From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Nov 12 15:33:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (majordom@lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA31454 for ; Fri, 12 Nov 1999 15:33:55 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id PAA26776 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 12 Nov 1999 15:34:22 -0600 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 15:34:22 -0600 Message-Id: <199911122134.PAA26776@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1409 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, November 12 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1409 In this digest: Re: IN> Vehicular Vessels (was Vessels and Words) Re: IN> Superior nicknames Re: [FLUFF] Laurence & Marc (was Re: IN> Marc and Capitalism/Communism) Re: IN> Re: [FLUFF] Laurence & Marc IN> Re: How To Meet Beautiful Women Re: IN> Vehicular Vessels. Re: IN> Vehicular Vessels. Re: IN> Servitor Meetings Re: IN> Vehicular Vessels. IN> Malakim and Demons (Re: Changing Choirs) Re: IN> Cry Havoc! Re: IN> Losing Superior status? Re: IN> Vessels and Words. Re: IN> Re: How To Meet Beautiful Women Re: IN> Malakim and Demons (Re: Changing Choirs) Re: IN>Malakim Oaths Re: IN> Malakim and Demons (Re: Changing Choirs) Re: IN> Vehicular Vessels. Re: IN> How and Why Laurence Became the General of the Host Re: IN> Vessels and Words. Re: IN> Vessels and Words. Re: IN> Vehicular Vessels (was Vessels and Words) IN> Demons in Heaven (Re: Malakim and Demons) Re: IN> Vehicular Vessels. IN> Divine Religions IN> Pornographic/Erotic Words IN> Losing Superior status? IN> Inanimate Vessels Re: IN> Cry Havoc! Re: IN> Divine Religions Re: IN> Pornographic/Erotic Words Re: IN> How and Why Laurence Became the General of the Host Re: IN> Superior nicknames IN> Azazel: Superior Spirit of Death ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 09:39:45 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Vehicular Vessels (was Vessels and Words) Jo Hart wrote: > I can see so many ways for inanimate vessels to be misused. Just > imagine, if you have a secondary vessel that is something small > and harmless like a coin [...] Oo! Surely servitors of Marc and Mammon often need to be stealthy, and what better stealth vessel for either than coins! "Lucky pennies" and "bad pennies" respectively. > And let's not even get started on people who want an oil tanker as > their secondary vessel. Um. Surely the general need for secrecy would tend to discourage that. And if there's any additional expenditure of effort on the part of the Superior for sheer bulk... "You want to be a *what*?" Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 09:39:42 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Superior nicknames At 12:37 AM -0700 11/12/99, Tim Groth wrote: > > Now normally, there's a Heavenly and a Demonic side to every Word. But > >what > >about...Pornography? -Might- there be an Angel of Pornography? Under Eli, of > >-course-. >Well I suppose Pornography's Heavinly side would be the same as >Prostitutes. In that the Angel of Prostitutes would protect working girls >and try to get them off the street. That seems contrary to the Word-Bound principle, which is the promotion of one's Word. I could see the Angel of Courtesans working to decriminalize the profession, ensure the workers are treated as human beings and not meat, raise the status of the profession in the public eye, and so on.... As for the Angel of Pornography -- there's an Angel of Erotica in my game. I'd think the quasi-positive feel of 'erotica' better suits what said Angel would promote. - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 09:41:04 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: [FLUFF] Laurence & Marc (was Re: IN> Marc and Capitalism/Communism) At 2:33 AM -0800 11/12/99, Jo Hart wrote: >>From: Neel Krishnaswami > >> >>This comment just inspired the following bit of fluff. >> >>-*-*-*- >> >>MARC: All right Laurence, today I'm going to teach you about money. >> >>LAURENCE: Oh, goody, what's that? >> > > >I love it :) And I can so imagine it too... > > >jo >ps. Go on, I want to see him try to explain money to Novalis now ;) "No -- *don't* just *give* me the flowers! Don't just--" "But I can grow more, and you look like you want them so badly." "That's not the *point!*" - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 09:42:07 -0500 From: Whistling in the Dark Subject: Re: IN> Re: [FLUFF] Laurence & Marc At 1:39 PM +0000 11/12/99, Liam wrote: >From: Jo Hart > > > jo > > ps. Go on, I want to see him try to explain money to Novalis now ;) > >i expect it would includes the line "Money doesn't grow on trees" "But I thought this was made out of paper--" "Don't. Just don't." - -- Eric Alfred Burns | | now with web site content! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 16:11:44 +0100 (CET) From: sales@lanton.com Subject: IN> Re: How To Meet Beautiful Women Thanks Dodo, I guess I needed that; whatever THAT is. I'll resist the temptation to respond in kind. I'm tied to the ball and chain anyway. Sounds like you've got me pegged though. And all this time I thought I was coverin me tracts. Give me a call, at home, sometime when you're feeling better. 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Please contact your local phone company and ask them to remove 900 number call blocking. All information is copywrited and unauthorized thereof is punishable to the fullest extent of the law. - ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- by air-yb04.mail.gnn.com (v60.28) with ESMTP; Thu, 02 Sep 1999 16:35:07 -0400 Received: from mail.arc.dydio.mil (pony1.arc.thn.gov [143.232.44.201]) by rly-yb01.mx.aol.com (v60.28) with ESMTP; Thu, 02 Sep 1999 16:35:00 -0400 Received: from DMJM60 ([128.945.86.813])by mail.arc.dydio.mil (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA22175 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:34:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <5.2.0.55.19990902132502.009df6d0@mail.arc.dydio.mil>< X-Sender: balten@mail.arc.thn.gov X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 13:38:10 -0700 To: Brian Balten ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 10:10:03 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Vehicular Vessels. Ben Glickler wrote: > Since it's just like any other vessel, does a vehicular vessel > benefit from the Song of Healing? Or could this be an alternate > use of a Song of Machines? :-) I gather that the Song of Healing *already* works to fix machines, even when they're not vessels. If so, then it should surely work on machine vessels. That being so, I wouldn't allow Song of Machines to repair it. I'd rule that the celestial's soul "gets in the way." > Could someone use a Mechanic skill to fix the vehicular vessel, > perhaps pretending it were a Medicine roll? In the SF game I'm in, my character is an engineer and uses those skills to act like a doctor to the robot PC. I'd use the same logic here. > If so, since the vehicle has a better sense of what's wrong, would > a mechanic get a bonus? (Like a doctor working on a conscious > patient who can say what hurts versus an unconscious one who > cannot...) > > Or would you just use Medicine? No Medicine. Yes, I'd let the celestial be able to guide the mechanic to some degree. It might be difficult to find common ground. "I get that thick feeling in my carburator, you know?" "Can't say I really do." > Since it's just like any other vessel, does a vehicular vessel get a > body point back at the same rate, thus becoming self-healing? Um... Um... Yes. Since ordinary vessels aren't metabolizing, their ability to heal must be supernatural, so it could just as well apply to machine vessels. > Would someone get a bonus to their driving skill to drive a vehicular > vessel, or would the benefits and drawbacks of having a sentient car > balance each other out? (No, no, I wanted you to go THE OTHER WAY!) I'd say either one or the other is driving, but a sentient vehicle could override the driver at any time, thus allowing for "saves" against really bad rolls on Driving skill. (The car doesn't have a Driving skill, by the way; it just makes an Agility roll.) > Would a vehicular vessel need gas, or are they like human vessels, > not requiring food? No gas, oil or replacement of antifreeze needed. Also doesn't rust. Scratches to paint heal. It does need air, but then real cars do too, taken in through the grill, usually. > From where does a vehicular vessel see? A human vessel can be > blinded, blinding the celestial in it, correct? Do you just have to > smash the headlights on a vehicular vessel? I'd say a car vessel sees through its windows and mirrors. > If someone breaks in and steals the speakers, can the vehicular > vessel still talk? No, it can't talk, but the thief will have an interesting time of it, getting interactive cursing through those speakers, horn blaring, door slamming shut and locking itself, air bags going off, seat belts reaching out to strangle, or at least to bind while the car betakes itself to some friends with hands, or just decides now is the time to switch to the human vessel. > I'm assuming they could move any moveable part on their vessel, > opening doors, locks, moving seats forward, etc. Yes. I'd use a lot of the rules for Kyrio of Jean tricks. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 10:21:25 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Vehicular Vessels. By the way: I said how natural it would be for an Ophanite to want a vehicular vessel. Surely it is at least as natural for an Ophanite's *familar* to want a vehicular vessel, especially if it wants to fledge as an Ophanite itself some day. Don't you think an Ophanite with a motorcycle familiar is a kind of natural combo? Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 08:26:32 -0800 (PST) From: Wade Trupke Subject: Re: IN> Servitor Meetings From: Tim Groth >Nybbas - NBC head quarters No. FOX. When The World's Scariest Animals Attack Police Chases Caught On Tape. 7. Trupke (not to mention how they dragged out the last episode of "Greed") __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 11:11:41 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Vehicular Vessels. At 4:39 PM -0700 11/11/99, Ben Glickler wrote: >Would it require air? If so, how could you suffocate it? Would the car >need to keep its windows rolled down? ;) Cars have air intake, don't they? For the internal combustion stuff? That's why you can drown one if you drive it into water, right? >Oh. So you simply can't blind the car. I assume that the car only has a >field of vision as wide as a human's? Or can the car see everything around >it? Could you sneak up on a vehicular vessel? I'd assign it a field of vision as wide as a human's, and it would have to move its attention behind itself, just as a human would have to "glance behind" -- but it wouldn't have to move itself. >Can you stun a vehicular vessel? If so, how? Bringing a physical body down >by 25% of its total form does a lot to make it less likely to move around, >but smashing a car's windows and doors wouldn't stun it, would it? Might! >If a car is moving and is stunned, does it keep going, or does it let off >the pedal? Probably lets off the pedal -- just as a human would fall down. >If the car is reduced to 0 hit points, or is for some reason incapable of >action, could someone steal its tires? If so, what happens when the car >assumes celestial form? No damage is healed, but where do the tires go? Ummmmmmm....... I'd probably treat the lack of tires as corporeal damage... Sort of like cutting off a hand, only easier to replace. Maybe. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 11:32:20 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Malakim and Demons (Re: Changing Choirs) At 1:12 AM +0000 11/12/99, Liam wrote: >From: Elizabeth McCoy >> Does this make them demons? Angels say no. Demons say, "Sure! Makes >> sense to us! They're a lot like Habbalah... Only they're demons, don't >> hit us!" > >i see what you mean. i just thought that the "demons can't get into heaven" >thing kind of closed the issue Oh, but Malakim are demons with _divine dispensation_! Just ask the demons who are barred from Heaven. (Since when did cold hard facts ever deter a nice, satisfying rumor in Hell?) Besides, demons can get to Heaven. They just start getting the mother of all sunburns and make a lot of disturbance showing up, so all the new- fledged Malakim get these huge shiny anime eyes and go, "_Thank_ you, God! Thankyouthankyouthankyou for my Very First Demon!" (http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/errata/heaven-hell.html) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 16:51:22 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> Cry Havoc! From: Prodigal > Sorry, posting at theend of a long day when you only got about 4 hours of > sleep will do that sort of thing... *g* too true. i've noticed an uncanny inverse link between the number of spelling mistakes i make and the number of hours i sleep :) liam ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 16:56:24 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> Losing Superior status? From: > > > > andrealphus is, of course, Mr Loverman > > > JABBA! > nooo, jabba is haagenti :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 17:03:17 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> Vessels and Words. From: Earl Wajenberg > > And Kyrio of Jean tricks don't? > yeah, but they can only possess stuff that's already been built. i don't think even the japanese army is up to mech-tech yet :) > Actually, I was thinking more in terms of "Knight Rider." hmmm, Kitt as an elohite of judgement in a car vessel. it could work... liam ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 17:04:13 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> Re: How To Meet Beautiful Women From: > Thanks Dodo, I guess I needed that; whatever THAT is. > I'll resist the temptation to respond in kind. I'm tied to the > ball and chain anyway. ey? liam ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 12:13:05 -0500 From: Ben Aldred Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and Demons (Re: Changing Choirs) At 11:32 AM 11/12/99 -0500, you wrote: > >(http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/errata/heaven-hell.html) > okay these demons take soul hits equal to their forces plus the check digit. can a demon be destroyed in this manner? since the damage is coming from the true symphony I think it would be interesting if every time they lost a force from this sort of damage they had a chance of redeeming as the true symphony overwhelmes their own. I can't think of any mechanics other than a divine intervention roll but I would possibly do that in my own games. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 12:15:21 -0500 From: Ben Aldred Subject: Re: IN>Malakim Oaths >At 6:58 PM -0700 11/10/99, Tim Groth wrote: >>that oath was removed. In the APG it says Oaths can be removed by a >>Superior, just like it was Discord. > >Do note that in the GMG () I believe it says that the celestial >who's having the Discord removed has to cooperate -- or that it has >to be done by the Superior who holds that celestial's Heart. IIRC. > >So it's rather unlikely that a Malakite would even let a Prince _try_... > This brings to mind Vapula kidnapping Malakim for his own personal experimentation. possibly with enough trial and error he could find something to do it. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 16:49:59 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> Malakim and Demons (Re: Changing Choirs) From: Elizabeth McCoy > so all the new- > fledged Malakim get these huge shiny anime eyes and go, "_Thank_ you, > God! Thankyouthankyouthankyou for my Very First Demon!" *lol* i can see the malakim having a pole and stretchy rope set up ready to play "tetherdemon" if any should turn up liam ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 16:48:01 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> Vehicular Vessels. From: Elizabeth McCoy > Ummmmmmm....... I'd probably treat the lack of tires as corporeal damage... > Sort of like cutting off a hand, only easier to replace. Maybe. would you be able to add bits (like new tyres) to a mechanical vessel, in effect altering the form of the vessel, if the new bits were just ordinary human-made objects? on a similar vein, what happens if a celestial is taken to hospital (possibly while unconscious, or drugged, or something) and is given a transplant, or a skin graft. how do the pieces of "normal" human interact with the weirdy metabolism of the vessel they're attached to? liam ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 16:54:30 -0000 From: "Liam" Subject: Re: IN> How and Why Laurence Became the General of the Host From: Azrael > This brings the question why was Lucifer given the "Michael > treatment" > Was it because of Pride directly; > Lucifer: "Look at me I'm so beautiful, I'm so wonderful, God like's me the best > I'm just sooo good" > Michael: "..." WHAAAAMMMM!!!!! > or was it because of the idea's and intentions that he professed; > Lucifer: "I'm so good, I know more than God, I could run the Symphony better > than God, Why give human's free will etc.." > Michael: "..." WHAAAAMMMM!!!!! michael didn't attack lucifer for anything he thought or said. michael certainly didn't land the first blow. michael only attacked his (ex)friend lucifer when the latter tried to take over heaven with an army of rebels. i expect anyone else who tried the same would get the "michael treatment" (including uriel and laurence, probably, if god hadn't sorted out the whole purity crusade fiasco) liam ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 10:16:11 PST From: "Micheal Knight" Subject: Re: IN> Vessels and Words. >What about Kitt? O:> For bringing up my dark nemisis, I fear you must be exposed to my Malakite of Teletubbies. Micheal Knight (Not the bloody character from that evil show!) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 13:20:07 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Vessels and Words. Micheal Knight wrote: > For bringing up my dark nemisis, I fear you must be exposed to my > Malakite of Teletubbies. A servant of Christopher's, yes? Fubsie, the Black Teletubby. Carries a cute little squirt gun full of holy water... Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 12:37:58 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Vehicular Vessels (was Vessels and Words) From: Jo Hart > > And let's not even get started on people who want an oil tanker as their > secondary vessel. But the Calabite of Oil Spills is such a *nice* demon... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 14:29:38 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Demons in Heaven (Re: Malakim and Demons) At 12:13 PM -0500 11/12/99, Ben Aldred wrote: >At 11:32 AM 11/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >> >>(http://www.sjgames.com/in-nomine/errata/heaven-hell.html) >> >okay these demons take soul hits equal to their forces plus the check >digit. can a demon be destroyed in this manner? If they take enough damage, why, yes. Where does it say they _can't_? (By default, if you take soul hits, you can be destroyed. The only times when soul hits _won't_ cause the loss of Forces, it's specifically mentioned.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 14:31:31 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Vehicular Vessels. At 4:48 PM +0000 11/12/99, Liam wrote: >would you be able to add bits (like new tyres) to a mechanical vessel, in >effect altering the form of the vessel, if the new bits were just ordinary >human-made objects? Normal vessels can wear clothes, right? Same thing. >how do the pieces of "normal" human >interact with the weirdy metabolism of the vessel they're attached to? Any way the GM wants them to. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 13:27:47 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Divine Religions >>>that's not exactly true. surely the difference (in IN terms) is that "divine" religions actually worship the real God, in some form or another, while the pagan pantheons were based on human strengths and frailties<<< Actually (have I mentioned that this is in the GMG, which everyone should buy?), a divine religion is one which sends Essence to Heaven. Pagan religions send Essence to ethereals. Therefore, yes, a divine religion is one that doesn't feed ethereals. (Aside from the rare diabolical religions, but they don't last long.) And divine religions, for not-clearly-understood reasons, thus can't create ethereal Jesuses, Marys, or Muhammads. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 13:40:05 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Pornographic/Erotic Words >>>Now normally, there's a Heavenly and a Demonic side to every Word.<<< Not necessarily. >>>But what about...Pornography? -Might- there be an Angel of Pornography? Under Eli, of- -course-.<<< "Pornography" has inherently negative connotations; I doubt it would be an angelic Word. However, you know what they say: one celestial's porn is another's Erotica. And that's what the angelic counterpart to Pornography would be. - -David (yeah, I know, you're disappointed that this message wasn't anywhere near as spicy as the subject line ;)) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 13:31:30 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Losing Superior status? >>>i'd say that no word-bound ever gets to superior status unless their word is truly entrenched in the symphony, and not likely to weaken greatly<<< Not true, actually. Lucifer and the Seraphim Council *can* make anyone a Superior they want to. If Lucifer chose to create a Demon Prince of Toenail Fungus, he could. Whether such a Prince would last very long is questionable. But Furfur's Word, Hardcore, wasn't anywhere near Superior-level before Lucifer made him a Prince. Furfur's being elevated to a Prince gave his Word a big boost, but it was up to him to maintain and expand it. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 13:42:08 -0600 From: David Edelstein Subject: IN> Inanimate Vessels >>>I can see so many ways for inanimate vessels to be misused. Just imagine, if you have a secondary vessel that is something small and harmless like a coin - -- so you get chased down a dark alley, dash round a corner and switch vessels. Who's going to resonate a bit of rubbish, or a penny? Almost perfect disguise.<<< I'd treat such vessels as artifacts for purposes of being detected. - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 14:50:24 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Cry Havoc! >From: "Liam" >To: >Subject: Re: IN> Cry Havoc! >Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 16:58:03 -0000 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 > >From: Steel Angel >> But you CAN become a Prince if you're not! Hey, to the official folks >>who work for SJ Games, -is- Saminga canonically 'The Idiot Prince'? > >that's coz (on a few rare occasions) other DPs have manipulated events or >made life easy for powerful yet dumb types like sammy and haagenti to get >superior status. heaven is much more of a meritocracy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 11:45:52 -0800 (PST) From: David Barr Subject: Re: IN> Divine Religions - --- David Edelstein wrote: (...) > And divine religions, for not-clearly-understood reasons, thus > can't > create ethereal Jesuses, Marys, or Muhammads. > How, then, does this address the Worship of saints, and / or the intersection of Saints and Loas in Voodoo? At what point does a religon in IN go from being "Pagan" to "Divine"? (is this addressed in the GMG that everyone should buy (tm) [Disclaimer; my understanding of the role of saints in the Real World Roman Catholic Church is limited, and I am therefore intending this as a strictly GAME specific mechanic question(i have had bad reactions from some members of the RWRC Church upon any implication that they worship saints. A debate that I am trying to stop before it starts (and when it does, let me be the first to say; take it Off List))] ===== reply to my home address -> daiv@cruzio.com my mother once said that boy is stranger than a three toed barking frog - -Daiv __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 14:02:42 -0600 From: "Prodigal" Subject: Re: IN> Pornographic/Erotic Words From: David Edelstein > > -David (yeah, I know, you're disappointed that this message wasn't > anywhere near as spicy as the subject line ;)) And here I was, expecting something like Implants... *g* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 15:40:41 -0500 From: neel@cswv.com Subject: Re: IN> How and Why Laurence Became the General of the Host Gah. This is getting huge. Unless I get some really brilliant ideas, this will be my last post in this thread. From: Whistling in the Dark >> >>Michael is an *archangel*, and defined as the strongest *in mind* >>as well as body. His moral sense is most likely better developed >>than Gandhi's. Suggesting that he doesn't understand that the War >>is being fought over the souls of mankind is just plain stupid, >>imo. > >Intuitively? No, he doesn't. Not the way Laurence does. I think this might be a point of fundamental disagreement. For me, one of the chief attractions of IN is that it suggests the possibility that utterly different forms of life can know each other and extend compassion towards each other despite inconceivably vast differences, sort of anti-call-of-Cthulhu. Watering that down is diluting one of the chief reasons I like the game. >>I would suggest that in this case Michael is probably nearer >>the right than Yves. Free will is only meaningful if those >>actions have consequences -- and that means that it has to be >>possible to screw up badly enough to go to Hell for real. >> >>You make your choices and you take your lumps. > >Perfectly true, for humanity -- and absolutely Michael's point of view. > >But if 75% of all humanity makes the choice, takes their lump and >goes to Hell, Heaven *loses.* It's not enough to throw your hands up >and say "they have Free Will. If they damn themselves, that's their >own lookout," because that represents Lucifer having been *right.* >Humanity wasn't worth God's special attention. This is one of those points where the game-as-written lapses into incoherence. This makes no sense at all, no matter how you try to rationalize it. The problem is that the converse is an even more compelling argument. Why does what Lucifer thinks matter at all? From the angelic perspective it's worth helping humans simply because they are people too. Stopping demons falls out naturally because as a rule demons tend towards wrecking people's lives and generally being a pain in the butt. Helping mankind is an action that makes sense on its own terms and doesn't require further justification. Trying to turn one-upsmanship and score-keeping into some sort of holy destiny for Creation strikes me as simultaneously weird and dumb. It's like trying to use a toothpick to hold up a skyscraper when you have steel girders available. >That I find as difficult to swallow as you find Michael's moral sense >being lesser than Laurence's. Not lesser (or greater) -- /different/. Laurence has a finely honed and refined sense of honor, whereas Michael's moral sense is based on an intuitive sense of fellowship. Look in the main rulebook: Michael and his servitors always show compassion towards humans, even if it's as small as listening to an old soldier's war stories. Laurence and his angels obsess over ritual and honor, and their law is to offer service. I think to Michael, humans are these poor little dudes who live lives that are mostly nasty, brutish and short to begin with. And then demons show up and try to make the human condition even worse. That just pisses him off. No one should be allowed to bully and torture the weak and the helpless, and that's truth like the color of the sky. Both his actions and his responses are unforced: he knows without seeking that he must extend compassion and protection to the other. It's seeing with the eyes of an artist -- he sees reality without preconception and acts based on the immanent moral order he sees. It's different for Laurence. He knows evil, intimately and personally. His resonance shows him what lurks in the hearts of men, and he knows how close and tempting evil is through the difficulty of obeying his own oaths. His knowledge of frailty is what shapes Laurence's sense of empathy: he sees others and thinks how hard it must be for them. That's where the rituals and the emphasis on service and hierarchy come from. He bows his head because he knows he's proud; he never acts without counsel because he knows he errs; and he draws his blade at the command of others so his wrath will not sully it. Laurence is an excellent choice to reform the angelic society that produced Uriel. Or Eli, for that matter. >So yes, it's always the individual human's choice -- but if Michael >leads the charge and levels New Delhi to take out Baal's Fourth >Irregulars, and in the process shocks and horrifies thousands who >turn towards Selfishness and Fate because that's the easiest way to >survive... Heaven loses. Do you really think that a Seraph (which can't lie to itself without dissonance) is going to be able to honestly tell itself "I serve a benevolent and just God" and nuke cities wholesale? >I think it's safe to say Michael literally *can't* conceive of losing >a fight. That would be a denial of the Truth as he knows it. > >Which in turn leads to his Dissonance condition. Of *course* you >can't retreat from battle -- that implies you could lose, and Michael >doesn't understand that. No, I don't think that works as a rationale for Michael's dissonance condition. It can certainly work for Michael himself, but not for his Servitors. Any of his Servitors can certainly be beaten, but they still never retreat. I think that Michael's dissonance condition is the result of whatever the opposite of existential despair is. Suppose that God is evil and uncaring, that Hell is stronger, that all your efforts to do good will fail and quickly be forgotten. Supposing all that, does it still make sense to fight for right? I think most angels of War wouldn't hesitate to say yes. Now, as it happens, God is just and benevolent, evil will someday be defeated, and doing good will help and can inspire others to the fight as well. If it made sense to fight for justice even in the worst possible case, how much more sense does it make in reality? Can giving up ever be justified? A Mercurian of War IMC explained it like this: "While there's life, there's hope. And in the Lord is eternal life, so we can never give ground." >And neither can it overtake the Sword in *its* baliwack. > >Look at the significance of Michael defeating Laurence in hand >combat. Michael is the supreme warrior. The greatest hand-fighter >ever crafted by God. But the Sword is not merely a symbol of >fighting. The Sword is a symbol of knightly virtue, of honor, and of >chivalry. It is not the pure application of War to the ends of War, >but the application of force in the name of higher ideals. > >Michael isn't capable of those things, because Michael is too good a >*warrior.* Michael would have no problem cutting a defenseless man >in half if it brought him closer to his objective. I mostly agree with you about Laurence, but not about Michael. Michael isn't a force of pure destruction -- he gives his Servitors some of the most potent noncombat attunements in the game. (Eg., the Mercurian of War attunement) Michael received his word for beating Lucifer and driving him out of Heaven -- his word of War represents the destruction of evil and the protection of the righteous. The difference is that Laurence uses force for the creation and protection of society. So for Laurence, the structure of the law is of central importance. It's -the- tool for taking people with wildly different interests and perspectives and making sure they can live justly and without harming each other. He values civilization as a way of emulating the Trinity; different and distinct aspects come together in a greater whole. Michael as a Seraph just sees the right thing and does it, without any further thought. If there are laws (angelic or mortal) in the way, he just ignores them. After all, morality is part of the structure of Creation; so if it causes problems for society, then civilization must give way. (This is one of the reasons he gets along well with Janus and Jordi, too.) Kind of like a Tolstoyan anarchist, only minus the pacifism. If you want to reform a society, then Laurence is undoubtedly the better choice. But asking whether Laurence's moral code is better than Michael's is kind of like asking whether red is taller than blue. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswv.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 14:29:44 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Superior nicknames >i wouldn't have thought something like this could exist. when you take on a >word, you take on the essence of that word's meaning. i don't think you can >then devote yourself to destroying it. if you wanted to do that, you'd have >to take it as part of the word itself (like "the malakite of >anti-pornography") Yeah but its easier to say Malakite of Pornography, and it sounds better. Its mostly for Words that sound stupid, like my example of the Angel of Serial Killers. Technically its the Angel of Punishing Serial Killers, but that's much to long and doesn't sound as good and considering that there a servitor of Gabriel most people figure it out. Basicly my point is that the celestial tongues can (IMO) express perfect oppisites and the like. In addition since the celestial tongues are based around the Symphony that oposing themses can exist with in it. There for you can have a Word that captures a theme opposing something that has an english word that corrisponds with it. Capturing the pure essence of punishing serial killers, helping get prositutes off the street and the like are not Words that are captured well in english and therefor are (as far as humans are concerned) antagonist Words. While in the celestial tongue its obvious that its something totally different. My whole point with Antagonist Words is that a celestials actual Word is't in english or any other human language. However we have to write them down that why and thus they seem to be working in the oppisite convention when their actually not. It first came up IMC when a player who was a soldier was trying to understand his angelic patrons Word. He figured that since the angel tried to stop serial killers that was his Word, it just worked in the reverse way. And thus antaognistic Words were born. The Malakite is still confused as to why his servitor can't understand that's exactly what he's not. I do agree that erotica is probably the angelic equivellent of pornography. I still stand by the fact that the three princes behind porn and the demo nof pornography would -womp- said angel without bating an eye. I'd imagine all of Laurences servitors who are heavily assosiated with the Church would work against pornography or at least help support their mortal allies in such causes. And I'd definetly say the angel of free speach (badly translated from Angelic for NOT censorship) would have a big beef with them for it. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 16:28:16 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: IN> Azazel: Superior Spirit of Death Azazel, Superior Spirit of Death "Death is the great equalizer." === Then he shall take the two goats, and set them before the LORD at the door of the tent of meeting; and Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats, one lot for the LORD and the other lot for Azazel. And Aaron shall present the goat on which the lot fell for the LORD, and offer it as a sin offering; but the goat on which the lot fell for Azazel shall be presented alive before the LORD to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness to Azazel. -- Leviticus 16:7-10 The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. ... They had as king over them, the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon. -- Revelation 9:1,11 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time. -- Revelation 20:1-3 === Anchor Balseraph: "And now, Nybbas News Network brings you our exclusive interview with Azazel, the newly crowned Princess of Death. We now join our ace investigative reporter Hackenflast, in Abaddon." Cut to view of an Impudite in an Armani suit, looking Solemn. Behind him is a dimly lit hall in Gothic architecture, composed of bumpy white things, presumably bones. Miscellaneous demons and damned souls are hithering and thithering, but a number of them are going over the architecture with measuring tapes, taking notes on clip boards. A lot of them look scared (very normal in Hell), but even more look bewildered (not that abnormal) and a few even look hopeful (very odd). Hackenflast: "Thank you, Toadpipe. Your Highnesses, your disgraces, my thorns, shadies and gentledevils, and damned scum everywhere, it is my great honor to introduce the newest horn in Hell's crown, Azazel, Lilite Princess of Death." The Shedite holding the camera (*and* the lights *and* the mike boom) squelches forward and around a corner. Hackenflast tries to back up suavely, but trips over the bumpy floor and has to flap his wings to keep his balance. The corner turn reveals a much grander hallway, filled with very still demons, centered on a large, pale throne. A black goat sits on it. As the camera approaches, leaving the Impudite behind for the moment, the goat rises and turns into a skeleton in a black robe. It comes down the steps and gives a gracious nod, simultaneously morphing into a cute young woman in a black evening gown and an even darker nimbus, her hair and eyes shiny black, her skin stark white. She smiles. Very warmly. Hackenflast, oiling back into the frame: "Your Highness, thank you so much for granting this interview." Azazel: "Not at all. I want to make my position clear." (A balseraph in the crowd behind her is seen to roll all of its eyes.) "Ask your questions" Hackenflast: "Your Highness, this is an enormous surprise to the infernal public, of course. Would you be willing to tell us anything about how you acceeded to the Word of Death?" Azazel (smiles): "I'd be happy to. I'll even tell you the trick, since it'll never work again. I inherited the Word from Saminga. He left it to me in his Last Will and Testament. With the last of his will, actually..." Hackenflast: "So Saminga is-- is indeed--?" Azazel: "Dead. By suicide." (Again the smile.) Hackenflast: "And can Your Highness give any motive for this suicide?" Azazel: "Saminga was particularly wary, you know, of any of his Servitors growing too powerful. I am a Free Lilite, but I often did work for him. He often sent me to reduce the power of his minions. In many cases of Wordbound death-demons, I did so by introducing them to a new vice: Force-burning. They can increase their Word Forces by deliberately destroying one of their other Forces, thus consumately serving their Word. In effect, they convert a non-Word Force into a Word Forces." Hackenflast: "But how can a mere demon do that? Doesn't that take the intervention of--" Azazel: "A Superior. Yes. Saminga himself. I persuaded his, um, overgrown Wordbound into coming to him voluntarily, to have their Forces burned. Rearranged, really. They lost something, yes, but they gained in Word-power, and in their Master's favor. Those that he didn't decide to destroy outright, of course." Hackenflast: "And Saminga fell victim to this himself?" Azazel (purrs): "Mm-hm. Did I mention that the experience is ecstatic? For a Death-worded. Might also work for Gluttony. Maybe even Fire. Think about it, kids.... But, yes, old Saminga got in the habit of occasionally sawing off one of his own Forces and giggling as he watched his Word grow. I think people have noticed that, for instance, in recent years, his Ethereal powers weren't all you might expect in a Prince.... As his judgement weakened, he began to rely on me more. Finally, he was almost all Word, just one *leeettle* speck of Celestial Force left. He *so* wanted to be *all* Word, nothing but his Word -- think about *that*, all my peers out there. But a Word's not a Word if there's no one to hold it. So I persuaded him, as his last act, as he became nothing but Word, to give himself to me. "And here I am." Hackenflast (swallows drily, twice, before getting out): "And Lucifer has confirmed this ... final gift?" Azazel (shrugs): "We've never met." Hackenflast (wobbles visibly): "Would you-- Would Your Highness care to tell our viewers about your background?" Azazel: "Sure. As I said, I'm a Free. I worked off all my birth geases a long, long time ago. I've stayed in the black, geas-wise, for most of the time since, and I've never, *never* taken service with any Prince, though I have, over the millenia, done jobs for almost all of them. That kept the Game off my neck. Not that they haven't hastled me about once a decade, or more. (Hi, out there, Asmodeus!) I suppose--" (World-weary sigh.) "--it's because I also took jobs for ethereals and for Heaven. But, hey, Free is Free. Hit jobs, mostly. That made it natural that a lot of my work was for Saminga. And I was *so* reliable. And not even Worded. Made him feel safe. And I want all of *you* to feel safe, too. Rest assured, I'm even *more* reliable than ever!" (She blows a kiss at the camera. There's a burst of static.) (Straightens and smiles brightly into the camera.) "And now for the product pitch: Death is under new management. It's clean, quick, and efficient. It's not about rot anymore; it's about results. And it's for hire. "Do you have people standing in your way? We'll move them aside. Just come in and talk about the price. "Or are you at the end of your rope? After all, you're in Hell! Well, we can make your second death completely painless, even ecstatic. Deutero-euthanasia! Your ticket out of an eternity of misery! Even if you're a shut-in, our agents will be contacting you. So have hope! (Sorry, Beleth.) "And, last, but not least, I'm hiring." (Beams into the camera.) Hackenflast: "Th-th-thank you, Your Highness." Azazel: "Sure. Come by, when it gets to be too much." === Azazel (whose name means either "goat-god" or simply "removal") is a very old demon, one of the first Lilim created by Lilith, and far older than the late Saminga. She even predates much of the Principality system in Hell. She has long been a poster-demon for Free Lilim, a creditor, not a debtor, so Free she even deals with Heaven, even to the point of going 50-50 with God and getting a yearly goat sacrificed to her by divine decree -- said goat to run free in the wilderness. Asmodeus and Dominic would both like to label Azazel as a Gray Renegade, and would have offed her long ago, except that (1) on the infernal side, she's a Free and thus has no Superior to be Renegade *from* (certainly not Lilith, who's quite pleased with her), and (2) on the heavenly side, she apparently has that "in" with God or at least the Seraphim Council, probably for services rendered in the way of some smiting, way back when. Now, as just described, Azazel has supplanted Saminga. The story she told the Media demons was the truth, as far as it went. But of course only the Seraphim Council and Lucifer can go around handing out Words. Them and One other. Azazel was not sure her seduction of Saminga would really win the Word of Death for her, but she was willing to gamble, since at least she would rid the universe of Saminga, whom Azazel hated for all the usual reasons people hated Saminga. At the crucial moment, Azazel was quite unable to absorb Saminga's Word Forces, even with the cooperation of the deceasing Prince. But there was an Intervention. A tall shadow stepped out of the other darkness and Azazel faced Azrael, the Outcast Grigori Archangel of Death, who offered her a partnership. Azazel accepted. Lucifer is NOT pleased. He knows, of course, that *he* didn't hand Saminga's Word to Azazel, though he has no idea how she got that Word. And he knows how pale a shade of black Azazel seemed to be. He has considered the possibilities that God or the Seraphim Council gave her the Word, or that she actually did get it from Saminga on her own, by her own methods. All of these possibilities are bad news, but the last would be the least bad. As far as Lucifer's concerned, Azazel is a Renegade now, but he hasn't told anyone else. He doesn't want it known that there can *be* Renegade Princes. He may tell Kronos and Asmodeus soon, but it may be a long time before the information travels any further. Or he may let everyone think this is a Cunning Plan of his own. That might be safer, and even useful in keeping the other Princes off balance. *Sigh.* Saminga was *so* easy to control. Lucifer also knows quite well about the prophecy in Revelation, about the Abaddon angel that will imprison him in the Abyss for a thousand years, between Armageddon and the Last Judgement. Meanwhile, none of the other Princes are at all happy about Azazel going poaching among their damned souls with offers of celestial euthanasia, or stealing away their servitors, though some find her a distinct improvement over Saminga in other ways. Azazel has made lots of changes in Abaddon. First of all, she's remodeling that palace of bones into something much more modernistic, in obsidian. And Abaddon has begun *sinking*, or something. There are cliffs at the boundaries, getting higher all the time. Probably people will start calling it "the Abyss" soon. At the bottom, Abaddon has become an endless desert of silver sand. The damned huddle on it or wander over it, each totally alone, never coming in sight of another human soul. Sometimes, they encounter demons; if they are lucky, it's one of Azazel's mercy killers, with an offer of oblivion (which they can take or leave). Azazel's also changing how Abaddon runs. She's out of the Undead business, for one thing. She doesn't stop others from making them, but she won't strip-mine Forces out of damned souls for grafting into new Undead. When Saminga's supply of extra Forces is gone, that'll be it. Any new Undead won't get that extra Force at their creation. Instead, Azazel harvests forces by Second Death, her specialty celestial euthanasia, offered to damned souls (and demons) who would rather cease to be than continue in Hell. She keeps all the resultant Forces. She also gets the Forces from the soul-killed victims of her hit demons. These Forces she uses to make more servitors. Like most Lilim, she doesn't like Shedim, and so far hasn't made any. Rumors are already circulating that this first Lilite Demon Princess has made -- or at least has tried to make -- her own Lilim, duplicating her mother's trick. Both versions of the rumor remain unconfirmed. DISSONANCE CONDITION It is dissonant for Death servitors to attempt a soul-kill on the Corporeal or Ethereal planes. BAND ATTUNEMENTS Azazel appears to be re-tuning Saminga's old servitors and making new ones on a highly individualized basis. Perhaps she is still experimenting. There are no set Band attunements yet. SERVITOR ATTUNEMENTS Most of Azazel's servitors have one or more of three jobs: mercy killers, hit artists, or "coroners." None of them cause Disturbance when they kill. Mercy Killers Mercy killers are the ones who offer second death to the despairing, almost always in Hell, though they *could* dismantle a soul on Earth. Since they must infiltrate the domains of other Princes, who don't *want* their Essence-generating vicitms killed, they must be consumate sneaks, and have the Songs and skills necessary for that task. Each also has an artifact made by Azazel or one of her trained crafters, which delivers an ecstatic celestial death and stores the Forces within itself. This artifact is almost always in the form of a weapon. The mercy killer then returns to Abaddon and delivers the Forces to Azazel. Hit Artists Hit artists have similar skills and do the same thing, only their victims are not volunteers. Also, hit artists work for hire, getting paid in geases, Essence, money, or whatever. It is perfectly according to Hoyle (or according to Azazel) to spare a victim who offers you better pay to do so. However, hit artists must split their pay with Azazel 50-50 or suffer dissonance (and her displeasure). The same applies to any mercy killers who get paid for their services. Hit artists only do corporeal kills on the Corporeal Plane, and only soul-kills on the Celestial Plane, Hell. Attempting soul-kills on the Corporeal Plane produces dissonance. This looks like it might be a sort of natural law for her new spin of the Word of Death (or so Azazel hopes), but it's really because Azazel is, after all, on a secret mission for God. Coroners The so-called "coroners" practice a sort of inverted Rite, called Death Certificate. Other Rites get Essence from the Superior. Coroners generate two points of Essence by performing their Death Certificate Rite at the corporeal death of an animal or person. Physically, this usually amounts to noting the death in a little black book, e.g.: Mrs. Emma Parkins, 87, 4411 Huguenot-Velloon Drive, Empheusa, California, 2001/04/15, 22:07, heart failure or raccoon, U.S. Hwy 93, near exit 2, 2001/05/01, around midnight, roadkill This is in addition to the diffuse Essence that the natural processes of death channel through Azazel's Tethers from the corporeal realm. Coroners get to keep one of the two Essence points for themselves, but if they try to keep the other, they get dissonance. It is entirely up to the individual coroner, whether or not they cause the death in question. They have Songs for divining upcoming likely deaths and for invisibility. Azazel and Azrael intend, as their long-range plan, that Abaddon shall sink ever deeper, away from the rest of Hell, until it becomes a third celestial domain, a neutral black hole, a realm of pure removal. If they are clever and lucky (and blessed?), it will happen gradually, and be accomplished before Lucifer realizes. Then Abaddon becomes a refuge for the Grigori and other Outcasts, and for any Renegade demons who want to come. And the two Spirits of Death settle down to wait, preparing for the day when Abaddon becomes Lucifer's prison. DISTINCTIONS Azazel has not given out any distinctions yet. POLITICS Heaven and the rest of Hell are surprised, of course. Both have a wait-and-see attitude. Both tend toward cautious optimism. Blandine: "Less horror attached to death, that's clearly good. But not if it makes death more attractive." David: "She's weakened the cohesion of Hell. Good. And it doesn't look like she'll be any more trouble than Saminga. Maybe less." Dominic: "The Word of Death was run by something stupid and repulsive. Now the Word-holder is clever and seductive. We should be wary and not put excess weight on her old bargain with God, which I never understood." Eli: "Well, *that* was creative. Cool move. Cool lady. I hope she can keep her cool down there." Gabriel: "The star takes up the key. The locust king is crowned." Janus: "What a gas! She conned Saminga out of his Word and his life! She'll clearly shake things up down there. That's gotta be good." Jean: "It will be interesting to see if she can make her own Lilim." Jordi: "She's one of the few who know how to accept an animal sacrifice. I don't care if her servitors draw Essence from tallying animal deaths, so long as they don't cause them." Laurence: "She was the most honorable demon I ever knew. I hope some of that survives her elevation." Marc: "A business-woman, clearly. Usually, a clever opponent is worse than a stupid one, but in this case, we may have an easier time of it, since she seems to lack Saminga's blind malice." Michael: "We'll face weaker undead and Hell will have a higher rate of soul mortality. That much is an improvement." Novalis: "Never a friend of peace. But at least she can be bought off." Yves: [No comment.] Andrealphus: "At *last* we are rid of that disgusting Shedite! And did you notice how she did it? You can clearly see my training at work there. But her mercy killers better not try selling their death-ecstasy here in Shal-Mari." Asmodeus: "So the Renegade has returned to us, in an elegant move. Or has she? Any new Prince must be thoroughly investigated, but this one even more so." Baal: "Saminga supported my Word. But as long as Azazel does the same, I will accept her just as readily. She could clearly make a better ally if she chooses to. But let's see her ferocity first. Let her mercy killers come; they will only weed out the ones with no stomach for fighting." Beleth: "The Word of Death run intelligently. Now *that's* scary." Belial: "She wants to steal my fuel! You think I'm gonna put up with that?! And as for burning chunks of myself to stoke up my Word, you think I'm gonna fall for-- Hm..." Haagenti: "She wants to eat my lunch! You think I'm gonna put up with that?! And as for eating chunks of myself to fatten up my Word, you think I'm gonna fall for-- Hm..." Kobal: "What an exit for old Sammy! I like this kid's style. Just as long as she doesn't try to cut into my audience share." Kronos: "The rotting idiot has met his Fate. Good riddance. Clearly, this one knows how to draw victims to herself. She could be very useful, if she'll exert herself." Lilith: "You go, girl! The first Daughter Princess! About time!" Malphas: "Her hit artists are an excellent tool for the Word of Factions. Her mercy killers-- what place has mercy here?" Nybbas: "Finally! I've said for *centuries* that Death could be given more glamour, and it looks like this girl can do it. As for her mercy killers, I'm not worried; I have my audience sewed up." Valefor: "What a gas! She conned Saminga out of his Word and his life! But if she tries to run her scams on my turf, I'm ready for her." Vapula: "A facinating display of technique. As for all the fuss about mercy killers -- tut! I have to do the same in my dissection studies and tests to destruction. There are always more damned, and it's no more than they deserve." RITES The inverted Coroner rite, part of the Coroner attunement. See above. CHANCE TO SUMMON: 4 SUMMONING MODIFIERS: +1: a death in progress +2: a Coroner rite in progress +3: an offer of 10 or more Essence +4: an offer of 3 or more Forces (*not* necessarily your own, though those will do...) +5: an offer of a recruit ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1409 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.