view on this. As a GM I haven't had too many problems with this yet, most of my celestial players have realized the importance of a decent perception. As for mortals/soldiers/etc. I would say for you to give appropriate bonuses to perception rolls for noticing fairly obvious stuff. The other little thing you can do is not use perception rolls to notice stuff. Lets put it this way... Are the characters supposed to notice certain things in the story? Yes, then they do. No? then they do not. For those things that might be important or interesting but are not necessary to the story make a decision or require a roll. Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 16:22:24 -0400 From: neel@cswv.com (Neel Krishnaswami) Subject: Re: IN> Role Levels Earl Wajenberg wrote: > >How do you see celestials acquiring the family? > >You said "adoptive," but did you mean official >paperwork to that effect, or that the "family" is >a group of fellow celestials and Soliders all sticking >with the same cover story? > >Earl Yes. :) At low Role levels, your "family" is some (possibly forged) documents, with no actual warm bodies having a physical existence. Anyone checking up on your story is quite likely to discover the fact that these people can't seem to be found. At medium levels, it is probably the way you suggest, with celestials and Soldiers using a joint cover story. The people are there, but they are vulnerable to questioning by high Perception investigators. Seraphim and Mercurians would be particularly good at cracking this kind of cover, but even a mundane investigation could reveal that this family didn't have a teenage son six months ago. A very deep-cover celestial who needs an airtight Role can come to Earth in an infant Vessel, be adopted by unknowing human parents, and actually live out his life on Earth, building up an identity and connections the same way a regular human being does. It will take decades of work, but there is basically no breach in the cover story, and immortal spirits can afford to take the long view. Someone on the list once suggested that there are minor spirits used for this purpose -- who live out the life of that person until it is time for a powerful angel or demon to take over the Role. (Maybe Walter?) I believe that in canon, it's possible to implant a celestial in a fetal vessel, making even an adoption unneccessary, but I am somewhat ambivalent about that idea -- it's a little too close to virgin birth. (Thus it would have implications about celestial beliefs about Christianity that seem like more work than I want to deal with.) - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:08:32 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Choirness question At 1:39 PM -0700 6/1/98, Alloni Kramer wrote: >Okay, so the consensus seems to be that the whole thing is relatively open >and aboveboard, useable in the same points in conversation where you would >place "doctor" or "programmer" or "bread mold". Next question: How well >known are the Choir/Superior attunements? If someone meets an Ofanite of >Fire, does the little box which says "Immune to fire, heat, and radiation" >immediately light up in their head? How about the other attunements? If >you meet a servitor of Marc, would you know enough to ask them if they can >write binding contracts? If you're serving the same Superior, you know your fellows' abilities. If you're serving an allied Superior, you probably will know unless you're utterly new to Earth -- any attunements that might function in your home-base (Heaven/Hell), you'll probably know. Others you might. (The GM and player can discuss and agree, or use an INT roll or something.) If you're serving an associated Superior, you'll at least know dissonance conditions for the other celestial, and may know the abilities of your Choir/Band members (if you're the sort to hang out with your own kind) and those you're likely to hang out with (such as Kyriotates and Elohim, or Lilim and those yummy Djinn who want cuddling). Again, the GM and player can come to a conclusion based off the character's background, or INT can be rolled (perhaps at a small penalty). If you're serving a neutral Superior, you'll probably know rough dissonance conditions, and may know abilities if the GM thinks it fits your background. Or use an INT roll at a moderate penalty. If you're serving a hostile Superior, it depends on if you've been studying the 'enemy' or ignoring it as hard as possible. You'll know stereotypes (which are correct with Novalis -- peacepeacepeace -- and probably incorrect with Judgment -- pokerspined and closeminded and will lock you up if you twitch funny (harass some, yes, lock up... probably not)). You may know some of the more *irritating* abilities -- Kyriotates of Jean live in toasters, Kyrios of Jordi are like fleas. For subtle things, definitely INT, perhaps with a severe penalty, unless the GM thinks it would fit your background to know something. (Was imprisoned in a brothel of Lust for a month, say.) Backgrounds... Demons who hang out in Shal-Mari will probably know the tricks of Lust, Gluttony, and Dark Humor, since there are so many of those demons there. Free Lilim know the abilities of just about all their Bound sisters, at least in rough outline. (It's 'cause Band Attunements are hawked in the Guildhall.) Except Bright abilities. Servitors of the Game will know abilities of their Band, and have at least rough outlines of the abilities of all Hostile Superiors' Servitors. They also sometimes are well acquainted with Judgment abilities, for some funky reason. Must be because Fallen Judgies wind up there? Servitors of Baal may get briefings of the abilities of someone they're working with. They definitely get briefings on the abilities of the more militant Archangels' Servitors. Beleth and Blandine's Servitors are well acquainted with each other's abilties. Demons often make it a point to be able to recognize Malakim. Flaming Green Hands are Fire, throwing Hallmark Greeting Cards Of Doom is Creation. If you're in the Marches and someone sticks a sword over your shoulder and says "Guess Who," that's a Malakite of Dreams. Jean's have tech-toys, often. Angels of Michael and Laurence work together enough that they're pretty likely to know what's up. Michael's and David's are likewise likely to know what they're capable of. Judgment gets a full briefing on every subject of inquiry -- this adds up after a while. Seraphim and Cherubim are very likely to have at least general knowledge of angels of every other Archangel, while the other Choirs will have detailed knowledge of the abilities of their Choir. Judgment also sometimes has a lot of knowledge about Servitors of the Game -- perhaps Dominic redeems Game-Renegades? Ask a Servitor of Judgment about the dissonance condition of any other Archangel, and they can probably rattle it off by memory. Servitors of Destiny can look it up. Bright Lilim know everything they knew when they were dark, and are often *very* well acquainted with Malakim abilities. (It's hanging around and drooling at them all the time that does it.) Servitors of the Sword are often aware of the combat abilities of angels and demons. For more suggestions on what is known, check out the Resources section of the INC. (http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles -- go to Tips, Theories, Resources & Humor and look for Know Thy Enemy and Know Your Demons.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:45:49 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Attunment incompatibility? (Manaxiel) At 2:41 PM -0400 6/1/98, Robb Kidd wrote: > The errate for the _Liber Reliquarium_ reads: > >>>P. 124. > Manaxiel does not have the Seraph of Creation attunement (it is >incompatible with the Malakite of Lightning attunement). << > > And scour the list archives and scratch the noggin as I might, I >cannot find the reasoning behind this. Enlightenment, anyone? Manaxiel is a Malakite of Lightning. Therefore, he can have the Malakite of Creation attunement (maybe; there may still be a bit of fuzziness about whether this is allowed), but unless he's a Servitor of Creation, cannot have other-Choir attunements. The phrasing is fuzzy, though. [Yes, I know there are games where critters have been granted entirely wonky attunements -- Cherub of Fire with a Malakite of Creatoin attunement. Fine, dandy, etc. But not canon.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:36:14 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> The Question of the Celestial Tongue At 2:29 PM -0700 6/1/98, Graveyard Greg wrote: >---Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>>And there was a story bit with Gabriel speaking in the celestial >>>tongue, and her servitor replied in the same tongue while in >>>celestial form. >> >>Errata. Gabriel can speak it, no doubt. (She's an Archangel, >>after all.) Her Servitor cannot. Delete all reference to the >>Servitor using it. (www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/errata) > >Thank you, Elizabeth. You officially solved the problem. :) (And had solved it several moons ago, actually... O:> When things conflict, check errata for each book where it conflicts. If it still conflicts, then ask me about it or report it as errata, and I will happily bop over and flog it into something that makes sense.) (And, in cases involving the main book, Em and others will burn candles at the altar of the Second Edition. O;> ) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 16:47:39 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Role Levels A possible plot-hook involving Roles might center on the usually obscure celestials or Soliders who go around doctoring documents for celestials with mid-level Roles. If you've just come to Earth or just acquired a new vessel, one of the first things you might have to do is meet up with your Role-supplier. What if they don't show? What if your first job on Earth turns out to be investigating the disappearance of your Role-supplier? Or suppose you *are* the Role-supplier and the celestial you're supposed to supply doesn't show? There you are, a celestial cross between a cat-burglar and a clerk, supposed to play detective for a missing angel/devil. Of course, the skill sets of cat-burglar and clerk aren't that different from those of detective... Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:25:31 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP At 8:44 PM -0700 6/1/98, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: >okay, after being on the list for several months, i finally picked up In >Nomine, the Angelic Players Guide, the Infernal Players Guide, and the >relics book (not gonna even attempt that--i just know i'll mangle the >spelling) on Sunday; i'm alternately skimming over and reading closely (or >re-reading for further analysis). so far i have a few character concepts >forming in my mind, but the most appealing is that of a Bright Lilim. What *is* it with those silly little creatures? There's supposed to be probably less than a dozen... O;> > do i generate her as if she were free, with the nine Geas/3's, as >if she had been a DP's Servitor, or as if she'd been with an AA all along? Think of her background. Was she Free? Did she Bind? When did she Bind? If she was Free for a while, she'll probably have some Geases still upon her, probably owed to Lilith. She might have other Geases, just 'cause that's how Lilim work, but they are likely to be small (1-3) and owed to random demons. Skills will also depend on what she used to be. A Free will have the usual mishmosh. A Lilim of Nightmares would have few Celestial Songs. A Lilim of Baal will have Fighting out the wazoo, probably. Vessel(s) will also depend, probably, on her previous service. If she owes Geases, I, like Walter, would probably allow points to be taken for them. (1-3, depending on how big a Geas/who it's owed to. 6 points per level if you owe it to Lucifer, 5 if you owe to Kronos or Asmodeus. O;> ) For Bright Lilim Choir Attunements, check out the INC -- I'm sure it's around there somewhere. (A Resource?) Those are probably close to any official ones that might show up in the future... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 17:34:45 -0400 From: Robb Kidd Subject: Re: IN> Attunment incompatibility? (Manaxiel) Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 2:41 PM -0400 6/1/98, Robb Kidd wrote: > > Manaxiel does not have the Seraph of Creation attunement (it is > >incompatible with the Malakite of Lightning attunement). << > > Manaxiel is a Malakite of Lightning. Therefore, he can have > the Malakite of Creation attunement (maybe; there may still be a bit > of fuzziness about whether this is allowed), but unless he's a > Servitor of Creation, cannot have other-Choir attunements. Ah. A-ha. Right. All is clear now. I got caught up in the wording and wound myself silly trying to figure out what -about- the two attunements were conflicting specifically. I might suggest the errata read: "Manaxiel, being a *Malakite* of Lightning, does not have the *Seraph* of Creation attunement -- servitors of "A" in service to "B" are not granted attunements that B offers other choirs." [furrowed brow] Or something like that ... > [Yes, I know there are games where critters have been granted > entirely wonky attunements -- Cherub of Fire with a Malakite > of Creatoin attunement. Fine, dandy, etc. But not canon.) Serving the Archangels of Munchkins, no doubt. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:40:04 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Cthulhu in the Marches At 8:25 AM -0700 6/2/98, Gerry Mckelvey wrote: >if they have >the essence, then they can cross into earth. could pseudo-demons or devils >form from the collective unconscious of the marches? They could, but keep in mind that anything that comes out of the collective unconscious is probably weaker than the hungry Ethereals who already exist. Dread Cthulhu, in canon, probably gets hunted down by the Wild Hunt and eaten for the Essence it possesses. Don't let that stop you from putting it in your campaign, though. O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:54:42 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Perception At 9:09 PM +0200 6/2/98, Jens Alm wrote: >I'm not asking if I'm "allowed" to change canon as I am fully aware of the >unnecessity of such a question. In my campaign I've already included the two >skills Awareness (for general, uncounscious Perception) and Search (for >deliberate use of Perception) to deal with it. I'm just inquiring on the canon >(or other people's) view on this. In our game, the human Private Investigator has a Knowledge (PI) skill which he can use for Perception in appropriate situations. (Of course, he's got Perception 5 or 6 somehow anyway. But then, he's no 5-Force human.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 17:41:55 -0400 From: "Thomas J. Ladegard" Subject: Re: IN> My thoughts on the Celestial Tongues SienarFLT@aol.com wrote: > Your definition is a good one and I wouldn't argue with that (no cans of worm > opened there anyway). I was just wondering where the notion of encoding comes > from. The entry of Vassal of War doesn't mention it. As a matter of fact it > says that any angel within earshot can understand it, but they just can't > respond. There is no encoding going on as far as I can tell, that is unless > there is something in another book that I'm missing; I'm only looking at the > main rulebook right now. > > Thanks for the clarification BTW. Here you go. As far as I can find there are no restrictions on demons speaking angelic. Reference to emcoding concept: In Nomine, page 131, Distinctions: Vassal of War:"...Demons will recognise the tounge but will not be able to understand." - - Tom ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:05:06 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Attunment incompatibility? (Manaxiel) At 5:34 PM -0400 6/2/98, Robb Kidd wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >I might suggest the errata read: > "Manaxiel, being a *Malakite* of Lightning, does not have the *Seraph* >of Creation attunement -- servitors of "A" in service to "B" are not >granted attunements that B offers other choirs." > [furrowed brow] Or something like that ... I'll send something in... >> [Yes, I know there are games where critters have been granted >> entirely wonky attunements -- Cherub of Fire with a Malakite >> of Creatoin attunement. Fine, dandy, etc. But not canon.) > > Serving the Archangels of Munchkins, no doubt. Oh, any Servitors of the Archangel of Munchkins can get any other attunement they want, even those that depend on Choir Resonances they don't have. And Band Attunements. In fact, the AA of Munckins often gives those out as minor party favors... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:06:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP > At 8:44 PM -0700 6/1/98, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: > >okay, after being on the list for several months, i finally picked up In > >Nomine, the Angelic Players Guide, the Infernal Players Guide, and the > >relics book (not gonna even attempt that--i just know i'll mangle the > >spelling) on Sunday; i'm alternately skimming over and reading closely (or > >re-reading for further analysis). so far i have a few character concepts > >forming in my mind, but the most appealing is that of a Bright Lilim. > > What *is* it with those silly little creatures? There's > supposed to be probably less than a dozen... O;> Because most Lilim are not certifiably Insane, I think. In general. It's just not a thing decent, sane Lilim _do_. > > do i generate her as if she were free, with the nine Geas/3's, as > >if she had been a DP's Servitor, or as if she'd been with an AA all along? > > Think of her background. Was she Free? Did she Bind? When did she > Bind? If she was Free for a while, she'll probably have some Geases > still upon her, probably owed to Lilith. > > She might have other Geases, just 'cause that's how Lilim work, but > they are likely to be small (1-3) and owed to random demons. > [clip] Well, my vote is more then a little obvious. Play through redemption. Make a normal Lilim, with whatever and yadda, and then force her through it. Then again, this takes playing time and angst and all sorts of other fun things, but who wants to ROLE-PLAY! We wanna kill demons! > For Bright Lilim Choir Attunements, check out the INC -- I'm sure > it's around there somewhere. (A Resource?) Those are probably > close to any official ones that might show up in the future... *peer at character sheet* I don't see any Lilim attunements here anymore. No, what generally happens, I think, is that they get AN attunement of their Archangel, but no Lilim attunements. No Lilim attunements ever again. Choose whatever is appropriate and that becomes the default attunement she gets for free. And other Archangels are going to be really hard pressed to give her anything, because well, they didn't make her. Lilith did. It's like any other demon who went Bright - it will be a long time before they really trust her, and who knows, maybe she'll YoYo. This is how we treated it in Fiat, and I rather like this ruling. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 18:10:31 -0400 From: Robb Kidd Subject: Re: IN> Cthulhu in the Marches Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > [...] keep in mind that anything that comes out of the > collective unconscious is probably weaker than the hungry Ethereals > who already exist. Dread Cthulhu, in canon, probably gets hunted > down by the Wild Hunt and eaten for the Essence it possesses. [mild chuckle] Another thread tie-in ... If popular belief is any measure of an ethereal being's power, I'd imagine Cthulu gets knocked about by Godzilla and the Power Rangers on a regular basis. "I AM THE DREAD ELDER GOD! FEAR ME!" "Pfah, you're a squid. Sod off, you're making the couch smell like seafood. And quit hogging all the cushions." An ethereal with delusions of grandeur. Of course, most -tell- their followers that they are all-powerful, that's just good salesmanship, but maybe poor Cthulu actually believes it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:38:11 -0700 (PDT) From: -=|horsefly|=- Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Andrew Frades wrote: [snip what i had said] > In my opinion you are definitely making it way too complicated that figures! > :). My understanding is that you would make the character as if it > were a free and then give it an Angelic Superior. Done. it's the 9 Geas/3s that make things complicated, though, were i to generate a Free Lilim as a starting Bright. i've looked over the Geas-stripping in the IPG, and it sounds quite plainly unpleasant. explaining this to Mom were the character to run into her later would be similarly unpleasant (incidentally, i know "unpleasantries" make for high drama and role-playing, but right now they're complicating matters too much for me to handle in getting a grasp on the character). > Somewhere out there are a number of Bright Lilim attunements for the > various Superiors (non-canon, but good stuff) and some ideas as to how your > character might have been treated as it tried to redeem. I would look this > up, I think it is off of the SJgames.com IN site in the resources area. i know, thanks. as soon as i got the books and went to work Sunday night, i found the relevent pages (the non-canonical Distinctions of Lilith are also good), printed them, and fit them in the back of my book. now that i think about it, the Bright Lilim info belongs in the IPG, so i'll put it there in a minute. suffice it to say, i've got this area covered. :) btw, i'd like to commend and thank Leathal Weapon and Elizabeth McCoy for the amusing and informative additions to the IN universe. > All this aside I would talk to your GM before going too deep, they > might have other ideas. there is the heart of the matter, isn't it? problem: i have no current GM. in kind of a bind, aren't i? ;) -=|horsefly|=- "All I am after is a just life, at the end of which I can laugh as I die." --ARCADIA OF MY YOUTH, end credits lyrics ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:35:32 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP At 6:06 PM -0400 6/2/98, Emily Dresner wrote: >Bethwrote: >> At 8:44 PM -0700 6/1/98, -=|horsefly|=- wrote: >>> do i generate her as if she were free, with the nine Geas/3's, as >>>if she had been a DP's Servitor, or as if she'd been with an AA all along? >Well, my vote is more then a little obvious. Play through redemption. >Make a normal Lilim, with whatever and yadda, and then force her through >it. (And then there's me, who not only plays through this, but with several *years* of Geasa... And no, no points for them at all.) >> For Bright Lilim Choir Attunements, check out the INC -- I'm sure >> it's around there somewhere. (A Resource?) Those are probably >> close to any official ones that might show up in the future... > >*peer at character sheet* I don't see any Lilim attunements here anymore. >No, what generally happens, I think, is that they get AN attunement of >their Archangel, but no Lilim attunements. No Lilim attunements >ever again. Choose whatever is appropriate and that becomes the default >attunement she gets for free. Well, that's one thing you can rule. Last I saw, though, there were some Bright attunements in a future book. (Yes, I'm being evil, I'm citing futurecanon. Yves does it all the time, I'm sure.) But the Malakim of Archives aren't going to come and beat you if you rule that Lilim don't get special bennies 'cause they're created by Lilith. O;> >And other Archangels are going to be really >hard pressed to give her anything, because well, they didn't make her. >Lilith did. It's like any other demon who went Bright - it will be a long >time before they really trust her, and who knows, maybe she'll YoYo. Right. Definitely. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:52:21 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Movie Trailer: [Jurassic Parkish...] [Disclaimer: I haven't seen Lost World, and it's been a while since I saw the original... However. My own sequal. (I'm taking a few liberties with attunements, but why should Fire have *all* the smiting fun, eh?)] NARRATOR: SCIENCE IS CAPABLE OF MIRACLES... The scene from _Jurassic Park_, where he's holding the baby velocipraptor and it's looking cute. Someone plucks the can of stolen dino-samples from next to a mangled hand (the guy who got munched by the cute little spitters). Evil Scientist Type, speaking from "off-screen" while a hand puts vials into a machine: "They're a bit old, but I think the DNA can be salvaged. And then I think we'll show those idiots who wanted a *theme park*... Oh, yes, we'll show them what *we* can do." Rows of glass tanks with fetal dinos (mostly predators) curled in them, and/or incubation cases with eggs. Large eggs. NARRATOR: ...BUT SOMETIMES YOU NEED THE REAL THING. A collection of humans fleeing from a pair of Tyrannasaurs. The Rexes have strange metal plates embedded in their heads, giving them a mildly cyborged appearance, and are a little clumsy and/or distracted. However, they are definitely closing on all the nice little crunchies in front of them. One of the fleeing humans trips (attractive guy, with a camera -- he's been taking pictures of the dinos from time to time; his name is Jake), and one of the Rexes is closing in. Suddenly, a winged creature flashes past its nose, distracting it. It turns its head, fangs gaping, and gets a facefull of lightning-bolt. [Cue SFX.] Jake, talking to a trio of people who are wearing interesting amounts of leather: "Let me get this straight. He's Zeke," (points to one of the three, male), "she's Bianca, and you're Ash." The last-pointed-at of the trio, an attractive woman, nods. "That's us." Jake: "I was being chased by a Tyrannasaurus Rex." Ash: "That's right. The newspapers will say the same thing." Jake, continuing: "And they were released by a mad scientist." Ash: "Well, that's what we've figured is going on. The original scientists don't seem to know where these came from." Jake: "And you're angels." Ash, grinning hugely: "Yep!" (The background pair look at her, each other, and sigh.) She continues: "We're here to save you from a demonic plot. And the dinos, of course." Jake: "You know, that's kind of hard to believe." Obviously changing tracks, he pulls out a pen and notebook. "Can I get an exclusive interview here?" A balding, *very* "Mad Scientist" looking gent, staring at a newspaper. He brings his fists down on the table, shouting, "ANGELS!" He stabs a button, and then yells into the intercom, "Jones, get me those meddling angels!" Finally, he glares at the newspaper again (which is being closed in on, to show that it's one of the Weekly World News types, and has a lurid (but surprisingly unfaked) picture of a winged humanoid doing a zap-zap to a dino). The man mutters: "You may have stopped me once, but this time... this time it will be different." Jake, being held against a wall by a thuggish sort. "So, tell me about those angels you interviewed," the thug suggests. Jake: "Well, one of them's right behind you." Thug is coshed upside the head by Ash. Ash, dragging Jake away: "I don't believe you ran that story! Didn't we tell you that there were demonic agents involved?" Jake, gasping: "Freedom of the press!" Ash: "Freedom to get yourself killed, Jake! You're just lucky I was looking for you to yell at you." NARRATOR: BUT SOMETIMES EVEN MIRACLES AREN'T ENOUGH. The group is fighting a pack of Velociraptors (again, with metallic plates in their heads) in a warehouse-type place -- while Jake clutches a camera and hides atop a bunch of battered crates, Zeke and Ash are hovering in the air, wings beating, and doing zap-zap things. Bianca is doing swoop-and-hack things with a sword. One of the dinos scores a lucky hit on her wing, and then she's being mobbed. Zeke and Ash dive to help her, and the dinos turn on them as well. Zeke is dragged under, and Ash emerges, dragging a mangled Bianca and herself up against a crate. A 'raptor is closing in on them, when it's hit in the head with a camera. Ash darts around the crate and gets herself hidden (probably under a conveniently empty one) before the dino recovers. Jake is climbing down from his crates while Ash and Bianca emerge. While Ash does healing type things to Bianca, Jake says, "I don't get it. Why did they leave?" Ash, voice tired: "I don't know, but they took Zeke with them." The floor is littered with busted crates, dead dinos, lots of blood, and scattered bloody feathers. Zeke, battered and bloody, is leaning against a clear wall, obviously in a cell of some kind. He calls out: "We were friends once!" Mad Scientist's voice: "Zeke, Zeke, Zeke... You were trying to hold me back. You never wanted me to succeed." As Zeke shakes his head weakly, the voice continues, "Well, Zeke, I've got new friends now..." Jake, to Ash: "You want *me* to go into this, this lair of demons, pretend to be on their side, and rescue Zeke while you're blowing the place up?" Ash: "Roughly. Mostly, we want the diversion." NARRATOR: AND THEN IT'S UP TO ONE SMALL, INSIGNIFICANT HUMAN... Jake, in front of a bunch of thugs: "Hey, like, I'm with the press?" Holds up somewhat dino-chewed camera. "See?" Mad Scientist facing Jake across a table. "You want an... interview." Jake, sitting on table and holding pen and paper: "You got it. So, how'd you get the idea for the dino-stuff?" Mad Scientist: "You're working with those angels, aren't you?" Jake: "More like they were blackmailing me. Frankly, I'm not so sure they're *angels*, if you know what I mean." Mad Scientist, slyly: "So you wouldn't mind watching one be eaten by a Tyrannasaurus Rex?" Jake: "Man, I'd pay *money* to see that." He regards his battered camera. "Got any film?" NARRATOR: ...TO SHOW ANGELS WHAT MIRACLES ARE ALL ABOUT. Jake hauling wreckage away from where Zeke is caught in it. Explosions are going on all around. Jake's shouting, "So somebody's the diversion and somebody's supposed to rescue you." Zeke, weakly: "Did she mention you could die if you don't get out in time?" Jake: "I figured that out myself." Jake and Ash, in what looks like a control room. There are alarms going off. Jake: "You want *me* to push the button that will blow everything up??" Ash: "The boss doesn't mind us making some noise from time to time, but taking out over fifty humans and about a hundred rampaging dinos... Well, that's a little out of our budget." Jake: "But it's okay if I do it??" Ash: "Yup." She pats him on the shoulder. "But you gotta do it all by yourself." Jake: "Um. Promise I get an exclusive interview afterwards?" Ash: "Sure. If we live." fade to black, title comes up <> Jake: I didn't think angels were such good kissers... Ash: Hey, we get inspired sometimes. emccoy@nh.ultranet.com, Uppity Wynch http://brie.bmsc.washington.edu/people/merritt/books/Eye_of_Argon.html "rumoured to contain hoards of plunder, and many young wenches" Mike [falsetto]: "We're tired of these degrading patriachical slurs! From now on we demand to be called 'wynchys.'" ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #804 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.