From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Aug 20 16:23:11 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA06863 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:23:10 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id QAA14401 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:11:12 -0500 Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:11:12 -0500 Message-Id: <199808202111.QAA14401@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #924 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, August 20 1998 Volume 01 : Number 924 In this digest: Re: IN> Stonehenge (was Sphinx again ) Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #922 Re: IN> More, Stupid (Balseraph) Lilim Tricks Re: IN> Stonehenge (was Sphinx again ) Re: IN> Stonehenge (was Sphinx again ) IN> Submitting to Pyramid Re: IN> Stonehenge (was Sphinx again ) Re: IN> Little Girl Lost (plot seed) Re: IN> Stonehenge (was Sphinx again ) IN> Vatican's web page - URL please? IN> Superheroes and In Nomine Re: IN> Vatican's web page - URL please? Re: IN> Fall of the Malakim Nitpicks. [Here there be Spoilers!] Re: IN> Stonehenge (was Sphinx again ) Re: IN> Vatican's web page - URL please? IN> Conspiracies Re: IN> Conspiracies Re: IN> Conspiracies Expanded Angelic Resonances (was Re: IN> More FotM grumbles) IN> Tsarien's Dissonance Re: IN> INC IN> Humans and Fate before the Fall Re: IN> Humans and Fate before the Fall Re: IN> Superheroes and In Nomine Re: IN> INC Re: IN> Submitting to Pyramid Re: IN> Little Girl Lost (plot seed) IN> Re: Expanded Angelic Resonances Re: IN> Little Girl Lost (plot seed) Re: IN> Little Girl Lost (plot seed) Re: IN> Humans and Fate before the Fall ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:16:21 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: "Emily K. Dresner" Subject: Re: IN> Stonehenge (was Sphinx again ) > >Or at least maybe they *used* to be Tethers. Hm. Does a Tether, > >especially an Ethereal Tether, necessarily go down all at once? > >Perhaps some of these places are creaky, unreliable, malfunctioning, > >almost-but-not-quite-destroyed, ruined Tethers. > > I believe this is plausible, given the current Tether proto-canon, > especially if the sites are still remembered as sacred places, even if > there is no active worship there. [I finally say something on the subject of tethers.] Unless the tether is destroyed, there is no reason for the tether to go away at once. As long as there are small pockets of believers happily giving up their essence and believing that the place is a holy spot, then it will continue to fuel the tether and the ethereal. If all belief has dissipated and the worship is gone, then the tethers try up and disappear. I like this take on things because it leads to some very interesting seeds involving humans, and more importantly the one thing that In Nomine really needs - Secret Societies. Ethereals NEED secret societies to keep their non-mainstream belief alive and happy in a 20th century world. And once you get to secret societies, you get to conspiracies and paranoia and hours of fun for the whole family. An example, an example... where can I find a rough example... Ah! My bookshelf! So take the well-known archeological site of Tel El-Armana, which contains the foundations of the palace of Akhenaten, the main center street through what was once a town dedicated to artisans and craftsmen, and a Temple to the Aten. (The Tel means 'dead'.) This site is about as dead as your ever going to get for a tether site to the Aten, if you chose it as such. Assume maybe that the GM owns a ridiculously sized collection of Egyptology books, and owns a few that would be considered in Nephilim RPG as "bad books", in particular a very rare and pretty bizarre book called "Egyptian Belief and Modern Thought" by James Bonwick (c. 1956). This book is only good to collectors because it's a really screwy tome with lots of very incorrect information, so it's perfect for In Nomine. But it advocates the belief in the Aten in conjunction to some Christian symbology in new and bizarre ways. So the GM takes this book, reads the weird chapter on the "Egyptian Messiah" and decides to build a seed out of it. He - or maybe she in this weird universe - decides that the tether in the temple to the Aten is not really dead, but all this time has just been very very weak and was transported physically (the statuary and altar and the stuff that really makes a tether) to a safer site out of the eyes of the curious. (S)He places the headquarters of a secret society (Il-Saudiq El-Aten? 'Friends of Aten') made of humans and maybe driven by the Ethereal in one of the small fellahin villages around the archeological site near the Nile. So now it's easy to build the rest of the seed. It's a very weak tether that was dying over millenia until the advent of nosy archeologists who pushed pictures of Akhenaten and Nephertiti into common culture. And now with all the tourists and the museums and the books and the shows on the History channel, a few humans are making this Akhenaton-Jesus/Aten-Jehovah connection, and starting to - with a little prodding and coaching - believe it. Most of these people are archeologists, historians, linguists, that sort of thing, mostly people with money, collectors, and people of some influence. The tether is slowly getting some power. The secret society, being 3200 years old, is of course very wealthy, and now has a few prominent human society members. So maybe they're in contact with some demons of Media (who are very new compared to them) and there is some big conspiracy to make a new "Aten Messiah" for the Millenia, to help out Nybbas and to fuel the tether again, filling the ethereal with nice happy essence, making a Nybbas Media spectacle, and leading to all sorts of hilarity. *wave hands* Huzzah, instant few sessions of entertaining Angelic/Demonic play of following around a human secret society and squishing them before the ethereal fully awakes and the demons have waaay too much fun at everyone's expense. If tethers just up and died - and many many of them likely do, as is the nature of esoteric human belief - you'd lose out on too many goofy game seeds. And that's no fun. Never close off a perfectly good path with rules, I say. That, and human belief takes an enormous amount of time to die sometimes. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:22:39 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #922 At 10:54 PM -0700 8/18/98, David Streeter wrote: >Of course, if you could get BETH to submit it for you, it might stand a >better chance of being read, too. Actually, considering that Scott Haring has just been replaced by S. John Ross as Pyramid Editor, things are likely to be A Mess. But S. John has said that he has the whole slushpile and nothing has been lost. (And I have little control over what does and doesn't get read, when. I'm in NH, the Pyramid editor is in Tx. 2000 miles...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:17:57 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> More, Stupid (Balseraph) Lilim Tricks At 7:00 PM -0500 8/18/98, Shadowstar wrote: > Can a Balseraph, using the Band Attunement of Kronos, duplicate a Bright >Lilim's Resonance? *teeheehee* This is one of those things that only the GM is going to know. And the GM should decide, and then smile evilly whenever the question comes up. (Which I agree with is left as an exercise for the reader. Fnord.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 00:20:09 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> Stonehenge (was Sphinx again ) Earl wrote: >> As for the Merlin angle, I seem to remember reading somewhere that he >> may have been a child of the Grigori (?). > >Yes, in some tellings, Merlin's father is a demon, even Lucifer >himself. I don't think any of the major tellings mention Grigori, >but that's very reasonable for IN, and for any confluence of folklore, >since siring hybrids is what that choir is mainly known for. > >Earl > I'd read that he was the son of an incubus. I think that I'd picked up the idea of Merlin as a child of the Grigori from someone on these lists by the way, not (I agree) as a mainstream telling. Who that person was, if in fact I remember correctly anyway, escapes me. - -- Julian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 00:06:02 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> Stonehenge (was Sphinx again ) *I* wrote: >To start with, it is generally believed that the inner circle of stones >(bluestones; spotted dolerite) were transported from the Prescelly >Mountains in Pembrokeshire south-west Wales. How they were transported >though is not known. >One legend holds that they were transported via the magic of Merlin from >Ireland, and that they had been brought to Ireland itself by giants... > Ah. Sorry folks, but I missed a couple of words here. That should have read '...brought to Ireland _from Africa_ by giants...'. That was a big omission, because thats how I arrived at Grigori. It fits in with stories of the migration of the watchers through Africa following the destruction of Atlantis. Note that on page 106 of the core book it says (about the Children of the Grigori) that,'Most believe themselves to be remnants of an ancient race - refugees from the mythical sunken continent of Atlantis, for example. There is a grain of truth to this.' - -- Julian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:10:03 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Submitting to Pyramid >>>Of course, if you could get BETH to submit it for you, it might stand a better chance of being read, too.<<< Well, if Beth wants to do that, more power to her, but I don't think it's either fair or considerate to her to start using her as the person to whom you send In Nomine submissions as a way of trying to make an end run around the normal submissions procedure. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:32:42 -0400 From: Matthew Stein Subject: Re: IN> Stonehenge (was Sphinx again ) > As for the Merlin angle, I seem to remember reading somewhere that he >> may have been a child of the Grigori (?). > >Merlin's father is a demon, even Lucifer >himself. > I don't think any of the major tellings mention Grigori ... and for any >confluence of folklore, since siring hybrids is what that choir is mainly >known for. > > I'd read that he was the son of an incubus. I think that I'd >picked up the idea of Merlin as a child of the Grigori from someone on >these lists by the way, not (I agree) as a mainstream telling. I read an interesting series of books (and yes, this *is* on-topic) by Simon Hawke (okay, fine, they were total pulp, but so?), and in it, Hawke presents an interesting hypothesis. He suggests that there was a race that predated humanity, which he called the Old Ones (which, in IN, could be Angels - before the Fall, you understand). He explains a break between the good Old Ones ("One Ones on the Council of White") and the bad Old Ones ("Dark Ones") - the Old Ones want to preserve humanity, and Dark Ones see them as a source for power for their necromantic spells. While IN doesn't have anything quite like that, it does seem to be an interesting source, especially given how Lucifer is portrayed around Eden. What Hawke says - and here's where what I say makes sense - is that Merlin was a cross-bread between the last surviving member of the Council of White (someone pretty damn powerful) and a human (the same, in Hawke's world, for Morgan Le Fay and her sisters, as well as Modred). Maybe it might be interesting to have Merlin and his half-sisters and nephew being decended from a very powerful Angel (Archangel, perhaps). Eli, perhaps, or one of his more powerful servants. Dunno, but it might be fun to play like that sometime.... // Matt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:38:56 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> Little Girl Lost (plot seed) Nice plot idea... some minor quibbles: Angels don't need to sleep. This makes it more difficult to get the baby away without the Angels noticing, but I'm sure a resourceful Demon can come up with something. Killing the vessel of the child won't destroy it... but getting put through Trauma isn't a very nice experience either. All in all a very good seed, IMO! Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! May you have the knowledge of a sage, and the wisdom of a child. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:03:45 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Stonehenge (was Sphinx again ) On Wed, Aug 19, 1998 at 04:16:21PM -0400, Emily K. Dresner wrote: > So take the well-known archeological site of Tel El-Armana, which > contains the foundations of the palace of Akhenaten, the main center > street through what was once a town dedicated to artisans and craftsmen, > and a Temple to the Aten. (The Tel means 'dead'.) This site is about as > dead as your ever going to get for a tether site to the Aten, if you chose > it as such. > Minor nitpick, but isn't Tel also the Arabic for hill? Usually, when I see a place name with Tel in it, I assume that the Tel merely stands for a hill. I know I have no business nitpicking languages I don't either speak or read, but I can't help it. Other than that, it sounded nice, though I personally recommend Von Daeniken for screwy conspiracy theories. My favourite are the Piri Reis maps. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Yet it cannot be called talent to slay fellow-citizens, to deceive friends, to be without faith, without mercy, without religion; such methods may gain empire, but not glory." Machiavelli, the Prince. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 03:16:29 PDT From: "David Streeter" Subject: IN> Vatican's web page - URL please? In Nomine news mentions the Vatican's website - does anyone have the URL? SurturZ Dissonant Elohite of Stone, Angel of the Illuminati ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 03:54:24 PDT From: "David Streeter" Subject: IN> Superheroes and In Nomine In Nomine Campaign variant: October 12, 1940: Servitors of Michael start openly battling Nazi troops on the side of the British army, stalling the Infernally inspired Operation Sea Lion (planned invasion of England). Existence of Celestial entities irrevocably revealed to the human race. Within two years, all earth-bound celestial agents are wearing spandex. SurturZ Dissonant Elohite of Stone, Angel of the Illuminati ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:05:31 +0100 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Vatican's web page - URL please? At 03:16 20/08/98 PDT, you wrote: >In Nomine news mentions the Vatican's website - does anyone have the >URL? > http://www.vatican.va/ (But no catchy jingles from Vatican Radio, or glow-in-the-dark plastic holy water fonts that you can stick on your wall, I'm afraid) jo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:33:28 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Fall of the Malakim Nitpicks. [Here there be Spoilers!] On Wed, Aug 12, 1998 at 11:18:43PM -0700, David Streeter wrote: > That's not to say that a Canon term for a Fallen Malakite shouldn't be > established, however - you can have names for things that don't exist! > > Since a Malakite's resonance is for Honor, I suspect a Black Malakite's > resonance would be for Dishonor - or Humiliation. "Bal-Malakim, The > Humiliators?" > If I ever inflict Fallen Malakim on my players, it'll be in the same capacity as Bright Lilim, they'll have the same resonance and dissonance as ever, but will look different and get different jobs. I kind of like the razored, blood-dripping wings idea, myself. They'll be called, surprisingly, Dark Malakim. Becoming Dark should require weeks/months/years of intensive preparation in a cell with the attention of multiple Habbalah and Balseraphs, and finally a Demon Prince. In other words, the only reason to do it is to get a template from which you can build others. (In general, I think that free will is not an absolute, just as it isn't in real life. Conditioning, torture, and so forth can mess with heads rather thoroughly.) Obviously, since their Celestial forms would be instantly recognisable, any Dark Malakim who exist are working Earthside (or being experimented upon in highly secret labs), in missions which require subtlety and the kind of information gathering which can be most easily done by Malakim. In all probability, they are reserved, not for work against the Host, but against other Princes, who are less well equipped to discover them. The Archangels, and some angels with direct knowledge of events, would know about Malakim who disappeared, but keep things quiet in order to prevent disturbance to morale. Other angels who note guys who seem to do stuff like Malakim but work for Hell are reminded of Kronos' Bal-Malakim. Creeping paranoia is fun. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Yet it cannot be called talent to slay fellow-citizens, to deceive friends, to be without faith, without mercy, without religion; such methods may gain empire, but not glory." Machiavelli, the Prince. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 07:59:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Stonehenge (was Sphinx again ) > Minor nitpick, but isn't Tel also the Arabic for hill? Usually, when I see > a place name with Tel in it, I assume that the Tel merely stands for a > hill. I know I have no business nitpicking languages I don't either speak > or read, but I can't help it. Yes, but in this case it definitely, without a doubt, means dead. That, and El-Armana isn't on a hill. :) > Other than that, it sounded nice, though I personally recommend Von > Daeniken for screwy conspiracy theories. My favourite are the Piri Reis > maps. Me too that way, and the guys who wrote THE HIRAM KEY are good for some laughs as well. If you're going to go whole hog into silly conspiracy theories about aliens and Atlantis and the size of the Great Pyramid, then reading CHARIOTS OF THE GODS is good inspirational reading. - - Em Current Quote: "I redeemed, not gave up my keen sense of fashion." - Daimon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:02:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Vatican's web page - URL please? > In Nomine news mentions the Vatican's website - does anyone have the > URL? > htttp://www.vatican.va/ - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:26:18 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: IN> Conspiracies If you want a -lot- of information on conspiracies that modern-day people actually believe in, check out "Everything is Under Control" by Robert Anton Wilson. It's a kind of encyclopaedia over conspiracies - JFK, UFO:s, Freemasons, Hollow Earth theories, Aleister Crowley and so on. Very entertaining, and it can give you a lot of weird ideas. Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! May you have the knowledge of a sage, and the wisdom of a child. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:45:31 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Conspiracies Anders Gabrielsson wrote: > If you want a -lot- of information on conspiracies that modern-day > people actually believe in, check out "Everything is Under Control" > by Robert Anton Wilson. And do not neglect GURPS Illuminati, which also has lots of data on really-believed-in conspiracies, plus directions on role-playing them (and on integrating them into this funky card-game put out by some company in Texas). And is very, very funny. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:00:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> Conspiracies > If you want a -lot- of information on conspiracies that modern-day people > actually believe in, check out "Everything is Under Control" by Robert > Anton Wilson. It's a kind of encyclopaedia over conspiracies - JFK, UFO:s, > Freemasons, Hollow Earth theories, Aleister Crowley and so on. Very > entertaining, and it can give you a lot of weird ideas. Hell, just read everything by Robert Anton Wilson - ILLUMINATI! For a start. You really don't need your brain. :) Heck, if you're too lazy to read books, everyone should go hit http://www.disinfo.com/. It is, by far, one of the most entertaining sites on the net. Go hit their COUNTERCULTURE area. You get everything from the WORLD OF THE MAYA to UFOs to just flat out CONSPIRACY THEORY. Anything that has links to the "Secret History of the United States" has got to be all good. I'm even on their mailing list. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:43:12 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: Expanded Angelic Resonances (was Re: IN> More FotM grumbles) Elizabeth wrote, on Thu 13 August: > >I just errata'ed the last sentence of p. 117, if anyone cares. (And, >to rant and rave, APG passed without any Line Editor whatsoever. My >best tweaks were to remove some of the check-digit tables. If I'd been >truly in the saddle, the APG would have been.... much different.) > Have you your own write-ups for expanded resonance use for various angelic choirs? Is that something that you can post here, or would you need permission? What with recent conversation about Lilim not neccessarily being able to 'Need-read' but able to geas (and vice-versa for Brights) I just looked at the advanced Mercurian table (the -2 one) and thought 'Bright Lilim'. Still haven't made up my mind on whether or not to adopt that myself, seeing as geases aren't intrinsically evil, as Walter (and the books) point out. But a neccessity to seduce a victim just sounds...'right' I guess. - -- Julian jules@bigjules.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 10:51:59 -0500 From: "Brent DeHut" Subject: IN> Tsarien's Dissonance >It is Dissonant for a Servitor of Victory to allow a contest or fight he >participates in to end without a winner. Ties must be broken, stalemates >replayed, until someone wins. It is Dissonant for a Servitor of Victory >to >Forfeit a contest; regardless of reason or opponent; servitors of >Victory >play to win. Finally, it is Dissonant to cheat to obtain victory. > >- --------------- > >Okay, I can see your point. This looks to be a better way of handling >Tsarien's dissonance than what I had. One possible addendum: It is dissonant to intentionally lose a contest. - -Brent ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:45:39 -0400 From: neel@cswv.com (Neel Krishnaswami) Subject: Re: IN> INC Walter Milliken wrote: > >Em wrote: > >[Comment about new new INC pages] > >The new page is definitely an improvement on the old, though I think the >graphic appearance may be a little generic (compared to the really old >one, with all the flaming feathers on it). Perhaps you could get a >reduced version of the flaming feather to put in at the left or right >end of the headings -- one that was essentially one character high? Not >sure how that would look, but I think it needs a little something -- >it's a bit spartan-looking after the main SJG IN pages. The new new page is a major win in terms of how easy it is to navigate and how easy it is to read. I don't think it needs any more graphics than it has, because it is a much cleaner and readable look than the official SJG pages. I really dislike the official pages' practice of using GIFs as headers, since it is dark red text in a complex font on a black background. This is totally unreadable on my monitor. Em's design works much better -- I can read it all easily. >The one major quibble I have with it is that some of the headings look >like links: "What's New...", "New Articles..." and "About In Nomine..." >all look like links, even though they're in a different color, >especially after coming in from the main SJG IN pages, where links are >sort of orangish-red. I suggest at least getting rid of the underline. >Better might be to set them up with the red inverse bar format you use >in other areas of the page. I agree with you here, and I see a related (but trivially fixed) problem: visited links are the same color as the regular body text. This should be fixed. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:05:24 -0700 From: Dale Friesen Subject: IN> Humans and Fate before the Fall What happened to humans who succumbed to their Fates before Hell existed? My guess is that they just reincarnated. Any opinions expressed are mine and not necessarily the book store's. Dale Friesen Sysadmin Bolen Books, Inc Victoria, BC Canada dfriesen@amtsgi.bc.ca http://www.bolen.bc.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:15:22 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Humans and Fate before the Fall Dale Friesen wrote: > What happened to humans who succumbed to their Fates before > Hell existed? My guess is that they just reincarnated. Probably. Other options: their Forces dispersed, or they became Dream Wraiths (I think it was called) and haunted the Marches. Such an afterlife might explain the Greek Hades, Hebrew Sheol, or Norse Hel -- mostly dreary places of ghostly existence without notable reward or punishment. Dream Wraiths are supposed to be pretty transient, now, drawn eventually to Heaven or Hell, but someone who became a Dream Wraith centuries or millenia before the Fall might have become much more habituated and hard to pry loose. Old Wraiths might be yet another small-but-interesting category of March denizen. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:24:23 -0500 (CDT) From: SaturdayBoy Subject: Re: IN> Superheroes and In Nomine well, I'm willing to explain away all "mutants" as Children of the Grigori... - ---That is all... - ---Commander Eric out. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:28:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Emily Dresner Subject: Re: IN> INC > The new new page is a major win in terms of how easy it is to > navigate and how easy it is to read. I don't think it needs any > more graphics than it has, because it is a much cleaner and readable > look than the official SJG pages. Thanks. :) I'm planning on doing a switch in about a week or so, when I'm fairly confident all the bugs are out and there's better support for LYNX users. > I really dislike the official pages' practice of using GIFs as > headers, since it is dark red text in a complex font on a black > background. This is totally unreadable on my monitor. > > Em's design works much better -- I can read it all easily. Mine too, which is why I changed it. Have a very hard time with the color that is chosen (#DC0804) and seeing it on the red background. Therefore, a majority of the text has been changed to white and the links to yellow. Even on my fuzzy, nearly dead Compaq 171 FS monitor - not known for it's clarity when it was new, and not exactly clear when it's dying - I can read the INC from across my cube. Therefore, a big win. I tried adding little teeny tiny flaming feathers to after each new article entry today, and my god does it look messy and busy. It's just not a pleasant thing at all. Therefore, it's not going to happen, not in this lifetime, and not under my hard rule of cruel dictatorship. As for using big GIFs on the SJGames pages, they're a real big loss for people who happen to read (or say, work on) these pages at home at night over a 28.8K or less. Table coloring is just a tag and it's just as fast as text. Images are a whole different can of worms. From home, I cannot see the SJGames main page because of the proliferation of images, and I'm part of the 30% who surf the net with images off. It's really just not a pretty sight. > I agree with you here, and I see a related (but trivially fixed) > problem: visited links are the same color as the regular body text. > This should be fixed. Yup. I'm working on both of these things today. I've found that making the headers into similarly colored bars makes the page nearly unreadable, so the text just got bigger, bolder, and less underlined. Now they don't look so much like links. As for the links, I'm working now on picking a compatible color. When this happens, the change will be made. - - Em ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:49:38 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Submitting to Pyramid At 8:10 PM -0400 8/19/98, David Edelstein wrote: >>>>Of course, if you could get BETH to submit it for you, it might stand a >better chance of being read, too.<<< > >Well, if Beth wants to do that, more power to her, but I don't think it's >either fair or considerate to her to start using her as the person to whom >you send In Nomine submissions as a way of trying to make an end run around >the normal submissions procedure. Not to mention I won't do it. If you ask ahead of time, I'll play editor and nitpicker on your draft so it will look nice for the *real* submission (i.e., I'll catch all the errors that I'd say 'No, this won't do' otherwise *and* pretty up your sentences -- if they're not hopeless to begin with, in which case you need a friend to help you with your first draft). But I won't send it in for you unless I get to put my name on it and get the money for it. You have to send the revised copy yourself. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:51:30 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Little Girl Lost (plot seed) At 9:38 AM +0200 8/20/98, Anders Gabrielsson wrote: >Angels don't need to sleep. This makes it more difficult to get the baby >away without the Angels noticing, but I'm sure a resourceful Demon can >come up with something. (If you're guarding the Marches from time to time?) >Killing the vessel of the child won't destroy it... but getting put >through Trauma isn't a very nice experience either. IIRC, vessel-killing a spirit no longer sends it to Heaven/Hell. They now go to Limbo. (From APG/IPG, and should be in errata, but may not be. *sigh*) Trauma, Limbo... Not a very nice thing to do to a baby! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:57:08 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Re: Expanded Angelic Resonances At 4:43 PM +0100 8/20/98, Julian Breen wrote: >Elizabeth wrote, on Thu 13 August: >> >>I just errata'ed the last sentence of p. 117, if anyone cares. (And, >>to rant and rave, APG passed without any Line Editor whatsoever. My >>best tweaks were to remove some of the check-digit tables. If I'd been >>truly in the saddle, the APG would have been.... much different.) > >Have you your own write-ups for expanded resonance use for various >angelic choirs? Not yet. Basically, if (whenwhenwhen, hear me chant!) we get the second edition APG, you'll see the changes there. Until I get the go-ahead on that, I'm working on other stuff. >Is that something that you can post here, or would you >need permission? I would need to get permission. >I just looked at the advanced Mercurian table (the -2 one) >and thought 'Bright Lilim'. Ah, yes, #2 on my list to eliminate/change.... (#1 is the Kyriotate tables. Both of them. They make my teeth grind.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:50:34 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Little Girl Lost (plot seed) Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > IIRC, vessel-killing a spirit no longer sends it to Heaven/Hell. > They now go to Limbo. (From APG/IPG, and should be in errata, but > may not be. *sigh*) Trauma, Limbo... Not a very nice thing to do to > a baby! Didn't you only go to Limbo if you had no Heart? (Of course, a baby reliever born on Earth might not have.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:32:09 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> Little Girl Lost (plot seed) On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > At 9:38 AM +0200 8/20/98, Anders Gabrielsson wrote: > >Angels don't need to sleep. This makes it more difficult to get the baby > >away without the Angels noticing, but I'm sure a resourceful Demon can > >come up with something. > > (If you're guarding the Marches from time to time?) That's good enough for me. > >Killing the vessel of the child won't destroy it... but getting put > >through Trauma isn't a very nice experience either. > > IIRC, vessel-killing a spirit no longer sends it to Heaven/Hell. > They now go to Limbo. (From APG/IPG, and should be in errata, but > may not be. *sigh*) Trauma, Limbo... Not a very nice thing to do to > a baby! Hm. A reliever isn't a spirit, is it? I'm not sure what happens to them... Anyway, like you say, it's not something you'd want to put your baby through. Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! May you have the knowledge of a sage, and the wisdom of a child. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:09:10 -0400 From: Matthew Stein Subject: Re: IN> Humans and Fate before the Fall >Such an afterlife might explain the Greek Hades, >Hebrew Sheol, or Norse Hel -- mostly dreary places of ghostly >existence without notable reward or punishment. I thought that Sheol wasn't really that (maybe I'm wrong; haven't been to Sunday school in years). From my understanding, anyone who dies (according to Judaism), his/her soul either goes straight to Heaven or just hangs around for eleven months (hence, sitting Shiva over the departed) while God makes up his mind. If he likes you, you go to Heaven; if not, you just disappear. My money, then, is on an eleven month probationairy period, followed by either your soul going *poof!* or heading up Heaven's way. Maybe - still - when one dies Yves decides where the soul goes, either up or down, and it takes him some time to do that. (Personally, I like the idea of Yves and Kronos duking it out, but that'd never happen.) Matt ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #924 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.