From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Oct 14 12:08:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA22114 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:08:11 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id MAA11645 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:05:26 -0500 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:05:26 -0500 Message-Id: <199910141705.MAA11645@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1362 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, October 14 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1362 In this digest: Re: IN> some questions on things celestial Re: IN> some questions on things celestial Re: IN> some questions on things celestial Re: IN> some questions on things celestial Re: IN> some questions on things celestial Re: IN> Questions, again IN> Redeeming Bals (Re: some questions on things celestial) Re: IN> Redeeming Bals (Re: some questions on things celestial) Re: IN> some questions on things celestial Re: IN> some questions on things celestial Re: IN> some questions on things celestial Re: IN> some questions on things celestial Re: IN> some questions on things celestial [FLUFF?] Re: IN> some questions on things celestial Re: IN> some questions on things celestial [FLUFF?] Re: IN> Questions, again Re: IN> some questions on things celestial Re: IN> Questions, again Re: IN> Questions, again Re: IN> some questions on things celestial Re: IN> some questions on things celestial Re: IN> Questions, again Re: IN> Redeeming Bals (Re: some questions on things celestial) Re: IN> Redeeming Bals (Re: some questions on things celestial) Re: IN> Redeeming Bals (Re: some questions on things celestial) IN> DEAD TOPIC: NO MUSIC THREADS! IN> Ofanim in Limbo (Re: some questions on things celestial) IN> Cartoons - no off-topic (Re: Questions, again) RE: IN> Ofanim in Limbo (Re: some questions on things celestial) IN> Nitpicking Rites (RE: Ofanim in Limbo) Re: IN> Another slew of questions Re: IN> some questions on things celestial RE: IN> Nitpicking Rites (RE: Ofanim in Limbo) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 14:29:49 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> some questions on things celestial >>I'd rule: >>#1: it doesn't work. >>#2: It loses them. Snick. And condemns them to isolation and insanity. Bad >> Kyrio, no donut. >> >I don't know it could be an interesting plot seed to have something happen >with that. say one of the early Kyrios (like Jordi) tried sending a few >forces (say 9 for someone as powerful as Jordi) into limbo to see what >happened back before anyone knew. these forces got stuck there and after >10,000 years or so finally figured a way to get back and are now very >insane, very confused and very angry. which actually brings up a question. > can an angel fall while in limbo? I wouldn't think so because of the lack >of any sort of rolls to cause a fall. This could be an interesting plot seed. Seraphim could Fall in limbo, lying to themselves would inflict dissidence and may cause them to Fall while in Limbo. Since no resonance works in Limbo a Cherub can not Fall while in Limbo. Ofanim technically should be piling on dissidence by being trapped in Limbo, but that would be cruel and if they kept themselves entertained (doing what ever their mind can come up with to occupy its rolling energy) they could be spared. Elohim really don't have an option to do anything non-objective in Limbo, though they may loose enough of their composure that they fall shortly after getting out. A Malakim oath may be violated by being in Limbo (a badly worded oath most likely) and would resault in a discordiant wreck of Malakim getting out (if it did at all). Kyrios generally can't go, but I like the idea of powerful ones splitting up to see what would happen to those isolated forces. On a related note its kinda odd that Jordi is so adapt at creating/modifing vessels but is from the choir that has them only in specific instances. Mercurians can't do anything that would cause them dissidence while in Limbo. Basically an angel couldn't be manouvered into a situation where they fell while in limbo, there is nothing to manouver them, however they cause themselves to fall in reaction to being in limbo (the Ofanite thing is truly cruel, and only a really sick and literal GM would start heaping dissidence on an Ofanite traped in Limbo). Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:27:18 -0600 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> some questions on things celestial Since a Balseraphic resonance makes things TRUE for the Balseraph (who cannot "lie") and for the person to whom the Balseraph speaks, what would happen if a Balseraph told an angel, "I want to redeem"? Ben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:44:38 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> some questions on things celestial At 3:27 PM -0600 10/13/99, Ben Glickler wrote: >Since a Balseraphic resonance makes things TRUE for the Balseraph (who >cannot "lie") and for the person to whom the Balseraph speaks, what would >happen if a Balseraph told an angel, "I want to redeem"? That Balseraph would deeply, truly believe he wants to redeem, and if his resonance roll was successful the angel would believe it too. This is not the same thing as the Balseraph being ready for or truly seeking redemption. His selfish, personal symphony would be twisted around the concept of 'redemption' and the personal glory of becoming an angel, and naturally he would expect the angel would want to help him at this, and certainly wouldn't put the kibosh on his path to redemption by hindering him, hurting him, destroying his vessel and sending him back to Hell, and so forth. When the Malakite, say, had the resonance wear off... well, "angry" wouldn't be the term for it.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:09:29 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> some questions on things celestial From: Ben Glickler > Since a Balseraphic resonance makes things TRUE for the Balseraph (who > cannot "lie") and for the person to whom the Balseraph speaks, what would > happen if a Balseraph told an angel, "I want to redeem"? Unless the Bal is holding some Green Stamps, he's let himself in for a world of hurt... *g* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:26:07 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> some questions on things celestial At 17:27 -0400 10/13/99, Ben Glickler wrote: >Since a Balseraphic resonance makes things TRUE for the Balseraph (who >cannot "lie") and for the person to whom the Balseraph speaks, what would >happen if a Balseraph told an angel, "I want to redeem"? They'd both believe it... for a while. Unless the target summoned his Superior to do it right away, though, the Liar could probably get away with it long enough to accomplish whatever it was trying to do. (Probably keep said angel from shredding it on the spot.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Oct 99 08:26:34 PDT From: "Azrael" Subject: Re: IN> Questions, again From: > Although talking about Manga, have you seen Devil Man? > The first video is great, and well worth a watch, although the second video > throws out everything tehy built up in the first one. Yes I have seen Devil Man. I would love to convert that into a campaign but... I just cant see how any help from anyone out there? BTW thanx for naming the T'formers episode I think I may go rent it and participate in some nostalgia. No it was Phiranacons they were organic life forms. Your memory for deails is vastly superioir to mine. Azrael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:41:48 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Redeeming Bals (Re: some questions on things celestial) At 3:27 PM -0600 10/13/99, Ben Glickler wrote: >Since a Balseraphic resonance makes things TRUE for the Balseraph (who >cannot "lie") and for the person to whom the Balseraph speaks, what would >happen if a Balseraph told an angel, "I want to redeem"? For the duration, it would believe it wanted to redeem. If it couldn't keep believing that in the face of _being_ redeemed, of course, it would die. C'est la vie, or however it's spelled. O:> Of course, if it rolls a 111 on its resonance during that, the GM is perfectly justified in letting the Bal know that it realizes the TRUTH of this statement -- it realizes it is warped and broken! A twisted Seraph! Oh, the joy of feathered wings...! Redeemed Ex-Bal . o O (Uh... How the heck did _this_ happen...? What was in that drink I had last night?) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:38:38 -0600 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Redeeming Bals (Re: some questions on things celestial) Ok, say you're a Balseraph of Malphas or something, and you somehow (song of charms + resonance) whip out a resonance roll that makes it "true" for another Balseraph that he's a nasty, twisted angel and redemption is what he wants? Same result? Of course, since you know believe it to be true as well, you'd probably squish him. Hmmm. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:07:17 -0700 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> some questions on things celestial At 02:29 PM 10/13/99 -0600, you wrote: >Limbo. Basically an angel couldn't be manouvered into a situation where >they fell while in limbo, there is nothing to manouver them, however they >cause themselves to fall in reaction to being in limbo (the Ofanite thing >is truly cruel, and only a really sick and literal GM would start heaping >dissidence on an Ofanite traped in Limbo). Dissonance is not the only path to a Fall. A Seraph especially could be trapped by Limbo into falling. He sits, perhaps, for days - subjective, of course, as he can measure time only by his internal time-sense and maybe the regular flow of Essence. His Heart is broken, or somehow unavailable to him; otherwise, he wouldn't /be/ in Limbo. He also knows, however, that his friends on Earth were with him when his Vessel died, and he trusts them to send help if they can. But no one has sent anything yet. All he can feel is the gradual gathering of Essence within him. His friends aren't sending Essence. Therefore they must either be dead, or not want to help. But they were about to win the battle - surely his friends must still be alive. His friends aren't sending Essence. Therefore they either are ignoring him, or are ignorant of him. But they would have checked to see if he was in Trauma. His friends aren't sending Essence. Therefore they are ignoring him. His friends are ignoring him in his plight. As he can't ask the Symphony, he must assume that his logic is true. His friends are ignoring him. He would have sent them Essence if they needed it. They were his /friends/. His friends are ignoring him when he would have helped them. They must not really like him. His friends aren't really his friends. If he can't trust them, who can he trust? Certainly not the others who said they were his friends - they haven't sent anything either. At least the demons are honest about their hatred of Heaven. Demons tell the truth; his friends lie. Which is he going to trust more? Go from there. No mechanics involved; just a logical Seraph. - -EDG apologies for all the line breaks. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 18:30:06 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> some questions on things celestial >Dissonance is not the only path to a Fall. > >A Seraph especially could be trapped by Limbo into falling. He sits, >perhaps, for days - subjective, of course, as he can measure time only by >his internal time-sense and maybe the regular flow of Essence. His Heart >is broken, or somehow unavailable to him; otherwise, he wouldn't /be/ in >Limbo. He also knows, however, that his friends on Earth were with him >when his Vessel died, and he trusts them to send help if they can. But no >one has sent anything yet. All he can feel is the gradual gathering of >Essence within him. > >His friends aren't sending Essence. Therefore they must either be dead, or >not want to help. But they were about to win the battle - surely his >friends must still be alive. > >His friends aren't sending Essence. Therefore they either are ignoring >him, or are ignorant of him. But they would have checked to see if he was >in Trauma. > >His friends aren't sending Essence. Therefore they are ignoring him. > >His friends are ignoring him in his plight. As he can't ask the Symphony, >he must assume that his logic is true. > >His friends are ignoring him. He would have sent them Essence if they >needed it. They were his /friends/. > >His friends are ignoring him when he would have helped them. They must not >really like him. > >His friends aren't really his friends. If he can't trust them, who can he >trust? Certainly not the others who said they were his friends - they >haven't sent anything either. At least the demons are honest about their >hatred of Heaven. > >Demons tell the truth; his friends lie. Which is he going to trust more? > >Go from there. No mechanics involved; just a logical Seraph. The logic includes lying (by the standpoint of heaven which is the only one that matters for angelic dissidence), incuring dissidence, causing the Seraph Fall. Dissidence is just the measurement of how much your shoving yourself against your nature, and to angels sounds something like what would happen if NIN did a cover of the Symphony. Dissonance in game mechanics is just measuring this. It is the only way to fall, but sometimes it doesn't directly fit the mechanics (mechanics are like that). A Seraph following this line of logic is playing with their personal symphony, deviating it from the actual Symphony. This is dissidence, just in their case their constantly tinkering not doing descrete actions that jar them and produce sudden distortions in their perception of the Symphony. In the line of reasoning above the Seraph does only a few outright lies, but has been gradually messing with their own nature. Basicly the player decides that their character goes nutty in Limbo, in a way that shoves them away from divinity. Most other choirs can't Fall in this manner, Elohim being a notable exception. They can come out of Limbo in a mindset that'll lead them to actions that'll make them Fall but their isn't much one can do in Limbo thus not much to incur dissidence. Though the choir that has it worst in Limbo are the Ofanim. Even if your not being a schmuck and dumping dissidence on them by literal interpretation of their dissidence condition they're going to get bored out of their skulls and probably come out of Limbo a little traumatized or totally insane. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:45:40 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> some questions on things celestial From: Tim Groth > This is dissidence, just in their case their constantly > tinkering not doing descrete actions that jar them and produce sudden > distortions in their perception of the Symphony. But they have no connection to the Symphony while in Limbo, and thus nothing but their own internal compass of logic to guide them while there. The Seraph will not be acquiring any Dissonance while in Limbo, because it is cut off from everything. Once it manages to fight its way clear of Limbo, however... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 20:04:29 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> some questions on things celestial >> distortions in their perception of the Symphony. > >But they have no connection to the Symphony while in Limbo, and thus nothing >but their own internal compass of logic to guide them while there. The >Seraph will not be acquiring any Dissonance while in Limbo, because it is >cut off from everything. > >Once it manages to fight its way clear of Limbo, however... Hmm then Limbo should be doubly problamatic for angels, at least upon entry. But they do have some degree of connection to the Symphony, they do gain essence. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 23:25:47 -0500 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> some questions on things celestial [FLUFF?] At 6:30 PM -0600 10/13/99, Tim Groth wrote: >only one that matters for angelic dissidence), incuring dissidence, causing ^^^^^^^^^^ Dissonance. Dissonance. Dissonance. (As a Malakite of Fate, in service to Princess Beth, I had to point it out.) >the Seraph Fall. Dissidence is just the measurement of how much your >shoving yourself against your nature, and to angels sounds something like >what would happen if NIN did a cover of the Symphony. I don't know. If you take Gary Larson's (the Far Side) view of God seriously, I can see the Angels of Heaven jamming to some of good 'ole Trent Reznor's music. (Either that, or having listened to 'the Fragile' for the past four days has been effecting my mind. . . At least, I _know_ Lucy likes 'Heresy' from Downward Spiral!) (Oh yeah, and _please_ do not start a favorate music of the Celestials from this thread. We've beaten that horse long-long-long ago.) Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://www.best.com/~lyceum/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 01:12:41 EDT From: BillionSix@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> some questions on things celestial In a message dated 10/13/99 4:27:39 PM Central Daylight Time, ben@zianet.com writes: << Since a Balseraphic resonance makes things TRUE for the Balseraph (who cannot "lie") and for the person to whom the Balseraph speaks, what would happen if a Balseraph told an angel, "I want to redeem"? >> They'd better redeem him quickly, before the resonance wore off. :) Rev. Brian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 00:44:45 -0700 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> some questions on things celestial [FLUFF?] Shadowstar wrote: > > >the Seraph Fall. Dissidence is just the measurement of how much your > >shoving yourself against your nature, and to angels sounds something like > >what would happen if NIN did a cover of the Symphony. > > I don't know. If you take Gary Larson's (the Far Side) view of God > seriously, I can see the Angels of Heaven jamming to some of good 'ole > Trent Reznor's music. > > (Either that, or having listened to 'the Fragile' for the past four days > has been effecting my mind. . . At least, I _know_ Lucy likes 'Heresy' > from Downward Spiral!) > > (Oh yeah, and _please_ do not start a favorate music of the Celestials > from this thread. We've beaten that horse long-long-long ago.) > > Nope, but speaking of NIN, -appropriate- tunes to play while Shedim are 'at play' can be found on 'The Downward Spiral'. At the end of "Mr. Self-Destruct" there is a very unusual collection of sampled and altered sound/music. It's really rather unsettling. I use that as what a Shedite sounds like from a Symphonic standpoint since they do not correspond to any instrument made by humanity. So, what other music is not what Celestials -listen- to, but good to -play- while you have a game running. Any Baroque choral stuff works well for angels, especially a nice Agnus Dei or any of Bach's sacred music, but only in 'stereotypical' situations. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 20:13:04 +1000 From: bichwa@telstra.easymail.com.au Subject: Re: IN> Questions, again >> I can't really see this being done unintentionally by any of the >Superiors that have had centuries if not millenia to figure >out how stuff >like that could go wrong. Of course the main phrase there is >unintentionally. What I have absolutely no >trouble imagining is a DP >deciding that he didn't like a servitor but wasn't willing to forceshred >them, perhaps because >of a unique attunement, song, or just plain curiosity > >but surely if DPs were aware that they could do this, they'd be aware that >the others could as well. cue mucho paranoia and force checking Your point being? I'm sorry, but I just can't imagine any DP actually trusting any of the others, even those they're allied with. It's not that different from Cel song of form anyway - just slightly sneakier. By the time that anyone rose to DP level, I think a little bit of paranoia would be a good thing - after all: "Paranoia doesn't mean the whole world really isn't out to get you." >> I can also see this happening if you decide to be a not happy GM to >your players > >i'm always a happy GM. it's just i'm happiest when doing something horrible >to my players :) Have you tried playing HOL? >surely the movie featured optimus dying. he got brought back to life in a >later episode of the series. mind you, i was always more a fan of the comic >than the cartoons, which had a different continuity You're right, but the super enourmous power source the Omnicron is first really gone into detail in the movie - I was actually discussing both the movie and teh episode without saying which section was about which >>I've always found Transformers and GI Joe a very good source of stories, >and at the moment am running a demonic >campaign (see! I am on subject!) >using alternate vessels (guess who?) which is enourmously fun. Giant Robots, >and the >battle for the Apocalypse, what more could you want > >i'm sure i read a story somewhere, ages ago, that featured a battle of >arnageddon with jesus piloting a battlemech. can't remember where i read it >or who wrote it though Sounds good - anyone else know? If we're talking about strange armageddon stories (please, lets) the strangest one I ever saw was in a series which I forget, where everyone got fed up with the fighting and sat down to play checkers. Then God came up and said that the victor of the game would determine the winner of Armageddon (which would destroy the world). So they stopped playing. On that note... Kris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 00:05:12 +0100 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> some questions on things celestial From: Ben Glickler > Since a Balseraphic resonance makes things TRUE for the Balseraph (who > cannot "lie") and for the person to whom the Balseraph speaks, what would > happen if a Balseraph told an angel, "I want to redeem"? > for about five minutes he'd think he wanted to redeem (probably without being interested in the actual personality changes necessary for redemption). then he'd go back to being an evil guy again. liam ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 00:01:58 +0100 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> Questions, again - ----- Original Message ----- From: Prodigal > Machines, and Big Guy and Rusty the Boy Robot. > > there's a cartoon of the big guy and rusty? liam ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:16:56 +0100 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> Questions, again From: > > > >but surely if DPs were aware that they could do this, they'd be aware that > >the others could as well. cue mucho paranoia and force checking > > Your point being? I'm sorry, but I just can't imagine any DP actually trusting any of the others, even those they're allied with. It's not that different from Cel song of form anyway - just slightly sneakier. By the time that anyone rose to DP level, I think a little bit of paranoia would be a good thing - after all: > "Paranoia doesn't mean the whole world really isn't out to get you." > well, i just meant that all the DPs would be aware of this spying tactic, so would probably have come up with a way of dealing with it by now. hence, defunct spying tactic > > > >i'm always a happy GM. it's just i'm happiest when doing something horrible > >to my players :) > > Have you tried playing HOL? > nah, but i've read the book. it scared (scarred?) me > You're right, but the super enourmous power source the Omnicron is first really gone into detail in the movie - I was actually discussing both the movie and teh episode without saying which section was about which > yeah, i vaguely remember seeing the cartoon. stuff like that always used to confuse me as a kid, coz in the comics it was called the creation matrix > > Sounds good - anyone else know? If we're talking about strange armageddon stories (please, lets) the strangest one I ever saw was in a series which I forget, where everyone got fed up with the fighting and sat down to play checkers. Then God came up and said that the victor of the game would determine the winner of Armageddon (which would destroy the world). So they stopped playing. > there's another one i read (more recently) in a sci0fi short stories collection. basically armageddon arrives and humanity is told it must go as one to face the legions of darkness at megiddo. however the military have by now developed war-robots, and despite the protestions of religious types they send them instead. after the big battle the demons have been defeated, though the entire robot army is trashed as well. cue much world-wide cheering as they await the Rapture. then god turns up at megiddo and raises the robot army from the dead and takes them to heaven. cue much world-wide whinging when the doors of heaven close for the last time :) liam ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:24:58 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> some questions on things celestial if he makes his resonance roll and the target fails to resist, they believe him. if he misses his resonance roll or the target makes their resistance roll, they don't believe him and in most cases we have a soon to be smudge that used to be a Balseraph - - Dennis H, Groome V "Amo Nympham" ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -Stabbing Westward, "ACF" - -----Original Message----- From: Ben Glickler To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 4:26 PM Subject: Re: IN> some questions on things celestial >Since a Balseraphic resonance makes things TRUE for the Balseraph (who >cannot "lie") and for the person to whom the Balseraph speaks, what would >happen if a Balseraph told an angel, "I want to redeem"? > >Ben > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:36:49 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> some questions on things celestial At 13:03 -0400 10/13/99, Ben Aldred wrote: > which actually brings up a question. > can an angel fall while in limbo? I wouldn't think so because of the lack >of any sort of rolls to cause a fall. This could be an interesting plot seed. I don't see why not -- Falling can be a matter of choice, and any angel who can wind up in Limbo is already having some problems. And there are ways to generate dissonance, even in Limbo, at least for some Choirs. Likewise, it's possible Limbo might drive a demon semi-sane enough to seek redemption when they get out. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:43:41 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Questions, again From: Liam > > From: Prodigal > > > Machines, and Big Guy and Rusty the Boy Robot. > > there's a cartoon of the big guy and rusty? Yes, which started about 3 weeks ago, on Fox Kids. In Dallas, it airs at 10:30 Saturday mornings. We're in the Central Time Zone, so adjust accordingly. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:40:40 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Redeeming Bals (Re: some questions on things celestial) At 19:38 -0400 10/13/99, Ben Glickler wrote: >Ok, say you're a Balseraph of Malphas or something, and you somehow (song of >charms + resonance) whip out a resonance roll that makes it "true" for >another Balseraph that he's a nasty, twisted angel and redemption is what he >wants? Same result? Probably. >Of course, since you know believe it to be true as well, you'd probably >squish him. Hmmm. Or score some points with the Game by turning him over to them. On the other hand, when it wore off, the Game might want to talk to *you* about why you're trying to convince other demons to be traitors.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:52:26 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Redeeming Bals (Re: some questions on things celestial) Scenario: A mixed group of angels corners a balseraph. It resonnates and convinces itself and at least some of them that it wants to redeem. The Mercurian of Novalis in the party invokes her and she obliges. "Hey, look, Mom! It wants to redeem!" Novalis sizes up the situation perfectly, but decides to exploit it. She has (say) three minutes until the resonnance wears off all the small fry. So she immediately folds the balseraph in her arms and gives it the old college try. Odds are that the balseraph will simply fall apart. We're told this can happen even with Renegades seeking genuine redemption. But MAYBE we get a new seraph out of it, slightly crisped perhaps, and possibly looking more like a seraph-wannabe reliever. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:54:43 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Redeeming Bals (Re: some questions on things celestial) At 5:38 PM -0600 10/13/99, Ben Glickler wrote: >Ok, say you're a Balseraph of Malphas or something, and you somehow (song of >charms + resonance) whip out a resonance roll that makes it "true" for >another Balseraph that he's a nasty, twisted angel and redemption is what he >wants? Same result? Basically. (And you definitely want to lower his Will -- otherwise you're probably out of luck...) >Of course, since you know believe it to be true as well, you'd probably >squish him. Hmmm. Yup. Oops. O:> - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:02:12 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> DEAD TOPIC: NO MUSIC THREADS! Look, people, this is in the "Welcome to the list" message you all got... DO NOT START "FAVORITE MUSIC" THREADS! Not "favorite music of a Band/Choir," Not "good music to play during games." NOTHING. It's BEEN DONE. If you must do it, then do it _off-list_ and put up a web page with the emailed results and tell us the URL. BUT DON'T DO IT ON THE LIST. (Geeze, and Shadowstar even _told_ you not to!) (Why, _yes_, this topic _has_ come up and spammed the blessed list more than once and I'm sick of it!) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:59:37 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Ofanim in Limbo (Re: some questions on things celestial) At 6:30 PM -0600 10/13/99, Tim Groth wrote: > Though the choir that has it worst in Limbo are the Ofanim. Even >if your not being a schmuck and dumping dissidence (dissonance) * > on them by literal >interpretation of their dissidence condition they're going to get bored out (dissonance condition) ** >of their skulls and probably come out of Limbo a little traumatized or >totally insane. A literal intrepretation of their dissonance condition has them perfectly "safe" in Limbo. They literally _cannot_ move. No matter how much they try. This is not dissonant (though it is unpleasant). It is only dissonance if they have a choice of moving (generally 'moving in a way that does Good in the Symphony' such as rescuing people from in front of cars or trains and whatnot) -- and _don't._ Ow, dissonance. * Mmm, Nitpicking Essence. ** Mmm, more Nitpicking Essence. - --Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Prince.Beth.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:05:19 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Cartoons - no off-topic (Re: Questions, again) At 9:43 AM -0500 10/14/99, Prodigal wrote: >From: Liam >> >> From: Prodigal >> >> > Machines, and Big Guy and Rusty the Boy Robot. >> >> there's a cartoon of the big guy and rusty? > >Yes, which started about 3 weeks ago, on Fox Kids. > >In Dallas, it airs at 10:30 Saturday mornings. We're in the Central Time >Zone, so adjust accordingly. Take it to email, guys, unless you can insert IN content (as is in the other thread). - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:08:55 -0400 From: "Chris Bergstresser" Subject: RE: IN> Ofanim in Limbo (Re: some questions on things celestial) > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > [mailto:owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com]On Behalf Of Elizabeth McCoy > > * Mmm, Nitpicking Essence. > ** Mmm, more Nitpicking Essence. > Don't rites only work once a day? - -- Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:53:45 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Nitpicking Rites (RE: Ofanim in Limbo) At 12:08 PM -0400 10/14/99, Chris Bergstresser wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com >> [mailto:owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com]On Behalf Of Elizabeth McCoy >> >> * Mmm, Nitpicking Essence. >> ** Mmm, more Nitpicking Essence. >> > Don't rites only work once a day? It's a multi-use Rite, and I'm a Djinn Princess. };> - --Beth, Demon Princess of Nitpicking http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/articles/INChar/Demons/Prince.Beth.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:54:37 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> Another slew of questions Walter Milliken wrote: > > At 16:36 -0400 10/4/99, Chris Bergstresser wrote: > > 1) How do Eli's rites work, exactly? I'm guessing the sex one just > >requires finding someone -- celestial or otherwise -- who'd be up for it. > >Would same-sex sex work for the purpose of the rite? > > I would generally think so. However, I'd require that the sex be *caring* > sex, and not just mechanical (which is how I interpret Andre's similar Rite). > This may make it a bit harder to accomplish.... I fall somewhere along those lines. In Eli's eyes, sex is both about proCreation and about forging ties between individuals (an act of creation with less physical results). > > > The "succeed at 3 > >Precision skill roles in a row" means pretty much you'd just have to head > >down to the target range and shoot off a couple of clips (or similar). > > I would probably require the skill rolls to be related to making something > of signifcance (or maybe destroying something to make way for something > better, since Eli also has that aspect). I'm not sure I'd count mere practice. Ditto. It has to be something of import. > > > 2) Up to now I've been kind of assuming if you spend essence to boost a > >song you get a bonus to perform it, plus any side effects from increased > >essence. So, the Ethereal Song of Entropy takes a minimum of 1 essence, and > >if I spend 3 I get a +2 to perform it and it does (check digit * 3) damage. > >Is this correct, or does essence spend to raise chance of success separate > >from essence to increase a song's power? > > I believe the two effects are separate. I certainly treat them that way > in my campaign. Those are, canonically, separate. You can either boost your performance role or enhance effects (if the Song allows that) with each point of Essence. You can do both for one Song performance but you have to decide where each point of Essence goes. > > > 3) Are there any target numbers in the game that *can't* be improved by > >spending essence? > > Dissonance rolls and the like, I think, are about the only ones that can't. Not many. I don't think you can consciously spend Essence to help tether creation. > > > 4) I had an angel go into celestial form on Earth and then try to perform > >a corporeal song. I let them. Was that correct? > > I don't see why this shouldn't work, unless it was a Song that affected > the singer only, in which case I'd have to look at the effect to see if > I thought it would work. What he said. > > > 5) How bad is it that celestials are being obvious on the corporeal > >plane? I've had a group rather noisily and obviously popping supernatural > >powers in from of humans. Not a *lot* of humans, but a couple of security > >guards. How do people handle this in their campaign? As Walter said, both Superior displeasure, and a cleanup crew can handle it. There's always the possibility of other celestials homing in on the noise. OTOH, many GMs just let the chips fall. The guards, if they are brave and honest, will report the weirdness. Maybe it ends up on the cover of the Midnight Star, maybe on the 6 o'clock news. Cleanup can be an adventure in and of itself. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:01:26 -0400 From: John Karakash - Lucent ASCC Subject: Re: IN> some questions on things celestial Walter Milliken wrote: > >this may be more GM prefrence but could also make for an intresting NPC > >also in revelations III, any celestial can decide to go to limbo and in another book a Kyrotate can divide forces between the corporial and celestial realm but on eithor realm only acts every other turn, and that all parts of a Kyrotate can access the Kyrotates essence > >question: so what happens to a Kyrotate who consiously sends part of his forces to limbo > > I don't think it's possible -- Limbo is cut off from the rest of the Symphony, > and I don't think *part* of a Kyrio could go there. Since Kyrios can't go > there under "normal" conditions, there's no reason to believe they can go > there under abnormal ones (such as deliberately abandoning a vessel), anyway. > Presumably the few Kyrios with vessels *could* get to Limbo, but I'd certainly > expect the whole Kyrio would have to go there, or none of it. It's all or nothing. I like to think of Limbo as a state of being rather than a place. - -- ___________________________________________________ / \ | John Karakash - Lucent Technologies/Bell Labs | | (919)388-2665(COOL) MIB2300 | | | | The power to tax involves the power to destroy. | | -Chief Justice Marshall | \___________________________________________________/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:03:41 -0400 From: "Chris Bergstresser" Subject: RE: IN> Nitpicking Rites (RE: Ofanim in Limbo) > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > [mailto:owner-in_nomine-l@lists.io.com]On Behalf Of Elizabeth McCoy > > At 12:08 PM -0400 10/14/99, Chris Bergstresser wrote: > > > > Don't rites only work once a day? > > It's a multi-use Rite, and I'm a Djinn Princess. };> > Hmmm. Smacks of munchkinism to me. - -- Chris ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1362 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.