From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Aug 3 08:11:08 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA20689 for ; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 08:11:08 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id IAA17137 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 3 Aug 1998 08:12:05 -0500 Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 08:12:05 -0500 Message-Id: <199808031312.IAA17137@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #892 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, August 3 1998 Volume 01 : Number 892 In this digest: IN> Lost Words? IN> IN- Lost Words? Re: IN> Roles Re: IN> Roles Re: IN> Roles Re: IN> Hell on Earth IN> I like In Nomine, not Havic Re: IN> HELLO ANY BODY HOME Re: IN> Roles Re: IN> HELLO ANY BODY HOME Re: IN> Roles Re: IN> Musings on Magog Re: IN> Roles Re: IN> Musings on Magog IN> Night Music Treaty IN> an apology from HAVIC Re: IN> Musings on Magog and just a Braindump Re: IN> Night Music Treaty IN> A new Archangel and plot seed. Re: IN> Night Music Treaty Re: IN> HELLO ANY BODY HOME Re: IN> IN- Why not spread the Word (was RE: Roles and what to do...) Re: IN> IN- Why not spread the Word (was RE: Roles and what to do...) Re: IN> HELLO ANY BODY HOME Re: IN> HELLO ANY BODY HOME Re: IN> Hell on Earth Re: IN> IN- Why not spread the Word (was RE: Roles and what to do...) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 12:19:10 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> Lost Words? From: Julian Breen >In Hell, aside from being ridiculed, unless he has the favour of his Prince and can prove that he will be useful in another way (or the Prince thinks that there may be some kind of revival for his Word), then he's probably going to get familiar with Hell's euthanasia policies.< Well Vapula does need something to use to fuel most of his devices... Adam Dahak@Compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 12:19:03 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> IN- Lost Words? From: "Doug Muir" > The Demon of CDs is fairly important right now, but in fifty years he's going to be drinking in the same cruddy bar as the Angel of 8-tracks and the Demon of Betamax. *Something* -- DVDs, panmagnetic type, telepathy, something -- is going to make them quite obsolete within that time.< The Angel of recording media is going to be fine however. Adam Dahak@Compuserve.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 11:19:14 -0500 From: The Bard Subject: Re: IN> Roles I stayed out of this Role thing for along time but I must point something out. In the main rule book it says when talking about the cop "No amount of 'checking up' wil reveal you" That is NO AMOUNT OF CHECKING UP. This includes getting a copy of your old high school year book and talking to friends at the acadimey. Thay may say he was quiet and not remember much but you will be there becauses NO AMOUNT OF CHECKING UP WILL REVEAL YOU. This is cannon from the main rule book. Andrew Frades wrote: > Armand wrote: > > > If you are going to play with paperwork, everyone needs a birth > > certificate. Give me some low level Roles that don't need one, and I'll > > tell you why it does. This is a Cold War, and what better way to stick it > > to Gerry than by blowing his cover? > > Just on the side, I feel it necessary to chime in here on the subject of > paperwork, etc. > > I have the only raised seal copy of my birth certificate in existance. The > hospital and state that I was born in have copies of mine which they did not > know was missing until I lost mine and needed another copy at which point a > frantic search was engaged on my end. Needless to say I found it. At the time > it was a pain, but as it was said to me, thay assume that I was born and > eventually it will all get worked out whether I found my certificate or not. > > Here's my take on this for IN. > > I would imagine that this is how many identities are started (at least for low > level roles). Have a celestial plant some corroberating evidence as to their > existance (such as a stolen Social Security card) and get a newly made birth > certificate. Then apply for a new Social Security number under this new > certificate (State and Federal paperwork does not mix so I imagine that this > would fly quite well). From there it is just a matter of running around and > getting all of the various amenities. > > My take on roles is that they never break if a person is just identifying a > paper trail. All the paperwork is there, that is part of being a role. When > it does break is when you begin talking to the persons contemporaries and none > of them remember this person who they worked with all through school. Etc. > > In other words, a role is like Clark Kent's glasses. He puts them on and > nobody knows he's Superman. > > Another little thing that came up when I talked to someone the other day about > roles (we talked about Kyriotates too, don't even ask). > > Why don't both sides have corporeal agents working on reading paper trails to > look for little idiosyncracies that might point to a celestial in corporeal > form? > > My take... They do, that's why roles are so good at what they do. No amount > of paper shuffling will do more than give hints and more often than not the > hints point at some mortal who was unlucky enough to have his/her birth > certificate lost by a beaurocrat at some point. Occasionally the little > buggers do get some useful data so they keep at it though. > > Peace, > Andrew ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 13:25:59 -0500 From: Eeyore Subject: Re: IN> Roles The Bard wrote: > I stayed out of this Role thing for along time but I must point something out. In > the main rule book it says when talking about the cop "No amount of 'checking up' > wil reveal you" That is NO AMOUNT OF CHECKING UP. This includes getting a copy of > your old high school year book and talking to friends at the acadimey. Thay may say > he was quiet and not remember much but you will be there becauses NO AMOUNT OF > CHECKING UP WILL REVEAL YOU. This is cannon from the main rule book. But the question is: How do they get this way? The length of the discussion is that we're having a lot of trouble explaining this part of canon, or figuring out how often you can let it happen. I suppose that we could try coming at this from the other direction. Perhaps there is something about a high level role that keeps others from checking up on the background, or makes them assume that they or someone else already has. Much like the difference in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy between true invisibility, and a Someone Else's Problem Field. You just never realize that someone doesn't have the right documentation. It'd be a bit tricky to handle when PCs try to investigate someone with a Role. I'm not sure that I really like this approach, but it might bear some consideration. J. Michael Neal ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 14:02:59 -0500 From: The Bard Subject: Re: IN> Roles > But the question is: How do they get this way? The length of the discussion is that > we're having a lot of trouble explaining this part of canon, or figuring out how often > you can let it happen. It is devine (or infernal) intervention. The arch angels and demon princes have altered reality before of course thay can forge some documents and memories. Thats wheree thay came from. As for how often you should let it happen depends on the story and the players. No two instances are the same. > > > I suppose that we could try coming at this from the other direction. Perhaps there is > something about a high level role that keeps others from checking up on the background, > or makes them assume that they or someone else already has. Oh it has no effect on the mind. You still want to check things up. IMO > It'd be a bit tricky to handle when PCs try to investigate someone with > a Role. I know and I love to tricky with my players. ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 21:23:33 +0100 From: "The Anti-Santa" Subject: Re: IN> Hell on Earth >Actually, Hell is a town in SW Michigan.< Brings a whole new meaning to the term "Go to Hell!!!" Nagasaki "`If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.'"-- Zaphod Beeblebrox ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 13:52:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: IN> I like In Nomine, not Havic - ---havic@erols.com wrote: > > > Dear HAVIC Fan: I ain't a Havic Fan, and something tells me that this is off topic, so let me segue! OK, I hear that Atlas Games is going to represent SJG (which I'm just going to enjoy the fact that there will be "stuff" there for me to drool over!). I hope that this means there will be IN NOMINE stuff (t-shirts, maybe?) for me to get! :) Graveyard Greg, changer of topics... _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 13:58:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> HELLO ANY BODY HOME - ---SienarFLT@aol.com wrote: > And of course some of us quietly save all the useful stuff to use in our games > without feeling the -need- to comment on any of it. I personally will not > waste the time and space sending a post that says "hey I liked it" and nothing > else. > > But some of us need the gratification. :) Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 13:50:28 -0700 From: "Akira" Subject: Re: IN> Roles For a good example of Roles in movies and justa fun flick( which could be interpreted as an Elohim) check out " The Zero Effect", with Bill Pullman. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 17:48:04 -0500 From: The Bard Subject: Re: IN> HELLO ANY BODY HOME Graveyard Greg wrote: > ---SienarFLT@aol.com wrote: > > And of course some of us quietly save all the useful stuff to use in > our games > > without feeling the -need- to comment on any of it. I personally > will not > > waste the time and space sending a post that says "hey I liked it" > and nothing > > else. > > > > > > But some of us need the gratification. :) Yes how are we supose to know if people like what we are talking about. And compliments help make friends :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 21:17:47 EDT From: SienarFLT@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Roles In a message dated 8/2/98 11:28:28 AM EST, bard@chipshot.net writes: > I stayed out of this Role thing for along time but I must point something out. > In > the main rule book it says when talking about the cop "No amount of ' > checking up' > wil reveal you" That is NO AMOUNT OF CHECKING UP. This includes getting a > copy of > your old high school year book and talking to friends at the acadimey. Thay > may say > he was quiet and not remember much but you will be there becauses NO AMOUNT > OF > CHECKING UP WILL REVEAL YOU. This is cannon from the main rule book. > Just out of curiosity, which page was this "cop" reference on? It wasn't part of any of the NPC listings in the back (which by the way, just as a note, none of the NPC's have roles listed I don't think, and perhaps don't need them). Was the reference in one of the vignettes? If so, some of what has been in the fictionalized portion of IN books has already been questioned as to how much of it is indeed canon. A large part of the comment above depends on what level role the character has, and I would gather from the comment it must be a level 6, but there was no mention to stats, which leads me to the question I asked: what page? -- Thom. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 02:27:50 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> Musings on Magog Em wrote: >Today, we can still see some of the blue paint on the headdress of the >Sphinx from where Thothmosis IV had it repainted, along with several >discovered excavated tablets which tell this story. > The head of the Sphinx has generally been recognised as being the likeness of the pharoah Khafre, but there is much debate nowadays. This includes a notion that the head of the Sphinx as we know it is _not_ the original one... Hmmm... Maybe we have a remaining (tail-end) representation of AA David's *original* cherubic form? ;) - -- Julian ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 20:35:27 -0500 From: The Bard Subject: Re: IN> Roles > Just out of curiosity, which page was this "cop" reference on? It wasn't part > of any of the NPC listings in the back (which by the way, just as a note, none > of the NPC's have roles listed I don't think, and perhaps don't need them). > Was the reference in one of the vignettes? If so, some of what has been in > the fictionalized portion of IN books has already been questioned as to how > much of it is indeed canon. A large part of the comment above depends on what > level role the character has, and I would gather from the comment it must be a > level 6, but there was no mention to stats, which leads me to the question I > asked: what page? > > -- Thom. Pg. 43 under heading Roles parigraph 3 Line 3 Also re-read role levals (PG 43, under heading Roles, sub-heading role levels) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 20:37:44 -0500 From: The Bard Subject: Re: IN> Musings on Magog Very interesting idea Hmmmmmmmm Julian Breen wrote: > Em wrote: > > > > >Today, we can still see some of the blue paint on the headdress of the > >Sphinx from where Thothmosis IV had it repainted, along with several > >discovered excavated tablets which tell this story. > > > The head of the Sphinx has generally been recognised as being the > likeness of the pharoah Khafre, but there is much debate nowadays. This > includes a notion that the head of the Sphinx as we know it is _not_ the > original one... > > Hmmm... Maybe we have a remaining (tail-end) representation of AA > David's *original* cherubic form? > > ;) > > -- > Julian ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 20:43:20 -0500 From: The Bard Subject: IN> Night Music Treaty I am fully intending on buying the Night Music book. But I am starting a game set in Austen very soon and I won't be able to get my hands on the book before then. So could someone tell me the exact terms of the peace treaty. along with just a couple of Teathers. I am nottring to get out of buying the book just want to go ahead and get started. Thanxs in advance. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 22:29:57 -0400 (EDT) From: havic@erols.com Subject: IN> an apology from HAVIC Dear Sir or Madam: We apologize for the e-mail sent earlier. Our e-mail lists were accidentally mixed. We have corrected this problem, and your e-mail address has been removed from our list. If you wish to receive further e-mails, please request to be on our e-mail list at www.HAVIC6.com. We appologise for any inconvienance this may have caused. Sincerely, Peter Gray PGI Limited www.HAVIC6.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 23:55:21 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Emily K. Dresner" Subject: Re: IN> Musings on Magog and just a Braindump > The head of the Sphinx has generally been recognised as being the > likeness of the pharoah Khafre, but there is much debate nowadays. This > includes a notion that the head of the Sphinx as we know it is _not_ the > original one... A little more segue.... What fascinates me is that Thothmosis IV is credited with the first archeological excavation of the Sphinx. By the time that he lived - the son of Amenhotep II, so that Thothmosis III was his grandfather, making it the mid-18th dynasty - the artifacts of the Old Kingdom had been built and forgotten for 2000 years. The monuments were mindbogglingly ancient then, and Thothmosis IV was replacing the paint that was in the state that it's in now, mostly worn off. We know what is on there is his paint, because he left big tablets with inventory requisitions for the reconstruction. But since this is the In Nomine list, and I've been fighting something ugly in my chest that really wants to become pneumonic all weekend, I'll add some corrections to the MARCHES on the state of Egyptian gods. What the heck. On the name "Heliopolis", Gardner's Grammar coughs up the true name of the city, "Iwnw" or in English, the City of Columns. The name, "The Heliopolians" is incorrect, as it's the basis of the Ennead, but not for several of the Gods listed in the passage. Furthermore, several of them had seats of worship elsewhere - the Cult of Osiris was based in Abydos, the Cult of Thoth at Hermapolis, the Cult of Hathor at Dendera. The Gods were broken up into two pantheons, the Ennead and the Ogdoad. Ennead is written as "psdjt" or "The Company of the Nine Gods" while the Ogdoad is just a colloquial name for the Eight. These are two completely different systems of mythological thought, formed at different times, one from the Upper Egypt (Old Kingdom - Ennead), one for the Lower (Predynastic - Ogdoad). Which system was popular depends on which point you talk about in Egyptian history, as earlier was more affiliated with the Ogdoad since the seat of power was at Memphis, and later moved to the Ennead when it was moved closer to Thebian themes, and influenced by the Heliopolian priests and the cult at Abydos. The Ogdoad was formed at Hermapolis, known as Shmun to the Egyptians and Ashmunayn to the modern day Arabic state. The gods were in 4 pairs to symbolize the formation of the world, in male-female pairs: Huh and Huhet [primeval darkness], Kuk and Kuket [primeval light], Nun and Nunet [the ocean] and Amon and Amonet [the air]. These formed the primeval creation of the world - the creation myths get pretty bizarre. Later, Amon became fused with both Nun and Re and became Amon-Re, the Invisible One, who is Nun the Older One, the progenitor of the world. Part of this theology is Ptah, the Creater, the Potter, who formed the land from the ocean, and Thoth, as an Ibis, who laid the egg that brought forth the sun, Ra. [Re: Pyramid Texts. Go read 'em at your leisure.] The Ennead is radically different, and it is also less intellectual in nature. From all forms, it was likely formed around the Fifth Dynasty in Heliopolis, and it reflected warring city-states, or nomes. The creator of the world is Atum, and from him came Shu and Tefnut (air and moisture), Geb and Nut (earth and sky), Osiris and Isis, Set and Nephthys. This is what modern people who are goofy about so-called "Egyptian Magick" are hot on. Interestingly, outside of the standard "brought forth" creation myths, the beliefs at Memphis were those of "God as the Creator", or more particularly, Ptah. As the singular creator, Ptah "Uttered forth the words that brought life into being". (r m3t rn n iht nbt - 'the mouth which pronounced the name of everything' - Shabaka Inscription, Sethe translation.) Ptah, incorporated into the Ennead, spoke the name of Atum so that he could bring forth Shu and Tefnut, while on the other side, he brought forth the land from Nun and Nunet. From all texts, especially early Coffin Texts, the primacy of the existance of the God Ptah is fairly secure, it looks as if that religion was conceived first, and then the others were tacked on later as city states warred and swapped Gods around. (It strikes me that Ptah as the Craftsman sounds like a combination of Yves and Eli. Heh.) There are, of course, dozens and dozens of other gods - Sakhmet who drank the blood of the enemy on the battlefield, Sobek of the crocodiles, etc. Most of these were local city gods at one point who literally embodied their concept (re: animism) and when the nomes of that city conquored other neighboring nomes, the gods of the cities were fused. Most Egyptian Gods came in triads, not unlike the Osiris - Isis - Horus triad, or Amon - Mut - Khons (the air, the sky, the moon). As for Seth, "The Contendings of Horus and Seth" has to be the lamest Late Kingdom piece floating around, so don't read that. Just say No to bad late kingdom pieces, they all suck. Seth is the embodiment of the Egyptian's Xenophobia, he reperesented the foreign lands and the enemy, sometimes even The Enemy. He was likely the god of the Hyksos, who brought him into Egypt in the 2nd Intermediate period. An interesting quote from Morenz's EGYPTIAN RELIGION, pp 238: "Their god is said to have been Seth: '[The Hyksos king] Apophis took to him him Sutekh for lord and served not any god that was in the whole land save only Sutekh.'* Here it may be assumed that Seth stands for the Syrian God Baal, because of all the foreign deities Baal alone is designated in later Egyptian texts by Seth's animal."(* = Pap. Sallier, translation). So as for the MARCHES, it's totally incorrect in the second paragraph. Seth is not, and has never been, the God of Darkness, there are others for that. And it's very possible he was, in fact, Baal. The Hyksos came from Libya and destroyed the Egyptian civilization through conquest, destroying the great Middle Kingdom civilization which was based at Memphis, home of the Ptah-based religion during the 15th dynasty. This also introduced both the horse and chariot into Egypt, which later was used for New Kingdom conquests - you can draw whatever historical basis you like. There is passing mention of Horus, and Horus is basically his own Ph. D. thesis. He was one of the oldest Gods, formed in the Predynastic period, and certain particulars of him, like the Golden Horus Name, are still complete mysteries. In the later New Kingdom, onto the Late Kingdom, he was physically manifest as the King himself. The mention of Horus usually ends up with me waving my hands and screaming, "Just don't go there! It's bad and wrong there!" There may have been an actual predynastic Pharoah, as a colloquialism in late Egyptian writing to refer to the time of creation is to refer to the "Time of Horus", as when Horus was ruling. The earliest transcriptions has him associated with Isis, the Throne, in a very physical manner (Pyramid texts), and the myth of Osiris was later tacked on when the seats of power moved around after dynasties. During later times, the Horus was one of the names of the Pharoah, as he came forth from Amon-Re and was embodied in the physical world. In all his manifestations, I have a really hard time seeing him as just some schmoe wandering around the Marches, since you need a physical, real person. Hrm. So anyway, what it comes down to is everything you know is wrong. Just skip those two paragraphs. :) One of these days, I'll actually sit down and do some of the major (Assyrian, Persian, Egyptian, Canaanite) ancient near eastern religions for In Nomine as some sort of weird masochistic mental exercise. The one I'm most intimate with is Egyptian thought, and there are large swaths of it which simply cannot be translated at all because it's totally alien to modern thought. I've got some stuff here on "The impact of Egyptian Religion on Jewish Thought", I'm sure it'll turn up all sorts of fun things. As for Bast... as I'm flipping through my book.... she's really Bastet unless she somehow became male. She's a minor goddess of little note located at Bubastis. Her only real claim to fame is some huge festivals, and that she's the female aspect of Sakhmet, not even included in a triad. Sakhmet is scads more interesting, as the goddess of war and sickness, the wife of Ptah and the mother of Neferim, a God of the lotus blossom. She is one of the deities who transcended being just a townie, and was worshipped across the country as a goddess who needed to be placated. There's a good story of her going on this mad orgy of blood and destruction that is very entertaining to say the least. The lesson here is to not take your ancient religion from comic books, cartoons, or the World Book Encyclopedia. :) So anyway, I'm bringing up something ugly when I cough, so I'll stop babbling drugged at the terminal. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 21:29:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Night Music Treaty - ---The Bard wrote: > > I am fully intending on buying the Night Music book. But I am starting a > game set in Austin very soon and I won't be able to get my hands on the book > before then. So could someone tell me the exact terms of the peace treaty. > along with just a couple of Tethers. I am not trying to get out of buying the > book just want to go ahead and get started. Thanxs in advance. > > > Heh. Is it really a peace treaty, or an experiment? And just how do the Archangels and Demon Princes feel about Austin? Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 01:42:46 EDT From: Akumsa@aol.com Subject: IN> A new Archangel and plot seed. This, I think, was a word that should have been in the main book, but as yet to be unexplored. Questions/comments about this Archangel or my adventure are appreciated. Cyril, Archangel of Water "The world is fluid. It must be allowed to flow naturally." One of the older Archangels in the book, Cyril represents both the literal and conceptual power of Water. Both destroyer and bringer of life, Cyril is something of an enigma. Many think him insane, but all think him powerful. In the old days, before the Fall, Gabriel and Cyril used to work together. After Dominic's unjust persecution of Gabriel, Cyril seemed to lose some of his mind. Indeed, Cyril's mind is always shifting. Some say he is so empowerd by his word, he cannot resist its influence. Cyril was also one the protector of the city of Atlantis, but the Seraphim council decreed it unworthy and ordered Cyril to clense it. This has done little for Cyril's state of mind. Cyril spends almost equal time in all forms (Corp, Etherial, Celest), choosing to wonder thru the three realms as he sees fit. Some servators jokingly describe his mood swings as evaporation or condensation and such. The Archangel alternates personality every day. In fact, he is one of the LEAST summoned superiors, specifically because of his unstable mind. Dominic is as yet too busy to deal with Cyril, but soon he will be. Cyril's servators are charged with the cleasing of earth from evil. Not unlike Novalis, he prefers a peaceful method dealing with demons... At first. Should they refused to be cleansed of thier sin, they must be cleased from the earth... Water is not discriminate, and collateral damage is expected (Note that killing a human is still basically a no-no, unless they needed to be cleansed). Dissonance It is dissonant for a servator of water not to cleanse a human of a need or want they have in corporeal force weeks. Only one need be fulfilled on each human, and it dosent have to be big. Failing to do so in the deadline causes a note of dissonance. Note that the Angel has no way of knowing what need they have to deal with untill a human tells them. Also note that if 2 different people have a need, angel may choose which to help. Not helping the other causes no dissonance. Choir Attunements Seraphim Unique amoung the Major Archangels, Cyril does not allow Seraphim within his ranks. Thier lack of fluidity makes for a poor servator. Cherubim A cherub of water may stay attuned to any target indefinatly as long as they are on or near a large water source. (I.E. Not a pond or stream, But lake Erie or the Atlantic ocean.) Thier rosonace role automatically succedes on anyone who the Cherub douses with holy water. (It must be more than a mere sprinkle) Ofanim Cyril's ofanim are heaven's Fastest Swimers! They may travel a check digit of miles in one minute with a successful resonance role! If the servator chooses, he automatically may take a free role at level 1 if the role is somehow nvolved with water. (Diving instructor, olympic Swimmer, Navy SEAL) Elohim With a resonance role, the Elohim may choose to calm anyone's emotional state down into nothingness. Essentially, this allows a the angel to cast Emptyness on a human. It also cancles out the influence of a Hallabite, no matter what the emotion the Hallabite caused. Malakim The Virtues may use any nearby water source as a weapon. With a resonance roll on the water, the Malakim may use it to attack nearby foes. Note that for the purposes of all things, this is considered HOLY WATER after the Malakite uses his resonance on it. Kyroites If attempting to occupy any living creature that is in water, no resonace roll is required. (Note: Yes, even if the human is in the shower). Normal rules of occupancy still apply. Mercurians The friends of man automatically know the nearest sorce of good/fresh water or any liquid a human can imbibe. Look for them hanging around some of the coolest nightspots in town. If near a large body of water, they will also know its name and general history with a resonance roll. Servator Attunements Walk on Water Self Explanatory. Duration is 5 minutes per point of essence spent. Evaporate self Servator may turn his corporeal from into a gaseous form in one turn. This costs 1 essence Healing Water With the spending of 3 essence, the angel may imbibe a glass of water with incredible healing properties. Any human or angel that drinks of it is either: A) Cured of all diseases, or B) Healed of all damage. Any DEMONIC servatior who even SIPS the drink suffers: A) A nasty, but temperary disease, or B) suffers 1/2 of his total hit damage of his current form. Distinctions Vassal of Water Character cannot be damaged in any way by any form of water. (I.e. Cannot drown, will not die if hit with a tidal wave) Friend of the Storm He can re-direct storms away from its current path. (Even to the point of making it go in circles) Master of Water Any weather condition created or containg rain/hail/sleet/ or any other form of water can be eliminated or made stronger by this angel. The angel is only capable of effecting existing weather. Associations: Allied: Janus, Gabriel, Novalis Associated: Eli, Jordi Hostile: Jean Enemy: Vapula, Belial, Saminga Basic rites: - -Drink 2 gallons of water - -Swim for an hour in a natural setting. - -Go fishing for 4 hours. Chance of Invocation: 4 *note*: Roll 1d6, with 1 being mean/nasty, and 6 being friendly. this is the mood he shows up in. *note*: unless specified as underwater, add a +2 to summon if submerged. +1 Pure water +2 A water softener +3 A Steam room +4 An artifical or real Rainforest setting +5 A Steam Power plant +6 Over the wreckage of a ship (underwater) The Dagger of Clensing (plot seed) This adventure idea can be for angels or demons, depending on yer taste. Rumors about of finding the Dagger of Clensing, one of the few artifacts created by Eli himself with the help of Cyril. Apparently, the Daggar has the power to "clense" a celestial of any dissonance OR discord! (But not both, if you have both, yer outta luck and the daggar only effects one) Using the daggar is simple, Rinse it in a basin with distilled water, then stab yerself. The process removes all but 1 soul hit, and the daggar takes on whatever discord you had inside itself. Then bathe the daggar in Holy water, and its ready for use again! It only works once on ANY celestial. So who'd want this thing! Everybody! Renegades, Calabites, Outcasts, you name it! Even Lucifer himself may take an interest in the weapon. Players may probably be assigned to get the knife, without being told what it is! Whomever holds it holds a Tremondous amout of power over certian aspects of the symphony! The adventure should take place in some kind of city. If yer feeling epic, make it over the ruins of an Acient city little is known about. There ya go! Enjoy! John T Perkowski, Ofanite of Arcade Games. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ---- "When they heard the words: Ethics or Morals they reached for the dictionary. When they heard the chink of ready money in large quantities, they reached for the Rule book and threw it away." - -On Vogons, Mostly Harmless ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 00:52:52 -0500 From: The Bard Subject: Re: IN> Night Music Treaty > Heh. Is it really a peace treaty, or an experiment? And just how do > the Archangels and Demon Princes feel about Austin? Well I don't knowI will tel you when I get the book. > > > Graveyard Greg > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 19:19:36 +1200 From: "Al.Bri" Subject: Re: IN> HELLO ANY BODY HOME The Bard wrote: >Graveyard Greg wrote: >> ---SienarFLT@aol.com wrote: >> > And of course some of us quietly save all the useful stuff to use in our games >> > without feeling the -need- to comment on any of it. I personally will not >> > waste the time and space sending a post that says "hey I liked it" >> > and nothing else. >> But some of us need the gratification. :) >Yes how are we suppose to know if people like what we are talking about. >And compliments help make friends :-) One can always sends "thanks" by person to person e-mail instead of through the list. Andrew Martin Shared email: Al.Bri@xtra.co.nz Web Site: http://members.xoom.com/AndrewMartin Dirtside II Web Site: http://members.xoom.com/AndrewMartin/DSII Dirtside II FAQ Web Site: http://members.xoom.com/AndrewMartin/DSII/FAQ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 14:43:23 +0300 From: Yossi Gurvitz Subject: Re: IN> IN- Why not spread the Word (was RE: Roles and what to do...) At 06:36 PM 8/1/98 , you wrote: >Yossi Gurvitz wrote: >I do not agree with this. I know plenty of people IRL who are athiests >or agnostics who are decent, moral beings. *Good* people, who do not >have to have a belief in the afterlife in order to be so. Being an agnostic myself, I would like to concur. However, I use In Nomine as a sounding board for my religious fantasies. Agnosticism and atheism are functional, true (IMAO) and utterly boring; religion may be false (ducks flames) but it is rich in legends and myths. Hence it is more fun to play with. >I do accept that celestials revealing their true natures is likely to >have a great effect on mundanes though. Im my game, a mercurian doing so >managed to have a hardened criminal redeem himself for an appointment >with Destiny. My Gabrielite Malakite just manages to scare them silly, what with his wings and fiery sword :-) >Unless the GM rules that the mundane is filled 'with the Glory of God' >at the sight of such a being, who knows *what* the reaction might be? In at least one case, my character was mistaken for a demon... Yours, Yossi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 14:16:42 +0300 From: Yossi Gurvitz Subject: Re: IN> IN- Why not spread the Word (was RE: Roles and what to do...) At 12:27 AM 8/1/98 , you wrote: >If people choose to be good because they know that it'll get them >into Heaven and being bad will send them to Hell -- not just believe, >but *KNOW* this will happen -- then are they really choosing to be >good? Or are they being bribed for goodness and punished for badness? Good question. It makes the "good choice" seem so much better, yes, but it also gives the option for ultimate evil, and, at least according to literature, there have been a few people which chose evil. I assume that after a while, when the shock recedes, things will actually get back to normal: most people will live unassuming lives. "And today, the Rev. Seraph Emathiel's sermon will be about the importance of being honest." Temptation will sneak back. Hey, it worked for Adam and Eve, and they *knew* God was around. Human nature, I guess. >It's very possibly the same thing that says "Bribe a demon to >redemption, and you wind up with a dead demon." If a human doesn't choose >goodness for the right reasons, is it really goodness? In my opinion, yes. Intention counts, but acts are more important. The way to Hell is paved with good intentions for a reason. Yours, Yossi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 08:18:46 EDT From: SienarFLT@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> HELLO ANY BODY HOME In a message dated 8/2/98 5:59:45 PM EST, bard@chipshot.net writes: > > But some of us need the gratification. :) > > Yes how are we supose to know if people like what we are talking about. > And compliments help make friends :-) > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 08:40:49 EDT From: SienarFLT@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> HELLO ANY BODY HOME In a message dated 8/2/98 5:59:45 PM EST, bard@chipshot.net writes: > > But some of us need the gratification. :) > > Yes how are we supose to know if people like what we are talking about. > And compliments help make friends :-) > Sorry about that last post I sent just a moment ago, I -really- did mean to make a comment on that but accidentally sent it before doing so. I didn't mean to come off sounding nasty first of all on my initial response. I've sent some stuff to the list which has never gotten any response and I guess it doesn't bother me one way or another. If someone can use it fine, if not its just as well. This list gets a LOT of posts though, which is why I made that comment in the first place. The story had an interesting starting idea. If you want more criticism than that I'd be happy to do that off-list. After all I'm an English teacher and have tons in the way of criticism :-) Sorry for taking up so much band-width. -- Thom. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 14:42:47 +0200 (MET DST) From: Jasper Reijer Floor Subject: Re: IN> Hell on Earth On Sun, 2 Aug 1998, Adam Canning wrote: > Eeyore > >> IIRC In RL there is a town called Hell in the Grand Cayman Islands. > > Actually, Hell is a town in SW Michigan.< > > Hell is a state of mind. And mind is a country just south of Antartica. mvg, Jasper Floor "For words are wise men's counters,--they do but reckon by them; but they are the money of fools." Thomas Hobbes - The Leviathan. Part i. Chap. iv ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 08:52:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Littmann Subject: Re: IN> IN- Why not spread the Word (was RE: Roles and what to do...) > It makes the "good choice" seem so much better, "Better"? How can they be good at all if they are done in order to get a reward or avoid a punishment. If you are held up and robbed, that isn't an unwilling act of charity on your part - it isn't an act of charity at all. > yes, but > it also gives the option for ultimate evil, and, at least according to > literature, there have been a few people which chose evil. I have seen it in literature, but not in real life. Even criminals tend to have a warped view of the world that makes them the good guys. Sure, you will get Satanists saying that they are evil, but when you listen to them it tends to become pretty clear that they are using the word differently - often as "what *you* would consider evil". > I assume that > after a while, when the shock recedes, things will actually get back to > normal: most people will live unassuming lives. Why assume that? Very few people leap from the roofs of buildings for just the reason that those who do tend to go splat and die painfully. People seem to try to avoid things that will almost certainly result in suffering and harm for them. Even most criminals won't get involved in crimes if they will *certainly* get caught. > "And today, the Rev. > Seraph Emathiel's sermon will be about the importance of being honest." > Temptation will sneak back. Yes, I'm sure it will, but it will have a much harder time in the face of constant proof of divine reward and punishment. > Hey, it worked for > Adam and Eve, and they *knew* God was around. Human nature, I guess. Adam and Eve couldn't tell the difference between good and evil before they ate the apple. > >It's very possibly the same thing that says "Bribe a demon to > >redemption, and you wind up with a dead demon." If a human doesn't choose > >goodness for the right reasons, is it really goodness? > In my opinion, yes. So is the mugee charitable? Is the judge bribed to reduce the muggers sentence merciful? Is the gang that beats up the mugger, not because of what he has done but because of the colour of his skin, just? Stalin did a lot to stop Hitler - so was he a man of great goodness as well as great evil? And most importantly, can anyone help with my Shedim problem? :) Greg ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #892 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.