From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Oct 5 14:28:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA12223 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:28:05 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id OAA19866 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:23:12 -0500 Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:23:12 -0500 Message-Id: <199910051923.OAA19866@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1355 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, October 5 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1355 In this digest: IN> Re: Dark Ages Jean Re: IN> servants of dead guys IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death IN> URIEL -- Archangel of Purity Re: IN> Questions about the Marketplace. Re: IN> servants of dead guys Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death Re: IN> Sticky situation Re: IN> APG question (forces/damage) IN> In Nomine: The Great War Re: IN> servants of dead guys Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death Re: IN> APG question (forces/damage) Re: IN> servants of dead guys Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death Re: IN> servants of dead guys Re: IN> Demonic Words Re: IN> Demonic Words Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death IN> IN Fiction Re: IN> servants of dead guys Re: IN> Demonic Words Re: IN> APG question (forces/damage) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:29:45 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: IN> Re: Dark Ages Jean From: Steel Angel > So then...-what- was he (IYC) before humans started using electrical > devices? That's a very, VERY new development...like maybe a -century- old for > widespread use, if that. He's been an Archangel for a -long- time before that, > so what would you say he was doing for all those eons? > well, as i said before, i consider him more the archangel of inspiration than of electricity. every invention (well, back in the good old days before vapula turned up) had jean sitting in the wings, orchestrating it, from the dicovery of fire to the discovery of penicilin. his word of lightning is more a metaphor for the "flash of inspiration" than for the literal thing (though he presumably has quite a bit to do with that as well). after all, if jean's interest only lay in (a) electronics and (b) lightning i couldn't see him being an archangel until this century, much like vapula. before humanity mastered electricity he would have just been the Angel of Lightning, probably in service to janus. the only way i can see him having been an archangel for so long (and this is backed up by canon IIRC) is if he is more interested in invention than bad weather. liam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:46:33 +0100 From: "Liam Astley" Subject: Re: IN> servants of dead guys From: Earl Wajenberg > > Hm. I could see Servitors of both Raphael and Oannes flocking to > Eli in fairly substantial numbers (knowledge going hand in hand > with creativity fairly well, water being a key part of the > material creation), and ol' laid-back Eli taking them in and > allowing them to just be "in service to" him rather than re-tuning > them, (1) because he's laid back and willing to let them stay > that way if they want, but, more importantly, (2) because re-tuning > them would DESTROY the last remnants of those Words in Heaven. > Preservation isn't the same as creation, but destruction is > downright antithetical to it. > > So I could imagine that Eli has something of a celestial orphanage > -- which is now even more up in the air than the rest of his flock. > i was wondering about the whole thing as it would seem quite likely to me that there are still servitors of knowledge hanging around. the ex-demon princes were largely killed off in big battles in hell - i could see most of their servitors being killed in the fight as well and the remainder being quickly picked off as the years passed. hell is not a very forgivving place. not to mention that the Game might consider demons wandering around without servitors to be default renegades. but raphael died in combat on the corporeal plane, and was presumably survived by hundreds (if not thousands) of her servitors. i can't imagine that all of them would have given up their Word and switched to another archangel. perhaps there is a still an "academy" of Knowledge angels in heaven, maybe lead by an angel who has taken the word of Knowledge again (but not yet risen to the status of archangel). on a similar note, though most of oannes' followers may have gone to jordi or maybe janus (angel of rain?), there's bound to be a few who remain loyal to their superior, lurking down in the depths of the oceans. liam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:27:58 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death >>>And does he manifest as a black-robed skeleton with a scythe?<<< Not likely -- the Grim Reaper is a figure of fear, preferred by Saminga's crowd. I see Azrael as appearing as a human in a black robe. You rarely see his face, and his voice is very quiet. It may be that Saminga's Servitors came up with the Grim Reaper image as a deliberate twist on Azrael's appearance. >>>Or as a cute goth chick?<<< Not unless he's been reading Neil Gaiman. If he has any modern Servitors, they might think it's a cute idea, though. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:32:20 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> URIEL -- Archangel of Purity >>>This attunement constantly refers to the Cherub's attuned as a 'Target'. Unless you make a point clarifying that Purity's Cherubim are under no compulsion to protect their attuned, they are still single minded in their purpose like any Cherub, and that purpose will be to protect whatever they are attuned to.<<< True. I'm not sure why I left that out -- probably because originally I had in mind something a little different for the Tsayadim in general. (Remember, this is a fairly old writeup.) I'd add that Cherubim of Purity can *sever* an attunement at will, without a Will roll. >>> Kyriotates > --------------- > Kyriotates of Purity can temporarily "purify" those they possess, by > removing any Discord, up the Kyriotate's Celestial Forces. This remains > in effect as long as the Kyriotate possesses the host. Does this work for human 'disadvantages', which are not true discords, as well?<<< Yes. > Purifying Flames > > Example: The target has 1 level of Corporeal Discord, 2 levels of > Ethereal Discord, and no Celestial Discord. The purifying angel spends 5 > Essence. The target will takes 5 Body hits, 10 Mind Hits, and 0 Soul > Hits.<<< Can this cause enough Soul Hits for the loss of a Force, even if protected by a vessel?<<< Yes. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:24:43 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Questions about the Marketplace. At 2:00 -0400 10/5/99, John Smith wrote: >We decided to solve the problem by hitting the Marketplace in Heaven. After >all, the place was supposed to have _everything_, and we didn't want to >pester our Superiors if at all possible. > >We ran into a couple of problems, though: >1) How much do things cost? >Resources probably buy other Resources pretty evenly. (A level 2 Vessel for >a Level 3 Talisman, etc.) Well, you couldn't trade a vessel -- only Superiors can move vessels around, or change them, or grant new ones, as a general rule. >But what if you want to pay in Essence, or favors? For favors, I'd say you'd generally owe roughly what effort was put into making the item. There are rules for this in the L.Reliquarum, and a sparse summary (I think) in the main book. This is often weeks or months, and can be *years*. You could also use the expanded Geas rules in the IPG or FotM (I think it is) to trade off time for other factors. In general, though, I don't think angels -- even of Trade -- are going to be *too* picky about the details; more likely, they'll just ask you to owe them, and they could come back later with virtually any sort of request, or ask you to help someone else. Trade servitors will go for a "fair value" return of some sort, most others probably won't be so picky. If you've got Creationers in the group, or good contacts with Creationers, you might have them ask around that crowd, since Creation Servitors often have a much easier time making various artifacts. (I.e., should be cheaper.) Trading Essence will probably be harder -- Essence is fairly cheap. I'd probably say you could trade all the Essence you'd gain over a time period 2-3 times the time taken to make the item, as a base price. Naturally this wouldn't be all at once. More likely, it would be something like "drop by any time you're here and leave your spare Essence" until the item is paid off. The other way to figure costs (especially for the GM) is to use the character point cost of the resource; the "favor" you'd have to do would then be some side adventure (i.e., not assigned, or maybe even approved of, by your Superior) that would earn the appropriate number of character points. And, depending on who you are, and who you serve, the payment might be asked for up front. >2) How hard is it to find any specific item? >Does it take hours? Minutes? Days? Should we just send an Ofanite? I would expect Marc's angels have the Bazaar well organized -- tell them what you want, and maybe give them a little Essence, and they should be able to tell you where to find what you're looking for. Of course, if what you want is something unusual, there may not be any "in stock", in which case, you'd likely get directed to someone who would do custom work of that type. Be prepared to wait a *long* time for the item, though, unless you can find a Creationer willing to take the job. And it will take even them a while. For custom work, you'd probably also be asked to supply the necessary materials, if they're exotic -- what those might be would be up to the GM's imagination.... Of the two items you mentioned (Computer Ops talisman and Ethereal weapons), both are probably readily available. There are probably a lot of older angels who have no computer experience, but need the skill; Jean's people probably make a lot of them. Of course, demand for them may also be high.... As far as I remember, there are no specifically-ethereal weapons; however, any celestial weapon (like the popular, and relatively common, flaming sword) will work fine in the Marches. Also, any corporeal weapon that's also a talisman for the weapon skill will probably manifest as that weapon in the Marches; the drawback is that such an item cannot be used celestially, since it's not a relic. Generally, a relic weapon will be more useful, though more expensive. Note that there are some other ways to acquire resources besides bugging your Superiors. Friendly Tethers often have some common items available for loan (see the L.Castellorum); they can also pass a request "upstairs" for something they don't have (especially if you have "credit" -- unused character points -- with your Superior). They can often help with Role development as well. Most IN GMs seem to give PCs a contact with someone else serving their Word; this person generally handles routine reports, and may be able to acquire common talismans and relics, with some advance notice. (These would be paid for out of earned character points, since they're coming indirectly from the Superior.) The contact may be at a Tether, if one is nearby, or may be an experienced Servitor somewhere in the area the PC is assigned to. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:35:51 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> servants of dead guys At 9:37 -0400 10/5/99, Liam Astley wrote: >From: Elizabeth McCoy > >> At 9:13 PM +0100 10/3/99, Liam Astley wrote: >> >another question - when a superior dies, does its followers automatically >> >lose all their choir and servitor attunements? >> >> This is in the GMG, if you haven't already been told... O:> Short >> answer: no, they don't lose their Choir and Servitor Attunements unless >> the _WORD_ itself is eradicated somehow, not just the current holder. >> (Lesser Words may well fade enough to cause Servitor Attunements to >> fail.) > >would this include falling? Falling (and redemption) is essentially the same as dead, for these purposes. > could there still be servitors of light >wandering around? (unlikely after all this time i know, but it would make a >cool plot hook). Been done already -- there's one in the L.Castellorum. It's a really nice bit. >actually, it just occured to me that the H&H book mentions an old servitor >of Luci who still hangs around his cathedral. would she still have his >attunements? Might, if she hasn't been attuned to some other Word, and had the Light attunements stripped. (I can see some AAs wondering if leaving such attunements might give Lucifer some limited link to such a Servitor -- it was all a very new situation at the time.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 09:40:49 -0700 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death Liam Astley wrote: > > Very good. Neatly explains why Azrael is so obscure, even in Heaven. > > And does he manifest as a black-robed skeleton with a scythe? > > Or as a cute goth chick? > > > > Earl > > > > cute goth chick! cute goth chick! cute goth chick! cute goth chick! cute > goth chick! > > *ahem* > > sorry, got a bit carried away there > > Yes, you did. IMHO, I'd say Azrael would probably have a very large wardrobe, in order to suit someone's expectations depending on culture and what would make them either most comfortable, or likely to repent. I'm sure the ol' sickle and skull is there to scare folks on the edge of Hell into rethinking a few things. In fact, I remember an episode of the show 'Monsters' where Death manifested as a doctor in order to openly prowl hospitals. I can see Azrael as a doctor, combat medic, Red Cross worker, EMT, robed skeleton, priest, nun, typical Western angel, and yes, even Gaiman's version, though I'm not sure that a great many people would take that form very -seriously-. If someone weren't familiar, they're probably going to look at that and go 'You're not -Death-!' incredulously. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 09:41:51 -0700 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> Sticky situation Neel Krishnaswami wrote:. > > If a demon beat up a human that a Malakite of Stone had befriended, then > that Malakite could beat up the demon with total impunity. (And in fact > David would be very upset if the angel didn't respond. As far as he was > concerned, you -were- your brother's keeper.) > And remember, Abel was killed with a -rock-. :) - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:38:48 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> APG question (forces/damage) At 2:21 PM +0100 10/5/99, Liam Astley wrote: >i think the answer is that the Symphony itself is constructed from these >three forces, therefore everything that is naturally a part of the Symphony >(ie just about anything except Remnants and some Undead) contains these >three "flavours". sure, ethereal beings don't have much use for Corp Forces. >so most of them are probably "corporeally challenged" and have only have 1 >or 2. but they are still linked to the Symphony as a whole, and so they >still retain that part that is corporeal. I see them as three dimensions needed for true "sentience." The Celestial is the Soul, the Will. The Ethereal is the Mind, the Memory. The Corporeal is the Substance. The Depth. The lack of any one Realm of Forces leads to a Remnant of some kind or other -- a being utterly not "right" with the Symphony. A Celestial in Heaven needs Corporeal Forces or they're ephemeral, without real substance. This is true metaphorically as well as physically -- a Seraph without Corporeal Forces would be utterly focused on the Abstract Truth, unable to relate it to his surroundings. A Cherub without Corporeal Forces would be fixated on Love of the entire Symphony, barely capable of motion in the world. An Ofanite without Corporeal Forces might travel eternally within its own thoughts, actual motion giving way to the thoughts of mind and soul -- a visionquest without an end. Corporealless Elohim would have no problems with subjectivity as they would be totally disassociated with their surroundings, looking in on them as they might look in on a television program they don't find interesting, and holding no opinions at all. Malakim would be expressions of virtue without temptation -- absolutists and inflexible in theory, but not interested in the reality. "Evil" is a concept, and must be opposed, but petty little physical evils aren't relevant, are they? Kyriotates become sheer chaos -- point of view and attention span becoming measured in nanoseconds, to the point of near incapacity to communicate. And Mercurians become -- for lack of a better word -- vapid. Nothing is of concern, nothing is of particular interest save how pretty something is and how soothing. Jarring things are avoided, happy things are stared at. On the dark side, Balseraphs lose all interest in convincing others of their lies, focusing on their own pure personal symphony -- perhaps reaching the point that they imagine they're interacting with the world when really they're sitting in a corner staring into space, turned into Solipsists. Djinn drown in their apathy, their surroundings no longer enough to draw them out of their shells even to be compulsive. No one cares, so what does any of it matter? Calabim only react to their surroundings violently -- there is no communication or interaction or even aim -- merely the release of destruction. Habbalah 'evolve beyond' caring about the world, their sweet punishments directed towards the Symphony as a whole (say, sitting in a room and singing the Song of Thunder over and over again) or towards themselves (self-flaggilation forcing them purer and stronger and purer and stronger), all without even the hollow attention to others and their purity. Lilim would retain their ability to sense Needs but would likely not be able to relate to any but the most esoteric, and have a lot of trouble assessing relative value/levels of Geas. ("You'll give me a new car for a day's worth of work, but I can't get a copy of "Atlas Shrugged" unless I commit to a year?") A Shedite becomes ravenous for corruption and decadence without even cursory attention to concealment or surroundings. And an Impudite becomes almost acestic -- apart from the world they live in, they sit decadantly apart and pick at Essence as it passes by. Even the addition of new Corporeal Forces leaves a person with a substantially different impression of their surroundings than they might have. In other words, the loss of *any* Realm of Forces creates a kind of Remnant. Celestials merely associate the total loss of Celestial Forces with the most tragic of these situations. - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:43:54 -0500 (CDT) From: paranial@creighton.edu Subject: IN> In Nomine: The Great War First a short vignette: Western Front 1916: Johnathan was dead. He knew it. Leg full of shrapnel, bullet to gut, lungs burned by mustard gas, there was no doubt. He was dead. There only needed for him him to draw his last breath. He had been expecting this for awhile, Kaiser Billy's boys had been hitting them pretty hard this week. The had even mede a bit of a gain, 15 yards. But they pressed back and got a bit back a few days ago, 5 yards. All around him peplole who had been here scince Marne, were dying like flies, what chance had he, a boy freash out of training. Just as his world began to darken. Johnathan began to feel a warm glow all over his body. His lungs hurt less and finally were whole. His other injuries soon followed and soon he was as good as new. He looked up and saw looking over, a man about his age in a German uniform. Johnathan reached for his knife. Turned to the Greman and stabbed him right in his heart. "Is that any way to treat someone who saved your life" The German asked in perfect english. "Saved my life?" Johnathan asked "You think I'm stupid you bloody Jerry" "I am an angel Johathan" The German replied. "You're a Jerry. You can't be an angel" Johanthan replied, then it dawned on him "By God, what have I done" "Don't worry" the angel replied "this is only a vessal, I'll be back, English this time. You have a great destiny Johnathan Horton." And with that the angel drew his last breath. "He knew my name" was all Johnathan said. Any ideas for a WWI campaign Bradley Paranial ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:49:06 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> servants of dead guys At 9:46 -0400 10/5/99, Liam Astley wrote: > but raphael died in combat on the >corporeal plane, and was presumably survived by hundreds (if not thousands) >of her servitors. i can't imagine that all of them would have given up their >Word and switched to another archangel. I suspect many of them are "in service to" Yves, but not Destiny servitors, per se. Some of them may be in service to Jean. (Both Raphael and Jean were once high-level subordinates of Yves, according to the APG, and Yves and the two Elohite Archangels probably had a lot in common.) > perhaps there is a still an >"academy" of Knowledge angels in heaven, maybe lead by an angel who has >taken the word of Knowledge again (but not yet risen to the status of >archangel). I believe that Knowledge has, in canon, *not* been reassigned yet, though I'm not sure if this has been stated anywhere published. >on a similar note, though most of oannes' followers may have gone to jordi >or maybe janus (angel of rain?), there's bound to be a few who remain loyal >to their superior, lurking down in the depths of the oceans. Quite possibly. Note that Seneschals *can't* usually switch Superiors -- they're Word-bound to their Tethers, which are, in turn, bound to their Superior's domain. They *can* be "in service to" someone else, but they're generally inextricably bound to their Superior's Word. Thus, they're the most likely survivors of the "old guard", at least in Heaven. (In Hell, they're a potential problem for whoever took over their old Superior's domain, which generally results in them getting killed, since the Tether will usually not be useful to the new Prince, unless he has the same Word as the old one.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:48:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Benjamin Acosta Subject: Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death From: Earl Wajenberg > > Very good. Neatly explains why Azrael is so obscure, even in Heaven. > And does he manifest as a black-robed skeleton with a scythe? > Or as a cute goth chick? I'd say a cute goth chick. Azrael is Grigori, the closest choir to humans, so it would make sense that Azrael's manifestation would be human-like. But on the other hand the black-robed skeleton is traditional. With Azrael's goal being to put people at ease about death I'd say he'd manifest with whatever appropriate form the deceased would be put at ease with. So those who are into tradition get the Grim Reaper and those who would be frightened by such a manifestation get Gaiman's interpetation instead. I personally would like to be picked up by the cute goth chick when I die. Or before I die works just as well. Incidentally, I remember reading either in the IPG or in Saminga's Revelations write-up that a Habbalite servitor of his came up with the Grim Reaper Schtick. So maybe Azrael doesn't use that form out of disgust. Besides, if he did the skeleton in black thing his quote would be in all caps :-) Ben, Elohite of Eli Angel of Neat Ideas ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:02:02 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> APG question (forces/damage) >Why would 17 Electronica Turbine 42 from LServitorum even *have* Corp >Forces? >Do Corp forces do ANYTHING for you in the Marches?? >Why would a native of the Marches develop them? >(I do notice that The Surgeon (Nightmare Fragment) has not Corp Forces, but >then why does Elder Thunder (Primal Spirit)? >I do notice that the Demonlings do not have Corp. (many lack Ethe as well) >forces either. Ethereals can generate vessels by themselves, thus they have a drive to become somewhat corporeal and should therefor have corporeal forces. Dream spirits are only fragmental spirits and may lack corporeal forces (and IMO they would also lack the ability to garner essence for building a vessel). >Another question, what good are Corp forces to a native of the Celestial >plane, or to anyone *on* the Celestial plane? It feels like the Celestial >plane is lesser than Earth because only two-thirds of your being is used >there. (Ethe forces are used there, I believe.) Some corporeal songs function in other planes, making the forces useful to have (no forces in the area no useage of those songs). Timothy, "Angel" of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:07:25 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> servants of dead guys >> >another question - when a superior dies, does its followers automatically >> >lose all their choir and servitor attunements? >> >> This is in the GMG, if you haven't already been told... O:> Short >> answer: no, they don't lose their Choir and Servitor Attunements unless >> the _WORD_ itself is eradicated somehow, not just the current holder. >> (Lesser Words may well fade enough to cause Servitor Attunements to >> fail.) >> > >would this include falling? could there still be servitors of light >wandering around? (unlikely after all this time i know, but it would make a >cool plot hook). >actually, it just occured to me that the H&H book mentions an old servitor >of Luci who still hangs around his cathedral. would she still have his >attunements? Probably would still have his attunements, because the Word of Light isn't going anywhere. IMC Lucifer still has the Word of Light, the few servitors of his that didn't Fall (or get destroyed just in case) have his old attunements and are attuned to the heavinly light still. Even In-Canon I would assume that most of his servitors sided with another Archangel and were reattuned. Light is a Word that isn't going to be given out or be very popular considering Lucifer's actions. Timothy, "Angel" of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 13:13:24 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death Benjamin Acosta wrote: > I'd say he'd manifest with whatever appropriate form the deceased > would be put at ease with. Terry Pratchett's Death was described as having altered form to fit expectations, for a while, but gave up and settled on the Grim Reaper. There's an amusing scene in "Pyramids" where Death comes for a pharaoh and gets asked, "If you're Death, why don't you look like the the Grim Giant Scarab Beetle?" TRIED THAT, GOT TIRED OF IT. "But- but- And you're suppose to have the Shepherd's Crook of the Otherworld." ... ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT THE BEETLE HERE? HOW WOULD IT CARRY IT? "Um..." (Grossly approximate quote from memory.) Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:16:58 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death >Incidentally, I remember reading either in the IPG or in Saminga's >Revelations write-up that a Habbalite servitor of his came up with the >Grim Reaper Schtick. So maybe Azrael doesn't use that form out of >disgust. A Calabite servitor actually, its mentioned in Heaven&Hell. He has a desk job now and makes his servitors wear the Reaper get up when doing their work. Sounds like a real sicko (which makes sense considering). It would be interesting if he came back into Saminga's favor (or went and made a deal with Nybbas) and got the Word Grim Reaper. Timothy, "Angel" of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:26:59 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death At 11:48 AM -0500 10/5/99, Benjamin Acosta wrote: >From: Earl Wajenberg > > > > Very good. Neatly explains why Azrael is so obscure, even in Heaven. > > And does he manifest as a black-robed skeleton with a scythe? > > Or as a cute goth chick? > >I'd say a cute goth chick. Azrael is Grigori, the closest choir to >humans, so it would make sense that Azrael's manifestation would be >human-like. Right. A cute goth chick. Who's *NINE* *FEET* *TALL!* "AHH! GIGANTIC CUTE GOTH CHICK! RUN!" - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:37:58 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> servants of dead guys At 11:07 AM -0600 10/5/99, Tim Groth wrote: > >Probably would still have his attunements, because the Word of Light isn't >going anywhere. IMC Lucifer still has the Word of Light, the few servitors >of his that didn't Fall (or get destroyed just in case) have his old >attunements and are attuned to the heavinly light still. Even In-Canon I >would assume that most of his servitors sided with another Archangel and >were reattuned. Light is a Word that isn't going to be given out or be >very popular considering Lucifer's actions. So... Here's a question, broader than Lucifer. Say your Superior is destroyed or Falls, but you remain a Servitor. You still have your attunements. Can you still use your rites? Are they tied to the Word or the Archangel? - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 13:42:32 -0400 From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: Re: IN> Demonic Words Steve Jessop wrote: > >On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Whistling in the Dark wrote: > >> What if *every* Demonic word is a Lie ... ? > >What if Demonic Words don't have any power? > >One of Lucifer's Lies is that the essence supplied to Word-bound demons >actually comes from their Words. Really, it comes from Hell. > > [Theory that it comes from the souls of the damned] That's how I ran it IMC, actually. Demons got Essence from torturing it out of the souls of the damned, and it was transmitted it to them via their Hearts. This meant that Renegades stopped regenerating Essence (making Essence-generating artifacts extremely useful to them), and that a Prince could increase a demon's Essence flow as a reward or punishment. This also explained why demons of the Game get a free bonus essence; Asmodeus controlled the allocation of damned souls and favored his own servitors. I did it this way because it gave a concrete motivation for utterly self-interested demons to engage in the temptation of humans. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswv.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 13:44:31 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Demonic Words Neel Krishnaswami wrote: > Demons got Essence from torturing it out of the souls of the damned, > [...] > I did it this way because it gave a concrete motivation for utterly > self-interested demons to engage in the temptation of humans. It's also very like the depiction of Hell in "The Screwtape Letters" by C. S. Lewis. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 12:47:57 -0400 From: Ben Aldred Subject: Re: IN> AZRAEL -- Archangel of Death At 09:40 AM 10/6/99 -0700, you wrote: > > >Liam Astley wrote: > >> > Very good. Neatly explains why Azrael is so obscure, even in Heaven. >> > And does he manifest as a black-robed skeleton with a scythe? >> > Or as a cute goth chick? >> > I bet he even shows up as a tiny skeletal rat in a robe from time to time. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:57:04 -0500 From: "Trent" Subject: IN> IN Fiction This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_00FD_01BF0F31.1F916660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was skiming through the INC today and when I came to the Fanfiction = =3D section I had an inspiration thingie [arrg! i hate failing a Language: = =3D English roll]. I thought 'Wouldn't it be cool if SJGames published some = =3D IN Fiction like the Car Wars book I saw recently on the Daily =3D Illuminator. I figure the first book or two would be fairly standard IN = =3D stuff, cold war between Heaven and Hell, etc, but later on you could do = =3D some really cool stuff like the Dark Vicory Campain world. Unfortuanattly a voice in the back of my mind says that the lisence from = =3D Croc prohibits this stuff, but surely that's just Blasphertic influece, = =3D from somewhere. Trent Ofanite of Doubt - ------=_NextPart_000_00FD_01BF0F31.1F916660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I was skiming through the INC today and when I came = to the=20 Fanfiction =3D
section I had an inspiration thingie [arrg! i hate = failing a=20 Language: =3D
English roll]. I thought 'Wouldn't it be cool if = SJGames=20 published some =3D
IN Fiction like the Car Wars book I saw recently = on the=20 Daily =3D
Illuminator.  I figure the first book or two would be = fairly=20 standard IN =3D
stuff, cold war between Heaven and Hell, etc, but = later on you=20 could do =3D
some really cool stuff like the Dark Vicory Campain=20 world.

Unfortuanattly a voice in the back of my mind says that = the=20 lisence from =3D
Croc prohibits this stuff, but surely that's just = Blasphertic=20 influece, =3D
from somewhere.

Trent Ofanite of=20 Doubt


- ------=_NextPart_000_00FD_01BF0F31.1F916660-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:27:40 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> servants of dead guys At 13:37 -0400 10/5/99, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >Say your Superior is destroyed or Falls, but you remain a Servitor. >You still have your attunements. > >Can you still use your rites? Are they tied to the Word or the Archangel? Rites require the active participation of the Superior, so they stop working as soon as the Superior's connection to his Word is broken. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:36:17 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Demonic Words >On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Whistling in the Dark wrote: > >> What if *every* Demonic word is a Lie ... ? > >What if Demonic Words don't have any power? Hmmm, that raises really big problems. First off what about Attunements/Distinctions. This would indicate that merely raw power is neccesary to create them and that a Word just gets you really worked up about a concept making the individual make Attunements/Distinctions focusing on that Word. But the bigger logistic problem with demonic words not having any power (and the later discusions about not getting essence naturally at all) is that demons do relate to the Symphony, just in a very twisted way. Lucifer was the first angel to discover dissoence (first hand I would imagine) and that one note would still be bouncing around in the Symphony. Imagine all the noise that the Fall created, the Symphony now has underlying it Lucifer's symphony. Remember what happens if the demons win, Lucifer was right, God isn't a real entity and the Symphony is up for bids to the one with the strongest Will. Demons can impress their Will upon the Symphony, basicly taking their demonic symphony stick and beating the hell out of some real part of the Symphony until its gets into line with the demon. Lucifer has a very big demonic symphony stick, as Balseraphs in general do. All demonic Word may be a lie, but until disproved (and their built one on top of another and on evidence and the like) their going to be around and believed by the Symphony (and Angels, which is probably where most of their strenght comes, especially since Gabriel has flipped out over the shared Word it makes the Host believe on of Lucifer's lies). Lucifer may eventually find a way to actually give out Words (most likely by demonic victory) then it'll have been true, until then its a lie that is believed by the Host, the Symphony, the Horde and maybe even God. Thus Lucifer has succeded in the Balseraphic dream, to change the Symphony with Will alone. As another possibility Lucifer might actually know how to give out Words, having been on the Seraphim council, being the Archangel of Light and generally knowledgable about how the Symphony worked. Since he wasn't likely to have lots of imedaite support even if his Rebellion was a success he must have known a way to give out the Word he promised (when he was recruiting he was still a Seraph and couldn't have lied to get recruits). Basicly demons do connect with the Symphony, but in an abusive relationship. As it stands they are offesnive to the majority of it, except for where the themes that Lucifer brought to it play loudly. This back door into reality is what demons use along with their resonance to get anything done. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 12:20:55 PDT From: "Perry Lloyd" Subject: Re: IN> APG question (forces/damage) On the three realms: >I see them as three dimensions needed for true "sentience." The >Celestial is the Soul, the Will. The Ethereal is the Mind, the >Memory. The Corporeal is the Substance. The Depth. The lack of any >one Realm of Forces leads to a Remnant of some kind or other -- a >being utterly not "right" with the Symphony. A Celestial in Heaven >needs Corporeal Forces or they're ephemeral, without real substance. >This is true metaphorically as well as physically -- a Seraph without >Corporeal Forces would be utterly focused on the Abstract Truth, >unable to relate it to his surroundings >Even the addition of new Corporeal Forces leaves a person with a >substantially different impression of their surroundings than they >might have. How so? Perception is allocated to the *Celestial* sphere of forces, as is movement in the Celestial plane (movement being interaction with surroundings). Will *replaces* strength on the Celestial plane just as Perception *replaces* Agility. There is NOTHING Corporeal in the Celestial plane. No bodies, nothing physical, only souls and intelligences. How am I wrong? - -Perry perrylloyd@hotmail.com "Something that looks like Godzilla wearing a giant octopus hat won't be hard to find." - Peter Venkman on Cthulu The Real Ghostbusters ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1355 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.