From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Tue Nov 9 16:53:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA32636 for ; Tue, 9 Nov 1999 16:53:53 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id QAA02614 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Tue, 9 Nov 1999 16:53:14 -0600 Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 16:53:14 -0600 Message-Id: <199911092253.QAA02614@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1400 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Tuesday, November 9 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1400 In this digest: Re: IN> Destiny? Re: IN> Ruggedized Calabim Re: IN> Ruggedized Calabim Re: Re: IN> Changing Choirs Re: IN> New Malakim IN> Fallen/Redeemed Superiors. Re: IN> Ruggedized Calabim Re: IN> Fallen/Redeemed Superiors. Re: IN> Destiny? Re: IN> Destiny? Re: IN> Cry Havoc! IN> Un-s-u-b-b-i-n-g Re: IN> Destiny? Re: IN> Cry Havoc! IN> Purgatory( was: Destiny?) Re: IN> Fallen/Redeemed Superiors. IN> God is Love Re: IN> Cry Havoc! IN> Fear...for your fear will keep you ready Re: IN> Vessels Re: IN> New Malakim Re: IN> Changing Choirs Re: IN> Ruggedized Calabim Re: IN> Destiny? Re: IN> Fear...for your fear will keep you ready Re: IN> Destiny? IN> The Antichrist, Cults and other questions Re: IN> God is Love ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 10:32:59 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: Re: IN> Destiny? > Does hne go to heaven? Do people who achieve their Fates necessarily go to Hell, and do those who achieve their Destinies necessarily go to Heaven? If someone has a fairly lackluster Destiny, or a fairly harmless Fate, they won't be all that good/evil. > Don't ask how he found out, that isn't important. Perhaps he was in a library during > a storm, accidentally stumbled across the Book of All Knowledge (which Yves had put > down and can't remember where) and read it. > > Azrael Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 09:33:25 -0800 (PST) From: The Alien Subject: Re: IN> Ruggedized Calabim From the FAQ... So I know Malakim don't usually get trauma when their vessels are destroyed, seeing as how they're so used to it....but what about brand-new Malakim? It doesn't say, specifically, in the book that the reason they are immune to trauma is because they suffered it so many times. It just says they are innured to death from having suffered it so often. So, the trauma avoidance is part of their resonance, even for new Malakim. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 12:39:08 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Ruggedized Calabim At 12:02 -0500 11/9/99, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Here's a cheery thought: I gather that Malakim are immune to >Trauma simply because they've been through it so much, they've >built up a resistance, not because of any resistance built into >their design to start with. In that case, couldn't Baal, say, >develop a battle-hardened cadre of, say, Calabim who are immune >to Trauma for the same reason? The original book implies this to some extent, but I believe canon is that even "new" Malakim have this advantage, nor can other Choirs (or Bands) acquire it by sufficient deaths. Certainly this is the way it's defined in GURPS In Nomine -- it's a separate advantage, which is part of the Malakite Choir template and not otherwise obtainable. I view it as more of a macho Malakite thing -- "It's only a death-wound...." Or you can see it as being that Malakim are so focused on the War, and so little focused on the corporeal (unlike the other Choirs, who were apparently created with corporeal service in mind), that death simply doesn't faze them. Their Forces don't drift about aimlessly after death, but snap straight home, recoalesce, and start looking for a weapon and a vessel to continue the fight with. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 12:46:52 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: Re: IN> Changing Choirs At 12:04 -0500 11/9/99, Jo Hart wrote: >But what if, very very rarely, a demon was able to spontaneously redeem, >without the intervention of an archangel. Maybe, in a case like that, the >new angel might actually be a Malakite... Interesting notion.... I'd say it was only likely to happen if the demon was *so* repelled by his own nature that even becoming the untwisted reflection of his former Band would disgust him. This would be an unusual sort of redemption mindset, I think, but not completely impossible. One case I could see this happening, maybe, is where a demon was so filled with self-loathing that he was actively suicidal, and went looking for the nearest Malakite to kill him. Add in a Divine Intervention on the blackwing's attack, and.... - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 12:48:12 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> New Malakim At 11:12 -0500 11/9/99, Amo Nympham wrote: >when did the last angel to change into a Malakim transform? According to canon, I think it was right after the Rebellion started. > is it still >possible for an angel to undergo such transformation? Not in canon, as far as I know. > what would lead to >such a fundamental transposition of your nature? Moral outrage + Divine Intervention. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 10:49:34 -0700 From: "Ben Glickler" Subject: IN> Fallen/Redeemed Superiors. Welp, we've got Yves, Novalis, Blandine, Jordi, Christopher, and Michael for Fallen Superiors. We've got Malphas, Asmodeus, and Haagenti for Redeemed Superiors. Anyone wanna try their hands at more Redeeming bad guys? Especially if they're as cool as the new Archangel of Gusto... ;) Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 12:59:56 -0500 (EST) From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: Re: IN> Ruggedized Calabim Earl Wajenberg wrote: > >Here's a cheery thought: I gather that Malakim are immune to >Trauma simply because they've been through it so much, they've >built up a resistance, not because of any resistance built into >their design to start with. In that case, couldn't Baal, say, >develop a battle-hardened cadre of, say, Calabim who are immune >to Trauma for the same reason? IMC, Trauma Resistance was a three-point Resource. It meant that the celestial who had it had gotten used to losing Vessels. All Malakim started with it automatically, but any character could buy it at character creation. It was relatively uncommon among demons, though -- Demon Princes generally didn't tolerate servitors who kept getting killed. Vessels were expensive to make, and incompetent servitors cheap to destroy. Neel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 13:04:44 -0500 From: Ben Aldred Subject: Re: IN> Fallen/Redeemed Superiors. I had a really great writeup of Beleth Archangel of Fear when Eudora crashed before I could send it. I am going to rewrite it though. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 13:00:18 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Destiny? At 12:32 -0500 11/9/99, Ben Glickler wrote: >> Does hne go to heaven? > >Do people who achieve their Fates necessarily go to Hell, and do those who >achieve their Destinies necessarily go to Heaven? If someone has a fairly >lackluster Destiny, or a fairly harmless Fate, they won't be all that >good/evil. I think the answer is yes, though a lot of the Fate/Destiny stuff is up to the GM. I believe the basic premise here is that Destiny is the best you could possibly do, and Fate is the worst. If you strive to do your best, that's all Heaven can ask, even if it isn't much. (Note that children go to Heaven, though they're hardly models of selflessness -- I think it's more that they simply don't have the opportunity to make informed moral choices, so they get the benefit of the doubt.) If you constantly pursue your own good, regardless of your affect on others, you'll reach your Fate. It may be that you won't actually hurt others very much, but it's the intent that seems to matter. Personally, I think most Destinies and Fates should be fairly significant; many people achieve neither, and either get recycled for another try, or dissipate. This puts a somewhat Eastern spin on the IN theology, which I happen to like, but it does break the Christian core of IN a bit more. If you follow the general Christian model, you have the dilemma of what to do with the vast middle of the bell curve on the selfless/selfish axis; this seems to be where the notion of Purgatory came from. But Purgatory doesn't exist in IN canon. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 13:00:18 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Destiny? At 12:32 -0500 11/9/99, Ben Glickler wrote: >> Does hne go to heaven? > >Do people who achieve their Fates necessarily go to Hell, and do those who >achieve their Destinies necessarily go to Heaven? If someone has a fairly >lackluster Destiny, or a fairly harmless Fate, they won't be all that >good/evil. I think the answer is yes, though a lot of the Fate/Destiny stuff is up to the GM. I believe the basic premise here is that Destiny is the best you could possibly do, and Fate is the worst. If you strive to do your best, that's all Heaven can ask, even if it isn't much. (Note that children go to Heaven, though they're hardly models of selflessness -- I think it's more that they simply don't have the opportunity to make informed moral choices, so they get the benefit of the doubt.) If you constantly pursue your own good, regardless of your affect on others, you'll reach your Fate. It may be that you won't actually hurt others very much, but it's the intent that seems to matter. Personally, I think most Destinies and Fates should be fairly significant; many people achieve neither, and either get recycled for another try, or dissipate. This puts a somewhat Eastern spin on the IN theology, which I happen to like, but it does break the Christian core of IN a bit more. If you follow the general Christian model, you have the dilemma of what to do with the vast middle of the bell curve on the selfless/selfish axis; this seems to be where the notion of Purgatory came from. But Purgatory doesn't exist in IN canon. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 11:20:03 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Cry Havoc! >Regarding Laurence as incompetent: > > This isn't verbatim, but it is drawn from one of the books. >Laurence tends to expect something too close to perfection. He doesn't >realize that angels, even his angels, can be tempted, can be corrupted, >can make mistakes. And the other side fights very dirty. So Laurence, in >some ways, is an idealist. > > Oddly, Laurence is on very good terms with Dominic, who is >unquestionably the angel most aware of how fallible angels are. I'd imagine Dominic is refreshed by the idealism he sees in the young Archangel, remembering time when he had the luxury of believing angels were not corruptable. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 10:18:40 PST From: "Du Dawei" Subject: IN> Un-s-u-b-b-i-n-g Could someone remind me how to UN-S-WORD? I fear for using the word in the body lest Elizabeth hammer me. Thanks. Dave ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 13:21:04 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Destiny? Walter Milliken wrote: > If you follow the general Christian model, you have the dilemma of > what to do with the vast middle of the bell curve on the selfless/ > selfish axis; this seems to be where the notion of Purgatory came > from. But Purgatory doesn't exist in IN canon. Yes, the Christian novelist and essayist Charles Williams once remarked that Purgatory was put into the doctrines simply because it seems clear that, when most people die, they are not good enough for Heaven or bad enough for Hell. In the Divine Comedy, Dante also introduced another destination. There's a wide plain outside the gates of his Inferno, where crowds of the lukewarm forever chase after blank banners. If you wanted to populate the Marches with something more substantial than imaginary beings and transient dreamers, here's an obvious population of candidates. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 13:29:23 -0500 (EST) From: Neel Krishnaswami Subject: Re: IN> Cry Havoc! >From: Earl Wajenberg > >On Laurence compared to Michael, and Michael's grudges: Is there a grudge? Laurence is listed as Allied to Michael, and Michael is as closely associated with Laurence as he is with David. I think it's more likely that Michael thinks that Laurence turns to him for help when he really doesn't need it. After all, God chose Laurence as captain of the Host, and obviously He wouldn't have done that if Laurence couldn't hack it. So when Laurence comes to Michael and says, "I have a problem. Will you fix it for me?" he's betraying a dangerous lack of self-confidence and trust in the judgement of God. Of course he'll help the kid out, but if Laurence had wisely used the time spent coming to Michael for help he wouldn't have needed Michael to save him in the first place. (Note that Michael's dissonance condition basically boils down to, "Never give up, ever.") To an outside observer this dynamic might look like carping, but in Michael's head it's probably more like a parent bird pushing a fledgling out of the nest -- an angel will never learn to fly unless he tries using its wings. Neel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 13:29:25 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Purgatory( was: Destiny?) By the way, point of information: Purgatory, in the religions that have it, is not a place where you get judged or a place where you can end up instead of heaven or hell. It is a place of purification. (Maybe Uriel got put in charge of Purgatory, which is tucked away in the Upper Heavens, somewhere.) Anyone entering purgatory is already a saved soul, judged and bound for heaven. They just need to get put through a sort of moral boot camp first. In Dante's Purgatorio, the souls in Purgatory are suffering pains as severe as most in Hell, but they are all cheerful, because they know they are getting better and will get out. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 13:29:46 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Fallen/Redeemed Superiors. At 10:49 AM -0700 11/9/99, Ben Glickler wrote: >Welp, we've got Yves, Novalis, Blandine, Jordi, Christopher, and Michael for >Fallen Superiors. We've got Malphas, Asmodeus, and Haagenti for Redeemed >Superiors. > >Anyone wanna try their hands at more Redeeming bad guys? Especially if >they're as cool as the new Archangel of Gusto... ;) Yes. And don't count out the Alternate Michael, Demon Prince of Bunnies, just *yet.* - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 12:29:14 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: IN> God is Love Andrealphus Archangel of Love "God is caring and compasion and creating and he loves more than anyone ever can. But we can try." Andrealphus is really, really, really sorry. He tried to play off the hurt his Fall caused him, he tried to ignore the fact he was once one of the Archangels closest to what God was. Burying his pain in physical pleasure he lashed out at any of his servitors for daring to take on a temperment simular to his old Word. When he saw love he'd try and ruin it, nothing was too petty. Even taking a vessel of an attractive new teacher to redirect a crush that might grow into something more wasn't beneath his personal attention. More than any other Fallen Archangel he waned to stomp out his old Word and replace it with his new one. He was doing a good job, a very good job. He had confused the issues between Love and Lust, had come close to stomping out emotional attatchment as it relates to its physical expression. He had convinced himself that he was Lust and had left his old Word totally behind. Then he tried breaking up a marriage that had lasted for 50 years, built on love and firmly grounded. At first he was annoyed that his servitors couldn't mangage it, so he sent the Demon of Affairs to break it up. The demon never came back. Suspecting divine interference he decided to try breaking it up himself. He used every trick in the book, but the two stayed together and he couldn't stand it. Sulking back to Hell he decided to take a direct approach. One of his Calabim drove a truck strait into Mr. Williams' car as he was driving to the store. Gloating at the pain of the widow Andrealphus expected her to fold under the pain, to loose hope and then he could come and explain that it was foolish to love and lure her to Hell to keep the two seperated for ever. But she didn't fold under the pain, she drew strenght from the memory of love and lived on, waiting for her time to die not with morbid eagerness but with confident acceptance. His first reaction was a fit of rage that tore up Shal-Mari, anyone near the rampaging prince was overwhelm with a violent lust and the Game had to come in and put Shal-Mari under martial law while it tried to find the now Renegade Prince (declared so by Asmodeus). Calming down and finding himself on earth he realized he had been wrong. Everything he had done since he bought into Lucifer's Rebellion was just lying to himself, trying to spread his misery and masquerade it as enjoyment. He had nothing left, and was ready to just disband himself. Until he remembered he did have something. No one in heaven understood why a simple suburban house with a great big yard appeared in heaven. And not many recognised the Mercurian weeping with joy who came out of it. Andre was happy again and loving once more. DISSONANCE Andrephalhus's Word encompasses every type of love and how it can be directed in a possitive manner. It is dissonant to hinder love, it is also dissonant to artificially create love either by mundane or supernatural means (learning the ethereal song of attraction without permission can put one of his servitors in a heap of trouble). CHOIR ATTUNEMENTS Seraphim - -------- Profesions of love are automaticly reviewed by a Seraph of Love's resonance, with a cd of the Seraph's celstial forces, regardless of its already in effect or would otherwise be unusable. Cherubim - -------- These Cherubim can attune to relationships, and they can tell when their falling appart and why. Natural breaking of the relationship will be detected but not set of warning bells in the Cherub. Ofanim - ------ When someone confides in these angels about a loved one they have lost touch with these angels can use their resonance to locate that individual. Elohim - ------ With a touch these angels can purge an individual of supernatural influences on their emotions as well as increasing their resistance to mundane influences (-2 from target numbers of attempts to manipulate the individuals emotions for a number of days equal to the Elohite's celestial forces). If being used against the Habalah resonance the Elohite must make a resonance roll and beat the cd of the Habalite. Malakim - ------- Malakim of Love often defend victoms of twisted love. In addition to normal information from their resonance rolls they can discover if someone is feeling distorted feelings of love. This lets them pick out Djinn who are attuned to things (it might also pick up most Cherubim depending on your view of Cherubim). Kyriotates - ---------- These angels do remember their hosts lives, especially their relationships and their emotions. Mercurians - ---------- These angels may use their resonance to evaluate the quality of love between two people. Information about what kind of love it is, the intencity of it, how much they perceive the intencity of it to be in the other, etc are all useful tidbits that'll come up. SERVITOR ATTUNEMENTS With This Ring - -------------- For one essence the angel may invest any object that is a token of an individuals love for another with all the feelings of the giver. The recipient upon receiving the gift instantly knows how much the giver of the object loves them. True Feelings - ------------- With a touch and an essence the angel may clear the mind of a mortal, allowing them to understand their own emotions without any confusion. This insight lasts for a number of minutes equal to the angels celestial forces. DISTINCTIONS Vassal of Trust - --------------- These angels are very trust worthy and no mortals, and few celstials, find it difficult to confide in them. Needless to say these angels must be a trust worthy to gain this distinction. Friend of All - ------------- Anger and other negative emotions seem to fade around these angels, with a radious of their celestial forces. Its understated but hard to resist. If thier are no posstive emotions to take the place of the negative ones then it has no effect on (for example a rampaging Calabite who is hate embodied isn't going to be phased by this, but a POd angel will calm down and remember what their fighting for). Master of Second Chances - ------------------------ Rarely given out this Distinction allows Andre's most trusted servitors to perform Redemptions without calling upon him. They must love the subject in some way to employ this Distinction (not unlikely) and the subject must be sincer to survive (like anyother Redemption). RELATIONS Needless to say the more militant faction is not overly found of Andre, though he isn't as bad as Novalishe is not big on violence (though when his Malakim creatively punish stalkers and abusive husbands he doesn't discipline them that harshly). Even though Dominic and Laurence are supporters of Christianity, which has at its core the belief in a loving God, they don't like Andre. Not only because of what he once was, and that he is returning after Falling but because he isn't serious. He's totally informal, runs his operation with little in the way of discipline and is a flirt. This annoys the more stayed Archangels to no end. Also Dominic is bothered by the fact that no one knows who Redeemed the former Demon Prince. Andre hasn't said anything about it, and when asked about the who part of his Redemption he looks vaguely puzzled. He has an odd relationship with David, as David encourages a type of love. Neither knows what to make of the other however so when they work together they do and there are no problems but they don't actively help or hinder eachohter. Andre's Malakim duties sometimes overlap with Gabriel's Cherubim, they work happily together. Allied: Eli, Novalis, Yves (Eli and Novalis are Allied to him) Assosiated: Blandine (Blandine and Yves are assosiated with him) Hostile: No one (Dominic, Laurence and Michaelare hostile to him) BASIC RITES * Express your love for someone * Help someone remember forgotten love * Coax someone out of depression and bitterness (+2 essence, every year they stay out of it another 2 essence is gathered by the angel) CHANCE OF INVOCATION: 2 INVOCATION MODIFIERS +1 Someone with a crush +2 A gift given in love +3 Two people in love (any type) +4 A person confessing their love (anytype) +5 A person coaxed out of depressio nand bitterness +6 A large expression of love (anytype) If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 14:06:06 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Cry Havoc! Neel Krishnaswami wrote: > I think it's more likely that Michael thinks that Laurence turns to > him for help when he really doesn't need it. It might well be that. I still think making Laurence the master strategist and Michael the master tactician is also a good idea. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 15:52:20 -0500 From: Ben Aldred Subject: IN> Fear...for your fear will keep you ready Beleth, Archangel of Fear Fear is the best discipline. Know your fears and you can conquer anything. The redemption of Beleth started with an argument between the Nightmare Princess and Saminga. Some of Beleth's demons had been working in a hospice keeping alive the residents to further torture them and those around them with nightmares. Saminga found out about this and stormed off to Abbadon to raise an army. He returned the next day ready for battle to find the tower deserted. Beleth had tried to turn to Asmodeus for help but he waved her off saying something about such a dread princess being able to handle her own problems. Kronos had turned her away as well. She knew Malphas would be no help so she wandered off into the far marches fleeing the advancing army. She fled blindly into the mists and found herself lost. She could find nothing to point her in any direction and finally she sat down and began to silently cry to herself. As she did this she felt a tug upon her forces...an old attunement remaining unbroken despite thousands of years. She knew this attunement and started to follow where it lead her. She walked back through the far marches, back across the border between Hell and Heaven's dream territories, towards the tower that stood in the distance. When she reached the gates of the tower the guardians stood aside to let her pass. She entered the ivory tower and climbed the grand staircase eventually finding herself on the balcony. She rushed towards the figure standing on the edge and as she fell into Blandine's arms, she redeemed. The two of them spent several days in the tower during which everyone in the world dreamed of pure, true, unconditional love. When Beleth emerged she went before the Seraphim Council and humbly asked them to grant her the word of Fear, her word before the fall. After some debate, the council agreed to make her archangel of Fear. When Blandine redeemed one thing she brought with her were many of the pagan gods. She was there connection to hell and with a new Prince ruling the dreamscapes they did not feel safe. The return of many of these gods from the forces of hell has truly helped the war and for that some are grateful. However, Laurence and Khalid both former servitors of Purity and Dominic who still distrusts the Ethereal Gods all have an eye on her. DISSONANCE Beleth's angels work to promote fear and heal it rather than deny it. It is therefore dissonant for any servitor of Beleth to take action to make someone no longer have to deal with their fears. CHOIR ATTUNEMENTS Seraphim The most holy in service to fear know the truth about peoples fear. They know on a successful resonance roll if fear motivated a person to lie or tell the truth and what that fear was. Cherubim Beleth's Cherubim are charged with helping people through nightmares. They can enter the dreamscapes of those they are attuned to automatically. Ofanim Ofanim of fear are granted protection from one of Beleth's great fears. They cannot get lost in the marches. It has been their duty to seek out the ethereal gods and invite them to return to the dreams of mortals. Elohim Beleth's Elohim can sense fear in a subject automatically. They also with a check digit of 5 or 6 on a resonance roll know how best to help a subject overcome a fear(not that this is necessarily an easy thing). Malakim Malakim in service to Beleth help those who are afraid of death. Those fighting alongside them in battle automatically succeed to resist fear whether natural or not. Kyriotates Beleth's Kyriotates may automatically enter any host experiencing fear. The kyriotates overcoming of those fears in the mortals body is played out as a dream for the mortal. If the Kyriotate successfully overcomes a fear(i.e. handling a live snake or standing on top of a building) the possessed gets a bonus to overcome that fear in the future. Mercurians Mercurians of fear can, on a successful resonance roll, learn what a subject most fears in a current situation and why. SERVITOR ATTUNEMENTS Dream Walking Beleth has retained this attunement especially to help people overcome nightmares. If the person into whose dream the angel is walking is experiencing a nightmare the time able to be spent is twice the check digit in minutes. Otherwise it is similar to Blandine's Fight not Flight With the use of this attunement and the expenditure of 2 essence the angel using this can cause someone to automatically succeed on a will roll to overcome any fear related discords. The target will fight without succumbing to fear for d6 minutes. DISTINCTIONS Vassal of Fear Beleth's vassal can send nightmares to any sleeper within 500 yards. He then enters the dreamscape by the side of the dreamer as an ally against the fear. Friend of the Fearful The angel knows if anyone in his presence has fear related discords and at what level. Master of one's fears This distinction gives +2 towards any roll made in the marches. RELATIONS Beleth is far more active in Heaven than she was in hell. She has worked closely with michael indeed having many servitors on loan to him. There are still some who distrust her but she is swifty gaining support. Allied: Blandine, Michael Associated:Yves Hostile:David, Jean, Marc, Laurence BASIC RITES - -stay with a scared person for 2 full hours - -Help someone overcome a fear INVOCATION MODIFIERS +1 a whistled lullaby +2 a hero story +3 a copy of dune(fear is the mind-killer...) +4 an actual child's security blanket +5 on a high ropes course +6 a person talked out of suicide +8 at the top of Blandine's tower - -------------------------------- I hope you all like it. This was take two Ben ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 16:33:23 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Vessels At 12:53 PM -0800 11/9/99, Azrael wrote: >Do vessels leave fingerprints? Yah. >Do vessels pores produce oil? Yup. >Do vessels' have DNA? If so is it all the same? Or is it all the same for >the one celestial? Or the one Superior? >Is the DNA in the same form as humans? >Do they have the same # chromosomes? This is a bit CDaU in some ways. Check the CPG where it refers to potential mundane ways to detect celestials. (Some theories suggest that _old_ vessels have Ye Generic DNA, while new ones have it properly randomized so that a simple DNA test won't catch 'em.) Generally, they have DNA, it's not identical to anything any more than a normal human's would be, it looks human, and they have the proper number of chromosomes. >Do they reflect photons? They're corporeal matter, so yes. Celestial forms do not. >Are they chemically identical to a normal human? Basically. >Are they also approx 80% water? (That number fluctuates btwix various sources) Yup. >Are the affected by the flu' and other virus'? No. This can be treated as a Hyper-Effecient immune system (since the Prince of Disease was rumored to have been developing diseases that _could_ affect vessels), or that vessels are in a state of chemical stasis most of the time, and diseases simply can't reproduce sufficiently in them. However, vessels can be carriers of diseases. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 16:59:37 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> New Malakim At 10:12 AM -0600 11/9/99, Amo Nympham wrote: >when did the last angel to change into a Malakim transform? During the Fall. >is it still >possible for an angel to undergo such transformation? No, not in canon. (Though presumably God could always do it if It wanted to -- but to let that happen trivially would be kind of... cheapening the initial genesis of Malakim. Unless you want to make a whole new universe...) [I am minded of a "non-canon" universe-hopping thread that Maya (the GM of the Fiat campaign) did, where the PCs wound up in "Purity Universe." Uriel was still around, apparently never did the anti-ethereal Purity Crusade, and some of the parallel characters _had_ done the transform. For some reason, though, the PCs didn't want to stay in that universe long...] - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 16:54:11 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Changing Choirs At 9:05 AM -0500 11/9/99, Whistling in the Dark wrote: >At 7:49 AM -0600 11/9/99, David Edelstein wrote: >>(b) He wouldn't really be the same being anymore; more like a >>new creation who happens to have the old being's memories. > >Which, if you think about it, makes sense. A resonance is more than >a super power. It's an entire worldview expressed as a note in the >Symphony. Another way I think about it is, say you have a cymbal, and you melt it down and reshape it into a trumpet -- there is really nothing left of the cymbal except that they're both metal. You've destroyed the old, and used the pieces to create the new... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 17:05:21 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Ruggedized Calabim At 12:02 PM -0500 11/9/99, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Here's a cheery thought: I gather that Malakim are immune to >Trauma simply because they've been through it so much, they've >built up a resistance, not because of any resistance built into >their design to start with. Though the main book implies this, it's actually not the case -- it's built into them, from day one, though a Malakite on his first death may be slightly disoriented for a few seconds or even minutes. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 17:13:23 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Destiny? At 10:32 AM -0700 11/9/99, Ben Glickler wrote: >> Does hne go to heaven? > >Do people who achieve their Fates necessarily go to Hell, and do those who >achieve their Destinies necessarily go to Heaven? Yes, and yes. But with lower cases. ("fate" and "destiny" are the nouns. Fate and Destiny are the Words.) > If someone has a fairly >lackluster Destiny, or a fairly harmless Fate, they won't be all that >good/evil. Ah, but their destiny is the _best_ they can be, and their fate is the _worst_. So they're small, petty evil. They're still doing the most harm to the Symphony that they're able. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 15:29:09 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Fear...for your fear will keep you ready >When Blandine redeemed one thing she brought with her were many of the >pagan gods. Beleth not Blandine (just a little nitpicking to supplement my rambling essence). I'm not so sure that the Pagan gods would be so eager to aid heaven considering heaven tried to decimate them and considering many of them think that God is just one of them who is bloated with power. I liked the write up, however it leaves two questions. The first is who has Hell put in charge of its side of the Marches now? I'd imagine Kronos, Malphas and Kobal would all want the job. Kronos would be fit because he has the knowledge of the Symphony to whip up some attunements for dealing with the Marches not to mention the fact that he can use nightmares (and dreams) to help guide someone towards their Fate. Malphas would love to use nightmares to inflame petty squables and the like, however he may not have the knowledge neccesary to succesfully get the job. Kobal, just looking at Beleth's expanded write up in the Marches indicates that he has plans for the ethereal realm and he is a master of improv. The second is a minor point, you just forogt the base invocation modifier. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 14:31:45 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Martin Subject: Re: IN> Destiny? On Tue, 9 Nov 1999, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Ah, but their destiny is the _best_ they can be, and their fate is the > _worst_. So they're small, petty evil. They're still doing the most harm > to the Symphony that they're able. The wording of all of this implies strongly that if you don't "meet" your destiny, you will not see Heaven -- you'll be reincarnated to try again (assuming you don't meet your fate). This places the people mentioned in Fall of the Malakim, the people with "limitless destinies", pretty much out of God's reach, doesn't it? That always sort of bothered me -- that the people Yves considers the most important to his Word are essentially trapped on Earth. How can you reach the infinite as a mortal? Can you get into Heaven even if you don't meet your destiny? Are there thresholds of selflessness that guarantee entry? -- Michael Martin Be kind of random and beautifully senseless. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 15:47:35 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: IN> The Antichrist, Cults and other questions Ok my first question is as follows: It says that the divine religions do not have ethereals representing the relgion (ie their is no ethereal Jesus). The definition of a divine religion seems to be circular (its only a divine religion if no ethereal being exists to represent it). Now as the subject might imply what about the Antichrist. The biblical Antichrist is a metaphor, not a literal being as often interpreted now. Thus does an ethereal Antichrist exist, or because Christianity is one of the divine religions does it not spawn any ethereals. My second question is related. Is there a point where a splinter from one of the divine religions looses that status and generates an ethereal as a resault. For example some cult that worships the Antichrist. Which leads into the third. What about Satan worship? Does Lucifer get essence from that? Finally this question is only somewhat related. Since a new cult that forms if they provide enough essence will create an ethereal patron (as is my understanding of how these things work), assuming some oppertunistic ethereal doesn't step in and fill that role, can a mortal in the know design rituals and prayers and the like that will create a tailored ethereal. Basically a god on demand. A variant on this is can that mortal using their knowledge of Essence and the Symphony set themselves up for worship, draw essence from it and become an ethereal. Or would they have to prepare the cult for worshiping an ethereal, kill themselves and become a dream shade and then grow to a sort of godhood through the cult. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 16:48:58 -0600 From: "Amo Nympham" Subject: Re: IN> God is Love interestingly enough, there's a never-fallen Andrealphus, AA of Love in the playtest for Superiors 2, I believe for nothing else than the purpose of still-around servitors and a nice historical look. - - Dennis H, Groome V "Amo Nympham" ICQ: 11430261 http://welcome.to/EvM_Gamers "I think I woke up screaming 'cause I had a dream that you still loved me" -Stabbing Westward, "ACF" ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1400 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.