From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Aug 19 15:24:45 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA06766 for ; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 15:24:45 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id OAA11639 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 19 Aug 1998 14:29:44 -0500 Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 14:29:44 -0500 Message-Id: <199808191929.OAA11639@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #923 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, August 19 1998 Volume 01 : Number 923 In this digest: Re: IN> INC Re: IN> INC Re: IN> IN writing & future books Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #917 IN> Link to In Nomine Collection by Emily Dresner Re: IN> Link to In Nomine Collection by Emily Dresner Re: IN> Stupid Lilim tricks (was Re: IN> Dissonance question) Re: IN> Superiors book Re: IN> The Janus Connection Re: IN> Is In Nomine In Trouble Re: IN> Is In Nomine In Trouble Re: IN> Is In Nomine In Trouble Re: IN> Is In Nomine In Trouble IN> Pyramid submissions IN> Tsarien's dissonance conditions IN> real life Lilim IN> More, Stupid (Balseraph) Lilim Tricks IN> The Conservation of Essence (My Eli Theory) Re: IN> The Conservation of Essence (My Eli Theory) IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #922 Re: IN> More, Stupid (Balseraph) Lilim Tricks IN> Stonehenge (was Sphinx again ) Re: IN> Stonehenge (was Sphinx again ) Re: IN> Stonehenge (was Sphinx again ) Re: IN> Stonehenge (was Sphinx again ) Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #922 Re: IN> Stonehenge (was Sphinx again ) Re: IN> Stonehenge (was Sphinx again ) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Aug 98 15:02 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> INC >In the mean time, in a fit of absolute incredible madness, I decided that >I hated the INC page I had spent so much time on and built one that just >looks better in less time. I changed link colors, unrolled the drop down >box, made the font bigger, and lots of other cool stuff. It's all very >bright and colorful. I stuck a link on top of the INC that says "New and >improved..." I caught a hatful of bugs when I was doing 'tour of >browsers' this morning, but there might be one or two left. So, if people >could look at it and tell me if you love it or hate it more then the >current, I'd love you all forever. Send mail to me at any one of my >fifteen accounts, but here (zenith@umich.edu) or there >(zenith@pyramid.sjgames.com) is fine. The new page is definitely an improvement on the old, though I think the graphic appearance may be a little generic (compared to the really old one, with all the flaming feathers on it). Perhaps you could get a reduced version of the flaming feather to put in at the left or right end of the headings -- one that was essentially one character high? Not sure how that would look, but I think it needs a little something -- it's a bit spartan-looking after the main SJG IN pages. The one major quibble I have with it is that some of the headings look like links: "What's New...", "New Articles..." and "About In Nomine..." all look like links, even though they're in a different color, especially after coming in from the main SJG IN pages, where links are sort of orangish-red. I suggest at least getting rid of the underline. Better might be to set them up with the red inverse bar format you use in other areas of the page. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:17:26 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> INC Very nice. Thank you for reducing the amount of red on black print, which I find very hard to read. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 98 15:22 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> IN writing & future books > If there is a book I would love to see, it is one dedicated to the >humans and less-than-angels, like the section in Night Music. This is certainly one of the ones Elizabeth and I have thought about a lot. It makes a lot of sense, since celestial characters are pretty well covered by the APG and IPG, but humans are currently split between the main book, Night Music, and The Marches. And it would give us room to cover the human perspective on the War, which hasn't really been seen, except in the vignettes a little. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:52:01 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #917 At 2:44 PM -0500 8/18/98, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> (Some Pyramid articles are more canonical than others. Consider them >> that nice word I alwasy forget that means, "Fuzzy canon." The story >> of Legion, for instance...) > >Was the word "deutero-canonical"? Or "apocryphal"? Deutero-canonical! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:33:10 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Link to In Nomine Collection by Emily Dresner http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/new_index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:39:21 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Link to In Nomine Collection by Emily Dresner (Oops. Wrong address on my previous post. I beg the list's pardon.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 98 16:07 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Stupid Lilim tricks (was Re: IN> Dissonance question) >On Wed, 12 Aug 1998, Walter Milliken wrote: > >> many Lilim may bargain anyway: "Why don't we save us both a lot of >> trouble, and you do this for me, and I won't invoke this Geas to have >> you do something you *really* don't want to do, and we'll call it >> square, okay?" > >Munchkin Alert: > >What's to stop a Lilim saying 'Well, now. *Either* I can invoke my Geas/6 >to make you kill (your dog/that cop/your chances of promotion) *or* you >can give me a hand robbing that there jewellery shop. Glad you saw sense. >See you again next year...' If the victim knows about Geases, they either (a) promise (accept a Geas) to help the Lilim with the heist *if* the Lilim gives back the hook or (b) makes the Lilim promise (self-Geas) to release the hook if they do what she wants. >Presumably a human will blow their 1d6-3 essence on the resistance roll, >but they still can't afford to call the Lilim's bluff. So a decent sized >Geas is worth far more in blackmail than it could possibly be to actually >use, no? Those who *don't* understand the specifics of Geases might either figure them out from the way the Lilim approaches her victim, or may simply hit on the right solution instinctively. But otherwise, they might accept a couple blackmail attempts before getting fed up and resisting. In my game, I'd probably make sure the Lilim who tried this got into some trouble before long, though it's true the game mechanics don't really forbid it. Also, I believe 1d6-3 is the average Essence for a human an Impudite is draining -- it's not all *that* unlikely that the Lilim may run into a human with 5 Essence from time to time. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 98 16:14 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Superiors book >Speaking of which, -will- we be seeing a Superiors book? I'd sure like >see one, especially if the portraits were in color like in the main book. That's all up to SJ & company down in Austin, really. And ultimately up to the audience (i.e., will it *sell*?). Note that a *single* Superiors book couldn't even hold just the expanded writeups (~25 Superiors, 10-12 pages each > 128 pages). And if the books added anything to what we've already got, which I'd prefer to do, you probably could only fit 3-5 Superiors into a single book. So there'd have to be several of them. >It'd also be a great place to put thos spiffy Superior rules Walter keep >alluding to. Actually, I have another place in mind for those. Though whether that book will happen is also a major question.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 98 16:18 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> The Janus Connection >I have the main book, so if this is explained further in APG or IPG or in any >other book, I apologize. > > The Janus Connection > >"... there has to be a reason that Valefor's and Janus's Servitors resemble >each other so much.... If not physically, then conceptually..." This was a very popular area of speculation when the book first came out, and any number of theories have been advanced. I cannot comment on which ones are more plausible.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 16:43:47 -0400 From: "Matthew D. Gandy" Subject: Re: IN> Is In Nomine In Trouble Emily Dresner wrote: > Several people (including myself, after being editted by Beth) have > submitted articles, and almost NO ONE has heard anything back yet. Or if > they have, we're gonna go over to their house and steal their stuff. > > I think that Pyramid submissions is much like submitting into the black > hole of Calcutta. I know about staff turnovers and all that other good > stuff, but it would be nice to get a 'we received it' form mail or > SOMETHING. I sent off in hrm, June, I think, and haven't heard anything, > period. I agree that a form letter denoting receipt of the article would be nice, but their review time is several months. In a recent chat on Pyramid, Scott Haring stated that 50 new articles had been reviewed and accepted for weeks to come (creating a buffer of approximately 10 weeks), but that anywhere from 80-100 articles still awaited consideration. How the recent management reshuffling will affect this is unknown, but we have been promised, often and emphatically, that every article is considered, and that some reply (rejection, acceptance or call for a rewrite) is forthcoming eventually. On a personal note, I've found their turnaround on reviews (Pyramid Picks) is fastest. Sometime in June I also submitted material, a review and an article. The review was accepted and posted the very next week, but I have yet to hear anything, good or bad, about my article. All I can suggest is patience, that the turnaround for articles appears to be at least 3 or 4 months. Just because they went to an online-only format doesn't mean the review process got faster, merely that our expectations were heightened by the weekly inundation of new stuff. :) On a side note, I seem to remember that some articles were at least *supposed* to be farmed out for review, GURPS articles to line editor Sean Punch, IN articles to our own Archangel Beth, etc. Can Beth confirm or deny this, or possibly shed a little light on this mystery? - -Matthew D. "Demiurge" Gandy still looking for the face I had before the world was made Postscriptum: For those with Pyramid access, there is a chat tomorrow (Wednesday, August 19) with S. John Ross, the new editor of Pyramid magazine. Perhaps some questions can be asked, or at least some pestering accomplished. :P ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:26:51 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Is In Nomine In Trouble At 4:43 PM -0400 8/18/98, Matthew D. Gandy wrote: >Emily Dresner wrote: > On a side note, I seem to remember that some articles were at least >*supposed* to be farmed out for review, GURPS articles to line editor Sean >Punch, IN articles to our own Archangel Beth, etc. Can Beth confirm or deny >this, or possibly shed a little light on this mystery? I've gotten yea/nay saying on some IN articles, but I don't get to say *when* they go up. (If I don't peeeeeer at them and say, "No.") - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:11:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Pee Kitty Subject: Re: IN> Is In Nomine In Trouble On Tue, 18 Aug 1998, Emily Dresner wrote: > > Well, I was hoping the article I submitted would pay for a subscription, > > but, well, I haven't heard anything about it... > > I think that Pyramid submissions is much like submitting into the black > hole of Calcutta. I know about staff turnovers and all that other good > stuff, but it would be nice to get a 'we received it' form mail or > SOMETHING. I sent off in hrm, June, I think, and haven't heard anything, > period. You'd think they could at least set up an automatic form response at the very list..."Thank you for your submission - it has been received." - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! ::: Thinking about a Tampa Bay Devival in the future - email me! ::: Or go to http://www.cris.com/~pkitty (hell, go there anyways!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 98 17:17 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Is In Nomine In Trouble > On a side note, I seem to remember that some articles were at least >*supposed* to be farmed out for review, GURPS articles to line editor Sean >Punch, IN articles to our own Archangel Beth, etc. Can Beth confirm or deny >this, or possibly shed a little light on this mystery? I know she's seen at least *some* IN articles destined for Pyramid, though I don't know if all of them have been sent past her. There certainly hasn't been much IN material there for a couple months. What there has been has all been by Alain. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 98 17:59 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: IN> Pyramid submissions >You'd think they could at least set up an automatic form response at the >very list..."Thank you for your submission - it has been received." I believe there's no separate email address for submissions -- they use the general "mail to Pyramid magazine" address, so it's a little hard to set up an autoresponder. And it's not clear if a separate email account would be beneficial -- at least this way the Pyramid editor has to at least look at the thing briefly; if it went directly to a "slushpile" account, it might get looked at even *less* frequently.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 15:36:50 PDT From: "Peter Martin" Subject: IN> Tsarien's dissonance conditions It is Dissonant for a Servitor of Victory to allow a contest or fight he participates in to end without a winner. Ties must be broken, stalemates replayed, until someone wins. It is Dissonant for a Servitor of Victory to Forfeit a contest; regardless of reason or opponent; servitors of Victory play to win. Finally, it is Dissonant to cheat to obtain victory. - --------------- Okay, I can see your point. This looks to be a better way of handling Tsarien's dissonance than what I had. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 17:03:16 -0700 (PDT) From: -=|horsefly|=- Subject: IN> real life Lilim i know it's trite to identify real-world people as a particular Band or Chior, but something's sitting on my chest aching for me to tell someone for which the story will have (pardon the pun) resonance. besides which, this isn't a famous person, i'm leaving out names, and it's more like an out of game, "no kidding, you had to be there" situations. with that prelude, let me say that i was hitchhiking home yesterday with something in mind of the post someone here had made a few days previous about Lilim picking up hitchhikers and a story that i might write based on that, just on account of my mode of travel. things were going slow and i was about half-way home when a car slowed down going down the hill and around the curve of the road, so i ran to catch up. low and behold i recognize the driver vaguely from high school, and he's saying how he knows me, calls me by name to prove his point, and offers me a ride if i can tell him his name. (as a side note, NEVER play Rumplestiltskin with someone whom you've not seen in at least five years when the relationship to the player is tenuous .) well, i was stumped and admitted as much, making to walk off, but he and his passenger stopped me, inviting me to get in anyway, and lazy, foolish me, i oblidged.... the driver started talking about high school and mentioning names i haven't heard in years--so long the faces don't even register in my mind's eye--and i'm wracking my brain to come up with a context for how i know this bloke. i told him i remembered his face, and he seemed pleased by that, saying as much, "I don't care if you can't remember my name, if you can remember my face." the passenger in the front of the car was mostly silent, but he eyed me occationally, and i felt like i was *definitely* in the wrong place at the wrong time, taking favors from the Wrong People. so i sat in the back, mumbling affirmatives but generally keeping silent, trying to keep from making eye-contact with my fellow passenger. by the time he stopped, the driver had my name, he knew where i attend school, i admitted where i work, and as the front-seat passenger opened the door to pull back the seat and let me out, the driver told me two names; told me to remember them. "And if they come around looking for you," the driver said, looking at me intensely, "remember that you owe me." i was able to keep from gaping, but as i got out, i acknowledged his assersion, thanked him again, and *quickly* got on my way home headed in the opposite direction up the road, feeling a very BAAAAAAD sense of obligation sink into me. if there's anything i can say to make this on-topic, it's that i hope my narrative above can give some illustration to what Lilim are capable of (much worse, i'm sure, and this is just the favors they do!), and the feeling of the Geas-hook as it cuts in and affixes itself to the victim. God help me, i pray they never call this favor in . -=|horsefly|=- "Back off, preacher, I don't care if it's Sunday. I ain't no angel, but I never felt better!" --FREEDOM, Alice Cooper ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 19:00:43 -0500 From: Shadowstar Subject: IN> More, Stupid (Balseraph) Lilim Tricks Can a Balseraph, using the Band Attunement of Kronos, duplicate a Bright Lilim's Resonance? *teeheehee* Considering that Lilim aren't really Angels, and aren't really Demons -- Really daughters of Lilith -- I'd say not really. Though it would be quite evil... Until Lilith found out about it. - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centuryinter.net # Balseraph Marquis of Fate, Demon of Delusions of Granduer ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 23:12:33 EDT From: CaelinR@aol.com Subject: IN> The Conservation of Essence (My Eli Theory) I happen to be a member of that significant faction of players who believe that Eli, regardless of how his actions appear, most likely has a very legittimate reason for doing what he's doing. Afterall, leave it to the Archangel of Creation to find a creative way to promote his word. This is kinda complicated, but I think it works: My theory rests on the essence angels get every day at dawn. That essence could either be freshly minted, true, or it could be drawn directly from the symphony. If it is drawn directly from the symphony, then the question is what part of the symphony is it drawn from? Possibly, it could be free-floating ambient essence, or it could come out of the word the angel is linked to. For wordless servitor angels, that would be the word they serve (afterall, we know they are linked to their Superior's word to at least some degree- through their dissonnance conditions). Rites probably work a little differently- they probably promote a little bir of the symphony, creating a little more essence, some of which is granted to the performer of the rite. So, let's say that all that essence Eli's servitors get at dawn is being torn out of creation every morning. They do a lot of good work, and all, but is the good they're doing controlling creation (and how can creation truly be controlled?) helping more than the essence they're tearing out of it? Eli does some numbers, and decides to fob his servitors off on other superiors, where they will A) do more good for the symphony working for something that's easier to promote. B) Stop sucking essence out of Creation, and C) Keep doing his rites, further creating more essence for Creation. So, the net result is, that while the angels of creation aren't actively encouraging humans to create (which never needed too much doing in the first place- it's human nature, after all), they're pumping a lot of essence into Creation, and taking very little out. Consequently, with more essence in it, the word of Creation becomes more powerful, and begins to manifest this strengthening corporeally, "over-running everything else in creation," as the core book says. Well, it was just an idea, anyhow. -ALD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 00:09:26 -0400 From: Matthew Stein Subject: Re: IN> The Conservation of Essence (My Eli Theory) (I'm new to In Nomine, so please excuse me - and tell me - if this is completely unrealistic.) > My theory rests on the essence angels get every day at dawn. That essence >could either be freshly minted, true, or it could be drawn directly from the >symphony. If it is drawn directly from the symphony, then the question is what >part of the symphony is it drawn from? Isn't it possible to be both? I think some book - I forget which, I think the Angelic Players Guide but maybe the core book - says that when an Angel dies (and I mean, dies, not the "death of a vessel" schtick), his or her Forces break into a single Force which returns to the Symphony. Isn't it possible that Essence, when spent, returns to the Symphony and then is re-charged for the Angel's use. Afterall, there is a limit on how much Essence an Angel can have at any given time, the total amount of his Forces, right? Now, is it possible that in the Symphony, an Angel has two marks in it: his Forces and his Essence, the Forces are his and he trades the Essence back and forth - which is why it creates a disturbance when it is spent, since the Symphony is gaining Essence. (I tend to believe that God is the Symphony. After all, does the Bible not say that God says that he was, is, and will be? If that's true, and given how God shows himself in his name and actions - as a breath of wind (see: God and Moses, several times; the Hebrew pronounciation of God's name (YHWH or HHWH, try prouncing that; it's a breath of air); the Hebrew for the verb "to be" (l'hee-yot; the present tense is "hoveh," a modification of God's name) - then what is more permanent than the Symphony? Surely the Earth is not, as it will be destroyed in the Apocalpse; the War? No, that will end. But what existed prior to Yves? Nothing except for the Symphony, which had God. But back to my point....) If my earlier points are granted then: God is the Symphony and Angel's have their used Essence stored in the Symphony (or in God), and God just created the world out of nothing (translation: he used part of the Symphony, of himself), then could it be possible that Eli is really the Archangel of [the] Symphony, or a representitive of God himself? Actually, this idea interests me - maybe Eli *is* an incarnation of God, and God is slowly removing his Eli-incarnation from the Angels, since he sees it as less important. (Of course this brings up questions about the Infallible Plan, but God must have a reason, right? Or he wouldn't have let Lucifer Fall, right? But that's seriously off-topic.) Anyway, I like the rest of your idea. It seems workable. If there are any comments about it, let me know. // Matt - ---===--- "The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it." - -- John Gilmore ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 22:54:39 PDT From: "David Streeter" Subject: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #922 >> Well, I was hoping the article I submitted would pay for a >subscription, >> but, well, I haven't heard anything about it... > >Several people (including myself, after being editted by Beth) have >submitted articles, and almost NO ONE has heard anything back yet. >Or if >they have, we're gonna go over to their house and steal their stuff. > >I think that Pyramid submissions is much like submitting into the >black >hole of Calcutta. I know about staff turnovers and all that other >good >stuff, but it would be nice to get a 'we received it' form mail or >SOMETHING. I sent off in hrm, June, I think, and haven't heard >anything, >period. > >- - Em I submitted a Champions article to Pyramid and received a knock-back about two months later. Admittedly, I put a bit saying "if you reject it, please send a brief reason why" in the covering note. I thought that two months was a reasonable response time. I'd suggest putting the topic or article title in the subject. "Submission to Pyramid magazine" is unlikely to spark any interest from Mr Haring. Of course, if you could get BETH to submit it for you, it might stand a better chance of being read, too. SurturZ Habbalite of Factions, Angel of Constructive Criticism sowing discord as usual ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 13:22:48 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> More, Stupid (Balseraph) Lilim Tricks Shadowstar wrote: > > Can a Balseraph, using the Band Attunement of Kronos, duplicate a Bright > Lilim's Resonance? *teeheehee* > > Considering that Lilim aren't really Angels, and aren't really Demons -- > Really daughters of Lilith -- I'd say not really. Though it would be quite > evil... Until Lilith found out about it. Even Kronos still hasn't figured out the trick behind the Lilim Resonance. Several Balseraphs have tried, I'm sure, but no one ever talks about what happened there. ;) [Simple canon answer: no] - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)380-4629 MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:45:21 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: IN> Stonehenge (was Sphinx again ) >>As for stonehenge, well, I'd like to go into more detail... > > >Hey, go for it! ;) Sure thing :) Stonehenge is just one of many megalithic sites in the British Isles. There is Avebury Henge (also in Wiltshire) 'Long Meg and Her Daughters' (Cumbria) The Rollright Stones (Oxfordshire) The Longstone (Dartmoor) and many more. Stonehenge attracts particular attention due to the precision of its architecture and its extended use throughout history. There are of course many legends concerning stonehenge, just as there are many theories as to what its actual purpose was, astronomical observatory; solar temple; e.t. monument etc. The lack of conclusive evidence one way or another means you could go one of several ways with this in IN. To start with, it is generally believed that the inner circle of stones (bluestones; spotted dolerite) were transported from the Prescelly Mountains in Pembrokeshire south-west Wales. How they were transported though is not known. One legend holds that they were transported via the magic of Merlin from Ireland, and that they had been brought to Ireland itself by giants... Well, Merlin may have come along a little later on the scene (more on that shortly), but the giants? Seems to indicate Watcher involvement to me. I like the idea that the Watchers may have been sharing some of AA David's knowledge of geomancy with humans and helped them construct a site that allowed men to 'key in' to the cosmos (e.g. Stonehenge might grant the use of David's *Geomancy* attunement (FotM) to anybody there at dawn). It probably became a tether at this point. The watchers Araquiel (taught signs of the earth); Kokabel (science of constellations); Sariel (course of the moon); and Shamshiel (signs of the sun) may all have worked on the project, and hey, they probably helped move the stones as well. ;) As for the Merlin angle, I seem to remember reading somewhere that he may have been a child of the Grigori (?). So it could be that he was at some stage researching 'racial memories', or somesuch, about the site in order to reactivate it's essence generating capabilities for himself? (Attuning to a feng shui site in other words, although I doubt that he had 'good' kung fu. :)) There is also some legend that the upright stones are themselves transformed giants (although I can't remember much about that story) which brings us nicely back to Grigori and Stone again. Maybe the old seneschal (Araquiel?) was 'Cold Touched' (he's what is called the 'heelstone' now) by David when the watchers were outcast? Folklore about stonehenge holds that the stones there (like many other megaliths) have 'healing' capabilities. This was first recorded in the 12th century A.D. by Geoffrey of Monmouth. More recently, in 1978, Paul Devereaux's 'Dragon Project' demonstrated that one of the Rollright stones in Oxfordshire exhibited a 'high magnetic field'. Interestingly, people had been coming to the site for centuries in the belief that it could mend their broken bones, and modern therapy has revealed that electromagnetism _does_ accelerate the healing process in fractures. So, being sites of geomantic energy, megaliths may naturally have numerous special rites or attunements of Stone associated with them and are potentially available if you know how to activate them. Is stonehenge still a tether? I'd say probably not. But it may still grant the Geomancy attunement, or something similar, and is no doubt one of those sites just asking to be rediscovered (FotM pg.11). perhaps by re-awakening its seneschal. And for a take on what may well be a Nephilim lurking beneath an ancient stone read 'Rawhead Rex' by Clive Barker (read it, don't bother with the video). One year I may just try to get down to stonehenge for the summer solstice, seeing as its actually my birthday as well... Who knows, I may just get to activate that dormant sixth force. O;) - -- Julian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 14:05:28 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Stonehenge (was Sphinx again ) Julian Breen wrote: > There are of course many legends concerning stonehenge, just as there > are many theories as to what its actual purpose was, astronomical > observatory; solar temple; e.t. monument etc. These theories are not necessarily mutually exclusive. That is, if you worship the sun and moon, the same place may well be an astronomical observatory AND a solar temple. > As for the Merlin angle, I seem to remember reading somewhere that he > may have been a child of the Grigori (?). Yes, in some tellings, Merlin's father is a demon, even Lucifer himself. I don't think any of the major tellings mention Grigori, but that's very reasonable for IN, and for any confluence of folklore, since siring hybrids is what that choir is mainly known for. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 13:22:35 -0500 From: Uncle Wolf Subject: Re: IN> Stonehenge (was Sphinx again ) Julian Breen wrote: > > >>As for stonehenge, well, I'd like to go into more detail... > > > > > >Hey, go for it! ;) > > Sure thing :) > [Snip!] > More recently, in 1978, Paul Devereaux's 'Dragon Project' demonstrated > that one of the Rollright stones in Oxfordshire exhibited a 'high > magnetic field'. Interestingly, people had been coming to the site for > centuries in the belief that it could mend their broken bones, and > modern therapy has revealed that electromagnetism _does_ accelerate the > healing process in fractures. This just begs to be read as a dormant Corp. Song of Healing that can be activated by humans willing to spend their essence to access the power within the stone [Stone?]. Probably be best to make it a Talisman of Stone and not a Tether, 'cause if every 'lith is a Tether of Stone, or even every third 'lith, then all of England and Brittany together compose one Very Large Array type Tether of Stone and no demon could hope to enter the area, at all!!! Good bye game in that area. [Mind's eye picture of a demon inadvertently entering the Array and frying in one round, or else being revealed for who and what he is and facing a pair of Malakim of Stone with Cold Touch and all their oaths, defending the Tether of their AA.] tom timberlake, cadre Cherub of Heaven ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 14:34:17 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Stonehenge (was Sphinx again ) Uncle Wolf wrote: > Probably be best to make it a Talisman of Stone and not a Tether, > 'cause if every 'lith is a Tether of Stone, or even every third > 'lith, then all of England and Brittany together compose one Very > Large Array type Tether of Stone and no demon could hope to enter > the area, at all!!! On the other hand, that the British Isles be liberally provided with *some* kind of Tethers -- maybe mainly Ethereal ones -- seems very right and proper to me. I mean, from an American point of view, the place appears to be unusually awash in ectoplasm of various flavors. So perhaps not all stone megaliths are Tethers of Stone, despite their construction material, but maybe a fair number are Tethers to someone or other. Not to mention sundry barrows, earthworks, and giant rude images on hillsides. Or at least maybe they *used* to be Tethers. Hm. Does a Tether, especially an Ethereal Tether, necessarily go down all at once? Perhaps some of these places are creaky, unreliable, malfunctioning, almost-but-not-quite-destroyed, ruined Tethers. I think the idea of abandonned or "haunted" Tethers has possibilities. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 98 14:58 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #922 >I'd suggest putting the topic or article title in the subject. >"Submission to Pyramid magazine" is unlikely to spark any interest from >Mr Haring. I don't really know if this will help, I'd suggest something like "Submission [In Nomine]: " as a Subject: line. Of course, S. John Ross seems to be the new Pyramid editor, according to the new staff list, so things may (a) be in some turmoil right now and (b) hopefully improve.... >Of course, if you could get BETH to submit it for you, it might stand a >better chance of being read, too. Well, *she* might read it, but she's got articles in to Pyramid that haven't surfaced yet, either. So I'm not sure this is a useful tactic. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 98 15:01 EDT From: Walter Milliken <milliken@BBN.COM> Subject: Re: IN> Stonehenge (was Sphinx again ) >Or at least maybe they *used* to be Tethers. Hm. Does a Tether, >especially an Ethereal Tether, necessarily go down all at once? >Perhaps some of these places are creaky, unreliable, malfunctioning, >almost-but-not-quite-destroyed, ruined Tethers. I believe this is plausible, given the current Tether proto-canon, especially if the sites are still remembered as sacred places, even if there is no active worship there. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:29:30 +0100 From: Jo Hart <jhart@btinternet.com> Subject: Re: IN> Stonehenge (was Sphinx again ) At 15:01 19/08/98 EDT, you wrote: >>Or at least maybe they *used* to be Tethers. Hm. Does a Tether, >>especially an Ethereal Tether, necessarily go down all at once? >>Perhaps some of these places are creaky, unreliable, malfunctioning, >>almost-but-not-quite-destroyed, ruined Tethers. > >I believe this is plausible, given the current Tether proto-canon, >especially if the sites are still remembered as sacred places, even if >there is no active worship there. > I think it would be kind of neat if tethers could have personalities, or even hearts... once they have been 'awakened' so even after the actual link and seneschal were gone, the location itself might be able to 'remember'. jo (and _great_ job on the Stonehenge ideas, Jules! I like the idea of the Grigori being turned to stone. Maybe they begged for that, to be allowed to watch forever rather than being outcast...) ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #923 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.