From owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Fri Nov 19 15:41:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from lists.io.com (lists.io.com [199.170.88.15]) by pyramid.sjgames.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA07725 for ; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 15:41:53 -0600 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.1a) id PAA17304 for in_nomine-digest-outgoing; Fri, 19 Nov 1999 15:37:20 -0600 Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 15:37:20 -0600 Message-Id: <199911192137.PAA17304@lists.io.com> From: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com (in_nomine-digest) To: in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Subject: in_nomine-digest V1 #1423 Reply-To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Sender: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Errors-To: owner-in_nomine-digest@lists.io.com Precedence: bulk in_nomine-digest Friday, November 19 1999 Volume 01 : Number 1423 In this digest: Re: IN> Bright Bands Re: IN> Bright Bands Re: IN> Shedite/Kyrio question Re: IN> Impudite Resonance? Re: IN> Janus' Foil Re: IN> Impudite Resonance? Re: Adventures (was IN> How and Why Laurence Became the General of the Host) IN> H e l p Ordering INS/MV in German? re: IN> One Tough Taker IN> Redmeptions (was Bright Shedim) Re: IN> Re: Adventures Re: IN> Bright Bands IN> The Arcane Art of IN Plurals (Re: Bright Bands) IN> Stereotypes (Re: Impudite Resonance?) RE: IN> Janus' Foil Re: Adventures (was IN> How and Why Laurence Became the General of the Host) Re: IN> Bright Bands Re: IN> Re: Adventures Re: IN> Shedite/Kyrio question Re: IN> Stereotypes (Re: Impudite Resonance?) Re: IN> Bright Shedim Re: IN> Bright Shedim Re: IN> Re: Adventures Re: IN> Bright Shedim re: IN> One Tough Taker IN> Remnants and Braindead Humans (Re: Shedite/Kyrio question) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 11:36:22 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Bright Bands >Ehrbar wrote: >> quickly yo-yo, because of their Dissonance conditions. If a "bright >> Shedim" manifests, they are immediately Force-stripped into a reliever <*TWITCH*> ShedITE. ShedITE. A ShedITE. Two (or more) ShedIM. Even for non-canon Choirs, unless you want my curse upon thee. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 11:31:42 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: IN> Bright Bands Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > <*TWITCH*> > > ShedITE. ShedITE. > > A ShedITE. Two (or more) ShedIM. Lilite? Can I put in a bid for "one Lilite" instead of "one Lilim"? I've been twitching about that one for a long time now. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 11:57:46 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Shedite/Kyrio question At 10:01 AM -0500 11/18/99, John Karakash wrote: >Steel Angel wrote: >> >> Quick question...what about the brain dead of those in comas? How do you >> corrupt that? Do you start where the resident mind left off? How can you >> harm someone like that easily? Just wondering. While I'm at it, how about >> other Resonances like Impudites and Malakim? > > > The truly brain-dead are 'gone' and generate >no essence, can't be resonated (except as a just a >body) for information, etc. I'm not so sure about this -- I'd be more inclined to treat them in similiar ways to a celestial Remnant. If they are really and truly GONE, no soul home, etc., then Perception-based resonances will naturally not work on them. But they'd still generate Essence. Shedim might well not be able to _corrupt_ them, either -- no soul is there. It's just the body. (Shedim of Malphas and the Game would probably be able to possess them just fine, though?) If they can't corrupt the host, they start getting dissonant. Also, if the mind is GONE, there will be no memories or personality for the Shedite to dig through. Hm. For that matter, if there's enough corporeal damage, it's possible that even a Shedite couldn't animate the thing. > Basically, the resonances (and the spell) SONG! No spells! >of possession are designed to take over _functional_ >hosts. Ones so badly damaged that the mortal >occupants are gone are like ones that are damaged >so much that the heart stops working. If you get >an odd situation where the body is fine (for >example the soul is trapped elsewhere), then they >would probably work. > I might just be inclined to say, "It's the GM's option about whether the body is too badly damaged to possess, and what bad effects it might have." There are too many kinds of brain-damage to make sweeping statements with real accuracy of what's likely to happen. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 11:55:39 -0500 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> Impudite Resonance? Earl Wajenberg wrote: > > Leath Sheales wrote: > > > Honestly, how many players do you have that like to play > > stereotypical characters? You may have a lot, but the groups I > > have seen always want their characters to be something a little > > different. > > Amen. Makes one wonder why game designers bother to develop > character classes / archetypes / templates at all. Except that > it gives players something to play AGAINST. Still, if you play against the strengths of a class/race/choir/band/society/etc/ you can't reasonable expect that you will be equally efficient. I _love_ to play against stereotype... if the game system happens to support it easily, so mote it be. If not, I am consciously choosing a character that is less 'capable' to support my concept. [See end of post for mostly off-topic example.] In fact, this works for campaigns as well. I had a post awhile ago on how to abuse canon to make interesting campaigns (not that people aren't doing that already) in response to some people that were very annoyed at how much canon there is. ;) [I was playing AD&D recently using the 'roll and assign' method of character generation. I was going to make a mage and happened to roll an 18. Just for fun, I put it in Strength, and made up a gnome Fighter/Illusionist. For the first time ever, I saw someone roll an honest '00' for Strength. =) Talk about blown expectations when that 'wizard' whacks you a good one!] - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 12:06:13 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Janus' Foil At 12:20 PM -0700 11/18/99, EDG wrote: >How is it "obvious" that Beelzebub died? The only reference /I/ can find >to him is in the IPG, where it lists him as a Famous Djinn (I ignored this >for purposes of Christopher), and the INcyclopedia lists him among the >living Superiors. It does? It shouldn't. In the GMG, it says that he was toasted by Uriel in 455 AD. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 11:58:44 -0500 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> Impudite Resonance? Douglas Muir wrote: > > >In fact, it is my general role-playing experience that players > >barely get into a game setting before they want to push its > >envelope. They want to play emotional Vulcans or compassionate > >devils or oozing slime from another dimension who is, nonetheless, > >a suave and cool guy, etc. > > Point! This matches my experience, too. It ain't _always_ true, but > there's at least one in every gaming group ("Well, yeah he's an assassin, > but he's not _really_ evil...") Bwa-ha-ha-ha! My friend had a VERY fun VtM campaign where the ground rules were, "Yes you are vampires and you are, in fact, evil. Have fun!" He threw out the Humanity attribute and let us roleplay naturally. Sure, one or two tried to stay close to their human 'roots', but the rest ended up playing very naturally and reasonably. (IMO, being a vampire in that universe can be a LOT like being a heroin addict with super-powers. And there's so MUCH heroin walking around...) - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 12:02:59 -0500 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: Adventures (was IN> How and Why Laurence Became the General of the Host) Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Nobody wants to accidentally develop the Role of Wanted Killer, either... There's a fun concept! Springing Roles on people that they didn't know they had... "Whaddya mean my Role is 'That stupid jerk who lives at the end of the hallway who is up at all hours and has really weird friends'?" - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 12:17:06 -0500 From: AmadanSJG@compuserve.com (by way of Elizabeth McCoy) Subject: IN> H e l p Ordering INS/MV in German? (Yeesh. "Help" in the Subject is an admin-bounce... Anyone know a way where I can set admin bouncing on only a _few_ keywords? --Beth) - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 18:21:47 -0600 From: AmadanSJG@compuserve.com Subject: Help Ordering INS/MV in German? Sprechen Sie Deutsch? Is anyone on this list fluent in German? I've decided to go ahead and try to obtain the original INS/MV books. However, I want the German translation, since Ich kann ein bischen Deutsch lesen (a very small bischen, so please don't e-mail me in German!), mais je ne parle pas Francais. So I went to check out Amazon.de, and found INS/MV there, and I can read enough German to figure out how to enter all the info to order it. But I could not (1) verify that the set I'd be ordering would indeed be the German translation, and not an imported French set, or (2) Figure out what the shipping costs to the U.S. would be. So if anyone is willing to help me out on this, I'd be grateful. (And if anyone knows an even better way to get the German INS/MV set, I'd be even more grateful!) Thanks, - -David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 11:11:47 -0600 From: Michael Mihallik Subject: re: IN> One Tough Taker This is an elegant bit of character creation. If you don't mind, I'd like to borrow him and spring him on an annoying Malakite of the Sword in my game (tee hee). Imagine his Choirmates' response when he shows up in Heaven sans Vessel and has to explain what happened... Malakite (glumly): Hey guys. Choirmate: Hey. What are you doing topside? Malakite (even more glumly): Got my butt kicked... bad. Choirmate: Happens sometimes. Was it a Calabite or a Djinn? Malakite (wincing): Niether. Choirmate: A Balseraph? A Habbalite? A Shedite? I hate Shedim... Malakite (eyes fixed firmly on the floor): Nope. Choirmate (resonates, snorts once and begins laughing uproariously): An Impudite?! What did he use... harsh language? At least tell me that he had a bunch of forces up on you. Malakite (truly depressed now): Nope. Choirmate: BWAHAHAHAHA! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 12:19:39 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: IN> Redmeptions (was Bright Shedim) >> This is in addition to >> their original dissonance condition, so any Bright Shedite will >> accumulate at least one note of dissonance a day. Few last more than a >> few weeks to a couple of months before Discord destroys them. > >Bingo. One would like to think that Gabriel (or Soldekai) and >David detail cherubs to track these guys and haul them in at >the last minute for an emergency-room try at Redemption. >("Everybody stand clear!" Zot!) Nice image. "Essence pressure dropping!" "I can't get a Will reading! We're losing him!" "No! No! Don't you die on me, demon!" ZOT! Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 12:29:37 -0500 From: neel@cswv.com Subject: Re: IN> Re: Adventures Douglas Muir wrote: > >>It's doubly problematic when a supposedly-brilliant archangel embarks >>a just plain dumb plan. (Fall of the Malakim was the worst -- David's >>true word was revealed to be "dumb as a bag of rocks" rather than stone.) > >But "Fall of the Malakim", though seriously troubled, works MUCH better >when played in tandem with the excellent "Final Trumpet". A lot of what >people don't like in FotM is lead-in and backstory for FT. Frex, when you >GM it, you'll find that it will tend to leave players confused, upset, and >apprehensive... troublesome in a stand-alone adventure, but perfectly >appropriate when the next step is confronting the Apocalypse. My problems with FoTM have nothing to do with leaving the PCs frightened, confused, and wondering about the role of God in an malign universe. They have to do with the fact that there are so many logical holes in the setting that they will toast the players' suspension of disbelief. For example: LA is supposed to be a city so thoroughly controlled by demons that they can successfully demand that any angel that enters must show up and pay homage to the demons. Yet no credible mechanism for enforcing this demand is given beyond a mention of three low-level demons watching LAX. Leaving aside the question of how to identify celestials, or even how three demons can monitor a hundred thousand passengers a day, there's no mention of what to do when characters drive into the city. Especially given how closely freeways and automobiles are tied into the mythology of Los Angeles, this is simply inexcusable. As written Heaven could be running daily bus trips into LA and the demons would be none the wiser. It's one thing to say that for complicated strategic reasons that infernal (or angelic) dominance exists, but there needs to be clear explanations of what the mechanisms that maintain that balance are. Otherwise the GM has no response when the players try to do something that upsets that balance. - -- Neel Krishnaswami neelk@cswv.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 12:38:59 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: Re: IN> Bright Bands At 11:44 PM -0800 11/19/99, Steel Angel wrote: >A Shedite 'Terror Trooper' or something. [...] take >some Vessel levels (I -think- they correspond to extra HP, least that's >how I've seen it run) (It's not canon, though it's probably a reasonable enough house-rule to give them extra hits.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 12:43:04 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> The Arcane Art of IN Plurals (Re: Bright Bands) At 11:31 AM -0500 11/19/99, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > >> <*TWITCH*> >> >> ShedITE. ShedITE. >> >> A ShedITE. Two (or more) ShedIM. >Lilite? Can I put in a bid for "one Lilite" instead of "one Lilim"? >I've been twitching about that one for a long time now. No, sorry, no-can-do. You see, it may be wrong, but it's _consistant_. You don't see Lilites, you don't see Lilims. The Stylesheet hath but one singular and one plural for them, and it's the same word. (Mind, rumor in Hell says it's because all Lilim are the same Lilim, and are self-aware fragments of Lilith herself, who is really as mad as Legion or maybe stole his ability when he got self-destructed or something...) 'Scuse. Had a Balseraph grab the keyboard there. The Game has been notified. Anyway, Shedim/Shedite, though even Derek got it wrong, _does_ have a singular and plural -- and when they get misused, I start twitching because IN plurals are a black art, and to think in them, I have to make sure I don't have too much of an influx of the _wrong_ versions, or I'll start using the wrong versions. And that would be dissonant. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 12:48:18 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Stereotypes (Re: Impudite Resonance?) At 9:40 AM -0500 11/19/99, Earl Wajenberg wrote: >Leath Sheales wrote: > >> Honestly, how many players do you have that like to play >> stereotypical characters? You may have a lot, but the groups I >> have seen always want their characters to be something a little >> different. > >Amen. Makes one wonder why game designers bother to develop >character classes / archetypes / templates at all. Except that >it gives players something to play AGAINST. >In fact, it is my general role-playing experience that players >barely get into a game setting before they want to push its >envelope. What about after you've played against stereotype for a while? I went against stereotype with a Renegade first, but then started seeing the interesting bits about more "normal" types. Malakite of Fire, say. (If only I got to _play_ more!) Lilim of Lust (redeeming features? You mean these two features on the chest here, right?). Lately, a nice, straightforward Impudite of Vapula is appealing from time to time... Yeah, I'd probably still want the character to stand out in _some_ way, but I suppose that once I've become more comfortable with the setting, seeing the more subtle ways of standing out got easier. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:01:46 -0800 From: Steven Feldon Subject: RE: IN> Janus' Foil The INcyclopedia only lists data from books that have arrived in my part of the country, and then done the requisite six months waiting on the Big Stack Of Book To Enter. I've never seen the GMG in person, so as far as the INcyclopedia is concerned, it doesn't exist yet. (I never tried to do anything with playtest materials, both because that would violate the spirit of my Pyramid subscription and because the material changes too darn much.) I've gotten some volunteers (hi, noble and wonderful volunteers! *wave*) and things should speed up. . . someday soon. :) steve - -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth McCoy [mailto:emccoy@nh.ultranet.com] Sent: Friday, November 19, 1999 9:06 AM To: in_nomine-l@lists.io.com Subject: Re: IN> Janus' Foil At 12:20 PM -0700 11/18/99, EDG wrote: >How is it "obvious" that Beelzebub died? The only reference /I/ can find >to him is in the IPG, where it lists him as a Famous Djinn (I ignored this >for purposes of Christopher), and the INcyclopedia lists him among the >living Superiors. It does? It shouldn't. In the GMG, it says that he was toasted by Uriel in 455 AD. - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 14:05:01 -0500 From: Earl Wajenberg Subject: Re: Adventures (was IN> How and Why Laurence Became the General of the Host) John Karakash wrote: > "Whaddya mean my Role is 'That stupid jerk who > lives at the end of the hallway who is up at all hours > and has really weird friends'?" Humiliating, but great Symphonic cover. Earl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 14:26:33 -0500 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> Bright Bands Earl Wajenberg wrote: > Lilite? Can I put in a bid for "one Lilite" instead of "one Lilim"? > I've been twitching about that one for a long time now. This one had gone around AND around long ago. Canon got set for this one and it's in bunches of books and is not subject to change. One lilim, two lilim, three lilim, etc! (Ditto for geases vs. geasa) - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 14:31:24 -0500 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> Re: Adventures neel@cswv.com wrote: > For example: LA is supposed to be a city so thoroughly controlled by > demons that they can successfully demand that any angel that enters > must show up and pay homage to the demons. Yet no credible mechanism > for enforcing this demand is given beyond a mention of three low-level > demons watching LAX. Leaving aside the question of how to identify > celestials, or even how three demons can monitor a hundred thousand > passengers a day, there's no mention of what to do when characters > drive into the city. The actual answer to this, IMO, is that it's a hostage situation. The angels of LA are well-known and tracked. Any incursions into there would be an astoundingly major play in the Game and would probably mean the deat of all resident angels. Plus all the demon princes have tethers and can put their boys on the front lines in no time at all. Okay, maybe this isn't the best solution, but it IS plausible. The demons are basically saying, "we've got all the strength here... come around and we'll use it to keep this city in line." Heaven has decided that it doesn't want to get into a major war over LA (at this time) so angels are circumspect. - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 14:41:44 -0500 From: John Karakash Subject: Re: IN> Shedite/Kyrio question Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > > At 10:01 AM -0500 11/18/99, John Karakash wrote: > > > > The truly brain-dead are 'gone' and generate > >no essence, can't be resonated (except as a just a > >body) for information, etc. > > I'm not so sure about this -- I'd be more inclined to treat them > in similiar ways to a celestial Remnant. If they are really and > truly GONE, no soul home, etc., then Perception-based resonances > will naturally not work on them. But they'd still generate Essence. Argh, no! Let's NOT have soulless bodies generating essence. Essence goes with the soul. If no-one is home, there's no essence. The undead have the scraps of their souls bound into their corporeal form... but at least the souls are still present. Please reconsider this! [Imagines rooms full of brain-dead, soulless bodies generating essence. Technically, it's not even something that Heaven can get mad about because the souls are gone. And what about the soul? Does it ALSO generate Essence? Could a very unlucky Saint, for example, end up with a bunch of useless, brain-dead vessels, all generating essence, while he does so as well?] > > Shedim might well not be able to _corrupt_ them, either -- no soul > is there. It's just the body. (Shedim of Malphas and the Game would > probably be able to possess them just fine, though?) If they can't > corrupt the host, they start getting dissonant. Also, if the mind > is GONE, there will be no memories or personality for the Shedite > to dig through. Exactly (re memories, personality). > Hm. For that matter, if there's enough corporeal damage, it's possible > that even a Shedite couldn't animate the thing. I agree. > > >of possession are designed to take over _functional_ > >hosts. Ones so badly damaged that the mortal > >occupants are gone are like ones that are damaged > >so much that the heart stops working. If you get > >an odd situation where the body is fine (for > >example the soul is trapped elsewhere), then they > >would probably work. > > > > I might just be inclined to say, "It's the GM's option about whether > the body is too badly damaged to possess, and what bad effects it might > have." There are too many kinds of brain-damage to make sweeping > statements with real accuracy of what's likely to happen. Heh. I can buy this. - -- +============================================= + John Karakash - geek, writer, cook + Code mangler for EMC CLARiiON + mib2300 +============================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 12:52:25 -0700 From: Tim Groth Subject: Re: IN> Stereotypes (Re: Impudite Resonance?) >Yeah, I'd probably still want the character to stand out in _some_ way, >but I suppose that once I've become more comfortable with the setting, >seeing the more subtle ways of standing out got easier. Exactly! A celestials basic nature is the intersection of choir/band with their Superiors Word, two huge filters through which they experience everything. Sure it has lots of room to work in, but your never ever ever going to see a combat oriented Seraph of Novalis (or many other combat oriented servants of Flowers). It just won't happen. On a related note since PCs are favored servitors they might be designed a little off the beaten path, maybe their Superior was feeling creative or maybe they had a special duty (or even a Word) in mind for their new Servitor. It can be fun to play the custom model. Its also fun to play the schmoe demon who was a better schmoe demon than those fledged at the same time. They got themselves earth side by playing up their natural strengths and now they have time to grow and develop. Celestials have limited room for deviation, unless they want dissonance. If you want to go buck wild be a mortal. Even ethereals are limited in some respects depending on what kind of ethereal they are. Timothy, Angel of Rambling If you have a hankering for waffles or chicken i know the place for you: http://d106-h032.rh.rit.edu/~tim/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 15:07:14 -0500 From: Ehrbar Subject: Re: IN> Bright Shedim Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:19:47 -0500 From: neel@cswv.com > Hey, no one ever said serving God was *easy*. It would be an interesting type of character to have in a campaign, and more power to you if you want one. OTOH, it just seems like a lot of effort to redeem a demon who will then either yo-yo or collapse into a puddle of Discord inside of two months, which is why I figured that they'd normally be immediately stripped down to a Reliever. Then you could still use his knowledge of the Diabolicals, you'd still have a candidate suitable for sending to Earth, and maybe he could fledge as a Kyrio someday. Also, there's the question as to whether a celestial being could exist even temporarily while its fundamental nature is at war with itself. You think Gabriel is driven nuts by Belial sharing her Word, imagine how insane a Bright Shedite might be... So, yeah, I thought about them, but I wasn't satisfied with that type either, personally. So I almost included a version of Bright Shedim that had them only posess uncorruptable hosts, or that had them be issued vessels. I wasn't satisfied with those Bright Shedim, either. And, of course, a Bright Shedite could just never go to Earth and thus never have to corrupt anybody, spending all their time in Heaven or the Marches. So, that's five ways (reversed dissonance, conflicting dissonance, uncorruptable hosts, vessels, never go to Earth) that you can do a Bright Shedite. I just wasn't satisfied with any of them. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 15:13:41 -0600 From: "Eeyore" Subject: Re: IN> Bright Shedim >OTOH, it just seems like a lot of effort to redeem a demon who will >then either yo-yo or collapse into a puddle of Discord inside of two >months, which is why I figured that they'd normally be immediately >stripped down to a Reliever. Then you could still use his knowledge >of the Diabolicals, you'd still have a candidate suitable for sending >to Earth, and maybe he could fledge as a Kyrio someday. The Bright Shedim that Neel wrote up haven't been Redeemed. They have had an additional dissonance condition imposed, but this was done specifically because the Shedite didn't want to risk the Redemption process. From which springs the idea of an emergency Trauma team initiating Redemption when things go critical. Also, you can not force-strip someone down to a Reliever (or an Imp or Gremlin, for that matter). Once you one has fledged to being an angel or demon, they will remain such no matter how far they are reduced. It's a one-way passage. J. Michael Neal ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 15:17:52 -0600 From: "Eeyore" Subject: Re: IN> Re: Adventures > The actual answer to this, IMO, is that it's >a hostage situation. The angels of LA are well-known >and tracked. Any incursions into there would be an >astoundingly major play in the Game and would probably >mean the deat of all resident angels. Plus all the >demon princes have tethers and can put their boys on >the front lines in no time at all. > Okay, maybe this isn't the best solution, >but it IS plausible. The demons are basically saying, >"we've got all the strength here... come around and >we'll use it to keep this city in line." Heaven has >decided that it doesn't want to get into a major war >over LA (at this time) so angels are circumspect. Which would all be fine if the title adventure didn't rely on their being *no* other angels in the city that the gruesome twosome doesn't know about. Blandine has no inconspicuous Menunite wandering around with orders to keep his head down. Dominic has no one keeping an eye on things because he thinks it's a bad idea for these angels to be unsupervised in a demonic city. No Windy has blown through just because it's the thing to do. For the scenario to work, LA pretty much has to be tightly sealed up, and this isn't really possible. J. Michael Neal ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 13:23:42 PST From: "Jo Hart" Subject: Re: IN> Bright Shedim So how about a Shedite that knows it has to corrupt its host a bit each day, but tries to make up for it by having the host do something especially /worthy/ as well? jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 16:22:26 -0400 From: Douglas Muir Subject: re: IN> One Tough Taker >This is an elegant bit of character creation. Thank you kindly. >If you don't mind, I'd >like to borrow him and spring him on an annoying Malakite of the Sword >in my game (tee hee). Heh heh. A Sword, hm? "The most honorable fighters of all". Mmmm... I see potential here. Malakim of Laurence get a bonus to their resonance roll, yes? So... have your Swordie come through Marco's neighborhood. He might be looking into a violent act instigated by Marco, or following a Soldier or Renegade who's staying at Marco's flop... whatever. The Impudite is so plugged into the neighborhood that he'll quickly pick up on any stranger, and his Paranoid discord will ensure that the Sword will be watched and followed. Now, if your Mal uses resonance regularly, you could have him notice that a lot of people in this neighborhood seem to be doing bad stuff. Careful examination will show that they're not bad _people_, just that they've been committing an unusual lot of ignoble and wicked _acts_. Most player will guess "demon" pretty quickly, though they're more likely to think Shed or Balseraph or even Lilim before an Impudite. If you really want to mess with the Mal, let him trace the trouble to Marco...let him guess that it's an Impudite ("Oh... it's just an Impudite... no problem") and then set up an honorable single combat type situation. Marco's tough enough that he can probably win singlehanded; if not, he won't hesitate to call in some human friends to help. If he wins... well, he's a young demon, and whipping a Mal is a *huge* coup. I imagine him incapacitating the angel, then (slowly) kicking him to death. "Not so cool now, are we..." (KICK) "...Mr. 'I'm on a mission from God' hot-stuff angel..." (KICK, STOMP) "...well, when you get back to Heaven..." (KICK) "...you can tell them *Marco* sent you home!" (KICK STOMP KICK FREE WEIGHT FREE WEIGHT FREE WEIGHT pause KICK pause sponge mop). I would give the angel one slim chance of survival if things reach this point: make a Will roll for Marco, subtracting his Paranoid discord (9-2 = 7). If he fails it, he'll incapacitate the Mal but try to keep it alive for a while for interrogation: "Who sent you? I know you didn't come alone! Was it Krennerdor? He's secretly working for Saminga, isn't he? And what do you know about the girl in blue?" Give the angel a fast-talk roll to stay alive for a while, and he might be able to escape. But otherwise... >Imagine his Choirmates' response when he shows up >in Heaven sans Vessel and has to explain what happened... [snip] >Choirmate: BWAHAHAHAHA! Heh heh heh. And he won't even get much sympathy from his Superior; choosing single combat with a demon of unknown strength may be honorable, but it's also kinda dumb. Fun followup: many PCs will respond to this sort of defeat by gathering some friends and coming back for a rematch. You *could* have Marco still be there, waiting with some reinforcements of his own (a couple of 10-Force Cals, say). OTOH, he just might have closed up the gym and disappeared... after first leaving a description of the angel with the neighborhood. "Hey! That's the guy that beat up Marco!" "Get 'im!" The local mortals probably won't be able to hurt the angels, but this sort of thing is annoying and embarrassing. And, of course, it lets you bring Marco back a bit later, with a promotion, a Distinction, and an extra Force or two, to mess with the PCs again... Doug M. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 16:46:39 -0500 From: Elizabeth McCoy Subject: IN> Remnants and Braindead Humans (Re: Shedite/Kyrio question) At 2:41 PM -0500 11/19/99, John Karakash wrote: >Elizabeth McCoy wrote: > Argh, no! Let's NOT have soulless bodies generating >essence. Remnants do! And they're _really_ soulless, come right down to it. (Mind, to keep the soul/body thing fuzzy, I'd probably say that if the body were still "alive," whether it was "soulless" or not, the soul is... nowhere to be found. Not Heaven, not Hell. Limbo? Yeah, like you'd be able to tell.) - --emccoy@nh.ultranet.com // arcangel@io.com In Nomine Line Editor GURPS, Roleplayers, In Nomine stuff; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/ ------------------------------ End of in_nomine-digest V1 #1423 ******************************** The material here is (C) 1999 Steve Jackson Games, Incorporated. All rights reserved.