From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Oct 5 09:09:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA04903 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:09:06 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id JAA31540 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:07:12 -0500 Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:07:12 -0500 Message-Id: <199910051407.JAA31540@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1354 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, October 5 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1354 In this digest: Re: IN> servants of dead guys Re: IN> Another slew of questions IN> Another slew of questions Re: IN> Sticky situation Re: IN> dark ages superiors Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death Re: IN> URIEL -- Archangel of Purity Re: IN> Gender neutral Malakite oaths? IN> Demonic Words Re: IN> White Wolf Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death IN> Questions about the Marketplace. Re: IN> APG question (forces/damage) Re: IN> White Wolf Re: IN> Sticky situation Re: IN> Re: Dark Ages Jean Re: IN> Another slew of questions Re: IN> more dark age questions Re: IN> Re: Dark Ages Jean Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death Re: IN> Another slew of questions Re: IN> APG question (forces/damage) IN> Re: Dark Ages Jean Re: IN> Sticky situation Re: IN> Gender neutral Malakite oaths? Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death Re: IN> Re: Dark Ages Jean Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death Re: IN> dark ages superiors Re: IN> servants of dead guys ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:04:10 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> servants of dead guys At 17:56 -0400 10/4/99, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Walter Milliken wrote: > >> Servitors without Superiors just aren't tolerated much on either >> side; they will be at least "in service to" someone. > >Hm. I could see Servitors of both Raphael and Oannes flocking to >Eli in fairly substantial numbers (knowledge going hand in hand >with creativity fairly well, water being a key part of the >material creation), I don't see all that much affinity between the Words, myself -- I tend to think most of Raphael's people went to Yves or Jean (probably in that order), with a few with specialties that fell under other Words going elsewhere. Oannes' people probably had more affinity for Janus, since I believe he is listed in the APG history as being in charge of "wind and wave", or something to that effect. And water and wind/weather are fairly tightly coupled -- a lot more so than water/creation, I would say. Some of Oannes' people might have wound up with Trade (since water was the major mode of transport, and essential to trade for most of history). > and ol' laid-back Eli taking them in and >allowing them to just be "in service to" him rather than re-tuning >them, (1) because he's laid back and willing to let them stay >that way if they want, but, more importantly, (2) because re-tuning >them would DESTROY the last remnants of those Words in Heaven. That part I could see, but I wouldn't expect those servitors to seek him out, first. On the other hand, any of the other AAs might have left them linked to Water; jealousy over one's Word's power is more of a demonic trait. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:13:58 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Another slew of questions At 5:12 PM -0400 10/4/99, Walter Milliken wrote: >At 16:36 -0400 10/4/99, Chris Bergstresser wrote: >> 3) Are there any target numbers in the game that *can't* be improved by >>spending essence? > >Dissonance rolls and the like, I think, are about the only ones that can't. Ah, right, Dissonance rolls -- I'd forgotten those. Yeah, you can't spend Essence on them. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:09:40 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Another slew of questions >>> 1) How do Eli's rites work, exactly? I'm guessing the sex one just requires finding someone -- celestial or otherwise -- who'd be up for it. Would same-sex sex work for the purpose of the rite?<<< Probably, unless you're running a Fundamentalist Christian version of In Nomine. It's been argued that Eli promotes sex for procreative purposes (hence "Creation"), and thus would frown on homosexuality, but then, why would he advocate that *celestials* have sex, unless he's secretly teaching all of his Servitors the Celestial Song of Fruition and encouraging them to use it? (Which would certainly explain Dominic's suspicions...) >>>The "succeed at 3 Precision skill roles in a row" means pretty much you'd just have to head down to the target range and shoot off a couple of clips (or similar).<<< Technically, yes, though it's a bit munchkinish and as a GM, I might say the character has to succeed at something when it actually matters (however slightly). >>> 2) Up to now I've been kind of assuming if you spend essence to boost a song you get a bonus to perform it, plus any side effects from increased essence. So, the Ethereal Song of Entropy takes a minimum of 1 essence, and if I spend 3 I get a +2 to perform it and it does (check digit * 3) damage. Is this correct, or does essence spend to raise chance of success separate from essence to increase a song's power?<<< The latter. Essence spent to increase the performance target number does NOT add to the Song effect, and vice versa. >>> 3) Are there any target numbers in the game that *can't* be improved by spending essence?<<< I'm pretty sure there are a few, but they specifically say you can't spend Essence on the roll. So unless the action explicitly forbids it, you can assume you can. >>> 4) I had an angel go into celestial form on Earth and then try to perform a corporeal song. I let them. Was that correct?<<< Sure, although some corporeal Songs will have no effect in celestial form. >>> 5) How bad is it that celestials are being obvious on the corporeal plane? I've had a group rather noisily and obviously popping supernatural powers in from of humans. Not a *lot* of humans, but a couple of security guards. How do people handle this in their campaign?<<< Depends on your campaign. This is discussed a little in (plug plug) the GMG. Basically, you can vary it anywhere from "No big deal" to "If Dominic or Asmodeus find out, you'll have your Forces dismembered," with most campaigns being somewhere in between. In general, celestials shouldn't be showing off in front of mundanes if they can avoid it; their Superiors (and Dominic and Asmodeus) WILL be displeased if they blow the War into the open. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:11:12 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Sticky situation At 17:44 -0400 10/4/99, Trent wrote: >> Eli and Novalis >> would be the most likely Superiors for a tolerant Malakite, and maybe >Yves, >> with Dominic and Laurence being the least likely, with Michael and David >> close behind. > >You forget David's disonance conditions. Actually, I wasn't -- that was partly why he didn't rank with Dominic and Laurence. > His malakim have no choice but to >tolarate most demons who arn't actively attacking him. True, but they're also likely to be looking for a chance to whack the demon at the first opportunity. And "attacking my friends" is, I believe, considered to be sufficient reason. So the Malakite only needs to provoke the demon to attack first, or get some friend to initiate combat with it. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:14:12 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> dark ages superiors At 18:07 -0400 10/4/99, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >I seem to recall, however, something about Gabriel being ticked about >the extinction of the dragons. I am, unfortunately, blanking on _where_ >I recall that from, and am not yet grumpy enough about the lapse to >go look it up. O:> I think it's in the Marches, probably in the section on the Purity Crusade. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:03:02 -0500 From: "James Bearse" Subject: Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death I like it! The Grigori angle is brilliant! I certainly wouldn't mind seeing it in canon, except for one thing... As more and more errata have been published, it seems that the move of the game is away from having an AA and a DP sharing a Word. The point would be to explain just what's up with Gabriel by making her a fairly unique case. So having Azrael and Saminga both sharing the word of "Death" should have far-reaching effects on Azrael's psyche. Although, I did like a suggestion someone made (?) that Saminga's word should really be "the Dead" just as Baal's is "the War". That would work pretty well, I do believe. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:57:08 +0000 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: Re: IN> URIEL -- Archangel of Purity David wrote: > Cherubim > -------------- > Cherubim of Purity are the ultimate trackers; they do not need to make > physical contact to attune themselves to something. They can attune > themselves to the trail their target left behind. This can be any > physical remains, from a fingerprint to a discarded candy wrapper. They > do not necessarily know who or what they are attuning themselves to, but > once they're on the trail, they can follow it to the ends of the > Earth....and beyond. If their target leaves the corporeal plane, then > when the Cherub gets to the location where this took place, he must make > a new Resonance roll to avoid losing the trail. If he makes the roll, he > can continue following his quarry, even to Heaven, Hell, or the Marches. > > Cherubim of Purity can attune themselves to something that has caused a > ripple in the Symphony, if they hear the echoes. Many of Uriel's > Cherubim also obtained his Seraphim's Attunement, making them an evasive > celestial's worst nightmare. This attunement constantly refers to the Cherub's attuned as a 'Target'. Unless you make a point clarifying that Purity's Cherubim are under no compulsion to protect their attuned, they are still single minded in their purpose like any Cherub, and that purpose will be to protect whatever they are attuned to. Without a 'clause' in their resonance, I could see these Uriel going through Cherubim *very* quickly, as they don't know who they are attuned to, and would suffer large amounts of dissonance if the target was hurt, which it would be if it were a demon they were tracking (especially if they were helping their brethren find it). > Kyriotates > --------------- > Kyriotates of Purity can temporarily "purify" those they possess, by > removing any Discord, up the Kyriotate's Celestial Forces. This remains > in effect as long as the Kyriotate possesses the host. Does this work for human 'disadvantages', which are not true discords, as well? > Purifying Flames > ------------------------ > The angel bathes a target in pure white flames. The range is only one > yard for each of the angel's Celestial Forces, but they automatically > hit, and cannot be Dodged. If the target has no Discord, the flames do > no damage. Otherwise, the target takes simultaneous Body, Mind and Soul > Hits equal to his Discord in each area times the Essence used to power > the attack, bypassing all armor. > > Example: The target has 1 level of Corporeal Discord, 2 levels of > Ethereal Discord, and no Celestial Discord. The purifying angel spends 5 > Essence. The target will takes 5 Body hits, 10 Mind Hits, and 0 Soul > Hits. Can this cause enough Soul Hits for the loss of a Force, even if protected by a vessel? Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 02:41:37 +0100 (BST) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: IN> Gender neutral Malakite oaths? On Thu, 23 Sep 1999 (Long time ago, but provoked thought), Amo Nympham wrote: > don't forget celestials do *not* have a gender, although their vessels > may. celestials can, however, come to identify themselves with a > certain gender, but that's just a psychological thing. C.S. Lewis writes about this in 'Voyage to Venus'. He is talking about Perelandra, the angelic guiding spirit of the planet Venus, and Malacandra, the same for Mars. Although I can't quote from memory, the essential idea is there are universal categorisations (which I shall henceforth call Gender). The Feminine Gender has aspects of caring, nurturing, humility, and 'softness' (all as virtues, of course), and Perelandra is Feminine. This is why the planet Venus, is associated with human Venus/Aphrodite/Ishtar myths. Similarly, the Masculine Gender is 'hard', agressive, warlike, powerful, and dynamic. Malacandra is Masculine. Human sexual differences are a shadow of this difference: human males are more warlike than human females because Malacandra is more warlike than Perelandra, etc. Lewis managed to utterly bypass rad-feminism and go straight to 'Men are from Mars, Women from Venus'. Uncapitalised, 'gender' is a linguistic term with no biological meaning. Later (in the sequel) it becomes clear that the other planets fall outside these two Genders. The guiding spirit of Mercury is in many ways Gender-Ofanite. Jupiter and Saturn also have their own characteristics - in summary, Jupiter is Gender-Adonai, and Saturn is Gender-Ancient. Earth's spirit is 'the bent one', so we don't get his Gender. Boiling these ideas into In Nomine terms, an angel's choir *is* it's Gender. When forced to choose a sex, Malakim are most likely to consider themselves male. Mercurians (and Kyrios?) more likely female than male. Elohim, of course, don't express an opinion. Seraphim and Ofanim probably have difficulty understanding why humans care so much about the difference, and will choose whatever suits their personal taste and purpose. Cherubim (and Kyrios?) are likely to be neurotic about the whole thing, expressing as they do strong aspects of both sexes. Demons may be likely to lean towards masculinity, since dominance is stereotypically a masculine trait. Two entire bands are stated exceptions, however, and any demon with a brain will see certain advantages in a female vessel (if not a Feminine demeanor) in a male-controlled society. Finally, it would be fun to have a Seraph or Eloah character who decided that humans can't deal with someone who doesn't fit into humans' artificial categories. He therefore sits down and decides whether to be male/female, democrat/republican, PC/Mac/UNIX, Elvis-person/Beatles-person, Coke/Diet Coke, left-brain/right-brain, despite being incapable of expressing a genuine tendancy to either side. Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 02:50:59 +0100 (BST) From: Steve Jessop Subject: IN> Demonic Words On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Whistling in the Dark wrote: > What if *every* Demonic word is a Lie ... ? What if Demonic Words don't have any power? One of Lucifer's Lies is that the essence supplied to Word-bound demons actually comes from their Words. Really, it comes from Hell. 'Eh?!?!?!', you might reasonably comment. Well, let's say that 1% of humans reach either their Fate or their Destiny. Then one in every 200 (+/- Brightness) humans that ever lived is in Hell. There are around 5.5 billion humans on Earth now, representing (I think) something like 10% of the total of all Homo Sapiens. Hence there are roughly 27.5 million points of essence flowing into Hell's coffers every single day, i.e. (on average) 26.5 points of essence per major Demon Prince per second. I made a lot of assumptions, possibly wrong, but you certainly don't want to be on the pointy end of 65 essence per combat round (assuming the Princes take half the resources for themselves, leaving half for the rest of Hell). Heaven has no such source of essence, Archangels get their power from their Words. Demons are self-centred messes who wouldn't know a connection to a theme of the Symphony if Kronos drew them a picture. Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 02:58:07 +0100 (BST) From: Steve Jessop Subject: Re: IN> White Wolf On Tue, 28 Sep 1999, Ben Aldred wrote: > I don't know, maybe if one wanted to in their own campaign they could > define the mages as the children of the grigori... IMG there are nine 'Great Songs', which are somewhat better than the 'lesser Songs' listed in the book - this is a straight swipe of funky Mage magic into In Nomine, rather than a crossover of any sort. I think I charged 6 points per level for 'Great Songs' when I was still using the IN system to run IN. Max starting PC level is 3, then this limit increases with increasing total forces (for celestials, anyway). Level gives you both the max effects attainable, and the number to add to your relevant forces for the TN. Paradox is dissonance (in smaller quantities), but can't make you Fall. You can boost your 'Song skill' for some cost or other to increase the TNs. For the record, Matter, Forces and Life are Corporeal, Correspondence, Time and Mind are Ethereal, Prime, Entropy and Spirit are Celestial, with some weak significance in the columns (substance/alteration/being) as well as the rows. I think making a Vessel is a Life/5 + Spirit/3 effect. Walking the Marches can be done with Mind/3 or Spirit/2. I can send full details to anyone who wants. Finally, Prime and Spirit needed major rewrites due to the paradigm shift, and the Entropy 1 ability 'Seraph Resonance at CD 6' died a quiet death... Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 23:31:00 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death More in depth commentary later, but for the record -- this is intensely good, and kudos to David both in writing it and in posting it. I hope it crosses the vale into Canon at some stage. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 23:37:35 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death At 6:03 PM -0500 10/4/99, James Bearse wrote: >I like it! The Grigori angle is brilliant! I certainly wouldn't mind seeing >it in canon, except for one thing... > >As more and more errata have been published, it seems that the move of the >game is away from having an AA and a DP sharing a Word. The point would be >to explain just what's up with Gabriel by making her a fairly unique case. >So having Azrael and Saminga both sharing the word of "Death" should have >far-reaching effects on Azrael's psyche. Although, I did like a suggestion >someone made (?) that Saminga's word should really be "the Dead" just as >Baal's is "the War". That would work pretty well, I do believe. The comparison is apt, but where Baal is actively bowing across the strings of Gabriel's Word, Saminga seems to be utterly dismissive of Azrael -- in part because he's likely never met him. And in part because 90% of what Azrael works with in stuff that Saminga doesn't even consider a part of Death. I mean, disposition of Souls in Eternal Rest? Undead *have* no souls or Eternal Rest, and the Souls of Hell are just good for Essence for a while and then get consumed into Final Death -- so what's the point? Azrael I can see despising Saminga, but only at the same level he despises Kronos, say. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 23:00:39 PDT From: "John Smith" Subject: IN> Questions about the Marketplace. Hi, all. List newbie here. :) In the IN game I'm playing in, our motley choir of angels realized we didn't have sufficient Resources to finish our mission. We needed a Talisman of Computer Operation, and maybe an Ethereal weapon or two. We decided to solve the problem by hitting the Marketplace in Heaven. After all, the place was supposed to have _everything_, and we didn't want to pester our Superiors if at all possible. We ran into a couple of problems, though: 1) How much do things cost? Resources probably buy other Resources pretty evenly. (A level 2 Vessel for a Level 3 Talisman, etc.) But what if you want to pay in Essence, or favors? 2) How hard is it to find any specific item? Does it take hours? Minutes? Days? Should we just send an Ofanite? Mordax, of the Game ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 23:29:02 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> APG question (forces/damage) > >Another way of putting the issue is, Are forces all parts of > >the soul, or are some manifest in the body? For a human, does > >the body = corporeal forces? Or are corporeal forces the part > >of the soul that holds onto the body? > >I think it's fairly clear (from dead souls, etc.) that Corporeal Forces >are part of the entity, independent of its body (though they will often >be reflected in the state of any body). The Trauma rules also suggest >(indirectly) that Corporeal Forces are the bindings between the soul and >the physical body. This also crops up a bit in the stuff on celestial >spirits, who, if I recall right, can't get a vessel without having Corp. >Forces. One thing that's rubbed me the wrong way (mew -> hiss) is that Ethereal and Celestial spirts would even have Corporeal forces... Why would 17 Electronica Turbine 42 from LServitorum even *have* Corp Forces? Do Corp forces do ANYTHING for you in the Marches?? Why would a native of the Marches develop them? (I do notice that The Surgeon (Nightmare Fragment) has not Corp Forces, but then why does Elder Thunder (Primal Spirit)? I do notice that the Demonlings do not have Corp. (many lack Ethe as well) forces either. Another question, what good are Corp forces to a native of the Celestial plane, or to anyone *on* the Celestial plane? It feels like the Celestial plane is lesser than Earth because only two-thirds of your being is used there. (Ethe forces are used there, I believe.) - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com "A closed mouth gathers no feet." - Hughs, John ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 23:45:13 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> White Wolf >From: Steve Jessop >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >Subject: Re: IN> White Wolf >IMG there are nine 'Great Songs', which are somewhat better than the >'lesser Songs' listed in the book - this is a straight swipe of funky Mage >magic into In Nomine, rather than a crossover of any sort. Neat!! >I think I charged 6 points per level for 'Great Songs' when I was still >using the IN system to run IN. Max starting PC level is 3, then this limit >increases with increasing total forces (for celestials, anyway). Uhh... IMCs I don't cap your CPs at your Forces x4. I guess you mean Max. "Great Song" rating of 3 at character creation. >Level gives you both the max effects attainable, and the number to add to >your relevant forces for the TN. Paradox is dissonance (in smaller >quantities), but can't make you Fall. You can boost your 'Song skill' for >some cost or other to increase the TNs. Interesting that it can't make you fall. I would imagine the grossly "disturbing" reality/the Symphony one such a fundamental level *could* make you fall. I mean, who are YOU (the angel) to impose your "selfish" view of how reality/the Symphony should be! Likewise, since coincidental magick/singing doesn't *break* the rules of the Symphony, it doesn't result in dissonance/paradox. >For the record, Matter, Forces and Life are Corporeal, > Correspondence, Time and Mind are Ethereal, > Prime, Entropy and Spirit are Celestial, >with some weak significance in the columns (substance/alteration/being) as >well as the rows. Substance Alteration Being ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^ Matter Forces Life ^ Corporeal Correspondence Time Mind ^ Ethereal Prime Entropy Spirit ^ Celestial Wow, that's neat. >I think making a Vessel is a Life/5 + Spirit/3 effect. Walking the Marches >can be done with Mind/3 or Spirit/2. I can send full details to anyone who >wants. Please send full details to me: perrylloyd@hotmail.com :):):) - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com "Plots and Plans. What everyone should have to cook with." - Elizabeth McCoy (personal interview 3/23/99) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 00:46:40 -0700 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> Sticky situation Trent wrote: > > > You forget David's disonance conditions. His malakim have no choice but to > tolarate most demons who arn't actively attacking him. > Heh, that's what Servants are for. Have one of David's holy skinheads go smack that demon up a little and it's on. And -nothing- stops a Malakite of Stone from foiling plans, reporting a demon to other Malakim, setting a trap (I think that's fine). There're just dozens of things to do to make sure you'll get that demon. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 00:49:26 -0700 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> Re: Dark Ages Jean Trent wrote: > . > > Do what you like in your campain, but in my campain all four of the prime > Alchemical Elements (Earth (Stone), Air (Wind), Fire, and Watter) are/were > way more powerful than Lightning boy could ever hope to be without his nifty > gadgets. > > So then...-what- was he (IYC) before humans started using electrical devices? That's a very, VERY new development...like maybe a -century- old for widespread use, if that. He's been an Archangel for a -long- time before that, so what would you say he was doing for all those eons? - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:09:45 +0100 (BST) From: Warsinger Subject: Re: IN> Another slew of questions On Mon, 4 Oct 1999, Chris Bergstresser wrote: > 1) How do Eli's rites work, exactly? I'm guessing the sex one just > requires finding someone -- celestial or otherwise -- who'd be up for it. > Would same-sex sex work for the purpose of the rite? The "succeed at 3 > Precision skill roles in a row" means pretty much you'd just have to head > down to the target range and shoot off a couple of clips (or similar). Both > these seem fairly easy to fulfill, rather unlike the "Help deliver a guilty > mortal to corporeal justice" or "For at least an hour, possess an object or > document worth more than $10,000,000" rites others have. Is it just this > easy, another boon from a way laid-back Superior? Hmm my Ofanim of Eli tried the sex one and ended up finding out her would be partner was a Calabim of Death who was using the excuse of getting alone with her in an attempt to kill her. So not entirely risk free :) But in general yes they are fairly easy rites - but then Creation is a fairly wide ranging Word. > > 2) Up to now I've been kind of assuming if you spend essence to boost a > song you get a bonus to perform it, plus any side effects from increased > essence. So, the Ethereal Song of Entropy takes a minimum of 1 essence, and > if I spend 3 I get a +2 to perform it and it does (check digit * 3) damage. > Is this correct, or does essence spend to raise chance of success separate > from essence to increase a song's power? > Chance of success seperate from spending Essence to increase power I'd say. > 3) Are there any target numbers in the game that *can't* be improved by > spending essence? > Can't think of anything offhand - but I'm sure someone will find one. > 4) I had an angel go into celestial form on Earth and then try to perform > a corporeal song. I let them. Was that correct? > Depends on the precise Corporeal Song - but most of them can be used on any plane of existence. > 5) How bad is it that celestials are being obvious on the corporeal > plane? I've had a group rather noisily and obviously popping supernatural > powers in from of humans. Not a *lot* of humans, but a couple of security > guards. How do people handle this in their campaign? A one off incident depends an awful lot on the circumstances for how bad it is. But the players should be aware that doing it at all regularly is a very unhealthy attitude - within any populated area the chance is some other Celestial will hear and investigate - and of course Dominic/Asmodeus will object on general principles - a Cold War is a quiet War. Warsinger Cute and fluffy....(with claws) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:23:03 +0100 (BST) From: Warsinger Subject: Re: IN> more dark age questions On Mon, 4 Oct 1999, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > I don't think the others are necessarily canonicaled, except maybe > Meserach, as Djinn? (I could be wrong -- if something was mentioned > in passing in the IPG...) Sounds likely. > > Makatiel, I always see as a Habbalite. (This suggests strongly that > the canonical one will either be a Habbalite or a brilliant explanation > (Favorable Intervention) of why it should be another Band.) > I'd thought another Shedite - but that could just be because of the general aura of ick. > Mariel, I see as either Habbalite or Balseraph, for some reason. > Mariel was an Elohite (loneliest Elohite in Heaven to be precise) and therefore Habbie - assuming that memory is about canon stuff. > Genubath... The name originally cropped up in some fanfic of mine, and > SJ asked for a good name... (The original character was a Djinn.) O;> However, > I could see him as a Calabite... > No idea - Balseraph cos more Balseraph Princes are needed :) But I don't know. > Vephar, I also tend to see as Calabite, though a case could be made for > Shedite. > > Djinn. Warsinger Cute and fluffy....(with claws) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 09:32:46 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Re: Dark Ages Jean Trent wrote: > Do what you like in your campain, but in my campain all four of > the prime Alchemical Elements (Earth (Stone), Air (Wind), Fire, > and Watter) are/were way more powerful than Lightning boy could > ever hope to be without his nifty gadgets. Actually, I tend to regard Lightning as the fifth element, ether. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 09:44:38 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death Very good. Neatly explains why Azrael is so obscure, even in Heaven. And does he manifest as a black-robed skeleton with a scythe? Or as a cute goth chick? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:06:24 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> Another slew of questions >>5) How bad is it that celestials are being obvious on the corporeal >> plane? I've had a group rather noisily and obviously popping supernatural >> powers in from of humans. Not a *lot* of humans, but a couple of security >> guards. How do people handle this in their campaign?<<< >> > Depends on your campaign. This is discussed a little in (plug plug) the > GMG. Basically, you can vary it anywhere from "No big deal" to "If Dominic > or Asmodeus find out, you'll have your Forces dismembered," with most > campaigns being somewhere in between. In general, celestials shouldn't be > showing off in front of mundanes if they can avoid it; their Superiors (and > Dominic and Asmodeus) WILL be displeased if they blow the War into the > open. > > -David > my players could get away with causing chaos and disturbance - the price of that was usually some demons turning up on the scene. but if they revealed any angelic/supernatural powers in front of mortals they could get in _big_ trouble. IMC the superiors want the war between heaven and hell to remain entirely secret, mainly at the behest of yves and kronos. i kind of decided on this after reading litheroy's write-up from the gm's screen, where it says that even these devoted followers of truth and Rveelation had been told (from Up High,IIRC) that they _had_ to keep one thing secret - the existence of angels liam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:21:45 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> APG question (forces/damage) From: Perry Lloyd > One thing that's rubbed me the wrong way (mew -> hiss) is that Ethereal and > Celestial spirts would even have Corporeal forces... > > Why would 17 Electronica Turbine 42 from LServitorum even *have* Corp > Forces? why do humans have ethereal and celestial forces? why aren't they dumb grunty things, or empty things like Remnants? i think the answer is that the Symphony itself is constructed from these three forces, therefore everything that is naturally a part of the Symphony (ie just about anything except Remnants and some Undead) contains these three "flavours". sure, ethereal beings don't have much use for Corp Forces. so most of them are probably "corporeally challenged" and have only have 1 or 2. but they are still linked to the Symphony as a whole, and so they still retain that part that is corporeal. liam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:49:46 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: IN> Re: Dark Ages Jean From: Earl Wajenberg > > Actually, I tend to regard Lightning as the fifth element, ether. > nicely tying in with the Sons of Ether if you wanted to do a WoD crossover :) liam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 09:52:35 -0400 From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: Re: IN> Sticky situation "Trent" wrote: > >Walter Milliken wrote: >> Personally, I'd allow Malakim of *some* Superiors to tolerate a demon >> who was no more than just plain selfish [...] Dominic and Laurence being >> the least likely, with Michael and David close behind. > >You forget David's disonance conditions. His malakim have no choice but to >tolarate most demons who arn't actively attacking him. I always ran it so that angels of Stone considered an attack on anyone within their circle as an attack on themselves, to play up the community building and mutual defense angle. If a demon beat up a human that a Malakite of Stone had befriended, then that Malakite could beat up the demon with total impunity. (And in fact David would be very upset if the angel didn't respond. As far as he was concerned, you -were- your brother's keeper.) - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswv.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 09:52:01 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Gender neutral Malakite oaths? Steve Jessop wrote: > Although I can't quote from memory, the essential idea is there are > universal categorisations (which I shall henceforth call Gender). > Human sexual differences are a shadow of this difference: I remember another passage from this discussion. He said that "masculine" is not "diluted male" nor "feminine" "diluted female," but rather that male sex is *one* *of* the things that are masculine and female sex *one* *of* the things that are feminine. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:52:08 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death > Very good. Neatly explains why Azrael is so obscure, even in Heaven. > And does he manifest as a black-robed skeleton with a scythe? > Or as a cute goth chick? > > Earl > cute goth chick! cute goth chick! cute goth chick! cute goth chick! cute goth chick! *ahem* sorry, got a bit carried away there liam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:43:36 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: Dark Ages Jean At 9:32 AM -0500 10/5/99, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Trent wrote: > > > Do what you like in your campain, but in my campain all four of > > the prime Alchemical Elements (Earth (Stone), Air (Wind), Fire, > > and Watter) are/were way more powerful than Lightning boy could > > ever hope to be without his nifty gadgets. > >Actually, I tend to regard Lightning as the fifth element, ether. To me, Lightning is Metaphoric and Actual Evolution. Evolution of the cosmos. Evolution of our understanding of the Cosmos. It compliments the Divine Fire of Gabriel nicely. Stone, on the other hand, tends to be the product, not the process, IMG. But that's in part because David tends to be characterized rather poorly for the maker of communities. - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 09:48:44 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death James Bearse wrote: > So having Azrael and Saminga both sharing the word of "Death" > should have far-reaching effects on Azrael's psyche. It seems to me that they have almost reciprocal sides of the idea of Death, so much so that "Death" might just be the inadequate translation of two different celestial Words -- say "the souls of the dead" vs. "corpses" or "departure of the soul from the body" vs. "end of physical life." Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:34:03 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> dark ages superiors From: David Edelstein > > They probably did get along well enough for the first few million years. > > Keep in mind Uriel's fanaticism. Once he embraced Christianity, he _had_ > to accept that Christianity was the One True Religion, and that any > other religion was false, a corruption of God's Word. Thus, for an > *Archangel* to foster a rival faith could only be a sign of madness, or > worse, diabolical corruption. > > Words will trump million year-old friendships. And don't forget that > Lucifer got along very well with pretty much everyone until a mere > 25,000 years ago... > i've never really pictured uriel as being that "full on". a fanatic, sure, but not a complete nazi. still, i've begun to be seduced by the write-up you sent in. he may end up being a nutter in my dark ages game after all. liam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:37:28 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> servants of dead guys From: Elizabeth McCoy > At 9:13 PM +0100 10/3/99, Liam Astley wrote: > >another question - when a superior dies, does its followers automatically > >lose all their choir and servitor attunements? > > This is in the GMG, if you haven't already been told... O:> Short > answer: no, they don't lose their Choir and Servitor Attunements unless > the _WORD_ itself is eradicated somehow, not just the current holder. > (Lesser Words may well fade enough to cause Servitor Attunements to > fail.) > would this include falling? could there still be servitors of light wandering around? (unlikely after all this time i know, but it would make a cool plot hook). actually, it just occured to me that the H&H book mentions an old servitor of Luci who still hangs around his cathedral. would she still have his attunements? > > >p.s. i can't remember if it's been mentioned in one of the books... i know > >oannes was killed by belial, but what happened to vephar? > > Oannes happened to Vephar. > cool ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1354 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.