From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Nov 1 11:29:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA09277 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 11:29:22 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id LAA04907 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 11:27:22 -0600 Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 11:27:22 -0600 Message-Id: <199911011727.LAA04907@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1386 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, November 1 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1386 In this digest: Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Re: IN> Polite Address of Princesses Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Re: IN> New Dominic Theory: EloDom Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Re: IN> Critters of Myth Re: IN> <(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=A9=BF=A9?=)> Find Out What They Don't Want You To Know! Re: IN> Re: What Celestials Bring to Earth Re: IN> Re: What Celestials Bring to Earth Re: IN> adam and co Re: IN> Candidates for a Fall Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) IN> [ADMIN] To erisraven@crosswinds.net! Re: IN> Khalid IN> Loud noises and lesser noises Re: IN> adam and co Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Re: IN> Jordi and the Critters of Myth Re: IN> adam and co Re: IN> Khalid Re: IN> Yves? IN> Dominic Discussion (Re: Nicole Fluff) Pride IS a sin (was Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff)) Re: IN> Dominic Good/Bad? Re: IN> What are Laurence's Oaths? Re: IN> Khalid Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) IN> =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_IN=3E_=3C=28=A9=BF=A9=29=3E_Find_Out_What_They_Don't?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Want_You_To_Know!?= Re: IN> Loud noises and lesser noises IN> Clones and... AI in IN Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Re: IN> Clones and... AI in IN Re: Pride IS a sin (was Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff)) Re: IN> Loud noises and lesser noises Re: IN> Candidates for a Fall Re: IN> New Dominic Theory: EloDom Re: IN> Loud noises and lesser noises ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 03:20:34 -0800 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Ben Aldred wrote: > >The little thing I always note that boggles me is Baal's Mercuriens, who can > >kill humans if the fight is fair. I like it a lot -- even though it makes > >Baal a "good" guy who's fighting for a "bad" cause, the stereotypical > >general who felt betrayed and knows he's doing the wrong thing for all the > >right reason. Fair? Would -you- want to fight a Calabite? Remember that the same listing also says a fight between a demon and a human is almost never fair. Baal may have something of a warrior's code, but it seems more a matter of -pride- than a sense of fair play. If his Impudites can't take down a miserable human without resorting to tricks, they don't -deserve- to be in his army. Ball fought for the Diabolicals' right to rebel, and currently stomps on them when they try. He wanted -his- right to rebel, it's kind of like the 'freedom from religious intolerance' the first batch of American colonists wanted. They wanted it for themselves only. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 03:26:22 -0800 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> Polite Address of Princesses Liam wrote: > From: > > And if that doesn't work. Do what Michael does scatter his forces > > to the Four Winds with a thought. > > nah, novy would never do that. maybe turn 'em into a tree for a few > centuries so they can ponder on their rudeness, though Oh, I'm sure Novalis has a breaking point. Why else should even she keep some Malakim under her aegis? The plant kingdom can act with violence (it's just very slow and usually chemical in nature). By the way, anyone wanna speculate on Novalis talking to say...a Shedite? Wonder how she'd react to something so inherantly -corrupt-. Either near her power level (like Malphas or, save us...Saminga) or a weaker one. Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 03:34:04 -0800 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Liam wrote: > From: Azrael > > > aforemention symbolism) is also pretty much the opposite of the nice, > friendly, open Seraph. > > in case you hadn't noticed, dominic *isn't* nice, friendly, or open. doesn't > stop him being a seraph, though -Most- Seraphim don't seem to be nice or friendly, either. Open? Sure, they have to be, but they can omit whatever they like, too. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 03:36:54 -0800 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> New Dominic Theory: EloDom Michael Martin wrote: > Comments? Just one. Well done. I -like- it. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 03:50:12 -0800 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Azrael wrote: > His attunements, what's going on there? Talk about the most useless stuff I've seen. > You're kidding. I've found the Judgement Attunements to be -stunningly- useful for the -job- of Judgement. The Cherub, Ofanite, Elohite, and Malakite Resonances are fonts of information, and the local laws help with one of his Rites. And 7 points of damage...a round...until caller or target is dead. Average badass Calabite will go down in 7-8 rounds. > Dom took his own intrests above the word of God, who told Gaby to begin the Islamic faith, > Dom goes: "Not Christanity, Not Catholic, I DONT LIKE IT!! What to do... I Know! Abuse my position of Power and persectute/prosectue her for it. Good PLan!! Real short. Gabriel is -still- nuts. > > Did Lucifer necessarily fall because of Pride? Sure Pride can be damaging and lead to dangerous thoughts, but it is a good thing in many cases. Lack of pride can be just as damaging. Pride goeth before a fall. Lucifer thought he knew better than God. Perhaps we should use the word -hubris- to make the distinction clearer. > Which also > gives rise to the question are the Seven Deadly Sins even relevent to the IN world? After all selfishness, > not sins lead to Fate. Many of the Sins are not really bad. Many can be good things, however they can go bad, which are the aspects that the Princes concerntrate upon. Dom's prosecution of Michael could have > been without true purpose, coming only from his Pre-occupation with Catholicism, God himself said that Michael's Pride was good. The Seven Deadlies not bad? Lust (lust, not love, lust. Pure need just because you want). -Gluttony-, there's no redeeming values there. Wrath - senseless, undirected rage. -Sloth-. Sheer laziness because you don't wanna work. No redeeming values there, either. Envy...you want -just- because someone else has, and you hate them for it. Greed, same as lust...you just want to hoard and lord it over others. And Pride...see above. Frankly, I can't see anything good in -any- of the Seven Deadly Sins. And as for Michael, it was -Gabriel- with the Islam thing...and God -didn't- say Michael's Pride was good. Nowhere is that stated. What -is- stated is that Michael was a useful weapon in the War...that's it. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 04:01:56 -0800 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> Critters of Myth Adam Canning wrote: > It does the same for Beleth, [on the logic, that celestials are asexual] > > Thinking about it since nonsuperior celestials are sterile, that implies > that > like bees all superiors are in fact female. This isn't quite the time for an entomology lesson, but most insects are a 'base' female. Meaning, if left to develop with no hormonal interference, they will be female. -But- if bees are left to develop without any hormonal interference, they become sterile workers. If a bee egg is -unfertilized-, it becomes a male, with half the female's number of chromosomes. So, all workers in a hive share 3/4 of their genes (1/4 or half of the male's 1/2, and 2/4 which is 1/2 of the queen's) more than the workers would share with their own daughters. Now this is a Hymenoptera thing (bees and ants and a few others types). It could just as easily have been sterile males. Chromosomally, the 'female' bees may as well be a true neuter gender, save for their -potential- to become breeding females...any larva without only 1/2 the normal chromosome number can become a queen. Now, to get this back to In Nomine...no Superior needs -another- being to reproduce, which would make them parthenogenic females...but since the Servitors aren't 'clones' of the Superiors, that model doesn't quite work, as a Superior can make any Choir it wants. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 04:08:40 -0800 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> <(=?iso-8859-1?Q?=A9=BF=A9?=)> Find Out What They Don't Want You To Know! twendell@pmail.net wrote: > Dear Friend: > > If you have already responded to the following announcement > a few days ago, that means your package is already on its > way and it should be arriving soon! If you have not responded > to this before, please pay attention to it now. This is very > important!!! > Ooo, a package! Does this mean we all get to share it? At last, - -proof- that these people are spammers and lying bastards. Those cute lil' eyes in the subject line don't fool me! I see Nybbas and his cronies (with Vapula) are as busy as ever. Damn Demon of Spam...anyone ever (or intend to) do a writeup of it? - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 04:15:15 -0800 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> Re: What Celestials Bring to Earth Jo Hart wrote: > >From: "Azrael" > >I don't really > >get how Djinn work (mentally, I understand the mechanic, but not the > >mindset). > > Casca wrote a great description of the Djinn mindset, which all IN GMs > should read! I have a copy at: > http://www.btinternet.com/~jhart/IN_djinn.html But he got it reversed. Djinn can't harm their attuned, but they -can- let someone else do it. I'm not sure if a lot of that writeup fits when you keep that in mind. I can still see the possessiveness and center of attention stuff, though. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 04:18:36 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Re: What Celestials Bring to Earth >From: Steel Angel > > But he got it reversed. Djinn can't harm their attuned, but they -can- >let someone else do it. I'm not sure if a lot of that writeup fits when >you keep that in mind. I can still see the possessiveness and center of >attention stuff, though. > It was his suggested 'fix' for the Djinn attunement. I actually think it makes more sense than the book one, but in any case, it's another point of view. jo a seraph for all seasons ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 04:58:06 -0800 (PST) From: The Alien Subject: Re: IN> adam and co On Tue, 2 Nov 1999, Steel Angel wrote: > so true if both Adam and Eve were whatever she was. I wonder...could they or > their children be elevated to Superiorhood? > I heard a rumor that in INS/MV, Eve was found to have been Superiorified(Superiored? Suped up?). She was ... well, now I can't recall. But it was mentioned in the list once. Usual disclaimers about the two games being pretty much nothing like each other apply. Sean ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 09:36:03 -0600 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> Candidates for a Fall man...I'm not sure if I've ever seen this much nitpicking essence potential in one post. how about all references to Angelic Superiors becoming Renegades get changed to Outcasts? - - Dennis H, Groome V "Amo Nympham" ICQ: 11430261 http://welcome.to/EvM_Gamers "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -Stabbing Westward, "ACF" - -----Original Message----- From: Steel Angel To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Date: Monday, November 01, 1999 5:11 AM Subject: IN> Candidates for a Fall > > >The Alien wrote: > New thread!! Archangels, are they Fall canidates, if so, why? I commence, >succinctly, from a Servitor of Judgement's POV (think not Dominic himself is >immune, though). > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 10:32:12 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) At 3:50 AM -0800 11/2/99, Steel Angel wrote: >Azrael wrote: > > Frankly, I can't see anything good in -any- of the Seven Deadly >Sins. And as for Michael, it was -Gabriel- with the Islam >thing...and God -didn't- say Michael's Pride was good. Nowhere is >that stated. What -is- >stated is that Michael was a useful weapon in the War...that's it. Pride is what lets a man withstand unimaginable torment and not yield to his Fate. Note that this is not a political endorsement, but let's use the example of John McCain's POW experience. This is a man whose limbs were broken for *years.* Who was hung for hours from these broken limbs. All because he refused to be released by his captors -- the easiest thing in the world. But it would have demoralized others (McCain was the son of an Admiral -- the Viet Cong wanted to release him to make it seem like privileged children of the elite got special treatment) and would have served the purposes of his enemy. McCain was too proud, in himself, his family and his country, to let them succeed. And he won that private war. (Again, not a political endorsement, but a personal one -- if you will.) Pride keeps a man from stealing, instead having him find a job and earning him a living wage. Esprit de Corps -- the pride in one's fellows and in being a part of them -- makes a group stronger and whole, in a way David would approve. Pride kept Martin Luther King not only in the struggle for civil rights, but kept him non-violent in the face of terrific temptation. Pride leads to Honor, the Resonance of the Malakim. Without pride in one's self, in one's cause, in one's position, one's oaths are meaningless. Vainglory isn't good, no. But if the question is "is there anything good in -any- of the Seven Deadly Sins," I can certainly say there's something good in Pride. - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 12:01:21 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> [ADMIN] To erisraven@crosswinds.net! I'm u-n-s-u-b-s-c-r-i-b-i-n-g you _again_ -- I have over 18 bounces right in a row here. Once you've got a _stable_ account that doesn't keep giving me this message: ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to local: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 5.1.1 user unknown 550 ... User unknown ...then re-sub, but _please_ talk with your ISP and ask what's up?? (All the bounced messages come into _my_ email box. It's a real pain to check them all and see what the heck they are...) (And while I'm at it: apocalypse_k, your email box has overflowed. You're out too and can re-sub when you've got it cleaned out -- just keep it clean.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 08:53:58 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Khalid > >>>i never liked the fact that khalid was an elohite. i don't thnik faith and objectivity mix that well. he'd be much better as a seraph, absolutely *sure* of the Truth of God. or maybe a virtuous malakite.<<< > Khalid was made an Elohite because someone decided there weren't enough > Elohite Archangels. That's all there was to the decision. I've > rationalized it as best I could in his writeup. [ Possible game spoiler? Dunno. ] Is his Elohism present to make his irrational fanatacism even more hurtful, and his return to stable, confident, objective acceptance of God and Heaven more enjoyable? > -David (I agree with you.) Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 08:24:44 PST From: "Janet Anderson" Subject: IN> Loud noises and lesser noises So the Seraph of War and the Elohite of the Sword sneak into the demon's office while he's off looking for them somewhere else, find a notebook with his plans in them, rescue the human prisoner, and are planning how to smuggle the prisoner out of the building, when the demon comes back (probably to get his notebook) and they don't hear him come in the door (because it's open; the Seraph picked the lock) until he has them covered with a gun. In the ensuing melee, the following things happen in quick succession: 1) The demon, aiming at the angels, hits the human and kills him. 2) The Elohite summons her sword. 3) The Seraph charges and is wounded. 4) The Elohite is wounded. 5) The Elohite charges, with sword. 6) The demon sings a Corporeal Song of Shields which goes up briefly. 7) The Seraph sees a glass case on the wall labeled "In case of fire break glass" with a fire axe in it. She breaks the glass and acquires the axe. 8) The Song ends and the two angels pound on the demon with their respective weapons. 9) The demon takes celestial form (he's a Balseraph). 10) The demon goes back to Hell. Needless to say, the place now sounds like World War Three. The angels are heading for the roof to try to find reinforcements, and the Seraph wants to take a moment to do Songs of Healing on the two of them -- but there is a theory that this would make Too Much Noise. I say that after a human has been killed and a demon has taken celestial form and descended to Hell, two Songs at one essence each will never be noticed. Others say that existing noise won't drown out further actions. Which of us is correct? Janet Anderson ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 12:23:12 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> adam and co At 4:33 PM +0100 10/30/99, Liam wrote: >another idea, if lilith is still basically human, could she get pregnant and >have kids? would her children be human, or demonic, or something else? Well, this is all out in Wild Speculation Land, since I really doubt that you'd be able to hunt her down and interest her in pregnancy... (Especially after I've been coping with evening sickness; believe me, Lilith is not the sort who would put up with even mere months of feeling crappy and sick all the time.) I've figured that yes, if she chose to get pregnant, she could. If the sire were human, so would the kids be. If she used Fruition (if she _needs_ fruition -- not, mind you, that she'd be inclined to experiment and see if she were to celestials what the Grigori were to humans...), then the child's nature is whatever Fruition would have. If you do take the theory that Lilith is close enough to celestial nature to interbreed without a Song, you could say that they'd have a chance of being celestial if Daddy were a celestial. Probably Lilim. Or that's what I've figured. You could also easily say that by accepting her infernal coronet, she has rendered herself physically sterile (out of choice, corruption, whathaveyou). Or you could get really funky and say that all three of the Created Humans were sterile -- normally it doesn't take "several" years for functional humans to get pregnant, and IIRC, the APG said that Adam and Eve didn't have any bratlings while in Eden... (Which would mean the lineage in the Bible is entirely wholecloth, or that after the experiment was over, the remaining lab rats were turned into more normal humans, or something...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 09:36:54 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) > Actually, I'd say Dominic and the Judgies (ooo, there's a band name) are *twitch* > I still think Gabriel was this --><-- close to snapping. An Archangel ought Dominic has a lot of chutzpa to push Gabriel like that, too. As, arguably, the second-most powerful Celestial in Creation (discounting Lucifer), Gabriel could probably flash-fry the cloaked meany. I guess being surrounded by the Seraphim Council makes one brave. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 12:23:30 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Jordi and the Critters of Myth At 4:25 PM +0100 10/30/99, Liam wrote: >From: Elizabeth McCoy >> >> (Why, yes, the Moon was full recently. Why?) > >but surely... you couldn't mean... not the dreaded... Were-Platypus? *GRONK* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 12:25:38 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> adam and co At 10:40 AM -0600 10/30/99, Ben Glickler wrote: >>another idea, if lilith is still basically human, could she get pregnant >>and have kids? would her children be human, or demonic, or something else? > [...Lilith Plots The Capture Of A Boyfriend...] > We also tracked a disturbance one of our >watchers heard to an e-mail sent to Wally Hensburg, inviting him to lunch at >the Rose Garden Cafe. Just remember that, as a human, Lilith causes no more disturbance than a Soldier... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 12:34:32 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Khalid At 8:40 PM +0100 10/30/99, Liam wrote: >From: David Edelstein >i never liked the fact that khalid was an elohite. i don't thnik faith and >objectivity mix that well. he'd be much better as a seraph, absolutely >*sure* of the Truth of God. or maybe a virtuous malakite. Maybe Uriel got distracted when he was creating Khalid. ("Huh? Oh, drat, hand slipped... There goes the left wing. Drat. Well, let's just take off the right one and make him an Elohite instead...") - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 12:32:25 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Yves? At 12:26 PM -0600 10/30/99, Ben Glickler wrote: >Where does Yves come from? I don't like the idea that he's merely a handy >construct for the game, but I also can't find anything. In the French version, there is no Michael. ("What?" you cry. "No Archangel of War bare-chested with a pony-tail and bloodspattered and BUILT! HORRORS!") That's right, no Michael. There _is_ a Mikel (I think that's the spelling?) who is a reformed viking sort or something like that. That's where the Big Axe comes from. In the French version, or so I've heard, _Yves_ is the Michael-figure, though he doesn't go around looking buff. But he gets the First Soul aspect. (IIRC, he's also the "Archangel of Beginnings.") I don't know when the Michael we all love and admire and ogle was added in. Fairly early, since I don't think I've ever seen a draft which doesn't have him. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 12:39:23 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Dominic Discussion (Re: Nicole Fluff) At 9:56 AM -0800 10/31/99, Azrael wrote: >[Dominic's] attunements, what's going on there? Talk about the most useless >stuff I've seen. Ewww wow, 7 hits of damage, 7 hits of damage every round, guarenteed, until the target either dies or leaves the plane the Sword of Judgment (aka Heavenly Judgment) was invoked upon. That ain't shabby. And all you have to do is invoke it and then run off and get out of the way while it does its thing. Not to mention that all of my lot use "Fiat Justitia" to invoke it (everything sounds better in Latin), and it gets loads of SFX as it forges itself out of light and air into the invoker's upraised hand. I don't call that one useless. I call that one Demon Hamburger. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 08:41:16 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Pride IS a sin (was Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff)) I think the problem is partly one of semantics. After all, Fortitude (which covers a lot of the 'refusing to give up even under stress' examples) is actually one of the 7 noble virtues. So it evidently isn't considered to be the same as Pride. There's also a difference between the sin of pride and esprit de corps (although when taken to extremes, it IS pride which leads to Nationalism, xenophobia and various other nasties). No, I think the pride they are talking about is when you are so full of yourself that you can barely think or talk about anything else. When megalomania twists your perceptions so much that you think only about your OWN glory and how you can better it, and consider yourself to be better than anyone else, above any advice that anyone else could offer, and maybe even better than God. Basically, it's when you choose to blind yourself so much with your own pride and pig-headedness, that you can't hear any other voices. Pride was the sin of the tower of babel. Pride was the sin of Lucifer. And Michael ;) jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 03:28:25 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> Dominic Good/Bad? From: Michael Martin > He's never gotten a check digit of 6 when dealing with Gabriel or Michael. > (This is a logical reason for him not being Seraphic). why hasn't he got a CD of 6 (or whatever)? i don't see why seeing the "truth" while in conversation with michael and gabriel would change his opinion in any way. he's never accused them of lying. he's accused michael of being proud (which is true) and gabriel of being mad (which is also true). another point would be that choir resonances don't work that well on superiors, presumably even if it's a superior trying to use it liam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 03:30:22 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> What are Laurence's Oaths? From: David Streeter > > Laurence is a Malakite.. what are his oaths? > 1 - never suffer an evil to live 2 - never surrender to the forces of lucifer 3 - do his very best to win the war against hell 4 - make sure his hair looks good at all times, even in combat liam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 03:31:44 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> Khalid From: David Edelstein > Khalid was made an Elohite because someone decided there weren't enough > Elohite Archangels. That's all there was to the decision. I've > rationalized it as best I could in his writeup. fair enough liam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 09:43:35 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) > You're kidding. I've found the Judgement Attunements to be -stunningly- useful for the -job- of Judgement. The Cherub, Ofanite, Elohite, and Malakite Resonances are fonts of information, and the local laws help > with one of his Rites. And 7 points of damage...a round...until caller or target is dead. Average badass Calabite will go down in 7-8 rounds. I've forgotten, does armor protect against this seven points? And can you dodge it? Or does it Just Happen? And, for game effect, do you wield the sword and it just swings for you, or does it fly around by itself? And I think Dominic's distinctions are really darned cool. Mortals get pretty uppity sometimes, especially when they don't know they're talking to Celestials. Ever seen a mortal try to mug a Malakite? > Frankly, I can't see anything good in -any- of the Seven Deadly Sins. And as for Michael, it was -Gabriel- with the Islam thing...and God -didn't- say Michael's Pride was good. Nowhere is that stated. What -is- > stated is that Michael was a useful weapon in the War...that's it. "Without pride -- and Michael -- Heaven's greatest battles would be lost." Heaven needs pride. Not the pride Hell has, which, like you've said, is hubris, but the pride that lets one be able to stand up for one's cause and feel *right*, or to let one look in the mirror every morning and feel cheered by the fact that you're fighting the good fight. That's the sort of pride Michael represents. Lucifer and Baal take their pride one step further and turn it into selfishness. > - Abracax: Shedite of Riots Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 09:45:17 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: IN> =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_IN=3E_=3C=28=A9=BF=A9=29=3E_Find_Out_What_They_Don't?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Want_You_To_Know!?= > cronies (with Vapula) are as busy as ever. Damn Demon of Spam...anyone > ever (or intend to) do a writeup of it? The Demon of Spam would have a horribly boring writeup before the advent of the Internet. All he had going for him was one half-decent Weird Al song and a ton of canned meat. > - Abracax: Shedite of Riots Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 09:53:26 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Loud noises and lesser noises A Seraph picked the lock? He's the man. > Needless to say, the place now sounds like World War Three. The angels are > heading for the roof to try to find reinforcements, and the Seraph wants to > take a moment to do Songs of Healing on the two of them -- but there is a > theory that this would make Too Much Noise. > > I say that after a human has been killed and a demon has taken celestial > form and descended to Hell, two Songs at one essence each will never be > noticed. Others say that existing noise won't drown out further actions. > Which of us is correct? There's an echo theory -- kill three humans, and first, you hear the death of one, then two, then three. This means that the two added expenditures of essence give everyone nearby two more chances to hear the ruckus all over again. (The one essence doesn't add noticeably to the range at which you can be heard.) It's like breaking into a house and accidentally knocking an entire table of silverware over. And then doing it two more times. Your angels could assume that everyone who could hear already heard, so to Hell with it, or they could assume that Demons, who are generally more Will-geared than Perception-geared, may not have heard yet, and who wants to give them two more chances? Tell your angels to invest in the Song of Thunder or the Celestial Song of Shields. > Janet Anderson Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 12:45:49 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Clones and... AI in IN At 4:18 PM +0100 10/30/99, Liam wrote: >From: Trent > >> Do we not create a new should every time a woman gives birth (at least)? >> Are human clones soulless monsters? > >that's different though. the point was that you could (presumably) make an >exact copy of an AI, presumably then creating an exact copy of its forces. a >clone isn't an exact copy of a human. it's genetically the same, sure, but >it may well have an entirely different personality (and destiny and fate) >due to its upbringing (Now, to get _really_ sticky, go to GURPS TL-whatever tech of _braintaping._ Hi-res braintaping, to be specific, for those who have Ultra-Tech 2. Basically, it makes a perfect copy of a human's memories... And can be played back into a mind-blank clone. (Or there's direct memory transfer, if braintapes can't be stored for some reason.) So, you can have about _fifty_ of Joe Mortal Billionaire running around (provided he's that vain and gets along with himself that well). Now, put _that_ in Yves' pipe and see what he says...) [Or get even more complex. Take the process called "brainwipe" which erases everything but basic functionality (i.e., everything at the instinct level, that you don't have to remember how to do), and basic personality... Apply it to someone. Does he still have the same soul? Yes? Okay. Now, get a mind-blank clone and a _copy_ of his pre-brainwipe state. Now, you have Mr. Amnesia and Mr. Copy running around -- which one is the "real" person?] [AKA, "Why Our GURPS Space Game Did Not Deal With Religious Issues Like That, Thank You Very Much."] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 11:55:52 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) At 9:36 AM -0700 11/1/99, Ben Glickler wrote: > > Actually, I'd say Dominic and the Judgies (ooo, there's a band name) >are > >*twitch* > > > I still think Gabriel was this --><-- close to snapping. An Archangel >ought > >Dominic has a lot of chutzpa to push Gabriel like that, too. As, arguably, >the second-most powerful Celestial in Creation (discounting Lucifer), >Gabriel could probably flash-fry the cloaked meany. Well, Gabriel *also* (and more to the point, I'd think) has a pipeline to the divine. The ineffable One himself. It's been pointed out before that Dominic would never Judge Yves because of that connection with the divine and Yves's willingness to help out... but he would Judge Gabriel.... And as Michael has pointed out before, Gabriel's innocence or guilt could be simply be determined by Yves himself. But he hasn't said a thing about it.... Hm... Michael has a point. Maybe Dominic called the wrong Archangel up on the block.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 09:02:15 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) >From: "Ben Glickler" > > > > Actually, I'd say Dominic and the Judgies (ooo, there's a band name) >are > >*twitch* > Hmm. Dunno. "Judge D." sounds a bit like a rapper's stage name. jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 12:09:38 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Clones and... AI in IN At 12:45 PM -0400 11/1/99, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >[Or get even more complex. Take the process called "brainwipe" which >erases everything but basic functionality (i.e., everything at the >instinct level, that you don't have to remember how to do), and basic >personality... Apply it to someone. Does he still have the same soul? >Yes? Okay. Now, get a mind-blank clone and a _copy_ of his pre-brainwipe >state. Now, you have Mr. Amnesia and Mr. Copy running around -- which one >is the "real" person?] [Yves] It is a sad thing to watch one's Ethereal Forces wiped out. I do hope he will get new ones. Ah -- the Ethereal Forces of that mortal have been made to resemble the Ethereal Forces of the original. Well, that's nice.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 12:12:23 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: Pride IS a sin (was Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff)) At 8:41 AM -0800 11/1/99, Jo Hart wrote: >No, I think the pride they are talking about is when you are so full >of yourself that you can barely think or talk about anything else. >When megalomania twists your perceptions so much that you think only >about your OWN glory and how you can better it, and consider >yourself to be better than anyone else, above any advice that anyone >else could offer, and maybe even better than God. Basically, it's >when you choose to blind yourself so much with your own pride and >pig-headedness, that you can't hear any other voices. > >Pride was the sin of the tower of babel. Pride was the sin of >Lucifer. And Michael ;) I absolutely agree. But that doesn't mean there aren't virtuous forms of Pride as well. It is a Deadly Sin which has a broader application that isn't sinful at all. Put another way, the Demonic Word Pride was the sin of Babel, Lucifer and Michael, but the Angelic Word Pride surrounds and exceeds the Demonic word in all ways. But the line between them is blurry at best.... (I have an Archangel of Pride in my campaign. He's the third -- the Seraph and the Mercurian both Fell. And the Elohite recently went Renegade....) - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 12:40:11 -0500 (EST) From: "Rev. Pee Kitty" Subject: Re: IN> Loud noises and lesser noises On Mon, 1 Nov 1999, Janet Anderson wrote: > I say that after a human has been killed and a demon has taken celestial > form and descended to Hell, two Songs at one essence each will never be > noticed. Others say that existing noise won't drown out further actions. > Which of us is correct? According to the IN Book, anytime you do ANYTHING that causes disturbance, in an area that's already ringing with disturbance, you ADD THE NEW DISTURBANCE to the EXISTING DISTURBANCE. Example: The human was killed, causing (let's say) an 18 point disturbance overall. Then the demon went celestial, total 11 point disturbance, which means the demon going celestial caused a *29 point* disturbance. Then he went to hell (another 9 points), which caused a 38 point disturbance! Your little 2-disturbance song will actually cause a 40 point disturbance, and the next performance of it will be a 42 point disturbance. So basically if a ton of stuff happens in a 30 second combat, and you want to know how far it'll spread, you add together EVERYTHING that happened, and base it all on that. - -- Rev. Pee Kitty, of the order Malkavian-Dobbsian Meow! GET SOME SLACK, CREATE SOME SLACK, OR DIE THESE ARE YOUR *ONLY* CHOICES -- St. Bubba ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 13:26:22 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Candidates for a Fall At 3:10 AM -0800 11/2/99, Steel Angel wrote: >Jean: Extremely unlikely.[...] Subject would also experience near total >loss of research facility and data. But can't you just see the fire-works inherent in the concept of a hostile takeover of Tartarus! ("Wordless stick-in-the-mud!" "Feckless upstart!" *ZAP*BLAM*BOOM*RAT-TAT-TAT-TAT*ZAP*ZAP*ZAP*) (I never have been able to figure out if Lucifer would offer a Fallen Jean the Word of Electricity, or Storms... I think perhaps the latter, which might actually be more scary.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 13:24:19 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> New Dominic Theory: EloDom Michael Martin wrote: > > >> Comments? I have often maintained that Dominic would be _happier_ as an Elohite. Poor guy. Of course, when he got his Word, having someone who could cut to the Truth of the matter was probably more useful. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 13:32:13 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Loud noises and lesser noises At 8:24 AM -0800 11/1/99, Janet Anderson wrote: >Needless to say, the place now sounds like World War Three. The angels are >heading for the roof to try to find reinforcements, and the Seraph wants to >take a moment to do Songs of Healing on the two of them -- but there is a >theory that this would make Too Much Noise. > >I say that after a human has been killed and a demon has taken celestial >form and descended to Hell, two Songs at one essence each will never be >noticed. Others say that existing noise won't drown out further actions. >Which of us is correct? If the Songs -- and remember that Songs have _additional_ disturbance, often, not just the Essence-cost! -- are performed too close (as the GM rules) in space-time to all the other disturbance... Then the disturbance for the Songs (Essence + Additional Disturbance) will be _ADDED_ to the extant disturbance. So, if you've got a level 30 disturbance, and you're at ground-zero when you perform your Corporeal Song of Healing, it's... If Unsuccessful: 1 (the Essence) +30 (the previous disturbance) - --- =31 disturbance. If successful: 1 (the Essence) + 3 (the check digit) +30 (the previous disturbance) - --- 34 disturbance. This is an _additional_ gong. Giving even more people a chance to hear you, from further away, and with echoes that reverberate for longer. So, no, with the exception of the Song of Thunder, disturbance adds, not conceals. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1386 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.