From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Oct 18 21:15:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA00239 for ; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:15:25 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id VAA04052 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:13:24 -0500 Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:13:24 -0500 Message-Id: <199910190213.VAA04052@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1366 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, October 18 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1366 In this digest: Re: IN> The Media. Re: IN> Roles and Songs of Fruitation IN> The Media. Re: IN> Roles and Songs of Fruitation Re: IN> The Media. Re: IN> Roles and Songs of Fruitation Re: IN> The Media. Re: IN> The Media. Re: IN> Roles and Songs of Fruitation Re: IN> Roles and Songs of Fruitation Re: IN> no dinero IN> GURPS In Nomine status IN> IN: Beating The Media Re: IN> IN: Beating The Media Re: IN> Roles and Songs of Fruitation Re: IN> Roles and Songs of Fruitation IN> Furfur's Word Re: IN> Furfur's Word Re: IN> Furfur's Word Re: IN> Furfur's Word Re: IN> Roles and Songs of Fruitation Re: IN> Re: no off-topic (Re: Questions, again) Re: IN> Calabite Resonance Question Re: IN> Furfur's Word Re: IN> Furfur's Word Re: IN> Furfur's Word Re: IN> Furfur's Word Re: IN> The Media. Re: IN> Furfur's Word Re: IN> Furfur's Word Re: IN> Furfur's Word Re: IN> Furfur's Word Re: IN> Furfur's Word Re: IN> Drive Skill Re: IN> Drive Skill ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 10:19:57 -0500 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> The Media. At 1:50 PM -0400 10/17/99, Ben Aldred wrote: >ah yes but say you have a level 6 status 6 role as the mayor of washington >DC and the media just happens to show up with video of you smoking crack in >a hotel room with a prostitute. That kills the role and nearly all the >good you can do with it. And guess who got recently (within the past 3 years, that I recall) re-elected as said Mayor? Washington D.C. is one big tether to Hell, gotta be. For all we know said Mayor's role was destroyed by angels (assuming he was a Celestial, which I doubt), then reaffirmed by the Media's help. Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://www.best.com/~lyceum/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:37:27 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Roles and Songs of Fruitation At 9:44 -0400 10/17/99, The Alien wrote: >If my character has a role as a male doctor, for example, and is married >to a mortal female lawyer...if my character uses a Song to 'father' a >child and the mother dies in childbirth, can we trace that chain of events >back to Celestial interference? I'd say that unless the celestial did something specifically to cause the deaths (say, by intentionally producing a monsterous offspring), no, the deaths were essentially natural, even if the engendering process was not. A similar example would be a celestial who carved a statue that was later used as a murder weapon. As long as the celestial didn't perform the murder himself, the fact that the weapon was celestial-created wouldn't be relevant. An iffier case would be a celestial who built a bomb and then handed it to a human to plant and set off. My current take on the disturbance rules is that this would *not* cause disturbance, since the destructive act itself was not done by a celestial, and the intent to cause harm was due to an exercise of free will by the human. (On the other hand, if the celestial had used a resonance to *force* the human to plant/detonate the bomb, I'd tend to say it was now directly caused by the celestial.) - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:36:47 -0400 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> The Media. >>>ah yes but say you have a level 6 status 6 role as the mayor of washington DC and the media just happens to show up with video of you smoking crack in a hotel room with a prostitute. That kills the role and nearly all the good you can do with it.<<< You are aware that Mayor Marion Berry was *reelected* even after the aforementioned incident? - -David (proof that Washington, D.C. is diabolical) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:45:04 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Roles and Songs of Fruitation At 13:18 -0400 10/17/99, Amo Nympham wrote: >not necessarily. GURPS In Nomine should have some stuff about the Grigori >in it, if it's nothing other than resonance and dissonance, or did those get >cut? GURPS IN treats Grigori as normal angels with vessels; they'll lack the Sterile disadvantage, though. I don't know if they'll be cut -- GURPS IN is being delayed for a major rewrite (due to a policy change on how powers should be adapted into GURPS), and that may impact the length problem. However, so far, SJ seems disinclined to cut much of anything. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:48:55 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> The Media. At 13:36 -0400 10/17/99, Prodigal wrote: >From: Wade Hursman >> >> The only problem I see with this, is that, once you catch an angel, how do >> you hold it? Especially if you are only mortal? > >The only way I can think of is using the Song of Shields, or maybe the >variant of Song of Entropy that allows you to confuse your target beyond >being able to act... If they're mundanes, they won't have access to Songs. And Shields won't work, anyway -- you need the Song of Seals for that. However, mundanes *could* keep a celestial in a vessel unconscious or incapacitated using drugs, which *do* affect celestials in vessels or hosts. Knocking them unconscious also works, I believe (since Shedim are stated to be forced out of an unconscious host after a while). - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:52:54 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Roles and Songs of Fruitation At 14:43 -0400 10/17/99, Azrael wrote: > > >> Nope. Regardless of what the Symphony thinks, a vessel is a vessel is a >> vessel, and vessels are sterile. Just as Roles don't cause you to need to >> eat, drink, or sleep, they also don't erase the inherent sterility of the >> vessel. > >> And for the record, it's the Song of Fruition. ;) >> >> -EDG >> > >I disagree, on the grounds that: the Grigori took human wives and husbands, creating half-angelic half-mortal children and the Nephilim. The nature of the Grigori was such that their Choir (only) isn't sterile when in vessels. (If you want to ask why, ask God, since He's the one who created them....) >If vessels are by nature strelie then there is someway to change this...be it a song, a modification to the vessel or something else entirely. The Song of Fruition is the only way, normally, other than for the Grigori. I suppose it's *possible* that Asmodeus' Humanity attunement also removes the sterility, since it pretty much changes a vessel into a normal human, but I wouldn't count on it. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:11:14 -0400 From: Ben Aldred Subject: Re: IN> The Media. >You are aware that Mayor Marion Berry was *reelected* even after the >aforementioned incident? > oh yeah, not to disparage a famous personality, ut it could just be someone from a different side of the war in a similar vessel. also he was i believe relected and then lost the next election. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:13:44 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> The Media. At 10:19 AM -0500 10/18/99, Shadowstar wrote: >At 1:50 PM -0400 10/17/99, Ben Aldred wrote: > >ah yes but say you have a level 6 status 6 role as the mayor of washington > >DC and the media just happens to show up with video of you smoking crack in > >a hotel room with a prostitute. That kills the role and nearly all the > >good you can do with it. > > And guess who got recently (within the past 3 years, that I recall) >re-elected as said Mayor? Washington D.C. is one big tether to Hell, gotta >be. > > For all we know said Mayor's role was destroyed by angels (assuming he >was a Celestial, which I doubt), then reaffirmed by the Media's help. Or said Mayor was an Angel, whose vessal was slain after his career was destroyed with the Media's help, only to have a Demon get an identical Vessal and *resume* the Role and get reelected... - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:15:40 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Roles and Songs of Fruitation At 11:45 AM -0400 10/18/99, Walter Milliken wrote: >At 13:18 -0400 10/17/99, Amo Nympham wrote: > >not necessarily. GURPS In Nomine should have some stuff about the Grigori > >in it, if it's nothing other than resonance and dissonance, or did those get > >cut? > >GURPS IN treats Grigori as normal angels with vessels; they'll lack the >Sterile disadvantage, though. > >I don't know if they'll be cut -- GURPS IN is being delayed for a major >rewrite (due to a policy change on how powers should be adapted into >GURPS), and that may impact the length problem. However, so far, SJ >seems disinclined to cut much of anything. Policy... Change? Dare we hope for an Essence stat? - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:15:06 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Roles and Songs of Fruitation At 11:37 AM -0400 10/18/99, Walter Milliken wrote: >At 9:44 -0400 10/17/99, The Alien wrote: > >An iffier case would be a celestial who built a bomb and then handed it to >a human to plant and set off. My current take on the disturbance rules is >that this would *not* cause disturbance, since the destructive act itself >was not done by a celestial, and the intent to cause harm was due to an >exercise of free will by the human. (On the other hand, if the celestial >had used a resonance to *force* the human to plant/detonate the bomb, >I'd tend to say it was now directly caused by the celestial.) > In the Corporeal Player's Guide, the demon specifically had the human build the bomb that would destroy the Tether, because that way, he avoided Dissonance. So I think it's more steps than simply giving the bomb to them. - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:43:24 -0400 (EDT) From: jadasc@ma.ultranet.com (Jason Schneiderman) Subject: Re: IN> no dinero >The latter -- if you're basing something off of current events, TELL us. >(Also, it's a rather political-slanted adventure, which does violate normal >SJ Games policies to some extent -- check the writer's guidelines.) *nod* I did. Of course, it seems that those, too, can be relaxed when it comes to In Nomine and games like Technomancer. As with many things, it seems to be related to context. Jason - --- jadasc@ma.ultranet.com (life) werther@hilander.com (play) jayafter12am@hotmail.com (late-night) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:57:38 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: IN> GURPS In Nomine status At 12:15 -0400 10/18/99, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >At 11:45 AM -0400 10/18/99, Walter Milliken wrote: >>I don't know if they'll be cut -- GURPS IN is being delayed for a major >>rewrite (due to a policy change on how powers should be adapted into >>GURPS), and that may impact the length problem. However, so far, SJ >>seems disinclined to cut much of anything. > >Policy... Change? Mostly related to how supernatural powers are translated into GURPS mechanics. We're now free to define new powers, rather than having to try to shoehorn them into existing paranormal abilities. This will change resonances and attunements, mostly. >Dare we hope for an Essence stat? We essentially had it already in the final draft edits (the Essence Reserve advantage), except for mundanes. SJ decided to put it back in for mundane humans, and he and Kromm agreed on an appropriate hand-wave to explain it in the context of cross-overs into the rest of the GURPS system. With any luck, the revised version will go up for at least a short playtest, though this isn't guaranteed. We're trying to work out the schedule for the rewrite now; once this is done, SJ can decide about how playtest would fit in. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:19:07 -0500 From: "Michael" Subject: IN> IN: Beating The Media >>What are some good, mean, demonic ways for the media to screw with the >>characters, yet ways the characters can squirrel out of if they are clever >>and resourceful? > >Four words my man - Song of Form. > >The Celestial Song of Form is a really nasty tool to use against people - how are tehy going to convince the >cops that it wasn't them who commited that triple rape murder when it was all caught on tape. Failing that, >front page "confessions" that the angels are actually child molestors/ sexually crazed deviants/ associate with >terrorists etc. It's easy to pose some inconvenience for an angel with a stunt like that, but if the angel has a verifiable alibi ("Why, yes, Officer, two thousand people *can* testify to the fact that I was in church that morning."), he'll get loose quickly. Corroborating evidence is also a good thing to have, but considerably more difficult to come by. The problem with "confessions" is people like cops and newspaper editors want to know who is doing the confessing and if they have a motive for lying and if they have any evidence to back it up. Nobody likes being sued for slander or libel, after all. >Actually, it shouldn't be too difficult to dirty anyone's name if you have the proper sources. After all, angels >seldom feel the need to be bound by mortal laws. My archangel told me to is not a legally accepted defence >for setting someone alight, and because he was a demon isn't usually acceptable for killing people - >especially Malakim, who could quickly find themselves on the most wanted list. They don't necessarily feel bound by mortal laws, but they are generally *aware* of them. They may or may not know the fine points of evidentiary law, and they especially may not feel bound to observe the rights of others ("I don't care if your testimony will incriminate you, mortal. It's good for your soul."), but they *are* intelligent, and they won't do something that will cause them more trouble than it will solve. >Or you could have them filmed using songs or attunements or assuming celestial form and then give the >resulting tapes to the FBI or any other group who'd like to have someone who could do that under their control >- they may find themselves unwilling subjects of government or private experiments, or approached by people >who wish to worship them or set up a cult around them - try explaining to Lawrence why a bunch of mortals >have suddenly decide that you're their god and have abandoned Christianity. It's difficult to establish the authenticity of such a videotape, and whoever you turn it over to will want to know a little more about *you* ("Yes, Special Agent, I'm the one who gave you that tape. How'd the investigation go? He denied everything and you couldn't prove anything and now you want to talk with me? Uhhhhhhh..."). Very few people are gullible enough to take possibly-faked video or photographs as ultimate proof, especially if the person in question has the brains to deny that anything unusual is going on. Law enforcement will be *especially* wary if no other evidence is forthcoming -- after all, they all saw "Jurassic Park", too, y'know. Others have already touched on the "You're not supposed to *tell*" attitude of The Game, so I won't go into that any further, but just a little thought can give you lots of reasons why this sort of harassment is only slightly effective. Now, if you can arrange for someone to see things with their own *eyes*, they might believe, but it will still be hard to make it hold up in court. Start thinking "X-Files", and you'll be on the right track. - -- Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:45:18 -0600 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> IN: Beating The Media > It's difficult to establish the authenticity of such a videotape, and > whoever you turn it over to will want to know a little more about *you* > ("Yes, Special Agent, I'm the one who gave you that tape. How'd the > investigation go? He denied everything and you couldn't prove anything and > now you want to talk with me? Uhhhhhhh..."). Very few people are gullible > enough to take possibly-faked video or photographs as ultimate proof, True. Something just clicked in my head. If goodie-goodie angels make waves and noise, and demons hear it, they won't just send someone out to beat some bootie... after all, the demons of the media don't tend to be musclebound... so they could just send a news team to film whatever it is the angels are doing. I bet that would get REAL annoying REAL quick, especially if the demonic power structure is well-defined enough to forbid any essence expenditures for the duration of the operation. That'd mean any pips in the Symphony would be our angelic boys. This, combined with Songs of Charm/Possession, could make for some very interesting documentaries. > -- Michael Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:08:40 -0700 (PDT) From: john karakash Subject: Re: IN> Roles and Songs of Fruitation - --- Whistling in the Dark wrote: > In the Corporeal Player's Guide, the demon > specifically had the human > build the bomb that would destroy the Tether, > because that way, he > avoided Dissonance. So I think it's more steps than > simply giving > the bomb to them. Dude, that was a Calabite. Imagine you are Random Q. Calabite and you want to build a nuclear bomb. Do you take the chance that your entropy field will screw it up or worse, set it off prematurely? Furfur has a LOT of Calabim. They match his Word pretty well, but are somewhat useless for precision work! ;) -john 'I wrote the darned thing' karakash- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:09:07 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Roles and Songs of Fruitation At 12:08 PM -0700 10/18/99, john karakash wrote: >--- Whistling in the Dark >wrote: > > In the Corporeal Player's Guide, the demon > > specifically had the human > > build the bomb that would destroy the Tether, > > because that way, he > > avoided Dissonance. So I think it's more steps than > > simply giving > > the bomb to them. > > Dude, that was a Calabite. Imagine you are Random >Q. Calabite and you want to build a nuclear bomb. >Do you take the chance that your entropy field will >screw it up or worse, set it off prematurely? > Furfur has a LOT of Calabim. They match his Word >pretty well, but are somewhat useless for precision >work! ;) > > -john 'I wrote the darned thing' karakash- Well, sure, throw *that* at me. Seriously, I just reread the text. And clearly, you're right -- but it's not intuitively obvious that you are. In part because his band isn't identified, but also because the phrase in question was "he didn't want to jinx it," which I interpreted as he didn't want to risk disturbance. - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:16:50 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Furfur's Word Since I don't have the relevant supplement, could someone tell me what Furfur's Word ("Hardcore," I think) means? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:31:02 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Furfur's Word >Since I don't have the relevant supplement, could someone tell >me what Furfur's Word ("Hardcore," I think) means? Before he became a prince it meant Hardcore music. After princedom he expanded it to anything that has gone Hardcore (such as going from longing to obsession, going from anger to insane rage), focusing mostly on the violent aspects of his Word. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:38:53 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Furfur's Word Tim Groth wrote: > Before he became a prince it meant Hardcore music. After princedom he > expanded it to anything that has gone Hardcore (such as going from > longing to obsession, going from anger to insane rage), focusing > mostly on the violent aspects of his Word. I see. So he's sort of Demon Prince of Going Off the Deep End. Thank you. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:53:22 -0400 (EDT) From: jadasc@ma.ultranet.com (Jason Schneiderman) Subject: Re: IN> Furfur's Word At 4:38 PM 10/18/99, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >> Before he became a prince it meant Hardcore music. After princedom he >> expanded it to anything that has gone Hardcore (such as going from >> longing to obsession, going from anger to insane rage), focusing >> mostly on the violent aspects of his Word. > >I see. So he's sort of Demon Prince of Going Off the Deep End. >Thank you. IMC, his descent to Princehood gives him access to the portfolio of the long-vanished Demon Prince of Wrath - it's good to keep the Big 7 going. Jason - --- jadasc@ma.ultranet.com (life) werther@hilander.com (play) jayafter12am@hotmail.com (late-night) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:23:03 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Roles and Songs of Fruitation At 12:04 PM -0600 10/16/99, Tim Groth wrote: > If a celestial has a Role in which their married would the Song of >Fruitation be covered by it, No. The Song of Fruition is required for all human-celestial offspring (except the Grigori). It is a forbidden Song. If you want to sire kids, you have to use the "Succubus Trick" described in the IPG. (I'd let angels do it, sure.) If you want to bear them, then either you go Outcast/Renegade, or you're barren. It's not unknown for humans to be sterile. You'll just have to adopt. What the Humanity attunement would add to this equation is CDaU. There are a lot of cool things a GM could do with it and I'd generally treat each and every one as a separate case to be dealt with in the way that most, um, messes with the PCs. O;> (Disclaimer: All this is the canon stance. Do what you want with your own campaign. YMMV, etc.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:18:51 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Re: no off-topic (Re: Questions, again) Unfortunately, I need to quote nearly all of this to show where it went _off_ topic... At 9:04 PM +1000 10/16/99, bichwa@telstra.easymail.com.au wrote: >>> >> > Machines, and Big Guy and Rusty the Boy Robot. >>> >> >>> >> there's a cartoon of the big guy and rusty? >>> > >>> >Yes, which started about 3 weeks ago, on Fox Kids. >>> > >>> >In Dallas, it airs at 10:30 Saturday mornings. We're in the Central Time >>> >Zone, so adjust accordingly. >>> >>> Take it to email, guys, unless you can insert IN content (as is in the >>> other thread). >> >>erm, yeah, sorry about that. i was of course referring to lucifer and his >>sidekick vapula. > >Actually, when I started it it was on topic Right -- it was! But the one I replied to had lost all topic content. Yours was "using plots from cartoons." This one, as you can see above, was purely, "Woah, when is this cartoon running?" (Partly, I suspect, from forgetting to check the To field -- which is still not something I want to encourage!) If you want to do plots-from-cartoons, feel free. Just make sure that it continues to retain the _plots_ part of that, and doesn't start to be just about cartoons. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:26:45 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Calabite Resonance Question At 2:04 AM -0500 10/17/99, Amo Nympham wrote: >I know a Calabite can use his resonance in Celestial combat to inflict Soul >Hits. does he have to be in Celestial form, or can he stay in his Vessel >and attack a nearby Celestial form with his ressonance? p. 145: "In his celestial form, it does Soul hits to celestial targets equal to his Celestial Forces plus the check digit." So, to answer your question: No, he cannot stay in his vessel and attack nearby beings who are in celestial form, using his resonance. One of the few powers that can traverse the corporeal/celestial form barrier is the Celestial Song of Light. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:34:07 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Furfur's Word > Tim Groth wrote: > > I see. So he's sort of Demon Prince of Going Off the Deep End. Only if I can't get that Word before he does... *eg* Prodigal Demon of Calling In To Tech Support Without The Product Nearby ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:49:38 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Furfur's Word At 2:31 PM -0600 10/18/99, Tim Groth wrote: > >Since I don't have the relevant supplement, could someone tell > >me what Furfur's Word ("Hardcore," I think) means? >Before he became a prince it meant Hardcore music. After princedom he >expanded it to anything that has gone Hardcore (such as going from longing >to obsession, going from anger to insane rage), focusing mostly on the >violent aspects of his Word. > >Timothy, Angel of Rambling > For instance, when Bubbles went from sweet and innocent to a violent paragon of shrieking pastel blue wearing swath of pure pigtailed destruction, she became -- in her own words -- "HAAAAAARDCORE!!!!" Furfur was pleased. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:27:19 -0500 (CDT) From: paranial@creighton.edu Subject: Re: IN> Furfur's Word On Mon, 18 Oct 1999, Jason Schneiderman wrote: > At 4:38 PM 10/18/99, Earl Wajenberg wrote: > >> Before he became a prince it meant Hardcore music. After princedom he > >> expanded it to anything that has gone Hardcore (such as going from > >> longing to obsession, going from anger to insane rage), focusing > >> mostly on the violent aspects of his Word. > > > >I see. So he's sort of Demon Prince of Going Off the Deep End. > >Thank you. > > IMC, his descent to Princehood gives him access to the portfolio of the > long-vanished Demon Prince of Wrath - it's good to keep the Big 7 going. > > Jason > Gluttony: Ha'agenti. (Gottal stops always add flavor to demonic names. Such as Ba'al). Greed: Mammon Lust: Andre Wrath: Furfur Pride,Envy,Sloth ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:47:33 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Furfur's Word > Gluttony: Ha'agenti. (Gottal stops always add flavor to demonic >names. Such as Ba'al). > > Greed: Mammon > > Lust: Andre > > Wrath: Furfur > > Pride,Envy,Sloth I'd say Lucifer is Pride. Nybbass may cover Envy and/or Sloth as the Media does produce both of those in excess. But it seems that its more being an embodiment of the sin than having a Word that overlaps it. In which case Envy would probably go fall to Kobal or Saminga, while not many princes are lazy so sloth is still waiting for another demon to take up the Word (who most likely won't survive long as their prince is going to be mighty irked that they don't do anything). Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:08:56 -0700 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> The Media. Walter Milliken wrote:. > > However, mundanes *could* keep a celestial in a vessel unconscious or > incapacitated using drugs, which *do* affect celestials in vessels or hosts. > Knocking them unconscious also works, I believe (since Shedim are stated to > be forced out of an unconscious host after a while). > Can you imagine -how- PO'd the average Shedite would be after being forced out by humans who are -aware-? (at least that there's some weird thing taking people's bodies, if not an actual demon) I think that thing would go snare the nearest Host that happened to be close to the body and go have some fun. There's a story hook for a group of human or Soldier PCs. It has a sci-fiesque edge. Government agency captures and sedates an 'entity' in possession of a human host. Unbeknownst to them, it is ejected eventually, only to take over the body of someone else in the facility. The facility is too far away from any real population center for the Shedite to make it to a Host before its time limit expires, so it must take one of the people from inside the facility and escape. Or, kill everyone in there, one by one, until it can safely walk away without fear of interference (like in John Carpenter's "The Thing"). Feel free to use this and give opinions. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 16:18:37 -0700 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> Furfur's Word Tim Groth wrote: > >Since I don't have the relevant supplement, could someone tell > >me what Furfur's Word ("Hardcore," I think) means? > Before he became a prince it meant Hardcore music. After princedom he > expanded it to anything that has gone Hardcore (such as going from longing > to obsession, going from anger to insane rage), focusing mostly on the > violent aspects of his Word. No offense to whoever did that writeup, but that Word hardly seems worthy of even a -minor- Prince. It also seems to overlap a -lot- of the bigger Words out there, like Jealousy, Hate (now a Prince of Hate writeup would be fun), Wrath (a writeup I have to tweak before I post to the list), and scores of other nasty, violent Words. Unless it was all a joke at Kobal's urging. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:13:30 -0500 From: Kris Overstreet Subject: Re: IN> Furfur's Word At 04:18 PM 10/19/99 -0700, you wrote: > > >Tim Groth wrote: > >> >Since I don't have the relevant supplement, could someone tell >> >me what Furfur's Word ("Hardcore," I think) means? >> Before he became a prince it meant Hardcore music. After princedom he >> expanded it to anything that has gone Hardcore (such as going from longing >> to obsession, going from anger to insane rage), focusing mostly on the >> violent aspects of his Word. > > No offense to whoever did that writeup, but that Word hardly seems worthy >of even a -minor- Prince. It also seems to overlap a -lot- of the bigger Words >out there, like Jealousy, Hate (now a Prince of Hate writeup would be fun), >Wrath (a writeup I have to tweak before I post to the list), and scores of >other nasty, violent Words. > Unless it was all a joke at Kobal's urging. It goes farther than that. 'Hardcore' as a concept beyond the music scene is not easy to define. It's anger, extremism, destruction, and general excess all rolled up into one package. Hardcore, at its heart, is destructiveness for its own sake. It is the unleashing of the darkest, most violent passions in a soul. Hardcore's knee-jerk reaction to anything, positive or negative, is to destroy it (unless defacing it would make even more trouble). It isn't -just- Anger, because it leaves out the more cold, calculating and vindictive aspects of that Word. Nor is it just Destruction- it is the place where the two meet, and it's a very potent word, especially at the turn of the 21st Century. Redneck Kris Overstreet, too many websites.... http://www.detnet.com/redneck/ - Personal homepage http://www.wren-spot.com/wlp/ - Business webpage http://www.antarctic-press.com/ - Someone else's page ... not enough time ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 01:15:02 +0100 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> Furfur's Word From: Whistling in the Dark > > For instance, when Bubbles went from sweet and innocent to a violent > paragon of shrieking pastel blue wearing swath of pure pigtailed > destruction, she became -- in her own words -- "HAAAAAARDCORE!!!!" > > Furfur was pleased. > does this mean vapula is professor utonium? liam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 01:27:07 +0100 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> Furfur's Word From: Tim Groth > I'd say Lucifer is Pride. i like this idea, due to the whole "Lucifer fell because of his pride" thang, but i'm not entirely convinced that pride as a concept is a Bad Thing in the IN universe. after all, dominic tried to put michael on trial for pride, and he was acquitted by god - not because he wasn't proud, but because his pride and glory were important parts of the symphony >Nybbass may cover Envy and/or Sloth as the Media > does produce both of those in excess. But it seems that its more being an > embodiment of the sin than having a Word that overlaps it. the DP of sloth was eaten by haagenti in his rise to power. AFAIK no one's taken up his word again, possibly because they're worried haagenti would eat them as well just out of nostalgia. nybbas took over the old principality of sloth, so may well be trying to muscle in on some of that juicy word action without upsetting the Big H >In which case > Envy would probably go fall to Kobal or Saminga, while not many princes are > lazy so sloth is still waiting for another demon to take up the Word (who > most likely won't survive long as their prince is going to be mighty irked > that they don't do anything). > i could see the demon of envy being a powerful servitor of lust. after all, it's a twisted hatred brought on by your desire for something. or maybe kronos, i could see it being used to lure a lot of people into their Fates liam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 01:33:54 +0100 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> Furfur's Word From: Steel Angel > > No offense to whoever did that writeup, but that Word hardly seems worthy > of even a -minor- Prince. It also seems to overlap a -lot- of the bigger Words > out there, like Jealousy, Hate (now a Prince of Hate writeup would be fun), > Wrath (a writeup I have to tweak before I post to the list), and scores of > other nasty, violent Words. > Unless it was all a joke at Kobal's urging. > it seems to be more of a joke on lucifer's part. he seems impressed by furfur's trick (presumably this is the first time anyone actually managed to summon him using the song). impressed and amused enough that he's willing to hand out a word, but not enough that he hands out a particularly juicy one. instead he just amplifies the word furfur already owns. it's expandable, if taken metaphorically rather than literally, but still fairly weak. furfur is by no means a major DP, and isn't going to get anywhere without buddying up to some of the big guys. it's up to the GM whether he succeeds in finding a niche in the heirarchy or ends up getting splatted by someone (a rival DP or a militant archangel, maybe) liam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 01:36:14 +0100 From: Rhodri James Subject: Re: IN> Drive Skill In article <00c401bf186e$106b4d40$ea92fea9@oemcomputer>, Amo Nympham wrote: > how much of a stickler are you GMs out there about your players taking > the Drive skill? personally, I rule that since the players are > celestials (at least they all are right now IMG), and celestials do not > have vehicles in Heaven or Hell, if they don't have Drive they must roll > at default or suffer some rather nasty consequences based on the check > digit. Mmm. I tend to take the opposite view, that celestials can drive (and eat, and make love, and speak the local language, and whatever) as a basic skill. If you need a justification, well, most of them *aren't* fresh out of heaven or hell, and have had a least a basic course in walking upright from their Corporeal Orientation Officer :-) It's something that is commonplace in a lot of societies, after all, and not being able to drive (as an adult) is frequently notable, and no sane orientation course is going to let its graduates be spotted that easily. I could easily believe that celestials who spend all their time in out of the way places don't know how to drive -- Jordi's angels would be particularly prone to this -- but most of them shouldn't have much problem. Particularly if they're driving automatics :-) Of course, when they have to drive under stress conditions (i.e. make rolls), they might well decide that investing a few character points in Driving/1 or /2 might have been a good design decision. - -- Rhodri James *-* Wildebeeste herder to the masses If you don't know who I work for, you can't misattribute my words to them ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 17:14:03 -0500 From: Kris Overstreet Subject: Re: IN> Drive Skill At 01:36 AM 10/19/99 +0100, you wrote: >In article <00c401bf186e$106b4d40$ea92fea9@oemcomputer>, > Amo Nympham wrote: >> how much of a stickler are you GMs out there about your players taking >> the Drive skill? personally, I rule that since the players are >> celestials (at least they all are right now IMG), and celestials do not >> have vehicles in Heaven or Hell, if they don't have Drive they must roll >> at default or suffer some rather nasty consequences based on the check >> digit. The Drive skill defaults at -2. By and large, this is not a large disadvantage- it means that the Celestial in question probably can operate a car, but is not an experienced driver. Based on the raw Precision the character has, the Celestial may or may not be able to adjust on the fly to changing road conditions. Also, bear in mind that failing a Drive roll does not -necessarily- mean you crash into something- although a 6 check digit on a failed roll would be a good time to consider it, GMs... all it means is something has happened which the driver was unable to cope with, and as a result time is lost or other complications come into matters. In general, treat a Celestial with near-average Perception and no Drive skill as the Little Bluehaired Lady in the Big Black Oldsmobile- they can move the car down the road, but they're probably too frightened to go -too- fast or take any risks. A being with Drive/3 is about equal to a New York cabbie, and of course a Drive/6 skill level is about equal to the Bandit (anime or Burt Reynolds, take your pick). Redneck Kris Overstreet, too many websites.... http://www.detnet.com/redneck/ - Personal homepage http://www.wren-spot.com/wlp/ - Business webpage http://www.antarctic-press.com/ - Someone else's page ... not enough time ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1366 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.