From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Sep 22 03:06:18 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (root@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id DAA26705 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 03:06:17 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id AAA10772 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:54:51 -0500 Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:54:51 -0500 Message-Id: <199809220554.AAA10772@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #953 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, September 22 1998 Volume 01 : Number 953 In this digest: IN> Angles IN> Lilith's status Re: IN> Re: IN-Chior Question Re: IN> Re: angels and demons, killing. Re: IN> Angels' favorite foods Re: IN> Re: IN-Chior Question Re: IN> Lilith's status Re: IN> Quick Shedim question Re: IN> Re: angels and demons, killing. IN> Kyriotate character design Re: IN> Kyriotate character design Re: IN> Kyriotate character design Re: IN> Lilith's status ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 07:49:22 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: IN> Angles You mustn't forget mentioning the Archangle Pythagoras. Hail Eris! All Hail Discordia! :) Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! May you have the knowledge of a sage, and the wisdom of a child. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 02:48:05 EDT From: Samovar3@aol.com Subject: IN> Lilith's status I've been thinking of a phrase from Fall of the Malakim that struck me as interesting and full of possibilites, the one referring to Lilith as an "honorary demon." (pg 18) Since she's technically still human, wouldn't this mean that, like a Soldier, she only makes a disturbance in the Symphony when she spends essence? Following this line of thought would mean that Lilith could injure or kill mortals without the drawbacks that celestials normally have. She may even be "employed" by other superiors to do things quietly. I would guess that Kronos and Yves would be the two who would most likely avail themselves of these services. Perhaps there are cases when both Kronos and Yves ask her to help them with the same mortal. Suppose that, in the next few days, this particular mortal will either achieve his greatest destiny or meet his darkest fate, either of which will happen at a particular conference. Each side knows not only their own outcome, but the outcome of the other as well. Naturally, while both the servitors of Fate and Destiny want to outright win, it is considered more important that the other side doesn't. In doing this, both (independently) contact Lilith. The demons say, "We don't want Joe Bloggs to achieve his brightest destiny, we'll give you . Make sure that the other side doesn't know we're involved. Oh, by the way, if you can, make sure he meets his fate." The angels make a similar request. Lilith smiles and accepts each deal. Instead of actively trying to favor either side, she hits poor old Joe Bloggs with a car and puts him in the hospital with a broken hip. He isn't at the conference and fails to meet either his ultimate fate or destiny with both sides completely ignorant that celestial involvement was active. While many tasks would be beneath Lilith, and she shouldn't be overused in this fashion, she could be the ultimate secret agent in the war between Heaven and Hell. You can blame the inspiration for this idea from a passage I read that had the King of Saudi Arabia declare Queen Elizabeth II an honorary man so she could go certain places within the country. S. Flanigan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 03:55:37 -0400 From: "Matthew D. Gandy" Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN-Chior Question Although there isn't much written about angles in contemporary fiction, there is Wallace Stegner's 1972 Pulitzer Prize-winning novel, _Angle of Repose_, about a lazy 89-degree obtuse angle and his Fall from Grace. :P - --Matthew D. "Demiurge" Schweitzer-Gandy "still looking for the face I had before the world was made" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:07:34 +0100 From: "Hart, Joanna" Subject: Re: IN> Re: angels and demons, killing. >It's not easy, being an Elohite. You have to examine *every* assumption >to see whether it includes bias, and you have to consider the short and >long-term impact of every action. On the other hand, if you really don't have very long to make up your mind, then I suspect that as long as you tried to think things through as best as you could, you wouldn't bite dissonance if you happened to be wrong, misinformed, or other events rushed you into it. This is why it's not as restrictive (IMO) as the fate/ destiny thing. Working out how much time you have to gather information strikes me as being an objective judgement call, so deciding to spend too much time in investigating the possible consequences of an action because you are afraid of making a mistake _is_ dissonant. Sometimes you just have to say, "This plan is desperately flawed here, here and here; I can see potentially crippling consequences there, there and there; however it does seem to be the best we can do based on what we currently know, and better than the other (idiotic) plans which you two proposed -- so get to it." jo ps. From my gaming experiences this weekend, I'd actually say that it's pretty easy to be an elohite, compared to most anything else :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:41:02 -0400 (EDT) From: EEEAMEEH Subject: Re: IN> Angels' favorite foods > >the purer form (the white-chocolate version) may kill them, > > > White?? Heresy! Everyone knows that dark chocolate is the One True Way. Get > that triad round there _now_ > > > > jo Milk chocolate is the supreme form of chocolate, preferably with a touch of mint. Dark chocolate, however, is much better than white. see, no disonance so it must be true. Incidently I suspect that white chocolate is actually a ploy of the infernal ones. Starsurfer, Seraphim of Creation in service to Destiny, Angel of Words ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 14:55:23 EDT From: Akumsa@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN-Chior Question It just seems to me a lot of trouble and dissonance could be avoided for certian angles if they changed chiors. For example, the Mercurian who described falling in the APG... If he changed to a Malakite, he would have constantly been patted on the back for good effort. This might have prevented some angels from falling... Demons shouldnt be able to do this, cause good old luci isnt that strong ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:51:07 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Lilith's status At 2:48 AM -0400 9/21/98, Samovar3@aol.com wrote: >[...] Since she's technically still human, wouldn't this >mean that, like a Soldier, she only makes a disturbance in the Symphony when >she spends essence? Yup. (Or when she decides to manifest, rather than Song of Motioning in from somewhere. That does the standard Superior Manifesting Disturbance.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 98 16:00 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Quick Shedim question >There's plenty of material in the APG and main bood about when and under >what circumstances Kyriotates may access their host's skill-set. But is >it canon that Shedim may /always/ access their host's skills? I would say so, since Shedim are really operating *through* the host's mind, rather than displacing it as Kyriotates do. Or so I recall the basics of Shedite possession.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 98 16:05 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Re: angels and demons, killing. >>It's not easy, being an Elohite. You have to examine *every* assumption >>to see whether it includes bias, and you have to consider the short and >>long-term impact of every action. > >On the other hand, if you really don't have very long to make up your mind, >then I suspect that as long as you tried to think things through as best as >you could, you wouldn't bite dissonance if you happened to be wrong, >misinformed, or other events rushed you into it. If it's clear that inaction would be at least as bad as poorly-informed action, then yes, this would save them, though if the choice they make is subjective, they still lose. >Working out how much time you have to gather information strikes me as being >an objective judgement call, so deciding to spend too much time in >investigating the possible consequences of an action because you are afraid >of making a mistake _is_ dissonant. Yes, fear of being wrong, leading to inaction when action is called for, is clearly more wrong than taking the wrong action, based on an objective analysis of the available data. >ps. From my gaming experiences this weekend, I'd actually say that it's >pretty easy to be an elohite, compared to most anything else :) Yes, but PCs dither from *subjective* concerns, most of the time.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:48:52 -0600 From: Gareth Wood Subject: IN> Kyriotate character design Hi, I can't seem to clarify how to design a kyriotate character. Why would they have Corporeal Forces and the derived Strength/Agility stats when they just use the host body's levels?? Do they have Corporeal Forces? perplexed, Gareth Wood ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:28:49 +1000 From: "Patrick O'Duffy" Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotate character design Gareth Wood wrote: > Hi, > I can't seem to clarify how to design a kyriotate character. Why > would they have Corporeal Forces and the derived Strength/Agility stats > when they just use the host body's levels?? Do they have Corporeal > Forces? Yup. The Kyrio uses its Strength and Agility _instead_ of the host's when occupying a mortal - so you get mothers who can lift cars off their trapped children, inhumanly strong 6-year-old-girls, that sorta thing. I admit to not being sure on the whole Forces deal, though. My take (and this is quite possibly wrong) is that the host's Forces remain the same, even though the stats change (so you have a mortal with only 1 Corp Force channeling Strength /6 and Agility/6). This changes things like Body Hits, but means that some other things (like the effects of Songs) stay the same. I like that way of doing it, but I'm not sure whether that's the norm. > > > perplexed, > > Gareth Wood - -- Patrick O'Duffy, Brisbane, Australia Every now and then when your life gets complicated and the weasels start closing in, the only real cure is to load up on heinous chemicals and then drive like a bastard from Hollywood to Las Vegas. HUNTER S. THOMPSON, "Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 21:14:43 -0400 From: "Thomas J. Ladegard" Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotate character design Ok, as long as we're asking strange Kyriotates questions, how about this: Under the general Kyiotates rules it seems to say that Kyrio's can inhabit any number of hosts whose forces reach a total equal to or less than the Kyrio's, but under the writeup for Michael: "And like others of their choir, they may still inhabit as many Corporeal Forces' worth of hosts and/or vessels as the total amount of their Forces." So, did I miss something in the FAQ/Errata? Or am I reading something wrong? - - Tom ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:21:45 EDT From: Heretic103@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Lilith's status In a message dated 9/21/98 2:01:06 AM Central Daylight Time, Samovar3@aol.com writes: << Following this line of thought would mean that Lilith could injure or kill mortals without the drawbacks that celestials normally have. She may even be "employed" by other superiors to do things quietly. >> I would think violence is a little below her and if she did it would be only for a very hefty sum........ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #953 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.