From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Sun Oct 3 12:24:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA25287 for ; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 12:24:52 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id MAA10727 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 12:22:18 -0500 Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 12:22:18 -0500 Message-Id: <199910031722.MAA10727@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1350 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Sunday, October 3 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1350 In this digest: Re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD Re: IN> Sticky situation Re: IN> Celestial Creativity Re: IN> Sticky situation IN> Sticky situations - the general case IN> dark ages superiors IN> dark ages superiors Re: IN> dark ages superiors IN> seraphim and roles Re: IN> seraphim and roles IN> Xena: Fallen Angel (No *major* Spoilers) re: IN> WoD/IN crossovers IN> L(©¿©)K Here And Get Completely "FREE" PCS Digital Cell Phone... Re: IN> seraphim and roles IN> Legion ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 11:16:30 -0400 (EDT) From: jadasc@ma.ultranet.com (Jason Schneiderman) Subject: Re: IN> In Nomine Conversions: GURPS vs WoD At 10:16 AM 9/29/99, Emily Dresner wrote: >This argument seems to go around and around in circles without any >resolution in sight. What I'd be interested in, instead of the same Holy >Jihad, is a discussion on _alternative_ systems. This may be premature, but I've heard good things about the Nobilis system - - a small-press game that's sorta Vertigo'ish in tone. Apparently, it's got a Word system built into the rules. Reviews can be found on rpg.net; I've got my copy on order, and I'll tell more when it arrives. Jason Schneiderman - --- jadasc@ma.ultranet.com (life) werther@hilander.com (play) jayafter12am@hotmail.com (late-night) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 10:03:39 -0600 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Sticky situation I've had "sticky situations" arise as well -- I have a player who took it upon herself to play a Malakite, but she's always been a sucker for the bad guy. A certain Impudite was given the unfortunate task of aiding the party discretely, and so far he's gotten the shaft for it (up to, and including, being Song of Motion'd off a moving 747 airliner WITH the terrorist's bomb), but orders are orders. On a fluke, the Malakite and her pals pull up next to this Impudite while he's driving to pick up a date. Since their angelic orders include finding the big demonic plots in the city and thwarting them, they decide to follow this little fish to find some bigger fish, and arrange for the Malakite and the Ofanite to double-date with the Impudite and his mortal girlfriend. (You figure that one out. They both work for Gabriel.) Well, once at the club, an impasse occurs. Things go from bad to worse as the Demon of Electric Guitars shows up to play with the band the angels are guarding, the party gets the poor Impudite slightly inebriated, the OTHER Malakite in the party is ready to whip out a gun and open up IN THE CLUB, and the Impudite won't spill the beans. In fact, he threatens to spend a ton of essence, alerting the Word-Bound demon on stage to his predicament. I'd say that's a stickier situation for a Malakite to be in -- and it seems the Malakite was telling the truth when she told the Impudite she'd let him go if he spilled the beans. She used her resonance on him. He's extremely selfish. But that's all he is. Does she have to wax his hide? Ben ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 14:07:13 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Celestial Creativity David Edelstein wrote: > > >>>Your evidence for this being? They are apparently creative enough to > make > new Songs,<<< > > No, they _discover_ new Songs, they don't create them. What he said. All Songs-- past, present and future-- exist somewhere in the Symphony and clever celestials can find them. > > >>>Vessels (which, once upon a time, didn't exist),<<< > > Only Archangels can make vessels, usually. And this was a matter of > discovering how to manipulate Forces. A certain amount of creativity was > involved -- no one said that celestials don't have *any* creativity -- but > they're generally not very innovative. (And if you look at the timeline in > the GMG, you'll see that the angels were running around on Earth for > thousands of years before they figured out the corporeal vessel trick.) There's a strong argument that they WOULDN'T have done it if evolution (i.e. God) hadn't made something to copy. ;) I do think celestials can be creative, but for them it wasn't an essential survival trait like it is in humans. There was no striking need for it, so it isn't as strong in them. Interestingly, it's the DEMONS who have to be most creative. Witness the Jean/Vapula dichotomy. Jean _knows_ the laws of the universe, which gives him a leg up on Vapula, but Vapula has come up with things that I don't think Lightning would have ever considered on his own. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 14:05:17 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Sticky situation From: Ben Glickler > > I'd say that's a stickier situation for a Malakite to be in -- and > it seems the Malakite was telling the truth when she told the > Impudite she'd let him go if he spilled the beans. She used her > resonance on him. He's extremely selfish. But that's all he is. > > Does she have to wax his hide? Not if the information pans out toward nailing a greater evil, no. If it doesn't pan out, however, that Impudite had better have a spare vessel handy, or be prepared to do the same thing as in "A Dark Dream"... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 18:38:50 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Sticky situations - the general case >>>It's easy to come up with hypotheticals... if a Seraph says, "This Ofanite will stand RIGHT HERE WITHOUT MOVING for the next 24 hours," then either the Seraph or the Ofanite is going to take some dissonance.<<< Not necessarily. If the Seraph actually _believes_ the Ofanite is going to stand right there without moving for the next 24 hours, he's not lying. Of course it would be interesting to see what would make a Seraph believe that an Ofanite would do that. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 18:38:51 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> dark ages superiors > Islam as a full fledged religious movement didn't really take hold until > the late 8th century after the various wars and the consolidation of the > doctrine(incidentally, this is where the misogynistic 'doctrines' come > from). Depends what you mean by "full-fledged religious movement." Islam spread like wildfire from Arabia across the Middle East and North Africa during those two centuries. I'd say it had "taken hold" well before the late 8th century. It is during the 8th century that boundary lines became more fixed, and a more stable theology developed. (And a lot of the misogynistic doctrines were a combination of pre-Islam Arabian tribal customs, which Muhammad tried to do away with, and importation from a variety of other cultures, ranging from the Byzantines to the Turks.) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 18:38:50 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> dark ages superiors >>>also, i'd imagine uriel getting on pretty well with gabby ("the purifying flame").<<< No, actually, Uriel mistrusted Gabriel for bringing about Islam (which he regarded as a threat to the religion he favored, Christianity). There was an earlier (now non-canonical, I think) story by Derek Pearcy in which Uriel's Purity Crusade was actually initiated as a means of eventually storming Gabriel's Cathedral in the Marches and taking her out. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 17:57:52 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> dark ages superiors From: David Edelstein > > There was > an earlier (now non-canonical, I think) story by Derek Pearcy in which > Uriel's Purity Crusade was actually initiated as a means of eventually > storming Gabriel's Cathedral in the Marches and taking her out. Was this posted? I'd love to read it, if it were... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 00:59:51 -0400 From: Ben Aldred Subject: IN> seraphim and roles how do seraphim feel about roles. In effect they are lying to the symphony. However, does giving them a role give them a bend of the truth? for instance if a seraph has a role of high school student, can they say I am a high school student or do they take dissonance for this. Does having a role make something the truth. They can do things that fool the symphony. Does this make it the "truth"? Ben ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 00:16:19 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> seraphim and roles >how do seraphim feel about roles. In effect they are lying to the >symphony. However, does giving them a role give them a bend of the truth? >for instance if a seraph has a role of high school student, can they say I >am a high school student or do they take dissonance for this. Does having >a role make something the truth. They can do things that fool the >symphony. Does this make it the "truth"? As I understand it creating a role makes a place in the Symphony for a celestial, so they would be a high school student (their enrolled in the school, on the attendance sheets, have records). The Superior doesn't lie to the Symphony, they alter it by doing something (as opposed to altering it by just saying its different). It covers up disturbance because the Symphony now includes that celestial in that regard. High enough roles would allow you to track down people who will swear they met the person (at least IMC). I'd imagine some roles come from lives cut short (for heavenily ones the possitive turns, from hell the negative ones). The celestial doesn't become the person per se but before the Symphony phases out that individual's potential effect on it a Superior stops it and puts a celestial in there (and I bet demons aren't below killing people to create a role). I've toyed with the idea of making roles either develop naturally (as the celestial worms their way into the Symphony) or be lives cut short, no Superiors merely making them. But anyway in response to your question I don't think its lying so Seraphim are fine with it. They won't claim they have a different name, as mentioned in the APG, but they will be a doctor, a bartender, a whore, ect. Timothy, "Angel" of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 02:42:39 -0500 From: Shadowstar Subject: IN> Xena: Fallen Angel (No *major* Spoilers) Really, if you get a chance to catch the season premiere of this show. . . I only have five words to say: Not Canon. But %$#@ing Cool! If anyone wanted to see what Impudites, Mercurians and Malakim look like, this episode is for you. (Oh, okay. Hercules: The Legendary Journies was decent too. Could use it for some more ideas about the powers that be in Hell.) (Also, for those of you who can't or haven't yet seen it. . . May the powers that be smile upon you and let you see it somehow.) Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://www.best.com/~lyceum/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 03:16:16 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: re: IN> WoD/IN crossovers >Tried a private reply, and it got bounced. I'd love to see it. >Thanks for >offering! > >Eris >Corax of Chaos Crap, that means that I'll get bounced too, and you remember what happened *last* time Tigger was . . . woah, wrong genre there for a moment. I'd LOVE to see a copy, too. :) - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com "I will not carve gods" - Bart Simpson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Oct 99 08:10:51 EST From: freephone@boom.com Subject: IN> L(©¿©)K Here And Get Completely "FREE" PCS Digital Cell Phone... [You Definitely Do Not Want To Lose This Email.] The 1st and ONLY Free PCS Digital Cell Phone with NO Long Distance & No Roaming ANY TIME MIN. [50 State Coverage] Now available on the Net!!! Good credit, bad credit, no problem. That's right, a completely "FREE" PCS Digital Cell Phone. Your cost is 0.00, nada, nothing, FREE means FREE!!!! Unprecedented Nation Wide, Limited Time Offer!!! 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To be REMOVED simply call our toll free number at 1-800-811-3190 ext. 5033 and CLEARLY spell out your email addresses or your domain. If you do not spell it clearly you will not be removed. The anti Commercial Emailers want e-mailing done right, well were the ones. Our remove is FREE. You will be removed and never sent mail again. Remove: 1-800-811-3190 ext. 5033 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 07:28:00 PDT From: "Miles 2 Go" Subject: Re: IN> seraphim and roles The creation of roles is covered in Liber Servitorium. Superiors do not wave their hands and create a role. Servitors of Jean and Vapula do work to forge falsify record to create some roles. (One would assume Marc's servants also assists in financial records.) Roles are also built up by having a celestial live the role for many years against the day it is needed. Often that task is farmed out to a reliever/imp/gremlin, but for important tasks a celestial may have to build up a role. Also celestials do take over the roles of humans who have died (naturally or otherwise). Read the section for more details. There is even a sidebar about Seraphim and roles. Seraphim generally prefer high level roles that allow them to tell the truth. "I work for XYZ corp" can be true, while "I am a lawyer" is not. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 11:21:08 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: IN> Legion Were there any demons of corruption? Or did Legion go strait from Princehood to his rampage? Timothy, "Angel" of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1350 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.