From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Nov 1 21:06:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (root@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA08377 for ; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 21:06:48 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id UAA06282 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 1 Nov 1999 20:28:15 -0600 Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 20:28:15 -0600 Message-Id: <199911020228.UAA06282@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1387 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, November 1 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1387 In this digest: Re: IN> Clones and... AI in IN Re: Pride IS a sin (was Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff)) Re: IN> Candidates for a Fall Re: IN> What are Laurence's Oaths? IN> Gabriel & Dominic (Re: Nicole Fluff) Re: IN> Loud noises and lesser noises IN> Falling Archangels (Yves) Re: IN> Candidates for a Fall Re: IN> adam and co IN> Get ready! Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Re: IN> adam and co IN> adam and co IN> More Dominic Re: IN> What are Laurence's Oaths? Re: IN> Falling Archangels (Yves) Re: IN> adam and co Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Re: IN> Falling Archangels (Yves) Re: IN> adam and co Re: IN> Falling Archangels (Yves) Re: IN> Falling Archangels (Yves) IN> Pride (was "Nicole Fluff") Re: IN> Candidates for a Fall Re: IN> Falling Archangels (Yves) Re: IN> adam and co Re: IN> adam and co Re: IN> Falling Archangels (Yves) Re: IN> Falling Archangels (Yves) Re: IN> Candidates for a Fall Re: IN> Re: What Celestials Bring to Earth IN> Candidates for a Climb Re: IN> Clones and... AI in IN Re: IN> Yves? Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) Re: IN> Candidates for a Climb Re: IN> Candidates for a Climb Re: IN> Falling Archangels (Yves) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 10:29:03 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Clones and... AI in IN > [Or get even more complex. Take the process called "brainwipe" which > erases everything but basic functionality (i.e., everything at the > instinct level, that you don't have to remember how to do), and basic > personality... Apply it to someone. Does he still have the same soul? > Yes? Okay. Now, get a mind-blank clone and a _copy_ of his pre-brainwipe > state. Now, you have Mr. Amnesia and Mr. Copy running around -- which one > is the "real" person?] > > > > [AKA, "Why Our GURPS Space Game Did Not Deal With Religious Issues Like > That, Thank You Very Much."] Or, "How Yves and the Gang constructed the very first Kyriotates." Heaven knows the soul is not limited to one body, and maybe cloning is Vapula's way of thumbing his nose at the Kyriotates (and the Shedim, nasty nasty Shedim). Maybe human clones, lacking the connection to the Symphony the Kyriotates revel in, will be limited by their bodies, cutting each off from the other. > --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor > GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 12:48:15 -0500 From: Mason Kramer Subject: Re: Pride IS a sin (was Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff)) > (I have an Archangel of Pride in my campaign. He's the third -- the > Seraph and the Mercurian both Fell. And the Elohite recently went > Renegade....) (A century ago. But in celestial terms, I guess that's recently...) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 12:49:31 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Candidates for a Fall At 1:26 PM -0400 11/1/99, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >At 3:10 AM -0800 11/2/99, Steel Angel wrote: > > >Jean: Extremely unlikely.[...] Subject would also experience near total > >loss of research facility and data. > >But can't you just see the fire-works inherent in the concept of a >hostile takeover of Tartarus! ("Wordless stick-in-the-mud!" "Feckless >upstart!" *ZAP*BLAM*BOOM*RAT-TAT-TAT-TAT*ZAP*ZAP*ZAP*) > >(I never have been able to figure out if Lucifer would offer a Fallen >Jean the Word of Electricity, or Storms... I think perhaps the latter, >which might actually be more scary.) [Jean] I must punish the world. I must rack them with horrors, with tornadoes. With winds. With thunders and lightnings and droughts. I am the horrors of weather given form. I am... the Demon Prince of El Nino. "The World is a Tropical Depression, causing a buildup of moisture and an alteration of normal jetstream effect...." (Kobal leans over to Nybbas. "Are you *sure* he's not still an Elohite?") - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 13:33:02 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> What are Laurence's Oaths? At 12:56 PM -0800 10/31/99, David Streeter wrote: >Laurence is a Malakite.. what are his oaths? They're in the forthcoming Superiors 1 book. So are David's. (The Archangel of Stone's, not yours. Or Edelstein's. Or the son of some gamer friends of ours. I know way too many Davids...) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 13:39:58 -0400 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Gabriel & Dominic (Re: Nicole Fluff) At 11:55 AM -0500 11/1/99, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >Well, Gabriel *also* (and more to the point, I'd think) has a >pipeline to the divine. The ineffable One himself. Yeah, but she's also a loon -- can you _tell_ when she's channeling God and when she's just raving? (For some Semi-Coherent Gabrielite Ravings, there's always... http://www.access.digex.net/~fiat/week2/d6/log19b2.html Yes, it's a Fiat reference -- the Gabriel quotes are in bold.) >And as Michael has pointed out before, Gabriel's innocence or guilt >could be simply be determined by Yves himself. But he hasn't said a >thing about it.... Also note that there are a few more tweaks, which are in the forthcoming... O:> (Mostly that Gabriel apparently jumped the gun, and that there were _discrepencies_ in the Koran Yves had, and the one that the humans had, and no one was saying where they crept in or why. And when invited (well, ordered) to explain, Gabriel picked up his marbles in a huff and left.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 11:04:41 -0800 (PST) From: john karakash Subject: Re: IN> Loud noises and lesser noises - --- Janet Anderson wrote: > Needless to say, the place now sounds like World War > Three. The angels are > heading for the roof to try to find reinforcements, > and the Seraph wants to > take a moment to do Songs of Healing on the two of > them -- but there is a > theory that this would make Too Much Noise. > > I say that after a human has been killed and a demon > has taken celestial > form and descended to Hell, two Songs at one essence > each will never be > noticed. Others say that existing noise won't drown > out further actions. > Which of us is correct? They are. Each additional ding on the Symphony causes a bigger and noisier wave. And, because of the nature of how disturbance is calculated, it can be heard at geometrically greater distances. IOW, once you've been noisy, you have to be vewwwy, vewwwy quiet for awhile before you can risk more Disturbance. ===== +++Author, cook, computer genius, modest as heck +++ John Karakash __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 12:34:34 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: IN> Falling Archangels (Yves) Yves Demon Prince of Secrets "The world has secrets, and I know them all." Yves is as he was -- calm, quiet, assured, and always polite. His secure demeanor, an island in a Hell of insecurities and hatefulness, is as unnerving as anything Asmodeus or Kronos could conjure up. And he still knows. The thing is, he isn't telling. Not long after his Fall, Yves, as is his habit, took one of his walks. He gazed over the realms of Hell, surveying the various principalities. He stood before the vast archives of Kronos and Asmodeus, studying records he once searched on Heaven's behalf. He watched over the emptied realms of dead Princes. And then he walked with Lucifer. No-one knows what they discussed -- Yves sure isn't telling -- but Yves emerged with the Word of Secrets, a Principality, and the favor of Lucifer. Knowledge is power, and Yves commands a great deal of both. He isn't overtly cruel; instead, he thrives on subtlety. Blackmail falls under his Word, and when you know just about everything, blackmail comes easy. Yves has been known to, even now, comment on Destiny -- his servitors claim they are just making it more challenging for humanity. After all, are you really achieving your Destiny when there are skeletons in the closet? Why Yves Fell is subject to much speculation, on both sides of the War. Heaven knows he just took a walk and never came back. Some, like Michael, have their own cynical theories. Others in Heaven don't know, but are working to undo the damage. Kronos would surely know, but Kronos has fallen into disfavor and weakness since Yves appeared in Hell. Lucifer may know, but bringing up something so touchy as why angels Fall to the first of the Fallen is unhealthy to any demon. Yves surely knows, but he won't tell. DISSONANCE It is dissonant for servitors of Yves to reveal any diabolical secret to mortals without Yves' express permission. This includes the secret of the War and the existence of Celestials. Any mortals who know such secrets are routinely targetted for termination. On the other hand, mortal secrets are fair game. A servant of Yves who discovers a mortal's damaging secret but fails to reveal it is also dissonant. CHOIR ATTUNEMENTS Balseraphs - -------------- By invoking their resonance on a mortal, a Balseraph of Yves may completely gain that person's trust for a number of hours equal to the check digit. Djinn - -------------- Yves' Djinn can use their resonance to discover their attuned's darkest secret, similar to the distinction granted by Malphas. The check digit determines how awful the secret is. The GM may rule, of course, that some mortals only have so bad a secret. The Djinn are allowed to harm their victim if they victim does not, when confronted, make his secret public. Calabim - ----------- By revealing a human's secrets to them, Yves' Calabim can cause Ethereal damage with their resonance as a form of blackmail. They may continue to do this until the human suffers one level of Ethereal Discord (not true discord, but the human equivalent), or until the human submits to the Calabite's blackmail. Habbalah - ---------- Habbalah in Yves' service may use their resonance on someone to find what secret causes the victim the most guilt. If successful, they may add the check digit on their next use of their resonance upon that person. Lilim - ------------ Always the best at blackmail, Yves' Lilim may subtract their Celestial forces from their victim's will when attempting to collect on their Gaesa. Shedim - --------------- Yves' Shedim must corrupt their hosts, but they must do so in such a manner that their actions are kept secret. To do otherwise causes dissonance. Once they have abandoned their host, the secrets are fair game. While possessing a host they have access to all of that person's secret with a mere resonance invokation. Impudites - ----------------- These servitors still maintain, through Yves, a connection with the Symphony. They can see the Destiny of any mortal from whom they have taken essence. If they know any of the mortal's secrets, they know which one would most prevent that Destiny from taking place. SERVITOR ATTUNEMENTS Skeletons in the Closet - ----------------------- For 2 essence, the demon may convince a human that a secret is so great that it must be protected at all costs. A will roll may be made by the human to avoid killing to protect the secret, but nothing else is sacred. Power of Babel - ------------------------------ The demon may, by expending 1 essence, disrupt all conversation within a number of yards equal to their Celestial forces. Any words come out as gibberish. Hand signals are misunderstood, or worse, misinterpreted. This effect lasts for 10 minutes times the demon's Celestial forces, even if the victims leave the area of effect. DISTINCTIONS Knight of Blackmail - ----------------------- This level of distinction allows the demon to instantly tell if someone is blackmailing anyone else. Captain of Conspiracy - -------------------------- These demons may convince any mortal with a will of 1 or 2 to believe any secret the demon knows. They may only do this once to any mortal. Baron of Secrets - --------------------------------- As above, but the secret need not be true. For 1 essence, this will work on victims with a will of 3 or less. RELATIONS Although many of the Princes despise and distrust Yves, he merely smiles and goes about his business, treating them none the worse. By association, he has come to terms with Asmodeus, who finds Yves' ability to uncover secrets very useful. Kobal has also worked his way into Yves' good graces, and the two have put together what could almost be termed a friendship. Kronos has diminished, both in power and in spirit, since Yves' arrival in Hell. It is speculated that only one of the two can exist in Hell. This has caused Kronos to do everything within his power to get Yves out of Hell, which inadventantly is pushing Yves back towards his destiny, which inadventantly is dissonant for Kronos. Even worse, the chance of an eternity has slipped through his fingers, as the advantage gained by Hell by the removal of Yves has been destroyed by the sudden impotence Kronos is experiencing. Poor Kronos. Yves does have a few carefully hidden secrets -- he is still talking to old friends in Heaven. His mysterious connection with Gabriel endures, and he has helped Asmodeus by pointing Gabriel in the direction of some Renegades. Novalis also tries hard to bring Yves around. Of the other Demon Princes, only Haagenti, Malphas and Nybbas are not openly hostile to Yves. Allied: No-one Associated: Kobal, Asmodeus Hostile: No-one BASIC RITES * Burn a book that reveals some fact or secret (biographies are popular for this...) * Encourage a mortal to keep a crime secret (don't forget your dissonance requirements) * Disrupt someone's destiny by making them believe a lie CHANCE OF INVOCATION: 0 Invocation Modifiers +1 A stolen private letter. E-mail or a diary works +2 A frontpage story revealing some scandal +3 Destroy a stack of seven banned books +4 Destroy four different versions of the Bible +5 Shout your true name +6 Reveal why Yves Fell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 19:25:07 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> Candidates for a Fall From: Steel Angel > New thread!! Archangels, are they Fall canidates, if so, why? I commence, > succinctly, from a Servitor of Judgement's POV (think not Dominic himself is > immune, though). cool :) liam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 19:26:30 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> adam and co From: Steel Angel > > another idea, if lilith is still basically human, could she get pregnant and > > have kids? would her children be human, or demonic, or something else? > > I'd say as well as anyone with the Song of Fruition could. > well, obviously. i meant could she still have sex and get pregnant like an ordinary human liam ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:26:45 -0500 From: hello2324@msn.com Subject: IN> Get ready! Watch our HIDDEN CAMERAS, in GIRLS Locker Rooms, Showers, Toilets!!! JOIN FOR FREE!!! http://3521846444/netroamer/nrsite/users/5yrw35y/freejoin2.html JOIN FOR FREE!!! *Models ACTUALLY perform LIVE as you watch them from the comfort and privacy of your home!!! *DIRECT LINK to the Amsterdam teenagers LIVE FUCKING shows!!!! PLUS++: *100,000 ONLINE VIDEO CLIPS!!!!! *10,000 STORIES! *SEX with SOUND!! *Want ALL OF THIS and MORE FREEEEE??? CLICK HERE TO ACCESS!!!! http://3521846444/netroamer/nrsite/users/5yrw35y/freejoin2.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 19:24:31 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) From: Steel Angel > and God -didn't- say Michael's Pride was good. Nowhere is that stated. What -is- > stated is that Michael was a useful weapon in the War...that's it. > though i'd go along with most of what you said about the seven deadly sins, you're wrong on the above point. check out the bit on michael in the main rulebook; "God intervened and acquited Michael, not because he was innocent but because without pride and glory - and Michael - Heaven's greatest battles would be lost" liam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 15:48:17 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> adam and co Liam wrote: > well, obviously. i meant could she still have sex and get pregnant > like an ordinary human The only obstacle I can think of is that she might be WAY past menopause... Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 13:51:42 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> adam and co >>>(Especially after I've been coping with evening sickness; believe me, Lilith is not the sort who would put up with even mere months of feeling crappy and sick all the time.)<<< It would be really nice if you'd at least not make your self-identification with Lilith *quite* so blatant. Anyway, Lilith being a Demon Princess, I'm sure she could manage a pregnancy sans morning sickness and disability. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 13:54:04 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> More Dominic >>>Dominic has a lot of chutzpa to push Gabriel like that, too. As, arguably, the second-most powerful Celestial in Creation (discounting Lucifer), Gabriel could probably flash-fry the cloaked meany. I guess being surrounded by the Seraphim Council makes one brave.<<< Or being selected by God to hold the Word of Judgment does. What kind of Seraph would he be if he backed down from the Truth when it might endanger him? If Gabriel *did* flash-fry him, it would pretty much prove he was right, wouldn't it? - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 13:56:46 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: Re: IN> What are Laurence's Oaths? >>>1 - never suffer an evil to live 2 - never surrender to the forces of lucifer 3 - do his very best to win the war against hell 4 - make sure his hair looks good at all times, even in combat<<< Not quite. But his actual oaths *are* found in Superiors 1. :) - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 15:08:36 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Falling Archangels (Yves) At 12:34 PM -0700 11/1/99, Ben Glickler wrote: >Yves >Demon Prince of Secrets Alaemon and Gebbeleth look up. "It's *TAKEN!* Yee--" Suddenly, Lucifer smiles a bit, and the pair are component Forces. Lucifer knows when to trade a pair of deuces for a king, after all.... That being said, the writeup should probably address what happened to Alaemon, as while Yves would no doubt be *vastly* more useful to Hell, Alaemon is pretty entrenched in the Word of Secrets at this point, and is also uncommonly used to sharing his Word and stealing power from the other who holds it (albiet one not in a position to use it....) Also, Prince Yves might do well to substitute Alaemon's Lilim attunement (a truly nasty one) for the one he's got here. Assuming the secret of creating that Attunement doesn't go to the grave with Alaemon.... *All* that being said, I'd think Lucifer wouldn't specifically waste a Prince for a new one, when Yves could be given so many Words. The Word of Ineffibility, perhaps. Or become Prince of Mysteries, whereby Yves can slowly suborn all of Alaemon's power... or not, as the Dark Man desires, smiling.... (Why yes, I have a reason to be interested... ) - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 14:17:32 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> adam and co From: Elizabeth McCoy > > (Which would mean the lineage in the Bible is entirely wholecloth, or that > after the experiment was over, the remaining lab rats were turned into > more normal humans, or something...) The latter would scan more closely with the translations of Genesis I've read, with God inflicting the ability to get pregnant upon Eve as part of punishing her and Adam for eating the forbidden fruit. Prodigal Demon of Calling In to Tech Support Without the Product Nearby ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 14:20:54 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) From: Ben Glickler > > Heaven needs pride. Not the pride Hell has, which, like you've said, is > hubris, but the pride that lets one be able to stand up for one's cause and > feel *right*, or to let one look in the mirror every morning and feel > cheered by the fact that you're fighting the good fight. That's the sort of > pride Michael represents. Lucifer and Baal take their pride one step > further and turn it into selfishness. The fine distinction upon which it all hinges, IMO, is what one takes pride in. If you take pride in being part of a worthy cause, like the war against Hell, frex, that's not such a bad thing. When you start taking pride in yourself and your own abilites, however, you've started down the slippery slope to Hell. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 14:29:10 -0600 From: Shadowstar Subject: Re: IN> Falling Archangels (Yves) At 12:34 PM -0700 11/1/99, Ben Glickler wrote: >Yves >Demon Prince of Secrets Nice and twisted. Though Alaemon is already the Prince of Secrets (Minor Superior in the GM Screen). . . >CHOIR ATTUNEMENTS ^^^^^ Band Attunements. Be seeing you, - - Tafka J. = shadowstar@centurytel.net # Balseraph of Fate, Marquis of Delusions of Grandeur * http://www.best.com/~lyceum/shdwstar/in-nomine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 14:31:36 -0600 From: Uncle Wolf Subject: Re: IN> adam and co Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > Liam wrote: > > > well, obviously. i meant could she still have sex and get pregnant > > like an ordinary human > > The only obstacle I can think of is that she might be WAY past > menopause... > This brings to mind Another Subject Best Not Mentioned To Lilith's Face [tm] : Based on one of the legends of how she spent her post-Eden time, there are two words sure to get you hurt, when spoken directly to Lilith's face: Stretch Marks. [grinning, ducking, and running] Tom Timberlake, Cherub of Poingy Goodness [g] - -- "Strange blood, howl again, for now we know to well Better a friend on paths unknown, than to be alone in Hell!" --"Strange Blood" "A Wolfrider's Reflection", various artist ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 14:30:42 -0600 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> Falling Archangels (Yves) umm...what about Alaemon, the current Demon Prince of Secrets (Feast of Blades in the GM Pack)? - - Dennis H, Groome V "Amo Nympham" ICQ: 11430261 http://welcome.to/EvM_Gamers "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -Stabbing Westward, "ACF" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 13:36:57 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Falling Archangels (Yves) I'd explain poor Alaemon, but that would spoil the secret. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 16:38:57 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Pride (was "Nicole Fluff") Another name for the sin called "pride" is "vanity." This more clearly links the sin to self-centeredness. Both English words are trying to translate the (original?) Latin word "Superbia." I think that, in Jungian terms, it's very like "inflation," and also very like classical Greek "hubris." The general idea, I think, is self-centeredness expressed as having too high an opinion of one's own worth. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 14:45:13 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Candidates for a Fall From: Whistling in the Dark > > [Jean] I must punish the world. I must rack them with horrors, with > tornadoes. With winds. With thunders and lightnings and droughts. > I am the horrors of weather given form. > > I am... the Demon Prince of El Nino. > > "The World is a Tropical Depression, causing a buildup of moisture > and an alteration of normal jetstream effect...." > > (Kobal leans over to Nybbas. "Are you *sure* he's not still an Elohite?") To which Nybbas replies "Who CARES? Killer storms mean ratings, baby!" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 15:49:14 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Falling Archangels (Yves) At 1:36 PM -0700 11/1/99, Ben Glickler wrote: >I'd explain poor Alaemon, but that would spoil the secret. With Alaemon, if you don't see the body, he ain't dead. You only think he's dead. And that captive in the Houses of Secrets? That's really a Damned Soul named Joe Weiss Alaemon got creative with after reading Double Star. The Alaemon who got blown up in Hades? Actually a sophisticated Vapulan duplicant. All while a little old lady-Shedite wandered along with a secret smile on her ooze-sucker.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 16:24:37 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> adam and co At 1:51 PM -0600 11/1/99, David Edelstein wrote: >>>>(Especially after I've been coping with evening sickness; believe me, >Lilith is not the sort who would put up with even mere months of feeling >crappy and sick all the time.)<<< > >It would be really nice if you'd at least not make your >self-identification with Lilith *quite* so blatant. Anyway, Lilith being >a Demon Princess, I'm sure she could manage a pregnancy sans morning >sickness and disability. Hey, Novalis isn't going to do it either. Or Blandine, or Gabriel, and let me tell you, any female-vesseled celestial who uses the Song of Fruition is going to regret it. Misery loves miserable company, you see, and I'll take my small pleasures where I can. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 16:32:27 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> adam and co At 4:24 PM -0500 11/1/99, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >Misery loves miserable company, you see, and I'll take my small pleasures >where I can. Or, to put it more clearly: * Lilith is not going to have any children of her body in canon. (Rumors, maybe. Who knows.) It just opens up too many game-mechanics cans of worms. I can think of a half-dozen just now and I'm sure anyone else can too. With frills. * I'm feeling miserable, and when the LE feels miserable for explicitly feminine reasons, it's not a good time to be a female character within typewriting range. * If I combine the above two points, I get a perfectly plausible, funny-to- me reason for _why_ not any body-birth Lilim. (Do I have to put "" around everything I write? Smilies? Does writing "Well, this is all out in Wild Speculation Land," NOT COUNT? Geeze.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 07:53:58 +1100 From: "Leath Sheales" Subject: Re: IN> Falling Archangels (Yves) Dennis wrote: > umm...what about Alaemon, the current Demon Prince of Secrets (Feast of > Blades in the GM Pack)? Fell as a standard little Mercurian, worked his way up from there. Leath. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 18:59:18 -0500 From: Ben Aldred Subject: Re: IN> Falling Archangels (Yves) At 02:30 PM 11/1/99 -0600, you wrote: >umm...what about Alaemon, the current Demon Prince of Secrets (Feast of >Blades in the GM Pack)? > actually what they don't tell you is that Yves IS Alaemon. that's the big secret Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 19:47:46 -0500 From: Kim Foster Subject: Re: IN> Candidates for a Fall Just to throw things in reverse, which Princes seems like possible candiates for Redemption? Or do any of them... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 01:26:03 +0100 From: Pak Chan Subject: Re: IN> Re: What Celestials Bring to Earth At 16:05 01/11/1999 -0800, Azrael wrote: >[from my post on What celestials bring to earth, about a completely >infatuated cherub] >> >> Sounds more like a stalker...one step from Djinnhood. >> >> > >Well, I suppose you could say that, but the difference is that this Cherub >loves Carol, >Tariel from a Bright Dream looves his attuned...he might have fallen, >ummm.......errrr...well...!?! > >What can I say? I see a Cherub as a stalker, I see a Djinn as a stalker, >however the difference is that >Cherubim love their attuned, they may obsess over them but they will protect >them with all their might, >where as Djinn don't love their attuned (that's what they say anyway), and >well ummm...I don't really >get how Djinn work (mentally, I understand the mechanic, but not the >mindset). I wouldn't say that >this Cherub is any different from many other Cherubim, well, in a dark >campaign anyway. The whole Cherub/Djinn thing is one of the things about In Nomine I find so fascinating. In real life, stalkers do love their "attuned"; they just don't understand that they're causing distress. I can see Cherubs falling when they discover that the close attention they pay to their attuned isn't appreciated, and perhaps even freaks them out. They try harder to protect them without realising that they are scaring their attuned. At some point, they're going to just wonder _why_ they're spending so much time and attention on such an unappreciative twerp, and start to demand some appreciation: "after all the flowers and chocolates, and fresh toilet paper, and the shopping done, how can you just ignore me!" After this, the Cherub starts to wonder why his friends are starting to wonder about him, and what's with the Dominican anyway... Just my take on the Cherub-Djinn continuum. I've only got one of the source books (Heaven and Hell), so apologies if this discussion appears in one of the others. Pak - ----- /= R o l e p l a y e r s o f t h e w o r l d . . . C o n q u e r ! =\ == Will roleplay for nothing. == \= Will GM for saki and promises of sushi. =/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 17:31:51 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Martin Subject: IN> Candidates for a Climb On Mon, 1 Nov 1999, Kim Foster wrote: > Just to throw things in reverse, which Princes seems like possible candiates > for Redemption? Or do any of them... Oh, lots. You beat me to the question, so I'll have to answer... Andrealphus: Probably not, though the word of Love is waiting for him, if he ever starts caring... Asmodeus: I'd have said "no way," but then I read "Election Day." and I got to thinking... The Game stands, in a sense, opposed to Freedom. Nobody has a word opposed to Freedom in Heaven, while Dom likes following rules, as a Seraph, he doesn't want to play with them. A Cherub would play with the rules, though, to help someone out. Asmodeus, if he went Cherub, might thus become the Archangel of Facilitation. (I don't like the Word, but what constitutes play with boundaries, Bright?) With the new Free Elections, Lilith gains great power over Hades. Her word is safe even though they worked, but Kronos would never tell someone that... Baal: If his valor overcomes his pride, maybe. Probably not till Armageddon, though, if ever. Otherwise, leadership of Hell's armies would fall on *gasp* Belial. Beleth: Going back to Blandine's arms? Afraid of Lucifer? Well, maybe. Other than locking Hell out of the Marches, no effect on the war. We humans sleep a *lot* better. Belial: Right. What forces that were left after Redemption would probably be blasted by Gabriel. Well, maybe not. The cruel ones would be burned away. He'd probably lose Superior status, though. Haagenti: Kobal would laugh. From Gremlin to Archangel! Cool! He'd go Ofanite. Ofanite of Temperance? Seems unlikely. Instead of *getting* more and more, he might start *doing* more and more... Ofanite of Frenzy, perhaps. Kobal: Everyone's favorite Demon Prince. Next to Lilith, this is the one most people *want* to redeem. Alas, Laughter isn't that angelic much anymore... but he may be a plant by God. After all, there is the matter of that special task God set him... Kronos: About as likely as Yves Falling. I leave the mechanics of this to the one who did the brilliant Fallen Yves writeup. Lilith: Everyone wants Lilith to Redeem... she's too cool to be demonic. Well, maybe not, but it's been done to death. Even in-game. Malphas: Unlikely at best. So much would be burned away in Redemption that only a normal Kyrio would be left. Nybbas: Mercurian of Communications, like in Dark Victory. Works for me. Saminga: If Azrael doesn't waste him, Gabriel will. Valefor: Assuming he isn't actually Janus, Valefor is ripe for Redemption as it is. He's less interested in the moral effects of his thefts, and more intereseted in performing more and more difficult thefts. Moving from place to place, unusual sense of style for a Calabite, *doesn't* like destroying things, thrives on being more and more Agile and Precise... he's Ofanim material all right. I could see him becoming Archangel of Daring, the Ofanite that is the patron of outrageous capers. He could become Kobal's direct foil, out-pranking the Master Prankster, or at least surviving said pranks. Vapula: He's theoretically a Habbalite, but do you see him inflicting emotions? Do you see him *experiencing* them? Not really. Is he punishing the weak? No! He wants *objective* knowledge that he can turn into shiny toys. He could go Elohite and nobody would even notice. "Vapula's an angel now!" "Somebody explain to the snotling what Habbalah are like..." He could even keep his word. Jean keeps the science under his wing, Vap gets more responsible. Personally, I think Valefor and Vapula (the "killer V's") are the most likely ones to Redeem. -- Michael Martin Be kind of random and beautifully senseless. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 01:36:36 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> Clones and... AI in IN From: Elizabeth McCoy > [Or get even more complex. Take the process called "brainwipe" which > erases everything but basic functionality (i.e., everything at the > instinct level, that you don't have to remember how to do), and basic > personality... Apply it to someone. Does he still have the same soul? i dunno, i'd be tempted to say that that technology just doesn't exist in a game where souls do. liam ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 21:15:26 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> Yves? From: Elizabeth McCoy > I don't know when the Michael we all love and admire and ogle was > added in. Fairly early, since I don't think I've ever seen a draft > which doesn't have him. i guess it was a fairly common sense addition seeing as michael pops up in just about any list of real-world angels and archangels liam ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 01:56:37 +0100 From: Pak Chan Subject: Re: IN> (Nicole Fluff) At 09:02 01/11/1999 -0800, jo wrote: > > > >>From: "Ben Glickler" >> >> >> > Actually, I'd say Dominic and the Judgies (ooo, there's a band name) >>are >> >>*twitch* >> > > >Hmm. Dunno. "Judge D." sounds a bit like a rapper's stage name. No. In this persona, he's dressed in a blue uniform, with a blue and gold face mask, with gold chain epaulettes and a big gold badge with his name on it..."Dredd". Fits him perfectly...judge, jury and executioner. Pak - ----- /= R o l e p l a y e r s o f t h e w o r l d . . . C o n q u e r ! =\ == Will roleplay for nothing. == \= Will GM for saki and promises of sushi. =/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 21:04:20 -0500 From: Kim Foster Subject: Re: IN> Candidates for a Climb At 05:31 PM 11/1/99 -0800, you wrote: >Lilith: Everyone wants Lilith to Redeem... she's too cool to be demonic. >Well, maybe not, but it's been done to death. Even in-game. This brings up something else I've wondered about. Lilith, while an interesting and intriguing character, has never struck me as particularly "cool". She tends to get white washed alot on the list. Her word sounds nice but its application isn't. Its always struck me as something closer to anarchy than freedom. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 19:16:20 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Candidates for a Climb >This brings up something else I've wondered about. Lilith, while an >interesting and intriguing character, has never struck me as particularly >"cool". She tends to get white washed alot on the list. Her word sounds nice >but its application isn't. Its always struck me as something closer to >anarchy than freedom. That's heavinly propaganda. She represents the freedom that those in Hell have from the plans of God (or at least that's what its supposed to be). It fits with her history well, and its a Word that Lucifer was definetly eager to give out to someone. It shows that he endorses free will, imagine if you will him giving a tour of hell to some people interested in an afterlife: Lucifer "I hope you enjoyed the tour of Shal-Mari, its one of the most popular parts of hell." Person 1 "I can see why, what's that large building over there?" indicates a rather non-neon building, well designed with souls and demons pouring in and out. Lucifer "Oh, that is the Guild Hall. Its where the Demon Princess of Freedom brokers her services, and the services of her daughters." Person 2 "Princess of Freedom?" Lucifer "Why of course. That's what hell is all about. Now if you'd follow me we're going to go visit The Bottomless pit" people on tour seem nervus, Lucifer laughs, "Don't worry, its just one of the best restaurents in hell." Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 21:18:02 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Falling Archangels (Yves) At 6:59 PM -0500 11/1/99, Ben Aldred wrote: >At 02:30 PM 11/1/99 -0600, you wrote: > >umm...what about Alaemon, the current Demon Prince of Secrets (Feast of > >Blades in the GM Pack)? > > >actually what they don't tell you is that Yves IS Alaemon. that's the big >secret >Ben Now *that* makes sense to me. [Alaemon] Mmm... library.... - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1387 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.