From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Wed Sep 23 07:01:02 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA21402 for ; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 07:01:02 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id GAA02672 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 06:32:46 -0500 Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 06:32:46 -0500 Message-Id: <199809231132.GAA02672@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #954 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Wednesday, September 23 1998 Volume 01 : Number 954 In this digest: Re: IN> Lilith's status Re: IN> Lilith's status Re: IN> Lilith's status Re: IN> Kyriotate character design IN> Re: IN- Quick Shedim question IN> More Fun with Lilith! IN> Game Quotes Re: IN> More Fun with Lilith! IN> FoTM: 134? Re: IN> More Fun with Lilith! IN> Why is the Archangel of Lightning an Elohite? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 07:30:58 +0100 From: Jo Hart Subject: Re: IN> Lilith's status At 00:21 22/09/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 9/21/98 2:01:06 AM Central Daylight Time, Samovar3@aol.com >writes: > ><< Following this line of thought would mean that Lilith > could injure or kill mortals without the drawbacks that celestials normally > have. She may even be "employed" by other superiors to do things quietly. >> > >I would think violence is a little below her and if she did it would be only >for a very hefty sum........ > > Besieds which, don't they employ mortal soldiers to do that sort of thing? (I thought the whole thing on whether Lilith was (still) human had been filed under canon doubt and uncertainty?) jo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 02:50:08 EDT From: Samovar3@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Lilith's status In a message dated 98-09-22 02:06:32 EDT, Heretic103 wrote: << In a message dated 9/21/98 2:01:06 AM Central Daylight Time, Samovar3@aol.com writes: << Following this line of thought would mean that Lilith could injure or kill mortals without the drawbacks that celestials normally have. She may even be "employed" by other superiors to do things quietly. >> I would think violence is a little below her and if she did it would be only for a very hefty sum........ >> I agree that she wouldn't do this sort of thing often, but my main focus (which may or may not have come across) is that of all the superiors, she can do things quietly that the others can't. Now that ability has to give her some amount of power and degree of influence that sometimes another Prince or Archangel craves. When you add, that by the same reasoning, Lilith is immune to dissonance (as a personal rule, I would like to keep all superiors immune to dissonance, but then the Fall couldn't have happened), she could probably just disappear and hide out from all celestial activity when she feels like it. Also, from her write-up, I get the feeling that she's a creature of whims and if crossed by some unknowing mortal, she could take a rather messy revenge. This could lead to a disturbance from her using a song, but when celestials arrive on the scene, they find a body and are curious about why the disturbance wasn't louder. Expecting a Soldier of Hell and ending up with Lilith would be a very dirty trick that only a vengeful GM would pull, but it theoretically is possible. S. Flanigan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:30:40 -0400 From: neel@cswv.com (Neel Krishnaswami) Subject: Re: IN> Lilith's status Heretic103@aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 9/21/98 2:01:06 AM Central Daylight Time, Samovar3@aol.com >writes: ><< Following this line of thought would mean that Lilith > could injure or kill mortals without the drawbacks that celestials normally > have. She may even be "employed" by other superiors to do things quietly. >> > >I would think violence is a little below her and if she did it would be only >for a very hefty sum.... I like this line. It reminds me of the bit in the Discworld novels where it is mentioned that the Assassin's Guild values life very greatly -- this is why they charge so much. :) - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:01:00 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Kyriotate character design Gareth Wood wrote: > > Hi, > I can't seem to clarify how to design a kyriotate character. Why > would they have Corporeal Forces and the derived Strength/Agility stats > when they just use the host body's levels?? Do they have Corporeal > Forces? To the Kyrio, a host is a vessel... a borrowed vessel, to be sure, but still a vessel. Therefore, they get all their normal Forces and attributes. However, the resilience of the body (which is normally quantified in levels for a celestially-generated body) has to be determined, and that way is the CorpForces of the owner of the body. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2613 MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 21:16:36 EST From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: IN> Re: IN- Quick Shedim question >>There's plenty of material in the APG and main bood about when and under >>what circumstances Kyriotates may access their host's skill-set. But is >>it canon that Shedim may /always/ access their host's skills? > >I would say so, since Shedim are really operating *through* the host's >mind, rather than displacing it as Kyriotates do. Or so I recall the >basics of Shedite possession.... > > >---Walter Most definitely, Walter, IMC those possessed by a Shedim have NO idea that a possession has even taken place, if they do then it only through either a careful analysis (sp?) of how they had been behaving or if an outside agent explains to them the possibility of possession by a Shedite. So, IMC, if a Shedite were confronted (we know that you're a Shedite and you've taken possession of that poor man), the Shedite could choose to either allow their host to react as is to this confrontation (ie, something like "What the hell are you guys talking about?!"), or the Shedit might choose to exert total control over the host (ie "Come and get me you *@#!^n' halo-huggers, I'll eat you alive!!"). As an alternative, the Shedit might manipulate his host into taking an action, for instance, causing his host to be suddenly very, very frightened resulting in him running away at top speed, or the Shedite could start playing with the Host's senses, creating delusions and what-not. That's always fun. :) [then, after the shedite has left the former host, the men in white show up to take him away to the land where the "undesirables" of society go, depending on how dark your campaign is... :) ] I view the resonance of shedite as kind of an ability to meld with its host, and then subtly guide the host, allowing the host to maintain the illusion that it (the host) is still in control. :) - -Perry, Kyriotate of Flowers serving Creation and sometimes Tanniael, Archangel of Tea Perry M. Lloyd (spook_number_six@hotmail.com) "Remember, false hope is still hope." -Dilbert ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 22:31:17 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: IN> More Fun with Lilith! Question: If Lilith is human, would a Mercurian gain dissonance if he was suicidal enough to attempt violence against her? Or is she considered demonic enough for these purposes? My gut instinct says "Yes, she's human." Something to think about though. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 23:02:09 EDT From: Akumsa@aol.com Subject: IN> Game Quotes I recently GM'd a game of In Nomine (I had to, no one else would. Plus I was the only guy with the book, so NATURALLY I HAD to Gm...) Here is some quoteable moments from the game. Simon, Mercurian of Destiny (Played by Greg, who is big on dramatic speech). [Walking thru a forest, trying to sneak away from some of Asmoudeous's hit squads] "The heavens must have sent this mist to help us." [At this point he falls down an hitherfore unoticed drop of about 30ft. Gets up.] "Stupid God- Forsaken Mist!" Azazael, a New to Earth Angel, an Ofanite of Novalis. (played by Steve Bidgood, who is a good roleplayer) "What is this?" [Refering to a gun. He looks down the barrel and pulls the trigger. At this point, Lyshion, a Malakite of Fire (played Joe Brown) says:] "When he gets out of Trauma, I am going to laugh in his face." Lysion facing down 3 Demons. One of the Demons says: "You cant get all of us." Lysion [Who pulls out his Holy Gun and blows the Demon away] "No, but i'll get an A for effort." (Yes, Joe is fond of quoting movies.) Mr. Blinky (Don't ask.), An Impudite of Kobal (played by Mike Sedon, a decent guy, but tends for stupid joke/pranks all the time. He fell in love with playing a servitor of Kobal the second he saw the demon) Rolls d666 and gets a 111... Azram, calabite of Fate (played by Joe Brown) Rolls a d666 and gets 666. This was done in the same turn, as Mr. Blinky was trying to Sneak down a darkend Hospital ward room (With a stripper in town... PLEASE dont ask, as he was in the ICU section as well.) and Azram was attempting to walk softy to avoid the doctors who were looking for him (He planted the Demon's version of the Bible next to someones bed. They were both in the same hall). Stuck for a ruling on this situation (Tis unique, no?) I rule that all of the lights on the strippers dress (Christmas tree lights, DONT ask), Explode at once, causing all of the nearby people to run towards the sound... Slip and fall on thier butts because of the wet floor (Mr. Blinky posed as a Janitor), suffering several injuries themselves. Said Mr. Blinky: "Thank God!" As a post script to the above little run in. One of the Hospital staff was a Elohite of the Game. Who turned in Mr. Blinky... Mike was not happy when he found out he'd be used as a "test" victum in a new joke Kobal himself was planning. In case yer wondering: The adventure I ran had 2 sides to it, one was demonic, the other angelic.... And the two groups were working to outwit each other. Note that the 2 different groups were played by the same people. At the very least, it was an INTERESTING game to play, I got these comments: "How the hell am I supposed to outwit myself?"-Joe "So like I can fight myself if I want to? Cool!"-Mike "Lets see, did we put whats his face on his path to destiny?"-Greg, while he was playing his demon. "What do you mean I dodged the attack?? I just shot myself!"-Joe, when his angel fired off his gun at his demonic character. "I can see why Novalis dosent like those things..."-Steve, after he woke up from Trauma. Laters, Akumsa. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- John T Perkowski, Ofanite of Arcade Games,Maker of Attunements (Challenge me with a word, I guarantee, I get you an attunment for each band or chior in 24 hrs) "People in glass houses might as well answer the door." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 23:15:49 -0400 From: Kim Foster Subject: Re: IN> More Fun with Lilith! At 10:31 PM 9/22/98 EDT, you wrote: >Question: If Lilith is human, would a Mercurian gain dissonance if he was >suicidal enough to attempt violence against her? Or is she considered demonic >enough for these purposes? My gut instinct says "Yes, she's human." Something >to think about though. > > Just to put in a dissenting viewpoint, I'd say Lillith has surrendered her "humanity" for power as demon Princess. The untold amount of Forces wedded to hers on making her deal with Lucifer was most likelyt demonic in nature, she has all the perks and privileges of Demon Princess (Multitasking, vast Essense, Word, the ability to create other Celestials, Lilm..I can't remeber if it says specifically she cannot create other Bands just she chooses not to have pearmenant Servitors). Lillith doesn't have the limits of a human form or Soul, at least as mentioned so far. Does she sleep? Dream? Would she die and her "soul" face judgement if her physical Vessel was destroyed? I'd say she was no longer human in the technical sense. She has been uplifted to a the status of Celestial being, not a Demon as she was never an angel and could not become one, but not a Corporeal Being. Lillith is something unqiue and interesting..... I know violence doesn't solve all problems... But it sure feels good! Felicia:DS3:Vampire Savior ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:38:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Knop Subject: IN> FoTM: 134? This is my fourth try in the last four days to send this... it didn't show up before. I'm sorta hoping that whatever glitch was causing my posts not to show up on the List is fixed, but we shall see. I finally acquired (and have mostly read) FotM. I like LA as a setting; before that, the only "cannon" sample setting we had was Austin, which was a little too "happy fuzzy friendly" (and admittedly atypical) to be the only example out there. LA is more grim, and together with Austin the two make a nice contrast. The driving rules seem reasonable, although a few didn't exactly pass some reality tests based on my experience taking scads of people to LAX from Pasadena both before and after the completion of the 105. Close enough for government work, however. (And if the forces of Heaven and Hell aren't government, I don't know what is.) One question though: What happened to the 134!?!?!? This freeway connects the end of 101 to where I-210 makes that sharp right turn in the Pasadena section. It's a perfectly good freeway, 3-4 lanes on each side... I used to drive on it all the time. - -Rob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 00:17:02 -0400 From: "Matthew D. Gandy" Subject: Re: IN> More Fun with Lilith! I would agree with the viewpoint that she is not human. I would also agree with the viewpoint that she is not a celestial. She is somewhere in between, as she was *made* (not born) human, but before the whole Eden incident got everyone mortal lifespans. So she's an immortal human who is offered the Word of Freedom by Lucifer, as well as protection from Heavenly retribution. Definitely extra Forces involved, which elevates her above mortals, but since she is not wholy "remade" as a celestial, she isn't your average Demon Princess either... Which gives me an idea for a very interesting plot seed: what if someone became aware of the true nature of the Symphony, understood enough about the War to understand about Archangels and Demon Princes (especially Lilith), and decided to make a deal with the forces of Hell, not for the usual package of limited immortality as a Mummy...but for a Word and elevation to Demon Prince? It's striking enough that Lucifer might even go for it, just once. Now *there's* a tale to scare angels and demons alike... - --Matthew D. "Demiurge" Schweitzer-Gandy "still looking for the face I had before the world was made" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:30:39 +0100 From: Sam Kington Subject: IN> Why is the Archangel of Lightning an Elohite? Hi, Since the advent of electricity, it makes sense for technology to be overseen by the Archangel of Lightning. It also makes sense for whoever is the patron saint of scientists to be an Elohite. What I don't get, though, is why the Archangel of Lightning was an Elohite *before* - surely an Ofanite would be better suited? And, for that matter, what did Jean do before electricity? Gabriel is in charge of inspiration, so that doesn't leave a lot of metaphorical Lightning left. Any ideas? Sam - -- INWO Homebrew: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/inwo/ More of my stuff: http://www.illuminated.co.uk/ Not my employer's opinion, no snappy quote ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #954 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.