From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sat Jan 2 13:02:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (root@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA07877 for ; Sat, 2 Jan 1999 13:02:22 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) id LAA25517 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sat, 2 Jan 1999 11:37:59 -0600 Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 11:37:59 -0600 Message-Id: <199901021737.LAA25517@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1075 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Saturday, January 2 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1075 In this digest: Re: IN> Liber Canticorum (Can there be spoilers? These might Re: IN> Word Conflict IN> Re: Re: IN> Celestial Interventions Re: IN> Uriel's Crusade - Historical Accuracy Re: IN> Malakim in their place (now Uriel's Crusade) Re: IN> Orphans IN> (Djinn Princess Alert) Re: Bile from the bottom of my belly! Re: IN> Faith Re: IN> Marc's Name Re: IN> Non-canon amusement re the Marches IN> (Djinn Princess Alert) Re: my name is mud! Re: IN> INRI Re: IN> Campaign themes Re: IN> Faith Re: IN> Liber Canticorum (Can there be spoilers? These might IN> List of stuff Re: IN> List of stuff IN> Accept Credit Cards!!! Re: IN> Word Conflict IN> Evaporating Malakim Re: IN> Evaporating Malakim Re: IN> Evaporating Malakim IN> Continued problems with the SJG IN Archives ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 22:03:51 -0500 From: neel@cswv.com (Neel Krishnaswami) Subject: Re: IN> Liber Canticorum (Can there be spoilers? These might Walter Milliken wrote: > >>This is Sean again, striking out from webmail this time. So if I serve >>Andre and tomorrow Uriel comes back and scatters his Forces so far across >>the Symphony only Yves can find any of them I am still considered of Lust, >>still have the dissonance conditions of Andre, etc? > >One strong possibility is that Word-connection (like Song bonuses or even >access) and dissonance conditions are linked to the celestial's Heart. >As long as their Heart is intact, it binds them to the dissonance conditions >of the Superior who made it (normally -- there may be openings for exceptions). >It also bestows whatever benefits might come of being a Servitor of that >Superior, such as Song bonuses. Rites and attunements must be granted >separately, though the Choir/Band attunement normally accompanies the >creation of a Heart. > >Note that this is only proto-canon, and may change, or may never really >make it into the system. I'll beat on it right now: Free Lilim have Lilith's dissonance conditions, and don't have Hearts. Further, in the IPG it notes that Lilith will give any of the Lilim -- even bound ones -- access to her Rites if they accept her dissonance condition. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@alum.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 23:49:58 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Word Conflict At 4:21 PM +0000 12/20/98, Warsinger wrote: >Given that Gabriel has basically been driven mad by her Word conflict with >Belial, and that it seems to be caused by an Archangle and Demon Prince >sharing a Word, would it not make sense for Lucifer to promote say the >Demon Prince of the Sword (or have the Demon Prince of War since I see >Michael as more of a threat really). I dunno... Do you *really* want some loony Calabite/Balseraph running around Hell with sharp pointy objects, followed shortly by a deranged Malakite Archangel with sharp pointy objects? (And your mother told *you* never to run with scissors, right...?) I suspect that for various and sundry reasons, it's better to oppose Words with a Word that is opposite or skew. Your Prince is saner, and more likely to be able to *hurt* his (or her) opposite number. (And yes, I think that Belial is at least *distracted* by sharing a Word, and it is certain that though he hates Gabriel -- she has her own Ofanite of Fire attunement. How the heck does Belial hurt her with the very element they can both twist to their own whim?) (And Gabriel *was* functional up until about Islam...) ...So you get the Prince of the Sword and the Archangel of the Sword hacking at each other in stalemate every time they meet until Michael shows up to lend an axe... Also, unless Lucifer handed out the Word and Princedom *very* quickly, the Archangel has an advantage in experience. The new Prince would be green around the edges, and the Archangel would be scooping up all the Neat Tricks of the Word. Or something like that. Also, I can just see the Seraphim Council smirking and saying, "C'mon, we dare ya. We double-dog dare ya. Make a Prince of Children. Make a Prince of Protection. Make a Prince of Revelations. Go ahead. Make Princes of selfless Words." Okay, so maybe a demon could pervert the Word -- it's still going to be an uphill struggle... >But I can see Lucifer appointing someone to those Words, making them a >Demon Prince in name only I think that making someone a Prince is a sufficient expenditure of power that the Prince would need to be *useful* for more than giving an Archangel a dull nagging headache. Even for Lucifer. (Why, yes, I *am* in a strange mood.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 23:49:57 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Re: At 4:58 PM -0800 12/20/98, David Streeter wrote: >Beth Ranted... Blessed right. >>At 6:19 AM -0800 12/17/98, Martin Arnold wrote: >>>HAVE YOU NO FAITH IN MY APPRECIATION TO ASSUME THAT I WONT BUY THIS >>>BOOK ANYWAY? CAN YOU NOT GIVE ME A STRAIGHT ANSWER? >>Because I *ALREADY* dealt with *all* that fragging stuff once, and > >>Usually distincted. Word-bound to the Tether. Kindly read page 59 of > >Ermm... isn't that "distinguished"? No. Distincted. As in, possessing a Distinction. >>Also, in case you didn't actually *look*, there are *exerpts* at the > >Ermmm... isn't that "excerpts"?? Probably. Mind you, with the keyboard as old as it was... (And now I have a brand *new* keyboard to blame my spelling errors on!) Besides, I've always had "Elizabethian" spelling. >Man, Martin must have REALLY annoyed Beth... two errors in the one post! One. Maybe 1.5, if it says Distincted should be capitalized. At 5:18 PM -0800 12/20/98, Sean McCarthy wrote: > How do you >keep a whole mob of War servitors who want to user your tether as a staging >point for berserker raids on Las Vegas under control? >You say 'No.' >And then you jump up and down, happy that you are a Master of the Armies of >God. (A note for GMs. Immediately upon starting a game, grant yourself the Master of the Armies of God advantage.) - --Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Prince.Beth.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 23:49:53 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Celestial Interventions At 1:37 PM -0400 12/21/98, gantr@NKU.EDU wrote: >On a related note, I have a question about interventions. What happens to >an Outcast angel who rolls a divine intervention? Is it beneficial or >dangerous? It depends on if the angel is heading for leather wings or is still basically on Heaven's Side. To Illustrate. My Renegade-Only-If-They-Catch-Her Lilim was telling the Ofanite of Revelations that, why, yes, she *was* a human Soldier! [1] She rolled Lying. She rolled a 666. There was that *chill* up her back and the GM smiled. The Ofanite believed her. Later, she got hungry. And her resonance wasn't working. And she was tired. And she couldn't spot relics. Before she realized what was going on, really (and before she got an all-expenses-paid express trip to Beleth's side of the Marches in a dreamscape -- and wouldn't *that* have got her in a tizzy), she got a 111 on an attempt at a resonance. She didn't see a need, but she did spot this hitch-hiker by the side of the road who'd shown up once previously in the past. Eli gave her a relic granola bar which cured the hungry and humanity. (And, since she's on the fast track to pretty wings, she now feels she's owing him an unofficial debt. And thus Heaven is served, probably.) Those are, so far, my *only* Interventions -- and they were within an hour of each other. (The GM was annoyed. He *wanted* her to discover she had to sleep and stuff.) [1] Revelations can't keep its mouth shut, and she didn't want the Game to find out that she was hanging out with angels. Even if she *was* serving off a year-Geas to Lightning. And she really really really didn't think she could convince a new-to-Earth Ofanite of Litheroy from running his mouth off to the wrong people. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 23:49:49 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Uriel's Crusade - Historical Accuracy At 4:14 PM -0500 12/21/98, Emily Dresner wrote: >> > It needs to be wholesale chucked and rewritten. >> >> Sounds like you're volunteering. ;) > >Maybe. Not that I would mind sitting down and writing the Crusade, >or at least the Ethereal bits so they made sense and had some sort >of cohesion with reality. Somehow I seriously doubt that I would be >the one doing the rewriting even if it got rewritten, for various sundry >reasons. It would mean that it would have to be historically correct, >and we can't have that. It would buck the trend! :) Em, Em, Em. Don't you know that the squeaky wheel gets chained to the wall while scribes write down her every ramble, and pass it on to the High Priestesses who add in a few more comments and Illuminations, and then it goes to the Initiates to clean up so that it is suitable for the Masses. Or don't you remember the APG errata? - ---arcangel@io.com http://www.io.com/~arcangel Hitherby says "Injustice is not bad. The world was not made to be just. God is arbitrary and unfair, and this is part of his plan. However, those of us who don't have to design universal ecosystems should try and be nice. :)" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 23:49:48 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Malakim in their place (now Uriel's Crusade) At 4:03 AM +0000 12/22/98, Ramesh Satkurunath wrote: >Nick Jost wrote on 21 December 1998 19:40 >In game terms it could be justified because: > >>1.) The etherals, though it is CDaU, are lying. There claiming a special >>knowledge that belongs to God. > >Maybe in the eyes of the law ignorance is not an excuse but in mine it is. >The ethereals probably believed that they were right - Note, here, that you're arguing from personal viewpoint here. If you want to have that in *your* game, then that's all well and good, but don't blur the distinctions between personal beliefs and canon. If it's in black and white (or electrons in the errata...), then it's canon and you can quote it. (Just check the blessed errata before quoting something I fixed umpteen times already.) If you're using "probably" in an arguement, then you may well have to face that the TRUE ANSWER is "probably" CDaU. Was Uriel a hero or a genocidal loon? Well, that's a good question. Maybe he was both. Maybe he wasn't either one. Maybe he went overboard and was called back for punishment. Maybe he went overboard at the end and was called back to stand in the corner. Maybe he didn't go overboard, but his Word-focus was threatening to split the Council, and the only thing to do was remove the bone of contention. Maybe he'd done enough and God decided to reward him. Maybe he was about to Jump, tainting all the Virtues with his Sin and had to be removed post-haste. Maybe not. Uriel certainly thought he was justified in what he did. Other Archangels will think him justified or not, according to their biases. And if you ask Jean, he'll inquire if you don't have more pressing business than worrying about old history. And then there's Maya's "IN Sliders," where Our Heroes stumble into a universe where everything the demons say about Heaven is *right*... At 2:03 PM -0500 12/22/98, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >One thing to keep in mind is that it's pretty evident Uriel >was designed to be an Archangel on the edge. He is SUPPOSED >to be a controversial figure, so far as I can see, and the >reader is SUPPOSED to feel ambivalent about him. If you >decide he is just plain Bad (or just plain Good, but I haven't >heard that advocated a lot), you don't get the point of the >tale. Maybe you don't get the point of the tale because the >tale wasn't crafted properly, but I still think that was clearly >the point they were trying to make. What Earl said up there. In spades. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 23:49:51 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Orphans At 1:55 PM -0500 12/21/98, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >I don't have the Angelic Roleplaying Guide, where this is >probably answered, so: I don't think it is. But then, everyone here knows my opinion of the APG by now. >I know there are Uriel's orphans, the Tsayadim. Are there >other orphans? Probably. Who are they? CDaU, mostly. >Angels of Light See the Liber Castellorum when it is published. (I haven't gotten my copy from the printer, but I did get to see the proof copy when I was down in Austin. It's a *purty* book!) As a teaser for those who don't know... Seneschal of a Tether of Light. *Malakite* Seneschal. Fnord. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 23:49:46 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> (Djinn Princess Alert) Re: Bile from the bottom of my belly! Let's see. Some 300 new email messages in my box. Wheeeeeeeee. At 9:19 AM -0800 12/22/98, Martin Arnold wrote: >My evidence is simply this: once upon a time i asked for information >regarding how London is treated in the upcoming 'Liber Tethers'; Allow me to put this in perspective for you. There are about 30 pages of Tethers Of The World. Scattered among those 30 pages are Tethers of ALL OVER THE WORLD. They are sorted by Superior, NOT location. There are a minimum of 5 Tethers per Superior (3 in detail and then a listing of others, usually with a oneliner explanation when it's not clear) and most are about 10-15. I've already gone through this and the index ought to have not just every Tether by name, but every blessed page number where a *country* is mentioned -- including indirect mentions that took me several hours of Web-searching to discover. So. I have already gone through my loose hardcopy for all this once. (Gotta get the blessed thing bound.) I. Am. Not. Going. To. Do. It. Again. I'm already busy plowing through email, and then I have to get to all the Liber Servitorum submissions that I got over my Xmas vacation. I don't have the blessed time or energy to do *both*. When the blessed thing comes out, you get to look in the blessed index and then you can look up every blessed page reference you can find to London. They *ought* to be there, and if they're not, I will be very annoyed and make errata. And if you find Tethers there that you don't want, then by all means don't use them. Don't use *any* of the London Tethers. It's only 30 pages of Tethers, and they're not all in London anyway. Use other Tethers. Discard that whole bit of the book and see if the adventure seeds and/or the guidelines on creating and staffing Tethers are useful. Use an X-acto blade if you wish after you buy it. Or don't buy the thing. And if your retailer won't let you open up shrinkwrap or some stupidity, tell them the Line Editor of In Nomine said that it's part of the rules that you get to flip through the book before buying it. (Of course, if you mess it up, you have to buy it, but hey.) Then look up another retailer who *will* let you preview it without being an idiot about it. If you need to get an actual signed statement to that effect, send me some private email and we can figure out if a SASE is needed or what. >Of course the party line would have been 'subscribe to Pyramid (ie a >magazine from what i have seen has little more than two or three pages >of relevamnt material each issue for me) Every week, there's two articles, and it's some $15 or so a year, off the top of my head. And you get to playtest stuff which not only gets you the material, but may get your name in print and a free book if your comments are very helpful. >Sorry not good enough - my pennies pay your wages mister! That's ma'am. Or Princess. Not mister. At least get my gender right, because my husband will be very surprised if I'm a male. >So if we are forced to accept John Doe's version of how IN is played (ie >Canon) each time we buy a book then that doth suck AND blow! If you don't want to play by canon, then don't. Do you see me taking Em to task for the Cult of Uriel? No. You see me threatening to chain her to a wall somewhere to ramble about historical stuff to me and some of my Chosen so that I can figure out how to make the Marches cruft coherent with the fewest possible number of outright errata. Like I did with the APG errata. >If i buy the tetherbook - and i will becasue i like IN Buy the blessed thing because you've looked at it and you believe it will be helpful. Don't do it out of Brand Loyalty assuming that just because it's IN we will have magically read your mind and will have every little thing you wanted and have all the Tethers you put in your game exactly right and with cool art to boot. Because you're doomed to disappointment if that's what you expect, and frankly, I'd rather not have the financial graphs distorted by that. I'd like to know, "Hey, this is selling because it's *good*." If you're scraping up pennies, then make them count. Don't buy stuff that you don't like. Don't buy stuff that you don't think is fun. >If we all did that, SJG would certainly feel the pinch and IN would >disappear commercially. If IN can't produce enjoyable games, then it deserves to disappear commercially. This is one reason why I like to spend my time trying my blessedest to make things that are consistant and useful and do not fall prey to some of the early pit traps of initial material. And, as another tip -- sometimes I'm answering things very *briefly*, because I want my inbox to clear out. And brief answers don't involve spending a good hour combing through and trying to spot every reference to London in my hardcopy. They might well involve saying, "Before you set your canon in stone, be aware that there's going to be a canon book coming out pretty soon, and you may (or may not) want to take that into consideration." I'm not paid to answer email, especially when the email is asking for information that is potentially salable material. My job description doesn't include handing out Everything Each Individual Fan Wants To Know, Sorted By Interest. I mean, if you want to *pay* me for this, sure, I'll do that. $20 check per book I have to consult ($25 if I have to look in the main book) and when it clears the bank, you'll get your email. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 23:49:44 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Faith At 7:23 PM -0500 12/22/98, Casca wrote: >A hybrid stat like Charisma or Toughness, Faith is bought like a skill, [...] >At GM whim, this stat might be bought by soldiers of Hell. Where the GM may choose to call it "Attitude" (or even Bad Attitude)? O;> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 23:49:55 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Marc's Name At 2:22 AM +0000 12/21/98, Ramesh Satkurunath wrote: >Marc = "Follower of Mars; the Warrior" > >Erm, how does this fit Marc's nature? Weapons dealer. emccoy@nh.ultranet.com, Uppity Wynch http://brie.bmsc.washington.edu/people/merritt/books/Eye_of_Argon.html "rumoured to contain hoards of plunder, and many young wenches" Mike [falsetto]: "We're tired of these degrading patriachical slurs! From now on we demand to be called 'wynchys.'" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 23:49:40 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Non-canon amusement re the Marches At 6:28 PM -0600 12/26/98, Uncle Wolf wrote: >Maya, it is NOT healthy for mortals to laugh that long or hard; I hereby >do order you [snicker] to cease and desist. *g* (Hssst, Maya, if you *stop* doing stuff like that, I will be *very* upset!) And a Hoppy Newt Year to you, too! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 23:49:43 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> (Djinn Princess Alert) Re: my name is mud! At 2:23 AM -0800 12/23/98, Martin Arnold wrote: >Let me defend myself against those who've misunderstood me.. > >"So, what you're saying is that you want the information when you want >it, and you don't want to have to wait for the book to be published or >to pay for it." > >In short; no! I DONT exoect a free ride. What i expect is the people on >this list who write the books to tell me if i'm wasting my money on >their hard work. Okay, let's reverse this. Tell me what you've already put in London, in about a screen of text or less, and I'll tell you which ones I remember being around. Currently, the only one that comes to mind is Marc's stockmarket thingy and the Plague Pit adventure seed. >The quality of that work is not the issue here either, >i might add. Can they be honest and tell me that the tetherbook is going >to be worth my while without being coy? Actually, no. Because I haven't got a clue what you consider to be worth your while. I'm not a Seraph, I'm not an Elohite, and I'm not an mind reader. >Will it cobntradict all the hard >work IVE done for MY game if a buy it (ie a waste of money)? Damned if I know. Put all your hard work up on the web and provide a URL. Then I can scan it when I have some free time and inclination and tell you. Alternatively, wait another month or whenever and flip through the copy and find out for yourself. >"And you complain that the option they're given you to get an advance >look at the material, the Pyramid playtest files isn't worth your money. >Those of us who pony up our $15 a year disagree." > >Would it be so wrong to offer up the playtest material to all of us on >the list. Hell. Yes. The list is archived forever and ever, on the web. Yeah, *you're* not going to just download the playtest version and never buy the one that gets money back to the company. And so is every other netsurfing Balseraph. Playtesting isn't just for any old schmoe. It's for someone who will read the rules on the playtest boards, and then give good, detailed feedback. It's for people who are, frankly, dedicated enough to pay that $15 per year and read the material and comment on it. And when the playtest is over, they *stop* commenting. >Isnt that a good measure of loyalty? I dont intend to >subscribe to Pyramid because it isnt worth it for me - as i explained. Then don't expect me to post material from playtest or go through the printer-copy to dig up your pet project. Unless you're paying me. I'm Lilim enough for that. $20 per book I consult. Cheap at the price. >It's not a qyestionf of a free ride - a good playtest is in everyone's >best interests, why be so coy about it. Because, quite simply, I had more GOOD playtesters than could be fit onto the front page. Sorry, but there's no shortage of playtesters. I am not going to people and begging them to playtest -- I'm bemoaning that we can't use 6-point type to get everyone's name onto the front page of the book, and that there aren't some 25-30 free books available for playtesters. It's hard, to have to skim off the cream of the crop. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 23:49:38 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> INRI At 6:05 PM +0100 12/28/98, A.Brimmer wrote: >Simple and Straightforward. > >Who was Jesus Christ?? Canon Doubt And Uncertainty. Those who know, aren't talking. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 23:49:36 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Campaign themes At 3:25 PM -0500 12/30/98, Walter Milliken wrote: >>I wanted to ask the list members about their own IN campaigns, and what >>themes are presented. [...] >I'm not sure I go as far as thinking about "themes" per se in my >campaign, so my answer may be a little fuzzy.... > >My campaign is fairly close to canon, with the primary theme being, I >suppose, "Exactly what *is* going on here...?" Oh, is *that* what the them is? I thought it was "stay alive and keep Boston safe for angels and humans and only-renegade-if-they-catch-me Lilim"... O;> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 23:49:41 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Faith At 4:19 PM -0500 12/23/98, Casca wrote: >On Wed, 23 Dec 1998, Uncle Wolf wrote: > >> generated *g*]. I _personally_ think I would also allow it as a modifier for >> summoning _some_ Superiours [GM's discretion which Superiours this will >> affect], maybe limiting it to a +1 if the [human] summoner possesses any >> levels of Faith, with no variations for high or low levels of Faith. It's all >> or nothing: does the human have Faith? then they get the +1; if they don't, >> then they don't get the mod. > >I was under the impression that humans, even Soldiers, couldn't summon >Superiors. I even checked through Night Music. Current canon certainly suggests that's the case. At the best, they'd get the -10 modifier... (Mind, I have some future plans, but they're vague.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 23:51:46 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Liber Canticorum (Can there be spoilers? These might At 10:03 PM -0500 1/1/99, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: >Walter Milliken wrote: >>Note that this is only proto-canon, and may change, or may never really >>make it into the system. > >I'll beat on it right now: Free Lilim have Lilith's dissonance conditions, >and don't have Hearts. Further, in the IPG it notes that Lilith will give >any of the Lilim -- even bound ones -- access to her Rites if they accept >her dissonance condition. Lilith is, as usual, a special case. I have generally regarded that trick of hers as something like a modified Geas. But yes, I took that into account when I was coming up with that notion that dissonance conditions and Hearts are connected. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 21:18:15 -0800 From: Greg Jensen Subject: IN> List of stuff I would like to ask if anyone on the list has a comprehensive list of all the various bands, choirs, archangels, and demon princes that have appeared in various IN products. I'm also interested in hearing about other people's new creations online. Greg Jensen http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~gjensen/gregpage.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 01:37:54 -0400 (EDT) From: gantr@NKU.EDU Subject: Re: IN> List of stuff On Fri, 1 Jan 1999, Greg Jensen wrote: > I would like to ask if anyone on the list has a comprehensive list of all > the various bands, choirs, archangels, and demon princes that have appeared > in various IN products. I'm also interested in hearing about other > people's new creations online. Well, here goes. Canonical Stuff first. Oh, be warned: there is a very slim chance of spoilers here, mostly for Night Music and Final Trumpet. CHOIRS Seraphim (IN, pg 93) Cherubim (IN, pg 94) Ofanim (IN, pg 96) Elohim (IN, pg 98) Malakim (IN, pg 99) Bright Lilim (IN, pg 149) Kyriotates (IN, pg 101) Mercurians (IN, pg 103) Menunim (TM, pg 15) ARCHANGELS Blandine, Archangel of Dreams (IN, pg 110) Christopher, Archangel of Children (NM, pg 16) David, Archangel of Stone (IN, pg 112) Dominic, Archangel of Judgement (IN, pg 114) Eli, Archangel of Creation (IN, pg 116) Gabriel, Archangel of Fire (IN, pg 118) Janus, Archangel of the Wind (IN, pg 120) Jean, Archangel of Lightning (IN, pg 122) Jordi, Archangel of Animals (IN, pg 124) Khalid, Archangel of Faith (FT, pg 53) Laurence, Archangel of the Sword (IN, pg 126) Litheroy, Archangel of Revelation (GM Pack, pg 18) Marc, Archangel of Trade (IN, pg 128) Michael, Archangel of War (IN, pg 128) Novalis, Archangel of Flowers (IN, pg 132) Yves, Archangel of Destiny (IN, pg 134) Zadkiel, Archangel of Protection (H&H, pg 42) BANDS OF DEMONS Balseraphs (IN, pg 141) Djinn (IN, pg 142) Calabim (IN, pg 144) Habbalah (IN, pg 145) Lilim (IN, pg 147) Shedim (IN, pg 151) Impudites (IN, pg 153) Pachadim (TM, pg 36) DEMON PRINCES Alaemon, Prince of Secrets (GM Pack, pg 21) Andrealphus, Prince of Lust (IN, pg 159) Asmodeus, Prince of the Game (IN, pg 161) Baal, Prince of the War (IN, pg 162) Beleth, Princess of Nightmares (IN, pg 164) Belial, Prince of Fire (IN, pg 165) Dark Khalid, Prince of Fanaticism (FT, pg 101) [semi-canonical] Fleurity, Prince of Drugs (NM, pg 26) Furfur, Prince of Hardcore (NM, pg 125) Haagenti, Prince of Gluttony (IN, pg 168) Kobal, Prince of Dark Humor (IN, pg 170) Kronos, Prince of Fate (IN, pg 172) Lilith, Princess of Freedom (IN, pg 149) Magog, Prince of Cruelty (FT, pg 57) Malphas, Prince of Factions (IN, pg 174) Mammon, Prince of Greed (H&H, pg 45) Nybbas, Prince of the Media (IN, pg 176) Saminga, Prince of Death (IN, pg 178) Valefor, Prince of Theft (IN, pg 180) Vapula, Prince of Technology (IN, pg 182) Well, well, well. That's quite a list. My own personal stuff includes an Archangel (Uriel) and a Band of demons (the Ha-satanim). I don't know if there is a compiled list of everything that has been created, but the In Nomine Collection would be a good place to look. Richard Gant - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit my web page: Richard Gant's Gaming Ghetto Currently dedicated to In Nomine, Planescape, and Waste World - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 05:52:06 EST From: JToro92692@aol.com Subject: IN> Accept Credit Cards!!! ACCEPT CREDIT CARDS!! PRE-APPROVED APPLICATION Good Credit/Bad Credit/No Credit NO APPLICATION FEES For a Limited Time Only! Regular $195.00 Application Fee Waived For This Offer! Increase Your Business Up To 100% Or More, Just By Accepting Credit Cards! This Means More Customers...More Orders...More Money! We Specialize in Home Based Businesses - Apply Today! Accept Visa, Mastercard, American Express, and Discover! Apply Now by visiting our Online Application Site! We are overwhelmed with Responses... http://www.systemwave.com/merchant/ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * You have been carefully selected to receive the following as a person obviously interested in this subject based upon your previous internet postings, or visits to one of our affiliate web sites. If you have received this message in error, please email system@systemwave.com with the word unsubscribe in the subject. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 09:20:59 -0500 From: Chad and Erin Subject: Re: IN> Word Conflict >I dunno... Do you *really* want some loony Calabite/Balseraph >running around Hell with sharp pointy objects, followed shortly by >a deranged Malakite Archangel with sharp pointy objects? They already do. >I think that making someone a Prince is a sufficient expenditure of >power that the Prince would need to be *useful* for more than giving >an Archangel a dull nagging headache. Even for Lucifer. Lucifer has been known to use any tricks he can to throw off Heaven or jut redirect a little attention why he gets something done elsewhere. He's very moody like that, you know. - -w ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 08:18:32 PST From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Evaporating Malakim I recently read someone's variant on why Malakim don't fall, stating that when they became dissonant enough they simply evaporated into their component forces. I think this is Awesome Beyond Belief, and would promptly incorporate it into my own campaign, but I have a few questions, such as: 1) How does it work from a game perspective? Do the Malakim make dissonance rolls like everyone else, and when they get to where they would fall, they disappear? 2) How does it work from a role playing perspective? What's the effect on the Symphony and on other Malakim? 3) According to the canon, Malakim police each other to the point where they will destroy a Malakite with sufficient discord. If a Malakite with enough discord will disappear anyway, wouldn't this change the focus to encouraging discordant Malakim to repair themselves? 4) Could a Malakite in danger of being captured by Hell evaporate himself by an act of will? This might be especially important to servitors of Michael who can't run away if the situation is too hopeless, but are (like other Malakim) forbidden by oath to be captured by Hell. Janet Anderson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 10:08:22 -0700 (MST) From: Jason Corley Subject: Re: IN> Evaporating Malakim On Sat, 2 Jan 1999, Janet Anderson wrote: > I recently read someone's variant on why Malakim don't fall, stating > that when they became dissonant enough they simply evaporated into their > component forces. I think this is Awesome Beyond Belief, and would > promptly incorporate it into my own campaign, but I have a few > questions, such as: > > 1) How does it work from a game perspective? Do the Malakim make > dissonance rolls like everyone else, and when they get to where they > would fall, they disappear? Yes, that's essentially it. It's the Falling that destroys them, not the dissonance. My idea is that Malakim, as the embodiment of honor, have no 'opposite' in the sense that truth has an opposite in lies and objectivity has an opposite in selfishness. > 2) How does it work from a role playing perspective? So far, all it's done is make the single Malakim player very very paranoid about getting any dissonance at all...which is just like it should be. > What's the effect > on the Symphony and on other Malakim? You can hear it just like Falling. Malakim actually act more or less like they do in canon. > > 3) According to the canon, Malakim police each other to the point where > they will destroy a Malakite with sufficient discord. If a Malakite > with enough discord will disappear anyway, wouldn't this change the > focus to encouraging discordant Malakim to repair themselves? Yes, absolutely. This is the only serious change. Dominic is considered a welcome -rescuer- to the Malakim in trouble, for example. > 4) Could a Malakite in danger of being captured by Hell evaporate > himself by an act of will? This might be especially important to > servitors of Michael who can't run away if the situation is too > hopeless, but are (like other Malakim) forbidden by oath to be captured > by Hell. No. I don't think you can get dissonance just by shutting your eyes and thinking dissonantly. Dissonance is something that happens when you go against your celestial nature in -acting-. No angel has enough will to Fall intentionally just by sitting there and thinking. You have to -do- something. This is also a house rule, since I suppose there's something in the idea that, for example, a Malakim of Flowers might be oathed to never think ill of someone they have just met. Then they might be able to build up enough Dissonance to evaporate. But I'm not sure I'd allow that - - I'd probably say -some- Dissonance got built up but then the oath was sufficiently broken that no more got generated. Don't forget that capturing a Malakim becomes a lot less valuable to Hell if Malakim-evaporation is widely known. Finally, if the Malakim was sworn never to be captured by Hell and he got captured, he -would- get Dissonance, and if it was enough to make him Fall, then poof anyway. Hope this helps. Jason dont talk kitty run kitty run ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 17:22:49 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Evaporating Malakim On Sat, Jan 02, 1999 at 10:08:22AM -0700, Jason Corley wrote: > > What's the effect > > on the Symphony and on other Malakim? > > You can hear it just like Falling. Malakim actually act more or less like > they do in canon. > I don't remember that Falling ever caused disturbance. Where does it say it does? > > 3) According to the canon, Malakim police each other to the point where > > they will destroy a Malakite with sufficient discord. If a Malakite > > with enough discord will disappear anyway, wouldn't this change the > > focus to encouraging discordant Malakim to repair themselves? > > Yes, absolutely. This is the only serious change. Dominic is considered > a welcome -rescuer- to the Malakim in trouble, for example. > I'm not sure about this. After all, a Malakite mightn't Fall while still getting more and more heavily Discordant through converting notes of dissonance to Discord. > Finally, if the Malakim was sworn never to be captured by Hell and he got > captured, he -would- get Dissonance, and if it was enough to make him > Fall, then poof anyway. > I think the reference was to the second Malakite oath, which includes the clause never to surrender to the Forces of Hell. In this oath, I think it's intent that matters. A Malakite hit on the head and bound isn't going to get dissonance. I'm not sure to what extent it acts metaphorically; probably dependent on the individual Malakite. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Warfare is the Tao of deception. Thus although capable, display incapability to them. When committed to employing your forces, feign inactivity. When [your objective] is nearby, make it appear as if distant; when far away, create the illusion of being nearby." -Sun Tzu, the Art of War. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999 10:34:38 -0700 (MST) From: Jason Corley Subject: IN> Continued problems with the SJG IN Archives I'm trying to ego-surf the IN mailing list archives, but when I do a search for my name, it doesn't produce anything I wrote after May 1998. Nor does it find my e-mail address after that point. Can anyone check to see what I'm doing wrong? Jason need those extra firearms rules ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1075 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.