From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Jun 28 14:59:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA32252 for ; Sun, 28 Jun 1998 14:59:12 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) id OAA32716 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jun 1998 14:56:02 -0500 Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 14:56:02 -0500 Message-Id: <199806281956.OAA32716@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #839 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, June 28 1998 Volume 01 : Number 839 In this digest: Re: Re: IN> [NPC] Jamin, Elohite of the Wind IN> subject: Judge Death, and an Angel of prejudice (just thoughts) Re: IN> In Nomine - The Musical (but who got to be in The Movie?) Re: IN> subject: Judge Death, and an Angel of prejudice (just thoughts) IN> Re: Mercurians of Yves (was Rewrite of Combat System) Re: IN> In Nomine-The Movie Re: IN> Re: Mercurians of Yves (was Rewrite of Combat System) Re: IN> Shadowrun Crossover IN> in need of a little input Re: IN> Rewrite of the combat system Re: IN> Choir, Band, and Superior Questions Re: IN> Rewrite of the combat system Re: IN> In Nomine-The Movie and THANKS! :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:58:30 EDT From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: IN> [NPC] Jamin, Elohite of the Wind In a message dated 6/26/98 11:31:32 PM, you wrote: >>Well, I don't really think "achieving destiny" and "getting into >>Heaven" are the same concept. If a guy has led a really crummy >>life, but then has an epiphany on his deathbed and repents of his >>sins against God, then he goes to Heaven. But he didn't achieve >>his destiny, since that would have involved living a virtuous and >>God-fearing life. > >>Neel Krishnaswami >>neelk@alum.mit.edu > >Where, Exactly, in In Nomine (the game) does it say this? > >Can we please try to keep a consistent division between our persoanl >beliefs about the way that the world works, and the way that the Canon of >the Game is written? Note, I am not attacking anyones personal beliefs, nor >do I have any problem with non cannon games. But I get really annooyed by >people taking Religous cannon and citing it as game cannon. >The two are Mutually Exclusive. (Note that this is continuing in Rant Mode, as a counter-rant) If you'd been paying any attention at all over the last few months, you would know that Neel is running an unabashedly non-cannon game. He has stated this many times and in many ways. If we have to type in the garbage filler "IMC" every third line or every post, it will get overly stupid. In case you hadn't noticed, Jamin is an NPC for Neel's campaign. My campaign could very well use him, as explained. I suspect Earl's campaign (if he has one) could use Jamin. Em might use him to blow her players' minds a little further. If a NPC is introduced on the list, he is *by definition* non- cannonical. Cope. ><\Rant> >Daiv Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:38:17 PDT From: "Martin Arnold" Subject: IN> subject: Judge Death, and an Angel of prejudice (just thoughts) In response to a discussion about Balseraph of Kronos Attunement (from Peter Martin, I believe). My twopenneth-worth is that, upon first reading the rules, I felt uncomfortable with letting players buy Choir attunements other than their own. I liked the idea that each one is somewhat personal for each character, or choir ate least. I still feel that way and only intend to let the PC’s have access to those as a gift or reward from their Superior. Anyone read 2000AD? It struck me that Judge Death, a character from the Judge Dredd story, would make a fine IN NPC. His motivation is that, in his dimension, all crime is committed by the living - therefore, he declared all life itself illegal. Maybe someone else has been here before, but he strikes me as a very Discordant Balseraph who’s managed to believe his own personal reality about crime and the living. A servitor of Death is the obvious choice, but perhaps he served Asmodeus and kinda lost it. On another topic, I was thinking about Dominic, whom I’ve really overlooked so far. I was wondering whether the concept of ‘pre-judgement’ (or put simply: prejudice) would come under his jurisdiction. I thought that if so there must have been an Angel who held that word, or something similar. Serving such a Word would no doubt be a tough job (just ask Druriel!), I think. As a result this Angel would be bound to Fall. I wondered who it could’ve been… Malphas? (highly improbable and uncannonical I’m sure!) I’m hoping to attend the Euro Gencon September this year (in the UK) - will IN/SJG be attending? (Despite the horror stories about WotC’s running of the thing I’ve heard.) Marnie Darth Vader, to Luke Skywalker: "Luke I know what you’re getting for Christmas" Luke: "How?" "I felt your presents!" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:24:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine - The Musical (but who got to be in The Movie?) - ---GR Cogman wrote: > > Yes, I have now gone totally weird, but for those who want to check out what > happens when In Nomine meets Gilbert and Sullivan (and Cats, and Phantom of > the Opera, and Grease, and Beauty and the Beast, and Les Miserables) try: > > http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/fiction/Musical.html > (My thanks to arcangel, who HTMLised it.) > > --- > > > Maya, Elohite of Eli in service to Blandine And I thought _I_ had too much time on my hands! :) Still, I liked it ;) BTW, can anyone tell me where I can find the listing of the actors and actresses who made the cut in the IN NOMINE Movie? :) My players are dying to find out if some of their favorite actors made the "audition"... Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:54:22 EDT From: Heretic103@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> subject: Judge Death, and an Angel of prejudice (just thoughts) In a message dated 6/27/98 12:43:23 PM Central Daylight Time, martyarnie@hotmail.com writes: << I’m hoping to attend the Euro Gencon September this year (in the UK) - will IN/SJG be attending? (Despite the horror stories about WotC’s running of the thing I’ve heard.) >> I have heard from rifter magazine that SJG and palladium and some other companies are not attending someone correct me if I am wrong ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:13:22 -0400 From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: IN> Re: Mercurians of Yves (was Rewrite of Combat System) MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 6/26/98 5:54:13 AM, you wrote: > >In my game, I've got two Mercurians serving Yves... And I've been forced to >pull some interesting stuff. When one of them resonates on Joe Random, I pull >a Tarot card out of the deck, and show it to them. One NPC who wasn't supposed >to be very important got the ten of swords, and started a new thread in the >campaign... This is an amazingly cool idea. You are a god. I'll have to ask my player if he minds the change, and if he's game implement it at once. (Actually, I don't have a tarot deck, but I do have an Everway Fate Deck -- anyone remember that game?) What do you do, exactly -- do you pick out a card if you know what's in the NPC's future, or do you always draw? The only thing that bothers me is that it will make it easier to distinguish between minor characters and major NPCs, since I prefer to try to maintain the appearance of a full world as much as possible. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 02:05:11 +0900 From: Simon Hailes Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine-The Movie Ok, the revisionism has begun, and the final, and comprehenisve list of actors is here, because of all the complaints I got about the whole topic dragging on and such this will be THE LAST WORD from me on this thread. Blandine-Jennifer Connely, mainly for her role in Higher Learning David-Dolph Lundren, for being blonde and muscle bound. Dominic-human form as guy who plays Skinner in X-Files Eli-Matthew Richards, for his role as Krammer Gabriel-Lucy Lawless of course Janus-Jack Nicholson, he's chaos incarnate Jean-Leornard Nemoy :) Jordi-Any animated beast will do Laurence-Kevin Sorbo Marc-Charlie Sheen, for his role in Wall Street Michael-Nicholas Cage Novalis-Lisa Kudrow, for Pheobe in Friends Yves-Alec Guiness 'You must learn the ways of the Force if your to come with me to Alderaan-' Andrealphus-Antonio Banderas, for obvious reasons Asmodeus-Anthony Hopkins, why not? Baal-Val Kilmer Beleth-Angelica Huston, just watch the Addams Family and you'll see Belial-Laurence Fishburn, it's about time he played a baddie Haagenti-animated creep Kobal-Dennis Leary, for being jaded Kronos-Douglas Bradley, he's already played a Prince of Hell Malphas-Robert DeNiro, especially for cape fear Nybbas-Jim Carrey in The Truman Show Saminga-Randal 'Tex' Cob Valefor-Woody Harelson-see Money Train for details Vapula-Christopher Lloyd, especially from that Jessica Rabbit film Simon, Corrupt Hollywood Director ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 01:23:52 EDT From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Re: Mercurians of Yves (was Rewrite of Combat System) In a message dated 6/27/98 4:26:50 PM, Neel wrote: >MarkDEddy@aol.com wrote: >> >>In a message dated 6/26/98 5:54:13 AM, you wrote: >> >>In my game, I've got two Mercurians serving Yves... And I've been forced to >>pull some interesting stuff. When one of them resonates on Joe Random, I pull >>a Tarot card out of the deck, and show it to them. One NPC who wasn't >supposed >>to be very important got the ten of swords, and started a new thread in the >>campaign... > >This is an amazingly cool idea. You are a god. I'll have to ask my >player if he minds the change, and if he's game implement it at once. >(Actually, I don't have a tarot deck, but I do have an Everway Fate >Deck -- anyone remember that game?) > >What do you do, exactly -- do you pick out a card if you know what's >in the NPC's future, or do you always draw? The only thing that bothers >me is that it will make it easier to distinguish between minor >characters and major NPCs, since I prefer to try to maintain the >appearance of a full world as much as possible. > I will usually 'pull' the card in a hidden location and tell the player what it is/shows. If they ask to see the card, I show it to them, after sticking the card back in the deck. For instance, a Cherub of Novalis had the fortune card Two of Cups, which (in the Waite/Rider deck) shows a mariage being blessed by a winged critter. I cut the deck, said, "You see the two of Cups in her face," and he asked to see the card. I shuffled, and showed him the card once I found it. Of course, I also occasionally cheat, and use the deck to help me design an adventure, but that's a different question. >-- >Neel Krishnaswami >neelk@alum.mit.edu Mark(I also have used I Ching to spice up Oriental Adventures games...) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 15:25:08 From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> Shadowrun Crossover Gary Suggested: >Has anyone attempted a Shadowrun-IN crossover??? I just thought that attacking a demon >with cyberware would be funny... I think the suggestion of a combined IN and SR (Shadowrun) campaign would be pretty interesting, although it might be difficult to find players. There are a few points in the two games that cross over to make interesting play. Firstly the advent of increased technological advantage cuts down some of the advantages Celestials get from their greater natural abilities. Grafted muscle and toughened boned can make your bruiser as strong as a medium powered Celestial. This puts pressure on the players who might question their continued relevance, an interesting situation for a servant of the Creator to be in. Second the effect of Cyberware in SR. Basically having cyberware implanted cuts down the individuals connection to the primal energy flow of the universe, some people say it removes bits of the individuals Soul. This is an interesting thing in IN terms. My first thought was that Vapula must have cornered the Words for cyberware and made it the province of Hell. Infernal backing does give some answer to two of my continuing questions about cyberware; why is so much of it related to combat and why is it so cheap. Crossing back to IN my first thought was to inflict a level of Celestial Blindness for each point of Essence loss the cyberware would bring. This is bad for Angels, but some Demons might not mind it so much. The later development of Bioware, which doesn’t reduce Essence, could be Jean trying to give people an alternative to the Infernal cyberware and a fighting edge for the Angels. Thirdly the return of magic and mythical creatures is reasonably obviously a surge in the power of the Ethereal Spirits. A strong third force is of major interest in any IN campaign. A sufficiently strong Ethereal sphere might throw off it’s allegiances to Hell and stand on it’s own. The establishment of Elven nations on Earth is a pretty clear indicator that the Ethereals are here to stay. I would say that the response of Heaven and Hell to an independent third force would be very interesting. If their response was the same it might give people reason to wonder what the differences between them are. Fourthly it raises interesting threats and dodges to the Masquerade of the War. The fact that a Celestial is stronger and tougher and faster than a normal human is not going to raise any eyebrows, because everyone knows that enhancements are available to do that, however if the Celestial doesn’t have any of those enhancements it will raise questions. Fortunately SR gives a quick answer, Natural Adepts. Natural Adepts are people who have tapped the raised magical energy field to give themselves enhanced abilities, not always natural ones. Since Natural Adepts are a bit of a mystery in the game this will shake most queries, but if there is a difference between Natural Adepts and Celestials then some people will know it isn’t true. If there isn’t a difference is opens a whole other bunch of questions :) . In all an interesting concept, but there are some many interesting concepts for IN campaigns I doubt I’ll ever get to this one. Thanking you for you indulgence. Regards, Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au May the Goddess shelter you in the palm of her hand until we meet again. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 00:55:21 -0700 From: EagleScout Subject: IN> in need of a little input Well, I've received my copy of the In Nomine rules book and the Infernal Player's Guide in the mail recently and I've been getting the system down bit by bit. At the same time, since if I ever to get an oppertunity to make use of this game I'll be the GM, I've been trying to create a setting. Nothing specific, just a city with its own share of celestial shadow wars and politicing. I hate to say it, but I'm finding my creative waters to be a little stagnate when it comes to In Nomine. Let me tell you about what I've put together and then I'll explain where I want to go and what I want it to grow into. What I'd like from the veteran GM's on this list is some honest criticism and input, so long as its respectfully given. Not to say that any of your are direspectful, I just don't want to set myself up for too much of a fall. The city I've chosen to work with is Los Angeles. I know, I know, typical and generic, but I've got some ties to the place. I'm a native Californian and I'll be moving to Pasadeana in the fall, which means I've got decent amount of knowledge of LA. I'm an outsider, but I've spent enough time in the city and its outlying areas to get a feel for the mood and attitude of a few places. The focus of my setting will probably involve infernal plotting and politics. Demons have been lording over LA for a lot of the 20th century, but recently they've let their guard down the place has turned into a warm zone. Angelic strikes at key demonic strongholds are making it look as though the angels have more power in LA then they really do. LA is the type of place that has a lot of celestial traffic. Most celestials are there briefly and then move on. There is a core group work for each side that maintains the angelic and infernal networks of Los Angeles. The demonic network is run, out of a bar and grill in Burbank called Machavellie's. This a place where several key demons gather to chat and discuss their plans. The group, three or four strong deomns, don't really get along too well. One is a Balseraph that works as an executive, another is another equally notable Balseraph that produces trashy talk shows. The executive work for Baal and the producer works for Nybbas. Both of these rival demons hold the title of Baron. The other demons I've come up with that frequent Machavellie's are several servants of Kronos who keep to the shadows, not letting anoyone know who they are or when they're present. As far as other ideas I've had, I'm thinking there is certainly more then one demonic meeting place. Other ideas I've had include, adandoned factories, rave sites, and urban slums. As far as the angelic presence, I'm not too sure. I know that the demons have been driven out of several of their hideouts, but I'm not sure whether or not angels would want to take over a demon's hole in the wall. I figure every Archangel and Demon Prince is interested in LA for some reason, but I need to work out some specific one with motivations. Also, I want there to be some point of contention. I need ideas for places and people that haven't commited themselves to either side, souls that are still being fought for and such. What I'd like to end up with is a strong setting with a solid background that I could end up using as a campaign setting or just store awat for future reference. What does everyone think? Thanks, Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 18:30:12 -0400 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: Re: IN> Rewrite of the combat system At 4:00 PM -0400 6/25/98, Jo Hart wrote: >I liked the way you calculate hit points, much better than the original. I >confess that what I truly dislike about IN combat is how long it all takes >if people have a lot of hit points to play around with -- that and trying >to remember how much power & precision you get if you combine claws with >Gabriel's malakite attunement. > >What I actually wanted to say was that I liked your web page. Is it OK with >you if I link to it? (Incidentally, good luck with having a Mercurian of >Destiny as a PC -- I love the concept but I am not fond of any power in >which I have to ask the player not to use it on certain people (such as >other PCs). On the good side, she is a great player and we had some very >long and enlightening discussions about Fate, Destiny and Free Will in the >game :) Good luck!). I don't see much of a problem with the Mercurian of Destiny attunement, becuase Yvesian precognitive abilities give information "Without Celestial Intervention." So if the other PC's are Angels, well, everything they do is "Celestial Intervention," and they'd get a blank slate. (Though on the flip side, that makes a Mercurian of Destiny an automatic Celestial Detector.) For the Human PC's, their lives are obviously quite different than they would have been if they'd never met any Celestials, so one could take a Pratchett-Like "Trousers of Time" approach, in which the attunement is describing a history that would have happened had the Soldier not met any of her angelic friends. "Next month, you would have bought a lottery ticket that would have won you six hundred thousand dollars, but after you cashed it in, you would have gotten rip-roaring drunk and gone into a coma, that lasts at least another eight months. Meanwhile, the lottery commision would have declared your ticket void due to a printing error, and revoked all your money. WHile you're in the hospital, your apartment is robbed by your neighbor, Arthur Drylen. Two months later, the building burns down because you left the iron on,>' Anyway, it's just a thought. = http://members.tripod.com/~maltesh ============== nofori@pop3.utoled.edu === Nana-Yaw "The Fish" Ofori, Freelance Soldier of Heck, presenty serving Monty, Lilim Captain of Media, the Demon of Game Shows ===== ><{{"> ============ "Life's a Fish, then you Fry." ======= <"}}>< ====== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 12:33:09 +0100 From: "Nagasaki" Subject: Re: IN> Choir, Band, and Superior Questions >They don't *have* to run back down to a fight where they got killed -- >if they don't have a vessel, they *can't*, without petitioning their >Archangel. But yes, this is one of the nasty things about fighting >Malakim -- kill them, and they show back up in a round or two, and >they often bring friends. (Though they can only bring friends with >vessels, and the GM can always rule that all the Malakim with vessels >in the area are *busy on Earth* and not available to squelch demons...) Ermmm, wouldn't this be suffering an evil to live when It's their choice??? Just a thought ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 16:01:33 +0100 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Rewrite of the combat system At 18:30 27/06/98 -0400, you wrote: > > I don't see much of a problem with the Mercurian of Destiny >attunement, becuase Yvesian precognitive abilities give information >"Without Celestial Intervention." They do? ;-) (ie. I'm not sure that is canon, although its certainly a valid interpretation) OK, you can certainly run it that way, and it probably is easier but I decided that I wanted to imbue that attunement with a little more awe/ respect and actually give her some abilities to truly foretell the future. Sometimes it is undesirable because the things she sees are unhappy things, and she knows that they are inevitable (although not always why, or what they might mean in a more general sense). What this means in my game (I'm just setting this out in case anyone finds it interesting/ useful -- sorry for the spam): There is a certain amount of predestination in mortal lives, or at least there are some things which are absolutely fixed for any mortal at the time of birth. These include time of death and can include other things too, such as what kinds of talents the mortal will have, whether they will have children etc. This is the sort of thing that a talented astrologer/ palmist can tap into (although the True version of those gifts are usually taught by Kronos to mortals -- still, some people seem to be naturally talented at divination and the ones Kronos doesn't get may later be recruited as soldiers of destiny). These are also the events that the Mercurian of Yves attunement will pick up, if they are slated to happen in the next 9 months. They'll also tend to pick up weather forecast type of vagueties, especially concerning personal relationships or important meetings -- so I rather liked the tarot card idea for that. (I tend to feel that for most people, their lives will not radically change in the next 9 months... ) None of these things are tied into fate or destiny, they are part of the symphony on a deeper level. They are things which will be. If someone is going to die at a certain time then they are going to die at that time -- if the angels manage to stop some demons from killing the mortal, then he might be run over by a bus instead. However, what is _not_ fixed for anyone is the manner in which they will live their life, and the effect they will have on other people, or even on the rest of the world. It is also never predetermined as to whether a mortal soul will end up in heaven or hell. So in a nutshell, that is what the battles between fate & destiny are all about IMG. Kronos doesn't usually send demons out to kill mortals, or if he does, he gives them very specific instructions as to the time and manner of death required. It tends to make destiny angels seem strangely laid back and enigmatic to others. They understand instinctively that there are certain things which need to happen at certain times, and save their energy for the things they consider important which they actually have the ability to change -- this could mean that Mr. Wright (for example) could casually shrug off the fact that the angels have met someone who is dying of cancer with 'It is his time to go' but have a seraphic fit about making sure two other people manage to bump into each other at a bus queue at precisely 5:15pm on Thursday night. It comes of having a set of priorities that are obscure to most normal celestials. I have to admit that I also kind of like the notion that marriages are predestined. I'm not sure if it is cute or scary (depends on the marriage, I suppose). jo jhart@btinternet.com http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~jhart/ - --- "When ideas fail, words come in very handy." Goethe (1749-1832) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 12:38:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine-The Movie and THANKS! :) - ---Simon Hailes wrote: > > Ok, the revisionism has begun, and the final, and comprehenisve list of > actors is here, because of all the complaints I got about the whole topic > dragging on and such this will be THE LAST WORD from me on this thread. > > Blandine-Jennifer Connely, mainly for her role in Higher Learning > David-Dolph Lundren, for being blonde and muscle bound. > Dominic-human form as guy who plays Skinner in X-Files > Eli-Matthew Richards, for his role as Krammer > Gabriel-Lucy Lawless of course > Janus-Jack Nicholson, he's chaos incarnate > Jean-Leonard Nemoy :) > Jordi-Any animated beast will do > Laurence-Kevin Sorbo > Marc-Charlie Sheen, for his role in Wall Street > Michael-Nicholas Cage > Novalis-Lisa Kudrow, for Pheobe in Friends > Yves-Alec Guiness 'You must learn the ways of the Force if your to > come with me to Alderaan-' > Well, except for Nicholas Cage, I love the Archangels. :) I got a lot of those right on the nose... > Andrealphus-Antonio Banderas, for obvious reasons > Asmodeus-Anthony Hopkins, why not? > Baal-Val Kilmer > Beleth-Angelica Huston, just watch the Addams Family and you'll see > Belial-Laurence Fishburn, it's about time he played a baddie > Haagenti-animated creep > Kobal-Dennis Leary, for being jaded > Kronos-Douglas Bradley, he's already played a Prince of Hell > Malphas-Robert DeNiro, especially for cape fear > Nybbas-Jim Carrey in The Truman Show > Saminga-Randal 'Tex' Cob > Valefor-Woody Harelson-see Money Train for details > Vapula-Christopher Lloyd, especially from that Jessica Rabbit film I still think David Letterman for Nybbas, but who cares? :) > > Simon, Corrupt Hollywood Director > > Thanks Simon! Yer the greatest! Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #839 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.