From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Aug 27 23:00:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA04717 for ; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 23:00:39 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id WAA08781 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:35:39 -0500 Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:35:39 -0500 Message-Id: <199808280335.WAA08781@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #931 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, August 27 1998 Volume 01 : Number 931 In this digest: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #927 IN> Demon Prince / Baron thingie Re: IN> The Tsayadim Re: IN> Los Angeles Wordbounds Re: IN> How bad is dissonance? Re: IN> Band Variant: The AXANIM [Experimental] IN> Wordhounds Re: IN> A new Demon Prince Re: IN> Los Angeles Wordbounds IN> FotM Kitty Nitpicks (Re: How bad is dissonance?) Re: IN> Wordhounds RE: IN> Wordhounds Re: IN> Wordhounds Re: IN> FotM Kitty Nitpicks (Re: How bad is dissonance?) Re: IN> A new Demon Prince IN> A Million Points of WHAT? IN> FotM Nitpicks, Kitty, Spoiler IN> The Grigori (Experimental Chior) Re: IN> Wordhounds IN> The Tsayadim Re: IN> Wordhounds Re: IN> Wordhounds ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:53:38 +0100 From: Roland Ward Subject: Re: IN> Re: in_nomine-digest V1 #927 Martin Arnold wrote: > Hello, sports fans... > > i'm always > happy to share ideas. > also if anyone's interested, i think pooling al the available stuff > people have for UK based campaigns into one source would be a fun idea - > especially for GM's who have servitors of Janus/Valefor in their group; > know wot i mean! > > > Marnie > Well I tried e-mailing personally but it didn't seem to get through.... Anyway I'm up for In "Nomine UK" and if I can get the mail to your account I'll send some more London material... Roland :-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:13:52 +0100 From: Roland Ward Subject: IN> Demon Prince / Baron thingie Okay so I took a few pot shots at others but what abotu this one for a potential Demon Prince (not sure about the name though) Birran, Demon Prince of Oppression Where there is the creative, there is all was the struggle against oppression Birran was an angel of Order, he made patterns in the creative work of chaos, he helped to regulate planets, did the accounts, and was generally felt to be useful. One day however he went too far. It was early in the days of human civilisation, he felt that humans needed told what to do, ordered, in short controlled. He merely suggested to one tribe that they would be better taking control of another - it was more economically sensible. Things got worse - he suggested regular work patterns, reduction of rights, soon those humans were not controlling - they were enslaving. His fall was quick and nasty - he was chucked out by Eli in a (rare) fit of anger after the execution of the first dissident writer. Ever since Birran has continually fought to stamp out creativity, self-will, and impose the will of the stong and faceless forces on humans. He has helped in every major empire, working behind the scenes to arrange the opression of the masses. In Central America and Africa the mortals performed beyond his wildest dreams, whole nations were oppressed. In Europe his forces were defeated - Revolutions in France and Russia lead by Janus overthrew his power (but were soon corrupted by Malphas) Nowadays he has found a new market - big business. With the help of the media he has built up large oppressive corporations that dominate the worlds supply of goods. Behind every conglomerate board, Birran stands, helping things on here - crushing competition there. He's doing his job well, particularly in the fast food market. Recently he's been turning his attention to computers... Birran has many allies in hell. As he is effectively the "Auditor from Hell" he has to get on with most. Nybbas particuarly gets on with him, and he is one of the few that deals extensively with Cronos. His enemies are also strong. He is particularly hated by Lilith - his word is in direct opposition to hers. In celestial quarters he has the contempt of Janus, Eli, and particuarly Jordi (the oppression of horses & battery chickens has made the archangel seething with anger over the years). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:21:51 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> The Tsayadim On Thu, Aug 27, 1998 at 09:13:36AM -0500, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > Yes, they Fell by _abandoning_ the Word of Purity -- they freely > > renounced their Word, and so were no longer angels of Purity. > > Is this a two-step process? I mean, do they fall just by resigning > from Purity, do they? Or do they resign from Purity and thereby > lose their invulnerability to Falling, and so fall at a later > date for some other reason? > I assume the latter, and it makes perfect sense. You can't mix Purity with anything else and expect it to remain pure, so once they're bound to the Sword or Judgement or whatever, they become vulnerable to falling. (Unless they're Malakim.) This suggests a motivation for some of the Tsayadim. Better to be Outcast than even the remote possibility of falling. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "We have been fortunate enough to live to a time when virtue, though it does not triumph, is nevertheless not always tormented by attack dogs." Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the Gulag Archipelago. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:04:11 +0100 From: Julian Breen Subject: Re: IN> Los Angeles Wordbounds >>Looking at FotM I was just a little surprised to see no real coverage of >>Word-bounds operating there. I would have thought that there would have >>been more of them in such an important place to hell? > >There are several Word-bound Seneschals, I believe. Aren't seneschals usually Word-bound by definition though, their tether generally being their Word? > But it's true there >aren't any regular Word-bound. Well, there's a couple - Absinthia and Jurgen. > It may be that because LA is "sewn up", >more powerful demons are sent elsewhere, where they can have more >effect, and LA is used as a training ground for the less powerful. > Fair suggestion, but Vegas is no doubt a bastion of Hell also, and I would expect to find powerful Word-bounds of Asmodeus and Mammon firmly entrenched there. Just because you have gained a victory doesn't mean you can afford to be complacent. In FotM, the fact of LA being "sewn up" is cited as Baal's lack of immediate concern here. With Baal, this is understandable. He's a master strategist and likes to manage his resources to his best advantage. Read this as always giving his generals something to concentrate on rather than sitting back and enjoying the Spoils of The War (keep them busy and well honed and as an added advantage they'll have less time to think about mutiny). Even so, Baal will recognise the importance of keeping all of your bases covered. If somewhere like LA was left without a certain number of more powerful Word-bound, not neccessarily *his* but *somebody's*, then Heaven becomes far more capable of retrieving the territory. As for the other Princes and their demons, each Word-bound generally has at least one Distinction and with Distinctions come servants of your own. So why not sit pretty and let your lackeys do the neccessary footwork in furthering your Word? Isn't this what servitors are for? True, if you want something _big_ done you may be better off doing it yourself (and maybe that's why the Word-bounds leave their subordinates in charge of things from time to time as they go off doing such things), but you also have the problem that the carpet might get tugged from underneath your feet if you're not firmly stood on it. >Frankly, I thought there were too *many* Word-bound in Austin. > > Well, yes. But your earlier suggestion would then imply that Heaven/Hell has big things planned there. ;) - -- Julian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:19:08 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> How bad is dissonance? On Fri, Aug 07, 1998 at 10:49:18AM -0500, Elizabeth Bartley wrote: This is a massively late reply, but I'm clearing out my inbox so I might as well respond. > The Habbalah and the Calabim both take dissonance as an *option*; the > Habbalah can feel the emotions that someone reflected or take dissonance, > and the Calabim can lash out again when someone resisted their resonance > or take dissonance. If dissonance were as bad as you portray, there > wouldn't be any point to having an option to take dissonance; no one ever > would. > I'd say most demons would prefer to take a point of dissonance than die, or even suffer a major disadvantage. There are many angels who would feel otherwise. > A stereotypical Mercurian of Flowers would probably react more along the > lines of "Oh, how *awful*. What could I have done earlier so I didn't > have to do that now?" > I'd assume any Servitor of Flowers would feel that way. > But I don't think +any+ Mercurian would doubt that personally wounding a > Hellsworn is preferable to having that Hellsworn kill -- oh, say two > angels and five Soldiers of God. (Mercurians of Flowers might feel > otherwise about actually *killing* a Hellsworn, since their Archangel is > likely to be pissed.) > Again, any angel of Flowers wouldn't like to kill a Hellsworn, given that it's dissonant. Songs of Harmony can be very useful in such circumstances. > I'd like to point out that in the example I was talking about, I was > proposing that Mira should and realistically would have taken a point of > Dissonance not to escape the geas (she did, after all, fulfill the geas) > but to (1) avoid breaking the Heart of a friend with tons of Dissonance > and Discord, and Here's the main reason I'm replying. There is a good reason why Malphas wanted the dissonance to strike at hourly intervals (or so I understand): he didn't want the effects of the mind altering powers he used beforehand to wear off. Note that any Calabite of Factions could stop her caring about her friend for either check digit or Ethereal Forces hours (I'm not sure which). One assumes Malphas did this to her as well. (2) save her own skin, since she should have *known* she > would be killed when she returned the artifact. > But everyone knows how much Malphas avoids doing violence. Why, he's famous for it. (I'm not sure why he _did_ kill her. Altering her memories might seem a better option, though he might have feared that someone would undo the alteration.) Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "We have been fortunate enough to live to a time when virtue, though it does not triumph, is nevertheless not always tormented by attack dogs." Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the Gulag Archipelago. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:00:22 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Band Variant: The AXANIM [Experimental] On Mon, Jul 27, 1998 at 01:37:17AM -0400, gantr@NKU.EDU wrote: > > Verrrrrrry cool... > > Oh, I agree completely. I was actually disappointed that they didn't have > a resonance written up yet (I'm still letting ideas perk, though). > Firstly, I'd say that any damage done should be based on the check digit and the material the object is made of, as the Force involved should be the same no matter what mass the object is. Perhaps each check digit point should be considered to have the lifting power of 2 Strength. This would be more useful if there was a weight chart, admittedly. I'd be inclined to give them the same resonance failure and distance limitations as Calabim, because they are supposed to be a variant. One bit about Calabim that I didn't write in that piece was an idea for how their resonance worked. Basically, it involved moving the object they were focusing on in 5-space, so that to our limited perceptions in 4-space, bits of the object appeared to go missing, while it appeared to be stationary. This dovetails nicely with the way the Ofanite resonance works, in some regards, though I'm not sure about some of the advanced resonance stuff. They don't move more quickly, they just move a shorter distance, and are also able to perceive objects they just shouldn't be able to perceive. The subtle use of the Calabite resonance involves attempting to rotate the image in your mind (thus allowing greater precision) while simultaneously trying to hold it still in order to focus the resonance on it. This is obviously excruciatingly difficult, and explains the -4 penalty to the Will roll. I tend to think of the fifth dimension thing as more of a metaphor, but it's a nice enough explanation. Calabim of Fate simply have the option to move the object in time rather than the fifth dimension, and Axanim move it in space. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "We have been fortunate enough to live to a time when virtue, though it does not triumph, is nevertheless not always tormented by attack dogs." Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the Gulag Archipelago. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 12:09:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Allen Subject: IN> Wordhounds The Wordhounds concept as it was laid out this morning didn't make a lot of sense to me in the overall context of Hell. There is a definite political Order to Hell, even as chaotic as it may seem at times. Tossing a bunch of "work-for-hire" assassins into the fray is a bit like smoking near a napalm factory. In other words, definitely a short term assignment. First, a band of "for hire" assassins steps on far too many toes in the structure of Hell. One of the important things to keep in mind is that culpability in an activity is something to be avoided at all costs. In fact, to my mind, unless your plan has been gloriously successful, you want to minimize your exposure to failure and maintain a degree of plausible deniability. A group of assassins for hire, presumably, would not maintain such a degree of distance from their work. And since the Superior Princes of Hell are *much* more powerful than thier rank and file servitors, it would be little effort to squash this band like bug -- especially if they upset the balance of Hell so wildly with some capricious killing. Second, Words are granted by Lucifer, personally. It occurs to me that trifling with the First of the Fallen's whims might not be such a healthy behavior to engage in. If you piss off Lucifer, Prince or no, you're pretty much a screwed pooch, in my book. No amount of Essence can make *that* worth it. Thirdly, while deceit, assassination and outright evil has a place in being worthy of Lucifer's attention, I can't honestly believe he'd be willing to grant some other demon a Word he'd given out before. Seems more likely he'd make them "Demon of Hangnails," or "Demon of Leaky Faucets," than the Word they *actually* sought. Payment of Essence, to my concept of Lucifer, would seem a *poor* substitute for actually lying, backstabbing and stealing your way to the top of the heap. Four, Princes of Hell are not, generally, stupid. (Saminga even has some wits about him, in his own special way.) I would imagine each Prince has his own forces for doing what needs to be done to further their own ends. Succinctly, servitors who are worthy of Words, and worthy of someone *else's* Word, especially, will discover, plan and execute (literally) a scheme to eliminate the current Demon without resorting to paying someone else to do the dirty work. Mark - -- Mark Allen -- mallen@computer.org -- http://www.byte-me.org/~mallen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:31:18 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> A new Demon Prince On Tue, Aug 11, 1998 at 02:23:27AM -0400, Pee Kitty wrote: > Interesting. I'd say it's too limited a word to qualify for Princedom It depends on how liberally you interpret it. If you interpret weaponry as "anything you can use to hurt someone or something", then it is, though that doesn't seem to be the poster's interpretation. > > BULLSEYE! > > For One essence, a Called shot by this demon is concidered a normal attack. > > Waste of 10 points. The difference in accuracy between a called shot and a > normal attack is -1; This is just wrong. I remember that there's a -4 penalty for attempting to hit someone's hand. I'm not sure what other penalties are listed, but on that basis going for someone's eye would be about -6 to -8. Personally, I think the original version was very useful. If anyone inflicts 6 points of damage to someone's eye (after Dodge and Corporeal Form), then that target's Vessel is dead no matter how many body hits they have, IMG. If you hit their hand, they're likely to drop their weapon. Hits to the legs will stop people moving (a hit to the back of the kneecaps can cripple someone for life). And you can also call for someone's arteries/jugular vein. More instant death. Bonuses to damage are just unnecessary. Personally I think such an attunement should be restricted to a single weapon, and even at that it's still more powerful than Proficiency. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "We have been fortunate enough to live to a time when virtue, though it does not triumph, is nevertheless not always tormented by attack dogs." Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the Gulag Archipelago. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:19:54 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Los Angeles Wordbounds At 7:04 PM +0100 8/27/98, Julian Breen wrote: >>>Looking at FotM I was just a little surprised to see no real coverage of >>>Word-bounds operating there. I would have thought that there would have >>>been more of them in such an important place to hell? >> >>There are several Word-bound Seneschals, I believe. > >Aren't seneschals usually Word-bound by definition though, their tether >generally being their Word? Generally, though there are some exceptions, and yes, the Word is, 99.99999999999999999 times out of 100, the Tether. >Even so, Baal will recognise the importance of keeping all of your bases >covered. If somewhere like LA was left without a certain number of more >powerful Word-bound, not neccessarily *his* but *somebody's*, then >Heaven becomes far more capable of retrieving the territory. The Wordbound Seneschals may be sufficient, along with Absinthia and Jurgen. (With the Tether-rules being proposed, Seneschals are nasty, nasty people to go up against.) Another reason for Wordbound not to care about LA much (as you alluded to) -- there's nothing for them to do *but* sit on their heels and direct lackeys, lackeys who are now out there *making progress* dragging humans to the Pit in places where it's an achievement. Out there making themselves look good -- and probably trying to make you look bad. If you have any *real* ambition, you don't hang out in LA for years upon years, unless it's to build up a Role -- and if you're that powerful, you probably already have one. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:22:50 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> FotM Kitty Nitpicks (Re: How bad is dissonance?) At 7:19 PM +0100 8/27/98, Kevin Walsh wrote: >But everyone knows how much Malphas avoids doing violence. Why, he's >famous for it. (I'm not sure why he _did_ kill her. Altering her memories >might seem a better option, though he might have feared that someone would >undo the alteration.) Note that she's not *quite* Dead. Yet. Meow. (Well, remnatized kitty isn't much better, but hey.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Aug 98 15:47:33 CDT From: redneck@detnet.com (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> Wordhounds > >The Wordhounds concept as it was laid out this morning didn't make a lot of >sense to me in the overall context of Hell. > >There is a definite political Order to Hell, even as chaotic as it may seem >at times. Tossing a bunch of "work-for-hire" assassins into the fray is a bit >like smoking near a napalm factory. In other words, definitely a short term >assignment. Hell without assassins? -Especially- work-for-hire assassins? >First, a band of "for hire" assassins steps on far too many toes in >the structure of Hell. One of the important things to keep in mind is >that culpability in an activity is something to be avoided at all costs. In >fact, to my mind, unless your plan has been gloriously successful, you want >to minimize your exposure to failure and maintain a degree of plausible >deniability. A group of assassins for hire, presumably, would not maintain >such a degree of distance from their work. And since the Superior Princes of >Hell are *much* more powerful than thier rank and file servitors, it would be >little effort to squash this band like bug -- especially if they upset the >balance of Hell so wildly with some capricious killing. Capricious? Not the Wordhounds. Little reasons aside, they're under the strict control of Lilith herself- they aren't going to take just any demon's case. >Second, Words are granted by Lucifer, personally. It occurs to me that >trifling with the First of the Fallen's whims might not be such a healthy >behavior to engage in. If you piss off Lucifer, Prince or no, you're >pretty much a screwed pooch, in my book. No amount of Essence can >make *that* worth it. How do -you- know that Lucifer didn't set up the demon to be taken down or threatened in order to prove its worth? Just because Lucifer gives a demon a Word, it does not follow that that demon has found favor in Lucifer's sight... >Thirdly, while deceit, assassination and outright evil has a place in being >worthy of Lucifer's attention, I can't honestly believe he'd be willing to >grant some other demon a Word he'd given out before. I do believe he has. I can't recall the reference, though. Seems more likely he'd >make them "Demon of Hangnails," or "Demon of Leaky Faucets," than the Word >they *actually* sought. Payment of Essence, to my concept of Lucifer, would >seem a *poor* substitute for actually lying, backstabbing and stealing >your way to the top of the heap. How do you think one -gets- that much Essence in Hell? Furthermore, hiring help- and qualified help at that- shows an initiative and tactical realism all its own. >Four, Princes of Hell are not, generally, stupid. (Saminga even has some >wits about him, in his own special way.) I would imagine each Prince has his >own forces for doing what needs to be done to further their own ends. Yes... but let's suppose you don't want your involvement in the activity to be public knowledge? As Lilith's servants, the Wordhounds have a unique advantage; provided they can show they were under Lilith's orders to do something, they probably won't have to worry about the consequences of their actions. Lilith is not the most powerful being in Hell by a long shot, but her control of the Lilim gives her enough leverage that it would require something truly drastic, indeed, for -any- Demon Prince to strike at her or hers. And in the meantime, the Wordhounds are useful... and -very- good at what they do. >Succinctly, servitors who are worthy of Words, and worthy of someone >*else's* Word, especially, will discover, plan and execute (literally) >a scheme to eliminate the current Demon without resorting to paying >someone else to do the dirty work. Some can... others don't have the power, or intelligence, or political allies. All one needs, however, is ambition. There are many, many, many assassins in Hell, few of which can be trusted. The Wordhounds are not only the best, they are the most trustworthy, for one reason: once bought, they always honor the Deal. Or else Lilith turns them over to the Demon Prince who has lost the most due to the particular Wordhound's efforts... Redneck (-no assassination in Hell??!?- What do you call Haagenti's rise to power, involuntary digestion?) Kris Overstreet's email has changed... http://www.detnet.com/redneck/ - Redneck Gaijin Online http://www.wren-spot.com/wlp/ - White Lightning Productions http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/dvpbem/ - In Nomine: Dark Victory PBEM http://www.wren-spot.com/wlp/milkmaid.html - The Magnificent Milkmaid ... respond to redneck@detnet.com please ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:03:58 -0700 From: "Steven Feldon (Exchange)" Subject: RE: IN> Wordhounds -----Original Message----- From: redneck@detnet.com [mailto:redneck@detnet.com] Sent: Thursday, August 27, 1998 1:48 PM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: Re: IN> Wordhounds >Thirdly, while deceit, assassination and outright evil has a place in being >worthy of Lucifer's attention, I can't honestly believe he'd be willing to >grant some other demon a Word he'd given out before. I do believe he has. I can't recall the reference, though. Some easy examples for this are the Demons of Genocide and the two Demon Princes of Corruption and Secrets. Genocide: http://www.serv.net/~srf/index/byname.html#501 Corruption: Legion (http://www.serv.net/~srf/index/byname.html#253 ) and Beelzebub (http://www.serv.net/~srf/index/byname.html#658 ) Secrets: Gebbeleth (http://www.serv.net/~srf/index/byname.html# 145) and Alaemon (http://www.serv.net/~srf/index/byname.html/#8 ) And I'll be adding a page to the INdex detailing any duplicate Words, so that this will be easy to find in the future. steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:50:28 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Wordhounds At 3:47 PM -0500 8/27/98, Redneck Gaijin wrote: >>First, a band of "for hire" assassins steps on far too many toes in >>the structure of Hell. [...] especially if they upset the >>balance of Hell so wildly with some capricious killing. > >Capricious? Not the Wordhounds. Little reasons aside, they're under the >strict control of Lilith herself- they aren't going to take just any demon's >case. Strict control. Lilith. *In the same sentence??* - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:02:02 EDT From: Akumsa@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> FotM Kitty Nitpicks (Re: How bad is dissonance?) >>famous for it. (I'm not sure why he _did_ kill her. Altering her memories >>might seem a better option, though he might have feared that someone would >>undo the alteration.) >Note that she's not *quite* Dead. >Yet. I just got FotM today, and I am wondering, WHY did he kill her? She did her part... If this is how Malphas rewards his servitors, whats the point? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:12:21 EDT From: Akumsa@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> A new Demon Prince Well im gad SOMEONE liked it. I whip Kerzog out when i just wanna kill stuff. Though he might be fun for the list... a mix kind of Demon Prince for the mini-maxer typers, and the roleplayer types out there. >It depends on how liberally you interpret it. If you interpret weaponry as >"anything you can use to hurt someone or something", then it is, though >that doesn't seem to be the poster's interpretation. This is true. Kerzog was made out to be a weapons maker/warrior type. One who took joy in his creation. I wanted him to be the weapons supplier for Baal's army. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:01:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Graveyard Greg Subject: IN> A Million Points of WHAT? > We've added another one. The million point disturbance. >A BUBH??? I think that would sum up my reaction, David! ;) Huh, a million point disturbance? Hm...the destruction of a city could qualify for that, as I read in a later post... Hm, makes me feel sorry for the celestial who heard the disturbance. "Sariel, why are your ears bleeding?" "What? I can't hear you!" Just a thought... Graveyard Greg _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:37:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: IN> FotM Nitpicks, Kitty, Spoiler On Thu, 27 Aug 1998 Akumsa@aol.com wrote: > I just got FotM today, and I am wondering, WHY did he kill her? She did her > part... If this is how Malphas rewards his servitors, whats the point? He killed her because she was a Bright Lilim and he no longer needed her. Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:58:55 EDT From: Akumsa@aol.com Subject: IN> The Grigori (Experimental Chior) Well someone probably beat me to the punch here as well, but here is my interpolation of the Grigori BEFORE the fall, and how they would be played today. (Note, I just got the APG which triggered this) I hold to the theroy that god planned for the Grigori to be cast out. Grigori, The Watchers The second chior created by god after the fall, The Grigori were the teachers of mankind. Whereas the Mercurians were created to be the freinds of man, the Grigori were created to be man's link to the divine. Thier shield from the diabolical. They truley love mandkind, even more so than the Impudites and Mercurians combined. So much that they went against the tenants of heaven and mated with humans... Creating hideous Human/Angelic HalfBreeds, the Nellaphim. But not all was a failure, for thier intermarrying with mankind also created humans with angelic powers... Much like a soldier, only stronger. For these crimes, the Grigori were cast out of heaven. This they were able to understand and forgive, as no celestial like themselves could be as close to humans as they. They the angels began to hunt thier children. Not for the first time in history, angel was pitted against angel. Grigori, however, were loathe to use violence, especially against thier breatheren. Instead, they fled into hiding, using thier resonance to hide thier movements. The knowlage of thier existance has been ignored by the celestial host... dismissed as rumor and supposition. Few angels would even associate with a Grigori, and instead track down rumors of thier existance. Indeed, the destruction of the Nellaphim is one of the few things both Dominic and Michael agree on. Resonance The Grigori Resonance is for Humanity. As the Chior sent to teach mankind, they may use there resonace to completely mask any disturbance thier actions may make in the symphony. They may also invoke thier resoance on a human to instatly calm a human down, no matter HOW angry/sad/upset they feel. This does NOT remove the feelings the human has, just lesson the intensity so that the human is Amicable to a peaceful resolution. Dissonance Being the closest of Chiors to humanity has brought some mean dissonance conditons upon them. One, They cannot purposly cause harm to a human being. This is worse than a Mercurians Resonance, since they can cause harm thru emotion as well. Notes created by this type are temperary, and can be removed if they make amends to the human later. This type of dissonance does not include harm caused to teach a lesson or Discipline a child (thus you CAN be a police officer or Teacher, but NOT a soldier or Assassin). KILLING a human causes a note of dissonance AND a level of Discord (Randomly determined). Killing a human in self defense does NOT cause Discord, but you still gain dissonance. Killing a demon causes no dissonance. Killing an Angel also causes no dissonance, but the Grigori must make will rolls to fight thier breatheren, even after all this time. Other Penalties: Well when you've been kicked out of heaven, you got problems right? - -You cannot assume a celestial form for more than Celestial force minutes. To try to do this longer causes dissonance. - -You cannot ascend to heaven. Well, okay, you can TRY, but I dont think you'd want to stay thier for long. - -If yer an angel, you are keeping yer own heart somewhere. Keep it safe. - -Oh you want songs? Who are you going to learn them from? Attunements? Rites? Who is going to be stupid enough to hand them off to you? Other Bonuses: - -You cannot fall. This was never discovered by heaven, of course. They were too busy trying to kill you. One wonders how they could be kicked out of heaven and not be bitter? They LOVE mankind too much to abandon them. - -You CAN learn a song, at double the point cost of a normal angel. At Noon, you regenerate 2 essence, a trick you leraned since heaven is no longer open to you. - -Not all archangels have abandoned you. Eli is still surfing the symphony and can be yer archangel, if he chooses. You can summon him as normal, and get this servitor attunement: Grigori The MOST human of chiors gains the ability to see any human who is suffering from a block of any kind (Writers block, Artists block). Grigori, with a resonance roll can find something that might inspire a human artist. If they can successfully expose this human to insperation, they gain one essence. No dissonance is gain for failing the resonance roll. - -You cannot be tracked by any celestial means (according to the APG), INCLUDING the resonance of the Cherubim/Djinn. Other resonances (Malakim, Seraphim, ect.) Work as normal on you. But none will reveal you as a Grigori. (Unless they roll a 111.) Well folks, enjoy! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- John T Perkowski, Ofanite of Arcade Games Maker of Attunements (Challenge me with a word, I guarantee, I'll get you an attunment for each band or chior in 24 hrs) "That... That would give me a Hackmaster +15 (faint)" "Dave passed out!" "Yeah... But look at that stupid Grin!"- Knights of the Dinner Table (Tales from the Vault) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Aug 98 18:10:54 CDT From: redneck@detnet.com (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> Wordhounds >At 3:47 PM -0500 8/27/98, Redneck Gaijin wrote: > >>>First, a band of "for hire" assassins steps on far too many toes in >>>the structure of Hell. [...] especially if they upset the >>>balance of Hell so wildly with some capricious killing. >> >>Capricious? Not the Wordhounds. Little reasons aside, they're under the >>strict control of Lilith herself- they aren't going to take just any demon's >>case. > >Strict control. Lilith. *In the same sentence??* > > > Yes, strict control and Lilith. Lilith has a Deal with each and every one of the 'Hounds, and she is not going to let them either wriggle out or mess up -their- part of the bargain. Of course, she's already met -her- part of the Deal... Redneck (hey, they were Free to make the choice to get indebted to her...) Kris Overstreet's email has changed... http://www.detnet.com/redneck/ - Redneck Gaijin Online http://www.wren-spot.com/wlp/ - White Lightning Productions http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/dvpbem/ - In Nomine: Dark Victory PBEM http://www.wren-spot.com/wlp/milkmaid.html - The Magnificent Milkmaid ... respond to redneck@detnet.com please ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:01:19 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> The Tsayadim >>>Is this a two-step process? I mean, do they fall just by resigning from Purity, do they? Or do they resign from Purity and thereby lose their invulnerability to Falling, and so fall at a later date for some other reason?<<< The latter. Of course the process of "resigning" from a Word has never been established in canon -- it may be something only Servitors of Purity can do, by virtue of the intense dedication required to remain an angel of Purity. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 23:01:42 -0400 From: "Matthew D. Gandy" Subject: Re: IN> Wordhounds Redneck Gaijin wrote: > There are many, many, many assassins in Hell, few of which can be trusted. > The Wordhounds are not only the best, they are the most trustworthy, for one > reason: once bought, they always honor the Deal. > I'm sorry, but the rest of your logic aside, the ascription of "most trustworthy" to political deal-making fiends strikes me as more unbelievable that "strict control" and "Lilith" being in the same sentence probably struck our resident Archangel. Who would trust them if they can turn around and effectively undermine what they just did (Geas or no Geas--there are ways to get around the wording of such things...)? How can they hide under Lilith's aegis, especially since her Word of Freedom would *in no way* be supported by their actions. You don't see her servitors rigging political elections, do you? How is this much different? > Or else Lilith turns them over to the Demon Prince who has lost the most due > to the particular Wordhound's efforts... I think it easier to imagine a specially-sanctioned squad of Gamesters (the Loyalty Brigade) that support a wannabe's rise, only to betray him later to either his Demon Prince or Asmodeus; also, I could see a squad of Factioners deliberately playing both ends toward the middle, only to betray them to the Game later. > Redneck (-no assassination in Hell??!?- What do you call Haagenti's rise to > power, involuntary digestion?) This is Haagenti's secret cunning--he rose *slowly*, so as not to tip his hand before he was ready, along the same lines as Charlie (Pyramid #23) is doing. From familiar to Demon Prince takes a *long* time of neither being noticed enough to get squashed by superiors nor appearing weak enough to get squashed by equals or subordinates... - --Matthew D. "Demiurge" Gandy still looking for the face I had before the world was made ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Aug 98 22:34:30 CDT From: redneck@detnet.com (Redneck Gaijin) Subject: Re: IN> Wordhounds > > >Redneck Gaijin wrote: > >> There are many, many, many assassins in Hell, few of which can be trusted. >> The Wordhounds are not only the best, they are the most trustworthy, for one >> reason: once bought, they always honor the Deal. >> > > I'm sorry, but the rest of your logic aside, the ascription of "most >trustworthy" to political deal-making fiends strikes me as more unbelievable that >"strict control" and "Lilith" being in the same sentence probably struck our >resident Archangel. Who would trust them if they can turn around and effectively >undermine what they just did (Geas or no Geas--there are ways to get around the >wording of such things...)? How can they hide under Lilith's aegis, especially >since her Word of Freedom would *in no way* be supported by their actions. You >don't see her servitors rigging political elections, do you? How is this much >different? >From the selfish POV of the word 'freedom,' it seemed -very- appropriate to me. Lilith is, among many aspects of her Word, the embodiment of Free Enterprise. Through the WordHounds, Lilith not only gains slightly more power in Hell, she promotes her Word by opening up 'freedom of opportunity' to those who can pay for it. (Yes, I know this is a stretch, but the idea still seems perfect to me.) Redneck Kris Overstreet's email has changed... http://www.detnet.com/redneck/ - Redneck Gaijin Online http://www.wren-spot.com/wlp/ - White Lightning Productions http://www.jurai.net/~redneck/dvpbem/ - In Nomine: Dark Victory PBEM http://www.wren-spot.com/wlp/milkmaid.html - The Magnificent Milkmaid ... respond to redneck@detnet.com please ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #931 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.