From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Jun 7 15:24:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA06194 for ; Sun, 7 Jun 1998 15:24:18 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id PAA29858 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 7 Jun 1998 15:24:01 -0500 Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 15:24:01 -0500 Message-Id: <199806072024.PAA29858@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #812 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, June 7 1998 Volume 01 : Number 812 In this digest: IN> Role Levels -- another take Re: IN> Yet another Sorcerer question... IN> Sorcery and Soldiers of God Re: IN> Career Paths for Diabloic Servants (was Re: IN> supporting cast) Re: IN> Career Paths for Diabloic Servants (was Re: IN> supporting cast) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 05:33:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Nutt Subject: IN> Role Levels -- another take Redneck wrote: >A celestial can have, and probably does have, some basic identificatlon. >Without a Role, though, most of the ID he or she does have will have no >basis in fact, i. e. no 'paper trail' to make it seem as if s/he is a real >human being. Doesn't it seem likely, though, that your Superior (and his organization, of course) will provide you with enough stuff and documentation that you can manage to function acceptably in human society? You'll have to have *some* basic things to get along as a covert operative, and there's a strong argument for making a celestial not immediately obvious to anyone who can check some very basic stuff about you. If your driver's license flags as "no such number" when the police pull you over, and your credit cards don't get approved for purchases, they aren't much good, are they? This argues against the position some folks have put forth here, that basically says you don't have functional ID and documents without a fairly high-Level Role, no matter what its Status. >>Sure, it might not be strong enough to hold up to an intense background >>check by determined investigators... but it ought to pass an initial check >>fairly well. My solution is to get players to *justify* their Roles, and >>rule that Level can be no lower than (Status - 1) for the Role. If you've >>aroused enough suspicion that the FBI is interviewing people you supposedly >>went to high school with, you've blown your "covert assignment", anyway. > >Hardly. Role level and Status are not necessarily linked- a Role of >Trashman/6 is unlikely to have a Status of 5, or 'minor celebrity.' Well, I was talking about linking Level to Status, not the other way around. The house rule is meant to block out such obscenities as "Senator/1", or "Pope/2". >A Role's Level is the level of security, the depth of proof, that the Role >has. (A Role/1 is one where paperwork, if investigated, will check out, >nothing else, whereas a Role/6 is a Role where there is absolutely, without >question, no way that even the most thorough questioning or background check >could show up the Celestial as being not human.) As someone else pointed out already, though, that doesn't mesh with the description on p. 43. I prefer to use the Level of a Role to describe just how firmly attached to human society the character is, rather than the quality of their papers. This makes increasing a Role's Level a good reward for a PC... you are spending more time *in* your Role, and it has become a more firmly established part of the Symphony. Things you do as a part of it don't have as much of a chance of creating disturbance -- it's like you're immersing yourself in a pool of water more and more deeply. If you're only wading up to your calves, you'll make big sloshes as you move around... but if you're up to your neck, you don't make as many waves, and if you submerge completely, it's very hard to ripple the surface. Michael "I know the old saw about 'You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink'... but I believe you can hold the horse's head underwater and make him think about it for a while." -- Dr. Jane Walters, my high school principal ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 08:31:12 -0700 From: "Gerry Mckelvey" Subject: Re: IN> Yet another Sorcerer question... > I would say that since you must have the sorcery attunement to become a > sorceror that you have already crossed the gap from pure mundane and that > allowing you to learn songs is resonable. As far as learning songs from stuff > that you summon... sure why not, you have to summon something rather powerful > (not earth shattering, just not ethereal mice) in order for it to have any > songs. This would make it quite a bit more difficult to rough them up for > knowledge. Greater reward is greater risk. > > Andrew > that answer got me to thinking...all those centuries of occult books must have some game use... some of them scrolls and tomes of quaint and curious lore are gonna be inaccurate, but I suppose it could be possible that one or two demons could have had thier names leaked to the paparazzi of the occult world...hmmm..Kobal's minions at work? Anyway, In Nomine rules don't say anything about modifiers to invoke a particular demon (at least, I didn't see any...but I could very well have just missed the obvious...) but I'm wondering if you could have bonus's when using the demon's true name to summon/bind/abusethehelloutofit to get songs, attunments, or just information. might be fun to run a game where a band of demons got popular back in the dark ages and now are hunting down and destroying copies of thier true names... just throwing this out for comment.. Jerry McKelvey Exitus Acta Probat. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 07:29:38 PDT From: "Bartholomew Hammerly" Subject: IN> Sorcery and Soldiers of God Can a Soldier of God learn the Sorcery attunement? More importantly, should he? It seems to me that the old saying, "The road to Hell is full of good intentions." may apply here. Pragmatically, it would seem a good idea for the heavenly realm to promote high levels of Sorcery skills in their corporeal servitors. After all, how many angels can bind demons to their will? But, at what risk? Most angels don't want their Servitors dragged down into hell for the simple mistake of summoning the wrong creature. (digression) Angels are an excellent source of true names of demons (end of digression) I suppose a rescue mission is always possible (yeah, right). Coming soon to a list near you: Dr Stranger, Sorcerer Supreme of Creation Bart Hammerly Calabim of Fire "Time is the fire in which we burn." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 00:06:22 +0900 From: Simon Hailes Subject: Re: IN> Career Paths for Diabloic Servants (was Re: IN> supporting cast) At 10:20 PM 5/06/98, you wrote: >>Andrew Frades Wrote >> >>One little problem with all of this... When an undead dies he/she is >>dead for good. No soul going on to its eternal reward/punishment, >>nothing. The Undead's celestial forces are bound up into the corporeal >>there is no soul to be loosed and thus no soul to save. >> >>Once you buy a prize it is yours to keep. > >I know I've said this before, but I do have apersonal problem with this and >I'll try to illustrate. > >A small thought experiment. A uniquely honest demon appears to you and >points out in no uncertain terms that you are an Evil Person. He suggests >that you might as well work directly for Hell, and cash in on the extra >benefits, rather than just fiddle around the edges. He goes on to outline >for you the three major options possible to a recruit to the Diabolic. > >1. Soldier of Hell. You get access to possible power and privilege as >well as becoming part of a power structure that has some limited interest >in your welfare, as long as you support it’s aims. You live no longer than >you would otherwise and when you die you to go to Hell and suffer >excruciating torment for all eternity. > >2. Sorcerer. You get access to the possibility of great powers, however >every time you attempt to increase your powers you could go straight to >Hell and suffer excruciating torment for all eternity. You live no longer >than you would otherwise and when you die you go to Hell and suffer >excruciating torment for all eternity. > >3. Undeath. You gain immediate supernatural powers, plus possible >additional power and privilege as well as becoming part of a power >structure that has some limited interest in your welfare, as long as you >support it’s aims. You may have to deal with unnatural needs to maintain >your existence, but otherwise you will live until you are physically killed >and when you die your essential being will cease to exist, and you DO NOT >go to Hell and suffer excruciating torment for all eternity. > >He gives you three chances to choose the best option. Which do you prefer? > >Thanking you for your indulgence. > >Regards, Peter. > >Me I would choose one of the former two, the chance of being obliviated is just too high, and one does not suffer excruciating torment in hell, a cunning and lucky soul can in fact thrive in Hell, and if they're in Shal-Mari, well Club X here I come! Simon, Demon Prince of Pearls > > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 12:03:02 -0400 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: Re: IN> Career Paths for Diabloic Servants (was Re: IN> supporting cast) At 10:20 PM -0400 6/5/98, Peter Frederick wrote: >I know I've said this before, but I do have apersonal problem with this and >I'll try to illustrate. > >A small thought experiment. A uniquely honest demon appears to you and >points out in no uncertain terms that you are an Evil Person. He suggests >that you might as well work directly for Hell, and cash in on the extra >benefits, rather than just fiddle around the edges. He goes on to outline >for you the three major options possible to a recruit to the Diabolic. > >1. Soldier of Hell. You get access to possible power and privilege as >well as becoming part of a power structure that has some limited interest >in your welfare, as long as you support itís aims. You live no longer than >you would otherwise and when you die you to go to Hell and suffer >excruciating torment for all eternity. If this is true, they're certainly not going to tell you the latter. Not much of an incentive to serve the cause of Hell. Either they're going to tell you that Eternal Torture doesn't happen (And how are you going to check? Not like you can learn Celestial Projection), or that with excellent servitude, you can buy your way out of it. Plus you get all this neat supernatural power (Compared to what you had before), and may be considered to be granted Immortality, or Sorcery. Or that there is no afterlife, and you'll just cease to exist anyway. It also depends how forgiving you think the universe is. If you belive that as the Malakite twists his chopsticks in your spleen, that you can spontaneously repent all your Evil deeds and waltz in through the gates of Heaven singing "Tra-la-la" and go on to an Eternal Reward, you're much more likely to choose this option. > >2. Sorcerer. You get access to the possibility of great powers, however >every time you attempt to increase your powers you could go straight to >Hell and suffer excruciating torment for all eternity. You live no longer >than you would otherwise and when you die you go to Hell and suffer >excruciating torment for all eternity. Harder to obtain than option one, possibly harder to obtain than option 3. If you can persuade someone to teach you Corporeal Entropy, you can extend your lifetime significantly. Depending how you go about it, Option 1 might also be a prerequisite. > >3. Undeath. You gain immediate supernatural powers, plus possible >additional power and privilege as well as becoming part of a power >structure that has some limited interest in your welfare, as long as you >support itís aims. You may have to deal with unnatural needs to maintain >your existence, but otherwise you will live until you are physically killed >and when you die your essential being will cease to exist, and you DO NOT >go to Hell and suffer excruciating torment for all eternity. > >He gives you three chances to choose the best option. Which do you prefer? You're likely to have to start out with option 1 before you get to choose option 3, and even then, its a question of "Is the amount of servitude this person is going to provide to us worth more than the amount of Essence we can pull from his tortured soul after he dies, and more than the Forces we'll have to staple onto him?" If it's not, you'll never be offered it. It's almost never an option to Joe Random Maniac. And if you pick the right Demon Prince to serve, and don't get traded, it's not an eternity of torture. In Shal-Mari, it's an enternity of high-priced delights and attempting to flee from Demons whose ideas of fun are at right angles to yours. In Perdition, it's an eternity of being entranced by things you'd normally find mind-numbingly boring. In Gehenna, it's reasonably easy to end your excruciating torment. Stygia doesn't have that much of an official torture policy, if I recall correctly. Sheol, Tartarus, and Hades...Well, it's your own damn fault for serving Hell. Deal with it. \|=) = http://members.tripod.com/~maltesh ============== nofori@pop3.utoled.edu === Nana-Yaw "The Fish" Ofori, Freelance Soldier of Heck, presenty serving Jaraith, Shedite Baron of Nightmares, the Demon of NONONOAUUUAARRGGGHHH!!! ===== ><{{"> ============ "Life's a Fish, then you Fry." ======= <"}}>< ====== ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #812 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.