From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Mon Nov 8 08:28:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA30995 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 1999 08:28:25 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id IAA13643 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Mon, 8 Nov 1999 08:29:37 -0600 Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 08:29:37 -0600 Message-Id: <199911081429.IAA13643@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1396 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Monday, November 8 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1396 In this digest: Re: IN> Destiny? Re: IN> Tyger Tyger, Burning Bright.... Re: IN> Destiny? Re: IN> Tyger Tyger, Burning Bright.... Nitpicking (WAS Re: IN> The Final Battle (Was: Re: Pride IS a sin)) Re: IN> Tyger Tyger, Burning Bright.... Re: IN> Destiny? IN> Enjoy it, but don't destroy it. Re: IN> Look upon me, ye mighty, and DESPAIR Re: IN> Destiny? Re: IN> The Final Battle (Was: Re: Pride IS a sin) IN> Weep for your children, for tonight they are mine. IN> In Nomine San Francisco Re: IN> Tyger Tyger, Burning Bright.... Re: IN> Look upon me, ye mighty, and DESPAIR ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 00:48:09 -0600 From: Santiago Subject: Re: IN> Destiny? >Is a Bright destiny reached for selfish reasons still Bright and >still a destiny reached? Frex, If some Soldier of God in service to >Yves finds out his destiny and his fate, decides he doesn't like his >fate and doesn't want to go to hell, so with a primarily selfish >motivation he reaches his nice Bright Sparkly Destiny (tm). Does it >count? > >Azrael So what we have here is a case of the means justifying the ends. It's my view that it still counts, because all actions are really ultimately selfish (or else later deemed mistakes by the person doing the action), even if they help others. If you enjoy helping people and being nice to them, you do it because making other people happy makes you happy. Even if you sit down and carefully plan your actions, and determine what is the morally correct thing to do, and then do it, you're still doing it because doing what you feel is the morally correct action leaves you in a state you prefer to that resulting from not doing it--the negativeness of your feelings of guilt or your fear of being caught would outweigh the positive aspects of whatever you gained by pursuing a course you considered immoral. Any sentient being that consistently follows courses of action that do not benefit it, even in intangible ways, will soon be either quite unhappy or outright dead. (On a side note, I'm from the "Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, must be a duck." school of thought that holds which something which is externally indistinguishable from another thing is as good as the real thing, and thus motivations don't matter in the above case, as long as the destiny is fulfilled in the exact same way as it would have been without any foreknowledge of what it was, an outcome with an admittedly slim chance, given our tendency to second-guess ourselves and the nature of self-fulfilling prophecies. I tend to think that the people that'll disagree with the logic in the first paragraph are probably many of the same who claim an AI could never have Celestial forces, because it's not truly "alive" (whatever that means) or "has no soul".) - -- Santiago ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 23:52:59 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Tyger Tyger, Burning Bright.... >JORDI >Shedite Prince of Genocide [snip] Interesting decision, linked more to why he fell then his origional Word. I would generally think of Fallen Jordi as the DP of Savegery or Beasts, but consiering the scenerio you set Genocide is reasonable. >Lucifer didn't approach the insane Shedite. The Word of Genocide was >granted from afar. [snip] I've seen this a in DP write ups on web pages, and lots of variations of the Lucifer was freaked out by the newly Fallen very powerful demon. I've never liked it. Lucifer can if he wants give a demon, fallen superior or not, a terribly limited and weak Word that will become the focus of that demons being (as that's what Words seem to do). I'm sure he has a heft list of them for punishments. I'm also sure he could give Word that would make challenging him dissonant. Basicly when the only demon that'll ever scare Lucifer is the one that can also give out Words and match God's ability to intervene. Btw this is the only part of your write up about Jordi's Fall and acclimation to tell that I really don't like, and I'm just venting about other folk who've done it. >ALLIED: Malphas, Saminga >ASSOCIATED: Baal, Beleth, Belial, Kronos >HOSTILE: Andrealphus, Kobal, Lilith, Nybbas I would think Saminga and him would either get along or fight to the bitter end, I can see it going either way depending. Malphas and him would make a very effective and disturbing team, but I agree Malphas wouldn't want him around too long because of all the damage he could do (and if Jordi does ally with Saminga that gives Malphas another reason to hate him). Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 23:59:11 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Destiny? >Is a Bright destiny reached for selfish reasons still Bright and sttill a >destiny reached? I would say it couldn't be reached because Bright destiny's generally involve making selfless choices. Those who are doing things for selfish reasons tend not to make selfless choices. >Frex, If some Soldier of God in service to Yves finds out his destiny and >his fate, decides >he doesn't like his fate and doesn't want to go to hell, so with a >primarily selfish motivation >he reaches his nice Bright Sparkly Destiny (tm). Does it count? I still don't think he'd be able to reach it, since the attunements that tell you what someone's destiny/fate are just tell you that and not how to get there he'd probably not be able to reach it because he was being selfish. He can only assume a path, and those assumptions aren't going to be acurate because he's selfish not selfless. Loopholes into heaven probably don't exist, though if they do Caveatal would be sure to know. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 02:09:45 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Tyger Tyger, Burning Bright.... At 11:52 PM -0700 11/7/99, Tim Groth wrote: > >I've seen this a in DP write ups on web pages, and lots of variations of >the Lucifer was freaked out by the newly Fallen very powerful demon. Lucifer wasn't freaked out or scared. Lucifer didn't want entrenched Demon Princes to tear the freak apart before he settled in. Lucifer wanted to establish a cult of fear. And Lucifer wanted to establish early that this was a wild beast gone rabid. Easy as pie to do, just grant the Word a hundred yards back. - -- Eric Alfred Burns It was then I felt my heart break like a in-sabre@annotations.com fragile Scooby Snack upon the harsh teeth of http://www.annotations.com Reality -- and it's been broken ever since. http://www.annotations.com/~journal --Johnny Bravo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 02:14:55 -0500 From: Ehrbar Subject: Nitpicking (WAS Re: IN> The Final Battle (Was: Re: Pride IS a sin)) steelangel@cruzers.com wrote: > bichwa@telstra.easymail.com.au wrote: > > > > The 365 and 1/4 day year is actually known as the solar year, > > because it's the time it takes for the sun to return to a position. > > It's not a solely roman invention either - most civilisations with > > even a basic grasp of astrology used it, for example, the Sumerians, > > Babylonians, Mayans, Greeks, Aztecs, Chinese, etc. all used it, > > although not all of tehm got the 1/4 thing. > > I think you mean "Astronomy". (Oh great and puissant Demon > princess...that count for Nitpicking Essence?) Astrology and astronomy were the same thing in all those civilizations. The distinction between the two did not happen until the Scientific Revolution in Europe and its export elsewhere, so to make a distinction between them when referring to historical societies it to introduce an anachronism -- a Bad Thing. And *I* get Essence for *my* deflection of a nitpick -- one of my special Rites as the Demon of SciFi Novels. (Balseraph, of course -- you *need* a flexible mind to explain why there are no inconsistencies in, say, the Star Trek novels.) Steve, Demon of SciFi Novels. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 02:29:30 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: Re: IN> Tyger Tyger, Burning Bright.... As a threshhold question... so far we've seen, what, four fallen Archangels and two redeemed Demon Princes? Is anyone collecting these? I think they'd make a very nice addition to an IN website. We could call them "Ups and Downs", or some such... >JORDI >Shedite Prince of Genocide > >"The World is full. There *is* a solution." Heh. Obviously "genocide" is including "deliberate extinction", right? >And then the light burned, and he Fell to Earth, and down into Hell >itself. His viewpoint was now Monomaniacal. There *was* no balance. >There was just Darwin. God himself had stepped aside for Survival of >the Fittest. The only way to win was to wipe out all your opponents >-- to fill *all* the ecological niches. That seems... close, but a little bit off. Sounds more like a Habbalite than a Shedite. I think it's more like, mmmm, every species for itself. A philosophy similar to that other fallen Kyrio, Malphas, but projected on a different set of groups. >Lucifer didn't approach the insane Shedite. The Word of Genocide was >granted from afar. Naw. Lucifer's strong enough to walk beside the mad new Shed, I think. IMO Jordi is one of the more powerful AAs, but half a step down from (say) Michael. And besides... Lucifer doesn't *fight*. He's the ultimate Bal. He just strolled up to Jordi and started chatting, I'm sure. >Jordi is the consummate Shedite. He's bitter, wanting nothing more >than to worm into the good works of others and rot them from within. >When everything is dead, he'll satisfied. Actually, just as he was a rather savage and inhuman Kyrio, I think he'll be a rather savage and inhuman Shed. "Destroy the Other" is his motto. Like Magog, he's about atrocity more than subversion. >Novalis's Angel of Ecology has taken on as much of the responsibility >for the web of life as it can. It is strongly possible it will be >promoted into the Archangel of the Biosphere -- if so, its Elohite >calm will be a marked departure from the passionate, Fallen Archangel >of Animals. Ha. I like it. >Saminga momentarily resented the loss of the Word of Genocide (which >had been under his domain though its holder was destroyed), but >Jordi's love of nihilistic destruction and the elimination of whole >species are just way too darn *cool* for Saminga to stay mad for >long. I'll just register a note of disagreement here. Saminga is too damn dumb to appreciate the help that Jordi can give him. Everything we know about him suggests that he's jealous, territorial and paranoid even by Hell's high standards. I don't think coolness is going to win too many points when a big piece of his Word is being poached out from under him, and I think he's going to go all-out to kill the new Prince. (which is fine, IMO. My money is on Jordi) >Beleth can appreciate the violence and horror that Jordi >spreads. Kronos approves of the Fate Jordi represents. And Asmodeus >finds Jordi easy to control. Furfur loves him, just loves him. Nothing is more hardcore than extermination. Mammon, Fleurity and Alaemon don't much care. Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 23:32:50 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Destiny? >From: Tim Groth >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > > >Is a Bright destiny reached for selfish reasons still Bright and sttill a > >destiny reached? >I would say it couldn't be reached because Bright destiny's generally >involve making selfless choices. Those who are doing things for selfish >reasons tend not to make selfless choices. I'm not sure. I wonder if Yves' angels with the Divine destiny attunement: a) Can never use it on themselves b) Have a strong taboo against ever directly telling anyone else what they read from them ... because otherwise, paradoxically (by this argument), no-one who had ever seen their own Destiny could actually fulfil it. Similarly I wonder if, if you see one Fate and work really hard to avoid that (for selfish reasons, of course), whether you might still manage to hit another one inadvertently if you keep acting in the same nasty way. jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 01:15:04 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Martin Subject: IN> Enjoy it, but don't destroy it. We haven't been Redeeming enough Princes. To help remedy this... HAAGENTI Archangel of Gusto "The world is full of marvelous things, and you should experience them all." Just don't stand too close, or you might suddenly be dancing with a wheel. (Whee! Dancing!) Haagenti, even more than Belial, was the quintessential Calabite. Belial existed only to destroy, but Haagenti embodied destruction and, more importantly, the impulse to destroy. Now he is the quintessential Ofanite, constantly on the move. Nobody really knows why Haagenti Redeemed, or how. It's assumed that Janus was the one who Redeemed him, since it was he who presented the new Ofanite to the Seraphim Council. Actually getting Haagenti to stay fairly still for that long was a challenge in itself; from the instant he saw Heaven, he wanted to go everywhere and do everything. This is standard behavior for an Ofanite, but Haagenti just couldn't stop. He has always wanted everything, and his Redemption appears to have been a realization that one could "have" everything without having it for himself. That way, everyone could have everything. It was this outlook that prompted the Seraphim Council to grant him the Word of Gusto. Shortly after this he was elevated to Archangelic status. The effects of his leaving in Hell were surprisingly small. His demons went to work for the other Shal-Mari princes, or they turned to his old friends Nybbas and Saminga. Furfur also accepted a few of his nastier Servitors. DISSONANCE - ---------- Gusto is the enjoyment of experience, and the seeking of new experiences to enjoy. His Servitors glide through population centers, bolstering the perception of humanity as they go. It's dissonant for these angels to go more than three days without introducing a human to an enjoyable new experience, or a new appreciation of a common experience. (In Heaven, they travel amongst the blessed souls.) CHOIR ATTUNEMENTS - ----------------- Seraphim With the harmony of the Symphony behind them, these agents of Truth can remove the Jaded Discord or Disadvantage from their beneficiaries, lasting for a nomber of days equal to the check digit of the angel's resonance roll. Cherubim Haagenti's Cherubim can spot those who need their help the most from miles away. Not only do they know the direction to the closest Jaded human, but their resonance automatically succeeds, with a check digit of 6, toward Jaded subjects! Ofanim Haagenti's Ofanim have a special Rite. They gain 1 Essence if they provoke or participate in a frenetic, exciting event enjoyed by all involved... such as spontaneous breakdancing or a freestyle skateboard competition. Elohim The Powers of Gusto can find pleasurable aspects of nearly any activity. With a successful resonance roll, they can point out some interesting facet of any task that a human is performing. This will cause the human to enjoy his task, and will grant a +1 on the check digit if the roll is successful. Malakim Haagenti's Malakim are incredible trainers. When preparing humans for an activity that they have never done before, but find exciting, these Malakim can teach that skill as if they had it at level 6. Kyriotates When these Dominations take over a host, the host remembers what has happened. If the Kyriotate did not take dissonance from leaving, the host will remember the whole thing as tremendously exciting. If the Kyriotate performed any truly significant acts in the host, that host will gain a character point towards one of the skills the Kyriotate used. Mercurians The Mercurians of Gusto are the ultimate party angels. When they invoke their resonance on a human, they not only know what that human likes to do, if they get a check digit of 5 or 6, they will determine some activity that the human would enjoy, but has never actually tried. SERVITOR ATTUNEMENTS - -------------------- Sense of Adventure The angel can convince a human to try out any new exciting activity. However, if this new "adventure" results in the human being seriously hurt, the angel will take a note of dissonance! DISTINCTIONS - ------------ Vassal of Gusto The angel can identify any person that is enjoying what he is doing within 40 yards times the angel's Celestial Forces. Friend They're not Friends Of anything in particular, they're just Friends. People who are friends with these angels gain a deeper appreciation of all their other friendships, and become more sensitive (+1 to Perception on all relevant rolls). Master of Excitement The angel can make any activity seem exciting and adventurous for 1d hours, even if it's something like alphabetizing files. RELATIONS - --------- Haagenti is new in Heaven, and because of this, Dominic doesn't trust him yet. Laurence and David both think that he's too flighty to be a proper Archangel (though he's not as bad as Novalis) but David respects how he makes people enjoy being around each other. Eli loves him -- he embodies that which humanity has and which he thinks the angels have lost. Haagenti returns this affection, but not quite as strongly. He also gets along very well with the other Ofanim -- he embodies action, which is inherent in all of their natures. Novalis and Blandine both kind of like him, since his Word reflects aspects of theirs. He's still young, and his Redemption has left him sufficiently "innocent" that he is hostile to no one. Allied: Janus, Gabriel (Janus and Eli are Allied with him) Associated: Novalis, David, Eli (Novalis, Bladine and Gabriel are Associated with him) Hostile: none (Dominic and Laurence are hostile to him) BASIC RITES - ----------- * Be involved in an experience that lets you gain a character point. * Spend an hour having others enjoy your company. * Introduce a human to a new experience. CHANCE OF INVOCATION: 1 INVOCATION MODIFIERS +1 A travelogue +2 A recreational resort +3 A human enjoying an exciting activity +4 Ten humans enjoying an exciting activity +5 Ten humans enjoying an ordinarily dull activity +6 Some completely new experience -- Michael Martin Be kind of random and beautifully senseless. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 02:51:26 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Look upon me, ye mighty, and DESPAIR *g* Thanks for all the comments! I'm glad I'm not the only one with a soft spot for dark and angsty ;) >From: Kim Foster >SHe gets kinda shorted as a Superior and it was nice to >see that wasn't the case her. I dunno. We know a lot about her compared with superiors like Janus & Jordi (frex). What I think gets /seriously/ shorted (*cough* or at least up until now) is any real advice to GMs on how to run scenes in dreamscapes or the near Marches. Since a lot of Blandine's attunements don't work anywhere else, this just makes life difficult for PCs. It's like they have this great expertise, but it almost never comes up in games (in my experience). Especially since any celestial can get to the Marches whenever it likes, they could really get much more widely used than I think they usually do. Much better place for adventuring than Heaven or Hell, as well! (IMO) (It's true for Beleth too, but her demons seem less totally focussed on the ethereal.) >From: Whistling in the Dark >the Angels have already lost when this >happens, haven't they? You could read it that way (ie. I think so, but I'm a closet romantic ;) ). It's as if the chicken's head has been cut off but the body is still running around, and hasn't realised that it is dead yet. The real prob. the angels would have is that Blandine was the only one who had much expertise in the Marches. New angels can be created and taught Songs of Dreams, but they'll be battling celestials for whom the Marches are home turf, and who have hundreds of years of experience at dream shaping. Could try to recruit 'friendly' ethereals to help, but most of those are scared or hateful toward the angels. It might actually turn out that the other angels who are most likely to have much Marches experience are some of Laurence's older servitors, who were involved in the Purity crusade. Admittedly, they are more used to turfing ethereals out of dreamscapes than protecting human dreams, but if they are all that stands between Hell's domination of the human subconscious... Might be interesting to have PCs as servitors of Dream who were off on some mission into the Far Marches, and come back to find that all this happened whilst they were away. This leaves them as pretty much the only angels in heaven with Dream Walking and the knowledge of how to use it. Perhaps they'd have to train strike teams -- perhaps mainly Kyrios to start with, as they tend to have higher Will than others, which is what you need for dream shaping. >From: Douglas Muir > >Of course, this stretches heaven's resources that much thinner, yes. > Very much so, I'd think. I can't really imagine what it would be like if all of humanity was terrified of going to sleep -- something they still need to spend about a third of their time doing. I can imagine getting really obsessed by it. jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 12:47:22 +0000 (GMT) From: Warsinger Subject: Re: IN> Destiny? On Sun, 7 Nov 1999, Jo Hart wrote: > >From: Tim Groth > >Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com > > > > >Is a Bright destiny reached for selfish reasons still Bright and sttill a > > >destiny reached? > >I would say it couldn't be reached because Bright destiny's generally > >involve making selfless choices. Those who are doing things for selfish > >reasons tend not to make selfless choices. Given the lack of suggestions for what potential Destinies are actually like this question is quite difficult to answer. But if Destiny is defined as the best thing an individual could do from the point of view of the Symphony, which was the definition I rem, then I see no reason why not. Details in individual Destinies however may make this not generally possible. > > I'm not sure. I wonder if Yves' angels with the Divine destiny attunement: > > a) Can never use it on themselves > b) Have a strong taboo against ever directly telling anyone else what they > read from them > > ... because otherwise, paradoxically (by this argument), no-one who had ever > seen their own Destiny could actually fulfil it. > > > Similarly I wonder if, if you see one Fate and work really hard to avoid > that (for selfish reasons, of course), whether you might still manage to hit > another one inadvertently if you keep acting in the same nasty way. > One Destiny, One Fate (nice slogan :) ) was how I rem this one too. As for the argument against it which boils down to saying I don't the idea of people sneaking into Heaven by being a smart-ass (probably because they play with people similiar to some people I know :) ), there are already 2 ways to get into Heaven as a Soldier of Hell, without having reached your Destiny. So it can already be done. Warsinger Cute and fluffy....(with claws) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 12:58:07 +0000 (GMT) From: Warsinger Subject: Re: IN> The Final Battle (Was: Re: Pride IS a sin) On Mon, 8 Nov 1999, Steel Angel wrote: > bichwa@telstra.easymail.com.au wrote: > > > (Kris hugs Suetonius - The Twelve Caesars, which isn't just tabloid filth) > > > > The 365 and 1/4 day year is actually known as the solar year, because it's the time it takes for the sun to return to a position. It's not a solely roman invention either - most civilisations with even a basic grasp of astrology used it, for example, the Sumerians, Babylonians, Mayans, Greeks, Aztecs, Chinese, etc. all used it, although not all of tehm got the 1/4 thing. > > I think you mean "Astronomy". (Oh great and puissant Demon princess...that count for Nitpicking Essence?) > Also, for Sodom, it wasn't just animals and other men...the people there wanted to sleep with the pack of -angels- that visited Lot. Also, Lot -did- offer his daughters to a few of them (will find chapter and verse). > > - Abracax: Shedite of Riots Nope, Astrology - because that was what they were studying. The science of Astronomy grew out of it much later - but their reason for studying the stars was Astrology. All early so-called Astronomers were Astrologists. Warsinger Cute and fluffy....(with claws) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 06:10:36 -0700 From: EDG Subject: IN> Weep for your children, for tonight they are mine. Christopher, Demon Prince of Corruption "Let the children have their fun." Christopher still smiles. That much can be said; the smile has never left his face but for a moment, when he realized that the children of the world were unredeemable, and left Heaven. But his smile is now not a happy one; his glee is not at seeing children at play, but rather the malicious joy of watching a child smoke his first cigarette. His sack no longer bulges with toys and candies; now it bulges with heroin needles and illicit weapons. In his mind, the children had their chance. They didn't live up to the trust he put in them. And now they'll work for him, instead of him working for them. As the Archangel of Children, and as a Cherub, Christopher felt more and more the urge to shepherd children, to make sure that none of them came to harm. He /was/, after all, the Guardian of Innocence, and the number of truly innocent children grew less every day. As that number dwindled, the archangel grew more and more disconsolate, and it was on that inevitable day, the day when one of his personal charges became hooked on heroin, that something in him finally snapped. The once-bright angel fled Heaven, his Cathedral darkening as the angels of Children rushed to evacuate the children's souls, and went to Hell, where Lucifer waited. The discussion they had was one which is the subject of many discussions even to this day, but all anybody knows is that when they emerged from the Lightbringer's chambers, Hell had a new Demon Prince, holder of one of the most venerated of abandoned Words - that of Corruption. Christopher now looks upon the world with disdain. If the children want to be corrupted so badly, his philosophy now runs, let them be corrupted. He'll even help them along the way. His only emotion now, if he could be said to have any at all, is malice; the attempts of the parents to keep their children pure - with the V-chip, explicit-lyrics warnings, plastic bags on objectionable reading, and so forth - are met with open contempt and, sometimes, a burst of mocking laughter. An interesting side note is that though many of the devout angels of Children have been approached by the Seraphim Council regarding the assignment of the Word of Children, each has refused, stating that they're waiting for their Archangel to return. DISSONANCE - ---------- Christopher's demons may not hinder the corruption of a child. They also must actively introduce at least one element of corruption into a child's life every day. Finally, it is still dissonant for a demon of Corruption to directly physically harm a child, although indirect harm, and mental anguish, are perfectly acceptable. (For these purposes, "child" is defined as someone who has not reached his or her legal majority in the relevant culture.) CHOIR ATTUNEMENTS - ----------------- BALSERAPHS Balseraphs of Corruption may, a number of times per day equal to their Ethereal Forces, use their resonance to convince a child /or his or her parents/ that a corrupting influence is "good for them". This use of the resonance automatically succeeds, though the roll should still be made to get the check digit. DJINN With a successful use of their resonance, Christopher's Djinn can determine what elements of corruption their target is being exposed to for the duration of the resonance, and - with a second successful resonance roll - may multiply the effectiveness of any one influence by the check digit of the second roll. This may only be done once per target per resonance, and failing the second roll does not negate the link - but it does affect the ability of the Djinn to use his resonance! CALABIM A Calabite of Corruption can destroy illusions. By spending Essence equal to the victim's Will, and making a Will roll, the Calabite may dispel a single innocent belief or delusion ("Santa Claus is real", "the boss will give me a 20% raise" - anything that "reasonable" people know isn't true) for a number of hours equal to the check digit. After the duration is up, the target must make a Will roll to reassert the belief, or the effect is permanent (although if proof is later presented to the target that the belief is true, the Calabite will know, and must either dispel the belief again or take a point of dissonance). The Essence must be spent before the roll is made, and does not affect either the target number or the check digit! This power /does/ work against the Balseraph resonance, but does not work against actual illusions (created by Songs etc.), and does not work on anyone whose Will is greater than that of the Calabite. HABBALAH Corruption's Punishers have added a new emotion to their repertoire: Calm. A Habbalite of Corruption can use their resonance to induce a complacent, "everything's all right" feeling in their victims - until the resonance ends, at which point they experience a sudden rush of extreme panic, in proportion to the check digit. When this emotion is inflicted upon someone who's doing something they're not supposed to be doing, or upon the nervous parents of a child, the check digit of the successful roll is doubled (and so is the panic!). LILIM Christopher's Lilim are corruptors extraordinaire - better, perhaps, than even his Shedim. If, having fulfilled her part of the bargain, a Lilim of Corruption asks her target to do something that he's not supposed to do, the target may not outright refuse, and the damage incurred is twice normal if he fails to perform his duty. ("Something that he's not supposed to do" includes violating dissonance conditions!) SHEDIM Shedim are corruptors supreme, and Christopher's Shedim are even more so. Their mere presence in a host causes the person to begin corrupting himself; they don't suffer dissonance if they fail to actively compel a host to do something corruptive (though it's still fun!). IMPUDITES Impudites, as a general rule, like people too much to serve Corruption. There are, however, the sadistic few, and Christopher has an attunement for them. Impudites of Corruption can roll Will to convince someone to do something that they'd never normally do - and then get Essence from them, equal to the check digit or the target's current Essence, when they do it! Christopher's Takers are extremely rare - there are more male Lilim than Impudites of Corruption. SERVITOR ATTUNEMENTS - -------------------- PEER PRESSURE This attunement allows the user, with the expenditure of Essence equal to the target's Will and a successful Will roll, to cause the target to do any one thing the user desires, by convincing him that "everyone else is doing it". The effects last for a number of hours equal to the check digit of the will roll; the target may resist by rolling Perception, a successful check digit subtracting from the number of hours and a failed check digit adding to it! DEATH BY CHOCOLATE Named by a servitor of Haagenti who happened to see the attunement in action, Death By Chocolate allows a demon of Corruption to cause his victims to fail to see the negative consequences of an act, at a rate of 2 Essence per target affected. A victim may choose to make a Perception roll to see the consequences anyway; failing this roll doubles the negative effects. DISTINCTIONS - ------------ KNIGHT OF THE LOSS OF INNOCENCE A Knight of the Loss of Innocence can use Death By Chocolate without spending Essence; instead, the maximum number of victims is the Knight's total Forces. CAPTAIN OF CORRUPTION Demons of this rank can tell what single action would most corrupt someone. BARON OF THE FALLEN A may, by spending Essence equal to the target's current dissonance, force the target to reroll a dissonance roll he just made, and may raise the effective dissonance for the roll (though not the target's actual dissonance) by spending 1 Essence per dissonance. No more than 3 Essence may be spent to increase the difficulty of the roll, however. RELATIONS - --------- Since Falling, Christopher has built up his relations with Asmodeus and Kronos, who are most interested in his ability to draw humans and celestials alike closer to their Fates, as well as Andrealphus and Haagenti, the two others most concerned with corrupting the world. He still hates Beleth - nightmares might warn people off the dangerous activities he promotes - and Kobal always seems to have something up his sleeve to aggravate Christopher's plans. Allied: Asmodeus, Kronos (Asmodeus and Kronos are Allied to Christopher) Associated: Andrealphus, Haagenti (Andrealphus, Haagenti, and Kobal are Associated with Christopher) Neutral: Everyone else, except... Hostile: Beleth, Kobal (Beleth is Hostile to Christopher) BASIC RITES - ----------- - - Convince someone to do something illicit without using supernatural means - - Cause a child to lose innocence with her parents' permission (2 Essence) - - Create a new fad of "immoral" activities (3 Essence) CHANCE OF INVOCATION: 2 INVOCATION MODIFIERS - -------------------- +1: Something illegal, immoral, and/or fattening +2: A pornographic magazine within easy reach of a child +3: A pornographic magazine in the hands of a child (+2 and +3 are not cumulative) +4: Five children, all smoking +5: Three Santas at the same shopping mall +6: Child pornography +8: A gang, complete with weapons and battle scars, composed entirely of children - ----- Sorry, Tim, but I thought the Word was far too appropriate not to use. :) - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 08:21:07 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> In Nomine San Francisco >>>Very interesting -- I like San Francisco, though if you ever get a chance to write up some of SF's more significant Word-bound a la your New York writeup, that'd be seriously cool.<<< I have written them up, I just haven't had a chance to HTMLize them yet. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 09:11:55 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Tyger Tyger, Burning Bright.... At 2:29 AM -0400 11/8/99, Douglas Muir wrote: >As a threshhold question... so far we've seen, what, four fallen Archangels >and two redeemed Demon Princes? > >Is anyone collecting these? I think they'd make a very nice addition to an >IN website. We could call them "Ups and Downs", or some such... > I agree. We could do an IN Heresy Net.Book until (if) the real one comes out. > > >JORDI > >Shedite Prince of Genocide > > > >"The World is full. There *is* a solution." > >Heh. > >Obviously "genocide" is including "deliberate extinction", right? > Absolutely. > > >And then the light burned, and he Fell to Earth, and down into Hell > >itself. His viewpoint was now Monomaniacal. There *was* no balance. > >There was just Darwin. God himself had stepped aside for Survival of > >the Fittest. The only way to win was to wipe out all your opponents > >-- to fill *all* the ecological niches. > >That seems... close, but a little bit off. Sounds more like a Habbalite >than a Shedite. More like no one was there to cure Jordi's Discords after Fall.... However, Monomaniacal viewpoint versus Diversified Viewpoints is the driving conflict between Kyriotates and Shedim. I'm not disagreeing, just adding grist for the mill. >I think it's more like, mmmm, every species for itself. A philosophy >similar to that other fallen Kyrio, Malphas, but projected on a different >set of groups. > Agreed. > >Lucifer didn't approach the insane Shedite. The Word of Genocide was > >granted from afar. > >Naw. Lucifer's strong enough to walk beside the mad new Shed, I think. >IMO Jordi is one of the more powerful AAs, but half a step down from (say) >Michael. And besides... Lucifer doesn't *fight*. He's the ultimate Bal. >He just strolled up to Jordi and started chatting, I'm sure. I said before I was going for Lucifer doing a psych thing here, but I'm mellow, man. If it works better that Lucifer walked up to Jordi, so be it. > >Saminga momentarily resented the loss of the Word of Genocide (which > >had been under his domain though its holder was destroyed), but > >Jordi's love of nihilistic destruction and the elimination of whole > >species are just way too darn *cool* for Saminga to stay mad for > >long. > >I'll just register a note of disagreement here. Saminga is too damn dumb >to appreciate the help that Jordi can give him. Everything we know about >him suggests that he's jealous, territorial and paranoid even by Hell's >high standards. True, but he's also stupid. A *smart* Demon Prince -- or even one with more cunning than Saminga -- might say "this upstart is out to consume my Word faster than Haagenti consumed Sloth." But I see Saminga saying "hey -- Genocide was mind yo-- hey, did you just wipe out the Little Pine Weasel? *Cool!*" > >Beleth can appreciate the violence and horror that Jordi > >spreads. Kronos approves of the Fate Jordi represents. And Asmodeus > >finds Jordi easy to control. > >Furfur loves him, just loves him. Nothing is more hardcore than >extermination. Mammon, Fleurity and Alaemon don't much care. Actually, so long as Alaemon first knows the secrets of the wiped out bits, he doesn't care. If he doesn't, I suspect he'll be hostile to Jordi the same as he's hostile to Saminga. Dead men tell no tales. - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 09:24:14 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Look upon me, ye mighty, and DESPAIR Kim Foster wrote: > She gets kinda shorted as a Superior and it was nice to > see that wasn't the case here. Nice work! In her write-up in the main book, it says that the other Superiors (grudgingly?) admit that she does the most actual good for humanity; it is appropriate that her Fall would be a huge disaster for us. I wonder what the mundane explanation would be for why all dreams have gone sour? Probably, the scientists would be busy looking for an undiscovered prion or pollutant. I'd guess that that leftover Angel of Hope would be on a fast track to Superior status, and, as was said earlier, Zadkiel's stock would be rising rapidly. The only criticism I have is that I think there would be more orphans of Dreams, who didn't follow Blandine down to Hell. Earl ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1396 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.