From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Sep 28 21:33:15 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA32754 for ; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:33:15 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id VAA21637 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:13:50 -0500 Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:13:50 -0500 Message-Id: <199809290213.VAA21637@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #959 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, September 28 1998 Volume 01 : Number 959 In this digest: Re: IN> Re: IN- Lilith's status Re: IN> Fantasy Island - A Tether? Re: IN> Angels and food IN> The Final Trumpet - Mild Spoiler Warning Re: IN> The Final Trumpet - Mild Spoiler Warning IN> The Fifth Trumpet Re: IN> Angels and food Re: IN> Angels and food Re: IN> Angels and food RE: IN> Angels and food Re: IN> Fantasy Island - A Tether? Re: IN> Lilith's status Re: IN> Re: IN- Lilith's status Re: IN> The Final Trumpet - Mild Spoiler Warning IN> New Idea IN> Some questions about In Nomine. Re: IN> Some questions about In Nomine. IN> Hurricane Georges and Janus Re: IN> More Fun with Lilith! Re: IN> Some questions about In Nomine. IN> Six-String Samurai ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 00:43:47 EDT From: CaelinR@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Lilith's status In a message dated 9/27/98 11:03:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, spook_number_six@hotmail.com writes: << Okay, what's CDaU mean? Caught Doing a U-turn? Eh? >> Areas of rigidly defined "Cannon Doubt and Uncertainty;" a term used to define something that the official answer to is, more or less, "We won't touch this one with a ten-foot pole." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 00:49:15 EDT From: CaelinR@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Fantasy Island - A Tether? In a message dated 9/27/98 12:53:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mr9767a@american.edu writes: << Cupid wasn't bad, either, and also could be bent into some interesting ideas. Imagine a Mercurian of Flowers or possibly dreams going forth to ensure that lovers met and had their true loves, with just enough attitude to fend off the arrogant jackasses who mess with people. "You ever see the show Fame? Well, much like Kirby Collins, I'm going to live forever. And I'm a frustrated Taxidermist, so it would send a thrill through my pleasure glands to go deep on you and carve you into Poncho's for the kids >> Kinda risky for a Mercurian o' Flowers... Harming a human would give 'em dissonance coming and going. Better pray they never call the bluff. I say Mercurian of Yves is a better choice: finding your true love isn't a guarantee of destiny, but it's pretty often a big step closer... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 01:12:22 EDT From: CaelinR@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Angels and food In a message dated 9/23/98 7:03:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rward@cqm.co.uk writes: << Personally speaking I always get my angels to eat Ice Cream, usually of the Vanilla or Cotted Cream variety. Pure, Not to fattening, and doesn't spoil the appetite. As for a main corse - fish of course! (with some bread) Oh and apple pie (specially if its home-cooked) :-) >> Aside from the obvious (angel food cake, Deviled Eggs, Devil's-food cookies) I think we cann make some notes here by choir/band Elohim probably don't eat under most circumstances (above anything that might possibly be required for vessle mantenance, and then only healthy, low-fat tofu/vitamin health junk) and might take dissonance if they paused in their duties for something as selfish as a tasty meal. Seraphim might consider themselves above such human concerns. When they eat, they do probably tend towards bland, single-flavored food. No condiments to conceal the flavor. Kyriotates may just ignore hunger. Let their hosts deal with it on their own time! Mercuriansre probably almost as varied as humans in their tastes. Malakim: You wish to discuss *food* when there is evil to fight? Calabim have got to be big fans of high fat, chost cardiac-arrest inducing food, and spicy, indigestion-and-acid causing meals. Shedim probably stick with whatever their eats, except for forcing Vegitarians to eat meat... Lilim become food critics that can make or break fancier resteraunts, as an oppertunity to do favors. Habbalah are probably impulsive, prone to wild swings of fancy, pickles, icecream and watermellon. Balseraph: Just love your cooking, darling! Masterful, simply masterful! No, really, I couldn't eat another bite.. Dijinn couldn't care less. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 00:36:24 -0500 From: Eeyore Subject: IN> The Final Trumpet - Mild Spoiler Warning I'm Not sure exactly how I feel about The Final Trumpet; in a number of ways, it's better than Fall of the Malakim. It doesn't seem to me to have nearly as many holes as the latter book, though there are still some. But much of the adventure doesn't reach out and grab me. There are a few small things that bug me enough to derail the whole thing. And then there is one major problem, the write-up of Khalid, that leaves a bad taste that infects the whole book. I'll deal with that one last. Of the four extended write-ups of previously published Superiors, three of them are very, very good. For Michael, Baal and Malphas, we get good, detailed histories and examinations of their personalities that are insightful. The relationship of Michael and Baal, to each other and their Words, is very well handled. The depiction of Malphas is very chilling, probably moreso than any other Demon Prince to date. The sentence "Nobody matters to Malphas except Malphas...nobody truly exists to Malphas except Malphas" sums him up well, and the rest of the writing fleshes this out. Kudos to the writers of these three. The only thing I'd have liked to see is Baal's thoughts on the idea that once Armageddon happens, he's pretty much out of a job and stuck with an obsolete Word no matter who wins. The Kobal write-up, though, is pretty much what I've come to _not_ like about these features. Very little history. A personality description that's more redundant than enlightening. The description of his feud with Kronos is useful, but that's pretty much it. And, of course, it mentions that damn" special mission" God sent him on before the Fall but providing no more information than that. As I've said before, I dislike setting up these kinds of mysteries and then flaunting them at every opportunity without answers. We know about the "special mission" already; you don't need to keep beating us over the head with the fact that you're leaving this big plot hook out there for you to fill in later. The Magog description is pretty much ho-hum, but it doesn't matter, since he's mostly a throwaway character come the adventure. As I said at the top, the adventure doesn't really grab my interest. The Second Trumpet isn't really an adventure so much as an instance of grabbing the PCs by the ears to give them the first bits of knowledge they'll need. It has a nice opportunity to generate some character interaction after they arrive at Khalid's camp and before they head into Teheran, but that's pretty much it. This adventure also has an anooying distraction: the name of one of the key NPCs is Mohammed Pahlavi. "Pahlavi" was the name of the shahs of Iran, but this is never acknowledged in the adventure. It's like having an NPC in an adventure named "Hohenzollern" and never commenting on it. The Third Trumpet just doesn't come off as an interesting adventure. I leave it at that, except to point out the the geography of the adventure is hopelessly screwed up. Refugees aren't going to walk from somewhere in West Africa to Sudan to try to escape. Not only is it at least 1000 miles, depending upon how far east you're willing to let "West Africa" drift, you'd have to cross the desert to get there. And that Portuguese slavers were invading the area suggests that this place is closer to the coast, hence more like 1500-2000 miles from Sudan. Refugees are far more likely to go south, or simply redistribute around West Africa. And even if they did make it that far east, no one is going to station troops in the Nile valley to keep them out or from returning. The Nile is on the eastern side of Sudan; you'd just be blocking access to Eritrea and Ethiopia. The Fourth Trumpet is a nifty little adventure, or perhaps a nifty big adventure. There are a lot of nice bits in here and the misdirection ploy that constitutes a large chunk of it is well done. I like this bit, and even if you don't run the series of linked adventures, you can probably figure out a way to pull it out of the background here and run it on its own. The Fifth Trumpet is a complete bit of filler. The PCs really can't be involved unless the GM does contortions or has them play the Superiors. I also think that we ought to get some expanation for why Fleurity, Andrealphus and Lilith, the three most strongly moderate DPs changed their minds. This isn't even glossed over; it's just stated that everyone votes for Armageddon. This is one of those places where my suspension of disbelief needs some shoring up or I just can't buy the premise of the adventure. The Sixth Trumpet, again, just doesn't interest me. It doesn't have the glaring flaws of the Third, but I mostly shrug my shoulders. As a sidebar points out, you can pretty much take it as a given that at any time you'll have something you can define as war on all continents, except Antarctica. And rather than the plot laid out to get that seventh fight going, I'd have an easier buying that Servitors of Jordi can get rival colonies of penguins going after each other. The speculations of what might have happened had both armies turned out actually has the idea that just might make the concept of this adventure hold together for me. See, I've never really bought into Kobal's motivation for all of this. Sure, it's funny to trick everyone to go to War, but then the jokes stop. He'd have to be a lot more bored and jaded than I've pictured him up to this point. But if he was clued in to the idea that Marc and Lilith would be chosen as the Champions and cut a deal to stop the whole thing, now that would be funny. What if everybody came and they didn't have a war? to turn an old question around. A lot of folks would look pretty foolish and it would even be worth having made some enemies along the way. Eli, give that man a bagel. The Virtue and the Temptress section wasn't satisfying at all. I simply can't buy angels making it in and out of the Lower Hells to free Maximilien. Even demonic PCs would be a stretch, considering the extent to which it is emphasized that no one but DPs make that journey and return. And the adventure still doesn't explain why Malphas left Mira alive at all. He doesn't seem to have had any use for her at all and carries her around wherever he goes and then and then forgets to pick her up after letting her run around. This provides an essential piece of information for the PCs. So, in all, most of the adventure is sub-par. One bit of it is worth lifting out of this context, but the rest aren't. Admittedly, this is part an aesthetic reaction on my part to Trumpets 3 & 5, so they may work better for others.\ And Khalid. I should say right off that while I'm not a believer in any religion, there are a number of things about Islam that I find attractive. Also, I have a number of friends who are Muslims. The presentation of the Archangel of Faith was a disappointment, but not a surprising one. I'm really uncomfortable with the fact that Khalid is identified with the most fanatical parts of Islamic believers. It's not entirely implausible that this would be so, but I think it was the wrong direction. IN has basically left itself just the one opportunity to have a representative of Islam and it should have taken a broader approach to it. This was the easy answer, to pander to preconceived American notions of Islam. There is a long strain of Islamic thought that is quite a bit more liberal than that which Khalid represents, but none of this gets mentioned here. I think there would be a fine storyline that can be done around Khalid's wavering, but it would be built around the struggle(s) within Islam. I even think Iran would be a fine setting for it. The ideological struggle between Ayhatollah Ali Khameini, the supreme spiritual commander and Ayhatollah Mohamed Khatami, the President, makes a fine background. But what we have I don't like. It's as if Laurence's backing Catholicsim linked him to the IRA. There are a number of passages that betray a certain lack of familiarty on the part of the authors with Islam. The most obvious of these is the third rite listed for Servitors of Faith: "Inspire faith in the symbol of something holy (a miraculous relic, a crescent, the Easter Bunny)." This is idolatry, and Islam is just as opposed to this as Judaism. Khalid would never offer a rite like this, even without that gratuitous and ridiculous addition of the Easter Bunny. To suggest that he, a major patron and firm believer in Islam, would is not only incorrect, but offensive. It is the capstone of a write-up that sours me on the entirety of the product. I wouldn't have thought it was great regardless, but this put it over the top. _Please_ do more research on topics like this before publication. J. Michael Neal ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:39:54 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> The Final Trumpet - Mild Spoiler Warning On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Eeyore wrote: > The Third Trumpet just doesn't come off as an interesting adventure. I > leave it at that, except to point out the the geography of the adventure > is hopelessly screwed up. Refugees aren't going to walk from somewhere > in West Africa to Sudan to try to escape. Not only is it at least 1000 > miles, depending upon how far east you're willing to let "West Africa" > drift, you'd have to cross the desert to get there. And that Portuguese > slavers were invading the area suggests that this place is closer to the > coast, hence more like 1500-2000 miles from Sudan. Refugees are far > more likely to go south, or simply redistribute around West Africa. And > even if they did make it that far east, no one is going to station > troops in the Nile valley to keep them out or from returning. The Nile > is on the eastern side of Sudan; you'd just be blocking access to > Eritrea and Ethiopia. There's also the fact that there's been a civil war in southern Sudan for twenty years or so - I don't think refugees would seek shelter in such a place. Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! May you have the knowledge of a sage, and the wisdom of a child. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 04:13:59 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> The Fifth Trumpet Spoiler: >>>Can someone explain to me why the Princes and Princesses voted unanimously for Armageddon? Explanations were given for the angels, but none were given for the demons (space limitations I would guess). I can't see Andrealphus or Lilith voting for it, no matter what threats are brought against them.<<< I think you underestimate the kind of threats that can be brought against them... (Baal: "It _will_ be a unanimous vote. The only question is whether you'll be one of the voters....") - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:36:26 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Angels and food On Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 01:12:22AM -0400, CaelinR@aol.com wrote: > Aside from the obvious (angel food cake, Deviled Eggs, Devil's-food cookies) > I think we cann make some notes here by choir/band > > Elohim probably don't eat under most circumstances (above anything that might > possibly be required for vessle mantenance, and then only healthy, low-fat > tofu/vitamin health junk) and might take dissonance if they paused in their > duties for something as selfish as a tasty meal. In order to appear credibly human, it's necessary to eat in situations where other people would eat. And it might be necessary to get some research done first. Eating food may well _be_ part of their duties. Also, a consideration for Servitors of Flowers and Creation is that eating food is a celebration of God's creation. > Seraphim might consider themselves above such human concerns. When they eat, > they do probably tend towards bland, single-flavored food. No condiments to > conceal the flavor. Bland and single-flavoured? It's an interesting definition of bland, I'll admit. > Kyriotates may just ignore hunger. Let their hosts deal with it on their own > time! I'd say Kyriotates would be very interested in experiencing lots of different types of food. > Lilim become food critics that can make or break fancier resteraunts, as an > oppertunity to do favors. Interesting. > Habbalah are probably impulsive, prone to wild swings of fancy, pickles, > icecream and watermellon. I assume that Habbalah have strong opinions on what foodstuffs are worthy of being eaten "I don't like anything with cheese, or tomato, or sweet 'n' sour sauce", which they apply inconsistently and with a tone of self righteousness. I also assume that Servitors of Flowers are likely to be vegetarians, because eating meat encourages violence against animals. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "We have been fortunate enough to live to a time when virtue, though it does not triumph, is nevertheless not always tormented by attack dogs." Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the Gulag Archipelago. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:15:40 +0200 (DFT) From: Anders Gabrielsson Subject: Re: IN> Angels and food On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Kevin Walsh wrote: > On Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 01:12:22AM -0400, CaelinR@aol.com wrote: > > > Kyriotates may just ignore hunger. Let their hosts deal with it on their own > > time! > > I'd say Kyriotates would be very interested in experiencing lots of > different types of food. Kyrios also have to take care of their borrowed vessels - leaving some poor human starved half to deat is certainly leaving it in a worse conditions than you found it, IMO. > I also assume that Servitors of Flowers are likely to be vegetarians, > because eating meat encourages violence against animals. Why would that be for Flowers? I'd rather think this to happen among Servitors of Animals, especially if the meat comes from "meat factories". Some of them are probably more favourable of eating something that's been hunted rather than just raised to be slaughtered, depending on how anti-human they are. Anders Gabrielsson anders@stp.ling.uu.se The contents of this message belong to me and nobody else. So there! May you have the knowledge of a sage, and the wisdom of a child. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:27:28 +0100 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Angels and food On Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 12:15:40PM +0200, Anders Gabrielsson wrote: > > I'd say Kyriotates would be very interested in experiencing lots of > > different types of food. > > Kyrios also have to take care of their borrowed vessels - leaving some > poor human starved half to deat is certainly leaving it in a worse > conditions than you found it, IMO. > I believe it says somewhere that hosts, like Vessels, don't need food maintenance. I'm not entirely sure how this works. > > I also assume that Servitors of Flowers are likely to be vegetarians, > > because eating meat encourages violence against animals. > > Why would that be for Flowers? Because they're not supposed to encourage violence in general, and meat eating necessitates some degree of violence to the animals, so I can't see them being too enamoured of it. I'd rather think this to happen among > Servitors of Animals, especially if the meat comes from "meat factories". > Some of them are probably more favourable of eating something that's been > hunted rather than just raised to be slaughtered, depending on how > anti-human they are. > I assume few to none of them would have a problem with eating hunted meat, but farmed meat may be a different story. - -- "We have been fortunate enough to live to a time when virtue, though it does not triumph, is nevertheless not always tormented by attack dogs." Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the Gulag Archipelago. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 07:04:50 -0400 From: "Matthew Stein" Subject: RE: IN> Angels and food I think that you forgot Impudites. I bet the Impudite way is more, "I'll help you cook," than "I'll eat." Impudites probably don't care what they eat so long as they can get close enough to steal some essence. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com [mailto:owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com]On Behalf Of CaelinR@aol.com Sent: Monday, September 28, 1998 1:12 AM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: Re: IN> Angels and food In a message dated 9/23/98 7:03:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rward@cqm.co.uk writes: << Personally speaking I always get my angels to eat Ice Cream, usually of the Vanilla or Cotted Cream variety. Pure, Not to fattening, and doesn't spoil the appetite. As for a main corse - fish of course! (with some bread) Oh and apple pie (specially if its home-cooked) :-) >> Aside from the obvious (angel food cake, Deviled Eggs, Devil's-food cookies) I think we cann make some notes here by choir/band Elohim probably don't eat under most circumstances (above anything that might possibly be required for vessle mantenance, and then only healthy, low-fat tofu/vitamin health junk) and might take dissonance if they paused in their duties for something as selfish as a tasty meal. Seraphim might consider themselves above such human concerns. When they eat, they do probably tend towards bland, single-flavored food. No condiments to conceal the flavor. Kyriotates may just ignore hunger. Let their hosts deal with it on their own time! Mercuriansre probably almost as varied as humans in their tastes. Malakim: You wish to discuss *food* when there is evil to fight? Calabim have got to be big fans of high fat, chost cardiac-arrest inducing food, and spicy, indigestion-and-acid causing meals. Shedim probably stick with whatever their eats, except for forcing Vegitarians to eat meat... Lilim become food critics that can make or break fancier resteraunts, as an oppertunity to do favors. Habbalah are probably impulsive, prone to wild swings of fancy, pickles, icecream and watermellon. Balseraph: Just love your cooking, darling! Masterful, simply masterful! No, really, I couldn't eat another bite.. Dijinn couldn't care less. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 07:48:24 -0400 From: Nana Yaw Ofori Subject: Re: IN> Fantasy Island - A Tether? At 12:11 AM -0400 9/27/98, Akumsa@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 9/26/98 11:49:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gantr@NKU.EDU >writes: > ><< My, but this list has been dead...>> > >We were all to busy fighting angels/demons io.com's having various mailing list problems. Both this and the GURPS list have been missing digests and messages, though they seem to get to the FTP site allright. > > > > Mr. Roarke is the Seneschal, an Elohite of Creation in service to either > Destiny or Fire (or, perhaps, he serves both). >> > >Elhoite? A. Too manupiulative, and he expresses too much joy in what he does. >B. He DID show emotion more than once (Once in the ice cave, he was ouright >appaled/mad at the guys suggection that he didnt fulfill his fantasy, soon >after, walking thru the restaraunt) Elohim are /extremely/ manipulative. Just not selfishly manipulative. Their resonance is geared directly towards knwing what a person's feeling, and, at high check digits, knowing exactly how you'll react in a certain situation. Prime fodder for manipulating the heck out of anyone you meet, especially if it's in the best of the Symphony. As for emotions, Elohim can display them as well. It's not Dissonant for an Elohite to display emotion, it's Dissonant for tem to act from a subjective motive. If, from an objective viewpoint, it's better that they appear to show emotion, they do. Some people respond better to displays of anger than to any logical argument, and Elohim tend to be adept at picking those people out. I think Rourke wokrs pretty well as an Elohite, especially a recently-Redeemed one, rather than a Heaven-born. Unfortunately, circumstances conspire so that I missed 2/3 of the show... ===== ><{{"> =================================================== <"}}>< ====== Nana-Yaw "The Fish" Ofori, Freelance Soldier of Heck, presenty serving Santos, Habbalite Knight of Death, the Demon of Evolution in Action. nofori@pop3.utoledo.edu | Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/~maltesh maltesh@usa.net | In Nomine: http://members.tripod.com/~maltesh/T317 ===== ><{{"> ============ "Life's a Fish, then you Fry." ======= <"}}>< ====== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:50:53 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Lilith's status Julian Breen wrote: > Hmmm. I wouldn't put violence beneath Lilith though. Whatever > suits her mood and purposes I guess. If I'm getting my myths > correct, (Jo? Earl? Em?) she was rumoured to strangle infants > with her lovely long hair... So whats that? Bad PR? ;) Yep. Lilith's myth has three or four layers to it, all but the earliest layer starting in the Middle Ages. In that earliest layer, she is the dark side of sex, and I mean DARK. And sex as both copulation and reproduction. Wet-dreams are her sexual assaults on young men; that's the most innocuous thing she does. Crib-deaths and deaths from childbirth are her attacks on babies and women. Oh, yes, Lilith kills. In the Lilith tale from "The Alphabet of Ben Sira," the second layer of her myth, her wrath against women and babies is explained as revenge because a hundred of her own children are slain by angels every day. This tale is where she first appears as Adam's ex-wife. Bad PR? Always possible, if you like. Actually, in the game I'm in, we've run it the other way. The most recent layer of the Lilith myth is the one that identifies her with the Serpent of Eden. Using that, we've made her a fallen Dragon Queen, and her children, the Lilim, are demon/dragon hybrids. Some add human blood to the mix, or practice particularly humanoid forms, and *these* are the sultry femmes fatales (or, on the masculine side, ladykillers). But, fundamentally, they're monsters. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 98 12:02 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Lilith's status > Okay, what's CDaU mean? ... > Areas of rigidly defined "Cannon Doubt and Uncertainty;" a term used to >define something that the official answer to is, more or less, "We won't touch >this one with a ten-foot pole." More on the order of "We're deliberately leaving this open for the GM." Some of the areas of CDaU are indeed religious hot-spots, like the nature of Jesus in the In Nomine world, but many of them are simply being left for GM expansion, or because the writers and editors think that a large majority of GMs would ignore *any* canon answer, hence it's simpler to leave the matter up to them. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 98 12:07 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> The Final Trumpet - Mild Spoiler Warning >The Kobal write-up, though, is pretty much what I've come to _not_ like >about these features. Very little history. A personality description >that's more redundant than enlightening. The description of his feud >with Kronos is useful, but that's pretty much it. And, of course, it >mentions that damn" special mission" God sent him on before the Fall but >providing no more information than that. As I've said before, I dislike >setting up these kinds of mysteries and then flaunting them at every >opportunity without answers. We know about the "special mission" >already; you don't need to keep beating us over the head with the fact >that you're leaving this big plot hook out there for you to fill in >later. Actually, I believe that particular hook (unlike many others) is supposed to be Canon Doubt and Uncertainty -- i.e., for the GM to decide what they want to do with it. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:58:41 -0300 From: Felipe Pereira Subject: IN> New Idea I didnt like the idea about combat, where the on with higher perception goes aways first and the one with lower perception, goes last. this leaves the demons, (that usually gets lower perception) in the back. Here I the idea that I've developed in my sessions since the first one that I want to share with you. 1 - Everyone tells the GM what they want to do, their actions, songs, etc. 2 - They roll their perceptions and get the digit, and so it starts. If someone fails, then they have a negative check digit. (example: Eric, the ofanim, didn't make his roll and got a 4 in the digit, so he has the "-4" digit). Everyone keeps in mind what are their numbers. Same for the ones that wants to meve, but they roll their agility. 3 - The GM rolls for the NPCs, and write down the number of each one) 4 - The GM starts calling a countdown from 6 to -6 (minus six). so, the characters that got 6 goes first, then 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, -1, -2, -3, -4, -5, -6. 5 - The idea is that everyone got a chance to go first, but the ones with higher perception still gets a better chance to start first, but there is a chance that even someone with a low perception, starts first in a round. 6 - There is also a rue that I use in the game. the ones that suceeds with a 6 gets an extra action, and the ones that fails with a 6, doesn't get an action at all. Hope you understand the idea, I want the game to be a little bit fair to the everyone. I like the rules in the book too, so please, if you dont like the idea, dont be mad at me, ok? See you all, and may the "forces" be with you, aways. Felipe W. Pereira a.k.a. Azrael fwp@globalsite.com.br ICQ number: 2192991 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:59:14 -0300 From: Felipe Pereira Subject: IN> Some questions about In Nomine. Ok, here are some questions I have about In Nomine that I think you can help me with; so here it goes: 1) Where can I find some stats for the archangels? 2) What happens to an angel if he follows a demon to hell? Does he gets dissonace? Could they use the Ethereal song of tongues? How can they disguise their celestial form? I have got the Idea about this artifact that nasks their true forms, so a Seraph would be seen as a balsheraph, a Mercurian as a Imp., So, what do you think? 3) Where can I find more information about the archangels in the net? 4) I once got in a page that looked like the book IN Nomine, telling about the angels, demons, the dice (D666), can you send me the URL of that page again (I think it is in sjgames, in a subdirectory, but where? Felipe W. Pereira a.k.a. Azrael fwp@globalsite.com.br ICQ number: 2192991 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 98 17:49 EDT From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Some questions about In Nomine. >1) Where can I find some stats for the archangels? There are none in canon (official published material), though I think someone here on the list posted some, along with some rules for Superiors. The mailing list is archived at the SJGames In Nomine web site at: http://www.sjgames.com/ftp/sjgames/in-nomine/digests/ >2) What happens to an angel if he follows a demon to hell? Usually he gets beaten up -- a demon going to Hell is usually going up a Tether (in which case the angel will be in the midst of whatever defenders the Tether has), or he's headed back to his Heart (in which case the angel arrives in one of the most closely-guarded areas of Hell, since Demon Princes don't trust Servitors with their Hearts). > Does he gets >dissonace? Not unless he's an angel of the Sword, and doing it against orders (which I would assume all of Laurence's angels have, or they'd be invading Hell a lot...). Some angels might get dissonant trying to *leave* Hell, though.... > Could they use the Ethereal song of tongues? I seem to recall that Ethereal Songs don't work in the celestial realm (which Hell is part of), but I'm not sure -- my games stay pretty strictly confined to the corporeal realm, so it's not something I've had to worry about. > How can they >disguise their celestial form? As far as I know, there's no way for them to do this, in canon. > I have got the Idea about this artifact that >nasks their true forms, so a Seraph would be seen as a balsheraph, a >Mercurian as a Imp., So, what do you think? It's certainly possible, but there's nothing in canon currently that I know of that will do this, and you probably don't want such artifacts to be common, since they'd probably work the other way around, too. >3) Where can I find more information about the archangels in the net? There's various contributed things (i.e., unofficial stuff contributed by other IN fans) in the In Nomine Collection at http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/ I don't think there's a whole lot of additional material on the archangels, though. Each of the published "Revelations Cycle" books has a longer writeup on a few of the Superiors; this information isn't available on-line, though. >4) I once got in a page that looked like the book IN Nomine, telling about >the angels, demons, the dice (D666), can you send me the URL of that page >again (I think it is in sjgames, in a subdirectory, but where? Probably somewhere on: http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine which is the main page for In Nomine at SJGames, but it changes periodically -- there's nothing like that there now. In fact, there isn't much of the rules stuff on-line at all. You may be referring to one of the old In Nomine playtest files, which I believe are gone now. Most of the interesting stuff these days is off of the "Resources" link there: http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/resources.html - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:02:45 -0400 From: "Mischa Krilov" Subject: IN> Hurricane Georges and Janus Needless to say, Georges is definitely a temporary Tether to Janus. Even as I speak, it's down to a tropical storm- but it's been on the move for almosst two weeks, I think. I shudder to think how much raw power runs through these mobile tethers. Needless to say, our most recent addition, an Elohite of Janus, will find some interesting ways to further the word of Wind the next time we play. Has anyone else tied such events into their campaign? Me. _________________________________________________________________ Mischa Krilov "Truth is beautiful, without doubt; but so are lies." -R. W. Emerson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:47:46 -0400 From: "Mischa Krilov" Subject: Re: IN> More Fun with Lilith! > I would agree with the viewpoint that she is not human. I would also agree >with the viewpoint that she is not a celestial. She is somewhere in between, as >she was *made* (not born) human, but before the whole Eden incident got everyone >mortal lifespans. So she's an immortal human who is offered the Word of Freedom by >Lucifer, as well as protection from Heavenly retribution. Definitely extra Forces >involved, which elevates her above mortals, but since she is not wholy "remade" as >a celestial, she isn't your average Demon Princess either... For my first 'real' post to the list, I think that Lilith probably has most of her original Ethereal and Celestial Forces- almost certainly boosted by Lucifer's. With any other infernal Superior, I'd say that some of their Forces came from other souls 'harvested' in their Principality, but Freedom doesn't seem to quite jive with that. Maybe Lilith herself petitioned souls to "volunteer" Forces for her status as Princess. Speaking of the Eden experiment, imagine if Lilith had eaten the fruit of either of the Trees. We don't have much record in human sources, but I'd bet she got her hands on fruit from both the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and the Tree of Immortality. Just as an excercise in discussion of course, what if she'd not eaten of the fruit, like Adam & Eve? > Which gives me an idea for a very interesting plot seed: what if someone >became aware of the true nature of the Symphony, understood enough about the War >to understand about Archangels and Demon Princes (especially Lilith), and decided >to make a deal with the forces of Hell, not for the usual package of limited >immortality as a Mummy...but for a Word and elevation to Demon Prince? To even the balance, what if it happened to Heaven? Obviously, someone would have to have different motives (qv. selfish vs. selfless), but I could believe a human, elevated to Sainthood, moving on to become an angel, then an Archangel. It could happen. It's >striking enough that Lucifer might even go for it, just once. Given Lilith, I'd say he's already done it. I'll have to re-read the section on Sorcery, of course. :) Me. _________________________________________________________________ Mischa Krilov "Truth is beautiful, without doubt; but so are lies." -R. W. Emerson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:37:10 EDT From: Akumsa@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Some questions about In Nomine. In a message dated 9/28/98 5:03:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, fwp@globalsite.com.br writes: << Ok, here are some questions I have about In Nomine that I think you can help me with; so here it goes: 1) Where can I find some stats for the archangels? >> You cant, AA's are too powerful to give stats for. IMC, if an AA wants to do something, he can GENERALLY do it. << 2) What happens to an angel if he follows a demon to hell? Does he gets dissonace? Could they use the Ethereal song of tongues? How can they disguise their celestial form? I have got the Idea about this artifact that nasks their true forms, so a Seraph would be seen as a balsheraph, a Mercurian as a Imp., So, what do you think? >> Nothing. Nope. Yes. Assuming they want to there are many ways, not all angels who decend into hell are necessarily uninvited. Excellent Idea, sounds like a way to run a DECENT INTO HELL campaign. << 3) Where can I find more information about the archangels in the net? >> Look at the INC, there are links there to various pages. The OFFICIAL expansion of the AA's however are in the various books that have been released, like The Marches, Night Music, ect. << 4) I once got in a page that looked like the book IN Nomine, telling about the angels, demons, the dice (D666), can you send me the URL of that page again (I think it is in sjgames, in a subdirectory, but where? >> Sorry, never saw it. << Felipe W. Pereira a.k.a. Azrael fwp@globalsite.com.br ICQ number: 2192991 >> - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- John T Perkowski, Ofanite of Arcade Games Maker of Attunements (Go ahead, Gimme a word and some details, and in 24 hours, you'll get yerself some attunements). "I didn't see who fired that shot, and I got witnesses to prove it." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 19:10:36 -0700 From: state Subject: IN> Six-String Samurai All right, this here movie isn't on a huge release, its a nice smallr un, playing in select theaters across the country. My question is this...for those of you who have seen it (if anyone) what do you think of it as an In Nomine setting? Especially taking into account Redneck Gaijins Dark Victory setting, presuming I remember the title correctly of that correctly... Laters Gators Enosh Malakite of Creation In service to Dark Humor ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #959 ******************************* The material here is (C) 1997 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.