From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Oct 4 14:35:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA21357 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 14:35:55 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id OAA08470 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 4 Oct 1999 14:34:07 -0500 Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 14:34:07 -0500 Message-Id: <199910041934.OAA08470@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1351 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, October 4 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1351 In this digest: IN> Legion Re: IN> Legion Re: IN> dark ages superiors IN> more dark age questions IN> servants of dead guys Re: IN> servants of dead guys Dark Ages Jean (was: Re: IN> dark ages superiors) Re: IN> Cities of In Nomine Re: IN> Celestial Creativity Re: IN> Sticky situation Re: IN> IN Crossovers/conversions - the dark side. IN> Re: Dark Ages Jean Re: IN> Cities of In Nomine Re: IN> APG question (forces/damage) Re: IN> APG question (forces/damage) Re: IN> APG question (forces/damage) Re: IN> Sticky situation ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 14:41:24 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Legion >>>Were there any demons of corruption? Or did Legion go strait from Princehood to his rampage?<<< The latter; Legion probably never had any Servitors. However, Legion was the *second* Demon Prince of Corruption. Beelzebub was the first. He was killed by Uriel in the 5th century A.D., but some of his former Servitors may still be around... - -David ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 13:02:25 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Legion >The latter; Legion probably never had any Servitors. However, Legion was >the *second* Demon Prince of Corruption. Beelzebub was the first. He was >killed by Uriel in the 5th century A.D., but some of his former Servitors >may still be around... I was not aware of this? Where is he mentioned and what band was he? I've been writing up stuff on legion (so far he only exists as his last 3 forces, a conversation piece in Lucifer's study). The conversation piece still holds the Word of Corruption and allows Lucifer to employ some of Legions abilities. Timothy, "Angel" of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 20:56:24 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> dark ages superiors From: David Edelstein > > No, actually, Uriel mistrusted Gabriel for bringing about Islam (which he > regarded as a threat to the religion he favored, Christianity). There was > an earlier (now non-canonical, I think) story by Derek Pearcy in which > Uriel's Purity Crusade was actually initiated as a means of eventually > storming Gabriel's Cathedral in the Marches and taking her out. > well, if that's canon it's canon, but i think i'll stick with them getting on pretty well IMC (should it ever actually happen). after all, these are archangels who have known each other for millions of years. at the point the game would be set, christianity would only be a few centuries old and islam barely out of its infancy. i wouldn't have thought that was enough time to spoil a friendship older than the human race. (presumably in canon they didn't get on that well in the first place) liam ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 21:10:22 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: IN> more dark age questions right, so there aren't any existing write-ups of defunct superiors for me to nick. curses. guess i'll have to write them up myself. is it in canon as to which bands and choirs they (raphael, meserach, makatiel, mariel, genubath) belonged to? liam ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 21:13:53 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: IN> servants of dead guys another question - when a superior dies, does its followers automatically lose all their choir and servitor attunements? this is (surprise, surprise) tied into my dark ages campaign - could there still be servitors of corruption wandering around able to use some of the powers of that Word? what about ancient servitors of oannes and vephar? liam p.s. i can't remember if it's been mentioned in one of the books... i know oannes was killed by belial, but what happened to vephar? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 14:36:08 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> servants of dead guys >another question - when a superior dies, does its followers automatically >lose all their choir and servitor attunements? this is (surprise, surprise) >tied into my dark ages campaign - could there still be servitors of >corruption wandering around able to use some of the powers of that Word? >what about ancient servitors of oannes and vephar? They get to keep them, its mentioned in the IPG I think. When a demon prince is destroyed the servitors of the killed prince tend to flee for refuge, and are often accepted because they know have unique powers that won't be given out again. Timothy, "Angel" of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 19:45:24 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Dark Ages Jean (was: Re: IN> dark ages superiors) everyone's forgetting something very important: jean holds the word of Lightning, and while Raphael was still alive. so, during the Dark Ages (500-1000 IIRC) Jean probably had an elemental importance in his word. after the legion episode, which was around 1000 he, along with Yves probably took up the coverage of Knowledge. - -Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" ICQ: 11340261 "I think I woke up screaming, 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -Stabbing Westward, ACF ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 20:58:11 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> Cities of In Nomine I'd certainly buy city books...but then again I'm one of the few that will buy anything put out for In Nomine, so I have a rather slanted bias. - -Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" ICQ: 11340261 "I think I woke up screaming, 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -Stabbing Westward, ACF ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 20:12:53 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> Celestial Creativity I'm sure they do, only there's one problem: since they have no counterpart in human understanding, how are we going to come up with something? - -Dennis H. Groome V "Amo Nympham" ICQ: 11340261 "I think I woke up screaming, 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -Stabbing Westward, ACF - -----Original Message----- From: Ben Aldred To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Friday, October 01, 1999 12:59 PM Subject: Re: IN> Celestial Creativity > do celestials ever make artifacts that have no real >counterpart in human understanding. >i.e. >Human:what the hell is that >Angel: it's a nirtleplag >Human: huh? > >I mean every artifact I have heard of has some specific human or natural >counterpart. Is that true? >Ben > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 09:47:36 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Sticky situation Well, if someone has to take dissonance, it should be the Malakite, since dissonance isn't going to make it fall. (Unless it serves one of those zero-tolerance Superiors who will destroy it for a single note of dissonance. Then we're back to who's the most truly selfless.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 10:10:20 -0500 (CDT) From: "Derek K." Subject: Re: IN> IN Crossovers/conversions - the dark side. On Fri, 1 Oct 1999, the evil demons of the Internet forced Douglas Muir to write: - -="New Haven"? It's a global conspiracy. Look into it. But not too closely. - -= - -=Hmmm. - -= - -=Maybe we finally get to see what's really inside Skull and Bones. - -= Brain and Marrow? - -= - -= - -=Doug M. - -= - -= And I forgot one crossover: HOL/IN Now retitled COL: Celestial Occupied Landfill. With such skills as: Throw humans from really tall places and not feel bad about it, Beat demons about the head and neck with flaming swords, Pull limbs off of bad guys for fun and profit, Telling the Truth , Retelling the Truth and Pointing out that both the Truth and the Truth are True . Also available now are: Burning people up and getting essence for it (a new role) and Making really pointy things go through soft squishy corporeal things and Making really pointy things go through soft squishy celestial things. Also included are Convince God you're right, Convince Satan he's wrong and Convince Satan you're God. And, if you order now, you too can gain the ever popular Fire Big Freakin' Gun, Fire Really Big Freakin' Gun and Don't need a Really Big Freakin' Gun because you can hurt people more with Cool Angelic (Demonic) Powers. Call now! Phone workers are being clubbed to death because they aren't on calls! Save them quickly! Or, if you'd rather, order 3 copies and have your operator clubbed to death while you wait. Cheers, Derek K.B Ofanite of Networks, in Service to Illuminati Online. Hey, we can't all follow the Arch-angels. Habbalite of Sluggy, in Service to Bun-Bun. Ka-Click. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:17:57 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: IN> Re: Dark Ages Jean From: Amo Nympham > everyone's forgetting something very important: jean holds the word of > Lightning, and while Raphael was still alive. so, during the Dark Ages > (500-1000 IIRC) Jean probably had an elemental importance in his word. > after the legion episode, which was around 1000 he, along with Yves probably > took up the coverage of Knowledge. i wasn't forgetting it, i just assumed that even in those days jean was more involved with the "flash of inspiration" than being some kind of storm god. without the science/invention link to his word, i don't see how he could ever have become an archangel in the first place. i imagine raphael as being more the type who encourages people to keep hold of and study the knowledge they have. jean's role is to try and encourage people to discover new knowledge - invent things. still, he's going to be a minor archangel in my dark ages campaign. after all, vapula isn't even a demon prince yet. liam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:20:42 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> Cities of In Nomine From: Amo Nympham > I'd certainly buy city books...but then again I'm one of the few that will > buy anything put out for In Nomine, so I have a rather slanted bias. i too suffer the curse(?) of the "buys anything with in nomine written on it" guy. i'm still to use anything in the revelations books except the new superiors. ah well. a firend of mine has it even worse, he buys anything with "white wolf" written on. as you can imagine, he doesn't have much money left to pay for other less important stuff like food and heating. liam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:33:42 +0100 (BST) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: IN> APG question (forces/damage) On Tue, 21 Sep 1999, Walter Milliken wrote: > Generally, no. As far as I know, there's no way for a corporeal being > (human or celestial in a vessel) to lose Forces, Depends how strongly attributes are tied to forces. For example, top athlete A (Strength 10, Agility 10) has 5 corporeal forces. He's shot, shattering his pelvis. He will probably never reach Str 10 again, and he certainly won't get back to Agi 10, so he must have lost forces. Alternatively, he hasn't lost forces, he just has a pseudo-discord 'Lingering injury/3. Subtract 1 from all Strength-based target numbers, and 2 from all Agility-based target numbers'. Same goes for getting old - few 80-year-olds will have the attribute values they did when they were 25. Finally, does anyone care to speculate whether Parkinson's, senility, stroke and/or traumatic brain damage actually reduce ethereal stats? I can see an argument why a human even in persistant vegetative state could be alive and well in the Marches, with his Intelligence and Precision unaffected. If so, it certainly settles one ethical debate for IN purposes. Steve. - ------ While I'm fully aware that money can't buy happiness, I wouldn't mind being known as "the melancholy guy who drives the red Lamborghini Diablo." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:56:34 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> APG question (forces/damage) Steve Jessop wrote: > Depends how strongly attributes are tied to forces. > Finally, does anyone care to speculate whether Parkinson's, > senility, stroke and/or traumatic brain damage actually reduce > ethereal stats? Another way of putting the issue is, Are forces all parts of the soul, or are some manifest in the body? For a human, does the body = corporeal forces? Or are corporeal forces the part of the soul that holds onto the body? I don't think canon gives a clear answer, though I favor the latter idea, myself, since otherwise it's hard to reconcile the coarse granularity of forces with the smooth range of values in the real world. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 13:32:25 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> APG question (forces/damage) Steve Jessop wrote: > > On Tue, 21 Sep 1999, Walter Milliken wrote: > > > Generally, no. As far as I know, there's no way for a corporeal being > > (human or celestial in a vessel) to lose Forces, > > Depends how strongly attributes are tied to forces. For example, top > athlete A (Strength 10, Agility 10) has 5 corporeal forces. He's shot, > shattering his pelvis. He will probably never reach Str 10 again, and he > certainly won't get back to Agi 10, so he must have lost forces. > > Alternatively, he hasn't lost forces, he just has a pseudo-discord > 'Lingering injury/3. Subtract 1 from all Strength-based target numbers, > and 2 from all Agility-based target numbers'. > > Same goes for getting old - few 80-year-olds will have the attribute > values they did when they were 25. > > Finally, does anyone care to speculate whether Parkinson's, senility, > stroke and/or traumatic brain damage actually reduce ethereal stats? I can > see an argument why a human even in persistant vegetative state could be > alive and well in the Marches, with his Intelligence and Precision > unaffected. I believe this was covered in the CPG. You can lose attributes due to age/injury without losing underlying forces. You can even get points back for them! ;) - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:32:41 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Sticky situation At 12:03 -0400 10/2/99, Ben Glickler wrote: >I'd say that's a stickier situation for a Malakite to be in -- and >it seems the Malakite was telling the truth when she told the >Impudite she'd let him go if he spilled the beans. She used her >resonance on him. He's extremely selfish. But that's all he is. > >Does she have to wax his hide? This boils down, I'd say, to whether the Malakite is one of those who equate "selfish = evil" or "demon = evil". In my game, not all blackwings believe the latter, and some might give a *little* leeway on the former (but keep an eye on the Impudite to see if he does something the Malakite considers actually "evil", and then whack him for it if he does...). Personally, I'd allow Malakim of *some* Superiors to tolerate a demon who was no more than just plain selfish, though I wouldn't expect them to get beyond mere tolerance (admixed with a good deal of disapproval and/or lecturing, and probably some non-lethal pain...). Eli and Novalis would be the most likely Superiors for a tolerant Malakite, and maybe Yves, with Dominic and Laurence being the least likely, with Michael and David close behind. Gabriel is a funny case -- she's not particularly tolerant of demons, but she's also focused on *cruelty*. If the demon in question is cruel, then I'd definitely say the Malakite was looking for dissonance in tolerating the demon. But mere selfishness isn't *necessarily* cruel. So I'd probably leave it to the specific character of the Malakite in question in this case. If the blackwing is energetic in whacking cruel demons, and is willing to give non-cruel ones a little slack (generally to hang themselves...), then it's probably OK. If the Malakite is being actively friendly with the demon, though, and the demon isn't a fast-track redemption candidate, I'd be thinking real hard about giving her a little dissonance. And if she's *ignoring* a cruel demon, it's definitely time to jangle her a bit. If I were playing a Malakite of Gabriel in this sort of situation, I'd probably have him be threatening the demon a lot, with *serious* retribution promised if the demon got out of line *at all*. Not much fun at parties.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1351 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.