From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Aug 5 13:00:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA29411 for ; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:00:57 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id NAA10332 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:02:12 -0500 Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:02:12 -0500 Message-Id: <199808051802.NAA10332@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #899 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, August 5 1998 Volume 01 : Number 899 In this digest: Re: IN> Greg's Shedim problem IN> IN- Lost Words? Re: IN> Greg's Shedim problem IN> Looking for Love...Archangel, that is... Re: IN> Shedim Problem (Re: Why not spread the Word) Re: IN> Enhanced Gabrielite Attunements IN> Re: IN- Shedim Problem (Re: Why not spread the Word) Re: IN> Looking for Love...Archangel, that is... IN> Bluffing Seraphim Re: IN> IN- Lost Words? Re: IN> Lost Words? Re: IN> Bluffing Seraphim Re: IN> Lost Words? Re: IN> Lost Words? IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #897 Re: IN> Looking for Love...Archangel, that is... IN> Malakim in Black Re: IN> Lost Words? IN> Re: Angels going to GenCon IN> Demon Prince of Politics Attunements IN> Is hippocracy a sin? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 17:51:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Knop Subject: Re: IN> Greg's Shedim problem > I'd give him 24 hours to corrupt *someone*, unless I was getting > really annoyed by Shedim on a regular basis, in which case it would > turn into house rules of "corrupt your host at least once before you > leave it, if you stay less than a day". The latter house rule would help a bit with Greg's problem -- it provides one more limit on a Shedite to keep it from wantonly hopping from host to host. (Although, as Greg has noted, it's generally very easy to perform a very small act of corruption for most hosts.) - -Rob === Rob Knop === rknop@crl.com ==== http://www.wco.com/~rknop === Amiga PGP information at http://www.wco.com/~rknop/amiga_pgp Visit the Dramatic Exchange at http://www.dramex.org/ ================================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 18:19:03 PDT From: "Doug Muir" Subject: IN> IN- Lost Words? >> there are lots of subordinate Words that >>won't be so tenacious... Vacuum Tubes, for instance, and Fission Power. > >Actually both Vacuum Tubes and Fission Power would be in pretty good >shape, despite what one might think. The first includes CRTs and a lot >of high-power amplifier applications that still use tubes. Granted... but I was discussing (at that point) Words in trouble. And even if you grant them expansive definitions, I think both these guys (1) have been going downhill for a while, and (2) face pretty shaky futures. >And fission >power is still fairly widespread; not to mention the fact that fission >heating is fairly important in the Earth's heat balance and crustal >dynamics. Quibble, quibble... that's not fission *power*. >Besides, the words might actually be "Amplifiers" and "Fission", which >include a lot more things. Well, but then once again we're back to the general vs. specific issue. The bigger and more general the Word, the safer. The Angel of Birds is probably good for many millions of years to come. The Angel of Hummingbirds might be getting a little nervous about pesticides and habitat deprivation, though. And the Angel of the Crimson-Crowned Honey Dipper, which only lives in one small, isolated, and rapidly dwindling region of Brazillian rainforest has really got a lot to worry about. Or the Demon of Aids to Vision (safe), Eyeglasses (lying awake nights thinking about advances in optical surgery), and Bifocals (dwindling fast, and probably doomed). >(Note that the Calabite in Night Music >is the "Demon of Amps", and demons are more likely to have specific >Words than angels.) Really? Is that canon? >>Note that all of these are (in the celestial scheme of things) _young_ >>words. > >Which means that they may not even have been given out yet -- I would >doubt that the Seraphim Council is the sort of body that moves quickly, >at least. Hmmmm. Do you really think not? I mean... some Words have become _very_ important, very quickly. All the ones associated with computers, for instance. And we know there is an Angel of Networks. Unless you're going to stretch a bit and assume he was watching over plant roots or something, he's not more than forty years old or so... maybe twice that if you include phone switching systems. It's hard to believe that Heaven would leave words like Satellites, Birth Control, International Organizations, Interfaces, Lasers, Television, or Genetic Engineering to stay unbound for too long... especially since Hell _will_ be moving to fill those gaps. For the more ephemeral Words, they may never get around to >giving them out before they fade away again. Sure. I agree. >>The constant creation of >>new Words strongly suggests (to me, at least) that celestials must at >>least occasionally be cutting loose from old ones. > >No, it could equally imply that many of these Words are simply untaken, >as of yet. Or that the celestial population is growing enough to supply >candidates. (I don't necessarily support the latter notion, but it's >possible.) Well, I said "strongly suggests", not "proves". Either of your alternate explanations could be correct. But even if we leave a lot of Words untaken, there are still a lot that are just crying out for a celestial... >>There's nothing that says that all Words *must* be filled >for them to exist. Agreed. But new and _important_ ones do crop up. >> "Weapons", yes; "Catapults", no. > >Catapults may see a comeback, see "mass driver".... Well, I suggested some while back that the Demon of Cannons got his Word upgraded to Artillery. I'd accept it. >Which isn't to say there aren't many "transient" Words. But the more >obvious cases probably wouldn't be granted, unless there was a good >reason (or a good whim, in Lucifer's case). On the other hand, I can >see a selfless angel taking a transient Word they thought *needed* to be >championed, even knowing that it was destined to fade away after its >purpose was served. And the Council would likely be swayed by such >arguments. I agree with everything you say here, except that I'm not at all sure the _angel_ would fade with its word. As noted above, the example of Avery shows that Celestials can survive Word-loss... even if they don't like it much. Cheers, Doug M. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:37:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Greg's Shedim problem On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Robert Knop wrote: > > > How did that go on Saturday, by the way? :) > > > > > They stomped all over everything, produced some truly amazing > > atrocities, and had next to no trouble doing it. My players had a *great* > > time, but I can't imagine that their enjoyment can last without *some* > > problems to overcome. :/ > > Were you able to get any mileage whatsoever out of the disturbance > created by the body-hopping? > > Relevant question for Elizabeth or some such: Shedim are supposed to > corrupt their hosts at least once a day. Suppose a Shedite hops into a > host, and leaves it minutes later without corrupting it. Less than a day > has elapsed: does the Shedite get a note of dissonance or not? Beth clarified this a while ago. The Shedim have to corrupt A host once every 24 hours. If they spend a full day inhabiting 100 hosts, only one of those hosts has to be corrupted. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! ::: Official Martyr of X-Day! ::: Visit #subgenii on irc.sorcery.net - it's a beautiful place ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 18:38:36 PDT From: "Doug Muir" Subject: IN> Looking for Love...Archangel, that is... J Michael, normally I find myself agreeing with almost everything written by the divine Elizabeth... but in this case, I think you have made some very good points. >> #1: It's like leaving the light on for the runaway coming home. >> (Hey, look, your old room is still there.) > >I miss 'em, too. But at some point, you have to move on. Right. Firm agreement. Although... hmm... can anyone remember offhand whether there are any archangels taking on Words that were lost in the Fall? I mean... Lucifer was Light, presumably, and there's no mention of a present AA of Light. Nor one of Fear (Beleth's old Word). Hmm. >> #2: The Word's former owner FELL. > It's a War; risks must be taken. Bunker Hill fell, too, but that isn't a good >reason not to have defended it. Whatever territory we fight over, be it a >location, a soul, or an idea, might be lost. But we have to fight somewhere. Agreed, again. There may be some Words that shouldn't be taken by an Angel. But it's canon that they can take on some fairly icky ones. And Love would seem to be a natural. >> #3: Princes tend to get snitty at angels who hold their Words, and >> go out of their way to use them for playthings. > >Then we find someone tough and get ready to give him/her a lot of help. Unlike >our foes, we're in this together. Strong agreement. Pushing an angel into play against a Prince would be a very aggressive move in the War, to be sure. But I can't believe that Heaven would just give up large chunks of turf out of fear of reprisal. If that's really the case, the War is already lost. Although... what if direct Word-conflict is the metaphysical equivalent of trench warfare? Where the defense (i.e. the incumbent holder of the Word) has a tremendous, almost insuperable advantage? Maybe the celestial with more experience with the Word can manipulate it more effectively, and through it, his opponent. Hmm. That could explain a lot. In this case, you wouldn't push an angel into a Word held by a Prince unless the angel was already _more_ powerful than the Prince. Mind you... if you accept this position, there are certain consequences. For one thing, it means there will be a positive scramble for new Words. Lucifer and the Seraph Council won't sit around for too long debating; they'll want to get some celestial into that Word ASAP, to gain the advantage of incumbency. That would explain the occasional seeming goof, like making poor Druiel in _Night Music_ the Angel of Teenage Death. Not anybody's fault, just the exigencies of war. >It seems to be a commonly held belief that >Andre's Word in particular has grown in strength in recent times. I posit that >this is because we have ceded the field. Yeah! >> #4: Sometimes a Word's scope has been absorbed enough by other Words >> that it's not necessary. (Love is gone, but Flowers incorporates >> some aspects and promotes those, while Creation promotes others.) > >I don't want to sound too much like a Malakite given the thrust of the >discussion, but I think it's time to try direct confrontation in certain >quarters. Angels ALL embody love in some way or another; it's who we are. But >this is too important a Word to break it up. Yeah. Otherwise,we'd just have three Archangels -- Nouns. Verbs and Adjectives. >> #5: Sometimes the Right Angel For The Job just hasn't shown up yet. > >Beware of allowing the perfect to become the enemy of the good. Heh. I must use that line on my players. > I believe that certain of the present Archangels weren't the RAFTJ, No question about that... >but they're getting better with practice. We hope. In any event, it's clear from canon.that there isn't always a perfect fit between angel and job. >In short, it's time for a change of tactics. Right! Say it, brother! Doug M. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:39:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Shedim Problem (Re: Why not spread the Word) On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Worse -- get the Shedite into a Soldier of God who manages to come under > suspicion by the local triad, and the Cherub attunes . . . to the Shedite! > Now, a Cherub of Judgment doesn't have to worry about damage to his > attuned if that attuned is being investigated... > > Stick him with a Djinn, or a Song of Attraction, for a lesser threat. WAIT! These two examples strike a note... The book says that Djinn hate Shedim because they CAN'T keep track of them like this! Now you say they can. Which is right? - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! ::: Official Martyr of X-Day! ::: Visit #subgenii on irc.sorcery.net - it's a beautiful place ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:48:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Enhanced Gabrielite Attunements Okay, borrowing from both Hitherby and the pre-release, I thought I'd share what *I* am now using as Gabriel's expanded attunements. PIck 'em apart if you wish... SERAPHIM They also know the temperature of anything in their line of vision, even in the dark. This effectively gives them infravision. CHERUBIM Betrayers' skin blisters and itches at the touch of these Cherubim. IF they touch such a person and make a Will roll, the betrayer takes the check digit in damage each turn of contact; this damaging contact can be held for turns equal to the Cherub's Corporeal Forces. If the Will roll is failed, the Cherub takes damage equal to the check digit, but may try again. This can only be done (successfully) once per person. ELOHIM They also have the ability to extract the emotional pain from one person, healing their pain (and Mind hits equal to the angel's Celestial Forces*). They may, with a touch, return this pain to the person who caused it, doin the same amount of mental damage to the aggressor. While these Mind hits are healing, the subject suffers a penalty to ALL rolls equal to the unhealed damage. * Yes, Celestial Forces; it's the angel's spirit healing them, not his mental prowess. KYRIOTATES As long as they have 3 free Forces, these angels can manifest as fire! Their senses and speech work normally, but they cannot actually burn anyone or anything. They do feel as hot as normal fire, however, and those immersed in their flame will probably believe they are burning. MERCURIANS Her Mercurians are experts at igniting the spark within a human. They all have +1 Charisma (in any vessel) and add +1 to any skill roll to inspire or affect emotion in a human (e.g., Sex Appeal, Artistry, Emote). Well? - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! ::: Official Martyr of X-Day! ::: Visit #subgenii on irc.sorcery.net - it's a beautiful place ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 19:09:22 PDT From: "Doug Muir" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Shedim Problem (Re: Why not spread the Word) >> Stick him with a Djinn, or a Song of Attraction, for a lesser threat. > >WAIT! These two examples strike a note... > >The book says that Djinn hate Shedim because they CAN'T keep track of them >like this! Now you say they can. Which is right? IN, p. 143: "The Shedim and the Djinn are notorious for their vicious distrust of one another. The Fleshless move freely and frequently from vessel to vessel, and the resonance of the Djinn can't track them _as reliably_ (emphasis added). The Shedim resent the fact that the Djinn would even *try* to keep track of them -- and confound the Djinns' feeling of impotence by making them the butt of nasty tricks." So the Djinn can track the Shedim... just not as well. I think the way this works is, the Djinn has to know that he's attuning to the Shedim, and not to its host... and also, that Shedite possession screws up Djinn attunement. I bet one of the Shedim's favorite "nasty tricks" is to possess someone that a Djinn is attuned to, or going to be attuned to. If the Djinn couldn't track the Shedim _at all_, there'd be no reason for these two Bands to hate each other so much. So, again: sic a Djinn on them, or several. Hm, did I hear someone saying that a Djinn can't easily harm the object of his attunement? True enough. But he is *completely* free to *allow* harm to it... Djinn: I've come for Joe. Player: So you found me... well, big deal! You can't hurt me, it's against the rules! Djinn: Oh, I'm not going to hurt you. [A nearby wall collapses into dust. Two unpleasant looking men, wearing ragged clothes and nasty smiles, step into the room]. Djinn: Frankie and Bob, here, *they're* going to hurt you. I'm just going to watch. Note also that nothing prevents the Djinn from attacking PCs who get between him and his prey. If you have two or more Djinn, their restriction almost ceases to matter; they just lock on to different PCs. I do yours, you do mine... Oh, and another trick you can use: get them to buy something from a Lilim, and pay with a geas. No amount of body-hopping can outrun a geas. Most players are pretty cautious about being geased, but if you work at it you can probably manage. Make the Lilim really sympathetic -- use "puppy eyes" if you must -- and make it a _really_ good deal. You don't even have to lie... you can make the Lilim actually _be_ sympathetic. But then, the next time she encounters the PCs, she can casually mention that she swapped the geast to that nice Prince Saminga... If the PCs won't bite on the geas, have the Lilim beg and say she'll be punished for not meeting her quota. If they still won't, have her wander away looking crushed... then, a few days later, have a more powerful Lilim approach the party and say "So you're the bastards who got my little sister sent down to ten years scrubbing floors in Trattoria Haagenti.". For extra fun,you could make this Lilim an NPC that the players have to deal with... Cheers, Doug M. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 19:47:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: Re: IN> Looking for Love...Archangel, that is... - ---Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > #5: Sometimes the Right Angel For The Job just hasn't shown up yet. Which is reason enough to validate the creation of said Archangel. :) Hee hee hee. Thanks Elizabeth! Have fun at WorldCon! Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 23:33:53 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Bluffing Seraphim >>>What about a Seraph (a Windy, if necessary) who says, "STOP! Don't make me shoot!" It's misdirection, but it's not chopping logic of the "If P then Q" style.*<<< That I'd probably let him get away with...especially if he's a Seraph of the Wind. It's edging towards the grey area of truth, and really tight-a**ed Seraphim might even look askance at it, but since the Seraph is only making an implication, rather than stating what he _will_ do, he's giving himself that much more wiggle-room. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Aug 98 23:45 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> IN- Lost Words? >>(Note that the Calabite in Night Music >>is the "Demon of Amps", and demons are more likely to have specific >>Words than angels.) > >Really? Is that canon? According to the LE sitting next to me, it's implicit canon -- by the examples so far. I think you can assume that angels are less likely to have extremely specific and/or trivial Words; there are bigger things for them to look after than Hot Sauce. Although Tomas ("Catchy Tunes") is probably a bit marginal. >>Which means that they may not even have been given out yet -- I would >>doubt that the Seraphim Council is the sort of body that moves quickly, >>at least. > >Hmmmm. > >Do you really think not? I mean... some Words have become _very_ >important, very quickly. All the ones associated with computers, for >instance. And we know there is an Angel of Networks. Unless you're >going to stretch a bit and assume he was watching over plant roots or >something, he's not more than forty years old or so... maybe twice that >if you include phone switching systems. > >It's hard to believe that Heaven would leave words like Satellites, >Birth Control, International Organizations, Interfaces, Lasers, >Television, or Genetic Engineering to stay unbound for too long... >especially since Hell _will_ be moving to fill those gaps. Some of them, certainly, but the process by which angels get Words tend to imply the process takes at least years, if not decades. And there's the question of whether an angel with Word-potential might be better used for something bigger. Not all Words *need* someone to look after them! > But even if we leave a lot of >Words untaken, there are still a lot that are just crying out for a >celestial... I don't see this as a problem, actually. >>>There's nothing that says that all Words *must* be filled >>for them to exist. > >Agreed. But new and _important_ ones do crop up. Important to whom? What's important to humans, *right now*, may not be important in the celestial scheme of things. >>> "Weapons", yes; "Catapults", no. >> >>Catapults may see a comeback, see "mass driver".... > >Well, I suggested some while back that the Demon of Cannons got his Word >upgraded to Artillery. I'd accept it. I'd tend to suspect the celestial Word is more literally translated as "Machines That Throw Large Masses" >I agree with everything you say here, except that I'm not at all sure >the _angel_ would fade with its word. As noted above, the example of >Avery shows that Celestials can survive Word-loss... even if they don't >like it much. I think their power fades, even if they don't actually die. Some may choose to, though. I doubt this happens much to demons, but then, Word-bound demons who've lost power probably don't survive long anyway.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 01:19:48 EDT From: CaelinR@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Lost Words? It occurs to me that there is, in addition to the afforementioned reasons for not filling words, there is a compelling reason for the Seraphic council (and Lucifer) to avoid assigning some of the more major words: giving them out makes the recipient celestial responsible for the welfare of a pretty hefty chunk of reality, and there are very few celestials with the intelligence, competance, and raw forces to effectively safeguard and promote a word of Superior scope. Granted, Superior status and a word like "Love" or "Humor" will drastically boost the power of any celestial receiving it-- but perhaps much of the Superior's power comes from sources other than their words? I imagine that even if Michael weren't the Archangel-o'-War, he could still thouroughly kick the bottoms of 98% of all demons, worded or no. Think of it this way: you can either have Love split up between David (solidarity, union), Novalis (peace, friendship), and possibly Eli, or you can hand the management of running one of the largest Words in reality to some snot-nosed 14-force punk cherub who's still wet behind the ears, and is going to get the tar beaten out of him personally by Andre the minuite the prince of Lust finds out his old word's been taken. There may simply not be enough celestials qualified for the really big jobs. Half the ones who would be qualified are already stuck with lesser words they earned some point on the way up. Pondering #1: Is the relationship between angels and their words reciprocal? If the Angel of the Stock Market gets the tar (and several forces) beaten out of him, does the market crash? We know that celestials become weaker as their words wane-- is it possible that the door can swing in both directions? This supports the above hypothesis about the quality of celestials needed for high- level words. Pondering #2: What is so special about Lucifer that allows him to grant words? We know (from his defeat at Michael's hands during the revolt) that he is at least roughly within the power-range of other major Superiors (perhaps greater, but certainly not their better by orders of magnitude). Would it be possible for another superior to bestow a word? Perhaps two collaborating? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 17:25:56 From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> Bluffing Seraphim At 11:33 PM 4/8/98 -0400, you wrote: >>>>What about a Seraph (a Windy, if necessary) who says, "STOP! Don't make >me shoot!" It's misdirection, but it's not chopping logic of the >"If P then Q" style.*<<< > > >That I'd probably let him get away with...especially if he's a Seraph of >the Wind. It's edging towards the grey area of truth, and really >tight-a**ed Seraphim might even look askance at it, but since the Seraph is >only making an implication, rather than stating what he _will_ do, he's >giving himself that much more wiggle-room. > >-David "Stop or I'll shoot!" could be even closer to 100% true. Personally I'd be less likely to try to bluff a Seraphim than most of the other Choirs. Regards, Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au May the Goddess shelter you in the palm of her hand until we meet again. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 17:45:56 From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> Lost Words? **Interesting comments snipped for Brevity** > > Pondering #1: Is the relationship between angels and their words reciprocal? >If the Angel of the Stock Market gets the tar (and several forces) beaten out >of him, does the market crash? We know that celestials become weaker as their >words wane-- is it possible that the door can swing in both directions? This >supports the above hypothesis about the quality of celestials needed for high- >level words. My feeling is yes, if you completely soul kill a Word Bound then the Concept he was looking after is in for a rough time. OTOH if he was big and well established he likely had a range of servitors who all had sub-Words of his. All these would continue to support their own concepts although with less coordination and without the support of their boss. > Pondering #2: What is so special about Lucifer that allows him to grant >words? We know (from his defeat at Michael's hands during the revolt) that he >is at least roughly within the power-range of other major Superiors (perhaps >greater, but certainly not their better by orders of magnitude). Would it be >possible for another superior to bestow a word? Perhaps two collaborating? IMHO you can't just pin a Word to anyone, not that either Lucifer or the Seraphic Council would. The Celestial has to really be the right person. They have to have the skills, contacts, apptitudes and desire to forward their Word before they get anywhere near the final approval stage. The only way you are going to get enough support in the Seraphic Council is if you are not just the best current candidate, but a candidate that has wide, even if grudging, acceptance among the AA's and are more than capable of doing the job. OTOH Lucifer is not 100% rational, as we understand it, and he has other motives besides running a well ordered universe, so sometimes his Word bestowal looks a little screwy. To answer your real question, I have no idea how it is that Lucifer can do this trick, just thought I'd toss in my 2c worth. Thanking you for your indulgence. Regards, Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au May the Goddess shelter you in the palm of her hand until we meet again. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 04:11:58 -0400 From: Pete Overton Subject: Re: IN> Lost Words? >My feeling is yes, if you completely soul kill a Word Bound then the >Concept he was looking after is in for a rough time. OTOH if he was big >and well established he likely had a range of servitors who all had >sub-Words of his. All these would continue to support their own concepts >although with less coordination and without the support of their boss. Boy, I guess someone just really kicked the ass of the Angel of the Canadian Dollar then... :) Pete, never helpful ;) ===================================================== Pete Overton | E-Mail: pover@golden.net | ICQ:2192976 "If the world will end in fire or in ice, let it. I don't care, as long as I Dream... I don't care..." -- ^Daisy^, Undernet Exit Line ===================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 07:48:40 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> in_nomine-digest V1 #897 Message text written by INTERNET:in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >In the longest run, almost all species. I could come up with *lots* more, but you get the point. < Now name angels in cannon with words likely to go obsolete. The list I gave was suggestions for the sort of words the seraphim council might hand out in this area. Note bothe Jean and Orc have words that are seriously unlikely to go obsolete. Adam ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 07:48:37 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: Re: IN> Looking for Love...Archangel, that is... From: Elizabeth McCoy >There are several reasons.< #6: The Seraphim council is possibl;y limited in the words it can give out. Since if there are Archangels in the higher Heavens, The Metratron may have the word The Word or Almighty, Yofiel the Torah, Haniel Vision and Shekhinah Love. But the Characters aren't going to meet them unless something brings them down from the upper heavens to the altitudes the characters can reach. The seraphim council is not going to give out words that allready have angels, even if that angel is in irriversable trauma or been stript down to a revenant, since to do so would be to give up on one of the host. Adam IIRC the Mishne Torah has both Raphael and Satan as Malakim. But then it is sort of implied in kabbalistic texts that humans can summon malakim... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 07:48:43 -0400 From: Adam Canning Subject: IN> Malakim in Black This list is getting slightly bogged down in being serious and infected with MIMe attachments, so for you edification, A lesser Malakim in Black Salim, other wise Known as Alexander Carter Malakite of Creation serving Destiny Forces: 9 Corporeal: 3 [Strength 5 Agility 7] Etheral: 3 [Intelligence 7 Precision 5] Celestial: 3 [Will 6 Perception 6] Role FBI Special Agent Level 4 Status 3 SongsNone Skills: Dodge/1, Ranged Weapon [Pistol]/1, English/3 Drive/1, Fast Talk/1, Knowledge [American Law]/1 Detect Lie/1, Area Knowledge [LA]/1, Savoir Faire/1 Attunements: Malakim of Creation, Divne Destiny Servant: Inez Hernadez/1 Oaths: Never surrender to Hell, Suffer not evil to live, Always remain polite, Always allow an enemy the chance to surrender. Salim's first meeeting with Eli on becoming full angel was also his last. Eli congratulated him, told him he would soon be ready to work on earth and by the way your working for Yves now. After Yves decided that he was redy for work on earth he choose to become [with a little help from an Ofanite of Lightning] a member of one of America's Law enforcement agencies. His Logic for this choice was as followws: 1 Demons like breaking laws, 2 Most of the time law breaking is a form of evil, 3 This means the FBI will find Evil for me to fight, 4 His inherent abilities should make up for his restricted of knowledge of humans. As far as he can tell he manages to fit in reasonably well though the other agents do joke about giving him a basement office. Salim and his partner Inez have just returned to Los Angeles, from New York where they have been undergoing thecounter intelligence course at the Defense Intelligence College in Washington. Salim managed an all time low on the role playing exercises [ before realising that the opponents in the exercise were not actually infiltrating the country.] and scrapped a pass on the theoretical aspects.. Salim's vessel is 6 foot tall, blond, blue eyed and as perfectly average in appearance as he could manage. [This with his taste in clothing makes him look like the archetypal MiB] Since it was obvious to him from Television that FBI agents accomodation should appear to be affected by moving rooms, he has attempted to duplicate this in his flat by having both bedrooms decorated exactly identically. He is not quite sure how to achieve a moving kitchen effect yet. Salim on Inez " She is perfectly capable of doing her job and I have jet to find any failure in her behaviour despite the way other agents appear to think her less capabl;e than them. Why are you giggling?" FBI Special Agent Inez Juanita Hernadez Unilluminated Human Forces: 5 [40 Charactrer points] Corporeal: 2 [Strength 4 Agility 4] Etheral: 1 [Intelligence 3 Precision 2] Celestial: 2 [Will 4 Perception 4] Status 3, Toughness 1 SongsNone Skills: Drive/1, Detect Lies/1, Dodge/3, Fighting/2, Swimming/1 Ranged Weapon [Pistol]/4, English/3, Spanish/3, Climbing/1 Fast Talk/2, Knowledge [American Law]/3 Move Silently/2 Area Knowledge [LA]/2, Computer Operations/3, Chenistry/1 Attunements: None While growing up on the streets of LA, Inez came to one conclusion. It is better to be behind the badge. By a sheer feat of determinationb and a little judicious alteration of computer files, she managed to become an FBI agent. Alexander Carter is the first partner she has been asigned to work with since finishing training and so she has not totally realised how different he is from the average agent. She would like to learn to bluff people with their past actions the way he does. Inez is 5 foot 7 inches, slim, red haired, green eyed and, obviously Spanish / American. She has yet to see anything wrong with an FBI agent living at home with her mother. Inez on Salim: " He's strange, but he get things done. How he knows what to accuse people of under interogation, I just can't understand, and that look of his, as if he knows what you've done wrong..[shiver], but he is one of the few agents in the LA branch who's never put me down for my sex or race, working with him its as if he doesn't realise that I'm different from the Ivy league types who fill the office." Adam Canning Dahak@Compuserve.Com Salim " Let me see if I can get this straight, they are suggesting that I should have an office in a basement because Special Agent Mulder has one in Washington." Inez "Thats because he's strange." Salim " He's one of the counties leading experts on the psychology of mass murders, so of course he's strange, after all knowing that much about humans would confuse anybody. But he seemed perfectly pleasent when I met him." Inez " He believes in Flying Saucers too." Salim" Yes, but they are only our problem if they fail to fill in valid flight plans" Inez"What?" Salim" Well we don't have to arrest them until they break federal flight regulations do we?" Inez "Look just don't talk about flying saucers to the others or they put you in the office next to his." Salim "That's quite a nice office, but I prefer the view from mine, and it's a lot more convenient for work." Inez " Look,I think I'm going to have to explain this some other time." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 12:14:07 -0500 From: Uncle Wolf Subject: Re: IN> Lost Words? I know this is going to sound, a little strange for this topic, but give me a second. Where does Yves get the books he has in his Library? Answer: Some of them are the remains of Angels who have lost their words. Rather than put them out to pasture in a Celestial nursing/retirement home, as someone has suggested, they take the form of books, complete with all the knowledge that the "retiring" angel had accumulated during their lifetimes. Also, when some angels feel that their memories are getting too heavy and many to carry with them, they may choose to have their memories edited at Yves' Library, where their dumped knowledge become books on the shelves. No surprise, then, if it sometimes seems like the books are alive -- opening to the right passage as soon as you take them off the shelf, refusing to open for those who have abused books in the past, jumping off the shelf to bury a would-be thief beneath an avalanche of tomes, etc... All of which makes the Library and Yves both seriously spooky, even to the angels of the Lower Heavens. my 2-cent ante for the kitty, tom timberlake, cadre Cherub of Heaven ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 10:20:18 PDT From: "Chris Crowe" Subject: IN> Re: Angels going to GenCon Krowe will be there, submitting his artwork to whoever will look at it and generally enjoying himself to the fullest. I may even do the rpg thing while i'm there, then there's the Magic game that i haven't played in ages. If we could gather enough people maybe there'll be room for some In Nomine. Let me know if you guys are wanting to put something together. I'll be leaving tomorrow morning, so if i see you there, i see you. Krowe Malakim of Destiny, Angel of Redemption Lord of XAOZ "What good fortune for those in power, that people do not think." -- Adolf Hitler, 1889-1945 "Love is a dirty trick played upon us to achieve the continuation of the species." -- novelist W.Somerset Maugham, 1874-1965 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:35:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: IN> Demon Prince of Politics Attunements I use Boss Smiley, DP of Politics, in my game...got him from the INC. He's one of the better DP writeups on there, IMO (anyone who wants to see ALL the non-canon Superiors I use can visit http://www.cris.com/~pkitty/nomine and click on my Personal Politics List). Hell, I didn't even change his name.... But he has no Servitor Attunements...to compound things, all his Band Attunements are resonance-based. I've got a player who wants to serve him, and I know that player will want a chance to expand later. I've wracked my brain trying to think of good SAs for Politics, but none come to mind. So I turn to you, my compadres on the list. What are some good SA ideas for Politics? I don't even ask you to come up with the game mechanics (unless you wish to) - I'll settle for just some IDEAS. Got any? (For those who don't wanna check out the INC, these abilities are already covered: Telling someone what they want to hear, strengthening another demon's resonance against certain people, breaking up a crowd, influencing the feelings of a crowd, bonus on resonances against politicians, draining essence with a smile and handshake, knowing the demographic/social group any person falls into, knowing a person's feelings on certain issues, and being able to pull statistics out of the air for any topic.) - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! ::: Official Martyr of X-Day! ::: Thinking about a Tampa Bay Devival in the future - email me! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 10:41:51 PDT From: "Chris Crowe" Subject: IN> Is hippocracy a sin? Krowe's been quiet for a while, behaving myself like i promised i would do after caused trouble before. But Krowe can stay quiet for only so long while under a constant deluge of dishonourable crap like what he has recently had to spend time downloading from his In Box. [clipping three posts worth of whining and complaining about people sending stuff to the list that he apparently didn't want to read] >>>- -David, longing for the days when only grown-ups could afford Internet access<<< Am i the only one who found what he said offensive? Insults toward people for wanting to know what we think about their posts is most definately not something i want to spend my time downloading. Feedback is what this list is for. And i especially don't like hearing a self proclaimed "grown-up" downing on someone who may or may not be a child for work that they submitted for our critique. It's just not right. It's worse than what i did, because what happened between me and Perry was posted to the list accidentally. David posted a vindictive message fully aware of where it was going. Since i doubt Beth will repremand him for his actions, i think someone needs to say something. I don't mind be the one to do it either. And if she (or anybody else for that matter) finds this post more offensive than Mr Edelstein's, than won't feel bad about it. I can't feel bad about saying what's right. If what's right makes people angry then that should tell you something about their affilliation with the Host. ;) Krowe Malakim of Destiny, Angel of Redemption Lord of XAOZ "What good fortune for those in power, that people do not think." -- Adolf Hitler, 1889-1945 "Love is a dirty trick played upon us to achieve the continuation of the species." -- novelist W.Somerset Maugham, 1874-1965 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #899 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.