From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Aug 12 06:50:57 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA02474 for ; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 06:50:57 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id HAA26554 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 12 Aug 1998 07:02:43 -0500 Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 07:02:43 -0500 Message-Id: <199808121202.HAA26554@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #908 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, August 12 1998 Volume 01 : Number 908 In this digest: Re: IN> Kerzog, Demon Prince of Weaponry Re: IN> Shedim Problem (Re: Why not spread the Word) IN> Kerzog, Demon Prince of Weaponry Re: IN> Shedim Problem (Re: Why not spread the Word) Re: IN> Fall of the Malakim Nitpicks. [Here there be Spoilers!] IN> Angelic Hearts Re: IN> Kerzog, Demon Prince of Weaponry IN> In Nomine Song Book now available for playtest Re: IN> Why not take Dissonance to escape Geas? IN> Humanocentrism (was Kerzog) IN> Dissonance question Re: IN> Angelic Hearts Re: IN> Dissonance question IN> Psychedelic furs Re: IN> Adventure Seed: "Blind Faith" -BIG POST!!- Re: IN> Angelic Hearts Re: IN> Shedim Problem (Re: Why not spread the Word) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 21:11:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Ben-Prime Subject: Re: IN> Kerzog, Demon Prince of Weaponry > I also wrote Kerzog as STILL being Subserviant to Baal, but Weapons arent > always used in a war. Gangs, Thugs, Cops, even some security guards use > weapons all the time. Hence his somewhat minor Independance from Baal. I dunno, this argument seems rather specious to me. For the following reasons: 1) Baal's word is not War; it is, specifically, 'the War', i.e., Hell's side of the Heaven-Hell conflict. Even though Michael is portrayed as his nemesis, Laurence is his counterpart. So Baal's word prolly spreads further into the misuses of 'weaponry' than you are giving credit for. 2) Likewise, sex and explosions sell air-time on networks, but Lust and Fire are still separate words from 'The Media'. Words can overlap and still be separate. 3) Conversely to the above, and yet not contradicting it, we have numerous canonical examples of servitors who cross Superior Lines. Druiel springs to mind most readily. This is the reason that Words are awarded by the Seraphic Council or Lucifer, rather than by superiors themselves. In short, I gotta de-lurk to agree with David, here. Ben - ----- emrys@netrox.net ---------------- http://www.netrox.net/~emrys/ ------ "Rabbi, I have lost Faith." "And how did this happen?" "I studied Logic, and found you can prove anything if you're clever enough." "Indeed? Can you prove you have no nose?" "Certainly. To begin with---" "Then, my friend, what hurts?" -- Old Yiddish Parable - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 20:35:25 -0400 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: Re: IN> Shedim Problem (Re: Why not spread the Word) At 11:39 AM -0400 8/11/98, Walter Milliken wrote: >The other dirty trick is to render the host unconscious and drag it into >a Tether (Cel. Motion is good for this). The Shedite will start frying >when it comes out of the host (as it will be forced to within 30 >minutes). Isn't a Shedite only forced out of a Dead host, not an unconscious one? A nasty Shedite trick in return... Say there's a shedite, getting beat on by Angels in his Host, and it looks like they're going to kill the host. He doesn't want to abandon the host, as potential new hosts are scarce, and new Forces are hard to coem by, but he does want them to stops beating on him. He's got at least 8 Forces, and at least 2 Essence. Manifest Celestial Form, without leaving the Host. Immediately after you do so, head straight down; Nobody can move and attack while Celestial in the same round on Earth, and heading into the ground should protect you from Cel Lights fired by those still in Vessels. It also gets you out of Line-of-sight, making it easier for you to get out of "visual" range. It has the disadvantage that you can't see where you're going, but hey, that's the price you pay. Meanwhile, have your host sink to its knees, and start crying "What have I done? What have I done?" Attempt to actually show weeping remorse for the wicked things you've made your host do. Get all sobby and stuff. Hope the Angels take you at face value and don't try to Resonance you. Next round, Descend into Hell with your Celestial Form. and Vanish your Celestial Form once you're sure your host is out of danger. If it looks like the angels aren't buying your charade, abandon the Host, and try to arrange passage on a Tether before you get called on the carpet. If the angels are foolish enough to attempt to follow you to Hell, they deserve what's coming to them. If you're lucky, and the angels are a bit gullible, and your acting skill is sufficient, they may leave you alone, or turn you over to mundane authorities, or something similar. Either way, it's a small victory for the Shedite. This will be much more difficult to pull off if your host has taken far more damage than any normal human could withstand. And if you're /really/ lucky...they just might willingly heal your host, in an attempt to cover up their indiscretions. Won't that be keen. \|=) ===== ><{{"> =================================================== <"}}>< ====== Nana-Yaw "The Fish" Ofori, Freelance Soldier of Heck, presenty serving Trudy, Impudite Captain of Gluttony, the Demon of Popcorn nofori@pop3.utoledo.edu | Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~maltesh maltesh@usa.net | In Nomine: http://members.tripod.com/~maltesh/T317 ===== ><{{"> ============ "Life's a Fish, then you Fry." ======= <"}}>< ====== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 22:08:09 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Kerzog, Demon Prince of Weaponry >>>Did you read the write up? He was working with VAPULA, and together they created Gunpowder, ect. Sure its sounds kinda against canon, but if Nybas can invent the TV, why cant Kerzog invent gunpower and nukes?<<< Yes, I did read the writeup. Yes, Nybbas invented TV, it's one of the _very_ few examples of a celestial having such a major impact with a single invention. In general, _humans_ invented most things (with perhaps some occasional prodding by angels and demons here and there). To say that a demon invented gun powder, nearly every type of gun, and nuclear weapons is to make humans largely irrelevant in the evolution of human warfare. It's way too much celestial interference. Your campaign, of course, is your campaign, but nothing like that would ever be approved in canon, nor would I want to play in a game where celestials do most of the important things and humans just use what they get handed. >>>and did you ever SEE a John Woo film? No one EVER runs out of bullets.<<< Yeah, I said I thought the attunement was cute. :) >>>You cant really give that kind of Attunment to angels.<<< Oh, sure you could. Angels of War or the Sword, in particular, would love it. >>>I also wrote Kerzog as STILL being Subserviant to Baal, but Weapons arent always used in a war. Gangs, Thugs, Cops, even some security guards use weapons all the time. Hence his somewhat minor Independance from Baal.<<< Well, first, if he's subservient, he's not a Prince. Secondly, that's the point about Superior Words -- they have broad applications. Baal's Word doesn't merely encompass declared military exchanges, it encompasses anywhere where humans are fighting each other, especially over stupid reasons. Gangs, thugs, cops, even some security guards are furthering the Word of The War. Anywhere a weapon gets used, there's potential for Baal's Word. Kerzog isn't covering anything that Baal doesn't cover. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 22:34:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Shedim Problem (Re: Why not spread the Word) On Tue, 11 Aug 1998, Nana Yaw Ofori wrote: > Say there's a shedite, getting beat on by Angels in his Host, and it looks > like they're going to kill the host. He doesn't want to abandon the host, > as potential new hosts are scarce, and new Forces are hard to coem by, but > he does want them to stops beating on him. He's got at least 8 Forces, and > at least 2 Essence. > > Manifest Celestial Form, without leaving the Host. I think you're confusing Kyriotates with Shedim. Actually...I KNOW you are. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! ::: Official Martyr of X-Day! ::: Thinking about a Tampa Bay Devival in the future - email me! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 23:04:11 -0500 From: Eeyore Subject: Re: IN> Fall of the Malakim Nitpicks. [Here there be Spoilers!] Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Pickling them is funny -- it takes a while, but hey... > > It should also be noted that the joke becomes upon *Scamper* after > a while -- and his life is now miserable, which fits his Band > Attunement. [I also would allow a miserable Kobalite to laugh > at itself to fix the dissonance for a day. As K.K. did in Maya's Fiat > Justitia game, indeed.] Humorous is in the eye of the beholder. I guess once you factor in the picklees Scamper can't get to shut up, he's the butt of a joke. But it still ought to have a shelf life. > >p125, Dominic insists that the investigating angels be made outcasts. > > It's all Yves' manipulations. > > I think that's only if they start insisting that the "Fallen Malakite" > was *not* killed, but that instead he's alive. Which means there may > be a live Fallen Malakite running around loose, to Dom... (Who is > probably a little unhinged right now.) So he'll take dissonance when things get straightened out. This is the only ending listed for an angelic group, so it still feels like they're being railroaded. What happens if the PCs come back and say, "Yup. He Fell. We killed him, though, so at least it's taken care of." That's probably even what they'll believe, since there isn't a good way for them to tell that the fakes aren't Maximilian. Unless, of course, Dominic resonates on them when they tell the story, in which case the whole truth will come out. Come to think of it, he might do this if they come back and say that Max wasn't there. What then? Seraph Archangels are a real pain if you're trying to run a mystery. J. Michael Neal ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 22:19:49 -0500 From: Eeyore Subject: IN> Angelic Hearts Our beloved line editor writes: "Others note that most Hearts can't be shattered by others... Yes, this took an artifact specially made by the Prince of Factions, who knows quite a lot about fractures... " I have two very serious problems with this response. The first is that the statement in the APG contains no wiggle room. I will quote again, slightly more fully. "Only the angel's own actions can cause the final destruction of his Heart. Until an Outcast falls, his Heart is sacred and inviolable, even to his Superior." There is no ambiguity in this statement. It does not admit the possibility of, "...but Malphas knows a lot about fractures, so he can create an artifact that can do it." There is a major difference between this change in the rules and the one that says that Malakim can't Fall, and it isn't that we do not yet know if, in canon, Malakim actually CAN Fall. That change was made the central focus of a wrenching story/adventure; it was treated with the respect that an absolute statement of canon should be. The decision that, well, angelic Hearts CAN be broken by someone else, after all, was a a bit part. If absolute rules statements like that in the APG are going to be thrown away for a minor plot point, then what's the point of having "canon" at all? Shouldn't (couldn't) the writer come up with something that doesn't trample on what has gone before? If not, can I get my $18.00 back for the APG? It doesn't seem very important now. But that's only my secondary complaint. The more important one is that the idea that destruction of a Heart can only be caused by its Angel is right, and it would be even if the APG hadn't concretely said so. An angel's Heart is the symbolic representation of his service and loyalty to God. When all other questions fail, the continued existence of an angel's Heart is the proof that he has not forsaken God and (just as importantly) vice versa. This is an intensely personal relationship, and it needs an absolute symbol. Dominic and his servitors debate the question of whether an angel is treading the line and is likely to Fall (among other questions), the whether or not an angel has Fallen needs the symbol of the Heart. In a broader sense, one of my problems with the way the IN game system works, and something I would change were I to run it, is the nature of Dissonance and Falling. Whether an angel becomes Outcast or Falls is determined by dissonance. The dissonance is acquired by violating one's nature, absent any question of whether or not the actions that caused it are right or wrong. I would probably rule that this is true of becoming Outcast, but it is a question that I don't think can be ignored when it comes to Falling. Mira Klein is the perfect example of this. It is her nature to fulfill the geas, yet it is very obvious that the Right Thing To Do would be to resist the geas and not shatter Maximilian's Heart. (This also begs the question of how the inherent nature of Bright Lilim is different from the Dark variety.) If the situation were properly role-played (assuming Mira were a PC) I would never condemn her to Fall, no matter how much dissonance she picked up in resisting the geas. Falling is a profoundly moral statement/action that the game system treats in an entirely practical manner. For the game world to have any point, it must be treated in a moral fashion. And the symbolic representation of Falling is the shattering of an Angel's Heart; that representation must contain moral import, not merely material actions by a different actor. If not, (to paraphrase someone I can't remember) God is not only blind, but deaf, dumb and stupid as well. J. Michael Neal ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 00:04:19 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Kerzog, Demon Prince of Weaponry On Tue, 11 Aug 1998 Akumsa@aol.com wrote: > and did you ever SEE a John Woo film? Oh, yeah! I even stole the plot of "The Killer" to run as an IN adventure. Rocked out, even though my players distressingly resisted the urge to shoot a lot. :) > No one EVER runs out of bullets. (mind you, I have only seen 2 of his > pics I didnt like: A Better Tommrow, and Blackjack.The rest rock.) You > cant really give that kind of Attunment to angels. I don't see why not. One of my players has a Malakite (Azlan, Angel of the Dragon Court) who acts like he just walked out of a John Woo movie. He's even now trying to figure out how to make relic .50 Desert Eagles... Richard "Mr. Uriel" Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit my web page. The Gaming Ghetto, at In Nomine: The Last Days, at Walking the Planes, at - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 00:02:16 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> In Nomine Song Book now available for playtest From Pyramid Online: The In Nomine Song Book playtest files are now online. Visit http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/login/playtest/ to access them. The discussion board for it will be activated on Friday. You have to be a subscriber to Pyramid to get them, of course. (If you aren't a subscriber, why not? It's a measly $15/year.) Now's your chance to have some actual input on an upcoming In Nomine supplement. As the editor of the Songbook (and the guy who wrote the majority of it), I will be very interested in your comments. Those comments belong on the Pyramid playtest board, of course -- NOT here! See you there. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 23:20:15 -0500 From: Eeyore Subject: Re: IN> Why not take Dissonance to escape Geas? Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > A Geas becomes part of your nature. It becomes warm and comforting > to go along with it, to put your brain on auto-pilot and let the > Geas almost take over. It is hard and painful (okay, think of > dissonance as a painful thing -- vicious cramps, for those of us > who have dysmenoreah... a knife in the gut for you guys). Even > *thinking* about it is thinking about the promise of pain. > > Lilim are conditioned by their *natures* to follow a Geas, too, > I'd think. (Especially the Free, but also the bound.) By > psychology and metaphysics, a Geas is unthinkable to break. Most > Geases broken by Lilim are probably ones that have placed them in > a position where it's dissonant if they do and dissonant if they > don't. [Ellen slams Amanda up against the wall and snarls, "You > idiot! YOU PUT ME IN GEAS-CONFLICT WITH AN ARCHANGEL!" (Not the > smartest thing to say, but hey, she had a nasty Geas-conflict > going...)] If this is the case, then no Archangel in his or her right mind would set a Bright Lilim loose to face the world with a significant geas owed to an infernal, particularly a DP. It's a situation that truly will always end in tears. No matter how risky, they'll strip the geases from the Bright. Otherwise they have a walking time bomb of treason on their hands. They certainly would never have one living unsupervised in a city controlled by demons. Living there openly, at that. The more airtight the case against Mira being able to evade the geas becomes, the more implausible the scenario of her being put in that situation in the first place. Granted, I think the whole situation demonstrates that David is an idiot with a criminally deficient set of morals. But Blandine, too? > (Also note that in the FotM situation, there was only *one* path > that would have brought her dissonance -- resisting the Geas. The > rest was *bad*, it was *wrong*, it was *rude* even. But it wasn't > dissonant.) Which shows the deficiency of using dissonance as the primary (if not only) measuring stick for an angel's morality. J. Michael Neal ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 21:22:48 PDT From: "Doug Muir" Subject: IN> Humanocentrism (was Kerzog) >Yes, I did read the writeup. Yes, Nybbas invented TV, it's one of the >_very_ few examples of a celestial having such a major impact with a single >invention. In general, _humans_ invented most things (with perhaps some >occasional prodding by angels and demons here and there). To say that a >demon invented gun powder, nearly every type of gun, and nuclear weapons is >to make humans largely irrelevant in the evolution of human warfare. It's >way too much celestial interference. Your campaign, of course, is your >campaign, but nothing like that would ever be approved in canon, nor would >I want to play in a game where celestials do most of the important things >and humans just use what they get handed. Yo. Just chiming in here with agreement. I think it makes things much more interesting if we keep things relatively humanocentric, especially in the technological fields. For one thing, it makes humans more important (and also more dangerous). For another, angels and demons are interested in morality and behavior. Technology is sort of secondary. They're trying to redeem or corrupt us; giving us faster modems or cold fusion is of interest only insofar as it aids those goals. Personally, I'd allow for a bit more angelic/demonic intervention in the sphere of ideas... religion, philosophy, literature. I'd be much more willing to accept demonic influence on Nietzsche, Machiavelli, or the Marquis de Sade than on, say, Oppenheimer, Robert Goddard, or Werner Heisenberg. A separate but related question is, to what extent do we allow celestial influence on major historical _political_ figures? My own spin on this is that few, if any, of the great names in history have actually been celestials... but that many people _close to_ them were. So, Czar Nicholas and Lenin were human, but Rasputin was probably a demon (and a darn tough one). Hitler and Goering and Goebbels were human, but Martin Bormann (Hitler's personal secretary) might not have been... and so forth. Doug M. dougmuir@hotmail.com P.S. BTW, two of you did guess correctly: the human historical father of the seven demons in "The Class of '45" was, indeed, Trotsky. If you go back and look, it does make a lot of pieces fall into place... Trotsky, dead in 1940, was brilliant, cosmopolitan, a master strategist, and consistently unfortunate. He was wicked, but not thoroughly, and he never lost the dangerous habit of questioning assumptions. This is, of course, the reason that it felt so _wrong_ for the Calabite to be trashing the Russian army. The Red Army, its direct ancestor, was Trotsky's beloved creation... One of these days maybe I'll get another installment of that out... is anybody still interested? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 21:36:17 PDT From: "Doug Muir" Subject: IN> Dissonance question >In a broader sense, one of my problems with the way the IN game system >works, and something I would change were I to run it, is the nature of >Dissonance and Falling. Whether an angel becomes Outcast or Falls is >determined by dissonance. The dissonance is acquired by violating one's >nature, absent any question of whether or not the actions that caused it >are right or wrong. Yes! This is something that has occasionally bothered me too. >Falling is a profoundly moral statement/action that the game system >treats in an entirely practical manner. For the game world to have any >point, it must be treated in a moral fashion. Actually, I think this is true of Falling, Rising, and Dissonance generally. Let's start with a simple question. Can an angel gain Dissonance by doing something that is evil, but not "against his nature" in the sense of violating his Choir attunements or the rules of his Superior? Say, for instance, that a Malakite of one of the fiercer AAs pursues a minor demon into a village full of innocent people. The demon's not a serious threat, but has managed to quite thoroughly annoy the angel. It is very well hidden in the village, though. So the Malakite orders his human Soldiers to conduct a brutal My Lai style massacre and kill *everyone* in the village, women, babies, old folks, everyone. Dissonant? -- We'll assume it doesn't violate any oath. You say no? Okay, change the Malakite to, oh, a Cherub. He's not attuned to anyone right now... maybe he's ticked because the demon hurt his ward. Or maybe he's just ticked. Still no dissonance? You can pick holes in this example, of course. But the question still remains. Can an angel get Dissonance for "generically evil" actions? My vote is yes... at least sometimes, when the action is *clearly* evil. After all, being "good" is part of all angels' nature... it's the common substrate of all the Choirs. But canon, I think, is silent on this point. Thoughts? Doug M. dougmuir@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 07:37:43 +0100 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Angelic Hearts At 22:19 11/08/98 -0500, you wrote: > >But that's only my secondary complaint. The more important one is that >the idea that destruction of a Heart can only be caused by its Angel is >right, and it would be even if the APG hadn't concretely said so. I haven't read the book yet but this has brought up something I was curious about. We know that celestial hearts can't be taken out of the celestial realms, but would it be possible to steal a heart and take it directly from hell to heaven, or vice versa? (Assuming that you had a way to travel directly from one to the other) > If not, (to paraphrase someone I can't remember) God >is not only blind, but deaf, dumb and stupid as well. > (Or to quote from one of my games: Dominic: It is rightly said that Justice should be blind. That doesn't mean that it also has to be deaf.) jo - --- O Lord, grant that we may always be right, for Thou knowest we will never change our minds. -- Old Scottish Prayer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 07:48:30 +0100 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Dissonance question At 21:36 11/08/98 PDT, you wrote: > > >You can pick holes in this example, of course. But the question still >remains. Can an angel get Dissonance for "generically evil" actions? > >My vote is yes... at least sometimes, when the action is *clearly* evil. >After all, being "good" is part of all angels' nature... it's the common >substrate of all the Choirs. But canon, I think, is silent on this >point. > It's quite difficult to define 'generically evil.' I think that an angel which genuinely feels justified in its actions and isn't engaging in anything which would be dissonant to its choir or its word shouldn't be picking up dissonance just because the GM thinks that slaughtering innocents should be a crime against humanity. I mean, it probably _is_ but the angel's superior/ allies/ divine inquisition should be able to deal with it ICly. Dropping unexpected dissonance on someone is like the GM making a personal comment. A Malakite which knows that a Shedite is hiding out amongst a room full of women at a coffee morning might feel justified in killing all of them, just to make sure, if he could think of no better way to pinpoint the demon. It is intensely unlikely that many other angels would agree, even if the Malakite had absolute proof that the demon was planning to do something worse. For better or worse, I think it is part of the flavur of the game that angels will sometimes do things which an unenlightened observer might regard as morally dubious, in the course of fighting the war. You'd hope most of them would regret the necessity afterwards, but that isn't absolutely necessary IMO. jo - --- O Lord, grant that we may always be right, for Thou knowest we will never change our minds. -- Old Scottish Prayer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:06:29 +0100 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: IN> Psychedelic furs NB. Someone freed 6000 mink from a fur farm here recently (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_147000/147710.stm), which I blame for this. Maya shares responsibility! There was also a story that some historian claims that Christ's head is buried underneath a Scottish church, but someone else can write that up :) Summary: A load of mink have been recently released by some animal rights activists. They are busily slaughtering the local wildlife, turning up in people's houses and making a nuisance of themselves. A soldier of Jordi is known to have been involved. Various other celestial plans have been hindered by stray mink getting in the way and there has been a spate of relievers/ familiars being vessel-killed -- is there more to this than there seems? There is much displeasure directed at Jordi, and whoever else might prove to have been involved, and the archangel of animals directs his servitors to get those mink _back_! Unfortunately, they are harder to herd than cats... Background: Sheila, a free lilim who has recently arrived on earth to carry out a 6 month contract for Malphas, has been assigned to picking up geases on animal rights activists. Whilst dilligently doing this, she resonated a man who really _needed_ to free captive animals. Sheila thought this was a great idea, and maybe if he turned out to have soldier or servant potential, Lilith might be willing to bargain some geases for him -- in any case it sounded like a good freedom rite and it fitted with part of her current role. If she could help him free some animals, surely everyone would be happy! What she didn't know was that the man, Andrew Walker, was already involved in celestial affairs as a highly motivated soldier of Jordi, with a few unconventional ideas. The pair of them targetted the mink farm and, with a few of Andrew's friends, managed to sneak in and free the Hampshire 6000! He now owes the lilim a geas/5 for helping him to organise this, and is as yet unaware of her true nature. He spoke to Sessa, his local angel-contact, about this after the event and was surprised that she did not seem to share his enthusiasm, so he returned home in a sulk and gave statements to a lot of local newspapers and radio stations defending his actions. Word has spread quickly amongst local angels that Jordi was responsible for the free mink problem, and his other servitors are picking up a lot of the blame. Sheila doesn't much care about any of this, but there have been a few minor problems with local demons which lead her to believe that this is causing much more trouble than intended. The demon she is supposed to be working for is incensed at the reaction this affair is having on the animal rights campaign -- he wasn't ready for it all to blow up yet! As the mink get up to more and more mischief, she is attracting unwanted attention from plenty of other local demons also... And as if that wasn't enough, one of Janus' cherubim has been sighted in the area, and was even seen at the mink farm on the day of the release. He even chatted to the liberators. He thought Sheila seemed strangely repressed and attuned, telling her he'd swing back in a couple of days to pick her up, so she'd better get packed. Neither of them have a clue as to what each other is, but he'll be a natural suspect, if she can find out and pin it on him. But that cherub of the wind attunement means she is unlikely to want to... Personalities: Sessa, Ofanite of Animals Sessa is as flighty as you would expect but she is stationed locally to protect rare species of woodland birds. Exactly the sort which mink will happily butcher if they can catch. Her first reaction on hearing Andrew's news was absolute horror. The mink will cripple the local ecosystem; they are vicious killers who are foreign to this environment. She doesn't are for fur farming, but this is just bad. She is trying to recruit help in rounding up as many of the mink as possible. She doesn't really care if they get humanely killed, as long as they get out of her woods! She doesn't really understand what effect the mink problem might have on animal right's groups - -- mortal politics isn't her speciality. She might need to recruit help to deal with that also. She will be keen to follow up any mink sightings and try to explain to anyone who has been inconvenienced by the creatures that it isn't their fault.. entirely. Tyler, Mercurian of Animals Tyler is very optimistic in his views on animals in general. He is fairly new to the area, and is working into his role as a vet. Whilst he agrees in principle with Sessa, he does feel that maybe the poor mink should be allowed to breed and thrive if they can survive a winter on their own. The ecosystem will adapt... He may change his opinions on mink in general if one of the vicious little fiends bites him, but will probably be sensible enough to have some padded gloves handy. He may show up to try to calm down any aggravated local situation in which any of the local celestials who are angry at Andrew and the mink are getting a bit out of order. He also casually encourages the animal rights activists to do more of the same in future, but more carefully. Anyone who gets friendly with him will have a contact who is competent at animal handling and willing to come out on short notice to deal with mink sightings. Events: Minks have been slaughtering local wildlife, people's pets and terrorising local children, and have even been seen in people's houses. They also seem to turn up in plenty of strange places and cause plenty of mischief, without any celestial help at all. There are other incidents to be investigated... - -- An angel of Novalis had been establishing a local safe house for battered women and their children. Since someone found a mink in the bathroom that bit a child, many of her clients don't dare to come into the house any more... - -- Angels of Michael have found minks nesting in their grenade launchers. Normally the solution to this would be very simple and very obvious, but a Malakite of Fire is currently training with them, and would be unhappy if it saw angels being cruel, even to a mink. - -- A demon of technology was setting up a complicated experiment which failed in an explosive manner, due to a stray mink having chewed through a set of wires.. he is out for Sheila's blood. - -- One of the minks sneaked underneath a car and located a nice shiny necklace, which it hauled off to its nest. Unfortunately the necklace was a relic, it was being temporarily hidden there by a theft demon, and the minks nest happens to be in.. a tether of judgement. - -- There has been a spate of relievers/ familiars in small animal vessels who have been vessel killed by something appearing to be a mink. In fact these all genuinely are mink killings -- the small celestials weren't corporeally up to dealing with vicious mink teeth. But that won't stop people suspecting some kind of conspiracy. Judgement and the Game may get involved... - -- Animal rights activists have been very outspoken. Most sane groups have been coming down against the mink-freeing, with a few notable exceptions. Media coverage shows lots of cute bloodied corpses that mink have left in their wake and public opinion has no sympathy for them. This might be putting back the anti-fur case by years! (Note: A spokesperson for the Animal Liberation Front actually did say 'Yes, most of the mink will be killed, but at least they will have had a taste of freedom!') - -- Sheila has a lot of questions to answer. She tried her best to put all the blame on Andrew, but the trail was a little weak. She even tried contacting Lilith to ask for help and the only answer she had was 'What is it worth?' - -- If anyone successfully summons Jordi, he'll probably just possess every single mink within a 5 mile radius. What happens after that depends on what kind of mood he is in! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:18:29 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Adventure Seed: "Blind Faith" -BIG POST!!- On Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 06:35:12PM -0700, Akira wrote: > The Death: > David Day had no choice. He possessed DT. Marlow and made him shoot > himself by the lake. > Just another police suicide! Lazameish hated doing it, but_that_one humans > actions were gonna ruin everything. The risk and pain of dissonance was a > large price to pay but the Revolution calls for some nasty methods. Yea, > whatever. . . he was just gonna mess things up okay. My memory may be faulty but I believe that should he kill Dt. Marlowe in a funny enough way, he escapes dissonances, since that's part of the Impudite of Dark Humour attunement. (He even gets Essence for it, IIRC. So it's quite a plus, really.) Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Yet it cannot be called talent to slay fellow-citizens, to deceive friends, to be without faith, without mercy, without religion; such methods may gain empire, but not glory." Machiavelli, the Prince. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:37:18 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Angelic Hearts On Tue, Aug 11, 1998 at 10:19:49PM -0500, Eeyore wrote: > "Others note that most Hearts can't be shattered by others... Yes, > this took an artifact specially made by the Prince of Factions, who > knows quite a lot about fractures... " > > I have two very serious problems with this response. The first is that > the statement in the APG contains no wiggle room. I will quote again, > slightly more fully. "Only the angel's own actions can cause the final > destruction of his Heart. Until an Outcast falls, his Heart is sacred > and inviolable, even to his Superior." There is no ambiguity in this > statement. It does not admit the possibility of, "...but Malphas knows > a lot about fractures, so he can create an artifact that can do it." > Hmm...if one thinks of this as a statement of what angels in general would know, which is what I'd expect to have in the APG (as opposed to the Angelic Storyteller's Guide), then it stands. Angelic Superiors can't, so far as their Servitors know, finally destroy their own Servitors' Hearts. Malphas is a different story. I think of this artifact as being an extension of the Calabite of Factions attunement, which is able to temporarily sever the emotional and intellectual links that bond Cherubim to their attuned, Celestials to their Superiors, etc. Since any Joe Calab of Factions can do this, what can Malphas do? The dissonance is acquired by violating one's > nature, absent any question of whether or not the actions that caused it > are right or wrong. How do you measure right and wrong, except by what is dissonant? If you can sit down a Servitor of War and a Servitor of Flowers and get them to agree on what should be done about, say, a gang of muggers, I'd be very impressed. Mira Klein is the perfect example of this. It is her > nature to fulfill the geas, yet it is very obvious that the Right Thing > To Do would be to resist the geas and not shatter Maximilian's Heart. > (This also begs the question of how the inherent nature of Bright Lilim > is different from the Dark variety.) It doesn't, except insofar as they are bound to an angelic Word, and the nature of that Word prevents them from Geasing others. If the situation were properly > role-played (assuming Mira were a PC) I would never condemn her to Fall, > no matter how much dissonance she picked up in resisting the geas. > Nor should you. IIRC, violating a Geas doesn't cause dissonance rolls, even though it causes dissonance. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Yet it cannot be called talent to slay fellow-citizens, to deceive friends, to be without faith, without mercy, without religion; such methods may gain empire, but not glory." Machiavelli, the Prince. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 12:41:29 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Shedim Problem (Re: Why not spread the Word) On Tue, Aug 11, 1998 at 11:39:00AM -0400, Walter Milliken wrote: > >So what are the good Shedim killing tactics? Firstly, the Celestial Song > >of Shields, which will prevent it from leaving the area in which it is > >cast (it blocks Celestial Forces) except through a host. > > I believe there's been a canon ruling (though possibly not a public one) > that Cel. Shields does *not* block celestials from going to the > celestial realm. There is a new Song in the Songbook, though, that > *will* do this (assuming the Song passes playtest). > This is why I referred to Earthside options down below. If it does head downstairs, it'll have to return to the place from which it descended (which it won't want to do in the short term, or a Tether, which will draw the attention of its Superior. Either way, the Shedite is out of the area for the moment, though unfortunately not dead. (I didn't know of the ruling, but assumed it from the writeup of the Song.) > > Secondly, try to > >keep potential hosts away from the area. Either that or have a couple of > >people on the ground smacking it with the Celestial Song of Charm (do this > >anyway in fact, on general principles). Once you've achieved this, its > >only Earthside option is to stay and fight. As a plus, the Song of Shields > >will also delay the disturbance. IIRC, it lasts for minutes. > > The other dirty trick is to render the host unconscious and drag it into > a Tether (Cel. Motion is good for this). The Shedite will start frying > when it comes out of the host (as it will be forced to within 30 > minutes). I don't have the book with me, and can't remember how that works. How does the frying work? Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Yet it cannot be called talent to slay fellow-citizens, to deceive friends, to be without faith, without mercy, without religion; such methods may gain empire, but not glory." Machiavelli, the Prince. ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #908 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.