From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Sep 13 21:11:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA12593 for ; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:11:59 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id UAA06423 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 13 Sep 1998 20:54:54 -0500 Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 20:54:54 -0500 Message-Id: <199809140154.UAA06423@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #945 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, September 13 1998 Volume 01 : Number 945 In this digest: Re: IN> Adam and eve Re: IN> Lying Re: IN> Re: IN- Archangel of Death Re: IN> Lying IN> Request to enter the In Nomine Mailling list. IN> Titanic ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 20:29:58 -0400 From: Brandon Quina Subject: Re: IN> Adam and eve > Ok, i have an idea for a campaign, but what i need is some resolution > regarding one of the basic plots. so i present the following idea to > you in the hope that i can get some positive feedback and suggestions. > Well there it is! Whaddya think! I have to admit that I think its pretty neat. It probally wouldnt fit in one of my In Nomine games, but its still very very cool :) All in all, I think its a neat little idea. No idea as to how to get any resolution, though, hopefully someone else can respond... Brandon, ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 02:15:03 +0100 (BST) From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: Re: IN> Lying >I'm not a member of the mailing list, so if someone could reply to me >directly, I'd appreciate it. > >My question regards lying. > >Can angels do it? > >Seraphs, I know, can't (even slightly), but what about the others? Seraphim cannot lie without dissonance. _If using the angelic language_, which you need to be in celestial form for (barring a few in-rules exceptions) then you can't express a lie in it, no. (Diabolic tongue, however, allows all the lies you want.) As to why angels would lie - it might be necessary to mislead demons (there is a war going on) or to cover up evidence of their own activities, or to manipulate humans into a particular belief or course of action. Some angels are far more prone to manipulation (see Elohim, Manipulation, For Use Of), while others (possibly Malakim) might consider that the end justifies the means ("Sure, demon, tell us where the bomb is and we'll let you go in one piece") and others may just use it in social circumstances (a Mercurian hunting for information, for instance - "Yes, I'm from the local travel agents, and I've been sent to tell you about our new holiday offer, and I just need a few details about your lifestyle...") I know that _my_ angelic PCs certainly lie during my game. Tch, tch. :) - --- Maya, Elohite of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 23:43:26 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Archangel of Death On Sat, 12 Sep 1998, Roland Ward wrote: > Well not that I've done much reading up recently, but I seem to remember > the Angel of Death appearing in Vengance sort of a situation - eg not > letting Moses leave Egypt etc. > Maybe Gabriel fits the bill ? Here's what I found in Gustav Davidson's _A Dictionary of Angels, including the fallen ones_ (not an entirely canonical In Nomine resource, but excellent anyway): Rabinnical writings list a number of Angels of Death. These include Adriel, Apollyon-Abaddon, Azrael, Gabriel, Hemah, Kafziel, Kezef, Leviathan, Malach ha-Mavet, Mashhit, Metatron, Sammael (Satan), Yehudiah (Yehudiam), and Yetzer-hara. Christianity gives the job to Michael. Islam gives the job to Azrael and/or Iblis (the Islamic equivalent of Satan). Of course, the list continues _ad nauseum_ for most of a page. > And I asked before but what about Azriel? Can't remember what function > he/she performed, but I know a lot of black cats named Azriel. Perhaps there is _no_ Archangel of Death in In Nomine. Death is a role that various Archangels have played over the millenia. Uriel could have been the Angel of Death that slew the firstborn of the Egyptians. Eli could be the Angel of Death that welcomes the souls of the righteous dead into Heaven. Yves could be the Angel of Death that numbers the days of the life of man. And so forth. Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit my web page. The Gaming Ghetto, at In Nomine: The Last Days, at Walking the Planes, at - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 00:11:40 -0400 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: Re: IN> Lying At 8:33 PM -0400 9/12/98, James H. Foreman wrote: >I'm not a member of the mailing list, so if someone could reply to me >directly, I'd appreciate it. > >My question regards lying. > >Can angels do it? > Sure can. >Seraphs, I know, can't (even slightly), but what about the others? > >I remember reading somewhere that the heavenly language is incapable of >communicating falsehoods. If that's true, then wouldn't angels have a >hell of a time dealing with it? It's true that you can't lie in the Angelic Tongue. I've postulated that directly-translated Angelic prefixes all sentences with "it is true that," or "It is not true that", or "It is my opinion that", as an involuntary undertone to whatever is spoken. So even if you try to say "The Sky is Green" in Angelic, your sentence comes across as "It is not true that the sky is green." On the other hand, angels are fully capable of speaking English, German, French, Navaho, or (at least in my campaigns) Demonic, and all of the latter languages have absolutely no built-in lie preventions, the last one being exceptionally good at it. I'm toying with making Demonic incapable of expressing absolute Truths. "There are no truths, just lesser degrees of falsehood." Certainly your option to they can't, though I don't see much problem with angels lying. It's so much harder to get things done (and completely impossible to obtain and keep Roles) if nobody on your side can lie. Human society's based on hundreds of minor lies, and as you've mentioned, there are many times when it's better to leave a human with a untruth that he can deal with, than a Truth that he'll never accept in a million years. That's what I've always considered the Angelic views on religion to be. Just my thoughts. ===== ><{{"> =================================================== <"}}>< ====== Nana-Yaw "The Fish" Ofori, Freelance Soldier of Heck, presenty serving Simon, Djinn Captain of Greed, the Demon of Comic Book Collections nofori@pop3.utoledo.edu | Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~maltesh maltesh@usa.net | In Nomine: http://members.tripod.com/~maltesh/T317 ===== ><{{"> ============ "Life's a Fish, then you Fry." ======= <"}}>< ====== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 11:18:07 -0300 From: Felipe Pereira Subject: IN> Request to enter the In Nomine Mailling list. I would like to enter the In Nomine Mailing list. I just got the book, and I would like to keep in touch with people that knows more about the game. Thank you for your attention. Felipe W. Pereira a.k.a. Azrael fwp@globalsite.com.br ICQ number: 2192991 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:52:01 EDT From: Endlsskid@aol.com Subject: IN> Titanic Well this is the first time that i've decided to write to the mailing list... I wasnt exactly sure what to write but...well here it is: after seeing the movie Titanic (which I swore i would never do) I reliezed that it is much more than a simple tragic love story. It was a tale of Destiny and Fate and the work of one of one of Yves own.... named Jack Dawson. I figured hes probably a Cherub of Destiny. His mission...make sure that Rose meets her Destiny and not the Fate that the rest of the Titanic members were to met. Why do i think Jacks an angel..well, for starters he wins passage along the ship in a game of cards (getting a full deck....hmm sounds like some intervention on someones part). When Rose is tempted to throw herself off the ship...Jack shows up and rescues her ( I suspect he was using his resonance to find her), and then at the end, before he meets his end, he tells Rose her Destiny (you will survie, move to America, have children and die in bed a happy old woman). And what happens ...well of coarse, everything he predicted!! So I suspect that was a use of the Divine Destiny attunement. But I suspect there was more to Rose's Destiny than Jack let on. After all Yves does run Heaven's library, a source for all knowledge. So therefore, I suspect the ulterior motive for it all was knowledge. The very story of the tragedy and heartache that occured upon the Titanic. And to support this I use the scene where whats-his-name (the man looking for the jewel) talks to Rose's granddaughter and tell her that all this time it was all about his quest for the gem, but now he nows the real story. Those people are just no longer names to him, but actual people who suffered. So Rose's Destiny was to inform the world of the tragedy that was the Titanic. So that all tohse who died where not faceless nobodies you read about in a history book, but live feeling people....just like you and me. Well thanks for the time and space! i would appreciate any comments if there is any... The Endless Kid ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #945 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.