From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Jan 4 14:48:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21418 for ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 14:48:56 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) id OAA05385 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 14:38:55 -0600 Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 14:38:55 -0600 Message-Id: <199901042038.OAA05385@lists.io.com> X-Authentication-Warning: lists.io.com: majordom set sender to owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com using -f From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1078 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, January 4 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1078 In this digest: Re: IN> Death (by Switchblade-Wielding Rabbit) to Telephone Solicitors IN> How Bile Can Win You a FREE Copy of the Liber Castellorum! IN> Smart Quotes IN> In Nomine Computer Games? IN> Liber S. Contest updates... IN> Discord and Rites Re: IN> Pronunciation Guide IN> I have a question about the Liber Servitorum Re: IN> Baphomet und Templars + INRI Re: IN> Faith Re: IN> Re: IN- Word Conflict Re: IN> Death (by Switchblade-Wielding Rabbit) to Telephone Solicitors Re: IN> Re: IN- Liber S. Contest updates... R: IN> Baphomet und Templars + INRI Re: R: IN> Baphomet und Templars + INRI Re: IN> Maya - (WAS: IN Charity Auction playlet) Re: IN> Liber Canticorum (Can there be spoilers? These might Re: R: IN> Baphomet und Templars + INRI Re: IN> Liber Canticorum (Can there be spoilers? These might Re: IN> Liber Canticorum - My pretty new toy! Re: IN> Re: IN- Liber S. Contest updates... Re: IN> Re: IN- Word Conflict Re: IN> Liber S. Contest updates... Re: IN> Discord and Rites Re: IN> I have a question about the Liber Servitorum ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 22:19:12 -0800 From: "B.H." Subject: Re: IN> Death (by Switchblade-Wielding Rabbit) to Telephone Solicitors Jordi's servitor. Is the bunny not nifty? David Edelstein wrote: > > >>>Dude, it's Haagenti. Telephone solicitors are just *gluttons* for > punishment.<<< > > I swear I'm gonna do IN stats for Bun-Bun one of these days... > > -David (if you don't get it, nevermind) - -- Brian A.H. "I am Don Arturo de Los Angeles. I am the greatest reader of all time. I have read over a million books in my lifetime, and their pages flow through my mind like summer days..." Phoenix Clan Purifier*Gaijin*Shugenja*ABC Geeky Shugenja Man*Totoroan L5R(1.1) PX+ S(LA) G++ R Y+ C+ E+ M-- T-- D++ K U+++ L5R(R1.3) GP++ (PR+++ CC++) RP+ GT:! P+ PX/LN+ S++ G+++ R Y+ C++ CG++ U+++ J---- ABC(1.0) PX/ABC++(ic, anyways. =)) S(LA) Y+ A++ D++ BO/OC!N!++++(nosebleed) P+++ U++ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 02:00:55 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> How Bile Can Win You a FREE Copy of the Liber Castellorum! >>>Hmmm, that doesn't sound like me either. Although it didn't stop David Edelstein from discussing the negatives of Martin Arnold!<<< Such as your remarkable ability to continue publically insulting people and then feign wounded indignation that you've been misunderstood when people act insulted? Or your ability to keep harping and harping on your bruised ego, renewing a thread that _would_ have died already if you didn't keep picking at it some more? >>>And I doubt it's just me that'll benefit from your review, or indeed anyone else's! (David shouldn't you be complaining about the release of saleable material here? Just because it's officially released doesn't mean people should be giving it away free now does it?)<<< And this would be an example of why I flamed you for being generally clueless and ranting without cause. But here's an offer, Martin: if you can find ANYONE else on this list who will support you with a credible argument showing that I actually posted ANYTHING that implied, by even a remote stretch, that I would complain about someone posting a review of what they thought of an In Nomine supplement as being "the release of saleable material," I will personally mail you my very own autographed (or not if you prefer not to have my autograph) comp copy of the Liber Castellorum. That's air-mailed, at my expense! All you need to do is prove to me and the list that your bile has the slightest grounding in reality. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 02:17:49 -0500 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Smart Quotes >>>Ummm... anyone can answer this, I don't mind: What are "smart quotes"? and if I don't know what it is do I need to bother with it?<<< Smart Quotes are something Microsoft Word puts in documents when you type quotation marks -- it automatically converts them into opening and closing quotation marks. This looks nifty in a printed document, but the special opening and closing quotations don't translate into ASCII, so they turn all quotation marks into gibberish when you send the document by e-mail. To turn Smart Quotes off, go to Tools|Options, and then choose the Autoformat tab, and at the bottom in the "Replace as you type" box, uncheck "Straight Quotes with 'Smart Quotes'". If you're not using Microsoft Word, you don't need to worry about it. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 02:33:19 EST From: Akumsa@aol.com Subject: IN> In Nomine Computer Games? Its been a while since I posted to the list with more of my useless stuff, but hey... I found myself the other day looking over my computer games wondering how they fit into In Nomine. Obviously stuff like this is either done by Nybas, Jean, Kronos, or Yves. Is this another way the celestials influence us? You be the judge: Apocolypse (with Bruce Willis) Playstation. Plot is paper thin and the game, is passable at best. The hero is constantly scr*wed over by his friends, family and others. Everyone else just wants to kill him. Not worthwhile unles you count the fact the Bruce Willis lent his voice to the game, and did a good job. Also features some cool music done by real bands. What You Learn: Trust no one. Everyone is out to get you. Violence solves everything. Every thing turns out fine in the end, reguardless of the circumstances. Good Points: Bruce Willis. Real Music. Bad Points: Repiticious. Unnecessary Gore. Enemies beg for thier lives and you cant NOT shoot them. Patron Involved: This game REEKS of Nybas. Thief: The Dark Project. PC You are Garret, Master Thief. You were a young pick pocket taken in by the Keepers (A neutral force of master thieves), at a young age and trained to be one of them. You leave thier organization to become you're own man. On the night of you're first major job, you're Fence, Cutty, is kidnapped by the Hammers. You rescuse him only to get involved in defeating the Trickster. In Nomine View: The Hammers: Obviously they are followers of David. They call thier god the Builder, who forged the world from stone with his hands. His most aredent followers carry hammers as a symbol of thier loyalty. They believe in unity, factionalization, and discipline, with Harsh punishments for those who violate ther Tenants. The Trickster: Without a doubt a Demon, who revels in destruction. He has an odd sense of humor though, since some of his servants are twisted creations. Hence he employs Exploding Frogs, as well as Demon servants. Most likely, a calabite servitor of Kobal (twisted, even for one of them) who was lent to Belial because of his destructive nature. The Keepers: Unknown, but thier methods suggest they push people along to thier destiny.... Rather Harshly. They are neutral in all things, which I havent seen In Nomine cover. Metal Gear Solid. A Soldier of God (hey this guy HAS been thru hell and back) is sent to stop terrorists from using a new type of neuclear weapon on innocent people. The In Nomine View: Solid Snake (the hero): A Soldier of God, probably serving Micheal. He relies on stealth to accomplish most of is objectives, but he is an expert when it comes to fighting. He disobeys a lot of orders, so serving Laurence is out of the question. He almost has the Honor of a Malakite. Liquid Snake (the MAIN bad guy): A Soldier of Hell, DEFINATLY serving Baal. He has little honor, and is doing this whole thing out of revenge. However, he is a good commander and shows an odd streak of concern for the men under his command. He is phsyically identical to Solid Snake. They might have been born twins. One embracing Dark, the other, Light. Solid Snake may be trying to rescue his brother from damnation. Vulcan Raven: A Soldier of Hell with a high strength. He IS honorable to a fault. He believes and trusts the Boss (Liquid), and is an expert in heavy wepons. He cares little for collateral damage. Sniper Wolf: A b*tch serving Lilith indirectly. She has no extra force and a HIGH perception. She cares little for anyone save herself, no honor, no class, no dignity. Still, you feel for her in the end. (see Otacon) Decoy Ocopus: Servitor of Kronos with the song of forms VERY HIGH. Psyco Mantis: Probably just a Soldier of Hell with the song of possesion. Revolver Ocelot: A normal human, with a nasty streak ANY demon would love. he is an excellent shot with his gun, and an expert in torture. Otacon: Servitor of Destiny. He is a Mercurian. He was sent to convert Sniper Wolf. Meryl: Female human. Snake is somehow tied to her. Roy Campbel: Normal human, friend of Solid Snake's. His niece (Meryl) was captured to push him towards his fate. Honorable, but is forced to violate this in order to spare his Neice's life. Anyone else find in Nomine style games out there? John T Perkowski Ofanite of Arcade Games Impudite of Useless Ideas "Thou art a Nail!"-Servitor of David, weilding a sledgehammer, to a demon. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 05:49:05 -0500 From: dahak Subject: IN> Liber S. Contest updates... Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 19:21:09 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Liber S. Contest updates... I'm hoping to get some feedback on Choir/Band and Superior combos that we haven't got many of. However, since I've been spending several hours on this, tidying up formatting bugs... Including ones from people who should know better. Okay, there's one bug in the HTML. I was calling a tab a and that was eaten by HTMLing. Now, to recap, for those who just aren't seeing this. . . . - - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ What about Needs? Most and Least Honourable Acts? Destiny and Fate [to name the most frequently resonated long term information about characters] Adam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 05:49:09 -0500 From: dahak Subject: IN> Discord and Rites Isn't it simpler to assume that dissonance conditions are one of those things that Superiors wire into their servitors as a feedback system much as they give out rites [which generate essence for the Servitor and possibly the Superior] as positive reinforcement for good behaviour. Thus like attunements, dissonance conditions stay around until a superior removes them. This would normally be in retuning them when they change superior. Which leaves renegades and outcasts with the problems even though they may not have the benefits of rites. [depending of course whether rites require the superior's willingness for them to continue working. The Revelations Cycle implies this though it may just be the cost of attuning every one who asks for the Incinerate Servant of Magog rite that hurts Gabriel. The ability of angelic outcasts and ex-demons to use the rites implies otherwise.] In Lilith's case she will attune any one to her word without removing the previous one but gives both Dissonance conditions [negative reinforcement] and Rites [Positive reinforcement]. It is possible to less tightly attune someone [just giving a rite or an attunement] but Lilith doesn't give anything away for nothing. What the cost to get Lilith to remove your current dissonance conditions would be, I hate to think. Adam PS: It appears to be impossible to remove rites except insofar as demonic renegades [but not redeemed] have no access to them. Is this correct? - -----Original Message----- > >At 4:23 PM -0500 1/2/99, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: >>Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> >>>Lilith is, as usual, a special case. I have generally regarded that >>>trick of hers as something like a modified Geas. But yes, I took that >>>into account when I was coming up with that notion that dissonance >>>conditions and Hearts are connected. >> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 16:29:40 +0200 From: Ijon Tichy Subject: Re: IN> Pronunciation Guide At 16:54 03/01/99 , gantr@NKU.EDU wrote: >NOt a lot of differences, mostly subtle ones. For the record, I think >Maya's pronunciation of Baal as "Bayl" is historically accurate. I'm afraid not. Ba'al is the pronunciation, and this particular word has been circulating in the Middle East for millenia. It is still preserved, however, both in Hebrew and in various dialects of Arabic, pronounced the _same_ in both languages (an even stronger indication of the common historical origin of the word). Ba'al means "lord, master". In modern Hebrew, embarrassingly enough, it also means "husband". While we're at it, Ba'al is also the base for the common demonic name "Beelzebub", the original name is "Ba'al Zevoov", meaning "Lord of the Fly", and its pronunciation and spelling were both slightly mangled somewhere along history. - -- Ijon Tichy (ICQ:199957) Sailing the 'net in the only e-mail: ijon@forum2.org Space Barrel known to man. Homepage: http://forum2.org/ijon MOO: VotSB, http://forum2.org:7000 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 10:11:18 PST From: "Martin Arnold" Subject: IN> I have a question about the Liber Servitorum I have a question about the Liber Servitorum; is it just NPC's (plus an adventure or the odd seed)? If so, is this a good idea? What else is there that can justify the purchase? Martin ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 18:40:43 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Baphomet und Templars + INRI On Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 02:54:57AM -0500, Eslin wrote: > Dreams? One with the attunement of the other? Do I think too much about > this?) than I do about Baphomet, and everything I know about the Templars > I learned from Emily Dresner. I'm half-curious how many other people on > this list are in similar straits with regard to the Templars... > ObTrivia: The only animal Templars were allowed to hunt was the lion, because it was criticised in some book in the Bible I can't remember. The main reason I haven't contributed to this thread is that I simply don't believe in the corruption of the Templars, or Baphomet, or any of the rest of it. What I do believe in is that Philip the Fair wanted money, and picked on a group he reckoned was suitably unpopular in order to get it. IIRC, he also expelled the Jews from France, but that might be inaccurate. I'd personally play it that the secret of the Templars was that Asmodeus'/Kronos' demons had words in Philip's ear, with the ultimate aim of corrupting the Church. (It was Philip who moved the Papacy forcibly to Avignon, nay?) Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Warfare is the Tao of deception. Thus although capable, display incapability to them. When committed to employing your forces, feign inactivity. When [your objective] is nearby, make it appear as if distant; when far away, create the illusion of being nearby." -Sun Tzu, the Art of War. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 18:48:17 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Faith On Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 01:36:03AM +0000, Sam Kington wrote: > > No (I had seen it, I intended the charcacter to persuade through > > reason, but without lying), I meant skills people had made up > > themsleves or they'd seen on the newt somewhere. > Persuasion through reason? What a concept. For persuasion in general, I think you want Emote. I think it's needed in order to sound sincere, which is at least half the battle. (Suggesting that Balseraphs and Seraphim have naturally high Emote scores.) For persuasion through reason, you can make up a skill called Persuasion. All the social skills I've seen in IN have been based on Intelligence, Perception or Will, with Will implying an element of coercion. I'd go for using the same defaults as Lying, myself. > non Canon skills, does it matter if they've been done before? You want a > skill that isn't in the rulebook, you roll your own. That's an interesting use of the term "roll". Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Warfare is the Tao of deception. Thus although capable, display incapability to them. When committed to employing your forces, feign inactivity. When [your objective] is nearby, make it appear as if distant; when far away, create the illusion of being nearby." -Sun Tzu, the Art of War. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 18:55:59 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Word Conflict On Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 12:36:12AM -0500, Perry Lloyd wrote: > >>Children - reminds me of that Demon I had going for that word -"There > >>aren't enough Children in Hell - that looks like a nice opportunity". > Must > >>write her up for the list. > > > > Yiurg... The Demon of Curropting Children, Then Killing Them > > Fate/Death > Personally, I'd prefer the Demon of Children to want people to act like children, because children know the Way, until such concepts as altruism, etc. are trashed into them by emotionally crippled parents. A Habbalite of Dark Humour, perhaps. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Warfare is the Tao of deception. Thus although capable, display incapability to them. When committed to employing your forces, feign inactivity. When [your objective] is nearby, make it appear as if distant; when far away, create the illusion of being nearby." -Sun Tzu, the Art of War. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 18:57:22 GMT From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: Re: IN> Death (by Switchblade-Wielding Rabbit) to Telephone Solicitors >David Edelstein wrote: >> I swear I'm gonna do IN stats for Bun-Bun one of these days... >> -David (if you don't get it, nevermind) > >Jordi's servitor. Is the bunny not nifty? Outcast Malakite of Jordi (he liked Baywatch too much and the great grassy outdoors too little), stuck with a lop-eared bunny vessel, with the Proficiency (Switchblade and Heavy Weapon) attunement from Michael. How about Dr Lorna? - --- Maya, Elohite of Eli in service to Blandine maya@tcp.co.uk - -- "There are those who say that wizards are subject to temptations and addictions beyond the understanding of ordinary men: the addiction to shape-changing, or to meditation under the influence of certain herbs and conditions of the stars; the obsession with knowledge, and the development of power. Yet this is not so. Temptation is temptation, obsession is obsession, and choice is choice." - Isar Chelladan, Precepts of Wizardry. -- "Dog Wizard", Barbara Hambly. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 14:10:44 -0500 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Liber S. Contest updates... Perry Lloyd wrote: > > >Another reminder: watch the smartquotes! They are pernicious and do not > >translate as anything reasonable when I get them. I do *not* deal with > >them. I send them back to you and whine that you should have known > >better. > > Ummm... anyone can answer this, I don't mind: What are "smart quotes"? > and if I don't know what it is do I need to bother with it? > > It's quotes that 'know' whether they are on the left or right side of quoted text (and they may do other things as well for all I know). Which means you have to have two separate codes for them... neither of which match the standard 'quote' character. They also make it annoying to have imbedded quotes and other things I like to do. In short, they are a bad, bad idea. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 20:13:52 +0100 From: "Peter Wiggin" Subject: R: IN> Baphomet und Templars + INRI Kevin Walsh wrote: >The main reason I haven't contributed to this thread is that I simply >don't believe in the corruption of the Templars, or Baphomet, or any of >the rest of it. Yes, maybe the Knights of the Temple where not corrupted. Maybe. But in their confession there are alwais the same points: recusation of the Cross, worship of an head idol and a strange initiation ritual. Is this sufficient to make an imputation of eresy true? Maybe not, but Dominic should say Yeah. >What I do believe in is that Philip the Fair wanted money, >and picked on a group he reckoned was suitably unpopular in order to get >it. Yes. This is right. Templars where almost the greater european bank of the period, with enormous power and wealth and they wanted to create a nation of their own in Languedoc, as Teutonic did on Baltic. But is also true that the treasure of the Templars has never been found... So Philips the Fair's operation was a flop? >IRC, he also expelled the Jews from France, but that might be >inaccurate. I don't know, sorry >I'd personally play it that the secret of the Templars was >that Asmodeus'/Kronos' demons had words in Philip's ear, with the ultimate >aim of corrupting the Church. (It was Philip who moved the Papacy forcibly >to Avignon, nay?) Yes, Philip moved the Papacy to Avignon, but in that period Church was very powerful but terribly ago from christian morality... Moving Church to Avignon was an attempt to remove power from the hands of the Popes who where not properly saints... And Templars too where much more interested in economy than in defense of Holy Land... just because Palestine was definitively in Arabian hands. [Peter] "Cu" [Wiggin], Archangels of the Celts ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 19:40:50 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: R: IN> Baphomet und Templars + INRI On Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 08:13:52PM +0100, Peter Wiggin wrote: > Yes, maybe the Knights of the Temple where not corrupted. Maybe. But in > their confession there are alwais the same points: recusation of the Cross, > worship of an head idol and a strange initiation ritual. > Is this sufficient to make an imputation of eresy true? > Maybe not, but Dominic should say Yeah. > This relies on the idea that the confessions were not invented by the interrogators, which I personally think is by far the most plausible explanation. > Yes. This is right. Templars where almost the greater european bank of the > period, with enormous power and wealth and they wanted to create a nation of > their own in Languedoc, as Teutonic did on Baltic. If my memory serves, the Templars played no part in the Albigensian Crusade, which was surely the ideal time for them to make a new nation in Languedoc. I'm not sure about this point, but really I can't see any support for that idea. (But then I belong to the boring mundanity rather than the conspiracy theory school of history.) And they needed that money. Crusading was a very expensive business. > But is also true that the treasure of the Templars has never been found... > So Philips the Fair's operation was a flop? > They mightn't have been able to stockpile all that much. (Though they certainly had vast fixed assets.) Given that they had to train and maintain a standing army which suffered very high casualties (in The New Knighthood, the author reckons that there were several occasions when it was almost wiped out militarily) and send it across vast distances and supply by sea in an era of not very good communications, any profit they made was probably needed to pay off the next great disaster. > Yes, Philip moved the Papacy to Avignon, but in that period Church was very > powerful but terribly ago from christian morality... The move to Avignon didn't improve it, and ultimately did very bad things to the Catholic Church. I wish I could remember the name of the author who commented on the standards of high Church officials by comparing the number of brothels in Avignon before the Exile and his own day. Moving Church to > Avignon was an attempt to remove power from the hands of the Popes who where > not properly saints... The French Kings, Louis IX excepted, weren't saints either, and Louis was a little bit dead at that stage. And Templars too where much more interested in > economy than in defense of Holy Land... I think it's more accurate to say that the bulk of their members were involved in farming, etc., because they needed it. Farms in medieval times didn't produce large surpluses, so a lot of land was needed for logistical support. And if the Templars didn't try attacking the Holy Land more often, it was because it was recognised that it wasn't a strategically viable move. (I'm fairly sure Jacques de Molay campaigned in the Holy Land when he was younger, and that there were Templars at Acre around the time it fell.) They still maintained military forces to defend islands such as Cyprus and Crete from the Mamluks. just because Palestine was > definitively in Arabian hands. > The Mamluks weren't Arabs. Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Warfare is the Tao of deception. Thus although capable, display incapability to them. When committed to employing your forces, feign inactivity. When [your objective] is nearby, make it appear as if distant; when far away, create the illusion of being nearby." -Sun Tzu, the Art of War. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 14:38:19 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Maya - (WAS: IN Charity Auction playlet) At 6:42 PM -0600 1/3/99, Shadowstar wrote: > Typical. Just a little snippet, and *zing* she owns your soul. > Somehow, I almost feel pity for those of you lucky enough to have her as >your GM. There are times when I worship at her feet and feed her Inner Shedite bonbons. It's safer that way. >>Maya, Elohite of Eli in service to Blandine > > > Yeah, right... Dreams, uh-huh... Sure it isn't Habbalah in service >to Beleth? *grin* I certainly hope it's not plural Habbalah, but we *all* know that Maya's an angel. Really! - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 14:45:30 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Liber Canticorum (Can there be spoilers? These might At 3:32 PM -0500 1/3/99, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >> >>At 4:23 PM -0500 1/2/99, Neel Krishnaswami wrote: >>>Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>> >>>>Lilith is, as usual, a special case. I have generally regarded that >>>>trick of hers as something like a modified Geas. But yes, I took that >>>>into account when I was coming up with that notion that dissonance >>>>conditions and Hearts are connected. >>> >>>So no other Prince can do this? >> >>I would think that she's the Geas-mistress. Besides, why would they >>want to? > > I can easily see Asmodeus or Malphas doing this IMC at least, >if for no other reason than to stir up a paranoia. And who knows what >their *real* reasons are? (Can't you see a corp of infernal political >officers, with both Baal and Asmodeus's dissonance? I can.) Perhaps, as a modified Geas, the Rites and Dissonance package of Freedom show -- an ear-ring or pinkie-ring or something? (So it becomes less useful as a "secret master" think.) Also, due to the nature of Freedom, I figured that while Lilith has to bestow the package upon one personally, one can always *reject both* -- take the ring off and throw it away. Which makes it much less useful to the Princes, unless they just want to be munchkin and give their Servitors both Word-bonuses for Songs... Ew. I don't think other Princes should be able to do that. I'm seeing this in my head and it's just getting *sick*. >Beth wrote: >> >>The other option, you see, is to say that *no one* can be a Servitor >>of Freedom, which doesn't entirely work out either. (And if Dissonance >>isn't in the Heart, then you *cannot* have Renegade Gamesters who aren't >>puddles of Discord in about three days flat, and *that's* kind of wonky >>right there...) > >and Jo wrote: >> >>I think it makes outcasts/ renegades work better if you say that a >>superior's dissonance conditions won't give a celestial dissonance if it has >>no heart. (ie. once your heart breaks, you can only get dissonance from >>choir/ band conditions). Right -- that's exactly what I meant. >I don't think that's necessary. Here's one possible metaphysical >explanation, along with a set of mechanical results that map to >what I think you're saying is necessary. It's an interesting explanation, but I think that the two-way-street aspect is _really_ going further outside of what's already been established as the reasons why Renegades are hunted, from the main-book and the IPG. (Because Princes are powermongering control-freaks, primarily...) Mind, anyone wanting to use this in their own campaigns is hardly going to get Habbalah of Nitpicking descending upon them. (Maya's in service to Blandine. Really.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 13:46:41 -0600 (CST) From: Elizabeth Bartley Subject: Re: R: IN> Baphomet und Templars + INRI On Mon, 4 Jan 1999, Peter Wiggin wrote: > Yes, maybe the Knights of the Temple where not corrupted. Maybe. But in > their confession there are alwais the same points: recusation of the Cross, > worship of an head idol and a strange initiation ritual. Since the confessions were extracted under torture, probably by torturers communicating with each other, that doesn't prove anything. Elizabeth Bartley e-bartley@pobox.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 20:09:37 +0000 From: Kevin Walsh Subject: Re: IN> Liber Canticorum (Can there be spoilers? These might On Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 02:45:30PM -0500, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > I can easily see Asmodeus or Malphas doing this IMC at least, > >if for no other reason than to stir up a paranoia. And who knows what > >their *real* reasons are? (Can't you see a corp of infernal political > >officers, with both Baal and Asmodeus's dissonance? I can.) > For no reason in particular, this reminds me of what any Servitor of the War who is getting bothered by Game agents for no good reason should do: charge them with mutiny, a military offence tried by court-martial. > Mind, anyone wanting to use this in their own campaigns is hardly > going to get Habbalah of Nitpicking descending upon them. (Maya's > in service to Blandine. Really.) > Of course not. Usually we get the Calabim to descend on them and bring them back to the Habbalah. It does less damage to the Habbalah's hair, which is always important. (Especially when you have to listen to them whining about it.) Kevin Walsh, Balseraph of Nitpicking, Demon of Off-Topic Trivia. - -- "Warfare is the Tao of deception. Thus although capable, display incapability to them. When committed to employing your forces, feign inactivity. When [your objective] is nearby, make it appear as if distant; when far away, create the illusion of being nearby." -Sun Tzu, the Art of War. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:05:16 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Liber Canticorum - My pretty new toy! At 9:34 PM -0500 1/3/99, David Edelstein wrote: >But seriously, no one ever gets put in charge of anything unsupervised. >Writers have editors, editors have Line Editors, Line Editors have Managing >Editors, and Steve Jackson himself has to give the final say-so. >>>>I probably wouldn't make him the editor of any book like those of the >Revelations Cycle; there are too many opportunities for him to make >explicit things that are best left Canon Doubt and Uncertainty.<<< > >What, you mean never let me introduce Jesus Christ as Lilith and Laurence's >love-child? David! How did you know about that plot? (And the original notion had to do with getting Uriel *really* dru... Uh, is this thing on? Oops.) *ahem* Move along, folks. Nothing to see here. Move along, move along. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:10:18 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Liber S. Contest updates... At 12:16 AM -0500 1/4/99, Perry Lloyd wrote: >>Another reminder: watch the smartquotes! They are pernicious and do not >>translate as anything reasonable when I get them. I do *not* deal with >>them. I send them back to you and whine that you should have known >>better. > >Ummm... anyone can answer this, I don't mind: What are "smart quotes"? >and if I don't know what it is do I need to bother with it? Smartquotes are where your wordprocessor inserts quotes that "curl" inwards to what they're quoting, rather than being two little dots that go up and down. (`` mimics opening smartquotes, but there's not really an ascii equiv, except maybe ,, (raised up to quote height). MS Word has an option that automatically inserts them, changing regular " to `` -- which can be turned off. >>If all you kind folks can manage to send me stuff that I don't have to >>spend great gory gobs of time fixing, I will be a much happier Djinn >>Princess. And the next time you see me, I won't hit you with a rolled >>up newspaper. > >Ah! No! Fear the newspaper of nitpicking. Or maybe I'll just arrange a nice demonic deal with Bun-bun. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:19:47 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: IN- Word Conflict At 12:36 AM -0500 1/4/99, Perry Lloyd wrote: >>That is also possible -- or Belial's too thick in the head to go nuts, >>whereas Gabriel was always connected with prophecy to a certain extent, >>and we know prophets are often vague, obscure and not connected >>entirely to reality. > >Gabriel is an Ofanite, therefore all her energy is within her, Belial is >a Calabite, therefore his energy projected outside. Might this have >something to do with it? It might! Good one. Gabriel internalizes her disjointedness, Belial just blows things up -- like you can tell when a Calabite Prince is destroying things more often? >>That, plus PMS, and Gabriel is explained nicely. (I can make PMS >>jokes. I get it.) > >Good lord... "The PC's were watching the moon again, one of them thinks >she's figured out Gabriel's 'cycle'" >>>> (And Gabriel *was* functional up until about Islam...) >>>Dominic did handle that whole matter rather badly... >>Stress. Very understandable. > >Heck yeah, stess compounded with social expectations. Research has >shown that many women will not have PMS until they are told what it is >(unfortunately for many, this is before menarche), also, one facinating >study involved over 300 women. All were told by their doctors (gyns or >whatever) when they would menstruating, but half weren't told the truth, >so they *thought* they would be menstruating at a time when they >actually weren't. > >All had PMS in proper time sequence with when they *thought* they would >be menstruating, meaning it was more psychological than physioloical, of >course, when it come to hormones and stuff the lines *really* blur so... >Anyway... Ah, but I never know quite when I'm going to be menstruating, since I have cycles that range from 28 to 40 days -- and I get the screaming urge to kill things now and again, and they go away after I start the "reboot of reproductive cycle." (Ditto tender breasts. I'm sure that there's a strong psychological component, but I got the "I am stressed out and angry right now - wow, 'reboot' just happened the next day. Hm!" corrolation independantly.) Obviously Gabriel just has *really long* cycles, and she's been in this one for a loooong time. Or maybe she accidentally made the vessel hormonally unbalanced in the first place. Oops. >>>> (Why, yes, I *am* in a strange mood.) >>> >>>Wow, you mean you're sometimes /not/ in a strange mood :) I'm >>>permanently in one :) >> >>Sometimes I'm in different strange moods. > >:) Mood? What is this 'mood'? Sort of like aspects. Sometimes I'm in a weird mood, sometimes I'm in a Djinn mood, sometimes I'm in a Lilim mood, sometimes I'm in a Habbalite mood (usually during PMSsy stages). - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:23:34 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Liber S. Contest updates... At 5:49 AM -0500 1/4/99, dahak wrote: >What about Needs? Most and Least Honourable Acts? Destiny and Fate >[to name the most frequently resonated long term information about >characters] www.sjgames.com/in-nomine, in the news of the day. There's a list of the Rules for the contest (slightly HTML-buggy; see my other update comments). The three things that you mention do not have Official Placement. The GM probably has to make it up himself, or the author can cunningly slip hints into the description. Note the "cunningly" word. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:25:34 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Discord and Rites At 5:49 AM -0500 1/4/99, dahak wrote: >Isn't it simpler to assume that dissonance conditions are one of those >things that Superiors wire into their servitors as a feedback system >much as they give out rites [which generate essence for the Servitor >and possibly the Superior] as positive reinforcement for good behaviour. It would be, but it makes Renegades of the Game and the Sword even more unplayable than otherwise. > PS: It appears to be impossible to remove rites except insofar as >demonic renegades [but not redeemed] have no access to them. Is this correct? I think the notion was that Rites can be removed -- but any angel who uses them is getting what he deserves. Gotta have some self-control here, bucko. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:28:30 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> I have a question about the Liber Servitorum At 10:11 AM -0800 1/4/99, Martin Arnold wrote: >I have a question about the Liber Servitorum; is it just NPC's (plus an >adventure or the odd seed)? NPCs, clarification and rules on Servants, guidelines on Roles. >If so, is this a good idea? What else is there that can justify the >purchase? Let's just not go here... The Liber S is in production. If you don't think what's in it is useful, then don't buy it. But all that ranting for or against it will do is -- waste list bandwidth. And you don't want me getting Djinny again. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1078 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.