From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Thu Nov 11 16:23:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (root@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA06583 for ; Thu, 11 Nov 1999 16:23:44 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id QAA08907 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Thu, 11 Nov 1999 16:01:47 -0600 Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 16:01:47 -0600 Message-Id: <199911112201.QAA08907@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1406 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Thursday, November 11 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1406 In this digest: Re: IN> Vessels and Words. Re: IN>Malakim Oaths Re: IN> Losing Superior status? Re: IN> Losing Superior status? IN> Lost Servants Re: IN> Vessels and Words. Re: IN> Losing Superior status? Re: IN> Losing Superior status? Re: IN>Malakim Oaths Re: IN>Malakim Oaths Re: IN> Vessels and Words. Re: IN> Losing Superior status? Re: IN> Vehicular Vessels (was Vessels and Words) Re: IN> Losing Superior status? Re: IN> Ruggedized Calabim Re: IN> God is Love Re: IN> Marc and Capitalism/Communism Re: IN> Weep for your children Re: IN> Destiny? Re: IN> Losing Superior status? IN> Silly Discord Re: IN> Losing Superior status? Re: IN> Destiny? Re: IN> Losing Superior status? Re: IN> Servitor Meetings Re: IN> God is Love Re: IN> Vehicular Vessels (was Vessels and Words) Re: IN> Servitor Meetings IN> Dreaded Names (Re: Losing Superior status?) IN> Forces <=> Essence Re: IN> Vehicular Vessels (was Vessels and Words) Re: IN> Servitor Meetings Re: IN> Losing Superior status? Re: IN> When Creation goes out of control! Re: IN> Vehicular Vessels (was Vessels and Words) Re: IN> Destiny? Re: IN> Servitor Meetings Re: IN> Changing Choirs ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 12:20:59 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Vessels and Words. The comedy value alone of vehicular vessels is a strong argument for them. "I'll have you know that tank is a Malakite of Michael." (IN meets Ogre.) And what Ophanite wouldn't leap at the chance to *be* a helicopter or a jet? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 12:23:48 -0500 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN>Malakim Oaths Walter Milliken wrote: > Personally, I'd say the two standard oaths are part of their Choir nature, > much like their resonance and dissonance are. (Now I have to go double-check > to see what I said in GURPS IN about this....) I agree. That which makes an angel one of the Malakim is the unbreakable bonds of holy fervor and commitment, as inseperable from them as... hmmmm... there's no appropriate analogy. They're that dedicated! IMO, the oaths are part of a reason they can't Fall. It binds them to Heaven more tightly than any other Choir. > > Interestingly, Malakim are the only Choir that can select even *some* of > their dissonance conditions. (Of course, it might be that the Superior > creating them gets to select the other two as "customizations" of the > basic-model Malakite. And relievers who fledge Malakite may simply > "grow into" their oaths -- some aspect already in their personality > "locks in".) So you could play either side of the free will debate there. IMO, the oaths (whatever formalities are involved) are an expression of the nature of the Malakite. The first two, I believe, exist full-blown as soon as one fledges and all but the most confused of Malakim know them immediately. Ones after that are chosen consciously. - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for Data General + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 12:31:24 -0500 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> Losing Superior status? EDG wrote: > > Question: Can an Archangel, without Falling, dying, or becoming a Remnant, > ever lose Archangel status due to decline of their Word? (Likewise Demon > Princes.) If so, do they become servitors of other Archangels? What > happens to their own servitors? Becoming an Archangel is an essential phase-change for a Word-bound. What is hidden, though, is that there are costs as well as benefits from being a Superior. My guess is that any Superior whose Word falters sufficiently will be destroyed in any number of GM-adjudicated ways. The Word that supported them and defined them will turn into a drain. Ttheir energies and Forces will leech away trying to support their Word directly rather than the other way around. (How's that, Beth?) > > Also, what is the invocation modifier to invoke a Superior who Fell, for > former angels of the Superior's old Word? Their nature is different, so it's no better or worse than trying to summon a random demon prince. - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for Data General + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 09:21:02 -0700 From: EDG Subject: Re: IN> Losing Superior status? At 12:05 PM 11/11/99 -0500, you wrote: >I don't think you *can* invoke a Superior who's switched sides. Or if you >can, it's no easier than for any other non-Servitor of the Fallen Superior. My logic was that the other-side Superior might still notice the things that his servitors used to call him (i.e., invocation modifiers) - at least when he was newly Fallen. >As far as I know, in canon, Lilith is the only Superior who can be summoned >by those who aren't direct Servitors. (Though in our games, a lot of There's a general invocation modifier in the main book for this - -10 if the Superior you're summoning isn't your own. I'm not sure if or how that would apply to other-side Superiors, though. - -EDG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 12:13:41 -0500 From: Jerry & Virginia Phillips Subject: IN> Lost Servants After reading the "Tether of Light" adventure seed at the end, a thought had occurred to me. How many other servants are still existence who still follow Superiors who have either Fallen or who are otherwise missing? The adventure I mentioned says there are still Servants of Light running around. We all know Purity still has a following (The Tsayadim) but what or Servants of Love, the Waters, Knowledge, or even Fear? I just curious for anybody elses take on this. I planning on using this as a springboard for other adventures. Tom - -- vphilli@erols.com The Truth Is Out There http://members.xoom.com/harfordstampclub/harco~1.htm Harford Co.,MD http://members.xoom.com/susso/sso.htm Susquehanna Symphony Orchestra witmic Women In The Money Investing Club Aberdeen, MD ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 09:43:37 -0800 From: Steel Angel Subject: Re: IN> Vessels and Words. Earl Wajenberg wrote: > The comedy value alone of vehicular vessels is a strong argument for > them. "I'll have you know that tank is a Malakite of Michael." > (IN meets Ogre.) And what Ophanite wouldn't leap at the chance > to *be* a helicopter or a jet? And what good Calabite of Belial wouldn't jump at the chance to *be* an Intercontinental ballistic Missile? There's a thought for ya. - - Abracax: Shedite of Riots ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 12:48:21 -0500 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> Losing Superior status? John Karakash wrote: > > Also, what is the invocation modifier to invoke a Superior who Fell, for > > former angels of the Superior's old Word? > > > Their nature is different, so it's no better > or worse than trying to summon a random demon prince. > I forgot to add... (i.e. none, as far as I know. Though several have mentioned that Lilith is open to offers, she's outside the scope of this discussion.) If a Fallen AA were to OPEN themselves to being summoned by non-servitors, that's another can o' worms! - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for Data General + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 12:52:52 -0500 From: "Chris Bergstresser" Subject: Re: IN> Losing Superior status? - ----- Original Message ----- From: Steel Angel > Tim Groth wrote: > > > Um I don't think you can summon Superiors on the other side. And I don't > > think a Superior would want to come and chat civily with a servitor that > > didn't follow them over to the other side. But I'd put it at -10 because I > > like the number 10 (and if I remember that's the number for angels trying > > to summon Lilith). > > Gee, that'd be too easy of a trap, huh? Summon Haagenti or Malphas and have > Michael and Laurence standing by. I'd say it's just a matterof if you can > produce a Celestial or Diabolic 'call' of the proper 'frequency'. That's not correct. Summoning a superior simply means you've got their attention. Doesn't mean they'll personally show up -- summoning Michael in the middle of a battle is more likely to get you a bunch of Malakim dropping in then Michael himself. In my campaign, successfully summoning Jean generally causes your cell phone to start ringing. - -- Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 13:00:31 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN>Malakim Oaths At 6:58 PM -0700 11/10/99, Tim Groth wrote: >that oath was removed. In the APG it says Oaths can be removed by a >Superior, just like it was Discord. Do note that in the GMG () I believe it says that the celestial who's having the Discord removed has to cooperate -- or that it has to be done by the Superior who holds that celestial's Heart. IIRC. So it's rather unlikely that a Malakite would even let a Prince _try_... (I'd rule that the first two oaths are Malakite Nature and if you remove either of them, the Malakite unravels, period.) (Which doesn't say that, if one wanted Choir Changing, one couldn't say that unraveling the two Default Oaths would get you an angel of a different Choir. Just to add in a little non-canon stuff that might amuse.) (And, of course, you could have a "Sombody with the Secret of De-Oathing Malakim" as an adventure McGuffin.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 13:00:25 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN>Malakim Oaths Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > (I'd rule that the first two oaths are Malakite Nature and if you > remove either of them, the Malakite unravels, period.) ...and, if you wanted Late Malakim (non-canon), you might have some method for non-Malakim to take Malakim-style oaths (with the same rules for consequences for breakage), and if a non-Malakite took the two core Malakite oaths, it changes into a Malakite. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 13:17:43 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Vessels and Words. At 12:04 PM -0500 11/11/99, John Karakash wrote: >Ben Glickler wrote: >> >> Can a Celestial take an ITEM as a vessel? I have a player who asked if he >> can be a car as one of his vessels. [...] > [...] > Buy the vessel like a normal one, but >Charisma is only an option if the GM allows it. >(Even then, it should only cost one point per >level since interacting with society and sex >appeal hardly ever come into play with a car... >at least not for the car itself!) What about Kitt? O:> > More so that human-style vessels, vehicles >can be made quite tough. I'd allow vessel levels >higher than 6; in fact I'd insist on them for very >large or powerful ones! > I'm not sure that I'd go with higher vessel-levels, but the rest of it there -- that looks reasonable to me. Perhaps Jean and/or Vapula's writeups will have a box about such things... (I don't know that they'd be the _only_ ones to do it, but they're probably the experts.) (And the Demon Cop Car was spitting Acid at us from its grille! And it righted itself after the Ofanite ran it off the road into the median strip! For a while there, the Renegade in cat-vessel was thinking real hard of crawling under the seat. And into it. While the idiot angels were arrested. But the Ofanite got us away.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 13:25:39 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Losing Superior status? At 12:31 PM -0500 11/11/99, John Karakash wrote: > [...] >The Word that supported them and defined them will turn >into a drain. Ttheir energies and Forces will leech away >trying to support their Word directly rather than the other >way around. > (How's that, Beth?) Probably close -- especially if you figure that their enormous Forces are _because_ of their Word, and not their Superior status. Heck, things that Superiors do may depend on them having a lot of power to blow, and once they lose that power... And that's all based on GMG stuff, so it's probably pretty-near-canon, at that. > >> Also, what is the invocation modifier to invoke a Superior who Fell, for >> former angels of the Superior's old Word? > > > Their nature is different, so it's no better >or worse than trying to summon a random demon prince. > For a while, Fallen Princes might pay attention to invocations. The better to, ah, recruit the undecided or destroy the traitors... I'd actually leave it up to the GM to decide whether the Prince is paying attention to calls from his old Servitors, or ignoring them. (In the latter case, the -10 modifier sounds fine to me.) If the Prince is paying attention... The angels probably don't want to even whisper his name, frankly... - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 13:29:33 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Vehicular Vessels (was Vessels and Words) Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > (And the Demon Cop Car was spitting Acid at us from its grille! And it > righted itself after the Ofanite ran it off the road into the median > strip! For a while there, the Renegade in cat-vessel was thinking > real hard of crawling under the seat. And into it. While the idiot > angels were arrested. But the Ofanite got us away.) I would love to have seen that. It sounds exactly in my groups' style. We even have a talking cat (genetically engineered, in our case). Now: What happens if you're in your car vessel and have passengers, and switch to your human vessel. (I didn't say whether you LIKED your passengers.) You *might* pop them into potentiality along with the seat covers, but probably the right game-mechanic is to have them drop to the pavement as the car vanishes and your human vessel appears roughly where the engine was. What happens if you switch from your car vessel to your motorcycle vessel? I *really* want to see this done with three passengers, at 80 mph. Maybe, if you make your Agility roll, you can have all three suddenly piled on the seat. And your familiar becomes the sidecar. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 13:37:08 -0500 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> Losing Superior status? Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > > > >> Also, what is the invocation modifier to invoke a Superior who Fell, for > >> former angels of the Superior's old Word? > > > > > > Their nature is different, so it's no better > >or worse than trying to summon a random demon prince. > > > > For a while, Fallen Princes might pay attention to invocations. The > better to, ah, recruit the undecided or destroy the traitors... I'd > actually leave it up to the GM to decide whether the Prince is paying > attention to calls from his old Servitors, or ignoring them. (In the > latter case, the -10 modifier sounds fine to me.) > > If the Prince is paying attention... The angels probably don't want > to even whisper his name, frankly... I like this. So mote it be! ;) - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for Data General + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 17:19:26 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> Ruggedized Calabim From: Elizabeth McCoy > Though the main book implies this, it's actually not the case -- it's > built into them, from day one, though a Malakite on his first death > may be slightly disoriented for a few seconds or even minutes. i like the idea of a younf malakite being sheepish because it took him a whole 60 seconds to recover from dying :) liam ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 17:39:47 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> God is Love From: Tim Groth > I'm stuck on Eli's Word however (I've considered > Stagnation, Banality, Emptiness or something to that effect but I haven't > been able to decide). he seems a good candidate for Corruption if you ask me > I was also not sure about whether or not to keep > Lilith on Hell's side you kind of scuppered for lilim if you don't. unless of course you did a complete turnaround and had lilim as perfect angels created by a heavenly lilith who rarely (though not never) fall. perhaps leaving the malakim as a band of demons who cannot be redeemed because they are so corrupt (the VIces?). maybe the original malakim were servitors of (evil version) michael who were reformed by his rebellion into "pure evil" liam ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 18:15:00 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> Marc and Capitalism/Communism From: Ben Glickler > Maybe the Word of Capitalism (my choice for a Fallen Marc, since he'd ignore > all other forms of economics and go with the one Hell would like the most) > was held by a Demon who has since redeemed. i expect there'd be both an angel and a demon of capitalism, one working for marc and one for mammon. possibly the same for communism. one dispirited servitor of stone (who probably hold up cuba like a banner, and spends most of his time trying to sort out china), and a conflicted demon (he's done a good job of corrupting the ideals of capitalism, but he's also done a good job of working himself out of a word). i could see the demon of communism serving a variety of princes; fate (trying to create societies that stop people from reaching their destinies), greed (a small elite get to control everyone else), factions (everyone outside is the enemy), maybe even dark humour (turn david's ideal into a big joke) liam ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 18:38:19 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> Weep for your children From: > The first involves the Angels of Final Judgment. Surely their Destinies > involve being in Hell, and almost certainly they volunteered for the > position. > The second involves an angel going out in a blaze of glory, heading to > Hell and taking out as much as possible before the Horde cuts him down. > The third involves an angel who Falls and becomes one of Hell's trusted. > Come Armageddon, the ex-angel recognizes the error of his ways and > delivers vital information to Heaven, at the same time asking for but not > expecting Redemption. perhaps i misinterpreted you. by "going to hell" i assumed you meant dying and ending up there for good (or falling), rather than you happen to have a job there, as in the case of the angels of final judgement. as for the second example, i'd say that getting killed while fighting a bunch of demons isn't much of a destiny, unless you managed to take out a DP or something in the process. i'd agree with the third example, though it isn't really "going to hell", more "being in hell for a while till you go back to heaven" liam ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 18:40:17 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> Destiny? From: Santiago > It's a person who's doing all the right things (helping > others and fulfilling their fate) because of a very selfish reason > (they prefer going to Heaven instead of Hell). this seems to be a bit of a semantics argument, though. of course it should feel good to be good. otherwise it wouldn't *be* good (if you see what i mean) liam ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 12:13:56 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Losing Superior status? > Gee, that'd be too easy of a trap, huh? Summon Haagenti or Malphas and >have >Michael and Laurence standing by. I'd say it's just a matterof if you can >produce a Celestial or Diabolic 'call' of the proper 'frequency'. I think that the invoked Superior could feel the presence of another Superior at the site, and wouldn't go. Personally I see no reason why a Superior couldn't sense an invocation attempt from any being (including stupid punk satanist wannabe kids). They just don't answer them, or if they do answer them its with very unpleasent Songs. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 13:15:45 -0600 (CST) From: "James T. Peebles" Subject: IN> Silly Discord After a breif talk with an AA, that will remain nameless, this discord came to my attention. Comments, criticism and suggestions welcome, this is my first try at writing a discord. No Sense of Humor Discord (Ethereal) Malakim just look like they have this. Really. A celestial being with this discord just doesn't get it. At all. Ever! Humor, sacrasm, wit, puns, sight gags, physical humor and comments to releive the tension, et al, just slip past this guy. Nor can these poor souls ever attempt any kind of humor. This is prehaps one of the worse discords a mercurian or a impudite could ever get, sense it cuts them off from humanity. Kobal tends to get irritated when his servitors pick this discord up and will remove it on sight if he does notice (He usually replaces it with a more suitable one though), though when Gamesters have it they make prefect straight men for Dark Humor's more... suicidal comedians. Mechanics: Best to be roleplayed but here's some quick and dirty rules if you want. Double the level of discord and subtract from the celestial's intellegence or perception (which ever is lower) then role against the adjusted stat to see if they get the joke. Mortals may never have more then two levels of this as a disadvantage. James, Soldier of God ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 11:18:12 -0800 (PST) From: David Barr Subject: Re: IN> Losing Superior status? > As far as I know, in canon, Lilith is the only Superior who can be > summoned > by those who aren't direct Servitors. (Though in our games, a lot > of people > are cautious about using the names of Superiors -- especially Demon > Princes, > and most especially Lucifer. You never know what they might > respond to....) > > > ---Walter {Angel One}How do you refer to them, then? "She is a Servant of...The UnNameable One." (Angel two)"Oh, you mean Belial?" (angel one)"No, no... the Other Unameable One." [conversation continues until the Name of the UnNameable one is given, with all the associated consequences...] - -Daiv, servitor of Tech Support ===== reply to my home address -> daiv@cruzio.com my mother once said that boy is stranger than a three toed barking frog - -Daiv __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 18:43:02 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> Destiny? From: EDG > There's a clause in a few passages in the In Nomine ruleset that I've > always thought should apply to Destiny and Fate as well, but it seems it > doesn't: "barring celestial intervention". that's a very good point. any occurence where someone could find out their destiny or fate would actually alter that D or F. that's why it causes such a great disturbance when a celestial kills a human - they've ended that person's life before their preordained D/F had a chance to happen. liam ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 14:30:38 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Losing Superior status? David Barr wrote: > {Angel One}How do you refer to them, then? "She is a Servant of...The > UnNameable One." > (Angel two)"Oh, you mean Belial?" > (angel one)"No, no... the Other Unameable One." etc. The traditional method among humans is to come up with derogatory nicknames. "Old Nick" is one for Satan. Um... off the top of my head: Little Miss Freakout (Beleth) Fatso, Mr. "Say Ah" (Haagenti) The Gag Man (Kobal) The Paper-Pusher (Kronos or Asmodeus) Surely other can do better?... Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 12:33:25 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Servitor Meetings Andrealphus - Censored Asmodeus - Top Secret Baal - Standerd war room Beleth - Stephen King's dream scape Belial - Anywhere burning Haagenti - Ming's all you can eat chinese buffet Kobal - Set of the Daily Show, or set of Dennis Miller's show Kronos - Just some house in the suburbs Malphas - High schools Nybbas - NBC head quarters Saminga - Graveyards Valefor - The Canopy Vapula - Any lab where progress is put above human rights and other such petty concerns. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 12:36:53 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> God is Love >you kind of scuppered for lilim if you don't. unless of course you did a >complete turnaround and had lilim as perfect angels created by a heavenly >lilith who rarely (though not never) fall. perhaps leaving the malakim as a >band of demons who cannot be redeemed because they are so corrupt (the >VIces?). maybe the original malakim were servitors of (evil version) michael >who were reformed by his rebellion into "pure evil" Creepily simular to what I have. The Malatia (still a working name) are the Vices, and they've sworn the downfall of heaven. I'm still debating whether or not to make Lilith an Archangel or not, that would give Heaven 15 major superiors to hell's 14, but she probably wouldn't have many servitors and Michael does have a few direct servitors even though he is the ruler of Hell. The Vices resonance deals with causing a human to have intensified dark impulses. They uphold their own honor to prove their better than humanity. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 14:50:46 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Vehicular Vessels (was Vessels and Words) At 1:29 PM -0500 11/11/99, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> (And the Demon Cop Car was spitting Acid at us from its grille![..] > But the Ofanite got us away.) > >I would love to have seen that. It sounds exactly in my groups' >style. We even have a talking cat (genetically engineered, in our >case). Eeek! Gengineering.... Somehow, I think the Lightning Lot would probably have been upset by finding something like that. >Now: What happens if you're in your car vessel and have passengers, >and switch to your human vessel. I'd probably figure that anything living is dumped on the pavement. Remember that if you do this at 60mph, your non-vehicle vessel will also be going 60mph... >What happens if you switch from your car vessel to your motorcycle >vessel? I *really* want to see this done with three passengers, >at 80 mph. Maybe, if you make your Agility roll, you can have >all three suddenly piled on the seat. And your familiar becomes >the sidecar. Only if it has a sidecar vessel! I think that I'd require some kind of roll and good explanation of how they were doing it, but otherwise leave it up to the GM who _wants_ that kind of complexity and rules-mechanics. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 19:46:03 GMT From: "Trey Reilly" Subject: Re: IN> Servitor Meetings >Eli's servitors have massive bacchanalia. Hrm.. or at one of those little French open-air cafes, drinking incredible coffee or at an art class or gallery or painters studio. or at the ballet >Janus' servitors meet at an amusement park after hours or at an air show. >Marc's go outside the office building and pick up some hot dogs from the >vendor outside. This one I love, though. Poor Marc. Wonder if he ever dresses down for Casual Fridays? :-) - --Trey ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 14:59:17 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Dreaded Names (Re: Losing Superior status?) At 11:18 AM -0800 11/11/99, David Barr wrote: > >> (Though in our games, a lot of people are cautious about >>using the names of Superiors -- especially Demon Princes, >>and most especially Lucifer. You never know what they might >>respond to....) >> >{Angel One}How do you refer to them, then? "She is a Servant of...The >UnNameable One." Actually, it usually works out to using the Word, or a particular term. Andre gets "Beautiful Prince," for instance. Beleth might get "The Mistress of Evil Dreams" or "of the Dark Marches." Lucifer gets "Morning Star" or "Lightbringer" or "the Shining One" (more rarely). - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 13:04:23 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: IN> Forces <=> Essence Ok there is obvioulsy a relation between Forces and Essence. I've always figured one could become another, and they were infact the same thing in different forms. Finally I got around to formalizing it so here goes. Using the Geas value chart in FotM it says a Level 3 geas is worth 1 character point of stuff, whiel a Level 1 geas is worth 1 essence. So 1 essence costs about third of a character point. So that would mean a singe Force's cost in essence would be 30 essence. Which would be why the average celestial never is able to manifest new Forces purely by flow of essence. It would also explain how Superiors get so buffed up. Once they have a Word pumping them with Essence to the point where its coming in about 30+ at a time it starts converting into Forces. Solidifing as it where. It also gives a mechanism for explaining why ethereals places and gods are built around worship. An ethereal place needs to be constructed of Forces like anything else, and considering the shifting nature of the Marches to remain stable would require a constant influx that would provide the location with the Forces. Once the essence flow drops off then the starts to become as fluid and indefinete as any other random local in the Marches. Likewise ethereal gods need to be able to do god like things, and thus a huge flow of essence from massive amounts of worshipers is a good thing. It also explains why they couldn't off the angels as well. A Word can provide much more essence than worship can because it draws directly from the Symphony not from humans. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 15:13:04 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Vehicular Vessels (was Vessels and Words) Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >I would love to have seen that. It sounds exactly in my groups' > >style. We even have a talking cat (genetically engineered, in our > >case). > > Eeek! Gengineering.... Somehow, I think the Lightning Lot would > probably have been upset by finding something like that. They'd be even more upset to learn that he's the test-pilot for a small interdimensional craft that looks rather like an egg. (Do you read the "Rose Is Rose" comic? Think of the little boy's dream ship.) They used a cat because only cats can see the little flickers of dimensional rifts you need to fly the thing. This is, in fact, what ordinary cats are looking at when they're watching things you can't see. (This is a PC played by the GM's 15-year-old son, and is a reliable source of slapstick.) > Only if it has a sidecar vessel! I think that I'd > require some kind of roll and good explanation of how they were > doing it, but otherwise leave it up to the GM who _wants_ that > kind of complexity and rules-mechanics. Like I said, an Agility roll. And a ... cinematic GMing style. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 15:51:58 EST From: MarkDEddy@aol.com Subject: Re: IN> Servitor Meetings In a message dated 11/11/99 11:47:42 AM, treyreilly@hotmail.com writes: >>Marc's go outside the office building and pick up some hot dogs from the >>vendor outside. >This one I love, though. Poor Marc. Wonder if he ever dresses down for >Casual Fridays? :-) > Of course he does. That's why he's wearing a gray silk Armani suit, rather than a three-piece black pinstripe. :) Mark (no 'c') ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 20:20:24 GMT From: maya@tcp.co.uk (GR Cogman) Subject: Re: IN> Losing Superior status? >The traditional method among humans is to come up with >derogatory nicknames. "Old Nick" is one for Satan. >Um... off the top of my head: > >Little Miss Freakout (Beleth) >Fatso, Mr. "Say Ah" (Haagenti) >The Gag Man (Kobal) >The Paper-Pusher (Kronos or Asmodeus) In my own Fiat campaign, Servitors of David had a particular dislike of mentioning Magog by name. (Why yes, there was a plot thread involving him, why do you ask?) He was simply referred to as "that one", usually with context already established. But that was a very particular dislike. - --- Genevieve Cogman maya@tcp.co.uk `Ce n'est qu'en travaillant que les ides viennent' (Sade) ("It is only through working that ideas come") ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 14:42:50 -0600 From: Uncle Wolf Subject: Re: IN> When Creation goes out of control! Ehrbar wrote: > > Yawning Void > > > > The demon can utterly annihilate unliving matter (that is, matter with no > > Forces tied to it). Per point of Essence spent, he can destroy a cubic > > inch of metal, a cubic foot of stone, or a cubic yard of dirt or water. > > Annihilation doesn't seem consistent with the Cancer... > No, but creating nothing from something is very nearly the antithesis of Abracadabra, Bright Eli's Servitor Attunement. Take care all, and be well - Tom Timberlake, Cadre Cherub of Heaven - -- "Strange blood, howl again, for now we know to well Better a friend on paths unknown, than to be alone in Hell!" --"Strange Blood" "A Wolfrider's Reflection", various artist ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 16:33:32 -0500 From: Walter Milliken Subject: Re: IN> Vehicular Vessels (was Vessels and Words) At 14:50 -0500 11/11/99, Elizabeth McCoy wrote: >>Now: What happens if you're in your car vessel and have passengers, >>and switch to your human vessel. > >I'd probably figure that anything living is dumped on the pavement. >Remember that if you do this at 60mph, your non-vehicle vessel >will also be going 60mph... Not necessarily -- when you abandon a vessel, there's no particular reason to think that a corporeal property like momentum should carry over to the new one. (In fact, that would raise all kinds of other physics quirks unless the vessels had the same mass.) I'd be inclined to say a vessel has the velocity of its surroundings, when manifested. So you can switch vessels inside a speeding car without problems, but if you jumped out of the car, and managed to time switching vessels right, you could wind up standing still on the street. I believe it was decided that vessel-switching used the celestial form as a sort of transient intermediate stage (though only for an instant), hence the disturbance. But celestial forms are mostly immune to corporeal physics. - ---Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 18:48:51 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> Destiny? From: Ben Glickler > If someone has a fairly > lackluster Destiny, or a fairly harmless Fate, they won't be all that > good/evil. i can't see destinies and fates being "hamrless" or "lacklustre" myself. kind of defeats the point liam ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 16:48:04 -0500 From: "Chris Bergstresser" Subject: Re: IN> Servitor Meetings Guys, you're missing a major point about Marc -- he's *good* at what he does. That means he's wearing the Brooks Brothers three piece for Wall Street, the Armani for Midtown, and Banana Republic for the Silicon Alley startup. And knock it off about the Seraphim Council/Powerpoint cracks while you're at it; Marc's meetings are short, direct, and to the point. When he sits down with you over lunch at Le Cirque to "discuss" something, on the other hand . . . - -- Chris - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, November 11, 1999 3:51 PM Subject: Re: IN> Servitor Meetings > > In a message dated 11/11/99 11:47:42 AM, treyreilly@hotmail.com writes: > > >>Marc's go outside the office building and pick up some hot dogs from the > >>vendor outside. > > >This one I love, though. Poor Marc. Wonder if he ever dresses down for > >Casual Fridays? :-) > > > Of course he does. That's why he's wearing a gray silk Armani suit, rather > than a three-piece black pinstripe. :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 18:47:21 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> Changing Choirs From: jonh smith > I think they did it pretty much on their own, out of their own > rage. nope, it was definitely God who did it. they just volunteered > isn' t this one of the things that seems to indicate that malakim are > actually demons? i wasn't aware that there were *any* things that indicate malakim are demons > They changed choir purely by force of their own will. see above > And > that is the same way demons changed into bands i think of most angels falling because of a *lack* of will, in a sense. they don't have the willpower to stay true to their resonance, to avoid selfishness, and so they become demons liam ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1406 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. 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