From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Jun 3 11:53:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA24139 for ; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 11:53:12 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id LAA01556 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 3 Jun 1998 11:48:41 -0500 Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 11:48:41 -0500 Message-Id: <199806031648.LAA01556@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #805 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, June 3 1998 Volume 01 : Number 805 In this digest: IN> Plotseeds: Cats of Enigma IN> The Death of Michael Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP Re: IN> My thoughts on the Celestial Tongues [Fluffy apologies] IN> Placing credit IN> The Marches Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP Re: IN> The Death of Michael IN> Roleplaying vs Roll-playing (was Re:Perception) Re: IN> Oh, and I almost forgot... IN> rules question Re: IN> rules question Re: IN> The Marches IN> Delusions of Grandeur (Was: Cthulhu in the Marches) Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP Re: IN> Cthulhu in the Marches Re: IN> Choirness question IN> delusions ect... IN> Arthurian legend and other questions Re: IN> Arthurian legend and other questions Re: IN> Arthurian legend and other questions Re: IN> The Death of Michael Re: IN> rules question Re: IN> Arthurian legend and other questions Re: IN> Arthurian legend and other questions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:00:23 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Plotseeds: Cats of Enigma Cats of Enigma ============== (Can be used as singletons, or a litter...) [Another "Weird Dream Special"] One day, a litter of kittens is born. One (or several) of them have...odd powers. They have at least one extra Force (for cats), as Kyrios will discover if they try to possess one. (Add to Ethereal first, probably, and any additional probably should be in celestial.) The GM will have to decide what Power caused the Cats of Enigma to come into being... Some potentials: * This is what happens when a pregnant mama-cat hangs around Eli's apartment and eats his tablescraps. * This is a Vapulan plot. * An Outcast of Lightning/Renegade of Technology has taught someone far more genetic engineering than is good for either of them. * The cats are "Children of the Grigori" -- from a tomcat vessel. (Unless mamacat isn't around, in which case, who knows which parent was the culprit?) * The cats are half-breeds with ethereal parents. Suspect Bast, perhaps trying to establish a breed of worshippers? (If they have Intelligence 2, Precision 2, they're pretty darned smart for cats... Maybe their intelligence will be additive in future generations.) * This is some ploy of Lucifer's. * This is some ineffable result of a Divine Intervention. Somewhere. The kittens each have an ability (or the GM can give the same ability to all, whatever), which generally comes with drawbacks... Selfish Healer - -------------- This little calico flirt bonds primarily with one human. (GM gets to decide who it is. A reaction roll may or may not be appropriate.) From that day on, anytime the person is hurt, the cat will strive to be with her person -- and after a few minutes of cuddling and purring, the human will be healed of all damage! While the cat and human's stored Essence is lost, it does not disturb the Symphony, nor does it seem to *require* Essence to activate this ability. (It may take a few *hours* without "enough" Essence, though. GM's whim.) The downside is that for hours equal to healed Body Hits, the human acquires Discord-like symptoms -- usually something like Angry, Paranoia, or other rather snappy, self-centered and hostile emotions. The only being who is spared the brunt of this is the cat, who purrs constantly during this period. Others may get paranoid about the personality shift, and think that the catling is drawing the subject down the path to selfishness. (After all, there are few things more selfish than a cat.) What they might not easily discover is that bloodtests "before" and "after" will reveal that the human's hormone system is thrown out of whack by the healing -- chemically, the brain is being told that it's enduring the PMS case from hell. (Literally? Only the GM knows for sure!) The purring of cats (*any* cats!) will sooth this somewhat, which is what keeps the little calico from being drop-kicked... After the brain's biochemistry swings itself back to normal, the Discord-like effects fade. (For the purposes of many Band attunements, treat the temporary effects as Discord.) Fortuneteller - ------------- A simple brown tabby, who likes to play fetch. However, what it fetches *unbidden* is sometimes very strange -- though always something a cat could carry or drag from around the house. It rarely, if ever, finds an item that nobody can figure out the origins of. ("My neighbor's garter belt!") The item usually pertains to some discussion that's going on around it, which will involve future events. If the item is used (and the timing with which it is *presented* usually makes it crystal clear how/where the item should be used!), then the PCs will be moved favorably towards their goal -- though other people may or may not be damaged along the way. ("Why should we bring this camera with us when we talk to so&so? Oh. We can take blackmail photos of him and his secretary...") The drawback? If the item is *not* used, the goal cannot be achieved through that path! PCs develop more bad luck than they know what to do with, people they need to talk to die, etc. Talking about a different approach around the Fortuneteller will usually result in being presented with another item, though... [These were all that were in my dream. Any more?] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:44:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: IN> The Death of Michael In the cirrent In Nomine campaign I am running, Michael is DEAD. Kaput. Finished. Deleted. So, what happens to the servitors of War? If they choose to continue to serve War, how can they? Their archangel is dead! What are the rules for Angelic Orphans. IS there anything on angelic orphans? Oh, and by the way, Gabriel is completely bonkers and wants to start the War, Thor is back, and Baal is PISSED! The Battle for Armageddon is comin' people! Pity my players! Graveyard Greg (and NO, I did not set out to kill Michael...but that's the way the storyline happened to go. Very dramatic.) _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:22:17 -0700 (PDT) From: -=|horsefly|=- Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Walter Milliken wrote: i'd written: > > do i generate her as if she were free, with the nine Geas/3's, as > >if she had been a DP's Servitor, or as if she'd been with an AA all along? > It depends on the character history. If she was Free before redemption, > then she'll still owe Lilith (and maybe others) some Geases. If she was > bound to a DP, then she doesn't *have* to have any outstanding Geases, > though it's fairly likely she'll have some, given Lilim psychology. alright, this simplifies things some, which is what i think i was hoping for. thanks. > In this one case, I'd allow Geases to count as normal Discord (worth > 3/level) -- they are going to be owed to the demonic side, which makes > them unusually troublesome.... this makes sense, and i can see it being quite amusing. do players who have generated Lilim in the past detailed whom their Lilim owes what, what was done for her, and how long ago? i haven't read everything yet, but is there a trait within to the effect of "eidetic memory," or do Celestials have that as a perk of their nature? -=|horsefly|=- "It was a different time: a time of blood and guns and killings.... It was a time when killers needed saints, for so much of God's good work was being done." --SAINT OF KILLERS #4, Garth Ennis ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:27:42 -0700 (PDT) From: -=|horsefly|=- Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Redneck Gaijin wrote: [heavy snippage] > Leaving aside the fact that the IN book specifically states that Geasa > are not worth -any- CPs, I as a GM would impose them according to the > background of the character as a basic cost of playing a Bright Lilim- i quite agree with you here, and i thought i was forgetting something when i replied to the last post, so let me state here that i didn't expect CP for any Geases with which the character would begin gameplay. > if I permitted a PC Bright Lilim at all. They are meant to be rare, I > mean RARE. I can all too easily see a five-player group that submit six > Bright Lilim characters. absolutely. you and the IPG have suitably brought that point across. i wasn't aware that there was a recent deluge of Bright Lilim questions or comments, sorry. -=|horsefly|=- "Damn it, Senator! You promised me these men would be decently treated." "The were decently treated: they were decently fed... and then they were decently shot." --Fletcher and the Senator, THE OUTLAW JOSEY WALES ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 20:11:14 EDT From: SienarFLT@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> My thoughts on the Celestial Tongues [Fluffy apologies] In a message dated 98-06-02 18:04:27 EDT, you write: > Here you go. As far as I can find there are no restrictions on demons > speaking > angelic. Reference to emcoding concept: > > In Nomine, page 131, Distinctions: Vassal of War:"...Demons will > recognise the > tounge but will not be able to understand." > > > - Tom Okay, here it goes folks, pay attention. It's rare that it happens at all and hopefully it won't happen again: a teacher who is trying to pull his rather large and smelly foot from out of his mouth, but for once here it goes. Errf! There. Okay I'm done. Hmm, how many times have I told my students to pay attention to the instructions? But hey, I get it now. I honestly get it! Sorry for my gross misunderstanding of that whole topic! ...and now back to your regularly scheduled programming... -- Thom. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 21:30:21 -0700 From: Drake Subject: IN> Placing credit Ok, in regards to a suspicion that I might have tried and ripped someone off in regards to the Word Forces, I have researched back to when I very FIRST started work on stats for Superiors and back to my very first post and went thru every single In Nomine digest since looking for info on Word Forces and how they came about so I could put them here and show the one that hinted at my sposed stealing and to show the rest if they have any doubts, about how the concept for Word Forces came about and the ones that deserve the credit for it. So here goes... Well with the Word Force its self, back in feburary 22, in the In-Nomine Digest #638, I initially came up with the idea about trying to represent a Superior's Word in their stats, but I had it as simply translating over into things like Attunements and such.. Then on Feb 25, in the In-Nomine Digest #645, Walter Milliken touched on that a lot of a Superior's Forces are tied up in their Word and that there should be some other mechanics to describe about how a Superior's Word would interact and relate to various things. Later on, on Feb 25, in the In-Nomine Digest #647 I came to the idea about making the Word Forces, but I had them range from 1-100 and had no characteristics at the time, and it was shortly after this that I lowered Word Forces to 1-12 as per regular Forces for Superiors. And it was from Beth in the In-Nomine Digest #649 on Feb 26 that I got the inspiration to have Word Forces capable of letting the Superior break the rules sometimes, by her stating that sometimes Superiors can break the rules in regards to Dissonance. And finally it was on Feb 27, in the In-Nomine Digest #652 that I finally developed my ideas for characteristics for the Word Forces, which became Sense and Resonance. So as you can see, Walter inspired me to with the idea for Word Forces in which I developed and Beth gave me the inspiration for the characteristics and what they should do for the Word Forces. If anyone has any doubts about this you can easily look thru the backlogs of the Digests and find the specific posts relating to them. And in regards to the development of the other various powers for Superiors, Legends and Lore, Wrath of the Immortals, and several other such pre-existing materials first gave me the inspiration and SOME of the initial material to actually attempt making stats for the Superiors in In Nomine, back in January.. I went thru a month of work and refining before I posted my results on the list. After that, nearly everyone on the list gave suggestions for developing the powers of the Superiors.. including Walter which did give alot of the suggestions I used in refining my work. There were too many people that gave me ideas and suggestions and tips and such for me to list.. simply because I don't feel like going thru the Digest again and writing down everyone's names. But if anyone else thinks that I'm stealing their stuff then by all means I will go thru the Digest once again and put down the name, date, and digest and even time I received the Digest for each every little thing I have posted to this List. Anyway, 'nuff said, any more complains, then email me.. I don't like it being hinted at that I am a thief, stealing other's material and taking the credit for myself.. I don't do that. If I use soemthing from someone else I give credit. The reason why I didn't give credit to my stats for Sups is that I never intended for the work to be mine.. I wrote it and put it on this list in an effort to develop an optional system for applying stats for Superiors for anyone to use at their whim, and not for my own personal gain. Drake ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:46:18 -0700 From: "Gerry Mckelvey" Subject: IN> The Marches Hmm...the Marches are a NASTY place then... I suppose that's why the critters there got 'purged' for thier troubles. I really did like the potential of the sorcerer tho. Soldiers in the War that don't think they've been drafted...now if I could just get my players interested in running one...nobody seems to want to be one of the 'grunts'. They all want to be either an Angel or a Demon. And the most favorite critter here seems to be Malakim...which would make for a very active workout of the combat rules, I would think.... Jerry McKelvey Exitus Acta Probat. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 05:31:57 +0100 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP At 16:27 02/06/98 -0700, you wrote: > >> if I permitted a PC Bright Lilim at all. They are meant to be rare, I >> mean RARE. I can all too easily see a five-player group that submit six >> Bright Lilim characters. > absolutely. you and the IPG have suitably brought that point >across. i wasn't aware that there was a recent deluge of Bright Lilim >questions or comments, sorry. Hey, don't apologise. The idea was new to you when _you_ thought of it! RPing through redemption is cool if the other players and GM want to follow that plot thread along but if they don't then it might really make more sense to either start as a bright (I like the idea of not having any attunements actually) or just pick another choir IMO. It would be fairly simple to design a PC that was a demon which redeemed but owes geases to Lilith (perhaps she helped it to shatter it's heart). Given that it seemes quite common for people to want to play them, maybe that canon about there only being a handful could be interpreted as a .. cthulhu-style handful ;) My feeling on the numbers of redeemed around, and the view I've been taking IMG, is that they should be inversely proportional to how 'far' that choir needed to go in order to redeem. So the most numerous would be redeemed Mercurians and the least numerous (maybe only 5 or 6 throughout recorded history) would be redeemed Seraphim. By that reckoning there might be more redeemed Lilim than most people think, but it's kept quite quiet. jo ps. RPing angst is fun for the person who is doing it. Torturing demons is fun for all the family ;) "Whatever was required to be done, the Circumlocution Office was before hand with all the public departments in the art of perceiving HOW NOT TO DO IT." -- Dickens (Little Dorrit) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 05:34:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Casca Subject: Re: IN> The Death of Michael On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Graveyard Greg wrote: > In the cirrent In Nomine campaign I am running, Michael is DEAD. > Kaput. Finished. Deleted. Micheal, meet Yves, the dead Superior in my campaign. > So, what happens to the servitors of War? > > If they choose to continue to serve War, how can they? Their archangel > is dead! Brief synopsis of part of my campaign, _Dies Irae_: Yves dies fighting an emergent (and quite insane) Gebbeleth and the end of Feast of Blades. Nothing is left of Gebbeleth, and Yves is destroyed save for 1 Word Force. No mind or body or personality, and only a sliver of his power remains. As the Host assembles, shocked, Blandine appears, and takes the Force into herself -- not to consume it, but protect it. She explains that Dreams include Hope, and by taking what is left of Yves into herself, she will nurture the hope that he will someday recover. Until that time, she will care for the servitors of Destiny as if they were her own, for, in a way, they -are-: Destiny is now wholly dependent on Dream for survival. Blandine grants her highest distinction to the Yves-fragment, and through that link she is able to support servants of Destiny. She answers their summons, grants them Essence through the use of Destiny rites, grants them attunements, etc etc. This will continue until Yves recovers and can reclaim his place as an Archangel. "And he -will- recover," she adds. "It is his Destiny." Depending on the circumstances of Micheal's death, maybe something similar can be worked here. > What are the rules for Angelic Orphans. IS there anything on angelic > orphans? APG, I would imagine. Somewhere. > (and NO, I did not set out to kill Michael...but that's the way the > storyline happened to go. Very dramatic.) Heh. Yep, that's how it happened with me as well. ;) Sometimes the best stuff is totally improvised. - -- Casca, Seraph of Archives (bertishg@db.erau.edu) "...I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of His robe filled the temple. Above Him were seraphs, each with six wings: with two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying...At the sound of their voices the doorposts and thresholds shook, and the temple was filled with smoke." -- Isaiah 6:2,4 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:53:42 +0200 From: "Jens Alm" Subject: IN> Roleplaying vs Roll-playing (was Re:Perception) David Evans wrote: [SNIP] >> It's this thing with Perception you see. Humans (and for that part, >> moderately powerful celestials) in In Nomine seem to be more or less blind >> as bats. > >I think this is intentional within the system. Think of it as the >natural way the vast majority of mundanes "short-circuit" their own >perception to subconciously avoid dealing with realty as it actually is >(eg., Celestials, Etherials, Other Occult strangeness (TM) et cetera) - >shades of Kult are creeping into this description. > Ah Kult, gotta love those nepharites. It's a Swedish game originally btw. However, when it comes to perception I was not thinking about the "perceiving the symphony" part but ordinary, mundane perseption. Finding a missing piece of evidence or something like that. >> As their is no Search or Awareness skill, all rolls to spot >> something hidden, etc., are made against basic Perception. > >Personally, I use automatic succeses as a GM in In Nomine as much as >possible. Firstly, to avoid slowing things down too much, and secondly, >to try and create more opportunities for *role*-playing instead of >_roll_-playing where possible. I'd say that for an average human with a >Perception of 2 or 3 I might give out a bonus to the roll of between one >and three given their familiarity with what they're lokking for, the area >they're looking in (missing things always seem to hide in the same places >oddly enough) and any distractions or help they're getting. [SNIP] I too like roleplaying more than roll-playing, however, I feel the line has to be drawn somewhere (where you draw it is a personal decision, our opinions probably differ on this). I've tried diceless roleplaying and I didn't like it. The problem, as I see it, is twofold. One problem (sometimes) is that the role of the character is diminished to further the story. In many games, heavy on the storytelling part, it seems to me as if the characters abilities are pointless, it's all acted out between the GM and the players anyway. Of course this might do the trick for some people, but not for me. The other problem I find when I GM diceless (or very "dicelight") is all the petty decisions I have to make. I feel distracted when I have to decide whether or not people succeed with every single action, it draws my attention from the plot of the adventure. Again, this is the way I work, not necessarily the way it must be. In my opinion, here are four factors influencing whether or not a characters action should succeed: * The character's abilities * The player's actions * The plotline * Chance The trick is, of course, to strike the right balance between these four. Different gamemasters have different opinions on where the balance lies, as do gamedesigners, so you can't make an easy formula out of it. However, a good GM should be able to find the balance for his group. In my group, I have found that balance to include quite a bit of chance and quite a bit of character ability. Maybe this discussion belongs to rec.games.design or rec.games.frp.misc. [Snipping comments on Search and Awareness that I generally agree with] /Jens Alm med97jal@student2.lu.se ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 13:05:33 +0100 (BST) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: IN> Oh, and I almost forgot... On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Pee Kitty wrote: > > what's to stop a demon from walking up to some angel he's found out > > about, sticking out his hand, and saying, "Hi! Frankiel, Cherub of > > Novalis. Niceta meetcha."? > The chance that one of the angels is a Seraph, or has an insanely high > Detect Lies skill. Other than that, nothing. In a one off, I played an Impudite of Kobal pretending to be a Mercurian of Eli. Two things helped me: first it was a 'special mission', so the PCs were all called together by a Large Bloke (TM), and we didn't have to *prove* our identities. Second, I had the help of Kronos, so I was actually imitating a real angel who used the same name as I did. (A bit like good/evil twin, I suppose.) In the course of an evenings gaming, I lied precisely twice. The first was pretty innocuous, and was to cover the fact that I had nipped off to rescue a demon from the Malakite hit squad. The second was when a member of that hit squad turned up in his second-best vessel, and admittedly that lie was 'I am not a demon'. Luckily, no Seraphim in the party (my lying skill would have dealt with detect lies), but they still weren't entirely convinced by my (true but misleading) explanation of why Johnny Malakite thought I was a demon. If we hadn't been in the middle of Armageddon DefCon 3, however, I wouldn't have had to lie at all. So the answer is, don't say 'Hi, I'm Frankiel, Cherub of Flowers'. Say 'Hi, I'm Frankiel'. Then do something obviously Cherubic, like dive in front of a bus to save a dog, or play a video game for a day solid. Then do something obviously flowery. Then name-drop Novalis once or twice. You get the idea. Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:24:07 -0700 From: "Gerry Mckelvey" Subject: IN> rules question I was reading the Heaven/hell sourcebook yesterday and I have a question. Most of the In Nomine stuff sorta dances around the question about if mortals could accquire Angelic/Demonic forces and become a Celestial...Would it be possible for some of the famous dead of either place to become the 'nucleus' of an Angel or Demon? Would they retain thier mortal memories? Also, I don't know if anyone has ever heard of the series of books that were around a few years ago called 'Heros in Hell' (I think that was the title, but i'm not sure..). the books were about various souls consigned to hell and what happened to them after death. the short stories were all written by various authors, so the quality kinda varied, but it's given me some terrific ideas about how Hell could be run...I thought Macheveli's fate was very appropriate... anyway, just some random thoughts... Jerry McKelvey Exitus Acta Probat. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:58:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> rules question > I was reading the Heaven/hell sourcebook yesterday and I have a question. > Most of the In Nomine stuff sorta dances around the question about if > mortals could accquire Angelic/Demonic forces and become a > Celestial...Would it be possible for some of the famous dead of either > place to become the 'nucleus' of an Angel or Demon? Would they retain > thier mortal memories? Technically, no. Somewhere in the mass of rulebooks (I'm to the point of looking at my coffee right now, and my braincells haven't been jumpstarted) it says flat out that no human ever becomes a Celestial. Oh, a Demon Prince might take a dead human, strip it down to 5 component forces, and use those to build a brand new demon. The Demon might even retain some of the original force's memories. Maybe. But no human ever becomes a Celestial. There is a way around this, of course. Sainthood/Undeath - 7 or 8 Force humans who keep doing their saint thing and dwelling in the lower heavens. Now, I find Sainthood a cool concept in Night Music, but for various reasons it is pretty broken. I've given some thought on it, but that, I think, is for another time and place. > Also, I don't know if anyone has ever heard of the series of books that > were around a few years ago called 'Heros in Hell' (I think that was the > title, but i'm not sure..). the books were about various souls consigned > to hell and what happened to them after death. the short stories were all > written by various authors, so the quality kinda varied, but it's given me > some terrific ideas about how Hell could be run...I thought Macheveli's > fate was very appropriate... Sure. They came out several years ago, if memory serves. - - Em Current Quote: How can you say, "We are wise and the law of the LORD is with us," when, in fact, the false pens of the scribes has made it into a lie? - Jeremiah 8:8 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:01:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> The Marches > Hmm...the Marches are a NASTY place then... Yes and no. It depends on where you are at in the Marches, how close you are to a Tower, and who you have run into. Some of the old Gods might not be too bad, but on the other hand, some might just rip you to shreds. And some have morphed with the minds of mankind over thousands of years, and are no longer what you expect. Or worse, they HAVEN'T morphed over time, and they are CERTAINLY not what you expect. The Marches is a very hit and miss place. It's generally advised that smart young celestials don't go out there and play. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 98 08:25:26 -0400 From: Shadowstar Subject: IN> Delusions of Grandeur (Was: Cthulhu in the Marches) > An ethereal with delusions of grandeur. Of course, most -tell- their >followers that they are all-powerful, that's just good salesmanship, but >maybe poor Cthulu actually believes it. Just doing my job, to further my word *teeheehee* - - J. - - Blaseraph Marquis of Fate, the Demon of Delusions of Grandeur = shadowstar@centuryinter.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 09:52:09 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Bright Lilim character creation--HELP Just to complicate matters, here's an idea for generating a Bright Lilim: Lilith makes occasional deals with Archangels, right? Suppose an Archangel asked for a Lilim. Lilith probably would not "give" the new-minted Lilim to the Archangel, since that would go against her Word, but she might create the Lilim and leave it, technically free, in the Archangel's "custody," letting the Archangel accept the geas-payment for the Bright's creation. The Bright would thus have no geases on her, and would start life hanging around this Archangel and its servitors -- not in service to it (at first), but in an environment where that's the norm. Very natural that she should then sign on with the said Archangel. One of the more flexible AAs, of course. Novalis comes to mind, or Eli (of course), but Christopher, Janus, Blandine, or even Marc, are possibilities. Even Jean might, or Zadkiel. David? Michael? Uh... Dominic or Laurence, no. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 09:54:39 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Cthulhu in the Marches Robb Kidd wrote: > An ethereal with delusions of grandeur. Of course, most -tell- > their followers that they are all-powerful, that's just good > salesmanship, but maybe poor Cthulu actually believes it. Sanity never struck me as Cthulhu's long suit, so, yeah, sure. Probably the only Distinction he can grant is the ability to terrorize clinically depressed New Englanders with phobias about water. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:25:00 +0100 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: IN> Choirness question Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >Ask a Servitor of Judgment about the dissonance condition of any >other Archangel, and they can probably rattle it off by memory. They're all GMs! ;) (Isn't there one of the rites in heaven and hell which lets them get essence for adjudicating at sporting events? Reckon that would hold for RPGs as well? That puts a whole new light on what those triads do when they aren't interrogating people ... 'No Fluffiel, you can NOT play that 21st level paladin with the +5 vorpal sword again!') jo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:37:42 -0700 From: "Gerry Mckelvey" Subject: IN> delusions ect... I haven't gotten my in nomine game off the ground yet, and I'm not sure how to use the Marches just now....it seems like they're a pretty mutable place, except when they aren't that is...why do I feel like quoting Alice in Wonderland just about now...? hmm...giant white rabbits of the War....Wonder where the Mad Hatter would fit in... Jerry McKelvey Exitus Acta Probat. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:54:33 -0400 From: Matthias Müller Subject: IN> Arthurian legend and other questions Hi all, I'm about to start a mythic-flavoured IN-campaign playing in Great Britain, starting with a little relic-hunt that will eventually lead to Valefor and Baal competing in the quest for Excalibur. Jean may come into it as well... So, did anybody write up something on the arthurian legend in the IN-world I could use for inspiration ? Some other questions: the player of the Shedite of Death took the Song of Possession, would it be fair to allow him taking over dead animals as well ? Said Shedite wants to buy a sabre as an artifact and would like it to be summonable; what would the appropriate cost be ? Finally, as the demons have never been on Earth before, they'll need a guide to manifest for the first time. But how did the first Celestials visit Earth ? Were they all led by God and his/her/its Archangels ? Thanks so far, -Matthias Instant madness - just add brain ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 11:10:08 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Arthurian legend and other questions I'm not aware of any Arthurian IN material, but one thing to keep in mind is that Merlin is often supposed to be a demon/human hybrid. That would be the IN equivalent of a first-generation Child of the Grigori, though you could pick the choir. (In one major version, he was the child of Lucifer, a failed attempt at begetting the Antichrist.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 11:39:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Arthurian legend and other questions > I'm about to start a mythic-flavoured IN-campaign playing in Great Britain, > > starting with a little relic-hunt that will eventually lead to Valefor and > Baal > competing in the quest for Excalibur. Jean may come into it as well... > So, did anybody write up something on the arthurian legend in the IN-world > I could use for inspiration ? To date, there has been no published IN historical canon at all. Not on Judea in 80AD, not on the Middle Ages, not on the Age of Reformation, not the time of King David. As for Arthurian, I think you can go two ways with it: Mythical (TH White, Malory, even the Marion Zimmer Bradley version if you want) or you can go Historical, ie research the time period of the Norman Invasion of Britian, and play out a Germania campaign. I, of course, would lean toward pure Historical because I have a rabid dislike of heroic high fantasy, and because I believe that history is more interesting then anything myth can ever have. You're looking at 300AD abouts, with Early Medieval Art (all very cool), all powerful Popes, an extremely poor and illiterate population, rampant Paganism, powerful strange groups who are just writing the Kabbalah and Alchemy texts, etc. But that's just me, and as every knows, I'm a total Freak. There are several pure King Arthur sites out on the Web with tons of information - run down on time periods, legends, reading lists, etc. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 11:50:25 -0400 From: Thomas Davidson Subject: Re: IN> The Death of Michael Graveyard Greg wrote: > > In the cirrent In Nomine campaign I am running, Michael is DEAD. > Kaput. Finished. Deleted. > > So, what happens to the servitors of War? > A similar thing happened to Uriel in canon. They go to other Superiors, like Laurence or David. > If they choose to continue to serve War, how can they? Their archangel > is dead! > Some former Servitors of Uriel say that they *still* serve their Superior's Word. They call themselves the Tsayadim (The Marches, p.5). Maybe something similar could happen to Michael's Servitors in your campaign. > What are the rules for Angelic Orphans. IS there anything on angelic > orphans? > > Oh, and by the way, Gabriel is completely bonkers and wants to start > the War, Thor is back, and Baal is PISSED! > I'm curious... why is Baal pissed? His mortal enemy is dead... I would think that Baal would be elated. > The Battle for Armageddon is comin' people! Pity my players! > Oh, I do... I certainly do... > Graveyard Greg > (and NO, I did not set out to kill Michael...but that's the way the > storyline happened to go. Very dramatic.) > Those are always the best stories -- the ones that just kinda happen. - -- Thomas Davidson tdavidso@suffolk.lib.ny.us http://wwp.mirabilis.com/7789233/ UIN: 7789233 http://www.accessdenied.net/cgi-bin/main.cgi?userid=326&newuser=profile MUSIC: Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Rush, Jimi Hendrix GAMES: Champions (old and new), In Nomine, Nephilim TV: The X-Files, the Simpsons, Superman, The Tick, the Animaniacs OTHER: Religion, Philosophy, mysticism, the runes, the Tarot, writing. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 12:14:45 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> rules question At 8:24 AM -0700 6/3/98, Gerry Mckelvey wrote: >I was reading the Heaven/hell sourcebook yesterday and I have a question. >Most of the In Nomine stuff sorta dances around the question about if >mortals could accquire Angelic/Demonic forces and become a >Celestial... Dances, hell. IT DOESN'T HAPPEN IN CANON. Every single instance where some author suggested it (in sarcasm, I am assured re Night Music) has been *erratta'ed*. The only "way to become" that's been suggested is that a Prince could disassemble a soul and give the memories to a demon or demonling. The personality would be mostly lost (the demon would interpret the memories through his own personality), and the human soul destroyed. But the demon could impersonate the human, claim that humans get promoted to demons, and generally spread the common myth. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 17:24:31 +0100 From: Sam Kington Subject: Re: IN> Arthurian legend and other questions Matthias Müller wrote: > I'm about to start a mythic-flavoured IN-campaign playing in Great Britain, > starting with a little relic-hunt that will eventually lead to Valefor and > Baal competing in the quest for Excalibur. Jean may come into it as well... I would have thought Laurence would be very interested as well - not only to prevent Baal getting his hands on a major artifact, but also because, if anything goes to the heart of his Word, the most famous sword ever probably does ;-). Sam - -- Home page: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ INWO Homebrew has moved: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/inwo/ Not my employer's opinion, no snappy quote ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 17:32:43 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Arthurian legend and other questions On Wed, Jun 03, 1998 at 11:39:59AM -0400, Emily Dresner wrote: > I, of course, would lean toward pure Historical because I have a rabid > dislike of heroic high fantasy, and because I believe that history is more > interesting then anything myth can ever have. You're looking at 300AD 300 AD? God, no. At that time the Roman Empire still stretched from Gaza to Carlisle. Arthur (if he existed) would have been around the 500s or 600s. > abouts, with Early Medieval Art (all very cool), all powerful Popes, an The Pope wasn't all powerful, at least not in the British Isles. The attempt to impose an episcopal hierarchy in Ireland had more or less failed, leaving the Church based entirely on monasteries which were very often family affairs, and which raided and made war on each other. Irish monasteries were, incidentally, beginning to migrate to Britain. Iona was founded around that time. In Britain, things were (I believe) more or less the same in those areas under stable Celtic rule. In frontier Britain, the Church was probably non-functional, given the impetus of the various invasion forces. Those invasion forces being, in order of importance: The Angles and Saxons. Angles in the north and east, Saxons in the south. The Jutes in Kent. They were significant because they were populous and rich, not because of territorial extent. The Irish in the west, who had established some kingdoms in what is now Wales (principally Dyfed) and Scotland (Dalriada, which was on the northeast coast of Ireland as well, and was in Argyll), and generally terrorised the west coast of Britain. And the Frisians and Franks, who were around the south coast somewhere, but weren't terribly important. With the exception of the Irish, all were pagans, and it's quite possible that the British thought the Irish were pagans. > extremely poor and illiterate population, Remember. War = Famine and Pestilence. >rampant Paganism, Absolutely. All among the foreigners, though. powerful > strange groups who are just writing the Kabbalah and Alchemy texts, etc. > But probably not in Britain, where urban life was disappearing if not dead. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Yet it cannot be called talent to slay fellow-citizens, to deceive friends, to be without faith, without mercy, without religion; such methods may gain empire, but not glory." Machiavelli, the Prince. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #805 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.