From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Jul 27 14:40:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21676 for ; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:40:11 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id OAA20140 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:23:07 -0500 Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:23:07 -0500 Message-Id: <199807271923.OAA20140@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #877 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, July 27 1998 Volume 01 : Number 877 In this digest: Re: IN> Roles and what happens if you get caught without one? Re: IN> Final Trumpet Chatter (Re: Tether net-book) Re: IN> Fall of the Malakim intro, and a problem? Re: IN> Books and Movies Re: IN> IN Soundtrack IN> House of parliament (more london) IN> Judaism (OT) IN> Re: IN- Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting Re: IN> Roles and what happens if you get caught without one? Re: IN> IN Soundtrack Re: IN> Re: IN- Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting Re: IN> Roles and what happens if you get caught without one? Re: IN> Sure-fire celestial detector? Re: IN> House of parliament (more london) Re: IN> Valefor and Yves Re: IN> the best way to search the archive Re: IN> Roles and what happens if you get caught without one? Re: IN> Fall of the Malakim intro, and a problem? IN> Movies (I don't read books.) Re: IN> Roles and what happens if you get caught without one? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 12:46:50 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Roles and what happens if you get caught without one? E Kumar wrote: > > Sorry if this has been asked before but I've just recently got online. > A celestial without a role who gets investigated is A: In really big > trouble because they don't exist or B: just slides through the system? > Recently had a character without a role try to get back into the States and > yadda yadda yadda they got stuck in the bureaucracy and are now being > investigated as to who they are. Can the character just use exp. to buy a > role and then " Oh sorry Mr. X, you're free to go." So how does that work? It depends on how much 'reality' goes into the roles in your campaign. Here's how it'd work in mine. Spending xp's would work IF the PCs did enough groundwork to make it look like it was just some bureaucratic snafu or somesuch. Make it plausible after the fact. This might mean owing favors to powerful beings... Just spending the points wouldn't do it! Some GMs go the 'change reality' route. IE, when you spend the points, everyone suddenly remembers that Joe Smith has been working at the company for 20 years and is good friends with everyone. The second option leaves a sour taste in my mouth. If you want a place in the Symphony (as realized by your Role), you have to WORK for it. Mind you, if the PC doesn't like that option, they can just vanish. Sure, this will cause problems down the road, but any sensible character wouldn't have been caught at a border without the proper papers to begin with! ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)380-4629 MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 12:49:27 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Final Trumpet Chatter (Re: Tether net-book) > The adventure is big. The adventure can be a *campaign* if you > want to do it that way! And I've been on the continuity hotseat > keeping everything in mind. (I think I succeeded, but of course > there's Always One More Bug.) You wonder how a small group of > PCs can have an effect on something so *big* as Armageddon? > Well, sometimes the butterfly fans its wings, and hurricanes > happen... (Not to mention more direct tricks.) Hmmmm... howabout an insane servitor of Jordi with many butterfly vessels (A kyrio no doubt) who actually thinks it can control events by flapping its wings? What if it is right? Fun character for a GM to spring on PCs, no doubt! ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)380-4629 MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 98 13:09 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Fall of the Malakim intro, and a problem? >It won't give the Malakite dissonance, because, and I do quote: "A >Malakite will never suffer an evil to live when it's his choice." >David ordered him not to act, so it's not the Malakite's decision. No >dissonance! Don't forget, Malakim have at least *four* oaths; that's only one of them.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 18:07:11 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Books and Movies On Sun, Jul 26, 1998 at 11:22:30PM +0200, Anders Gabrielsson wrote: > On Sun, 26 Jul 1998, Kevin Walsh wrote: > > > As I've said before, Angus Thermopyle from Stephen Donaldson's Gap Series > > is the archetypal Djinn of Fire. The series begins with him capturing a > > young cop named Morn Hyland (clearly a Cherub), and becoming obsessed with > > her in that lovable Djinn way. > > After reading the Gap Series, and also Stephan Grundy's version of the > Sigfrid saga, I got the tip to compare the two, and the parallells are > pretty obvious when you look for them. Would that be the tip at the back of The Real Story? Holt Fasner, who's even called the > Dragon and Fafnir; Warden Dios with one eye and Odin; Hashi Lebwol with > his constant motion His constant motion? I noticed his deviousness, but the only characters with constant motion I noticed were Lane Harbinger and Davies Hyland (the younger). IIRC, he even kept his shoelaces untied in order to help him project an air of physical ineffectiveness. and Loki (who was descended from fire-giants). I've > heard that the Ambioni (if that's what they were called; the aliens > anyway) were inspired by the dwarfs of Norse myth. > The Amnion. Singular: Amnioni. And Min Donner has Thor's name. And Donaldson himself matched Thermopyle to Siegmund and Hyland to Sieglinde, making Davies Siegfried. > To get this back on track, more or less: IMO, you can fit nearly any > character in any novel or movie to some Angel or Demon in IN, simply > because there are so many to choose from, and because many of them are > quite archetypal, in a way. > Should we be trying to find characters who can't be matched to a Choir/Band stereotype, then? Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Yet it cannot be called talent to slay fellow-citizens, to deceive friends, to be without faith, without mercy, without religion; such methods may gain empire, but not glory." Machiavelli, the Prince. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 98 13:11 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> IN Soundtrack >I know, I know, this has all been covered in the archives. > >But the archives spans 800+ different digests. Any idea WHERE in the archives? Try spring (or maybe early summer) of 1997 -- I seem to recall that's when the big string of posts on music went on. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 10:10:47 PDT From: "Martin Arnold" Subject: IN> House of parliament (more london) London continues... Westminster Palace (A Tether to Fate and The Game) "Remember, remember, the fifth of November; gunpowder treason and plot!" Westminster Palace, the home of the Houses of Parliament and the British government, stands on the site of the principal royal residence from Edward the Confessor to Henry VIII. The present buildings were constructed between 1840 and 1860, and comprise Central Hall and corridor with the Houses of Lords and Commons on either side. The State opening of Parliament is late October/early November. The clock tower at the end of the Commons is famous for the bell from which it gets its name: Big Ben. The famous chimes imitate St. Mary's church in Cambridge, and are said to be based on the aria in Handel's Messiah - 'I know that my redeemer liveth' (the accompanying lords are: 'All though this hour Lord be my guide, And thy power no foot shall slide'). It wasn't tolled for Victoria's funeral. This is the location of Kronos tether (although there are other links to and form his Archive); form here one may descend into Hell and the Archive. The clock is 316 feet high and was built in 1859. Next to the tower is Westminster Hall, which survives from the original palace, built as a banquet hall in the 11th century by King William Rufus (son of William the Conqueror). The Hall was the meeting place of the Grand Council, a committee of barons which discussed policy without the monarch in an early version of parliament. Westminster Hall also became the nation's main law court, where people such as Anne Boleyn, Sit Thomas Moore and Charles I were tried and condemned. After the restoration of the monarchy, the royalists avenged themselves for Charles' execution by digging up the body of his parliamentary rival Oliver Cromwell and stocking his head on the roof. It remained there until a strong wind blew it away in 1675. A statue of Cromwell now stands outside. From about 1550, the lower house of parliament, the House of Commons, began meeting in St. Stephen's Chapel in the palace's main body. It was only when St. Stephen's was destroyed in the blitz that the House became an entirely secular chamber. Even today, though, the building has an unmistakable religious aura. If the atmosphere of the medieval parliaments has persisted, the same cannot exactly be said for procedure. It's power was precarious to say the least in its early days, and depended very much on the whims of the reigning monarch. The change began with a provocation that even parliament couldn't tolerate. In 1621 James I tore pages out of the Commons Journal asserting the right to deal with all matters of policy. Parliament felts so antagonised it took steps to bar royalty from its proceedings altogether. In 1642 Charles I became the last monarch ever to set foot inside the hose of Commons, and seven years later parliament abolished the monarchy outright - albeit temporarily - at the end of the civil war. The south wing of the building is dominated by Victoria Tower. Here are stored more than 3 million documents including a master copy of every Act since 1497. As such this building is also linked to the Archive, but also to the Library of Yves as well - and Kronos knows this. As the entire complex is a major infernal stronghold, Asmodeus is not at all pleased about this, but 'trusts' his ally, Kronos, to ensure nothing untoward happens as a result. Strangely enough, given it's prime location, Yves doesn't makes much use of it as a listening post - in much the same way as Kronos not seeming overly bothered about it. A stone lion guards the entrance to Westminster Bridge opposite the Houses. From across the river, the facade is 320 yards long and decorated with statues of rulers from William the Conqueror to Queen Victoria. Space, though, is limited; many MPs' have to share offices scattered around Westminster (and that's how Hell likes it). The Strangers and (as opposed to) Members dining rooms and bars spill out onto the wide terraces, flanked by the Peers and Commons libraries. As the courts will not interfere in this High Court of Parliament the bars here close on the rising of the house, after gone midnight. The magnificent Royal Gallery leads to the House of Lords. The interior of the Lords is decorated in scarlet and gold with a canopied gold throne from which the monarch addresses lords and commoners. The Queen herself comes in through the Victoria gate and sits enthroned here at the State Opening, her lords and bishops around as she reads the Queens Speech (written by the government!); this sets the programme for the next session of Parliament (the parliamentary year). While the real power lies with the Commons, the Lords are an important checking body. There are about 1000 Lords - 760 hereditary peers, 340 life peers (created each year in the Queens New Year and Birthday Honours lists), and 26 archbishops and bishops. About a quarter attend regularly. During debates the Lord Chancellor sits on the Woolsack, a red cushion stuffed with wool from England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland and the Commonwealth. There is also a rifle range below the Lords. Beyond the Lords is Peers Lobby and the Central Lobby, topped by a 300 foot spire. Inside, the octagonal, domed waiting hall is coated with carvings statues and high mosaics of the four patron saints of the United Kingdom (George, Andrew, David and Patrick). This is where Strangers come to listen to debates in the Strangers Gallery. Behind Central Lobby is St. Stephen's Hall, built on the site of the chapel where the Commons developed many of its conventions. Beyond that is the aforementioned Westminster Hall. Members Lobby leads to the Commons, home to about 650 MP's (Members of Parliament). This is the site of Asmodeus' main tether to Hades; it's Byzantine traditions and politics-as-sport reputation all create the link to Hell. The layout follows that of St. Stephen's chapel; the Speaker sits centrally, the government on the right and the opposition on the left. The front benches are behind red ,lines put there originally to prevent sword fights. Before business can start, the Speaker and Sarjeant-at-Arms arrive in procession. The Sarjeant places the mace, which symbolises the delegation of royal authority, on the table, prayers are said before the Members can sit. Front bench spokesmen bash their despatch boxes to make a point, while backbenchers cheer and jeer. When its time to vote, the Division Bells ring long and loud through every corridor (and several Westminster offices, pubs, homes and restaurants). MP's not present have 8 minutes to reach either the 'aye' or 'noe' division lobby parallel with the chamber. The light above Big Ben indicates that parliament is presently sitting. Seneschals: As the complex is effectively shared between Asmodeus and Kronos, there are two Seneschals operating here. Most of the time the carry out their own affairs alone, only meeting to discuss matters of the utmost gravity. Heaven is always wary of such times - usually during a late sitting (when Big Ben is illuminated in the London night). Both are members of London's 'Old Guard' and are very powerful on their own, together they are a force to be reckoned with. The ongoing rituals and politics that Westminster Palace is home to only enforce their powers; as a result they are fiercely opposed to change of any kind (having a female Speaker was a fine example of this). Caveatal is Asmodeus Seneschal (see H&H - but her he's likely to be more powerful and possibly Shedite); here he retains his Word with particular relevance to passing and amending Acts of Parliament. He maintains a quiet office within the building, but can often be found playing chess with servants and lackeys (and even Cedron) in the palace's chess room. Incidentally the Houses also contain a chess room (which serves as another juncture to Hades); chess being the only, other, game allowed here. No celestial bearing Discord can hide it from Caveatal's attentions when inside the Commons or the Lords, and while there they must play by his rules of the Game. (This is in addition to the two new servitor Attunements in H&H.) In addition, he can grant any Demon humanity (as per the Attunement) when inside. His Rites are: (in addition to his Word's rights - changed to fit the Commons however). Cause a sitting to take twice as long as usual (preferably throughout the night) or cause a bill to take even longer to go through parliament (by adding amendments etc.) +1 Cedron is Kronos' Seneschal, operating primarily from within the records office in Victoria, he can often be found, though, meditating at the top of Big Ben, gazing down on a country he slowly strives to move toward the pit. The clock tower itself, through infernal power, can enable Cedron to use a much stronger (MUCH) version of both the Temporal Projection and the Window of Time Attunements (GM's caveat). His aims are lofty, but he feels empowered to do so. As a Habbalite he serves Kronos by causing more division and tension between the political viewpoints in Britain. His efforts do nothing to harm Caveatal's own efforts and often they can help by enforcing the labyrinthine nature of politics. Cedron is also wordbound and carries the word of Indolence - he works to make people too lazy to change things for the better so that they slide effortlessly to their fates without caring. The political system is ripe for the taking, and, through careful manipulation, opposed to healthy change and reformation. His special rites are: Cause someone to miss out an opportunity through their own idleness or give up on a worthy task +1 (or cause a worthy bill/act to be abandoned for the same reasons) Watch someone die from inside the clock tower +1 (+2 if ringing at the time!) Ironically, the two could always have been the most powerful celestials in London, but their own ambitions seem to prevent this. while they work together (as well as any demons), both have designs on running the place alone. * * * * * * * * * * * Comments welcome, as always... Marnie "Angels fly because they take themselves lightly" (Alan Watts) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 10:20:46 PDT From: "Doug Muir" Subject: IN> Judaism (OT) >In general, any credence given to Christianity can also be applied >to Judiasm, since Christianity affirms essentially everything >Judaism does. Sorry, Earl. While I don't agree with the person who said this was an _offensive_ statement, I do think it is just plain wrong. To name just a few obvious examples, Judaism does _not_ have a Heaven and Hell in the Christian sense; does not have a clear concept of "salvation" in the Christian sense; and makes quite a lot of demands on its adherents that Christianity does not (circumcision and the dietary laws are the most famous, but there are plenty more). To give a *very* crude metaphor, it's like saying that Windows 95/98 is essentially the same as the Mac OS. T'ain't so. There are numerous similarities, in part because one copied from/was inspired by the other... but the underlying systems are very different, and they won't run the same software. Doug M. dougmuir@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 10:26:01 PDT From: "Doug Muir" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting >In general, any credence given to Christianity can also be applied >to Judiasm, since Christianity affirms essentially everything >Judaism does. Sorry, Earl. While I don't agree with the person who said this was an _offensive_ statement, I do think it is just plain wrong. To name just a few obvious examples, Judaism does _not_ have a Heaven and Hell in the Christian sense; does not have a clear concept of "salvation" in the Christian sense; and makes quite a lot of demands on its adherents that Christianity does not (circumcision and the dietary laws are the most famous, but there are plenty more). And, oh yeah, there's the Messiah... the Jewish Messiah is a figure quite significantly different from Jesus Christ (he's not God, for one thing). To use a *very* crude metaphor, it's like saying that Windows 95/98 is "essentially the same" as the Mac OS. T'ain't so. There are numerous similarities, in part because one (ripped off/copied from/was inspired by) the other... but the underlying systems are very different, and they won't run the same software. Doug M. dougmuir@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 10:14:53 -0700 From: "E Kumar" Subject: Re: IN> Roles and what happens if you get caught without one? Can the character just use exp. to buy a > > role and then " Oh sorry Mr. X, you're free to go." So how does that work? Thanks. I think I'm gonna let him sweat it out this time. OTOH as starting characters come into the game I do allow that they have "reality changing roles" *only if this is their first time on earth*. I figure Yves and their Archangel would have a grasp of what the angels destiny and duties are, respectively and so have a place set up for the Angel. One PC started out as an NPC's brother! ( After she found out, of course, the level 6 role was dropped to a level 2 because she was the focus) Now her friends are like "Oh, Your brother? I forgot you had one!" , and his 'parents' think they've disowned him or whatever. I wouldn't allow a reality change now that they're on earth but I figure a celestial being can do some pretty cool stuff on their first descent from heaven. Can Demons do the same thing on their first ascent from hell to earth? You bet!! Scary, you always knew your best friend was a liar! Akira-- - ---------- > From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Subject: Re: IN> Roles and what happens if you get caught without one? > Date: Monday, July 27, 1998 9:46 AM > > E Kumar wrote: > > > > Sorry if this has been asked before but I've just recently got online. > > A celestial without a role who gets investigated is A: In really big > > trouble because they don't exist or B: just slides through the system? > > Recently had a character without a role try to get back into the States and > > yadda yadda yadda they got stuck in the bureaucracy and are now being > > investigated as to who they are. Can the character just use exp. to buy a > > role and then " Oh sorry Mr. X, you're free to go." So how does that work? > > It depends on how much 'reality' goes into the roles > in your campaign. Here's how it'd work in mine. > > Spending xp's would work IF the PCs did enough > groundwork to make it look like it was just some bureaucratic > snafu or somesuch. Make it plausible after the fact. This > might mean owing favors to powerful beings... Just spending > the points wouldn't do it! > > Some GMs go the 'change reality' route. IE, when > you spend the points, everyone suddenly remembers that Joe > Smith has been working at the company for 20 years and is > good friends with everyone. > > The second option leaves a sour taste in my mouth. > If you want a place in the Symphony (as realized by your > Role), you have to WORK for it. Mind you, if the PC doesn't > like that option, they can just vanish. Sure, this will > cause problems down the road, but any sensible character > wouldn't have been caught at a border without the proper > papers to begin with! ;) > > -- > ___________________________________________________ > / \ > | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | > | (919)380-4629 MIB2300 | > | | > | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | > | -Chief Justice Marshall | > \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 12:54:28 -0500 From: Uncle Wolf Subject: Re: IN> IN Soundtrack > >I know, I know, this has all been covered in the archives. > > > >But the archives spans 800+ different digests. Any idea WHERE in the archives? > Walter Milliken wrote: > Try spring (or maybe early summer) of 1997 -- I seem to recall that's > when the big string of posts on music went on. As one of the folks in that string, I seem to recall it being somewhere around May '97. tom timberlake, cadre Cherub of Heaven ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:54:28 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Eastern religion in the In-Nomine setting Doug Muir wrote: > >In general, any credence given to Christianity can also be applied > >to Judiasm, since Christianity affirms essentially everything > >Judaism does. > > Sorry, Earl. While I don't agree with the person who said this was an > _offensive_ statement, I do think it is just plain wrong. Since more than one person seems to have misunderstood me, I will try to explain more fully what I meant by "affirm." Not everthing a religion teaches in an affirmation. Religions also teach denials. Religions also leave questions unaddressed, and if one religion affirms A, B, & C while another religion affirms A & B but does not address or denies C, then the first religion affirms everything the second religion does, though the two are not in agreement. In the case of Christianity and Judaism: Both religions affirm the following: - - There is only one God, creator of the universe, perfect and righteous, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent. - - God chose the nation of Israel as His own people. - - God gave them the Law, as described in the following books:... - - God spoke through the prophets, as described in the following books... Both religions deny the following: - - There are any other beings worthy of worship. - - The divine can or should be worshipped by idolatry. > To name just a few obvious examples, Judaism does _not_ have a Heaven > and Hell in the Christian sense; does not have a clear concept of > "salvation" in the Christian sense; and makes quite a lot of demands > on its adherents that Christianity does not (circumcision and the > dietary laws are the most famous, but there are plenty more). And, > oh yeah, there's the Messiah... the Jewish Messiah is a figure quite > significantly different from Jesus Christ (he's not God, for one > thing). Most of these are things that Christianity affirms but Judaism either does not address or denies. None of them are things that Judaism affirms and Christianity denies. I know it is always possible to case an affirmation into the form of a denial, or vice versa, by twisting the semantics around properly, but most propositions have a natural form that is one or the other. Even the bit about circumcision and dietary law are actually things Christianity and Judaism agree on. Judaism affirms that God commanded the Jews to perform these practices, but that He did not command the gentiles to do so. Christianity agrees completely; being gentiles, most Christians don't bother to do them. I hope I've made myself clearer, since this isn't very connected to IN. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:57:40 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Roles and what happens if you get caught without one? This just struck me: Celestials are supposed to be very concerned about interfering with the Symphony. A reality re-write strikes me as a very major interference. Shouldn't it cause an enormous disturbance? This would be another argument for doing Roles by forgery and imposture. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:05:55 -0400 From: neel@cswv.com (Neel Krishnaswami) Subject: Re: IN> Sure-fire celestial detector? Kirt Dankmyer wrote: > >> A PC came up with a trivial way to determine whether a given person >> is a celestial or not -- use the Corporeal Song of Dreams on the >> target. If there is a dreamscape, then you know the target is human. >> If there isn't one, then you know the target is a celestial. >> >> For my own game, this is perfectly fine (there are solid reasons >> why his idea should work IMC), but the list consensus makes a big >> deal about how hard it is to identify celestials, so I thought I'd >> point it out. > >There are always ways. The thing is, every way has a disadvantage. In the case >of the method you mention, there's the fact that Songs make noise... Most methods pose the risk that by trying to find out whether or not someone is a celestial, you risk revealing your own nature. This method does not, since in order to use the Song of Dreams you only need to have seen the target. There is no proximity requirement. So you get a look at the person you want to ID, and wander off far away. Then you fire up the Song and check up on him, without any fear of compromising your own cover. Unless celestials are really thick on the ground, a single Song isn't going to create enough disturbance to notice. Even a 6 Celestial Force, 12 Perception character won't notice a level 5 disturbance if it happens more than a few hundred yards away. >The other sure-fire way is to hit them. If they're a Celstial, that won't make >noise. This doesn't work for Kyriotates and Shedim, but neither does your >method -- a person possessed by a Kyrio goes to the Marches, IIRC, and the mind >of a Shedim victim is still there, and capable of dreaming, IMHO. It still works, at least on Kyrios. Use the song when they seem to be awake, and if you can enter the dreamscape, they are obviously possessed. It doesn't distinguish between Kyrios and songs of posssession, but there you go. I don't know if it works on Shedim, though -- I don't know how human dreaming and Shedim possessions interact in canon, but I answered that question in my game like this. I ruled that the reason that a Shedite possession seems like a dream-state to the human is because the human being is actually dreaming -- the possession sends the human to his dreamscape, which always looks like a dream version of the things the Shedite is doing. A PC who wanted to contact a reclusive Shedite IMC used the Corporeal Song of Dreams to enter the dreamscape of the possessed person, and then used the Celestial Song of Dreams to edit every billboard on the street to carry the message he wanted to give the Shedite. I thought that was pretty neat. >Another fun method, BTW, is to blow a point of Essence while doing a minor >"skill roll" near the person you want to ping, and if they glance at you >sharply, they're probably Celesital. I figure you gotta be really cool not to >look when someone disturbs the Symphony, so you can see who did it. ;) I just go with PC descriptions of how they respond to this, actually. Though more often the Mercurians and Malakim figure out demonic status before anyone burns Essence. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:04:14 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> House of parliament (more london) Martin Arnold wrote: > Comments welcome, as always... > > Marnie > "Angels fly because they take themselves lightly" (Alan Watts) I'm sure this isn't the kind of comment you were looking for, but, while I'm sure Alan Watts used the above quote, it actually originates with G. K. Chesterton. Ignorant questions: Why wasn't Big Ben tolled for Victoria's funeral. Or is it usually not tolled for royal funerals? How many Anglican archbishops are there? I know of Canterbury and York. Have you done a write-up of Westminster Abbey? If not, will you? With all these saints represented -- George, Andrew, David, Patrick, Stephen -- are any of them actually hanging about, looking after the doings of their one-time flocks? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 98 14:12 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Valefor and Yves >Previous discussion on the list has brought up the information the Janus >used to work for the Archangel of confusion and has a resonance that >enables him to pretend to be a demon. As far as I know, this is either a) someone's theory or b) something out of the original French version. As far as I know, the above isn't canon in the SJGames version. > Since recieving this resonance he has >worked his way up both sides hierachy and ie Archangel of Wind and in his >disguise [Where hs calls himself Valefor] , Demon Prince of Theft. The >Amercian Version does not state this explicitly but you will notice the >similarities in Resonances and such like for these two. The SJGames version doesn't necessarily follow the French one, so if that's where this idea came from, don't expect it to be true for In Nomine. There are a *lot* of changes from the French version, and, as far as I know, most of the SJGames authors have never seen INS/MV. Derek almost certainly has, since he wrote the core book, but a lot of other people have gotten into the act since then. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 98 14:15 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> the best way to search the archive >> But the archives spans 800+ different digests. Any idea WHERE in the archives? > >This does raise a vaid issue -- it'd be nice if there were some way to >catalog/index the archives of the mailing list. (I would say the same >thing about the GURPS mailing list, for instance.) However, I can't >think of a way for it to be done with either requiring a lot of CPU time >for word searches (which would then return as much unrelated stuff as >your typical web engine search), or requiring a _whole_ lot of human time >adding keywords and index words to messages that come in. > >Are there any ideas on this, or should the archives just remain the huge >monolith that they are now? It might be worth setting up a KWIC index of the Subject lines of all messages, though those aren't always the most reliable indicator of topic. That's a pretty mechanical process that could be done with a Perl script, and the total number of subjects over the life of the mailing list probably isn't too huge. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 98 14:21 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Roles and what happens if you get caught without one? >This just struck me: Celestials are supposed to be very concerned >about interfering with the Symphony. A reality re-write strikes >me as a very major interference. Shouldn't it cause an >enormous disturbance? This would be another argument for doing >Roles by forgery and imposture. It doesn't have to be a reality rewrite, which I agree would be a big deal. It seems prefectly reasonable that people's memories could be tinkered with, as well. "Oh, yeah, I remember George from high school - -- quiet guy, hardly anyone noticed him." Those kinds of trivial memories could be added without major disturbance, I believe, probably with a Song. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 11:31:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Fall of the Malakim intro, and a problem? - ---Walter Milliken wrote: > > >It won't give the Malakite dissonance, because, and I do quote: "A > >Malakite will never suffer an evil to live when it's his choice." > >David ordered him not to act, so it's not the Malakite's decision. No > >dissonance! > > Don't forget, Malakim have at least *four* oaths; that's only one of > them.... > > > ---Walter > Yeah, I also thought of that....This particular Malakite may have an oath of Kill any Demon immediately... Graveyard Greg, waiting for FotM.....and waiting.... _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 11:53:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Jayson Howell Subject: IN> Movies (I don't read books.) Once again, the happy little mercurian Querent, Angel of Widescreen is called upon to go to town. And so, I shall: The Godfather trilogy Al Pacino is a budding Balseraph of the Game on his rise to power. All throughout the film, he's constantly changing his mind, or outright lying, but ALWAYS he feels justified. There seem to be mitigating circumstances to his world view. He plays his colleagues like chess pieces in a game he demands to ultimately win. (Brando and Deniro both give great performances as the archetypical Lilim of the Game, Don Vito Corleone.) City of Angels Ok, Duh. You figured out it's about angels, bravo. It's not here to mock you. Just here because, if you haven't seen it, do. Even if you hate romances, even if you hate Meg Ryan, even if Sleepless in Seattle made you gag, see this one. Cage gives one of the better portrayals of an Angel looking at the human condition from the outside that I've ever seen. A great film to get the feel of "how would a Celestial see that?" The Golden Child Eddie Murphy's film about a "chosen one" destined to save a young buddhist savior of humanity. Murphy's character seems no more of a Soldier, but he's definitely involved with some Celestials. I watched this the other day, and noted that despite it's blatantly oriental focus, it fits in well with the In Nomine cosmology. Powder A Mercurian of Lightning in an albino vessel who makes good use of his Generator attunement. Most of his forces seem to be in the Ethereal. Overall, a much better film than I was expecting. Dreamscape A great plot in both the Corporeal and Ethereal realms between servants of Beleth and Blandine. Benji the Hunted Ok, overall it's a bid odd, but it's got a great scruffy little Cherub of Animals who gets lost in the forest and makes life better for some of the cute little animals in trouble there. Just shut up and watch it before you send me the terrible hate mail. Wag the Dog Deniro's Balseraph of the Media is great fun. Need to use the press to literally alter the reality of worldwide events for millions of people? Not a problem... (TV) Millenium I started watching this Chris Carter series for Lance Henrikson alone. I thought early on that this suddenly made Elohim a bit more appealing to play. In a memorable episode last season, 4 true to life demons get together and discuss the life of an infernal in the 20th century. VERY fun to watch. Interesting points about the human psyche, and how much intervention is actually necessary to further the cause of evil. Not available yet on Video, but worth watching for. (TV) Quantum Leap How can a Kyriotate's possession of an unwilling host possibly be benevolent? If the Kyrio's name was Dr. Sam Beckett, who would argue? There are others, I'm sure, but these are the ones off the top of my head. -Jayson Howell Querent, Angel of Widescreen _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 12:02:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Jayson Howell Subject: Re: IN> Roles and what happens if you get caught without one? I've a friend in a game who recently did this, indirectly. The Celestial Song of Charm came in handy. He dropped the mundane clerk's will to 1, then started in with "It's me! You don't remember me at all? Sure you do! We use to hang out in band together!"... For the rest of the game, she was treating him like an old friend. The human mind is a lot more maleable than most people give it credit for. This is part of the reason testimony under hypnosis is inadmissable in court. Granted, he wasn't building a role, but if he wanted to, this is a method that'd work well. All he needs now is a birth certificate and some legal papers stashed in various files. -Jayson - ---Walter Milliken wrote: > > >This just struck me: Celestials are supposed to be very concerned > >about interfering with the Symphony. A reality re-write strikes > >me as a very major interference. Shouldn't it cause an > >enormous disturbance? This would be another argument for doing > >Roles by forgery and imposture. > > It doesn't have to be a reality rewrite, which I agree would be a big > deal. It seems prefectly reasonable that people's memories could be > tinkered with, as well. "Oh, yeah, I remember George from high school > -- quiet guy, hardly anyone noticed him." Those kinds of trivial > memories could be added without major disturbance, I believe, probably > with a Song. > > > ---Walter > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #877 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.