From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Aug 14 03:30:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA21371 for ; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 03:30:14 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id DAA14240 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 14 Aug 1998 03:37:18 -0500 Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 03:37:18 -0500 Message-Id: <199808140837.DAA14240@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #916 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, August 14 1998 Volume 01 : Number 916 In this digest: Re: IN> More FotM grumbles Re: IN> Gates of hell Re: IN> over page counts Re: IN> Lilim Traps (Re: Dissonance question) Re: IN> angel atvantage IN> ANOTHER new Archangel IN> Song of Symphony IN> Broken Hearts Re: IN> ANOTHER new Archangel Re: IN> Fall of the Malakim (Vauge spoilers only) IN> Little Girl Lost (plot seed) Re: IN> angel atvantage Re: IN> Little Girl Lost (plot seed) Re: IN> Little Girl Lost (plot seed) Re: IN> Little Girl Lost (plot seed) Re: IN> Song of Symphony Re: IN> FotM's supposed Flaws (Spoilers aplenty!) Re: IN> Fall of the Malakim Nitpicks. [Here there be Spoilers!] Re: IN> Dominic's Resonance (FotM Spoiler) IN> Real Life In Nomine 0:) Re: IN> Spooking Shedim (Re: Malakites and burning villages) Re: IN> Lilim Traps (Re: Dissonance question) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 23:26:51 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Emily K. Dresner" Subject: Re: IN> More FotM grumbles > I just errata'ed the last sentence of p. 117, if anyone cares. (And, > to rant and rave, APG passed without any Line Editor whatsoever. My > best tweaks were to remove some of the check-digit tables. If I'd been > truly in the saddle, the APG would have been.... much different.) It likely would have read like the IPG. Which is so good that, for some reason that not even GOD knows, seems to live on the floor next to my bed. Maybe I can't sleep without my beloved Lilim or something. - - Em, who just got done Playing IN Backwards! Hell yeah, Word Support! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 04:31:22 +0100 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Gates of hell At 16:14 13/08/98 -0500, you wrote: >> 1) The people streaming past are all dead, and most or all of >> the demons he sees are without corporeal vessels and thus dead, >> or not alive anyway, in the physical sense. The physical sense >> would seem to be enough; no one seems to think Malakim are obliged >> to soul-kill every demon they encounter. > >Your second reason I could buy but this I must disagree. Evan PC know these >soals are not dead and thay will regenirate vessals and be back on earth >soon. > Maybe he just doesn't see any demons because he is so busy with his work, and he has been ordered never to look back... Or maybe it would be a worse evil to neglect his job... Or maybe the gates of hell are closed from the inside, either to keep the demons in (egads, surely Asmodeus must have some Djinn stationed on the far side to do precisely that?), or because the demons want to fence off Hell and make it clear that it is their turf, and consider the gates to be a line of defence against heaven. Or some more metaphorical reason involving demons being unable to face the fact that they could just walk out. What I wonder is how often the angels of Final Judgement have to intervene because they see a soul on its way into Hell and they are uncertain that it belongs. A hokey (because it must have been used in loads of films, I've seen at least 2) but good plot seed might involve a mortal soul which genuinely believed it deserved to go to hell, but got stopped at the gates because the Malakite thought it saw some glimmer of goodness and needed to have that checked out. PCs could be involved with trying to take statements from everyone that mortal had ever known in their life, whether dead or alive, to see whather they had actually done more good than they thought. Demonic PCs could be trying to make sure that the /right/ evidence got suppressed. jo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 23:32:44 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Emily K. Dresner" Subject: Re: IN> over page counts > > No reason at all. Except that if it's going into a future supplement, > > it probably won't go online first. (I do have some notions as to > > where those 150 words might go, yes. I am saving them for that.) > > Promises, promises... What kind of Geas am I going to be hit with if you DO > fulfill this Need? Why, it'll be to me if it is to go up on the INC if approved, and it'll be a 6. I'll make you HTML-ize and post all 104 INC documents that are sitting, waiting in the queue that I spent 4 hours on this morning - work of which consisted laregely of me sitting at my desk, staring at the pages going, 'my god, how am I going to reorganize some of this'. HAH! I'm a slavedriver AND I'm mean. On the other hand, I wonder if there can be a new area set up for IN outtakes or something. Hrm. Dunno. It wouldn't be my doing if it was, although the INC is the most likely. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 23:38:13 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Emily K. Dresner" Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Traps (Re: Dissonance question) > Okay, you're a normal Lilim, Hellborn, unredeemed. You have, for > some reason, resonated an angel who knows what you are. You get > the following Need: > > "I want this Lilim to understand selflessness, to know what it's > like to hear the true Symphony, to feel love." > > And what do you do? It's completely within your power (maybe?) to > change yourself, to break your brain and try very hard to fulfill > this Need (which may be a 5 or 6, even). You could get there, > you could do it. > > But if you did, you'd no longer want the hook it would bring. > You *would* have *changed* yourself. Fulfilling the Need would > make you other than you are, and that great hook on an angel -- > would be given away instantly. And this becomes a goofy problem when you're hot on the Angel who originally had that Need in the first place and was going around imagining you in the buff with wings. :) *heave a great sigh* *put out more little Judgment traps consisting of notebooks with cool paper and multicolored pens* I blame it all on Eli and his Hostess Fruit Pies, you know. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 20:41:50 -0700 From: Dale Friesen Subject: Re: IN> angel atvantage >I have never liked the angle atvantage but reading heavan and hell I am >pushed over the edge. It seems evan at there own home thay can't relaxe. 1. >angels are watching the gates of heavan as well as hell. 2. Demons entering heavan >sound an alarm in hell angels sound nothing. 3. Angels in hell don't get sucked >back to heavan after spending just a few hours downs there. Heck one could evan >live down there if thay wated two. If I was saten the first thing I would do is move >those two lugs at the front door or cut a deal and put some demons at the gates of >heaven. (not combat wise just to keep things fair) >as a player of demons and a GM with many demons Chars. The disatvantages (in >short) suck. It is like SJgames doesn't want you to play demons. It's interesting you think that, because if you look at the Revelations cycle Hell seems to be winning: 1) Night Music: There's a new Demon Prince 2) The Marches: In the expanded write up of Gabriel it's made clear she's insane and needs supervision 3) Heaven & Hell: Nothing really momentous here 4) Fall of the Malakim: Heaven is infiltrated and a Heart shattered (which sets an amazing precedent with huge implications) and a Malakim either falls or at the very least believes that he falls and the Host seems to believe it, too. 5) The Final Trumpet: This will introduce Khalid, who is apparently also insane or at least not cooperating with the rest of Heaven. Further, the adventure in Liber Reliquarum shows Michael to clearly be working against other in the Host. Eli hasn't been detailed yet, but between him, Gabriel and Khalid there are three Superiors who don't get to Heaven at all, and there are rumours (canonically, I think) that one or more of them might be headed toward a Fall (I know of no rumours that any DP might even possibly consider redemption, OTOH). Add to this our esteemed LE's (admittedly light-hearted) self-association with Hell, and I think that it's at least a little unfair to say that SJGames is entirely favouring the Host over Hell. All just IMHO, of course. Any opinions expressed are mine and not necessarily the book store's. Dale Friesen Sysadmin Bolen Books, Inc Victoria, BC Canada dfriesen@amtsgi.bc.ca http://www.bolen.bc.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 23:47:11 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> ANOTHER new Archangel >>>Its more canon than Kerzog,<<< Uh, well, no it's not since anything posted here is completely non-canon anyway. :) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 23:47:15 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Song of Symphony >>>Barring that, get someone to sing the Song of the Symphony. It's one Essence, and for something this important, it shouldn't be that difficult to convince /somone/.<<< Just a general point of information (which will probably be added to errata, once the Songbook goes to print): the Song of Symphony's Essence Requirement will be probably be raised to 4. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 23:47:07 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Broken Hearts >>>Actually, quite the opposite is said. Leading me to conclude that angelic Hearts are different beasts than infernal Hearts. This is why I formed the opinion (still held, by the way) that an angelic Heart is the symbolic representation of an angel's relationship with God. So, as far as I'm concerned, the sentence I quote above that you wrote, is the right answer.<<< Well, that becomes your own house rule, then, which is perfectly fine. As far as I know, though, it's not canon that angelic Hearts are fundamentally different from demonic hearts. The sentence "Only the angel's own actions can cause the final destruction of his Heart" _does_ have to be taken in context, namely that it is referring to his relationship with his Superior, as you pointed out. The SUPERIOR may only allow the angel's own actions to result in his Heart breaking. Yes, that is a little bit weaselly, and in general, Hearts should be considered indestructible....otherwise demons would be making hit-and-run raids on Heaven. But you can take it for granted, throughout the game, that Superiors can usually do things that are supposedly "impossible" if they really, really want to and put enough energy into it. It's called a "plot device," and as long as it doesn't bend the fundamental mechanics of the universe or introduce inconsistencies (which I don't think this example does -- I'm not going to defend all the other problems with FotM), I don't see anything wrong with them. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 00:18:13 EDT From: Akumsa@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> ANOTHER new Archangel Point. but still better than my last no? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 23:35:35 -0500 From: Matt Lee Subject: Re: IN> Fall of the Malakim (Vauge spoilers only) >But there's one *huge*, glaring difficulty for me: >I am a GM with a Malak PC. > >I had to literally beat him off my copy with the main In Nomine rulebook. (So >he's a 15 year old playing a Malak of Michael...) He's still whining that he >wants to know if he can fall or not. I'm tempted to just let him read the >adventure, and see if he sees something I don't. (heh) Oh boy, I'm gonna have me one of those. Ofcourse I mentioned the adventure and whenever I mention the possibility of a Malakite falling he goes "They CANT!" very distinctly. Ofcourse he's taking that from the rulebook and I tried to carefully explain to him that its not really known whether they can or can't, but none have and don't worry 'cause his isn't gonna. Yeesh. And had to explain to him (w/o giving anything away) that from what I've heard on the list, the adventure doesn't really determine it either, which IMHO is good. So the difference is, my Malakite PC is a little older, doesn't whine much, but rather than asking if he can fall, when I mention "The Fall of the Malakim" he says "They CANT fall!" so, Oy, I'll have to see what happens, should take me a bit to get through the first 3 Revelations books though. Matt "There's a big black shape lookin' up at me...says 'Hell is where you ought to be'...he says 'Come with me and I'll show you DESIYAH! But first you've got to BURN - BURN - BURN - BURN IN FIYAH! Oooooh Somewhere in HELL!" - Ronnie James DIO Matt Lee mattlee@execpc.com http://www.execpc.com/~mattlee/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 00:41:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Doubting Eric Subject: IN> Little Girl Lost (plot seed) Little Girl Lost. A seed. This is the first in a series of thematically similar seeds. Sort of my own Cycle, as it were. I tried to make it generic enough for anyone to plug in, and hopefully I succeeded. Comments and criticism are welcome. ---------------------------------------------------------- It was a beautiful Sunday morning in Sometown, and rows of neatly-trimmed lawns butted up against the neatly-paved driveways, which were rapidly filling with neatly-dressed people getting into neatly-waxed cars to go to church. Except for the house of the angels. Mr. Jones tried to comfort his wife, who had been curled around the bassinet in tears all morning. "I've called the police, dearest. They've promised me they're doing everything they can." "They took her, Peter. They came into our /house/ and they took her. And they have her now." Mr. Jones frowned, acutely concerned over something. "She hasn't been hurt, has she?" Mrs. Jones shook her head. "No. I'd know if they did. They're just...holding her." Her husband nodded, holding his wife close to himself. "Then we'll find some way to get her back, my love. I promise." And across town, in a warehouse long since abandoned, a hard-featured woman cooed to the infant in her arms, as her business-suited minions stood guard. "You're Mommy's little angel, yes you are. A perfect little angel..." ------------------------------------------------------------- This is an plot seed and not a full adventure, so it contains mostly backstory and vague NPC outlines. You will also notice a deliberate sense of genericness in names/places/etc. This is because I am not only trying to make this open for any campaign, but also because I'm terrible with names. It's expressly designed for angelic PCs, so altering it for demons is left as an exercise to the reader. There is a large potential for combat here, although it is not the only method of resolution available to the players. Sometown, USA is a terrifyingly normal suburb of whichever city happens to be reasonable. Think "Leave It To Beaver" for the 90's. Yes, it's Suburban Hell. Tract homes, manicured lawns, and everyone friendly and neighborly. Why, you ask, did such an anomaly pop up? Novalis. Or more specifically, one of her Cherubim. This angel has been assigned to Smalltown for more than twenty years, and charged with doing nothing more than spreading peace and goodwill. And, in one of those shining moments of the War, it has worked. Mary Jones, the aforementioned Cherub, is an active member of the Sometown community. She's part of the Women's Association, the Sewing Circle, the community church, and she also does charity work in her free time. Professionally, she's an author, specializing in horticulture how-to books. Her husband, Peter Jones, owns and manages the arts and crafts store in downtown Sometown. He coaches the elementary school baseball team, teaches art classes at the local senior centre, and is regarded in the community as a model husband and father. Peter is fully aware that he is married to an angel; in fact, he is one as well. A Mercurian of Creation, he has been Mary's lover for close to a century now, and the two of them have lived as Mr. and Mrs. Jones for more than two decades. Thirteen months ago, Peter and Mary approached Novalis with their desire: They wanted to have a child. But, they explained, they wanted to raise the new angel as a /child/, and petitioned Novalis to create their offspring as a Reliever, who would, when the time was right, fledge on her own. Novalis was curious, and agreed. A Reliever was created nine months later, and given the Vessel of a newborn infant. And in Sometown, Mr. and Mrs. Jones proudly announced the birth of their first child. The Jones household remained a bastion of familial bliss for four months after that, with little Lucinda ('Cindy') being fawned over by her parents and nearly every other adult in Sometown. And whenever they heard the phrase 'perfect little angel', Peter and Mary would just smile. Last night, that all changed. Mary woke up with a start. Something had happened to her child! She ran to the nursery without even taking the time to wake Peter, and there her eyes told her what she knew in the core of her being. Cindy was gone. Only the receding taillights of a dark car were visible on the street outside. Now, she's a mess. She knows from her resonance that the infant is not harmed, nor in danger, but Cindy is still /gone/, being held on the outskirts of town. Her husband is almost in worse shape, though. He not only feels the rage his wife cannot, but could also act on it to save his child, if it were not for one thing: The kidnappers are human. And not only human, but Hellsworn Soldiers. The kidnapping was the brainchild of a Habbalite of Fate, sent to Sometown several months ago at the personal behest of Kronos. Any town this perfect, Kronos figured, must have some darkness hiding at its core. The Prince of Fate sent Jezaniah, one of his most promising young Punishers, to find that heart of darkness and bring it to the fore. Jezaniah set out gladly, pleased at such a prestigious assignment. As time went on, though, she became wary. Sometown was, almost literally, perfect. Even her keen sense for the secret shame of humanity could find nothing out of place. She began to suspect Divine influence, and Divine influence she found. Peter and Mary Jones, radiant over the birth of their daughter Lucinda. And in her mind, the plans were laid to bring the family low, and Sometown with it. Jezaniah sought the Fate of Mary, and saw how precious Lucinda was to her, and how low the Cherub would fall without her. Even unto a literal Falling, as the grief and loss brought her to lash out against her very nature. The Habbalite returned to Hell, and presented Kronos with her findings. She asked only one thing in return: The child. Kronos considered. A Reliever, young and inexperienced, brought to Hell. Would it Fall? Would it retain its divinity? The Prince became as curious about the whole situation as Novalis was at its inception. And Jezaniah wanted a child, a pure, Heaven-born child, to raise as the angel she was. He granted her request. And so, things were set in motion. Jezaniah drafted the services of Soldiers from the city, organized criminals thoroughly under the thumb of Fate. She knew that the angels would be helpless against human assailants, and she was confident that within weeks, the angels would be shattered, their influence on Sometown would be shaken loose, and she would have her darling little angel daughter. She forgot one thing. Player Characters. ------------------------------------------------------------- The Plot: The backstory above gives What Has Gone Before. Peter has already called the police, but he has little faith in them, espescially in as crime-free a town as this. So he's pulling in markers. Any angels in the area that he knows are likely to get at least a phone call. If necessary, he'll ascend to Heaven (There are no known Tethers in Sometown, though, so it's not his first choice.) and seek help there. One way or another, he'll eventually come to the PCs. Peter will relate the story so far, as much as he knows anyway. This means that to the PCs, this will be something without /direct/ demonic intervention, althought one can never be sure when dealing with Soldiers. If Mary is spoken to, she will be barely coherent, fraught with worry for her child and the consequences if little Cindy is harmed. Neither of the Joneses will offer to accompany the PCs, and if asked will refuse outright. Both have their Roles to protect, after all. In addition, Mary will explain in a coldly calm voice that she wants, actually wants, the kidnappers to be hurt. This alone should convince the PCs that the matter is serious. Finding the kidnappers is fairly straightforward; Mary can tell the PCs exactly where the child is being held. Once they arrive there however, matters become complicated. Some of the PCs may not be able to harm humans. And while loyal Soldiers of Hell and criminals besides, the kidnappers are still human. A skillfull combination of ingenuity and careful violence should see them through, however. Then there is the problem of Jezaniah. She is, like any good Habbalah, quite thoroughly insane, and has already 'adopted' Lucinda as her own daughter. In fact, if there is any great commotion in the warehouse, Jezaniah will come out of a small office, holding the child and strictly admonishing anyone present to avoid 'disturbing the baby'. If the PCs take the fight directly to Jezaniah, there will be problems. She is a capable combatant on the celestial and corporeal realms both, and has a particular fondness for using Temporal Projection on anyone who presents too much of a threat. In addition, if it seems that she is incredibly outmatched, she will have no qualms about using Lucinda as a hostage. The PCs should know that this is a very real threat to Mary, who is already teetering on the brink of dissonance, and take this into account. For this scene, play up the tension of any hostage situation, magnified by the personal nature of the stakes. There really is only one 'good' resolution to this plot. Through careful negotiation, sneaky tricks, or violence so swift that there can be no reciprocation, the PCs get the child from Jezaniah. Assuming they make it out alive, life in Sometown will settle down to normal within days, and the PCs may or may not (depending on her survival) made an enemy of Jezaniah. If Lucinda is killed, either by Jezaniah or by misfortune, things will get bad. Mary will go over the edge at a frighteningly rapid pace, and the PCs will soon have a frothing Djinn on their hands if nothing is done about it. If, somehow, Jezaniah manages to escape /with/ Lucinda, even vengeance is no longer an option. The PCs have out and out failed, and Kronos gets to see just what happens to a Reliever in Hell. See above comment about frothing Djinn, although it will take much longer for Mary to go down the slow slope rather than go over the precipice. There are few if any material rewards from this, either corporeally or in terms of Archangel rewards. This is, primarily, a situation in which the angels can make friends, enemies or both. The only Archangel with any real interest in the matter is Novalis, and she might possibly be generous to those who helped her Servitor if things go well. --------------------------------------------------------------- NPC Notes: (I have not included stats. Just some general notes.) Mareshah, Cherub of Flowers - 9 Forces, due to the birthing process. Celestially weighted, most likely. Her Role as Mary Jones is at a significant level, 4-6 probably, and her skills reflect this. She is /not/ a combatant in any sense of the word. In fact, Novalis gave her the Seraph of Flowers attunement at the beginning of the Sometown assignment, so violence is even less of an option. She is neither dissonant nor Discordant yet, but she honestly is on the brink. If anything were to happen to Lucinda, she'd be in bad shape. Peter, Mercurian of Creation (in unofficial service to Flowers) - 10 Forces, again lowered due to the birth of Lucinda. Etherally weighted, with a significant number of Artistry skills. His Role should be equal to Mary's, and likewise supported by skills. He is not a completely incapable combatant, but it is not his forte, and he is probably ineffectual compared to the PCs. In addition to his Choir attunement, he also has the Ofanite of Creation and the Abracadabra attunements. Note that as a Mercurian of Creation, he /can/ make Talismans - You may want to use this to supply PCs with them, if you see fit. Lucinda, Reliever - 5 Forces. If you need stats, do whatever. She's too young to be used for anything, really. Jezaniah, Habbalite of Fate - 10 Forces and a fast-track demon. Spread them out evenly, she's a good all-around adversary. She also has the Fated Future /and/ Temporal Projection attunements, so feel free to skimp a bit on Songs or Skills. Soldiers, Mooks of Fate - Standard 6-Force Soldiers. Tough in a group, not too much trouble individualy. Gear the numbers towards the number of PCs. ------------------------------------------------------- It's my first posted seed. Be gentle. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 00:59:42 -0400 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: Re: IN> angel atvantage >Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 19:45:04 -0500 >From: The Bard >I have never liked the angle atvantage but reading heavan and hell I am pushed >over the edge. It seems evan at there own home thay can't relaxe. 1. >angels are >watching the gates of heavan as well as hell. Once again, most Demons who enter and leave Hell don't use the gates. They hop in near their Hearts, so they don't have to see the Angels if they don't want to. Plus these Angels can't wander around Hell slaughtering Demons, they have to sit where they are, and pluck out the unworthy heading for Hell. Everybody else gets in. > 2. Demons entering heavan sound an >alarm in hell angels sound nothing. If I recall correctly, Angels entering Hell sets off a Disturbance, but nowhere near as powerful as that of Demons entering Heaven. This is likely because Lucifer wants it that way; it is concievable that an Angel could enter Hell to talk to a Demon Prince without undue uproar. 3. Angels in hell don't get sucked back to >heavan after spending just a few hours downs there. Heck one could evan >live down >there if thay wated two. Operative phrase being 'If they wanted to.' First an formost, barring some mystic unrevealed powers, any Angel wandering around Hell is obviously an Angel, and while Lucifer frowns severely on killing said Angels outright, there are a host of other things Demons who bear a grudge could do to said Angel. Said angel will also not be regenerating Essence, so when he's out, he's in trouble. And don't even think of trying to summon your Superior to save your butt, he's not risking Armageddon to get you out. > If I was saten the first thing I would do is move those >two lugs at the front door or cut a deal and put some demons at the gates of >heaven. (not combat wise just to keep things fair) Heaven will obligingly send any human souls who show up at the gates, and are completely unworthy of entrance, to Hell. Hell may, or may not do the same, with heavy leaning towards 'not.' Said Angels are paragons of restraint, having committd themselves to their jobs for the last few thousand years, never wavering, never flinching, unless the Demons go out of their way to annoy them. > as a player of demons and a GM with many demons Chars. The disatvantages (in >short) suck. It is like SJgames doesn't want you to play demons. Demons can relax, seucre in the knowledge that the Angels of Final Justice are not going to run roughshod all over Hell, and that the lone, suicidal Angel who comes blundering in will either leave quickly, get captured, die, or Fall, unless he's Truly Badass. These 'disadvantages' of Hell are there because Lucifer wants them there, If he wanted to slay bthe Angels of Final Justice, he could. If he wanted Hell-wide alarm klaxons going off every time Angels set feather on the plains of Abbadon, he could make it so. His purpposes are better served by leaving them in place. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 01:20:21 EDT From: Akumsa@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Little Girl Lost (plot seed) Very good, I like it. Youre forgetting that automatically OTHER angels will have in Interest, Yves, for one. He is the divine counterweight to Kronos after all, and he will join the hunt for similar reasons, though for the opposite side. And also Christopher! OH, when he hears about this, expect a decending of servators of children upon the town. Dominic's servators may also get involved, cause if the Cherum is *that* close to falling, they are GOING to be there. (And of course, MY Archangel, Uziel. He dosent LIKE Kronos after all, and a whole bunch of Soldiers of Hell? Unjust! Target and destroy) And dont forget Demon princes. Some may take an nterest in asssting or hindering the idea. Kobal, just for the Sheer Irony of it all. Nybas, cause kidnapping stories make great TV coverage. (just for the fun of it, Kerzog {note: ANOTHER shamless plug for my creation, this time a demon prince}, A battle between Celestials, Soldiers and demons? Free guns for everyone!) Saminga (MAKE SURE someone dies, if they need help, so be it) Asmodeous (Make sure the Cherub falls, we could always use another Djinn) Heck, I wouldnt be surprised if the Lightbringer Himself showed up AFTER the child was taken. A reliver in hell? Even the one would like the idea. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- John T Perkowski, Ofanite of Arcade Games Maker of Attunements (Challenge me with a word, I guarantee, I get you an attunment for each band or chior in 24 hrs) Calabite Of Destruction Derbys. (Maniacal laughter, "Smash! Crush! Grind! Cruch!") - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "The surest sign that there is intelligent life in outerspace is that none of them has tried to contact us." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 01:48:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Doubting Eric Subject: Re: IN> Little Girl Lost (plot seed) On Fri, 14 Aug 1998 Akumsa@aol.com wrote: > Very good, I like it. > > Youre forgetting that automatically OTHER angels will have in Interest, Yves, > for one. He is the divine counterweight to Kronos after all, and he will join > And dont forget Demon princes. Some may take an nterest in asssting or In fact, I didn't forget. But you see, such things are /particulars/. And like all good particulars, dependent on the campaign in question. What if, in someone's campaign, Yves is actively engineering the destruction of Earth? What if, in someone's campaign, Kobal had Redeemed? I didn't want to make those assumptions, since doing so would limit the number of people who could potentially find a place for this seed in their campaigns. Eric, Elohite of Orc. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 07:18:21 +0100 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Little Girl Lost (plot seed) At 00:41 14/08/98 -0400, you wrote: > > ------------------------------------------------------- > >It's my first posted seed. Be gentle. > I liked it. Only one sticky point IMO -- why does the cherub not just ask Novalis to send it a couple of seraphim with songs of shields and go and get the child back? No-one can be violent at them... If you wanted to be much more evil, you could also say that Kronos was ambivalent about whether the Habbalah could keep the child but taught it the celestial song of fruition. The Habbie had its baby at the same time as the cherub, but it was a nephilim. Maybe the baby that the players 'rescue' isn't the real reliever at all... and the demon will refuse to give up the real one. It's the child she should have had! I feel a judgement of Solomon coming on... jo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 02:33:07 -0400 From: "Matthew D. Gandy" Subject: Re: IN> Song of Symphony David Edelstein wrote: > >>>Barring that, get someone to sing the Song of the Symphony. It's one > Essence, and for something this important, it shouldn't be that difficult > to convince /somone/.<<< > > Just a general point of information (which will probably be added to > errata, once the Songbook goes to print): the Song of Symphony's Essence > Requirement will be probably be raised to 4. > > -David The more I look at it, the more of a problem I have with the Song of Symphony. Raising it to 4 may not be enough--it costs 5 essence for The Akashic Record attunement of Yves', which does effectively the same thing more or less automatically successfully (that's a lot of adverbs--whew!), and it costs 10 CPs to buy, rather than the 6 maximum for Song of Symphony. Just a thought, Matthew D. "Demiurge" Gandy still looking for the face I had before the world was made ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 03:07:44 -0400 From: "Matthew D. Gandy" Subject: Re: IN> FotM's supposed Flaws (Spoilers aplenty!) Walter Milliken wrote: > Speaking from experience, there's another problem -- after you've seen N > revisions of something, it's a little hard to be clear on whether > everything in the N+1st revision is internally consistent, especially if > you've read stuff that was later cut. This sort of problem is much > easier to spot on a "cold" reading, which, unfortunately, everyone but > the authors is now doing.... > Although it may not be possible considering the content of some of the books (like the surprise twists of Cycle adventures), this is a great reason for playtesting more IN stuff on Pyramid. I have all of Songbook printed out now, specifically for the purpose of very careful notes, comments and marginalia. Anywhere you can avail yourselves of cogent commentary (especially considering the limitation of playtest copy to Pyramid subscribers) I would think would be helpful--after all, you're already reading the List and responding frequently and carefully. "Playtest commentary" might help some of those "Whoops!" situations, and emphasize the need to keep *certain* things in *some* form, even if trimming is necessary, just to make sure a small element in one book doesn't snowball into a catastrophe in another (like APG seems to be doing to some extent to FotM). > Elizabeth and I have been thinking about exactly these issues -- there > are a whole bunch of ideas floating around that may get picked up, that > aren't part of the Cycle concept. There are serious marketing questions > about what way to go -- with the industry in the bad shape it's in, > there's not much room for error. > > The Cycle books don't seem to be particularly popular as a concept, so > the concept may need to be revamped, or abandoned for another approach, > such as more "core" books. I'm a bit iffy on whether the Cycles are a > good idea or not, myself. Though Elizabeth and I do have some ideas for > future Cycles.... > This is the point where I would like to give those SJG writers who read and reply to the list a standing ovation. I really appreciate the fact that Archangel Beth, Walter, David, John and others take the time to listen and answer, and more importantly, are *conscientious* about the work they do for In Nomine. I understand that my (and others') suggestions about What to Do about the Cycle Books may already be old-hat, and that those writers are already wrestling with these issues, but I for one am quite glad that you *are* worrying over them, rather than planning the next year of material, gleefully uncaring as to whether or not it is effective for the development of the game or what buyers want in their IN supplements. You guys should take a bow--and a breather...but let us (your loyal audience) know when you *have* come to decisions about the next round o' books (assuming SJ let you :P). There are many of us curious to know. - -Matthew D. "Demiurge" Gandy still looking for the face I had before the world was made ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 03:07:55 -0400 From: "Matthew D. Gandy" Subject: Re: IN> Fall of the Malakim Nitpicks. [Here there be Spoilers!] Walter Milliken wrote: > Geases > probably shouldn't be listed as Discords, but rather an entirely > independent mechanism -- they tend to be exceptions to most of the > Discord rules, anyway. I agree that some consideration might be given to move Geases into a separate category from Discord for a potential 2nd Edition. Something about the fact that Calabim get points for their Discord, and Lilim don't get points (at character creation) for any potential Geases on them (like Mommy's). - -Matthew D. "Demiurge" Gandy still looking for the face I had before the world was made ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 03:07:49 -0400 From: "Matthew D. Gandy" Subject: Re: IN> Dominic's Resonance (FotM Spoiler) > And there's some stuff in FT which the GM can use to suggest that > the Outcasting is a ploy by Yves. You know, I was about to gripe about this again, and again suggested the "suicide mission" punishment, but I think I'm starting to guess where this is going, and I promise to keep my mouth shut about it until FT comes out. :) - -Matthew D. "Demiurge" Gandy still looking for the face I had before the world was made ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 03:07:59 -0400 From: "Matthew D. Gandy" Subject: IN> Real Life In Nomine 0:) I've just had a very curious thought: why is it that God (Derek Pearcy) remains aloof from his creation, while his Archangels (Archangel Beth, Walter Milliken, David Edelstein, etc.) have to do all of the explaining and dirty work? :P - -Matthew D. "Demiurge" Gandy still looking for the face I had before the world was made ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 18:14:38 From: Peter Frederick Subject: Re: IN> Spooking Shedim (Re: Malakites and burning villages) At 05:53 PM 13/8/98 -0400, you wrote: >At 12:35 PM +0300 8/13/98, Yossi Gurvitz wrote: >>At 02:51 13/08/98 , ArchBeth wrote: >> >>>You want the best way to catch the Shedite in the room full of people? >>> Have the Malakite break something, out of sight, so that the other >>>people won't see it. [...] > >> IMO, the disturbance from a Song or a broken item is very low - few >>celestials will notice it, unless they're (again, IMO) within a few hundred >>meters. > >The really good way is to use Thunder. The person who's left functioning >afterwards is the one who made his Will roll -- probably the demon... A slightly less brute force method that my players used was to have the group's two Kyrios try to possess each of a number of suspect Shed hosts in turn til they failed. They took this to be a good indicator that the person had a higher than human Will. It's a bit dodgey, but doesn't cost you anything for the attempt. Of course if you're feeling mean you could have a 50/50 sort of success result with both Kryio and Shed stuck with a fingertip in the Host. Regards, Peter. Reply to peterf@wr.com.au May the Goddess shelter you in the palm of her hand until we meet again. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 01:20:44 -0700 (PDT) From: -=|horsefly|=- Subject: Re: IN> Lilim Traps (Re: Dissonance question) On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: [helpful explanation snipped] > Is that better? Or do I need to get some blood sugar? O:> much, yes. no, that won't be necessary. i think that explains why, whenever KK sees such a need ("Redeem this demon"), she runs away rather than taking the angel up on it. -=|horsefly|=- "Back off, preacher, I don't care if it's Sunday. I ain't no angel, but I never felt better!" --FREEDOM, Alice Cooper ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #916 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.