From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Oct 21 22:02:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA10035 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:02:59 -0500 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id WAA14260 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:02:26 -0500 Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:02:26 -0500 Message-Id: <199910220302.WAA14260@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1370 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, October 21 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1370 In this digest: Re: IN> More on Mercs Re: IN> More on Mercs IN> Choir/Band Names Re: IN> Choir/Band Names Re: IN> More on Mercs Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Re: A question. Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Re: A question. Re: IN> Choir/Band Names Re: IN> Choir/Band Names Re: IN> Choir/Band Names Re: IN> Choir/Band Names Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Re: A question. Re: IN> Judgement Re: IN> A question. IN> Mercurians and psychological warfare Re: IN> Mercurians and psychological warfare Re: IN> Choir/Band Names Re: IN> More on Mercs Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Re: A question. Re: IN> Choir/Band Names Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Re: A question. Re: IN> Mercurians and psychological warfare Re: IN> Choir/Band Names Re: IN> Mercurians and psychological warfare Re: IN> Mercurians and psychological warfare Re: IN> Choir/Band Names Re: IN> Mercurians and psychological warfare RE: IN> Mercurians and psychological warfare Re: IN> More on Mercs Re: IN> Mercurians and psychological warfare Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Re: A question. Re: IN> Mercurians and psychological warfare Re: IN> Mercurians and psychological warfare ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:32:50 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> More on Mercs At 1:24 PM -0400 10/21/99, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 10:45 AM -0400 10/21/99, Douglas Muir wrote: > >1) Is it dissonant for a Merc to harm a human in order to prevent that > >human from harming other humans... viz., by shooting someone who's about to > >shoot someone? > >Yes. (Unless you have a Mercurian of Judgment, let it be noted.) > >A very good sharpshooter angel could try to shoot the _gun_... Though a Mercurian who's got that much skill with rifles might have some problems beyond this situation. Say, a Dominican or five walking up to him and saying "Intercessionist, we can't help but notice you're spending a powerful amount of time at the gun range...." - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:33:41 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> More on Mercs Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>3) A human is in hysterics. Can the Merc slap the human in an >> attempt to restore sanity? > > I'd say no, or certainly not without nearly going into hysterics > himself, if not actual dissonance. > > (And if I were in hysterics, slapping me would probably get me going > berserk after ya. Fair warning... O:> ) By process of free association (and based on "The Producers," I think it was, starring Zero Mostel.) -- Human: "I'm hysterical! I'm hysterical! Help me! I can't stop!" Mercurian throws glass of cold water in human's face. Throws glass of cold water in own face to relieve guilt feelings. Human: (Pause.) "I'm hysterical! I'm hysterical and WET!" Mercurian clenches teeth, slaps human, sobs. Human: (Pause.) "I'm hysterical! I'm hysterical and wet and in PAIN!!" Mercurian bites lip till it bleeds, slaps human backhand, wails. Human: "Th-thanks. I feel- Hey, are YOU--?" Mercurian: "I'm hysterical! I'm hysterical and WET! I'm hysterical and wet and DISSONANT!!" Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:52:52 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Choir/Band Names Where do the names of the following choirs and bands come from? What are their origins and/or meanings? -- Mercurians Impudites Habbalah Callabim Balseraphs I know where the others come from, but not these. Thanks. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:53:14 -0500 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> Choir/Band Names where do the others come from? is there a page out there dedicated to the source of IN names? (you think there would be by now) - - Dennis H, Groome V "Amo Nympham" ICQ: 11430261 "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -Stabbing Westward, "ACF" - -----Original Message----- From: Earl Wajenberg To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Thursday, October 21, 1999 12:59 PM Subject: IN> Choir/Band Names >Where do the names of the following choirs and bands come from? What >are their origins and/or meanings? -- > >Mercurians >Impudites >Habbalah >Callabim >Balseraphs > >I know where the others come from, but not these. > >Thanks. > >Earl > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:51:32 -0600 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> More on Mercs > >Could it be dissonant for the Merc _not_ to act in this situation? > > Quite possibly -- this is one of those "damned if you do, damned if you > don't" forks that angels sometimes get into. The basic problem here is > that the Mercurian should have managed the situation such that it didn't > escalate to the point of violence on the human shooter's part. A very good argument for Mercuriens to take the Celestial Song of Charm. Humans with 1 Will tend to do what they're told. Could a Mercurien learn Judo and use it to prevent a human from attacking him? Although I suppose there's no game mechanic for this, but a successful flop on the ground would at least stop a human from attacking immediately afterwards, and if you get tossed (unhurt) every time you swing a punch, odds are you'll stop pretty quick. Maybe this just represents an inordinately high dodge skill. =) Human with his fearsome 1d-3 first (can that do 0?) and Mercurien with his dodge which prevents, on average, 3 points of damage... Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:56:49 -0400 (EDT) From: jadasc@ma.ultranet.com (Jason Schneiderman) Subject: Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Re: A question. At 5:06 PM 10/20/99, Amo Nympham wrote: >like I tell all my new players when I instruct them to read the opening >vignettes, "Nicole is not a good angel. in fact, she's a horrible angel. >in fact, IMHO, she's about to fall, and it ain't going to be pretty." Aw, cut her a little slack. She works for Gabriel, after all. Restraint is not something Firebrands are known for. Although...hm. Anyone have any ideas for a fallen Nicole, or a redeemed Marcus? Superiors in particular - Nicole didn't seem to have the *boom* required to serve Belial. And I can just see the redeemed Marcus...in service to Jordi, in a cat vessel. Just desserts. :) Jason - --- jadasc@ma.ultranet.com (life) werther@hilander.com (play) jayafter12am@hotmail.com (late-night) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:26:14 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Re: A question. At 3:56 PM -0400 10/21/99, Jason Schneiderman wrote: >At 5:06 PM 10/20/99, Amo Nympham wrote: > >like I tell all my new players when I instruct them to read the opening > >vignettes, "Nicole is not a good angel. in fact, she's a horrible angel. > >in fact, IMHO, she's about to fall, and it ain't going to be pretty." > >Aw, cut her a little slack. She works for Gabriel, after all. Restraint is >not something Firebrands are known for. Although...hm. Anyone have any >ideas for a fallen Nicole, or a redeemed Marcus? Superiors in particular - >Nicole didn't seem to have the *boom* required to serve Belial. And I can >just see the redeemed Marcus...in service to Jordi, in a cat vessel. Just >desserts. :) She gets worse in sequel vignettes -- but she also flings people around willy nilly with songs, and rather vindictively has her traitor Servitor shot dead when it strictly speaking wasn't necessary, so she could use the blood to summon Gabriel in this one. And is rather callous to things like our hero having his thumb bitten off.... Not very Mercurianlike, even for Firebrands -- they're the ones who seek to prevent people from inflicting self-cruelty, after all.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:29:34 -0600 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Choir/Band Names Here's a good website: http://www.inil.com/users/edamoth/hier.html Seraphim are mentioned in the bible as angels. Serafim ("fiery angels"): Serafim are the six-winged angels seen by Isaiah in his first prophetic vision of the heavenly throne; the angels occupying the world of Beriah. Gabriel is a Seraphim. Cherubim, are of course, well-know as fat little angels. The website I mentioned above paints them very clearly as the In Nomine Cherubim. I wonder, was Ophis a Cherub? The Cherubim cast mankind out of the Garen of Eden. Ofanim must be from somewhere. I saw it on Anne Rice's liscence plate of her limo. And here they are -- Ofanim ("the wheels"): Ofanim are the spiritual forces (angels) envisioned by Ezekiel as the wheels of the Divine chariot; the angels occupying the world of Asiyah. Elohim (see also Elokim) is the plural honorific often used to represent God in one of the two styles of writing found in the book of Genesis -- the other uses Adonoi, I think. Malakim are also called Tarshisihim. They are not hack-masters, though -- sorry guys. They are just responsible for maintaining the order of the world. Kyriotates and Mercuriens must be made-up, modeled on the ideas presented as Dominators and Angels. I don't see 'em mentioned anywhere. Balseraph is obviously an artistic liscence, combining the word "Baal" (One of the worst deific enemies of El, who became the Hebrew God), and "Seraph". Djinn is, of course, the Djinni of legend, which we should all be familiar with. =) Calabim sounds like a bastardization of "Cabalah", but I can't be sure, and don't know what it's based on. Habbalah sounds like a created word. Lilim has roots in the word "Lilith", which is a Babylonian demon adapted by Cabalism. Impudite sounds like a twisting on the word Imp, so it's probably made-up. Shedim is obviously Hebrew. |22| Many [messianic darshanim] will say to me [Moshiach] on that Day [the Yom HaDin, the Day of Judgment], Adoneinu, Adoneinu, did we not speak as neviim in your Name? Did we not cast out shedim (evil spirits, demons) in your Name? Did we not accomplish many niflaot (miracles) in your Name? Ben - ----- Original Message ----- From: Amo Nympham To: Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 12:53 PM Subject: Re: IN> Choir/Band Names > where do the others come from? is there a page out there dedicated to the > source of IN names? (you think there would be by now) > > - Dennis H, Groome V "Amo Nympham" > ICQ: 11430261 > "I think I woke up screaming > 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" > -Stabbing Westward, "ACF" > -----Original Message----- > From: Earl Wajenberg > To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > Date: Thursday, October 21, 1999 12:59 PM > Subject: IN> Choir/Band Names > > > >Where do the names of the following choirs and bands come from? What > >are their origins and/or meanings? -- > > > >Mercurians > >Impudites > >Habbalah > >Callabim > >Balseraphs > > > >I know where the others come from, but not these. > > > >Thanks. > > > >Earl > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:37:00 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Choir/Band Names Ben Glickler wrote: > Kyriotates and Mercuriens must be made-up, modeled on the ideas > presented as Dominators and Angels. I don't see 'em mentioned > anywhere. "Kyriotate" is just the original Greek (or close to it) for "Domination," a traditional choir from the Dionysian hierarchy, derived from a passage in a letter of Paul's (that was probably talking about earthly governments, but oh well). Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:55:49 -0600 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Choir/Band Names Here's another useful webpage, upon which the angelic history is based: http://www.altheim.com/lit/enoch.html The Book of Enoch. Enjoy. It mentions the seven main archangels (not the seven you'd think, but it does include Michael, Gabriel, Uriel, Zadkiel and Raphael.) and also gives names of several of the fallen Grigori. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:49:37 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Choir/Band Names At 2:29 PM -0600 10/21/99, Ben Glickler wrote: >Here's a good website: http://www.inil.com/users/edamoth/hier.html > >Seraphim are mentioned in the bible as angels. Serafim ("fiery angels"): >Serafim are the six-winged angels seen by Isaiah in his first prophetic >vision of the heavenly throne; the angels occupying the world of Beriah. >Gabriel is a Seraphim. > >Cherubim, are of course, well-know as fat little angels. The website I >mentioned above paints them very clearly as the In Nomine Cherubim. I >wonder, was Ophis a Cherub? The Cherubim cast mankind out of the Garen of >Eden. > >Ofanim must be from somewhere. I saw it on Anne Rice's liscence plate of >her limo. And here they are -- Ofanim ("the wheels"): >Ofanim are the spiritual forces (angels) envisioned by Ezekiel as the wheels >of the Divine chariot; the angels occupying the world of Asiyah. > >Elohim (see also Elokim) is the plural honorific often used to represent God >in one of the two styles of writing found in the book of Genesis -- the >other uses Adonoi, I think. > >Malakim are also called Tarshisihim. They are not hack-masters, though -- >sorry guys. They are just responsible for maintaining the order of the >world. > >Kyriotates and Mercuriens must be made-up, modeled on the ideas presented as >Dominators and Angels. I don't see 'em mentioned anywhere. Kyriotates are in the Dictionary of Angels -- I've seen them. Mercurians, I haven't seen. But I believe I've seen references to the Intercessionists before. > >Habbalah sounds like a created word. Lilim has roots in the word "Lilith", >which is a Babylonian demon adapted by Cabalism. Lilim has lots of pop culture references as well -- I'm not sure which came first, however. - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 17:06:17 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Re: A question. At 15:56 -0400 10/21/99, Jason Schneiderman wrote: > Anyone have any >ideas for a fallen Nicole, or a redeemed Marcus? Superiors in particular - >Nicole didn't seem to have the *boom* required to serve Belial. I could see her as a Gamester, maybe. Or possibly Nightmares or Fate. Outside chance of Factions or the War. > And I can >just see the redeemed Marcus...in service to Jordi, in a cat vessel. Just >desserts. :) Yeah, well.... He's kind of unmotivated in general, so he'd probably work best for one of the laid-back AAs. For some reason, I'm thinking Wind might be best, he doesn't seem quite creative enough for Creation, or saccharine enough for Flowers. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 17:17:46 -0400 From: David Paul Subject: Re: IN> Judgement "Jo Hart" wrote: > That's fanaticism. Thinking that your chosen ideal is more important than > anything or anyone who stands in the way. Sacrificing the 'unimportant' > pawns to further your grand schemes. > > Michael is a fanatic. Dominic is an idealist :) > Yeah, I can easily see Michael allowing an angel -- even one of his own servitors -- to fall or be destroyed "for the greater good." Michael wants to _win_ the war, and if he has to, he'll even use the Enemy's methods to do it. (Hmm... There's an idea: Michael ordering a group of his most loya servitors to fall, hoping that at least one of them will retain enough of their former personality to act as a double agent.) The really scary thing is that someday, Michael might forget what he's fighting _for,_ and decide to take out humanity in order to hurt the demons.... > > jo - -- David Paul janus@ioa.com - ------------------------------------ The pure at heart may sleep better, but sinners enjoy their waking hours much more. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:36:36 +0100 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> A question. From: Walter Milliken > >>One could see a Mercurian killing a > >> "good" person, since sending them to Heaven isn't intending real harm. > > > >not in the long run, maybe, but that's like hitting someone and saying > >"they'll feel alright again in a bit" > > Which I can easily see a Servitor of Stone agreeing with... "It's for > their own good, really." > from another choir, sure. but mercurians of stone wouldn't liam ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:43:19 PDT From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Mercurians and psychological warfare I can think of two pieces of documentation to support the theory that Mercurians can "attack" humans psychologically although not physically: 1) Somewhere in the APG, it discusses Mercurians using their knowledge of human relationships to influence human behavior toward their (the Mercurians') preferred ends. The example used is a Mercurian who knows what buttons to push on the humans who can get something done (in this case, funding for a charitable center). 2) If psychological abuse were forbidden to Mercurians, Nicole would have been showing serious dissonance by the end of "A Bright Dream," considering the way she manipulated and threatened her servant. (Explain to me again why, in the IPG, Tariel fell and she didn't ...) Janet Anderson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 17:56:26 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Mercurians and psychological warfare At 2:43 PM -0700 10/21/99, Janet Anderson wrote: >I can think of two pieces of documentation to support the theory >that Mercurians can "attack" humans psychologically although not >physically: > >2) If psychological abuse were forbidden to Mercurians, Nicole >would have been showing serious dissonance by the end of "A Bright >Dream," considering the way she manipulated and threatened her >servant. > >(Explain to me again why, in the IPG, Tariel fell and she didn't ...) My one assumption is that Nicole spent about four days out of seven working in Tethers. I *really* wish Nicole had been an Ofanite. There's not a thing she couldn't have done the same in that vignette (and subsequent) that she couldn't have done as an Ofanite, and not be dissonant. As it is, she muddles things the wrong way, because even in a Dark game, she'd be dissonant. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:10:54 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Choir/Band Names At 2:29 PM -0600 10/21/99, Ben Glickler wrote: >Cherubim, are of course, well-know as fat little angels. Actually, those are also "putti," IIRC. I don't know when the two got conflated, but if you do a websearch on putti, you come up with pictures of the little chubs. Oh, let me get out my Dictionary of Angels. (Author/compiler, Gustav Davidson. Really useful resource.) Seraphim and Cherubim are nearly universal to all the Orders Of The Celestial Hierarchy in all the sources Gustav found. Malachim and Elohim appear with the listing: "MOSES MAIMONIDES (in _Mishne Torah_)". (This grouping has Kerubim instead of Cherubim.) Ofanim and Malakim show up in one listed as _Berith Menucha_. (This one has Raphael as the leader of the Ofanim...) Hayyoth are in yet another list. (This one spelling Ophanim.) There are countless Virtues, Powers, Thrones, and Dominions listed. There are at least two Dominiations. (One from Dante.) (Lesse, that's Seraphim, check, Cherubim, check, Ofanim, check, Elohim/Powers, check, Malakim, check.) "Kyriotates -- in his _Karmic Relationships_, Rudolf Steiner speaks of 3 celestial hierarchies, the kyriotates being an order of the 2nd. The triad here consists of exusiai (virtues or authorities), kyriotates (dominiations?) and dynamis (powers)." Mercurians are being a bit more difficult -- there's Merkabah, Merkabah Angels, and Merkaboth listed... Also Mercury gets listed, who was apparently designated an angel (!) of progress, and another name for Raphael. Balseraphs... Yeah, probably composed of the "Bael/Baal" (Lord or Master) turned into a prefix. "Lord-Seraphs," sorta. Sounds appropriately threatening. Djinn are Arabic, yes. (And the poor Jinn are undoubtedly annoyed by them. However, the "careful what you ask for" aspect of an attuned Djinn is undoubtedly drawn from the legends.) Calabim... Can't find anything even close to them. >Habbalah sounds like a created word. Ah, but it's not! The Angels of Punishment are the Malake Habbalah, according to _The Testament of Solomon._ And here is excellent reason to make Makatiel, Prince of Disease, a Habbalite, for the Malake Habbalah are listed as: ``Over the seven divisions of Hell 1. Kushiel ("rigid one of God") 2. Lahatiel ("flaming one of God") 3. Shoftiel ("judge of God") 4. Makatiel ("plague of God") 5. Hutriel ("rod of God") 6. Pusiel or Puriel ("fire of God") 7. Rogziel ("wrath of God")'' >Impudite sounds like a twisting on the word Imp, so it's probably made-up. Imp and possibly incubus. I certainly can't find them in the Dictionary. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:10:56 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> More on Mercs At 1:32 PM -0400 10/21/99, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >At 1:24 PM -0400 10/21/99, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>A very good sharpshooter angel could try to shoot the _gun_... > >Though a Mercurian who's got that much skill with rifles might have >some problems beyond this situation. Say, a Dominican or five >walking up to him and saying "Intercessionist, we can't help but >notice you're spending a powerful amount of time at the gun range...." Ah, but that's simple! "Well, it's like this, Most Holy. My Role/job occasionally puts me into situations where there's a threat, to myself or others, from armed humans. Since I don't have the Mercurian of Judgment attunement -- no, that's not a hint -- and since I'm not inclined to use supernatural powers openly, like Songs, I have to find mundane ways to deal with things. If I get good enough with a gun, I'll have the option of trying to shoot the humans' _weapons_, and thus both avoid dissonance, and avoid letting the innocent (or myself) be harmed. It's a bit of a risk, but at least it's an option besides dissonance or letting someone else come to harm. How about you check in on me every now and then and make sure I'm okay with it?" Of course, if it's a Michaelite Mercurian, he says, "Complain about my Role duties to my Archangel, hyenas." - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:13:48 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Re: A question. At 5:06 PM -0400 10/21/99, Walter Milliken wrote: >At 15:56 -0400 10/21/99, Jason Schneiderman wrote: >> Anyone have any >>ideas for a fallen Nicole, or a redeemed Marcus? Superiors in particular - >>Nicole didn't seem to have the *boom* required to serve Belial. > >I could see her as a Gamester, maybe. Or possibly Nightmares or Fate. >Outside chance of Factions or the War. Magog? >Yeah, well.... He's kind of unmotivated in general, so he'd probably >work best for one of the laid-back AAs. For some reason, I'm thinking >Wind might be best, Yeah, but he's unmotivated, and the Wind is... rather motivated! Who knows -- _he_ might do better with Fire. He could do with some _caring_ hugs. Giving and receiving. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 17:12:14 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Choir/Band Names From: Elizabeth McCoy > At 2:29 PM -0600 10/21/99, Ben Glickler wrote: > >Cherubim, are of course, well-know as fat little angels. > > Actually, those are also "putti," IIRC. I don't know when the two got > conflated, It's probably all caused by his appearances on Seinfeld. Although those M&Ms he's hanging around with these days may have something to do with it. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 17:14:19 -0500 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Re: A question. From: Elizabeth McCoy > At 5:06 PM -0400 10/21/99, Walter Milliken wrote: > >At 15:56 -0400 10/21/99, Jason Schneiderman wrote: > >> Anyone have any > >>ideas for a fallen Nicole, or a redeemed Marcus? Superiors in particular - > >>Nicole didn't seem to have the *boom* required to serve Belial. > > > >I could see her as a Gamester, maybe. Or possibly Nightmares or Fate. > >Outside chance of Factions or the War. > > Magog? Given how little information she was willing to give her new Servitor, she might even go with Secrets. > >Yeah, well.... He's kind of unmotivated in general, so he'd probably > >work best for one of the laid-back AAs. For some reason, I'm thinking > >Wind might be best, > > Yeah, but he's unmotivated, and the Wind is... rather motivated! > > Who knows -- _he_ might do better with Fire. He could do with some > _caring_ hugs. Giving and receiving. If he does redeem, I expect he'll sign up with Jordi and try to make amends for all the damage he caused when he was trying for that Word about hurting animals. Prodigal Demon of Calling In To Tech Support Without The Product Nearby ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:36:15 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Mercurians and psychological warfare At 5:56 PM -0400 10/21/99, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >At 2:43 PM -0700 10/21/99, Janet Anderson wrote: >>(Explain to me again why, in the IPG, Tariel fell and [Nicole] didn't ...) Basically, Nicole is an INS/MV angel. In that universe, she'd fit perfectly. Well, except that Gabriel's not a valid AA, but IIRC, she used to be one of Khalid's in earlier drafts. Blackmail? Violence? Over-concern with how white her whites are? Yup. INS/MV. Way I figure it, she hit dissonance for the Song of Motion trick with her ex-servant, but didn't make a +15 or so disturbance. Why hasn't she Fallen? Gotta be Tetherwork... Or maybe she's got the "Author's Favorite Character" Discord -- you survive, but man, sometimes you wish you hadn't... Me, I'd have thought she'd do better as a Malakite... Then she could still have pulled that "I know what you did bad" trick. For that matter, it would have worked _better_... (That's what she's doing. She's trying to re-fledge blackwing...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 17:49:29 -0500 From: "Ben Chism" Subject: Re: IN> Choir/Band Names Thanks for the link!! I've been looking around for the Book of Enoch for awhile...I did have a link to another copy online awhile back but a HD crash lost it. Ben Chism ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 17:51:29 -0500 From: "Ben Chism" Subject: Re: IN> Mercurians and psychological warfare > Basically, Nicole is an INS/MV angel. In that universe, she'd fit perfectly. > Well, except that Gabriel's not a valid AA, but IIRC, she used to be one > of Khalid's in earlier drafts. Gabe's not an AA in INS/MV? Man I really have to brush up on my French and get a copy of INS/MV... Ben Chism ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:54:39 -0600 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Mercurians and psychological warfare >Me, I'd have thought she'd do better as a Malakite... Then she could >still have pulled that "I know what you did bad" trick. For that matter, >it would have worked _better_... > >(That's what she's doing. She's trying to re-fledge blackwing...) Hmmm isn't that possible (the becoming a Malakite)? The Malakim came into existance during the Fall, Uriel and David being the two biggies who converted along with I'd imagine some of their servitors. So becoming a Malakim after being another type of angel is possible. Granted it probably requires the help of an Archangel (or at least their consent because if you did it on your own without permision you'd have a lot of explaining to do) but it is possible. Which raises the question of whether or not a Malakite can go back to being what kind of angel they were before, or if a Malakite can swap choirs even if they weren't something before. Which raises the bigger question can angels shuffle around choirs but it just isn't done for numerous reasons (like old habbits inducing dissonance)? Timothy, Angel of Rambling (Now in new Malakite Form!!! With the oath, "Never stop a rambling until it comes to its natural conculsion or you are physically unable to continue.") If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 19:01:24 -0400 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Choir/Band Names At 5:49 PM -0500 10/21/99, Ben Chism wrote: >Thanks for the link!! I've been looking around for the Book of Enoch for >awhile...I did have a link to another copy online awhile back but a HD crash >lost it. > >Ben Chism I went out and bought a copy. The Metatron is pleased with me. It's good to be on his good side. Great great stuff. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 00:17:46 +0100 (BST) From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: Re: IN> Mercurians and psychological warfare >> Basically, Nicole is an INS/MV angel. In that universe, she'd fit >perfectly. >> Well, except that Gabriel's not a valid AA, but IIRC, she used to be one >> of Khalid's in earlier drafts. > >Gabe's not an AA in INS/MV? >Man I really have to brush up on my French and get a copy of INS/MV... Gabriel _is_ the Archangel of Fire, only the background is somewhat weird. If you want the full version, you need a copy of the supplement _Insh'Allah_, which covers it quite fully. In short (and definitely not according to IN/SJ): God decided to found another religion as "competition" for Christianity. He set Gabriel, his "stealth Archangel", who was believed to generally be a Master-level angel of Yves, on the job. Gabriel recruited Hasan (angel of Culture), Eli (angel of Creation, in the sense of all created things), and Khalid (angel of Faith) and the three of them brainstormed on what would make a good religion. Gabriel noted down the results, then dictated them to Mohammed. Thus was born Islam. However, God then wouldn't admit to having been behind it all, as this would have rather shaken the faith of the pro-Christianity Archangels, and pretty much threw Gabriel to the wolves ("Sure, they can kill your vessel, you'll spend the next few millenia in a celestial waiting-room out of the way, no problem.") Gabriel did not like this, but Laurent (Laurence) was already on his tail. They duelled. Gabriel lost (despite his neat flaming sword) and fell between the worlds, and Laurent couldn't find his body. Meanwhile, the three above-mentioned angels took charge of Islam, and became the Islamic Archangels, and are still going strong. Gabriel landed on Earth, injured, where he was cared for by some angels of Yves (the only other person besides God who knew Gabriel's true identity.) When recovered, Yves offered Gabriel choices. (a) Fall, but he'd be safe in Hell. (b) Go public, but probably get killed by other Archangels. (c) Use a super-strength version of Humanity, and hide out on Earth. Gabriel did (c), but as the years went by, he began to suffer from an unconsciously-induced amnesia, till at last he believed he _was_ human. At the time an adventure in the book starts, he's this tall blond guy with little gold-rimmed glasses who runs an Islamic book shop in Paris, quite unaware of his Archangelic nature. Unfortunately, Majuj (Magog, still around in INS/MV) has just located him too. Can the angels save him? - --- (oh, all right, if they _do_ save him and help him remember who he is, he vanishes into the world again -- but quite aware of his true identity. Apparently he's currently running a little bookshop off Denmark Street in London. But he knows who he is now . . .) - --- Genevieve Cogman maya@tcp.co.uk `Ce n'est qu'en travaillant que les ides viennent' (Sade) ("It is only through working that ideas come") ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:58:33 -0700 From: Steven Feldon Subject: RE: IN> Mercurians and psychological warfare Let me the first to say, "not in canon!" In canon as it is currently, the ONLY time an angel has _ever_ changed choir was at the fall, when the proto-Malakim, to quote Beth quoting Derek, raised their fists in the air in anger at the Rebellion and found themselves becoming something new and darker. Malakim. steve - -----Original Message----- From: Tim Groth [mailto:Timothy.Groth@colorado.edu] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 3:55 PM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: Re: IN> Mercurians and psychological warfare >Me, I'd have thought she'd do better as a Malakite... Then she could >still have pulled that "I know what you did bad" trick. For that matter, >it would have worked _better_... > >(That's what she's doing. She's trying to re-fledge blackwing...) Hmmm isn't that possible (the becoming a Malakite)? The Malakim came into existance during the Fall, Uriel and David being the two biggies who converted along with I'd imagine some of their servitors. So becoming a Malakim after being another type of angel is possible. Granted it probably requires the help of an Archangel (or at least their consent because if you did it on your own without permision you'd have a lot of explaining to do) but it is possible. Which raises the question of whether or not a Malakite can go back to being what kind of angel they were before, or if a Malakite can swap choirs even if they weren't something before. Which raises the bigger question can angels shuffle around choirs but it just isn't done for numerous reasons (like old habbits inducing dissonance)? Timothy, Angel of Rambling (Now in new Malakite Form!!! With the oath, "Never stop a rambling until it comes to its natural conculsion or you are physically unable to continue.") If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:49:28 CDT From: "Wade Hursman" Subject: Re: IN> More on Mercs >1) Is it dissonant for a Merc to harm a human in order to prevent that >human from harming other humans... viz., by shooting someone who's about to >shoot someone? YES. > >Could it be dissonant for the Merc _not_ to act in this situation? > NO. >2) Does psychological violence count as violence? Could a Merc use >threats and bluff to terrorize a human? > YES >3) A human is in hysterics. Can the Merc slap the human in an attempt to >restore sanity? > NO > Wade Habbalite of Technology, Demon of Telemarketers ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:05:25 -0500 From: "Ben Chism" Subject: Re: IN> Mercurians and psychological warfare Oooohhhh I like....Thanks for the story! Speaking of INS/MV...anybody know where I can get a copy for a reasonable price? I've checked Amazon.com, Barnes and Noble online, and my local bookstores and none have it. Also, is there an English translation...my French is really rusty.... Ben Chism Angel of War Stories Demon of Useless Knowledge(did you know that In ancient China and certain parts of India, mouse flesh was considered a great delicacy?) > Gabriel _is_ the Archangel of Fire, only the background is somewhat weird. > If you want the full version, you need a copy of the supplement > _Insh'Allah_, which covers it quite fully. > > Genevieve Cogman > > maya@tcp.co.uk > > `Ce n'est qu'en travaillant que les ides viennent' (Sade) > ("It is only through working that ideas come") > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:52:05 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Re: A question. At 18:13 -0400 10/21/99, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 5:06 PM -0400 10/21/99, Walter Milliken wrote: >>Yeah, well.... He's kind of unmotivated in general, so he'd probably >>work best for one of the laid-back AAs. For some reason, I'm thinking >>Wind might be best, > >Yeah, but he's unmotivated, and the Wind is... rather motivated! Well, I can see him riding along with a pack of Windys, I can see him *leading* them. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:57:13 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Mercurians and psychological warfare At 18:54 -0400 10/21/99, Tim Groth wrote: >>Me, I'd have thought she'd do better as a Malakite... Then she could >>still have pulled that "I know what you did bad" trick. For that matter, >>it would have worked _better_... >> >>(That's what she's doing. She's trying to re-fledge blackwing...) >Hmmm isn't that possible (the becoming a Malakite)? The Malakim came into >existance during the Fall, Uriel and David being the two biggies who >converted along with I'd imagine some of their servitors. So becoming a >Malakim after being another type of angel is possible. That was a singular event, and I believe God did it. He gets to break His own rules if He wants.... > Granted it probably >requires the help of an Archangel I think canon requires God's assistance. (Elizabeth mutters, "Yes, exactly" while reading over my shoulder.) >Which raises the question of whether or not a Malakite can go back to being >what kind of angel they were before, or if a Malakite can swap choirs even >if they weren't something before. Nope. They're stuck -- they don't even get to Fall. Of course, I suppose God could turn them into rutabagas* if He really wanted to.... > Which raises the bigger question can >angels shuffle around choirs but it just isn't done for numerous reasons >(like old habbits inducing dissonance)? Doesn't happen, and probably can't. You'd have to disassemble the angel and build a new one from the Forces. And that's basically killing the old one, not changing it. - ---Walter - -------------------------------- * Elizabeth mutters "no -- kiwis". ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 23:01:19 -0400 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Mercurians and psychological warfare At 21:05 -0400 10/21/99, Ben Chism wrote: >Oooohhhh I like....Thanks for the story! >Speaking of INS/MV...anybody know where I can get a copy for a reasonable >price? I've checked Amazon.com, Barnes and Noble online, and my local >bookstores and none have it. Also, is there an English translation...my >French is really rusty.... The English translation is the SJGames version.... More or less -- the translation kind of rotated the IN universe into a totally alternate version. - ---Walter ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1370 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.