From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Jul 25 10:23:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA27384 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 10:23:10 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id KAA07560 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 25 Jul 1998 10:23:04 -0500 Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 10:23:04 -0500 Message-Id: <199807251523.KAA07560@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #874 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, July 25 1998 Volume 01 : Number 874 In this digest: Re: IN> Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting IN> More on tethers (just a little though) Re: IN> More on tethers (just a little though) Re: IN> Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting IN> Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting Re: IN> Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting Re: IN> Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting IN> Roles and what happens if you get caught without one? Re: IN> Roles and what happens if you get caught without one? Re: IN> Tether net-book (Re: Tether Sourcebook) Re: IN> Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting Re: IN> Roles and what happens if you get caught without one? Re: IN> Tether net-book (Re: Tether Sourcebook) IN> Final Trumpet Chatter (Re: Tether net-book) Re: IN> Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting Re: IN> Final Trumpet Chatter (Re: Tether net-book) IN> Books IN> Fall of the Malakim intro, and a problem? Re: IN> Final Trumpet Chatter (Re: Tether net-book) Re: IN> Fall of the Malakim intro, and a problem? IN> Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting IN> Books and Movies Re: IN> Books and Movies Re: IN> Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting Re: IN> Reallllly Off-Topic Dribble...but funny Re: IN> Roles and what happens if you get caught without one? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:51:53 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting Jayson Howell wrote: > How comfortable and easy it would have been to rely on biblical > sources and call all other concepts heretical. Um. Easy to write, yes. Easy to market, probably not. I feel pretty sure that SJG makes In Nomine pretty open, theologically, to avoid unnecessary offense, both as atiquette and as marketing realism. By the way, if you rely on just *biblical* sources, your angelology is going to be mighty scanty. Western angel lore, which IN draws on heavily of course, includes lots and lots of legend and theological speculation. The Bible mentions only two angels by name (Michael and Gabriel) and only four "species" of angel -- angel, archangel, cherub, and seraph. You can get a few more by including the Apocrypha (notably Raphael), but not many. Add the pseudepigrapha and you really start cooking. Then there are goodies from the Talmud, the angelology of Pseudo-Dionyius, and the Lilith legend of the Ben Sira, etc. etc. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 17:25:25 +0200 (MET DST) From: Jasper Reijer Floor Subject: IN> More on tethers (just a little though) It was recently noted and confirmed that tethers cannot be created by superiors (unless you, the gm, decide that your game world works differently). However this is not entirely correct. I was re-reading the bit in the marches about Gabriel when I noticed the folowing on p.24 "Just about every active volcano has the potential to be a Tether for Gabriel - She only needs to awaken the potential by diving into its heart and giving up the proper amount of essence." Now I know this isn't exactly the same as making a tether any old place you want to, but it is an example of a tether being created by a superior. Essentially its the same as if Dominic went into a courtroom and made it a tether (which as far as I know he can't do). Does this mean any place with enough potential can be made a tether? I would personally say Gabriel's a special case and she can do things no one (except god, and maybe Yves) else can. However, I'm biased towards Gabriel (she's my favorite AA). mvg, Jasper Floor p.s. I scanned the digest to make sure this wasn't said before, but if I missed it by accident I apologise. Nothing is given so profusely as advice. Francis, Duc de La Rochefoucauld - Maxim 110 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 98 11:39 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> More on tethers (just a little though) >It was recently noted and confirmed that tethers cannot be created by >superiors (unless you, the gm, decide that your game world works >differently). However this is not entirely correct. I was re-reading the >bit in the marches about Gabriel when I noticed the folowing on p.24 >"Just about every active volcano has the potential to be a Tether for >Gabriel - She only needs to awaken the potential by diving into its heart >and giving up the proper amount of essence." > >Now I know this isn't exactly the same as making a tether any old place >you want to, but it is an example of a tether being created by a superior. Actually, it's a case of a natural phenomenon that creates a Tether, essentially. That specific volcano becomes a Tether to *her* when she does that. There's a type of Tether in the Tether book draft that covers these sorts of intermittent, but repetitive phenomena. Volcanoes, tidal waves, hurricanes, and tornadoes are all examples. Basically, there must be a Word-bound Seneschal of Volcanoes; what Gabriel is doing is connecting him to *this* volcano. Unless he's a Kyrio, though, she can have only one active volcano Tether at a time, unless it's a long-term volcano (like Mauna Loa in Hawaii), in which case it may be a permanent Tether, since it's such an important instance. Since most volcanoes are very short-lived, one volcano Tether at a time isn't really much of a problem. There's still a slight variation between the Marches description and the Tether canon in the Tether book, but I'll explain it away as poetic license.... (This is what comes of trying to make up logical explanations for things *after* people have written all kinds of random stuff into canon....) >Essentially its the same as if Dominic went into a courtroom and made it a >tether (which as far as I know he can't do). Only if it's already a wild Tether, due to some really significant happening related to Judgment. > Does this mean any place with >enough potential can be made a tether? The potential actually forms the Tether, if it will happen at all. But it's not connected to any fixed place until a Superior stabilizes it. > I would personally say Gabriel's a >special case and she can do things no one (except god, and maybe Yves) >else can. However, I'm biased towards Gabriel (she's my favorite AA). The case above is more a special case for most of the elemental Superiors -- most of the intermittent Tethers belong to them. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:51:57 -0700 From: "E Kumar" Subject: Re: IN> Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting Playing devils advocate in a situation like this sure got a lot of wicked responses.; )Malphas would be proud. :> Let me clarify my point though as it seems to have been slightly misinterpreted as an insult to the creators of the game. ( D. Pearcy has done an excellent job, that's why I play it.) Take for instance a group of angels who are perhaps caught up in a very western theological discussion and having a good old hard time within the game. Along comes an eastern monk/soldier or an angel with the word of say "Equanimity" and suddenly through his completely different perspective of the situation and symphony the problem takes on a whole new twist solved in different matters than a " western angel " normaly would seek. In-Nomine is a vehicle to have a good time and explore areas of our current world through the eyes of a purely spiritual being. Destroy ones paradigms and delve into all that is available is all. By the way I also grew up with very Catholic beliefs, but why necessarily stick to what I know? - ---------- > From: Earl Wajenberg > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Subject: Re: IN> Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting > Date: Friday, July 24, 1998 8:51 AM > > Jayson Howell wrote: > > > How comfortable and easy it would have been to rely on biblical > > sources and call all other concepts heretical. > > Um. Easy to write, yes. Easy to market, probably not. I feel > pretty sure that SJG makes In Nomine pretty open, theologically, > to avoid unnecessary offense, both as atiquette and as marketing > realism. > > By the way, if you rely on just *biblical* sources, your angelology > is going to be mighty scanty. Western angel lore, which IN draws > on heavily of course, includes lots and lots of legend and theological > speculation. The Bible mentions only two angels by name (Michael > and Gabriel) and only four "species" of angel -- angel, archangel, > cherub, and seraph. You can get a few more by including the > Apocrypha (notably Raphael), but not many. Add the pseudepigrapha > and you really start cooking. Then there are goodies from the > Talmud, the angelology of Pseudo-Dionyius, and the Lilith legend of > the Ben Sira, etc. etc. > > Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 14:29:06 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting Message text written by INTERNET:in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >> There is definately a Christian/Catholic overtone to the game,< It is after all a game about christian mythology, so you expect a christyian overtone. Outlaws of the Water Margin has a Chinese overtone because its about being a chinese bandit. It would be some what strange but not difficult to run in nomine with a chinese mythological feel. Adam Dahak@Compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 14:53:48 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting I recommend "Trio for Lute," a fantasy trilogy by R. A. MacAvoy for In Nomine background reading, as well as for general enjoyment. The three individual titles are "Damiano," "Damiano's Lute," and "Raphael." The characters include Lucifer and Raphael the Archangel. Each is a good portrait of demonic and angelic personality, respectively. For this thread, it is interesting that each off-handedly accepts different names from people of different cultures. Damiano, a medieval Italian, calls them Raphael and Lucifer. Saara, a Lappish witch, calls them by other names; I forget Raphael's, but Lucifer's is simply "Liar." A Berber woman calls Raphael "Great Djinn" and Lucifer "Iblis," I think. A Chinese dragon calls them "great sage" and "Maya"/illusion. Obviously, some of these are descriptions, not individual names, but the spirits in question pay little attention to the cultural variations. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 15:17:13 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Emily K. Dresner" Subject: Re: IN> Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting > It is after all a game about christian mythology, so you expect a > christyian overtone. Outlaws of the Water Margin has a Chinese overtone > because its about being a chinese bandit. It would be some what strange but > not difficult to run in nomine with a chinese mythological feel. As an aside, I did post something about Creationer beliefs a few weeks ago, something that I feel is essentially Taoist in nature. Here's a little clip from the Tao Te Ching: "The Tao is like a well: used but never used up. It is like the eternal void; filled with infinite possibilities. It is hidden but always present. I don't know who gave birth to it. It is older then God. The Tao doesn't take sides; it gives birth to both good and evil. The Master doesn't take sides; he welcomes both saints and sinners. The Tao is like a bellows: it is empty yet infinitely capable. The more you use it, the more it produces; the more you talk of it, the less you understand. Hold onto the center." I always thought that the Symphony and the Tao were synonymous. Especially talking about Creation. But Creation thought tends to be rather alien from the conventional In Nomine sense. Keep in mind that Creation implies Destruction and everything in between. Interestingly, several bodies of Chinese thought - Taoism, Mystical Taoism, Confucianism for Judgment and Stone and War to a point, and some of the Mahayana school of Buddhism fit just fine, actually quite well, with Angelic thought as presented in the sourcebooks and on the List. The trick is to remove some of the Westernism and accept that people like that Buddhist Monk Soldier of War might have an understanding of the ways of Combat and the Body in a way that most others do not, but he has a place in the Symphony. On the other hand, spirits and ghosts and monsters do belong in the Marches. I'm not entire sure what to _do_ about some of the gods of Hinduism or the spirits of Ancestors or the religions of Micronesia in an In Nomine sense and still make them fair to those who follow them. I'm twitchy about tossing everything in the Marches for Politicall Correct reasons, and occasionally wonder if what is done to the Ethereals in canon is entirely fair to them or to their followerers. Think of it as lots of hand waving. :) I'm trying to work the body of thought without the straight religion into In Nomine. Religion is a creation of Man's, after all, but the Angels might represent the rituals and the ethics and the patterns of beliefs. Imagine an Angel of certain Hindu Festivals, which represents the dancing and the food and the general merriment - which fits with a Novalian quite well. I believe (and this is my own belief) that this would be a much better way of justifying foriegn thought then throwing it up into the Marches. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 12:26:42 -0700 From: "E Kumar" Subject: IN> Roles and what happens if you get caught without one? Sorry if this has been asked before but I've just recently got online. A celestial without a role who gets investigated is A: In really big trouble because they don't exist or B: just slides through the system? Recently had a character without a role try to get back into the States and yadda yadda yadda they got stuck in the bureaucracy and are now being investigated as to who they are. Can the character just use exp. to buy a role and then " Oh sorry Mr. X, you're free to go." So how does that work? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 16:20:46 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Roles and what happens if you get caught without one? General feeling among GMs on this list appears to be that a role represents past work done by someone -- the PC before the story started or some other servitors of their side -- faking records or enacting a certain amount of mortal life. Experience points could not be used to suddenly retrofit people's memories or altering the actual past, but might be spent to represent lots of backstage allies hustling to create fake records for you and hope no one notices the ink is still damp. There might then follow some degree of investigation about how you got caught without the necessary papers. Who was careless, or was it unavoidable, or (for the diabolical) who can we scapegoat? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 15:29:33 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Tether net-book (Re: Tether Sourcebook) At 6:08 PM -0700 7/23/98, Graveyard Greg wrote: >---Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> [...] Well, I might send an Elohite around >> to make BigSadEyes at you if you said you weren't going to buy >> the one I worked my fingers to the bone on, typing and editing >> and squinting at the screen, yea by candlelight even, and making >> the edits with a quill nib in my own blood...) > >Wouldn't it work better having a Mercurian make BigSadEyes at us? :) The Elohite can tailor the BigSadEyes to *just* the right degree, with its resonance... And if I have a really bad day, they turn out to be Habbalah of Nitpicking TO PUNISH THE EVIL CUSTOME... Um. Right. I wouldn't do that. Really. No Demon Princesses here, no. Of course not. >Just let us know when it's up for playtesting, and I'll definitely buy >the Tether book, Elizabeth...fear not! >...and I'm most assuredly buying Fall of the Malakim! I hear that it's going to be available RSN. I'm crossing my fingers. I waaaaaant my copy! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 15:18:04 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting At 11:24 AM +0200 7/24/98, Jasper Reijer Floor wrote: >On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, E Kumar wrote: > >> There is definately a Christian/Catholic overtone to the game, I mean it >> does revolve around celestial Angel and Demons after all,[...] [...] >Hey, this game was made by christians, whadya expect? Actually, the French version was made as *HEAVY* satire of Christianity... There are reasons why Novalis is so fluffy, Eli's so flakey, and Dominic's so harda... um, poker-spined. The English version is toned down, and turned into a much more subtle satire, or even "straight" looks at religion in strange ways... (In the French version, *I think*, the Nephalim were what the SJG version has as the Ethereal Gods. Which really explains Uriel.) So in the French version, Christianity is the ONE TRUE FAITH (sort of), and the angels are all (or so I have heard) dumb-but-powerful while the demons are weak-and-tricky, and humanity is the football in the soccer match. Which means that the SJ Games version is working from roots of almost (almost?) farcical satire, and making something that I think has deeper implications, and more interesting plots available. There will be some uneven growing pains here and there, and other cultures fall squarely into that slot. And once we get some ideas for other cultures, and people who can write them... Well, the universe will grow a little, and Eli will hopefully be pleased. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 13:38:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Jayson Howell Subject: Re: IN> Roles and what happens if you get caught without one? Without a role, he's got nothing. He's just like anyone else with no friends, records, or past. How to obtain a role? There are two schools of thought, neither of which violate canon. One is that roles are built over time. If you don't have one, better build one. The second is that roles purchased retroactively work because relievers can bop into government offices, give you a social security number, a driver's license record, tax returns, etc. They could even find a couple friends or alibis and, using one of those songs of Charm (celestial? ethereal?) suggest, "Hey, that Bob, haven't seen him since high school!"... It's really based on what will you allow. (Personally, I don't like retroactive roles.) -Jayson - ---E Kumar wrote: > > Sorry if this has been asked before but I've just recently got online. > A celestial without a role who gets investigated is A: In really big > trouble because they don't exist or B: just slides through the system? > Recently had a character without a role try to get back into the States and > yadda yadda yadda they got stuck in the bureaucracy and are now being > investigated as to who they are. Can the character just use exp. to buy a > role and then " Oh sorry Mr. X, you're free to go." So how does that work? > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 13:53:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Jayson Howell Subject: Re: IN> Tether net-book (Re: Tether Sourcebook) Me too! Me too! Now that I think of it... here I am, drooling over the entire concept of The Final Trumpet. Let's face it, long before SJGames announced it, I was ready. A fan of Good Omens (Haven't read it? Get to a library now!), I've been thinking of "avert the apocalypse" adventures before I was even a third of the way through the main book. (Who hasn't?) Here I am drooling, slobbering, gnawing on whatever limb happens to be available. Breathlessly anticipating any tiny morsel from the book I crave most. What do I see? Short passages from the book? Little vignettes to lead me into the depths? The slightest tidbit to satiate the crazed desire that keeps me perched on the edge of insanity? Even so much as the cover art to flood upon my desktop and draw me into the embrace of the one epic conflict I've been yearning for so long? No. Nothing. I am dejected. -Jayson "It's not un-manly to cry" Howell - ---Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > > >...and I'm most assuredly buying Fall of the Malakim! > > I hear that it's going to be available RSN. I'm crossing my > fingers. I waaaaaant my copy! > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 18:37:17 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Final Trumpet Chatter (Re: Tether net-book) At 1:53 PM -0700 7/24/98, Jayson Howell wrote: >Here I am drooling, slobbering, gnawing on whatever limb happens to be >available. Breathlessly anticipating any tiny morsel from the book I >crave most. What do I see? Short passages from the book? Little >vignettes to lead me into the depths? The slightest tidbit to satiate >the crazed desire that keeps me perched on the edge of insanity? Even >so much as the cover art to flood upon my desktop and draw me into the >embrace of the one epic conflict I've been yearning for so long? > >No. Nothing. I am dejected. "The earlier events in The Revelations Cycle, from Night Music through Fall of the Malakim, have convinced the more militant Superiors on both sides that the time is right for the final battle -- Armageddon. As the flames of war spread across the world, the angels and demons prepare for battle. Can you save the world from total destruction? More important, *should* you? The Final Trumpet has expanded writeups on Michael, Baal, Kobal and Malphas; two new Superiors -- Khalid, Archangel of Faith, and Magog, Demon Prince of Cruelty; the largest adventure yet published for In Nomine, The Final Trumpet; and rules for combining all five books of The Revelations Cycle into a single mega-campaign. " That was from the website. The cover? I don't know yet. I don't even know if it's *done* yet (though I hope it's close to!). If it's what was being discussed, there's a chance that it will be the best Revelations cover (IMO) in the Cycle. Tidbits? Weeeeelllllll...... Um. No. But I can tell you that our own Maya and Edelstein did some nice work with the Superiors. Alain Dawson (with the Word of Rewrites Gracefully) did some very good work on the adventure. (And yes, she *did* tie in all four of the previous books!) Kenneth Hite is the editor, and also did some co-authoring here and there. Derek Percey, of course, is also featured as author and author to be co-authored with. The Superiors are good. Very good. The adventure is big. The adventure can be a *campaign* if you want to do it that way! And I've been on the continuity hotseat keeping everything in mind. (I think I succeeded, but of course there's Always One More Bug.) You wonder how a small group of PCs can have an effect on something so *big* as Armageddon? Well, sometimes the butterfly fans its wings, and hurricanes happen... (Not to mention more direct tricks.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 16:03:43 -0700 From: Gryph Clarke Subject: Re: IN> Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting Three angels by name, actually. Michael, Gabriel, and Lucifer. Sorry...I saw the Princess of Nitpicking sending out letters and felt overcome by her power and the power of her Word. I had to point that out. ;) - - Gryph Habbalite of Rampaging Pregnancy Hormones in service to Weird Food Cravings Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Jayson Howell wrote: > > > How comfortable and easy it would have been to rely on biblical > > sources and call all other concepts heretical. > > Um. Easy to write, yes. Easy to market, probably not. I feel > pretty sure that SJG makes In Nomine pretty open, theologically, > to avoid unnecessary offense, both as atiquette and as marketing > realism. > > By the way, if you rely on just *biblical* sources, your angelology > is going to be mighty scanty. Western angel lore, which IN draws > on heavily of course, includes lots and lots of legend and theological > speculation. The Bible mentions only two angels by name (Michael > and Gabriel) and only four "species" of angel -- angel, archangel, > cherub, and seraph. You can get a few more by including the > Apocrypha (notably Raphael), but not many. Add the pseudepigrapha > and you really start cooking. Then there are goodies from the > Talmud, the angelology of Pseudo-Dionyius, and the Lilith legend of > the Ben Sira, etc. etc. > > Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 16:15:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Jayson Howell Subject: Re: IN> Final Trumpet Chatter (Re: Tether net-book) - ---Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > That was from the website. Yup. I've kind of been there pretty dang consistently. > > The cover? I don't know yet. I don't even know if it's *done* > yet (though I hope it's close to!). If it's what was being > discussed, there's a chance that it will be the best Revelations > cover (IMO) in the Cycle. Hmmm... Frankly, the main book and Liber Reliquarum have my favorite covers. Not that I don't like flashy covers, it's just that the Revelations Cycle makes me feel like I've eaten a funny mushroom. Rowena's work on the player guides is nice, but I don't like the style in particular. (It reminded me of the "almost but not quite" look of GURPS Space to be honest.) Personally, I'd like Zeleznik to do the covers of an entire In Nomine series. (Hey, I like his work, what can I say.) > > Tidbits? Weeeeelllllll...... Um. No. But I can tell you that > our own Maya and Edelstein did some nice work with the Superiors. > Alain Dawson (with the Word of Rewrites Gracefully) did some very > good work on the adventure. (And yes, she *did* tie in all four > of the previous books!) Kenneth Hite is the editor, and also did > some co-authoring here and there. Derek Percey, of course, is > also featured as author and author to be co-authored with. Yeah, keep goin... > > The Superiors are good. Very good. > > The adventure is big. The adventure can be a *campaign* if you > want to do it that way! And I've been on the continuity hotseat > keeping everything in mind. (I think I succeeded, but of course > there's Always One More Bug.) You wonder how a small group of > PCs can have an effect on something so *big* as Armageddon? > Well, sometimes the butterfly fans its wings, and hurricanes > happen... (Not to mention more direct tricks.) Wait... do you hear that? That was a grown man swooning at the thought. Well, not really, but THANK YOU BETH! How does a party of small PC's affect the war? Uh.... wait a sec, that's a good question. Now I'm excited... -Jayson Howell _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 20:27:22 -0500 From: The Bard Subject: IN> Books Hay folks I have just started to play IN. I have only had the book for a couple of months. I just wanted to know what books do ya'll think should come next. Keep in mind I don't have alot of money (like broke all the time) and the nearist game shop is over an hour and a half away. You knw what I would really like to see. A contest. The winner gets all the core books and an end of the world contest the winner gets the revilations books. Not much chance but a boy can dream. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 19:43:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: IN> Fall of the Malakim intro, and a problem? Hmmmmm....according to the intro of Fall of the Malakim (as typed in the Steve Jackson Webpage), it said the David sent one of his Malakim to L.A. as punishment (I would've sent him to Alabama, but hey, it's David's servitor, not mine). The Malakite cannot act...he must watch. David did this, thinking the dissonance will teach his Malakite a lesson. And that, my friends, bugs me. It won't give the Malakite dissonance, because, and I do quote: "A Malakite will never suffer an evil to live when it's his choice." David ordered him not to act, so it's not the Malakite's decision. No dissonance! Besides, he can always wait, yes? Oh well, just nitpicking. I have faith there's much more involved in the plot than the intro let's us know... Graveyard Greg, waiting patiently for FotM.... _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 19:50:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Final Trumpet Chatter (Re: Tether net-book) - ---Jayson Howell wrote: > How does a party of small PC's affect the war? > > Uh.... wait a sec, that's a good question. Now I'm excited... Think the battle at D-Day..sure, it wasn't a small party, but you get the idea... :) Graveyard Greg, waiting for The Final Trumpet too, just so he can figure out how to connect the adventure in The Marches... _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 23:12:51 -0400 From: Pete Overton Subject: Re: IN> Fall of the Malakim intro, and a problem? >David's servitor, not mine). The Malakite cannot act...he must watch. >David did this, thinking the dissonance will teach his Malakite a >lesson. And that, my friends, bugs me. Well, ignoring the mechanics (as I tend to do), taking a Malakite whose existence is to war upon evil at all times and making them simply watch is the penultimate torture. It's the ultimate classic punishment. Everyone thinks, "Oh, well, just watching, woo, what a big deal THAT is..." but sit down and think about going through your day without affecting change, only watching, and then expand that to your week. Each time you go to act, think that you would be unable to do so and realize quickly what a change that would be if you could not act. Now amplify that to the fact that something you HAVE to do you would be unable to do. Now make it a BURNING, all CONSUMING desire, an obsession beyond all obsessions that drives your very soul, something that you MUST do and woe to those who get in the way. Now imagine you couldn't do that, but you just had to watch. That's a sick, sick punishment. I don't pick up canon material anymore, but I like it, I may use it in my stories. >It won't give the Malakite dissonance, because, and I do quote: "A >Malakite will never suffer an evil to live when it's his choice." >David ordered him not to act, so it's not the Malakite's decision. No >dissonance! Screw dissonance, it'll ANNOY him to hell (almost literally). Of course, no wonder the guy Falls, if his Superior revokes the one thing that the Malakite exists to do, little wonder he'd go rogue, eesh. Pete, still lurking around ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 22:36:59 PDT From: "Doug Muir" Subject: IN> Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting >I'm not entire sure what to _do_ about some of the gods of Hinduism or the >spirits of Ancestors or the religions of Micronesia in an In Nomine sense >and still make them fair to those who follow them. The religions of Micronesia? I used to live there. The native religions, as such, are pretty much gone, although superstitions and certain spiritual concepts still survive. Micronesia is mostly Christian now, though the exact sect varies with each island group -- Catholicism in the Marianas, SDA in Palau, Congregationalism in Kosrae. Were you thinking of some other "nesia" (Poly-, Mela-), or do you know something I don't? >I'm twitchy about >tossing everything in the Marches for Politicall Correct reasons, and >occasionally wonder if what is done to the Ethereals in canon is entirely >fair to them or to their followerers. Mm. Good question. Virtuous Pagans, anyone? Doug Muir dougmuir@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 22:55:59 PDT From: "Doug Muir" Subject: IN> Books and Movies I was just thinking... What books and movies, not obviously connected to Canon, nevertheless make an interesting sort of sense when you look at them in the light of the IN world and system? I'm not talking about obvious stuff like _Good Omens_ or _The Screwtape Letters_. No, more like... mmm... well, I just saw the movie _The Opposite of Sex_ recently. -- If you haven't seen this, let me recommend it; it's a remarkably nasty little movie with some great performances by Christina Ricci (as the *almost* completely evil narrator) and Lisa Kudrow (as the bitter and uptight Cassandra-figure), andeven a nice bit part for Lyle Lovett. -- But anyhow, it occurred to me that the film would make almost uncannily perfect sense if you assumed that DeDee (Ricci's character, the teenage slut who narrates it all) was an Impudite servitor of Andrealphus who picks up some Discord by the end of the movie (probably from shooting her boyfriend halfway through it). So I'm just wondering, has anyone else seen a movie or read a book and then thought something like, oh yeah, this character was *obviously* a Cherub of Eli trying to guard this other character from that Balseraph... Anyone? Doug M. dougmuir@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 02:09:39 -0700 (PDT) From: -=|horsefly|=- Subject: Re: IN> Books and Movies On Fri, 24 Jul 1998, Doug Muir wrote: [snip] _The Opposite of Sex_, huh? i wasn't going to see it, but with a recommendation like that.... :) > So I'm just wondering, has anyone else seen a movie or read a book and > then thought something like, oh yeah, this character was *obviously* a > Cherub of Eli trying to guard this other character from that > Balseraph... > > Anyone? it's late and i'm correspondingly tired, so here's a very *brief* suggestion: Neil Gaiman's book (and BBC radio show, if you can find it), _Neverwhere_. there's something obvious in the book that readers of it will boo and hiss and throw rotten fruit at me for, but get past that. think of the two hitmen in the story. think of how *relentlessly* they chase their querry. *that's* what made me recommmend _Neverwhere_ to this list. good night, all. -=|horsefly|=- "Back off, preacher, I don't care if it's Sunday. I ain't no angel, but I never felt better!" --FREEDOM, Alice Cooper ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 12:54:45 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting >This game is a huge "what if western religion is RIGHT?". Not "What >if western religion is all we can figure out?" There's no reason not >to make a game biased towards eastern beliefs, but this doesn't happen >to be it. In spite of this fact, a lot of hard working writers and >gamers have managed to find a sympathetic place in this cosmology for >other religions. Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are all given equal >credence. Judaism is? Where exactly? - -- Julian jules@bigjules.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 12:14:24 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> Reallllly Off-Topic Dribble...but funny > rock musician disbanded Or a Redeemed Demon? :) - -- Julian jules@bigjules.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:02:51 EDT From: SienarFLT@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Roles and what happens if you get caught without one? In a message dated 98-07-24 16:17:53 EDT, you write: > Sorry if this has been asked before but I've just recently got online. > A celestial without a role who gets investigated is A: In really big > trouble because they don't exist or B: just slides through the system? > Recently had a character without a role try to get back into the States and > yadda yadda yadda they got stuck in the bureaucracy and are now being > investigated as to who they are. Can the character just use exp. to buy a > role and then " Oh sorry Mr. X, you're free to go." So how does that work? I kind of fudge this in my campaign. Many of my player characters do not have roles and as such are just mysterious strangers without an identity (that and I guess I haven't gotten to the point in my game yet where I want to make the players roleplay this out yet, but someday, someday!). During one of my sessions Eli granted one of his servitors a level 1, status 1 role for the sake of one adventure, which consisted pretty much of setting up a job at a television station (PBS) for this character beforehand. Had anyone done any real digging into the background of this "new" employee they would have found nothing about him. Kind of makes me think back to the Highlander movie: I think Connor McLeod willed his money and estate to a youth that had already died and then assumed that identity? Perhaps a level 1 Role is the identity of someone who has already died. Any amount of digging into the identity will show that the person -you- claim to be is actually d e a d. -- Thom. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #874 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.