From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Aug 24 01:33:49 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA01045 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 01:33:49 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id BAA17461 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 24 Aug 1998 01:20:58 -0500 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 01:20:58 -0500 Message-Id: <199808240620.BAA17461@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #927 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, August 24 1998 Volume 01 : Number 927 In this digest: IN> God, Lucifer, and other mysteries. IN> Celestials & Disturbance (Was: A new way to...) Re: IN> God, Lucifer, and other mysteries. Re: IN> Little Girl Lost (plot seed) Re: IN> Little Girl Lost (plot seed) Re: IN> Re: Expanded Angelic Resonances IN> Another disturbance formula Re: IN> Another disturbance formula Re: IN> God, Lucifer, and other mysteries. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 23:51:17 EDT From: Gruzzle@aol.com Subject: IN> God, Lucifer, and other mysteries. Coming up with what exactly God is or Lucifer is kind of ruins the game. It's like watching a cheap magic trick, which before completely amazed you, after someone tells you how it's done. some thing are just meant to be left untold. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 08:19:51 -0500 From: Shadowstar Subject: IN> Celestials & Disturbance (Was: A new way to...) On Fri, 21 Aug 1998; Robert Knop said the following: >The WSDR as is makes it harder for a celestial to dissapear "into a >crowd" by limiting it's use of supernormal powers. Now, it would >probably have to cut them out altogether. Er, isn't that the whole point though? [Turning on the Bal-Elohite resonance] The logic behind the War is that -Direct- Celestial Action would therefore spoil the results of Grand 'Free-Will' Experiment. Akin to how the knowledge of being observed during the course of an experiment, influences how the subject reacts. The -Only- reason Celestials are even risking this, is because Demon's don't play fairly all the time. Some amount of tinkering can be done, so long as it doesn't effect the whole. Besides which, the old system is a headache and half (no doubt thought up by a cooperative effort between Beleth, Asmodeus and Vapula; or even Kobal, whichever is more sadistic). Keep it simple, and your friendly neiborhood GM (or Storyteller) won't have to resort to using their Graphic Calculator left over from their Calculus days... - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centuryinter.net # Balseraph Marquis of Fate, Demon of Delusions of Granduer ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 12:23:10 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> God, Lucifer, and other mysteries. On Sat, 22 Aug 1998 Gruzzle@aol.com wrote: > Coming up with what exactly God is or Lucifer is kind of ruins the game. > It's like watching a cheap magic trick, which before completely amazed you, > after someone tells you how it's done. > > some thing are just meant to be left untold. I disagree. I think that if Steve Jackson Games came up with the official definition of what exactly the nature of God and Lucifer was, that would ruin the game. On the other hand, when I define them as the GM of my campaign, that doesn't ruin it. It actually enhances the game, because I understand what is going on in the background. Richard "Mr. Uriel" Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit my web page. The Gaming Ghetto, at In Nomine: The Last Days, at Walking the Planes, at - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 13:02:27 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Little Girl Lost (plot seed) At 8:13 AM +0200 8/22/98, Anders Gabrielsson wrote: >On Fri, 21 Aug 1998, Walter Milliken wrote: > >> >> IIRC, vessel-killing a spirit no longer sends it to Heaven/Hell. >> >> They now go to Limbo. (From APG/IPG, and should be in errata, but >> >> may not be. *sigh*) Trauma, Limbo... Not a very nice thing to do to >> >> a baby! >> > >> >Hm. A reliever isn't a spirit, is it? >> >> They fall into the class of celestial spirits, along with imps and >> gremlins. It's in the back of the main book, I think. > >Ah, I was thinking spirit = Ethereal spirit. > >Anyway, in the IPG (p. 95) it says that a celestial spirit who's vessel is >killed goes to Limbo, though I couldn't find such a reference in the APG, >at least not in connection with Relievers. IPG, p. 95. (And there's an internal inconsistancy on p. 96, too, curse it all. But the top of the 2nd column on IPG p. 95 is, I believe, what I am going to stick with for all celestial spirits.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:54:54 -0400 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: Re: IN> Little Girl Lost (plot seed) At 2:13 AM -0400 8/22/98, Anders Gabrielsson wrote: >Anyway, in the IPG (p. 95) it says that a celestial spirit who's vessel is >killed goes to Limbo, though I couldn't find such a reference in the APG, >at least not in connection with Relievers. Yeah, I noticed that too, and didn't take it to mean that Demon Princes couldn't make Hearts for Imps and Gremlins, but just that they didn't because it was far too much trouble to waste on some dinky little spirit they'd already shelled out the Essence to build a Vessel for. As for Archangels, I'd taken them to care more about their servitiors, enough to build a Heart for all the Angels they plonk on Earth, including the Relievers. They likely have less earthbound servitors to take care of, and limbo's a harsh, harsh place, even if you've got a will of 6. (Ran some simulations, do not /ever/ expect to get out of Limbo with a human Vessel if you have a 6 Will and 3 Celestial Forces, unless you have help). Its bad enough that many Celestial Spirits will be in Trauma for months, heart or no. That and it directly contradicted a pair of precedents I'd already set, but hey, what can you do? \|=) ===== ><{{"> =================================================== <"}}>< ====== Nana-Yaw "The Fish" Ofori, Freelance Soldier of Heck, presenty serving Winslow, Habbalite Inspector of Technology, the Demon of Spaceflight. nofori@pop3.utoledo.edu | Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~maltesh maltesh@usa.net | In Nomine: http://members.tripod.com/~maltesh/T317 ===== ><{{"> ============ "Life's a Fish, then you Fry." ======= <"}}>< ====== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 20:36:57 -0400 From: "Matthew D. Gandy" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Expanded Angelic Resonances Would mind posting a tentative list of APG expanded resonances we might want to throw out *before* it becomes canon? I'd really appreciate knowing which ones aren't like to survive canonically. - -Matthew D. Gandy still looking for the face I had before the world was made ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 19:09:30 PDT From: "David Streeter" Subject: IN> Another disturbance formula I haven't had a chance to go over the other disturbance formula yet, but ignorance has never stopped me from commenting before... I think there should be a modifier for other disturbances that might be heard, say, -1 per other disturbance with a positive modifier at the listener's current location? This would limit the range of the louder disturbances. Also, what is disturbance? I propose that it is a measure of how much celestials interfere with humans' free will. Hence the high penalty for killing a human. However, this is a somewhat radical change, and might open more cans of worms - eg. should there be a disturbance for emptying someone's bank account, revealing the existence of angels, etc etc. Making it a measure of free-will interference makes it easier to grasp for new players, though. SurturZ Habbalite of Factions, Angel of Constructive Criticism ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 22:24:18 EDT From: CaelinR@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Another disturbance formula In a message dated 8/23/98 10:14:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, david_streeter@hotmail.com writes: << Also, what is disturbance? I propose that it is a measure of how much celestials interfere with humans' free will. Hence the high penalty for killing a human. However, this is a somewhat radical change, and might open more cans of worms - eg. should there be a disturbance for emptying someone's bank account, revealing the existence of angels, etc etc. Making it a measure of free-will interference makes it easier to grasp for new players, though. >> hMM... But actions dealing with humans, such as revealing the existance of Angels, don't really interfere with free will, they just give the humans a different set of information on which to base their decisions. Gaesea would definitely count for serious disturbance, under that definition though. To be honest, I'm not sure I like that definition, but it has some implications that could be interesting. In particular, how the appearance of a superior creates so much disturbance to human free will. Is it possible that the presence of such a profound conceptual entity on earth has some sort of effect on the surrounding environment? I.E. When Saminga shows up, the heart attack rate in the surrounding area spikes, or when Malphas shows up, fights just coincidentally tend to break out? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 02:18:37 -0400 From: Matthew Stein Subject: Re: IN> God, Lucifer, and other mysteries. >On Sat, 22 Aug 1998 Gruzzle@aol.com wrote: >> Coming up with what exactly God is or Lucifer is kind of ruins the game. >> It's like watching a cheap magic trick, which before completely amazed you, >> after someone tells you how it's done. >> >> some thing are just meant to be left untold. >On the other hand, when I define them as the GM of my campaign, that >doesn't ruin it. It actually enhances the game, because I understand what >is going on in the background. What I'd propose is this. Yes, I think that if SJ Games defined God, etc, part of the mystery - and hence, interest - in IN would be destroyed. However, there *are* many different Celestials, and I betcha each of them sees God differently. Yves might see God as one thing, Lilith might see Him as another. Might not each angel, therefore, not have a different idea, and thus discussions of God and the Celestials is useful because it is ideas for how the Celestials see themselves in the Symphony and relating to God. Yves might see the truth, whereas Michael can just see him - and the others - as "children," of a sort, of God, sent to vocational school when they're created. Just a thought. Matt ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #927 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.